EV Digest 6085
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Well to wheels effiency was aircar
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Car And Driver at PIR...
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) New 70AH, 16 Volt, AGM Battery?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: ceramic fin repair
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: ceramic fin repair
by Randall Prentice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: The air car???
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) : Seasons Greetings; it's Witchcraft!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Series/parallel switch, was: Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Orange Annaconda flexible conduit on special
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: [BULK] Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: New 70AH, 16 Volt, AGM Battery?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: New 70AH, 16 Volt, AGM Battery?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: ceramic fin repair
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This is dangerously close to being off topic but we must be prepared for
comparisons so I would like to chime in here.
We must consider the energy it takes to compress air. most multistage
piston compressors are only 17% effient. There are some special
oilsprayed screw compressors that can get to 25% effient. Other than
that we need to cryogenically liquify air to get higher effiency.
So when I start with 20kwh at the plug and I loose 20% in chargeing, and
15% in putting it to the ground, i have 15.2kwh left. My EV with a 400lb
pack(lets say we use li-ion for fun) at 300wh/mile goes 51 miles.
When you start with 20kwh and loose 75% in compressing the air you have
5kwh left, the motor maybe is 25% effient so you have 1.250 kwh left .
Since the vehicle is so light lets say 150wh/mile, you get to go 8 miles.
Now if this motor is by nature very lightweight as is the tank, and air
stations could be set up. Then maybe that would be an interesting hybrid.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
When I get a response from him, I'll pass the word on to the EVDL.
I got a nice email back from Ted West at Car and Driver. Sorry...no
story for the November issue. According to Ted, the story hasn't even
been scheduled yet, and because of this, he hasn't finished writing it.
Ted 'is' pumped about the story, though, and he's currently pushing to
get it scheduled soon. He says he'll be in contact with me when it's on
the front burner so as to make sure he has all his EV facts correct for
the story. Wow, a writer from a car mag who likes EVs 'and' he wants to
get his facts straight..we're making progress, folks!
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Condie wrote:
In a related question, what is the impact on a controller in a 2 motor
setup when the motors are shifted from series to parallel? Is there a
kick back to the controller from the brief period when both circuits
are open before the parallel circuit contactors close? Does the sudden
change in the volts and amps being fed each motor feed back to the
controller in a potentially damaging way?
You MUST turn off the controller, and wait for the motor current to
decay to zero, THEN switch the motors between series or parallel, and
THEN you can turn the controller back on. If you try to switch the
motors while current is flowing in them, the motor inductance will
produce huge amounts of arcing and voltage spikes. This will be murder
on the contactors and controller.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
New month, new catalog, new battery...
3 posts on it(12 volt tap):
http://www.altronicsinc.com/media/V_FLYER.jpg
http://www.altronicsinc.com/pages/16Vbattery.html
http://www.altronicsinc.com/
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&categoryId=97812&parentCategoryId=10683
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, Lee. That's what I was afraid of. How does the Zilla do it?
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Steve Condie wrote:
> In a related question, what is the impact on a controller in a 2 motor
> setup when the motors are shifted from series to parallel? Is there a
> kick back to the controller from the brief period when both circuits
> are open before the parallel circuit contactors close? Does the sudden
> change in the volts and amps being fed each motor feed back to the
> controller in a potentially damaging way?
You MUST turn off the controller, and wait for the motor current to
decay to zero, THEN switch the motors between series or parallel, and
THEN you can turn the controller back on. If you try to switch the
motors while current is flowing in them, the motor inductance will
produce huge amounts of arcing and voltage spikes. This will be murder
on the contactors and controller.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
---------------------------------
We have the perfect Group for you. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Nick Viera wrote:
No programming head or computer needed.
That's a hard one nowdays. Having a computer is a given. The first
design decision people seem to make is what operating system it will
run (Windows or Linux...)
You're kidding, right? Tell me you're kidding Lee... is that your idea
of a Halloween prank? - chuckle chuckle.
The mere thought of a monolithic kerneled OS used in an automotive
electric motor controller sends shivers down my spine.
Or are you just talking about the computer used to *configure* the
controller?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm, must have sold out fast. Couldn't find anything. I came up empty
searching for "aluminum
welding", "aluminum", "welding", even 44810. I wonder how they would work at
welding copper wire
to aluminum? I guess it would need to be more of a solder. I wonder if brazing
works with
aluminum? Of course, I'm just asking for corrosion with too many different
metals together.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >for a screw or rivet on mine. The tab broke
> > off a fat 1/8th of an inch high. I might have to scrap >it and get another.
> > Still looking for
> that
> > magic aluminum solder.
> >
>
> I found aluminum welding rods in Harbour Freight. Lot number 44810. Says it
> will weld aluminum
> with ANY low temp torch.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try http://durafix.com/ this looks to be the same.
Regards
Randall Prentice
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Cover
> Sent: Wednesday, 1 November 2006 5:06 p.m.
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: ceramic fin repair
>
>
> Hmmm, must have sold out fast. Couldn't find anything. I came
> up empty searching for "aluminum welding", "aluminum",
> "welding", even 44810. I wonder how they would work at
> welding copper wire to aluminum? I guess it would need to be
> more of a solder. I wonder if brazing works with aluminum? Of
> course, I'm just asking for corrosion with too many different
> metals together.
>
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > >for a screw or rivet on mine. The tab broke
> > > off a fat 1/8th of an inch high. I might have to scrap
> >it and get
> > >another. Still looking for
> > that
> > > magic aluminum solder.
> > >
> >
> > I found aluminum welding rods in Harbour Freight. Lot
> number 44810.
> > Says it will weld aluminum with ANY low temp torch.
> >
> >
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 08:04:22PM -0800, Stefan T. Peters wrote:
> Lee Hart wrote:
> >Nick Viera wrote:
> >
> >>>No programming head or computer needed.
> >
> >The first design decision people seem to make is what operating system it
> >will run (Windows or Linux...)
<..snip..>
> The mere thought of a monolithic kerneled OS used in an automotive
> electric motor controller sends shivers down my spine.
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3612
RT Linux is already being used all over the place for tasks far more critical
then motor controllers. It looks like it's also used for brushless DC
controllers.
Or perhaps this was subtle sarcasm?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The mere thought of a monolithic kerneled OS used in an automotive
> electric motor controller sends shivers down my spine.
>
> Or are you just talking about the computer used to *configure* the
> controller?
>
I hope it was the design system - an on-board computer that can commit
the automotive equivalent of the blue screen of death is not a
pleasant thought.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think pusher trailers are a great idea. What I'm wondering is, is it
legal for a trailer to be powered? If that's the case, you could have a car
with no engine/motor at all and rely on the pusher trailer to power it
forward... Can this be street legal?
Lawrence Lile wrote:
> You see EV'ers building ICE pusher trailers to extend their range. What
> about the other way around? You take a rear end and differential, hack
> on a motor batteries and controller, and hitch it up to whatever car you
> want.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Austin wrote:
On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 08:04:22PM -0800, Stefan T. Peters wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
Nick Viera wrote:
No programming head or computer needed.
The first design decision people seem to make is what operating system it
will run (Windows or Linux...)
<..snip..>
The mere thought of a monolithic kerneled OS used in an automotive
electric motor controller sends shivers down my spine.
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3612
RT Linux is already being used all over the place for tasks far more critical
then motor controllers. It looks like it's also used for brushless DC
controllers.
Or perhaps this was subtle sarcasm?
What critical real-world control task is the OS performing here?
"Most of these devices contain embedded controllers which export their
functionality via a dedicated interface such as a serial line, parallel
interface or computer bus to the outside world. Our task consists of
determining how to interface these different hardware devices in a
coherent and efficient manner so that higher-level software (often not
written by us) can access it easily."
I agree that a full-featured (typically monolithic kerneled) OS is very
appropriate for the *central administration* of a collection of embedded
controllers (as you're example illustrates). Microcontrollers are
controlling the nuts and bolts here, the PCs are controlling the
microcontrollers.
I'm not knocking Linux (my favorite OS has a monolithic kernel -
FreeBSD). A small *nix (embedded Linux, QNX, riverOS, picoBSD, etc) EV
"ECU" which interfaces together the motor controller, BMS, dashboard
display, yadada might make perfect sense. Just keep the penguins (and
daemons or any other mascots) out of my motor controller, please ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" Subject: RE: The air car???
Air gets hot when you compress it, this heat takes away a major amount of
your energy and is basically lost.
I was telling somebody this same thing when they pointed out that energy
lost in heat when the air is compressed is gotten back when the air expands
, at watch time it takes energy out or the surrounding air in the from of
heat . So the airs cold ness is just the heat around being converted into
energy that then moves something . Kind of like 2 wires to a battery both
deliver some of the power. One wire is the air tank and the other is the out
side environment. As the air expands the energy to do work comes from both
the tank and the environment . This has made me wonder a bit , as all the
heat that a compressor makes , if it is loss or not. still seems very waste
full , . What about some kind of air conditioning that ran on compressed are
, if you figure how much battery it would take compaired to the a air
tank, and stuff. maybe it would work out , You could have the exhust of the
AC run a small air motor to run the fan . I would like to see some numbers
on the air motor . like how many watt hours in to watt hours out , or hp
hours :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Put me on that list. I am very much interested.
mm.
> Maybe.
> I guess there is a discount after 50 units, not sure how much?
> If we could start a list of people who are interested.
>
> -Tehben
>
> On Oct 31, 2006, at 1:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>
>> I am and have posted several times the information from Valence.
>>
>> Don
>>
>> In a message dated 10/31/2006 12:10:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>>
>> Are there other people interested in a Valence group buy? The rep
>> told me
>> of about 40 to 50% discount with high volume.
>>
>> JJ
>>
>>> On 8 Oct 2006 at 11:29, GWMobile wrote:
>>>
>>>> I encourage to actual get the batteries you want from the start and
>>>> not listen to those who say start with what you don't want and
>>>> upgrade later.
>>>
>>> I was going through some old unread messages and I came across this
>>> note. It may be that this has already been addressed; if so
>>> disregard
>>> this.
>>>
>>> I think the above advice is inappropriate for new EV hobbyists,
>>> unless
>>> "the batteries you want" are either very sturdy and economical
>>> (such as
>>> golf car batteries), or else the battery love of your life is a
>>> complete system with charger and BMS (and preferably an integrated
>>> controller or at least a cooperative one too). There are very
>>> few such
>>> integrated systems, though my impression is that the Valence comes
>>> pretty close (at a substantial price).
>>>
>>> There's a certain amount of skill and art to battery
>>> maintenance. It's
>>> a great tradition for beginning EVers to destroy their first
>>> batteries
>>> in the process of learning these skills. Do you want to kill a
>>> $1500
>>> pack, or a $15,000 one?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> One thing you can also remember is you can buy a 5500 watt gas
>>>> generator on wheels at pep boys for about $300. With a trailer
>>>> hitch
>>>> you would have unlimited mileage in your electric for longer
>>>> trips.
>>>
>>> Three problems, in random order (you decide what the order of
>>> importance
>>> is to you) :
>>>
>>> 1. You'll be polluting to a gross degree, probably on the order of
>>> HUNDREDS of times as much as your ICE. You will also burn more
>>> fuel
>>> than you would in the ICE.
>>>
>>> 2. Unless you have a very light, efficient EV, a 5kW genset won't
>>> keep
>>> you going down the road at highway speeds. Most conversions need
>>> 12-15kW to maintain 55-60 mph.
>>>
>>> 3. The cheap gensets I've seen at the dollar stores at about this
>>> price
>>> appear to be crude and poorly made. They're apt to be barely
>>> adequate
>>> for use a few times a year. Use one of these, and you're likely to
>>> drop your car's reliability to about that of a Model T. Better
>>> make
>>> sure your road service card is paid up.
>>>
>>> It's possible to build a somewhat clean, somewhat efficient,
>>> reasonably
>>> reliable series hybrid (though it will almost impossible for a
>>> homebuilder to make one as clean, efficient, or reliable as a
>>> factory
>>> ICE, let alone a factory hybrid). But it is a lot of work, and the
>>> result won't look anything like these cheap portable gensets. If
>>> you're considering running your EV with a portable genset,
>>> please do
>>> our lungs (and yourself) a favor and don't bother with the EV,
>>> just
>>> keep driving your ICE.
>>>
>>>
>>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>>> EV List Assistant Administrator
>>>
>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on
>>> vacation, or
>>> switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>> = Note:
>>> mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
>>> To send
>>> a private message, please obtain my email address from
>>> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Something similiar I was thinking about was having a car with
exchangeable rear-wheel drive. Use the electric for around town, going
longer distance, swap-in the ICE drive. You back up the car into a
docking station, and it shifts out one drive and shifts in another, and
you drive off. Its really not that crazy an idea, better than having
two cars.
Jack
Bruce wrote:
I think pusher trailers are a great idea. What I'm wondering is, is it
legal for a trailer to be powered? If that's the case, you could have a car
with no engine/motor at all and rely on the pusher trailer to power it
forward... Can this be street legal?
Lawrence Lile wrote:
You see EV'ers building ICE pusher trailers to extend their range. What
about the other way around? You take a rear end and differential, hack
on a motor batteries and controller, and hitch it up to whatever car you
want.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's that time again, so here it is: Ode tro the season, Ya thought I
forgot??
Subject: Seasons Greetings; it's Witchcraft!
Hi All;
Heres to Air cars and the Hot Aire Line!
Witchcraft
They came, of course, at the Engineers call,
The Witches, the Broomsticks, the cats an' all.
He led the Hags to a passenger train.
The Diseasels were trying to drag in vain.
Now then .Says he " You've had you're fun.
Here are the cars you've got to run
You may keep your black cats to hug, but,that silver train
you've got to lug"
Since then, on many a train you'll see.
A broomstick, plain as plain can be.
On every stick, there's a witch astride.
As for that old hag, you can't see her.
But if you listen you can hear her black cat's purr!
And now and again, as a train goes by,
you can catch a gleam from her wicked eye.
Often you've looked at an electric train.
But what moved it was not so plain.
It couldn't be those wires above?
For they could neither push nor shove.
Where was the motor that made it go?
You couldn't guess, but now you know!
Apologies to Oliver Wendell Holmes!.........and you folks that don't live
around E railroads or Light Rail.
You older Listers may remember this one from ''97, first time around
OK Back to Dump Charging , regen, sep-ex and chargin' along!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It wouldn't surprise me. I've worked on a portable satelite earth
terminal that has a box that controlled dish positioning and tracking. It
ran Windows CE with Telnet, FTP and Web servers, all this to control two
servos.
Seemed like a little overkill to me.
>> >The first design decision people seem to make is what operating system
>> it
>> >will run (Windows or Linux...)
>
> <..snip..>
>
>> The mere thought of a monolithic kerneled OS used in an automotive
>> electric motor controller sends shivers down my spine.
>
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3612
>
> RT Linux is already being used all over the place for tasks far more
> critical
> then motor controllers. It looks like it's also used for brushless DC
> controllers.
>
> Or perhaps this was subtle sarcasm?
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:43 PM 31/10/06 -0600, Lee Hart wrote:
Steve Condie wrote:
In a related question, what is the impact on a controller in a 2 motor
setup when the motors are shifted from series to parallel? Is there a
kick back to the controller from the brief period when both circuits
are open before the parallel circuit contactors close? Does the sudden
change in the volts and amps being fed each motor feed back to the
controller in a potentially damaging way?
You MUST turn off the controller, and wait for the motor current to decay
to zero, THEN switch the motors between series or parallel, and THEN you
can turn the controller back on. If you try to switch the motors while
current is flowing in them, the motor inductance will produce huge amounts
of arcing and voltage spikes. This will be murder on the contactors and
controller.
G'day Lee, and All
If you're not reversing the motors, or the reversing contactors are after
the series/parallel contactors, an external freewheel diode of suitable
rating across each motor will take care of that.
Just as long as the controller is shut off before switching should be OK.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day All
Periodically discussion turns to flexible steel conduit, Rockby electronics
in Australia has Annaconda brand on special, including orange colour.
http://www.rockby.com.au/Rockby/Mailer/011006_1.Htm#31419
Don't forget that these are aussie dollars, currently Aus$1 is about
US$0.73. I don't know how these prices compare to elsewhere (but a fair bit
cheaper than my local electrical wholesaler).
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The point here is that they want to show the Ohm-sign,
which is called "Omega" in Greek and the uppercase
Omega is the common sign for Ohm.
The lowercase Omega looks like a W, so that is likely
why they write it like that, not correct or exact but
it can be represented in western alphabet, comparable
to the use of the u for micro, wich actually should
have a tail as it is the Greek character Mu.
http://people.msoe.edu/~tritt/greek.html
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Andre' Blanchard
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BULK] Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
At 04:13 PM 10/31/2006, you wrote:
>Lawrence Lile wrote [on using a piece of copper foil as a fuse]:
>>That is why it is so much fun to watch! With proper safety equipment
>>of course.
>
>Oh, yes! In fact, one of the "fun" mad science experiments is to use a
>short thin strand of copper wire as a "fuse" across the AC power line, or
>to discharge a large capacitor. The resulting BANG is about as powerful
>and destructive as a firecracker!
Kind of like this.
http://web.mit.edu/Edgerton/www/ExplodingWire.html
Being MIT you would hope they will some day see the error in the line.
"nichrome wire with a cold resistance of 3 W."
They do have some practical uses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploding-bridgewire_detonator
At least if you find A-bombs practical.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
who has the list? 50% off of what?
--- Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Put me on that list. I am very much interested.
>
> mm.
>
>
> > Maybe.
> > I guess there is a discount after 50 units, not
> sure how much?
> > If we could start a list of people who are
> interested.
> >
> > -Tehben
> >
> > On Oct 31, 2006, at 1:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I am and have posted several times the
> information from Valence.
> >>
> >> Don
> >>
> >> In a message dated 10/31/2006 12:10:53 PM Pacific
> Standard Time,
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >>
> >> Are there other people interested in a Valence
> group buy? The rep
> >> told me
> >> of about 40 to 50% discount with high volume.
> >>
> >> JJ
> >>
> >>> On 8 Oct 2006 at 11:29, GWMobile wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I encourage to actual get the batteries you
> want from the start and
> >>>> not listen to those who say start with what
> you don't want and
> >>>> upgrade later.
> >>>
> >>> I was going through some old unread messages and
> I came across this
> >>> note. It may be that this has already been
> addressed; if so
> >>> disregard
> >>> this.
> >>>
> >>> I think the above advice is inappropriate for
> new EV hobbyists,
> >>> unless
> >>> "the batteries you want" are either very
> sturdy and economical
> >>> (such as
> >>> golf car batteries), or else the battery love
> of your life is a
> >>> complete system with charger and BMS (and
> preferably an integrated
> >>> controller or at least a cooperative one too).
> There are very
> >>> few such
> >>> integrated systems, though my impression is
> that the Valence comes
> >>> pretty close (at a substantial price).
> >>>
> >>> There's a certain amount of skill and art to
> battery
> >>> maintenance. It's
> >>> a great tradition for beginning EVers to
> destroy their first
> >>> batteries
> >>> in the process of learning these skills. Do
> you want to kill a
> >>> $1500
> >>> pack, or a $15,000 one?
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> One thing you can also remember is you can buy
> a 5500 watt gas
> >>>> generator on wheels at pep boys for about
> $300. With a trailer
> >>>> hitch
> >>>> you would have unlimited mileage in your
> electric for longer
> >>>> trips.
> >>>
> >>> Three problems, in random order (you decide
> what the order of
> >>> importance
> >>> is to you) :
> >>>
> >>> 1. You'll be polluting to a gross degree,
> probably on the order of
> >>> HUNDREDS of times as much as your ICE. You
> will also burn more
> >>> fuel
> >>> than you would in the ICE.
> >>>
> >>> 2. Unless you have a very light, efficient EV, a
> 5kW genset won't
> >>> keep
> >>> you going down the road at highway speeds.
> Most conversions need
> >>> 12-15kW to maintain 55-60 mph.
> >>>
> >>> 3. The cheap gensets I've seen at the dollar
> stores at about this
> >>> price
> >>> appear to be crude and poorly made. They're apt
> to be barely
> >>> adequate
> >>> for use a few times a year. Use one of these,
> and you're likely to
> >>> drop your car's reliability to about that of a
> Model T. Better
> >>> make
> >>> sure your road service card is paid up.
> >>>
> >>> It's possible to build a somewhat clean,
> somewhat efficient,
> >>> reasonably
> >>> reliable series hybrid (though it will almost
> impossible for a
> >>> homebuilder to make one as clean, efficient,
> or reliable as a
> >>> factory
> >>> ICE, let alone a factory hybrid). But it is a
> lot of work, and the
> >>> result won't look anything like these cheap
> portable gensets. If
> >>> you're considering running your EV with a
> portable genset,
> >>> please do
> >>> our lungs (and yourself) a favor and don't
> bother with the EV,
> >>> just
> >>> keep driving your ICE.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> >>> EV List Assistant Administrator
> >>>
> >>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = =
> >>> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail
> while you're on
> >>> vacation, or
> >>> switch to digest mode? See how:
> http://www.evdl.org/help/
> >>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = =
> >>> = Note:
> >>> mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses
> will not reach me.
> >>> To send
> >>> a private message, please obtain my email
> address from
> >>> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> >>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = =
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Isnt "reserve" capacity measured at 25 amps of draw? What level of draw
do they consider for the 70AH?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 22:04
To: EVDL
Subject: New 70AH, 16 Volt, AGM Battery?
New month, new catalog, new battery...
3 posts on it(12 volt tap):
http://www.altronicsinc.com/media/V_FLYER.jpg
http://www.altronicsinc.com/pages/16Vbattery.html
http://www.altronicsinc.com/
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10
001&catalogId=10002&categoryId=97812&parentCategoryId=10683
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't believe that this is necessarily true - I have been using one in my
greenhouse for over a year on my new starts, and it works fine, even partly
uncovered.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Walls" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: brrr cold zero F today
> Tim Humphrey wrote:
> > I wonder if you could use a waterbed heater as a floor mat.
> >
>
> I would recommend AGAINST using a waterbed heater. They are not
> designed to operated without a large heatsink (the ton of water). If
> operated without that heatsink, they will overheat and fail very quickly.
>
> --
> 73
> -------------------------------------
> Jim Walls - K6CCC
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Ofc: 818-548-4804
> http://home.earthlink.net/~k6ccc
> AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.21/511 - Release Date: 11/1/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jody,
If a battery is rated at 150 reserve minutes at 25 amps, than you can
calculated the ampere-hour at 25 amps by:
150 mins / 60 = 2.5 hrs
Therefore: 2.5 hrs x 25 amp = 62.5 AH
Note: The ampere-hour at 25 amps will be less than the rated ah that is
listed for the 20 hr rate.
A deep cycle battery will also have there reserve capacity listed at 75 amps
which is closer to what the average EV uses.
The reserve capacity at 75 amps will range from 3.5 to 4 times less than the
capacity at 25 minutes.
Therefore: The 150 minutes at 25 amperes would be about 38 to 42 minutes at
75 amperes.
This V battery is about equal to the capacity of a SCS 150 12 V deep cycle
100 AH battery that is rated at 150 minutes at 25 amps.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 6:07 AM
Subject: RE: New 70AH, 16 Volt, AGM Battery?
> Isnt "reserve" capacity measured at 25 amps of draw? What level of draw
> do they consider for the 70AH?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 22:04
> To: EVDL
> Subject: New 70AH, 16 Volt, AGM Battery?
>
> New month, new catalog, new battery...
>
>
> 3 posts on it(12 volt tap):
>
> http://www.altronicsinc.com/media/V_FLYER.jpg
>
> http://www.altronicsinc.com/pages/16Vbattery.html
> http://www.altronicsinc.com/
>
> http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10
> 001&catalogId=10002&categoryId=97812&parentCategoryId=10683
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have some aluminum brazing material that I bought several years ago. It is
called alumalloy or alumaloy. It works pretty good with regular propane but
even better with Mapp. The material will stick like solder to any cleaned
aluminum surface. The result is a very hard aluminum repair. Its bond strength
is very good but I have had 1 repair break after 1 year. I think I didnt have
the base metal hot enough and got a "cold braze". Other than that it is very
easy to use. I have not seen the stuff Harbor freight sells. Alumaloy can be
found online through the manufacturer in Canada.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: ceramic fin repair
Hmmm, must have sold out fast. Couldn't find anything. I came up empty
searching
for "aluminum
welding", "aluminum", "welding", even 44810. I wonder how they would work at
welding copper wire
to aluminum? I guess it would need to be more of a solder. I wonder if brazing
works with
aluminum? Of course, I'm just asking for corrosion with too many different
metals together.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >for a screw or rivet on mine. The tab broke
> > off a fat 1/8th of an inch high. I might have to scrap >it and get another.
Still looking for
> that
> > magic aluminum solder.
> >
>
> I found aluminum welding rods in Harbour Freight. Lot number 44810. Says it
will weld aluminum
> with ANY low temp torch.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Along the line of a group buy , I had a though , what if a group bought one
pack , of a123's for say 25k . Each dollar could be looked at as a share,
like stock. Now a web site would be set up with a calendar and people could
bid on having the batteries on certain days. Some days would be "hot " days
like when a ev drag race event , other days the daily price would be lower.
All the money collected each day would be divided between the stock holders
, depending on the amount of "stock " they had.... So a 25k pack that got
2500 charges would brake even at $10 per day . As a share holder , your
could watch your batteries travel around the world , setting records and
putting money in your account . Then with the money in your account , pick a
few weeks when your changing out your ev batteries and try them out in your
ev or never use them and just enjoy your returns. There is the problem of
shipping them , people wouldn't be just keeping them for a day or two .
my to shares worth
Steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is their discount breakdown
Discounts with quantity (for U-Charge not the BMS or BDI):
50-249: 27%
250-999: 32%
1000-5000: 36%
5000+ : 40%
I dont know if anyone is keeping a list or the name and number of
interested clients.
JJ
> who has the list? 50% off of what?
>
> --- Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Put me on that list. I am very much interested.
>>
>> mm.
>>
>>
>> > Maybe.
>> > I guess there is a discount after 50 units, not
>> sure how much?
>> > If we could start a list of people who are
>> interested.
>> >
>> > -Tehben
>> >
>> > On Oct 31, 2006, at 1:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I am and have posted several times the
>> information from Valence.
>> >>
>> >> Don
>> >>
>> >> In a message dated 10/31/2006 12:10:53 PM Pacific
>> Standard Time,
>> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>> >>
>> >> Are there other people interested in a Valence
>> group buy? The rep
>> >> told me
>> >> of about 40 to 50% discount with high volume.
>> >>
>> >> JJ
>> >>
>> >>> On 8 Oct 2006 at 11:29, GWMobile wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I encourage to actual get the batteries you
>> want from the start and
>> >>>> not listen to those who say start with what
>> you don't want and
>> >>>> upgrade later.
>> >>>
>> >>> I was going through some old unread messages and
>> I came across this
>> >>> note. It may be that this has already been
>> addressed; if so
>> >>> disregard
>> >>> this.
>> >>>
>> >>> I think the above advice is inappropriate for
>> new EV hobbyists,
>> >>> unless
>> >>> "the batteries you want" are either very
>> sturdy and economical
>> >>> (such as
>> >>> golf car batteries), or else the battery love
>> of your life is a
>> >>> complete system with charger and BMS (and
>> preferably an integrated
>> >>> controller or at least a cooperative one too).
>> There are very
>> >>> few such
>> >>> integrated systems, though my impression is
>> that the Valence comes
>> >>> pretty close (at a substantial price).
>> >>>
>> >>> There's a certain amount of skill and art to
>> battery
>> >>> maintenance. It's
>> >>> a great tradition for beginning EVers to
>> destroy their first
>> >>> batteries
>> >>> in the process of learning these skills. Do
>> you want to kill a
>> >>> $1500
>> >>> pack, or a $15,000 one?
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> One thing you can also remember is you can buy
>> a 5500 watt gas
>> >>>> generator on wheels at pep boys for about
>> $300. With a trailer
>> >>>> hitch
>> >>>> you would have unlimited mileage in your
>> electric for longer
>> >>>> trips.
>> >>>
>> >>> Three problems, in random order (you decide
>> what the order of
>> >>> importance
>> >>> is to you) :
>> >>>
>> >>> 1. You'll be polluting to a gross degree,
>> probably on the order of
>> >>> HUNDREDS of times as much as your ICE. You
>> will also burn more
>> >>> fuel
>> >>> than you would in the ICE.
>> >>>
>> >>> 2. Unless you have a very light, efficient EV, a
>> 5kW genset won't
>> >>> keep
>> >>> you going down the road at highway speeds.
>> Most conversions need
>> >>> 12-15kW to maintain 55-60 mph.
>> >>>
>> >>> 3. The cheap gensets I've seen at the dollar
>> stores at about this
>> >>> price
>> >>> appear to be crude and poorly made. They're apt
>> to be barely
>> >>> adequate
>> >>> for use a few times a year. Use one of these,
>> and you're likely to
>> >>> drop your car's reliability to about that of a
>> Model T. Better
>> >>> make
>> >>> sure your road service card is paid up.
>> >>>
>> >>> It's possible to build a somewhat clean,
>> somewhat efficient,
>> >>> reasonably
>> >>> reliable series hybrid (though it will almost
>> impossible for a
>> >>> homebuilder to make one as clean, efficient,
>> or reliable as a
>> >>> factory
>> >>> ICE, let alone a factory hybrid). But it is a
>> lot of work, and the
>> >>> result won't look anything like these cheap
>> portable gensets. If
>> >>> you're considering running your EV with a
>> portable genset,
>> >>> please do
>> >>> our lungs (and yourself) a favor and don't
>> bother with the EV,
>> >>> just
>> >>> keep driving your ICE.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> >>> EV List Assistant Administrator
>> >>>
>> >>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> = = = = = = = = =
>> >>> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail
>> while you're on
>> >>> vacation, or
>> >>> switch to digest mode? See how:
>> http://www.evdl.org/help/
>> >>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> = = = = = = = =
>> >>> = Note:
>> >>> mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses
>> will not reach me.
>> >>> To send
>> >>> a private message, please obtain my email
>> address from
>> >>> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>> >>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> = = = = = = = = =
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited
> (http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
> Along the line of a group buy , I had a though , what if a group bought
one
> pack , of a123's for say 25k . Each dollar could be looked at as a share,
> like stock. Now a web site would be set up with a calendar and people
could
> bid on having the batteries on certain days. Some days would be "hot "
days
> like when a ev drag race event , other days the daily price would be
lower.
> All the money collected each day would be divided between the stock
holders
> , depending on the amount of "stock " they had.... So a 25k pack that got
> 2500 charges would brake even at $10 per day . As a share holder , your
> could watch your batteries travel around the world , setting records and
> putting money in your account . Then with the money in your account , pick
a
> few weeks when your changing out your ev batteries and try them out in
your
> ev or never use them and just enjoy your returns. There is the problem of
> shipping them , people wouldn't be just keeping them for a day or two .
> my to shares worth
> Steve clunn
> Hi Steve an' EVerybody;
A novel aproach! What ARE we talking about as to price?And the Battery
Managment System we need for it. An 8 dollar word for charger. I don't think
you can use your Bad Boy on these?Maybe your PFC Whatever, though?EVerybody
here needs better batteries, and a big enough order might put them in the
realm of us common folks?IF they are that powerful you wouldn't NEED a
pallot's worth. Right??
My two watts worth.
Bob
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.21/511 - Release Date: 11/1/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
