EV Digest 6086
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: ceramic fin repair
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Series/parallel switch, was: Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: ceramic fin repair
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) ceramic heater core mounting
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: ceramic fin repair
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Robyn Lundstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: ceramic fin repair
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: CURRENT ELIMINATOR DRAGSTER News
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: [BULK] Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Motor Vibration
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Welding: Fusing two metal pieces by melting the material of the pieces.
The materials are usually the same (steel to steel or Al to Al).
Sometimes you use a filler rod, which is usually of the same material.
Soldering / Brazing: Using a filler metal of a lower melting temperature
(than the materials being bonded) to bond two pieces of metal together.
The original pieces are not melted in the process. The difference is
that soldering occurs if the filler melts at less than 840F. Above this
temperature, it's considered brazing.
The aluminum "welding" rods that work with a "low temp torch" are almost
certainly some kind of brazing rod.
If this is for a heat sink or something similar, you're going to need to
weld it. Whatever brazing material your using is unlikely to have the
same thermal conductivity as aluminum.
Dave Cover wrote:
Hmmm, must have sold out fast. Couldn't find anything. I came up empty searching for
"aluminum
welding", "aluminum", "welding", even 44810. I wonder how they would work at
welding copper wire
to aluminum? I guess it would need to be more of a solder. I wonder if brazing
works with
aluminum? Of course, I'm just asking for corrosion with too many different
metals together.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
for a screw or rivet on mine. The tab broke
off a fat 1/8th of an inch high. I might have to scrap >it and get another.
Still looking for
that
magic aluminum solder.
I found aluminum welding rods in Harbour Freight. Lot number 44810. Says it
will weld aluminum
with ANY low temp torch.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is the U-Charge any good without the BMS?
If not what would be the charge for the BMS?
What voltage/amperage U-Charge is being discounted?
What kind of a charging system is needed?
What would be the total price for a pack in the discount quantities?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
>
>
> This is their discount breakdown
>
> Discounts with quantity (for U-Charge - not the BMS or BDI):
>
> 50-249: 27%
>
> 250-999: 32%
>
> 1000-5000: 36%
>
> 5000+ : 40%
>
> I dont know if anyone is keeping a list or the name and number of
> interested clients.
>
> JJ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is the price I received, I dont know of any more details. I am sure
some of the veterans here can chip in
U1-12XP/RT - $860 usd
U24-12XP/RT - $2030 usd
U27-12XP/RT - $2550 usd
UEV-18XP - $1935 usd
U-BMS - $135 usd
U-BDI - $40 usd
I am sure any good charger can be programmed for this
JJ
> Is the U-Charge any good without the BMS?
> If not what would be the charge for the BMS?
> What voltage/amperage U-Charge is being discounted?
> What kind of a charging system is needed?
>
> What would be the total price for a pack in the discount quantities?
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:20 AM
> Subject: Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
>
>
>>
>>
>> This is their discount breakdown
>>
>> Discounts with quantity (for U-Charge - not the BMS or BDI):
>>
>> 50-249: 27%
>>
>> 250-999: 32%
>>
>> 1000-5000: 36%
>>
>> 5000+ : 40%
>>
>> I dont know if anyone is keeping a list or the name and number of
>> interested clients.
>>
>> JJ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The point is to lower the prices by increasing the volume, which this
rental co-op idea does not do. However, even with the lower prices, the
cost of these batteries is much too high.
I don't buy into "they last 10 times longer, so pay 10 times as much"
argument. Maybe I do with roof shingles or marble floors, because its
proven over decades, but "who ya gonna call" in 4 years when the
batteries die/malfunction and these companies have shut their doors.
Most all startups do not survive.
Jack
steve clunn wrote:
Along the line of a group buy , I had a though , what if a group bought
one pack , of a123's for say 25k . Each dollar could be looked at as a
share, like stock. Now a web site would be set up with a calendar and
people could bid on having the batteries on certain days. Some days
would be "hot " days like when a ev drag race event , other days the
daily price would be lower. All the money collected each day would be
divided between the stock holders , depending on the amount of "stock "
they had.... So a 25k pack that got 2500 charges would brake even at $10
per day . As a share holder , your could watch your batteries travel
around the world , setting records and putting money in your account .
Then with the money in your account , pick a few weeks when your
changing out your ev batteries and try them out in your ev or never use
them and just enjoy your returns. There is the problem of shipping them
, people wouldn't be just keeping them for a day or two .
my to shares worth
Steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm interested as well. I'll take 120V's worth:) With or w/o BMS?
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
I am and have posted several times the information from Valence.
Don
In a message dated 10/31/2006 12:10:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Are there other people interested in a Valence group buy? The rep told me
of about 40 to 50% discount with high volume.
JJ
On 8 Oct 2006 at 11:29, GWMobile wrote:
I encourage to actual get the batteries you want from the start and
not listen to those who say start with what you don't want and
upgrade later.
I was going through some old unread messages and I came across this
note. It may be that this has already been addressed; if so disregard
this.
I think the above advice is inappropriate for new EV hobbyists, unless
"the batteries you want" are either very sturdy and economical (such as
golf car batteries), or else the battery love of your life is a
complete system with charger and BMS (and preferably an integrated
controller or at least a cooperative one too). There are very few such
integrated systems, though my impression is that the Valence comes
pretty close (at a substantial price).
There's a certain amount of skill and art to battery maintenance. It's
a great tradition for beginning EVers to destroy their first batteries
in the process of learning these skills. Do you want to kill a $1500
pack, or a $15,000 one?
One thing you can also remember is you can buy a 5500 watt gas
generator on wheels at pep boys for about $300. With a trailer hitch
you would have unlimited mileage in your electric for longer trips.
Three problems, in random order (you decide what the order of importance
is to you) :
1. You'll be polluting to a gross degree, probably on the order of
HUNDREDS of times as much as your ICE. You will also burn more fuel
than you would in the ICE.
2. Unless you have a very light, efficient EV, a 5kW genset won't keep
you going down the road at highway speeds. Most conversions need
12-15kW to maintain 55-60 mph.
3. The cheap gensets I've seen at the dollar stores at about this price
appear to be crude and poorly made. They're apt to be barely adequate
for use a few times a year. Use one of these, and you're likely to
drop your car's reliability to about that of a Model T. Better make
sure your road service card is paid up.
It's possible to build a somewhat clean, somewhat efficient, reasonably
reliable series hybrid (though it will almost impossible for a
homebuilder to make one as clean, efficient, or reliable as a factory
ICE, let alone a factory hybrid). But it is a lot of work, and the
result won't look anything like these cheap portable gensets. If
you're considering running your EV with a portable genset, please do
our lungs (and yourself) a favor and don't bother with the EV, just
keep driving your ICE.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Condie wrote:
Thanks, Lee. That's what I was afraid of. How does the Zilla do it?
It has a microcomputer to do all the sequencing for you.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Chancey wrote:
Interesting timing on this. I was just commenting to several other
EVers about the gap between the Curtis and Zilla, and the potentially
limited availability of either one. If either Curtis or Otmar decide to
follow other priorities, we could soon find ourselves in a serious pinch.
That is indeed close to the root of the problem. Making controllers for
on-the-road EVs is not a good business. Sales will be very low. This
virtually guarantees they will be hand-made, and price will be high.
EVers have very high expectations, are very hard on controllers, and
notorious cheapskates; there will be lots of complaining about price,
lots of warranty returns, and lots of customer support.
Think of it from the point of view of a businessman; why SHOULD he build
controllers? No one has provided any reasons why he should bother!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's a hard one nowdays. Having a computer is a given. The first
design decision people seem to make is what operating system it will
run (Windows or Linux...)
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
You're kidding, right? Tell me you're kidding Lee... is that your idea
of a Halloween prank? - chuckle chuckle.
The mere thought of a monolithic kerneled OS used in an automotive
electric motor controller sends shivers down my spine.
Or are you just talking about the computer used to *configure* the
controller?
I'm only half kidding. There are people that *do* want a full-blown PC
or its equivalent to run their car. They want their car on the internet,
wifi connected, GPS tracking, accessible with their web browser etc.
I've read that there are now on average 24 computers in a new car, and
that the electronics represents 30% of the cost of the car. And these
figures are going up!
That's scary, because the auto companies use proprietary custom
nonrepairable "black box" computers. Troubleshooting can be a nightmare,
and replacement costs astronomical. In this situation, there are people
that prefer an "open architecture" like PCs.
Personally, I think this would produce even more reliability and
repairability headaches. Cars must work in a far harsher environment
than PCs. Cars tend to last 10 years or more, but PCs change monthly.
Where are you going to get parts for a 10 year old PC?
If folks really want to do this, I think it is vital to have all the
critical systems in the car built to operate normally even with the main
computer dead. For instance, your EV's controller has no micro, and has
hard-wired current and voltage limits. But the central computer can
control the potbox input, to impose further reductions in voltage and
current. For example, the controller has a 500 amp current limit; but
the central controller knows the batteries are cold, and won't allow the
throttle to command the controller to draw more than 400 amps.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Massey wrote:
If you're not reversing the motors, or the reversing contactors are
after the series/parallel contactors, an external freewheel diode of
suitable rating across each motor will take care of that. Just as
long as the controller is shut off before switching should be OK.
The controller can shut off its transistors instantly. But it will take
the motors a significant fraction of a second for their current to ramp
back down to zero, since they are shorted during this time by the
controller's freewheel diodes.
Series/parallel contactors inevitably have an in-between position as
they move when both contacts are open. If you try to switch them while
motor current is flowing, you get a huge amount of arcing and the
transient voltage can be very high.
So, the sequence is:
- command the controller off
- wait for motor current to fall to zero
- open the parallel contactors
- close the series contactors
- command the controller on
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
Hmmm, must have sold out fast. Couldn't find anything. I came up empty searching for
"aluminum
welding", "aluminum", "welding", even 44810. I wonder how they would work at
welding copper wire
to aluminum? I guess it would need to be more of a solder. I wonder if brazing
works with
aluminum? Of course, I'm just asking for corrosion with too many different
metals together.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
for a screw or rivet on mine. The tab broke
off a fat 1/8th of an inch high. I might have to scrap >it and get another.
Still looking for
that
magic aluminum solder.
I found aluminum welding rods in Harbour Freight. Lot number 44810. Says it
will weld aluminum
with ANY low temp torch.
The tabs on my ceramic heaters aren't aluminum. I don't know what it is;
it's a white nonmagnetic metal, but I can solder to it with ordinary
solder (but I wouldn't -- it can get hot enough to melt solder if the
airflow fails). The 0.25" quick connect tabs on mine are steel, and have
been spot welded to whatever metal the heater itself uses. You can't
spot weld steel to aluminum (or at least, you shouldn't!)
If you are desperate to reuse this element, I'd drill a hole in the tab
and attach the wire with a ring terminal, screw, and nut. Use a nickel
or steel ring terminal (not copper or brass); they are made for high
temperature heating element usage.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> U24-12XP/RT - $2030 usd
Wow...hefty price considering the Valence life curves only forecast up to
600cycles at nearly 10-times the cost of an equivalent energy pbA Hawker.
Even at 60cycles life, even the high priced Hawkers would be cheaper over
the life of the batteries.
Guess you really gotta need the power and volume density performance or it's
just not worth the cost.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To take purchase decision, there is still a very important imho question
un-answered:
What is the calendar life expected (or tested until today) for Valence
battery ?
i read their claim, comparing to lead acid: "exceptional cycle life, >>>and
superior shelf life<<<"
but superior to what number, how much years to expect ?
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
> Is the U-Charge any good without the BMS?
> If not what would be the charge for the BMS?
> What voltage/amperage U-Charge is being discounted?
> What kind of a charging system is needed?
>
> What would be the total price for a pack in the discount quantities?
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:20 AM
> Subject: Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
>
>
> >
> >
> > This is their discount breakdown
> >
> > Discounts with quantity (for U-Charge - not the BMS or BDI):
> >
> > 50-249: 27%
> >
> > 250-999: 32%
> >
> > 1000-5000: 36%
> >
> > 5000+ : 40%
> >
> > I dont know if anyone is keeping a list or the name and number of
> > interested clients.
> >
> > JJ
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Refer to the archives 10-9-2006 has much discussion, same subject with
discount pricing.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
here's an excerpt....
Current single pricing was there these are the prices that I was given.
Don
Current prices
U1= $860
U24= $2030
U27 = $2550
In a message dated 10/8/2006 4:35:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
At 02:34 PM 10/8/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Marc's reply if we put together a 1000 battery order?
>
>Hi Don,
>U1=$515
>U24=$1220
>U27= $1530
>UEV = $1160
>U-BMS = $100
Hmm, that UEV looks interesting. 65AH at 19.2V, I'd only need 8 or 9 of
them in a Sparrow. So around $10,000.
Hmm, wonder what the single unit pricing on those is...
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
__________________________________________________________________
http://www.evsource.com - Professional EV components and resources
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am thinking I seen someone who cut the center out of their original heater
core and mounted the ceramic core in it? I can't rmember where I seen it or
how it was mounted. I am thinking of doing this and setting it in there with
some kind of high temp silicone sealer surounding it. Will this work????
Tom
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the part you have is not Aluminum then Alumaloy is not the stuff. What you
have might be called Cast pot metal. It is usually an alloy of zinc and has a
very low melting point About 750F or so. I have seen very cheap heat sinks made
of this stuff. It is generally pretty brittle and usually breaks giving a
whitish crystalline metallic appearance. It is difficult to repair (i've never
tried though) because of its low MP. I stumbled across this guys site though
maybe he can help. That is of course if pot metal is what youre dealing with.
http://www.muggyweld.com/potmetal.html
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: ceramic fin repair
Dave Cover wrote:
> Hmmm, must have sold out fast. Couldn't find anything. I came up empty
> searching for "aluminum
> welding", "aluminum", "welding", even 44810. I wonder how they would work at
> welding copper wire
> to aluminum? I guess it would need to be more of a solder. I wonder if
> brazing works with
> aluminum? Of course, I'm just asking for corrosion with too many different
> metals together.
> > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>> for a screw or rivet on mine. The tab broke
>>> off a fat 1/8th of an inch high. I might have to scrap >it and get another.
>>> Still looking for
>> that
>>> magic aluminum solder.
>>>
>> I found aluminum welding rods in Harbour Freight. Lot number 44810. Says it
>> will weld aluminum
>> with ANY low temp torch.
The tabs on my ceramic heaters aren't aluminum. I don't know what it is; it's a
white nonmagnetic metal, but I can solder to it with ordinary solder (but I
wouldn't -- it can get hot enough to melt solder if the airflow fails). The
0.25" quick connect tabs on mine are steel, and have been spot welded to
whatever metal the heater itself uses. You can't spot weld steel to aluminum
(or at least, you shouldn't!)
If you are desperate to reuse this element, I'd drill a hole in the tab and
attach the wire with a ring terminal, screw, and nut. Use a nickel or steel
ring terminal (not copper or brass); they are made for high temperature heating
element usage.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free
AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The U-BMS-HV module (all that's apparently needed for BMS functionality) is
USD$100. That quote is as of July. Cheap enough to get lost in the noise of
the purchase price.
Robyn
On 11/1/06, Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is the U-Charge any good without the BMS?
If not what would be the charge for the BMS?
What voltage/amperage U-Charge is being discounted?
What kind of a charging system is needed?
What would be the total price for a pack in the discount quantities?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 10:06:33AM -0600, Lee Hart wrote:
> >>That's a hard one nowdays. Having a computer is a given. The first
> >>design decision people seem to make is what operating system it will
> >>run (Windows or Linux...)
>
> Stefan T. Peters wrote:
> >You're kidding, right?
<..snip..>
> >Or are you just talking about the computer used to *configure* the
> >controller?
>
> I'm only half kidding.
<..snip..>
> That's scary, because the auto companies use proprietary custom
> nonrepairable "black box" computers. ... In this situation, there are
> people that prefer an "open architecture" like PCs.
>
> Personally, I think this would produce even more reliability and
> repairability headaches. Cars must work in a far harsher environment
> than PCs. Cars tend to last 10 years or more, but PCs change monthly.
> Where are you going to get parts for a 10 year old PC?
A 10 year old PC would be in the Pentium or Pentium II, A P4 is a drop in
replacement for a Pentium (or an 8088!)
If you needed an exact replacement, you can still get one on ebay.
The real risk is the loss of the control software. If that's gone, you could
be really screwed.
If you built a motor control system that ran on a PC/104 computer stack
which can be designed for harsh environments, I think you would be pretty safe
going forward.
While you have that PC/104 stack running your controller, you can use another
CPU to run your motors (hypothetical) active magnetic bearings.
> If folks really want to do this, I think it is vital to have all the
> critical systems in the car built to operate normally even with the main
> computer dead.
This seems like a really good idea, but does not seem to be the way cars work
today. If the engine ECU fails in my car, it's dead as a doornail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is best to TIG weld on a high temperature wire rod that is about 1000 F.
rating.
I had to fix a broken lead off a oven heating element. I went to a welding
supply company and pick up one length of high temperature stainless steel
welding rod which I cut off a short piece to weld on to the broken off stub.
Lap the piece of rod over the heater stub. Tack one side and than the
other. That's all you need, about 2 minutes of work.
Before welding on the wire, you can bend it at 90 degrees, so a spade type
connector can also be welded on.
If you do not have a TIG welder, you could make up every thing ready for
welding and take it to a shop that has a TIG welder. I was charge about
$5.00 for 2 minutes work.
If you solder on a wire or wire connection, the wire will crystallize from
the heat of the element. You must weld on a wire connection. Some times if
you have more material to work with, you can get by welding on a high
temperature stainless steel welding rod with acl/Oxy torch.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: ceramic fin repair
> If the part you have is not Aluminum then Alumaloy is not the stuff. What
> you have might be called Cast pot metal. It is usually an alloy of zinc
> and has a very low melting point About 750F or so. I have seen very cheap
> heat sinks made of this stuff. It is generally pretty brittle and usually
> breaks giving a whitish crystalline metallic appearance. It is difficult
> to repair (i've never tried though) because of its low MP. I stumbled
> across this guys site though maybe he can help. That is of course if pot
> metal is what youre dealing with. http://www.muggyweld.com/potmetal.html
>
> Rick
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:22 AM
> Subject: Re: ceramic fin repair
>
>
> Dave Cover wrote:
> > Hmmm, must have sold out fast. Couldn't find anything. I came up empty
> > searching for "aluminum
> > welding", "aluminum", "welding", even 44810. I wonder how they would
> > work at welding copper wire
> > to aluminum? I guess it would need to be more of a solder. I wonder if
> > brazing works with
> > aluminum? Of course, I'm just asking for corrosion with too many
> > different metals together.
> > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >>> for a screw or rivet on mine. The tab broke
> >>> off a fat 1/8th of an inch high. I might have to scrap >it and get
> >>> another. Still looking for
> >> that
> >>> magic aluminum solder.
> >>>
> >> I found aluminum welding rods in Harbour Freight. Lot number 44810.
> >> Says it will weld aluminum
> >> with ANY low temp torch.
>
> The tabs on my ceramic heaters aren't aluminum. I don't know what it is;
> it's a white nonmagnetic metal, but I can solder to it with ordinary
> solder (but I wouldn't -- it can get hot enough to melt solder if the
> airflow fails). The 0.25" quick connect tabs on mine are steel, and have
> been spot welded to whatever metal the heater itself uses. You can't spot
> weld steel to aluminum (or at least, you shouldn't!)
>
> If you are desperate to reuse this element, I'd drill a hole in the tab
> and attach the wire with a ring terminal, screw, and nut. Use a nickel or
> steel ring terminal (not copper or brass); they are made for high
> temperature heating element usage.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
> tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web,
> free AOL Mail and more.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes the 11th at 9am you gona be my crew?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
The point here is that they want to show the Ohm-sign,
which is called "Omega" in Greek and the uppercase
Omega is the common sign for Ohm.
The lowercase Omega looks like a W, so that is likely
why they write it like that, not correct or exact but
it can be represented in western alphabet, comparable
to the use of the u for micro, wich actually should
have a tail as it is the Greek character Mu.
http://people.msoe.edu/~tritt/greek.html
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
They did show a Ohm-sign (on my browser at least). You have to have the
"Symbol" font installed on your PC though. Here is the HTML source from
the page:
resistance of 3 <font face="symbol">W</font>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Before you get a group together, I'm testing these
batteries. http://www.zqpt.com/english/yysl.asp.
I'm working to negotiate the price way down. I'm also
working to secure some major financial backing to
accomplish this. Left Coast has been very quiet lately
because our main focus has been getting the company
funded properly. Look for us to be offering the
products you have been looking for. 'nuff said.
Gadget
Maybe.
I guess there is a discount after 50 units, not sure
how much?
If we could start a list of people who are interested.
-Tehben
On Oct 31, 2006, at 1:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I am and have posted several times the information
from Valence.
>
> Don
>
> In a message dated 10/31/2006 12:10:53 PM Pacific
Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> Are there other people interested in a Valence
group buy? The rep
> told me
> of about 40 to 50% discount with high volume.
>
> JJ
>
>> On 8 Oct 2006 at 11:29, GWMobile wrote:
>>
>>> I encourage to actual get the batteries you want
from the start
and
>>> not listen to those who say start with what you
don't want and
>>> upgrade later.
>>
>> I was going through some old unread messages and I
came across this
>> note. It may be that this has already been
addressed; if so
>> disregard
>> this.
>>
>> I think the above advice is inappropriate for new
EV hobbyists,
>> unless
>> "the batteries you want" are either very sturdy
and economical
>> (such as
>> golf car batteries), or else the battery love of
your life is a
>> complete system with charger and BMS (and
preferably an
integrated
>> controller or at least a cooperative one too).
There are very
>> few such
>> integrated systems, though my impression is that
the Valence comes
>> pretty close (at a substantial price).
>>
>> There's a certain amount of skill and art to
battery
>> maintenance. It's
>> a great tradition for beginning EVers to destroy
their first
>> batteries
>> in the process of learning these skills. Do you
want to kill a
>> $1500
>> pack, or a $15,000 one?
>>
>>>
>>> One thing you can also remember is you can buy a
5500 watt gas
>>> generator on wheels at pep boys for about $300.
With a trailer
>>> hitch
>>> you would have unlimited mileage in your
electric for longer
>>> trips.
>>
>> Three problems, in random order (you decide what
the order of
>> importance
>> is to you) :
>>
>> 1. You'll be polluting to a gross degree, probably
on the order of
>> HUNDREDS of times as much as your ICE. You will
also burn more
>> fuel
>> than you would in the ICE.
>>
>> 2. Unless you have a very light, efficient EV, a
5kW genset won't
>> keep
>> you going down the road at highway speeds. Most
conversions need
>> 12-15kW to maintain 55-60 mph.
>>
>> 3. The cheap gensets I've seen at the dollar stores
at about this
>> price
>> appear to be crude and poorly made. They're apt
to be barely
>> adequate
>> for use a few times a year. Use one of these,
and you're likely
to
>> drop your car's reliability to about that of a
Model T. Better
>> make
>> sure your road service card is paid up.
>>
>> It's possible to build a somewhat clean, somewhat
efficient,
>> reasonably
>> reliable series hybrid (though it will almost
impossible for a
>> homebuilder to make one as clean, efficient, or
reliable as a
>> factory
>> ICE, let alone a factory hybrid). But it is a
lot of work, and
the
>> result won't look anything like these cheap
portable gensets. If
>> you're considering running your EV with a
portable genset,
>> please do
>> our lungs (and yourself) a favor and don't bother
with the EV,
>> just
>> keep driving your ICE.
>>
>>
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EV List Assistant Administrator
>>
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
= = = = = = = =
>> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while
you're on
>> vacation, or
>> switch to digest mode? See how:
http://www.evdl.org/help/
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
= = = = = = =
>> = Note:
>> mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will
not reach me.
>> To send
>> a private message, please obtain my email address
from
>> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
= = = = = = = =
>
visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com, gadgetsworld.org,
leftcoastconversions.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
That's a hard one nowdays. Having a computer is a given. The first
design decision people seem to make is what operating system it will
run (Windows or Linux...)
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
You're kidding, right? Tell me you're kidding Lee... is that your
idea of a Halloween prank? - chuckle chuckle.
The mere thought of a monolithic kerneled OS used in an automotive
electric motor controller sends shivers down my spine.
Or are you just talking about the computer used to *configure* the
controller?
I'm only half kidding. There are people that *do* want a full-blown PC
or its equivalent to run their car. They want their car on the
internet, wifi connected, GPS tracking, accessible with their web
browser etc.
I've read that there are now on average 24 computers in a new car, and
that the electronics represents 30% of the cost of the car. And these
figures are going up!
That's scary, because the auto companies use proprietary custom
nonrepairable "black box" computers. Troubleshooting can be a
nightmare, and replacement costs astronomical. In this situation,
there are people that prefer an "open architecture" like PCs.
My soapbox is rattling around in my closet right now... but I'll
restrain myself and simply say: "How about *one* PC that talks to a
bunch of discreet controllers/sensors using a network". Works for modern
airplanes, right?
Personally, I think this would produce even more reliability and
repairability headaches. Cars must work in a far harsher environment
than PCs. Cars tend to last 10 years or more, but PCs change monthly.
Where are you going to get parts for a 10 year old PC?
The whole '10 year' thing always makes my head shake. I'm proud to say
that I've never owned a car 10 years old or younger. And my friend who
always leases new cars spends more time in the shop then my 'ol
handpicked reliable autos.
That was THE primary thing that attracted me to EVs in the first place.
The dream of a car that I could spend the next 40 years with was strong
mojo to me. The engineering simplicity was second, the quietness was
third, and the social responsibility was fourth.
If folks really want to do this, I think it is vital to have all the
critical systems in the car built to operate normally even with the
main computer dead. For instance, your EV's controller has no micro,
and has hard-wired current and voltage limits. But the central
computer can control the potbox input, to impose further reductions in
voltage and current. For example, the controller has a 500 amp current
limit; but the central controller knows the batteries are cold, and
won't allow the throttle to command the controller to draw more than
400 amps.
Dead on. Let's keep the actual control systems as simple (and
potentially independent) as possible, yet "supervisable"...
--
Stefan T. Peters
Electronic Zombie, Corp.
www.electroniczombie.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Chris
Sorry if this is late but my list emails are still all
screwed up and I've been to busy to check the
archieves lately. First off have you ran the motor on
the bench? Hows the motor work by itself? and then
with the hub installed? Just to let you know .001 is
just about as good as it gets and I'd be very
surprised if this was the problem in itself.
If you'd like give me a call so we can chat real time
about whats going on and see if we can't find your
problem and whether it's even a motor issue. Try
running the motor on 12 volts and see what it says, 12
volts freespin should get you to about where you're
seeing it rpm wise.
You can reach me at 541-610-7424
Anyway just let me know.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- Chris Sutton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have been trying to track down the source of a
> vibration I believe
> is coming from my 8" ADC Motor. The vibration
> starts around 3k RPMS
> and happens in all gears. I have had my flywheel
> zero balanced, and
> have a new pressure plate and clutch.
>
> Recently I put my dial indicator on the face of the
> flywheel. The
> runout was about .015". No matter what I do, and
> how I try and get
> the taper lock and flywheel installed, I can not get
> rid of this. If
> I rotate the flywheel on the taper lock (bolt in on
> differently), the
> high and low readings always stay with the taper
> lock and shaft of the
> motor, so I assume that the flywheel is true, and
> the error is with
> the taper lock or motor shaft.
>
> I then took the flywheel and taper lock off and put
> the dial indicator
> directly on the motor shaft.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/284377471/
>
> and read a .001" wobble in the shaft.
>
> So, my question is, could this cause the vibration,
> or is there
> potential for error in my measurements?
>
> Any suggestions? Can this be fixed? Is this
> normal?
>
> Chris Sutton
> Seattle, WA
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
We have the perfect Group for you. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups
(http://groups.yahoo.com)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gadget, what are your prices and time line?
jj
> Before you get a group together, I'm testing these
> batteries. http://www.zqpt.com/english/yysl.asp.
> I'm working to negotiate the price way down. I'm also
> working to secure some major financial backing to
> accomplish this. Left Coast has been very quiet lately
> because our main focus has been getting the company
> funded properly. Look for us to be offering the
> products you have been looking for. 'nuff said.
>
> Gadget
>
>
>
> Maybe.
> I guess there is a discount after 50 units, not sure
> how much?
> If we could start a list of people who are interested.
>
> -Tehben
>
> On Oct 31, 2006, at 1:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>
>> I am and have posted several times the information
> from Valence.
>>
>> Don
>>
>> In a message dated 10/31/2006 12:10:53 PM Pacific
> Standard Time,
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>>
>> Are there other people interested in a Valence
> group buy? The rep
>> told me
>> of about 40 to 50% discount with high volume.
>>
>> JJ
>>
>>> On 8 Oct 2006 at 11:29, GWMobile wrote:
>>>
>>>> I encourage to actual get the batteries you want
> from the start
> and
>>>> not listen to those who say start with what you
> don't want and
>>>> upgrade later.
>>>
>>> I was going through some old unread messages and I
> came across this
>>> note. It may be that this has already been
> addressed; if so
>>> disregard
>>> this.
>>>
>>> I think the above advice is inappropriate for new
> EV hobbyists,
>>> unless
>>> "the batteries you want" are either very sturdy
> and economical
>>> (such as
>>> golf car batteries), or else the battery love of
> your life is a
>>> complete system with charger and BMS (and
> preferably an
> integrated
>>> controller or at least a cooperative one too).
> There are very
>>> few such
>>> integrated systems, though my impression is that
> the Valence comes
>>> pretty close (at a substantial price).
>>>
>>> There's a certain amount of skill and art to
> battery
>>> maintenance. It's
>>> a great tradition for beginning EVers to destroy
> their first
>>> batteries
>>> in the process of learning these skills. Do you
> want to kill a
>>> $1500
>>> pack, or a $15,000 one?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> One thing you can also remember is you can buy a
> 5500 watt gas
>>>> generator on wheels at pep boys for about $300.
> With a trailer
>>>> hitch
>>>> you would have unlimited mileage in your
> electric for longer
>>>> trips.
>>>
>>> Three problems, in random order (you decide what
> the order of
>>> importance
>>> is to you) :
>>>
>>> 1. You'll be polluting to a gross degree, probably
> on the order of
>>> HUNDREDS of times as much as your ICE. You will
> also burn more
>>> fuel
>>> than you would in the ICE.
>>>
>>> 2. Unless you have a very light, efficient EV, a
> 5kW genset won't
>>> keep
>>> you going down the road at highway speeds. Most
> conversions need
>>> 12-15kW to maintain 55-60 mph.
>>>
>>> 3. The cheap gensets I've seen at the dollar stores
> at about this
>>> price
>>> appear to be crude and poorly made. They're apt
> to be barely
>>> adequate
>>> for use a few times a year. Use one of these,
> and you're likely
> to
>>> drop your car's reliability to about that of a
> Model T. Better
>>> make
>>> sure your road service card is paid up.
>>>
>>> It's possible to build a somewhat clean, somewhat
> efficient,
>>> reasonably
>>> reliable series hybrid (though it will almost
> impossible for a
>>> homebuilder to make one as clean, efficient, or
> reliable as a
>>> factory
>>> ICE, let alone a factory hybrid). But it is a
> lot of work, and
> the
>>> result won't look anything like these cheap
> portable gensets. If
>>> you're considering running your EV with a
> portable genset,
>>> please do
>>> our lungs (and yourself) a favor and don't bother
> with the EV,
>>> just
>>> keep driving your ICE.
>>>
>>>
>>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>>> EV List Assistant Administrator
>>>
>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = =
>>> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while
> you're on
>>> vacation, or
>>> switch to digest mode? See how:
> http://www.evdl.org/help/
>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = =
>>> = Note:
>>> mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will
> not reach me.
>>> To send
>>> a private message, please obtain my email address
> from
>>> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = =
>>
>
>
> visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com, gadgetsworld.org,
> leftcoastconversions.com
--- End Message ---
