EV Digest 6076
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) e-meter RS232 Info Sources
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: e-meter RS232 Info Sources
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Chinese controllers
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Chinese controllers
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: e-meter RS232 Info Sources
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: inexpensive, homebuilt, Contactor Controller...
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Disabling Civic Power Steering Attn: Jim Schinnerer
by "Christie Cooksey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: brrr cold zero F today
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Sunrise: Midnight
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: I can build your controller
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) RE: e-meter RS232 Info Sources
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: e-meter RS232 Info Sources
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Emeter wierdness
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: I can build your controller, off topic
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Sunrise: Midnight
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: [uselectricar] Emeter wierdness
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) E-bay finds - ending today
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: E-bay finds - ending today
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: Sunrise: Midnight
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: E-bay finds - ending today
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Can anyone point me to any documentation, informed members or sources
related to the e-meter RS232 interface and its capabilities/ data ?
Thanks,
Mark Dutko
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark, you might want to check out Tim Nolan's Homepower article on
data logging with the E-Meter at:
http://www.timnolan.com/hparticle/Nolan74.pdf
His setup is low voltage, for EVs you will need an opto-isolator.
I have been data logging on my Civic off an on for awhile. I use a
really old laptop I picked up for $5. It doesn't take much of a
computer to handle this.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
At 07:49 PM 10/28/2006, you wrote:
Can anyone point me to any documentation, informed members or sources
related to the e-meter RS232 interface and its capabilities/ data ?
Thanks,
Mark Dutko
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Recently, as part of my business interests I've been looking at, and talking
to, a lot of Chinese companies that make electric cars. I've found it
interesting that most of them use Curtis controllers instead of a Chinese
brand. It didn't occur to me until now, but is Curtis building their
controllers in China? Sorry if this has been covered earlier, but I just got
back from traveling, and started reading the list again.
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Arthur W. Matteson wrote:
I was comparing using a half-bridge module with a single switch, not
comparing modules with discretes. You *completely* missed my point;
*sigh*.
I guess I did miss your point. In fact, I'm still missing it!
The stray inductance applies because with a single switch, you can't
clamp the Vce within the same module. That's the whole point of
those capacitors that bolt right across the terminals.
In a hard switched converter, you need to minimize the loop through the
capacitor, transistor, and diode. The longer this loop, the greater its
inductance, and the worse the voltage spike when the switch turns off.
But, you don't *need* a module to minimize this length; it just makes it
easier. Otmar has done it with discrete capacitors, transistors, and
diodes in his Zillas, and probably has a lower inductance than you can
get with any module.
I hate modules. I hate IGBTs. I would never use the current-quality
modules in my own car, and IGBTs only reluctantly. But modules are
convenient, isolated, and easy to build with when someone else is paying
for them.
Well, I don't feel that drastically about it. Modules have their place.
If you're paying someone to parallel lots of little parts for you, it
doesn't take long before modules are actually cheaper.
The nice thing about MOSFETs: they're avalanche-rated.
That's nice, but a minor point. Your circuit should never depend on it.
I know; there are lots of reasons why you don't use IGBTs for
synchronous rectifiers; voltage drop is just the most obvious one.
MOSFETs happen to make pretty good synchronous rectifiers.
That's like me giving you a car without an engine, and me telling
you it won't run because it's out of gas.
Here I'm losing you.
The buck converter circuit needs a diode. The important specs for this
diode are its forward voltage drop, it reverse voltage breakdown, and
its turnon/turnoff speed.
A conventional "fast" silicon diode can acceptably meet all three.
An SCR can work, but is generally inferior to normal diodes (higher
voltage drop, and slower switching). They are sometimes used anyway,
because they can be switched on/off.
A schottky diode has less forward voltage drop, and is very fast; but is
limited to 30-100v max.
A bipolar transistor can have even less drop than a schottky, but has an
even lower reverse breakdown (5v to 30v max).
A MOSFET can meet all three requirements, and in fact can even be better
than a fast silicon diode (lower drop, higher voltage, and faster).
Thus, it is the most popular part to use to replace a diode.
An IGBT is inferior on all counts; higher forward voltage drop, slower
switching speed, and lower reverse voltage breakdown (5v to 20v). Thus,
it doesn't make sense to use them for diodes.
I wasn't trying to imply that an IGBT's forward voltage drop is the
*only* reason for not using them as diodes. It's just that when you are
looking at replacing a conventional freewheel diode with its 1v drop,
you are only going to consider parts with a *lower* drop, and the IGBT
fails in this first test.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I did purchase a curtis 1205 knockoff made in china.
It says cleveland manufacturing company. It was a
non-working model. However, it is not repairable.
--- bortel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Recently, as part of my business interests I've been
> looking at, and talking
> to, a lot of Chinese companies that make electric
> cars. I've found it
> interesting that most of them use Curtis controllers
> instead of a Chinese
> brand. It didn't occur to me until now, but is
> Curtis building their
> controllers in China? Sorry if this has been covered
> earlier, but I just got
> back from traveling, and started reading the list
> again.
> Dan
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on the New
Yahoo.com
(http://www.yahoo.com/preview)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark and all,
Can anyone point me to any documentation, informed members or sources
related to the e-meter RS232 interface and its capabilities/ data ?
Here's the basics (page 49 of the manual for RS-232 info.):
http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/72/docserve.asp
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Professional grade electric vehicle parts and resources
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > I was comparing using a half-bridge module with a single switch, not
> > comparing modules with discretes. You *completely* missed my point;
> > *sigh*.
>
> I guess I did miss your point. In fact, I'm still missing it!
Example One is the CM600HA-12H. It contains one IGBT and one
antiparallel diode. Example Two is the CM400DU-12NFH. It contains two
IGBTs and two antiparallel diodes. (Ignore the rating differences and
switching speeds for the purpose of discussion; assume they're equal.)
Technically, one could use Example One plus an external diode block to
build a DC-EV controller. This is good because it doesn't waste any
parts. This is bad because it probably won't work above 300V. Why?
The Vce clamping path length is too long (perhaps even longer than if
discretes were used).
I propose using Example Two because I can put a capacitor right across
the E2 and C1 terminals. This is good because it minimizes the length
of the high-frequency Vce clamping path. This circuit will work to
perhaps as much as 500V. People may have been suspicious of why I would
want to "waste parts" this way; I'm totally shorting out the lower side
gate drive.
> > The nice thing about MOSFETs: they're avalanche-rated.
>
> That's nice, but a minor point. Your circuit should never depend on it.
You should never pass current through a MOSFET either. Because that
could cause it to heat up. And if it heats up too much, it'll explode.
And Zener diodes should never be used, because they could be damaged.
Like Zener diodes, MOSFET avalanche failure is due to heat.
International Rectifier provides a 17-page document to help users design
unclamped flyback circuits and other avalanche-dependent topologies:
http://www.irf.com/technical-info/appnotes/an-1005.pdf
This is from the same people who performed free acoustic microscope
analysis (C-SAM), X-ray imaging, and chemical decapsulation on
burned-out parts I sent them (and made me two reports). They know how
parts fail, and they want to prevent it. Obviously they wouldn't write
an application note saying how to take advantage of the avalanche rating
if it'd make their parts seem unreliable from burning out all of the
time.
I'm currently attempting to build a 450V, 100kW AC controller from 75V
MOSFETs. It will be immersed in transformer oil to increase the PCB
traces' current rating (try it in water, it's neat).
> I wasn't trying to imply that an IGBT's forward voltage drop is the
> *only* reason for not using them as diodes. It's just that when you are
> looking at replacing a conventional freewheel diode with its 1v drop,
> you are only going to consider parts with a *lower* drop, and the IGBT
> fails in this first test.
I suppose the term "forward voltage" is somewhat misleading in comparing
parts. Even though this conduction might be due to the same effect (or
might not), it doesn't give a novice a good idea of how these parts
function. IGBTs can stand a high forward voltage but diodes can stand a
high reverse voltage. Kind of confusing.
I think the best answer to the original confusion of comparing an IGBT
with a MOSFET is: MOSFETs conduct in two quadrants of V and I, so they
can "dual" as diodes. IGBT's can't "dual" as diodes. Forward voltage
doesn't have too much to do with it, in my opinion.
- Arthur
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out the controller on this page:
http://www.poormansev.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I need to know if it's possible to disable the steering on a Capri (before I
actually buy one as a donor car).
And if Jim or anyone else can let me know what's involved I'd be eternally
grateful.
Cheers
Christie :0)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
we haven't quite hit 0*F yet here in Anchorage. So far 18*F is our low. I
switched both halves of my ceramic element separately
and up until now I've been running only 1/2. At full fan it pulls 8A @ 199V
~1600 W. Until now this has brought cabin temp up to
comfy in about 3-5 minutes in 32*F outside temps. After that it starts getting
pretty warm unless I turn the fan down a bit.
Lately the 18*F to 20*F mornings I've been running the full element which pulls
11.6A @ 199V ~2300W. While the 1/2 element would
now take 7-8 minutes to come up to comfy (60*-70* F inside the cab) the full
element brings it to that in 2-3 minutes. When I was
just running 1/2 element I was starting to worry that even with both It would
take too long at 0*F outside. But now after running
the full element at 20*F outside I think it'll be good down to at least 0*F, it
just might take a few more minutes. Once it starts
getting that cold here I may wind up putting in a second element, but I'm
optimistic it will be OK. The carpet on on the floor has
a real thick insulation matt that runs 3/4 way up the firewall and about half
way back under the seat. I may do like you mentioned
and line my whole floor with asbestos insulation :-O, (kidding) but something
like a pressed fiberglass or glass wool board should
be OK to run underneath all the carpet from the firewall, under the seat and up
the back wall in the cabin. The inside of my truck
really does not have that much volume. Its a good thing I'm not 5'-10" or it
might get kinda cramped inside. I'm fairly confident
the single element will keep my cab warm this winter. Although, with snow and
ice the speeds I'll be driving on my 7 mile commute
will only be around 35mph (maybe 40). If I remember right you said you're now
hitting the highway for the trip into town. Can you
tell if you have any air infiltration through the firewall or your door seals.
I've gone through an plugged all the holes and
fixed all the seals to get rid of the air coming in through the firewall. That
seems to make a significant difference as the
temperatures drop.
more later, I have the kid watch tonight.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/756
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of mike golub
> Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 2:50 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: brrr cold zero F today
>
>
> Thanks Lee. I'm about to put the second heater in
> today. In Fairbanks, Alaska we can get -40F, however
> in last few years those days only occured a few times.
> But we do get lots of -20F.
> Yesterday, driving around in 0F, the 75% element was
> able to defog the front windshield, but my feet were
> cold. I agree that the air it was making wasn't warm,
> but it was better than the outside air.
>
> I was going to try some foam under my feet to see if
> it helps. I may still have some holes from the engine
> compartment.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is midnight; the start of a new day. Sunrise is a long way off, but
it is coming!
Bob Rice and I have moved the Sunrise body and chassis to Minnesota,
where the process of turning it into a kit car has begun. This is the
first of what I hope will be many reports on our progress.
The Solectria Sunrise is an amazingly EV that has delivered tremendous
range even on ordinary batteries. It is roomy, lightweight, and strong
enough to have successfully passed NHTSA crash testing. But it is also
an extremely complex, expensive vehicle to build. Our first challenge is
to modify it to be affordable, and simple enough to be built by people
of average skill, while keeping as much as possible of the superb design
the same.
The Solectria Sunrise was also highly optimized for efficiency.
Accelleration, handling, and many "creature comforts" were compromised
to maximize range. This is not a good strategy for the typical buyer,
who prefers a car that excels in many areas. So our second challenge is
to improve and update the design, to make it more appealing to a wider
market.
Here is a rough description of our design as it is evolving:
- Same all-composite chassis and body, but rely more on conventional
fiberglass than on carbon fiber.
- Replace the light-but-weak Geo Metro McPherson strut front suspension
with Mustang II A-arm suspension, which is widely available in the
kit car market. It is stronger, more versatile, and offers better
handling.
- Replace the weak Dodge Neon rear suspension with fully independent
A-arm rear suspension, also from the kit car market. It provides
inboard disk brakes, is considerably stronger, and allows far
better handling.
- Change to rear wheel drive. Essentially all high performance sports
cars and sedans are rear wheel drive. It is much easier to get strong
rear differentials in any desired ratio, enabling extremely fast
accelleration.
- A large, quick-change battery pack. The central tunnel is enlarged
slightly, to 124"l x 12"h x 14.5"w to allow any battery type up to 24
6v T-145's. The pack slides out the front, complete with bumper and
front "clip".
- Rather than a single one-piece nonrepairable body, the front and
rear are replaceable "clips" to make crash testing and repairs
easier.
- The design will be modular (like a modern PC), so that builders can
use a wide range of motors, controllers, and batteries. You can build
it for low cost or luxury, efficiency or performance, AC or DC,
lead-acids or lithiums, etc.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Osmo
If you do buy from the United States you can be assured there are laws here
to protect the environment. Also we do not have prison labor workers.
>From small manufacturers you will also find a lot of pride in the product
they make. I think this applies to many places around the world.
I would rather buy from countries other than China and every year it is
getting harder not to. At least here in the United States.
Don
In a message dated 10/28/2006 2:05:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
David Roden kirjoitti 27.10.2006 kello 18.49:
> Josh, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since (I think) you're
> a newbie
> here, but how about a little concern for guys like Rich and Otmar, our
>
> I don't want a fight, and I don't want to seem ungrateful, but I
> really wish
> you would take your Chinese manufacturing connections somewhere
> else and use
> them for something else.
I´m a little surprised that the List Assistant Administrator
wants to restrict the discussion to a certain geographical area. As
far as I know the list is open to all. So there are many non-
americans on this list. Should we all get our ev-parts from Rich and
Otmar?
I wonder if there are any chinese members on this list?
Osmo Sarin
Finland
Europe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
MARK DUTKO wrote:
> Can anyone point me to any documentation, informed members or
> sources related to the e-meter RS232 interface and its
> capabilities/ data ?
Page 49 of the E-Meter/Link10 manual hase everything you need to know:
<http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/97/p/docs/pt/8/product.asp>
In short, the serial comms is 9600,8,N,1 and outputs a string of comma
separated values at one second intervals. You can't talk to the meter.
The RS232 signals are referenced to the traction pack negative, so you
should use a opto isolator between the E-Meter and whatever you are
using to log data.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes- It does- Thanks!
On Oct 28, 2006, at 10:53 PM, Roger Stockton wrote:
MARK DUTKO wrote:
Can anyone point me to any documentation, informed members or
sources related to the e-meter RS232 interface and its
capabilities/ data ?
Page 49 of the E-Meter/Link10 manual hase everything you need to know:
<http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/97/p/docs/pt/8/product.asp>
In short, the serial comms is 9600,8,N,1 and outputs a string of comma
separated values at one second intervals. You can't talk to the
meter.
The RS232 signals are referenced to the traction pack negative, so you
should use a opto isolator between the E-Meter and whatever you are
using to log data.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Speaking of Emeters. I don't remember my meter doing this before. When
the truck is off the emeter shows about +.5 or +.6 amps. So when it
sits for a while the Ah's merrily count upward. Any ideas?
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick
I have to disagree with your statement below. You have to go back to around
1900 in the United States to find working conditions that exist today in some
parts of China. China shows no concern for the environment or people.
It is their country and it is all their fault.
Don
In a message dated 10/28/2006 2:02:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
David, I'm not going to stick up for human rights abuses or sweatshop labor
but I do not feel the problem is not all the fault of the Chinese.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds awesome! "...better handling..."; "...rear wheel drive...";
"...extremely fast acceleration...".
A suggestion: Probably the most successful kit car company is Factory Five
http://www.factoryfive.com . They use a single donor car for everything (A 5.0
Mustang). This greatly reduces cost, and time spent scrounging parts. There are
lots of cheap performance parts. There is a body of enthusiasts for tuning
knowledge. You could go with the lighter solid axle, and those that want to pay
more can put in IRS.
Even if not a Mustang, a single donor makes things like door locks, seats,
pedals, steering, etc., much easier to get.
It'll be tough to find a wrecked or running Mustang II anymore, and a custom
suspension will be expensive.
----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV list <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:35:48 PM
Subject: Sunrise: Midnight
It is midnight; the start of a new day. Sunrise is a long way off, but
it is coming!
Bob Rice and I have moved the Sunrise body and chassis to Minnesota,
where the process of turning it into a kit car has begun. This is the
first of what I hope will be many reports on our progress.
The Solectria Sunrise is an amazingly EV that has delivered tremendous
range even on ordinary batteries. It is roomy, lightweight, and strong
enough to have successfully passed NHTSA crash testing. But it is also
an extremely complex, expensive vehicle to build. Our first challenge is
to modify it to be affordable, and simple enough to be built by people
of average skill, while keeping as much as possible of the superb design
the same.
The Solectria Sunrise was also highly optimized for efficiency.
Accelleration, handling, and many "creature comforts" were compromised
to maximize range. This is not a good strategy for the typical buyer,
who prefers a car that excels in many areas. So our second challenge is
to improve and update the design, to make it more appealing to a wider
market.
Here is a rough description of our design as it is evolving:
- Same all-composite chassis and body, but rely more on conventional
fiberglass than on carbon fiber.
- Replace the light-but-weak Geo Metro McPherson strut front suspension
with Mustang II A-arm suspension, which is widely available in the
kit car market. It is stronger, more versatile, and offers better
handling.
- Replace the weak Dodge Neon rear suspension with fully independent
A-arm rear suspension, also from the kit car market. It provides
inboard disk brakes, is considerably stronger, and allows far
better handling.
- Change to rear wheel drive. Essentially all high performance sports
cars and sedans are rear wheel drive. It is much easier to get strong
rear differentials in any desired ratio, enabling extremely fast
accelleration.
- A large, quick-change battery pack. The central tunnel is enlarged
slightly, to 124"l x 12"h x 14.5"w to allow any battery type up to 24
6v T-145's. The pack slides out the front, complete with bumper and
front "clip".
- Rather than a single one-piece nonrepairable body, the front and
rear are replaceable "clips" to make crash testing and repairs
easier.
- The design will be modular (like a modern PC), so that builders can
use a wide range of motors, controllers, and batteries. You can build
it for low cost or luxury, efficiency or performance, AC or DC,
lead-acids or lithiums, etc.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
This means that the offset in your meter has become
larger than the values that it normally sees but ignores.
Either it has drifted too much, or the cables connecting
to the shunt have a bit of a galvanic reaction and with
usually 50 mV full scale, you only need tenths of millivolts
to get the Emeter to start counting....
You may want to check your cabling, if you have a
sensitive voltmeter you could check directly on the shunt
and then the cabling near the shunt and near the emeter
to see if it picks up anything in transitioning between.
different materials.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
<http://www.cvandewater.com/>
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com <http://www.proxim.com/>
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:14 PM
To: EVDL; US Electricar
Subject: [uselectricar] Emeter wierdness
Speaking of Emeters. I don't remember my meter doing this before. When
the truck is off the emeter shows about +.5 or +.6 amps. So when it
sits for a while the Ah's merrily count upward. Any ideas?
Mike
__._,_.___
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OTIS ELECTRIC CAR Item number: 220041338543
--->>> Currently at $199 with less than a day to go !!!
I've got to think there are more than $200 in parts on that thing if you
happen to be in WA and want to dismantle it ...
Other:
BIG DC FORKLIFT MOTOR Item number: 220040405150
EV-200 FORKLIFT CONTROL PANEL 36 volts Item number: 150052089794
EV-100 PANELA LIKE NEW 36volts Item number: 150052090783
LNIB PERM 132 High Performance Electric Motor up to 34 HP at 72v. Item
number: 180042981821
Steve
---------------------------------
Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
** Reply to message from Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Sat, 28 Oct 2006
10:30:46 -0500
> There was a discussion on this a year or two ago on the EV list, and I
> posted some schematics on how to do it. Basically, you can wire it so
> the controller never "sees" more than 72v, yet have a 144v pack. It uses
> contactors to rearrange the circuit so the controller takes you from
> 0-72v, then you switch the contactors, and the controller takes you from
> 72-144v.
Could you please post that diagram again for us newbies?
Dale Curren
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 10/29/2006 4:13:58 AM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Other:
BIG DC FORKLIFT MOTOR Item number: 220040405150
EV-200 FORKLIFT CONTROL PANEL 36 volts Item number: 150052089794
EV-100 PANELA LIKE NEW 36volts Item number: 150052090783
LNIB PERM 132 High Performance Electric Motor up to 34 HP at 72v. Item
number: 180042981821
Just curious, would these "26 volt" forklift motors be appropriate for for
an EV conversion to a small car (like a VW bug or Rabbit)
Thanks
Matt Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee
If you're thinking of ramping up to production levels, have you started a list
of possible
regional dealers? The East Coast has been somewhat under represented. I'm sure
Bob has brought
this up already, but I think Connecticut would make an excellent location for a
dealership. We
could offer the full size Sunrise II (name?) and Jerry's commuter car. Ship us
the rolling
chassis, we build it to buyers spec and train the user to plug in an extension
cord. Local sales,
service, etc. etc.
Bob, when are you back in town? I'm 90% of the way to my first EV grin, but I
won't have the range
to make it to Killingly right away. But soon....
Dave Cover
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It is midnight; the start of a new day. Sunrise is a long way off, but
> it is coming!
>
> Bob Rice and I have moved the Sunrise body and chassis to Minnesota,
> where the process of turning it into a kit car has begun. This is the
> first of what I hope will be many reports on our progress.
>
> The Solectria Sunrise is an amazingly EV that has delivered tremendous
> range even on ordinary batteries. It is roomy, lightweight, and strong
> enough to have successfully passed NHTSA crash testing. But it is also
> an extremely complex, expensive vehicle to build. Our first challenge is
> to modify it to be affordable, and simple enough to be built by people
> of average skill, while keeping as much as possible of the superb design
> the same.
>
> The Solectria Sunrise was also highly optimized for efficiency.
> Accelleration, handling, and many "creature comforts" were compromised
> to maximize range. This is not a good strategy for the typical buyer,
> who prefers a car that excels in many areas. So our second challenge is
> to improve and update the design, to make it more appealing to a wider
> market.
>
> Here is a rough description of our design as it is evolving:
>
> - Same all-composite chassis and body, but rely more on conventional
> fiberglass than on carbon fiber.
> - Replace the light-but-weak Geo Metro McPherson strut front suspension
> with Mustang II A-arm suspension, which is widely available in the
> kit car market. It is stronger, more versatile, and offers better
> handling.
> - Replace the weak Dodge Neon rear suspension with fully independent
> A-arm rear suspension, also from the kit car market. It provides
> inboard disk brakes, is considerably stronger, and allows far
> better handling.
> - Change to rear wheel drive. Essentially all high performance sports
> cars and sedans are rear wheel drive. It is much easier to get strong
> rear differentials in any desired ratio, enabling extremely fast
> accelleration.
> - A large, quick-change battery pack. The central tunnel is enlarged
> slightly, to 124"l x 12"h x 14.5"w to allow any battery type up to 24
> 6v T-145's. The pack slides out the front, complete with bumper and
> front "clip".
> - Rather than a single one-piece nonrepairable body, the front and
> rear are replaceable "clips" to make crash testing and repairs
> easier.
> - The design will be modular (like a modern PC), so that builders can
> use a wide range of motors, controllers, and batteries. You can build
> it for low cost or luxury, efficiency or performance, AC or DC,
> lead-acids or lithiums, etc.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 10/29/2006 7:20:01 AM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Just curious, would these "26 volt" forklift motors be appropriate for for
an EV conversion to a small car (like a VW bug or Rabbit)
Thanks
Matt Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
OPPS....
Meant "36 volt motors"
Thanks
Matt Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
BMW m/c-Golf Cart trike - 48 volts, 30mph on the flat, 35 mile range
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Having just returned from the Arctic, the subject of EV heaters and
staying warm on c-cold days is very timely!
In response to my first post about my recent Arctic adventure, David
Roden wrote:
It™s been c-c-c-cold, icy, and in a word ˜white™.
So how are those ceramic EV heaters working for you up there? <big grin>
I loved this! Yes David, it would have been a perfect place to test the
warming capability of ceramic heaters, for sure. Their fleet of diesel
powered Chevy pickups are not yet left running all the time as they do
in Winter because the super cold temps have not arrived (each week the
temperature drops about 10 more degrees), so it took forever for them to
warm up! I told everyone who would listen, that if they had Electric
pickups, they could enjoy instant heat :-)
From Mike Golub:
If I add the second element. Do I mount it so the
air goes through both or do I just mount in the same
plane as the other element. I wonder because if I
added a third one I'd run out of space?
From Lee Hart:
If you live in a place that gets very cold (like Minnesota), put the
elements one in front of the other, so one preheats the air by (say)
40 deg.F, and the second one heats it another 40 deg.F.
Though I do not agree with Lee's temperature points, I do agree with Lee
on stacking the elements one atop the other, not side by side. Mount the
second element stacked on top of the other, so that all the cool air
coming into the heater system has to flow through one element to preheat
the air, then immediately through the second element right behind
it...you'll get very hot air this way. I used twin elements in my 120V
pickup 'Red Beastie' and it's heater was killer!
Lee Hart wrote:
The air passing through the element tends to have a certain
temperature rise. The amount depends on the voltage and airflow. You
can get temperature rises on the order of 30-60 deg.F.
I would disagree with Lee's max temp rise of 60 degrees. Here's an
excerpt from my December '97 heater comparison test:
OK...next up...my (144V) Datsun....I used time vs temperature
measurements in this side by side comparison. The comparisons between
these two EVs and their heaters were made on the same chilly 38 degree
morning...turned the heater on with the fan set to low. Within 30
seconds, the needle of the gauge had moved to indicate 70 degrees, and
by the time one minute had elapsed, there was 90 degrees of warm air
flowing from the defroster vents. At two minutes, there was nice, hot,
135 degree air and the interior of the Datsun was becoming very warm.
Going from 38 degrees to 135 degrees is nearly a 100 degree temperature
rise.
Here's more from my heater comparison test:
After realizing that in severely cold areas, a single element EV
heater may not be up to the task, and certainly after having compared
the ceramic heaters to a powerful ICEV heater, I wanted to see how
much heat I could get from a ceramic-based EV heater, and at what kind
of current draw. I have a beefy, 12 volt squirrel cage blower motor
that is about eight inches in diameter...You can feel the wind from
this thing clear across my 24 foot shop! I set it up on the bench with
three different speed settings, to simulate the blower in a modern
vehicle, and ran it off of a power supply. I next, took two ceramic
elements and stacked them, one on top of the other, in a sandwiched
array, between two halves of a venturi/baffle arrangement. The
sandwich was positioned so that it completely covered the air intake
of the monster blower, making a neat, draw-through type heater. Using
10 gauge wires and a heavy duty relay with a capacitor for arc
suppression, I rigged the setup to run off of a stack of 12
fully-charged Optima Yellow Tops in series, at 144 volts. I also had
it configured so that I could use a single element, or both at the
same time. For testing measurements, I again used the meat
thermometer, placed a short distance from the output section of the
blower. I also had a DVM connected to the terminals of the elements to
measure the applied voltage, as well as a digital clamp current meter
on the positive power lead. I made a chart the night before, so that I
could record the test results, and plot the amps, volts, and
ultimately the watts needed, for whatever temperatures I
obtained......The temperature inside the shop, was just shy of 40
degrees.......On the first run, I used only one element, and got very
similar results to what I had recorded from the heater in my Datsun.
The 'low' speed setting on the test blower is comparable to the 'low'
setting in the Datsun (both of which are closer to a medium setting as
found in average vehicles), and a temperature of 130 degrees was
registered. The voltage at the element was 147.6 and the current draw
was at 7.9 amps (1166 watts). The test bench blower when set on
'medium', is more powerful than the 'high' speed setting in the
Datsun, and as a result, the temperature registered at 105 degrees.
The voltage at the element was 147.3 and the current draw was at 7.5
amps (1307 watts). With the test blower set to 'high' (or gale force),
the temperature went to 90 degrees and held. The voltage at the
element was 147.0 and the current draw was at 8.2 amps (1205 watts).
OK now, hold on to your hats, because the results from two elements
are really impressive! I charged the batteries for about fifteen
minutes to bring them back up to where they were at the start of the
single element test, and then proceeded, repeating the previous steps,
but with two elements running this time. With the 'low' speed setting
on the test blower, a temperature of 175 degrees was registered! The
voltage at the element was 145 and the current draw was at 14.1 amps
(2044 watts). On 'medium', the temperature registered at 155 degrees.
The voltage at the element was 144.3 and the current draw was at 15.2
amps (2193 watts). With the test blower set to 'high', the temperature
went to 140 degrees and held. The voltage at the element was 144 and
the current draw was at 16.9 amps (2433 watts).
To see what a slightly slower fan speed would produce, I reduced the
supply to the fan to imitate the 'slow' speed setting found in most
vehicles. At this speed, the temperature climbed to an unbelievable
200 degrees! From about a foot away, it hurt to hold my hand in the
air stream for more than a few seconds. I returned to using the 'high'
fan speed, and closed the overhead shop door. From ten feet away, I
could feel hot air being blasted. In short order, the heater actually
started to warm the whole shop!
---------------------------------------
The original un-excerpted heater comparison post can been read here:
http://www.evsource.com/articles/heater_compare.php
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
