EV Digest 6088
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Discharging in series and charging in parallel
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: ceramic heater core mounting
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Getting the most power out of a forklift motor
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: SEMA Automotive Show in Vegas
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: OT: Yaris heater
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: OT: Yaris heater
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: ceramic heater core mounting
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: OT: Yaris heater
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: OT: Yaris heater
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Vacuum system help
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Input requested on heater assembly
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Motor Vibration
by "Chris Sutton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Vacuum system help
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) High Power Desulfator?
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Vacuum system help
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Input requested on heater assembly
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: [BULK] Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Yaris heater
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) 400A Circuit Breaker
by "Rick Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
An excellent point, but I'm not sure it's quite the same thing. The
articulated (bendy) buses are part of the same structure and they can't be
disconnected. I'm sure the cops would love to find a powered vehicle that's
not licensed. (The car is licensed, but the trailer is not.) Especially if
they found it was remote controlled. <g>
I love the idea of the replaceable power unit on a car. I've seen it
presented previously, years ago. (Electric for town driving, ICE for
freeway/long distance.) The closest I've seen to this is one guy who built
one of the 3 wheel vehicles similar to the Pop-Sci MC car. As you probably
know, that's basically a VW front axle (beetle) with a platform welded to
it. At the rear, a MC (sans front wheel) snuggles in.
He built it so the MC component could be swapped in 20 minutes or less. His
thought was that the MC could be, say, 250CC for city driving, and his 900CC
(I think it was) Suzuki for sports driving. I never heard if he actually
built a 2nd MC to fit the unit. With only a bit of thought, that could as
easily be a e-MC on the back, I'd think.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: EV pusher Trailer
> Many transit buses are that configuration. (The double piece buses
> around here all have the engine in the trailer.)
>
> At 12:21 PM 11/1/2006, Michael wrote:
> >I don't know how he got around the law, but there's one that operates in
> >Eugene OR... street legal.
> >
> > > I think pusher trailers are a great idea. What I'm wondering is, is
it
> > > legal for a trailer to be powered? If that's the case, you could have
a
> > > car
> > > with no engine/motor at all and rely on the pusher trailer to power it
> > > forward... Can this be street legal?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hadn't thought of that, Lee... but it makes sense. It also makes sense
that each charger might vary slightly from the others... so one batt might
not get 100% charge.
I was looking at a way to have the charger(s) switch from pack to pack, but
never found a way to do so. Thus, assuming the chargers were equal, I'd know
up front when one batt was getting weak. (It'd still be blinking while the
others were charged.)
Using a single charger, and only 4 to 6 batts, I'd charge 80% plus with the
bulk charge, then do a weekly charge with a stand alone. It was very manual,
but I'd know up front when one batt took longer than the others. I also
seemed to gain about 5% more charge in the total pack.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Discharging in series and charging in parallel
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > What if I get 26 separate 12 volt battery chargers and connect them
> > individually across each battery and plug them all into a common plug
> > for charging?
>
> Yes, you can do that. The challenge is that now you have 26 chargers. If
> one fails, it leaves a battery dead and you can't drive. Since the
> reliability of a system is the reliability of each part, times the
> number of parts, the system is 26 times more likely to fail than one
> having just one charger.
>
> So, to make this work, you need ultra-reliable chargers. You will also
> need some kind of simple BMS as well, to detect any charger failures.
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
my post from earlier today doesn't seem to have posted.
I did this and it seems to work fine. I left a little open space above the wire
connections to keep the back preassure down since the ceramic element has
about half as much flow through space as the old core. The whole heater plenum
is high temp thermoplastic with the metal parts only on the outside so it
effectively isolates the element electrically if one side happened to contact
it. I posted a couple pics on my EV Album page:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/756
Mike
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:26 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: ceramic heater core mounting
>
>
> I am thinking I seen someone who cut the center out of their original heater
> core and mounted the ceramic core in it?
> I can't rmember where I seen it or how it was mounted. I am thinking of
> doing this and setting it in there with some
> kind of high temp silicone sealer surounding it. Will this work????
>
> Tom
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm totally guessing here, but I'd assume your CVT can keep your motor where
you want its RPM to be... and it doesn't draw more power than a direct (or
geared) drive will do.
On the 2nd point, I haven't found one that has less friction, but there are
new designs out all the time. Most models use belts and so forth, and have
significant friction. The closest low-friction drive I've seen was on a
bicycle... probably undersized for your need.
On the first point, there is usually a way to adjust it mechanically
(different spring tension for instance) but I've not seen one that is fully
adjustable. Ideally, it should also adjust for a need-for-speed as opposed
to cruising speed. That will probably mean some sort of computer (mechanical
or electronic) to control the tranny.
One prob I've seen for most of these drives is that they tend to "upshift"
when load is minimal. Thus, if your drive wheels meet a slick spot and start
to spin, they shift into overdrive... so the wheels *really* spin. On 4
wheel cars, that's not necessarily disastrous... on 2 or 3 wheel vehicles
it's death.
That's just from my limited experience with CVT. BTW, they are now out in
the smallest of Dodge's rigs. They cost the car (despite press releases
saying they'd gained) about 3% on MPG.
----- Original Message -----
From: "john bart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Getting the most power out of a forklift motor
> Im debating on whether to use a CVT on a forklift motor, for a pocket bike
project that i have in the works. Ideally where do i want to keep the motor
rpms at to get the best acceleration, as this is a drag pocket bike. My
idea was that the cvt would help to keep the motor rpms down so as not to
loose torque as rpms increased, i guess that would be keeping it at peak
hp?? Anyways any thoughts on this?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just got back from the SEMA show a couple hours ago, and wow what a show! I
initially walked right by the Phoenix Motor Cars the first time and didn't
think twice about it. When I walked back by I noticed a familiar face, it was
Ed Bagely Jr.! My first thought was what is he doing here? Then, I realized I
had recognized the SUT from somewhere. I got to speak with Ed for a few
minutes, he's a nice guy and was happy to know another EAA member was there. He
then did an on camera interview talking about the vehicle. I'm not sure what
show they did the first one for, but the Speed Channel guys came by after and
talked with him afterwards, so we might be able to expect some Speed Channel
coverage as well.
The SUT itself was pretty cool actually. In full SEMA fashion it has some
somewhat blingy wheels and even a Katzkin interior. Under the hood they had
some batteries right on top of everything so you could take a close look at
them, plus the rest of the pack was up under neath the cab. I found out the
base vehicle was some sort of Korean truck, but they wouldn't say exactly what.
I got their brochure on the vehicle and the batteries. It is front motor rear
wheel drive, AC motor that's liquid cooled along with the inverter. The battery
pack is rated for 35kwh according to the spec sheet I got. They also claim a 10
minute recharge with optional off board charger, a 6.6kw one is on board.
Another thing I saw there which suprised me was a Hybrid Technologies Smart Car
conversion. It was out front and there was no one there to tell me anything
about it so I'm not sure really how or why it was there. The only way I knew
what it was was because they had a big vinyl graphic on the side with "Hybrid
Technologies" and curiously "Dupont Registry" on the side. The fuel filler door
has a 30 amp 4 wire twist lock plug behind it.... ironically they still had the
"diesel fuel only" sticker on the back side of the little door. It was unlocked
so I grabbed one of their brochures from the car. There wasn't much in there
thats not on their web site, what cars they convert etc. Still I was happy to
see it there.
So as a fresh thought in my head, I was thinking maybe next year the EAA could
have some sort of presence at SEMA. There was actually a sizeable crowd around
the Phoenix Motor Cars vehicle when Ed Bagely Jr. was doing his interview. I'd
be willing to help out.
Later,
Ricky
92 Saturn SC conversion
AZ Alt Fuel plate "ZEROGAS"
Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> wrote:
****************************************************************
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:25:41 -0500
From: Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: SEMA Automotive Show in Vegas
Is any one in the Vegas area planning on attending the SEMA Motor Show
in Vegas Oct31-Nov3?
Phoenix Motorcars and Altair nanotechnologies are planning to exhibit
there. Here's a blurb:
The SEMA show will be the debut for the Phoenix Motorcars' electric
sports utility truck (SUT) powered entirely by Altairnano's innovative
NanoSafe nanotitanate batteries. Like its sister vehicle the SUV, that
was launched at the ZEV symposium in September, the SUT will have a
standard range of 130 miles, a charge time of 10 minutes and be capable
of freeway speeds up to 95 mph.
Altair announced: "it has completed 15,000 deep charge/discharge cycles
of its innovative NanoSafe battery cells. Even after 15,000 cycles the
cells still retained over 85% of their original charge capacity. This
represents a significant improvement over conventional, commercially
available rechargeable battery technologies such as lithium ion, nickel
metal hydride and nickel cadmium. These other commercially available
rechargeable batteries typically retain that level of charge capacity
only through approximately 1,000 deep charge/discharge cycles.
The battery cells were tested in Altairnano's labs at 10C (6 minute)
charge and discharge rates. They were deep charged and discharged
meaning they were taken to 100% charge and 0% charge respectively during
the 6-minute cycles. Although tests involved full charges and
discharges, partial charging and discharging of the battery does not
appear to impact the life or the holding charge capacity of the
batteries i.e. they exhibit no memory loss.
In theory, a 15,000 charge cycle life would translate into a battery
that would last greater than 40 years if it was charged daily, as would
be the case in an electric vehicle or plug-in hybrid electric vehicle
environment. However, in practice, other wear and tear factors would
realistically limit the actual life of the batteries to probably 20 years."
Does anyone know the downsides to this battery?
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "MARK DUTKO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Yaris heater
> The Yaris heater is for INSIDE the cabin only and meant to give pre-
> heat before the engine warms up to heat the cabin. It is a 12v core
> that sits on top of the normal heater core inside the car...
>
> Mark
Yes! Exactly what I'm looking for. Do you happen to have a link that
explains it at all?
I *really* need to retrofit my car with something similar. It's impossible
to see out of the windshield until it's defrosted. (Worse car I've seen for
this in 50 years of ever make of car.) It won't defrost in less than 20
minutes at idle... or 1 mile of driving. This happens whenever temps are
only cool... morning temps are below 40 degrees... and worse below 32... and
dumping 1/2 gallon of hot water on the windshield probably isn't a great
idea.
Perhaps I'll install a block heater, but it seems extreme for 30 degree
temps.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is a very interesting point, Roger, and one I hadn't considered. The
various "hybrid" charging trailers and pushers... I hadn't thought of it
like the pollution stations might.
Oregon doesn't have auto inspections, so it totally was out of my thoughts.
I wonder how that'd set with the authorities... maybe as an unregistered
vehicle? What's the fine for that sort of vehicle? In PA, it was towing the
car away. Would they only tow the trailer away? I seem to recall tar
trailers running in PA... and they had to smoke more than most diesel
pushers.
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I'm not sure that anyone has established that there is anything illegal
> about having a self-propelled trailer, they have merely asked if this
> would be an issue, especially if taken to the extreme of having *all* of
> the propulsion in the trailer and none in the vehicle itself.
>
> I'm not sure if this is illegal here (Vancouver, BC), but it would
> certainly pose some ethical questions and would likely become illegal
> fairly quickly due to the impact it might have on our emission testing
> program. Clearly there is no requirement at present for a trailer to be
> brought in for emission testing, and there is (AFAIK) no provision for
> stating a fuel type when registering a trailer. So, there would be
> nothing to prevent me from rigging up a gross polluter as a pusher
> trailer and using it to push a non-powered vehicle around, completely
> circumventing the intent of the emission testing program. While we are
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I sent you a pdf of the toyota 12 v heater- can't you use a ceramic
heater?
On Nov 1, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Michael Perry wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "MARK DUTKO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Yaris heater
The Yaris heater is for INSIDE the cabin only and meant to give pre-
heat before the engine warms up to heat the cabin. It is a 12v core
that sits on top of the normal heater core inside the car...
Mark
Yes! Exactly what I'm looking for. Do you happen to have a link that
explains it at all?
I *really* need to retrofit my car with something similar. It's
impossible
to see out of the windshield until it's defrosted. (Worse car I've
seen for
this in 50 years of ever make of car.) It won't defrost in less
than 20
minutes at idle... or 1 mile of driving. This happens whenever
temps are
only cool... morning temps are below 40 degrees... and worse below
32... and
dumping 1/2 gallon of hot water on the windshield probably isn't a
great
idea.
Perhaps I'll install a block heater, but it seems extreme for 30
degree
temps.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I put a couple images of my heater core frame on the EVAlbum. Its been working
perfectly for a several weeks now. There's some blow by above the ceramic
element because I wasn't sure how much the smaller ceramic element would
increase the back pressure on the fan, since the old heater core was larger in
area. I woul dhave effectively reduced the flow through area by half if I
would have sealed it all up.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/756
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 8:27 am
Subject: ceramic heater core mounting
To: [email protected]
> I am thinking I seen someone who cut the center out of their
> original heater core and mounted the ceramic core in it? I can't
> rmember where I seen it or how it was mounted. I am thinking of
> doing this and setting it in there with some kind of high temp
> silicone sealer surounding it. Will this work????
>
> Tom
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael
Are you sure your problem isn't caused by some kind of malfunction. ( such
as a bad thermostat, of bad heater controls). Before you modify the car,
ask others with the same car if they are having the same problem.
And, what car ( make, model, and year) is it?
Phil
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: OT: Yaris heater
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:44:12 -0800
----- Original Message -----
From: "MARK DUTKO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Yaris heater
> The Yaris heater is for INSIDE the cabin only and meant to give pre-
> heat before the engine warms up to heat the cabin. It is a 12v core
> that sits on top of the normal heater core inside the car...
>
> Mark
Yes! Exactly what I'm looking for. Do you happen to have a link that
explains it at all?
I *really* need to retrofit my car with something similar. It's impossible
to see out of the windshield until it's defrosted. (Worse car I've seen for
this in 50 years of ever make of car.) It won't defrost in less than 20
minutes at idle... or 1 mile of driving. This happens whenever temps are
only cool... morning temps are below 40 degrees... and worse below 32...
and
dumping 1/2 gallon of hot water on the windshield probably isn't a great
idea.
Perhaps I'll install a block heater, but it seems extreme for 30 degree
temps.
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's how they prevent the aux heater from draining the battery:
The auxiliary heater only runs when ALL of the following are true:
1. The engine coolant is cold.
2. The heater control is on max hot,
3. The engine RPM is above 2000 and has been for at least 30 seconds.
Phil
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: OT: Yaris heater
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 19:55:10 -0800
I think it was the Yaris that had the electric heater... recently mentioned
here. Does anyone have a link that explains how that works? I've been
searching and all I find is the diesel pre-heaters, which aren't the same
thing at all. I'm interested in how they run that heater w/o draining the
power batt.
I have a great need for a 2nd heater in my car. I'd rather it ran off batt
power, than off a plug circuit.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
More questions from an EV Wannabe.
Some time ago I asked about creating a vacuum reservoir and why the one
I built was not holding a vacuum.
I have a 2 volt bench power supply connected to my thomas vacuum pump
and switch ev parts sells, in a setup with my vacuum reservoir.
As expected the pump pulls a vacuum, and then shuts off. However there
was a leak somewhere and the pump would com on again in about 1 min.
The list suggested adding a check valve to the system.
I have since received the check valve and gauge that KTA sells.
Adding just the gage to the system, I can see that the pump pulls a
vacuum to -26 on the gage, the system leaks to about -24 and the pump
cycles on. (note: the switch is listed as -20 nominal and not connected
to anything the gauge reads -4 so it may need to be calibrated)
When I add the check valve to the system, the pump can not get a vacuum
reading lower than -24 so the pump never cycles off. If I manually shut
the pump off, the reservoir holds its vacuum which is a good thing, but
now instead of cycling on for a few seconds once a minute, its running
continuously.
I have 12v going to the vacuum switch and then to a relay. The relay
closes the pump circuit. (The circuit powering the pump also has a
rocker switch that allows me to shut off the vacuum manually.)
What am I missing this time?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have put some pictures of my planned heater assembly on my makeshift
web page.
http://webpages.charter.net/belchertownev/
I made a sheetmetal case that the EV parts heater will be bolted to.
This assembly uses the top and bottom from the stocker core.
In particular I would like opinions on the use JB weld to "weld" nuts
to the stock top and bottom, and JB Weld to fasten a thermal switch to
the heater assembly.
The thermal switch is in series with the 12v that supply to the HV
relay package (from KTA) . Also in this circuit is the blower relay
that is stock on the truck and a rocker switch that will be mounted on
the dash.
Thanks for any input.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack Murray wrote:
There is no lack of designs... I just don't see anyone willing to
invest the time and money just to have some other person copy it...
and then have a price war over who will sell it cheapest... Good
for the end consumer, yes, but it isn't for the person that did the
hard work.
Exactly. People are saying in effect, "I want a controller for no more
than what I could buy the raw parts for." That means there is no
incentive for anyone to design it for you.
BTW, I looked it over, where is the buck converter part of it?
I just see it doing PWM on the transistor.
That's all a buck converter is. Here is the basic schematic (view with a
fixed width font).
C1 - One capacitor, which can be the battery if you are willing to
accept lower performance.
D1 - One diode, which if left out causes severe transients and loss of
performance.
S1 - One switch, which can be a transistor, MOSFET, IGBT, SCR, etc.
L1 - One inductor, which can be the motor winding if you are willing
to accept lower performance.
+Vin_________
| |
| / S1 _ _ _
+ _|_ |______| | | |___+Vout
C1 ___ _|_ L1
- | /_\ D1
-Vin___|_____|________________-Vout
The Curtis, Zilla, Auburn, Zapi, etc. controller only contain S1, D1,
and a small C1. They let the batteries and motor provide the bulk of C1
and L1.
Also while I have Lee's attention, my AC controller switches both
the high and low side. The high side transistor uses the body diode
for the motor loop. Why not put the transistor on the high side for
a DC controller so you can use that diode, and not require another
one?
S1 and D1 connect to different places in the circuit (as shown). So, you
need two separate parts.
The above circuit is what the Zilla uses. Motor current flows *out* of
+Vout. The Curtis flips it upside down; the transistor and diode are
interchanged, and the motor connects between +Vin and +Vout. Motor
current flow *into* +Vout. The two are equivalent.
An AC motor controller needs to be able to apply *both* polarities of
motor current, in and out. So, it has *two* transistors and *two*
diodes. It is common to have the transistor and diode in the same
package (with MOSFETs, the diode is there whether you like it or not).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Jim,
I'm still working on the problem. I don't think it is the motor, most
likely the taper-lock/hub is off just a bit.
I talked to a local machine shop guy, and he suggested I bring in the
motor armature and we attach the hub to the shaft and then put the
whole thing on the lathe and true it all up. Then mark things so it
always gets put together the same way.
On 11/1/06, Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey Chris
Sorry if this is late but my list emails are still all
screwed up and I've been to busy to check the
archieves lately. First off have you ran the motor on
the bench? Hows the motor work by itself? and then
with the hub installed? Just to let you know .001 is
just about as good as it gets and I'd be very
surprised if this was the problem in itself.
If you'd like give me a call so we can chat real time
about whats going on and see if we can't find your
problem and whether it's even a motor issue. Try
running the motor on 12 volts and see what it says, 12
volts freespin should get you to about where you're
seeing it rpm wise.
You can reach me at 541-610-7424
Anyway just let me know.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- Chris Sutton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have been trying to track down the source of a
> vibration I believe
> is coming from my 8" ADC Motor. The vibration
> starts around 3k RPMS
> and happens in all gears. I have had my flywheel
> zero balanced, and
> have a new pressure plate and clutch.
>
> Recently I put my dial indicator on the face of the
> flywheel. The
> runout was about .015". No matter what I do, and
> how I try and get
> the taper lock and flywheel installed, I can not get
> rid of this. If
> I rotate the flywheel on the taper lock (bolt in on
> differently), the
> high and low readings always stay with the taper
> lock and shaft of the
> motor, so I assume that the flywheel is true, and
> the error is with
> the taper lock or motor shaft.
>
> I then took the flywheel and taper lock off and put
> the dial indicator
> directly on the motor shaft.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/284377471/
>
> and read a .001" wobble in the shaft.
>
> So, my question is, could this cause the vibration,
> or is there
> potential for error in my measurements?
>
> Any suggestions? Can this be fixed? Is this
> normal?
>
> Chris Sutton
> Seattle, WA
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello John,
> I have since received the check valve and gauge that KTA sells.
>
> Adding just the gage to the system, I can see that the pump pulls a
> vacuum to -26 on the gage, the system leaks to about -24 and the pump
> cycles on.
> <snip>
>
> When I add the check valve to the system, the pump can not
> get a vacuum reading lower than -24 so the pump never cycles off.
I suspect your issue is related to the cracking pressure of the check valve.
The check valve will remain open until there is a pressure differential less
than the cracking pressure for the valve, at which point it will close.
What I think is happening is that the vacuum is pulling around -26", but when
system has been pulled down to around -24", only a 2" pressure differential
exists across the check valve and it "decides" its time to close... and so the
pump continues to run because the vacuum switch hasn't opened because it hasn't
sensed its cut-off pressure, and never will because the pump is now isolated
from the remainder of the vacuum system.
To solve this, you will need to adjust your vacuum switch so that it cuts off
no lower than the point to which your pump can pull (say -26") plus the
cracking pressure of the check valve (ie. if it was 4", for arguments sake,
then you need to adjust your switch to -26" + 4" = -22" -- in truth, a little
higher, less negative that is, to allow for some margin of error to avoid it
bouncing on and off) -- the idea being that your vacuum switch opens before the
check value closes, which will then quickly close when pump turns off and
pressure builds on the pump side.
Since we don't know what the cracking pressure of the check valve is (I
actually asked Ken @ KTA this a couple weeks ago, and he didn't have the figure
handy; I have one of these check valves, but have not yet tested it), what you
are actually going to do is just adjust the vacuum switch until the pump stops
reliably every time. Hopefully, the cracking pressure on the check valve is not
so large that it puts the desired cut-off beyond the range of your vacuum
switch, or makes the braking system less effective -- I don't expect either to
be the case, as when testing with, erm, uncalibrated "Mouth and Lungs 1.0", it
seems to be around the 2-3" mark (and we'd expect it to be around 2", give or
take, based on your having been able to achieve around -24" vs around -26"
previously).
I also note that your vacuum switch appears to have 2" of hysteresis. I have 3
of these switches, and all also have a hysteresis of approx 1.5" - 2", which is
unfortunate given the 3"-4" claimed, as the pump comes on twice as often as it
would otherwise need to if the hysteresis was as spec'd -- unless you have a
really big reservoir, you'll probably find that the pump will cycle with every
brake push. On the flip side, they are a nicely sized unit.
BTW, I felt particularly compelled to reply to you because it was your very
thread of a few weeks back that motivated me to address our frequently cycling
vacuum system. Until that thread, I didn't know just how bad our vacuum system
was in comparison to others; it now holds useful vacuum for over 24 hrs, so...
thanks! :-)
HTH,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just wondering if anyone has used this circuit for
their EV?
http://www.shaka.com/~kalepa/highpower.htm
Not sure if it is necessary or not?
Thanks
____________________________________________________________________________________
Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited
(http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello John,
You need to adjust the differential in the vacuum switch. I have my switch
adjusted so when the vacuum drops to 15 in.hg the pump comes on and when its
gets to 22 in.hg, it turns off.
Some vacuum switches come with a differential adjustments which has two
adjustments. One for the range and one for the cutoff.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:13 PM
Subject: Vacuum system help
> More questions from an EV Wannabe.
>
> Some time ago I asked about creating a vacuum reservoir and why the one
> I built was not holding a vacuum.
>
> I have a 2 volt bench power supply connected to my thomas vacuum pump
> and switch ev parts sells, in a setup with my vacuum reservoir.
>
> As expected the pump pulls a vacuum, and then shuts off. However there
> was a leak somewhere and the pump would com on again in about 1 min.
> The list suggested adding a check valve to the system.
>
> I have since received the check valve and gauge that KTA sells.
>
> Adding just the gage to the system, I can see that the pump pulls a
> vacuum to -26 on the gage, the system leaks to about -24 and the pump
> cycles on. (note: the switch is listed as -20 nominal and not connected
> to anything the gauge reads -4 so it may need to be calibrated)
>
> When I add the check valve to the system, the pump can not get a vacuum
> reading lower than -24 so the pump never cycles off. If I manually shut
> the pump off, the reservoir holds its vacuum which is a good thing, but
> now instead of cycling on for a few seconds once a minute, its running
> continuously.
>
> I have 12v going to the vacuum switch and then to a relay. The relay
> closes the pump circuit. (The circuit powering the pump also has a
> rocker switch that allows me to shut off the vacuum manually.)
>
> What am I missing this time?
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That works, the only thing I like to do, is to screw or bolt the thermo
switch on, so it can be replace easily.
Normally these thermo switches are fasten to the top portion of the heater
case, not to the heater it self.
I also use nut inserts, which are a steel nut which is in-closed in a
aluminum jacket that is inserted into a hole and than install like a pop
rivet with a tool that is supplied with nut inserts. You can get these at
Home Depot.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:06 PM
Subject: Input requested on heater assembly
> I have put some pictures of my planned heater assembly on my makeshift
> web page.
> http://webpages.charter.net/belchertownev/
>
> I made a sheetmetal case that the EV parts heater will be bolted to.
> This assembly uses the top and bottom from the stocker core.
>
> In particular I would like opinions on the use JB weld to "weld" nuts
> to the stock top and bottom, and JB Weld to fasten a thermal switch to
> the heater assembly.
>
> The thermal switch is in series with the 12v that supply to the HV
> relay package (from KTA) . Also in this circuit is the blower relay
> that is stock on the truck and a rocker switch that will be mounted on
> the dash.
>
> Thanks for any input.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another variant of this idea is to use a stock ICE with front wheel drive, and
add an EV motor to a hacked rear wheel drive section. You get a heavy car, but
none of the other disdvantages of the pusher trailer, and you have extended
range when you need it.
--Lawrence
________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Jack Murray
Sent: Tue 10/31/2006 11:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [BULK] Re: EV pusher Trailer
Something similiar I was thinking about was having a car with
exchangeable rear-wheel drive. Use the electric for around town, going
longer distance, swap-in the ICE drive. You back up the car into a
docking station, and it shifts out one drive and shifts in another, and
you drive off. Its really not that crazy an idea, better than having
two cars.
Jack
Bruce wrote:
> I think pusher trailers are a great idea. What I'm wondering is, is it
> legal for a trailer to be powered? If that's the case, you could have a car
> with no engine/motor at all and rely on the pusher trailer to power it
> forward... Can this be street legal?
>
> Lawrence Lile wrote:
>
>>You see EV'ers building ICE pusher trailers to extend their range. What
>>about the other way around? You take a rear end and differential, hack
>>on a motor batteries and controller, and hitch it up to whatever car you
>>want.
>
>
>
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C6FE8B.4B01098A"
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 08:27:36 -0600
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Thread-Topic: [BULK] Re: EV pusher Trailer
thread-index: Acb9fLVH7n5+ocx+QWSGnu2OUOH6IABDlXxQ
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Lawrence Lile--
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Yaris heater
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 08:04:57 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello Michael,
These are cab heaters, that are mounted inside the cab. My heaters which I
have two in addition of the heater core heater, are mounted under the dash
way back by the fire wall.
These are are a ceramic type that is 640 watt on the driver side and a 840
watt on the passenger side.
I pick my up from a auto parts store which are a normal stock item in the
far northern country.
My EV already has a DC-DC-DC-AC inverter system which is driven off the
pilot shaft of the motor which is rated 7kw at 120 VAC 60 Hz and at the same
time provides 14.5 to 16 VDC at 135 amps.
So I use 120 VAC heaters instead of the 12 volt type. This allows me to
select commercial power with a transfer switch (a 2 pole 3 position dash
mounted selector switch) to preheat the cab with out using the on board
inverter.
The one 640 watt heater will pre heat the cab to over 80 degrees in less
than 15 minutes.
Only use the 640 watt heater about 90% of the time last winter. Did not
used the heater core heater, excepted ran the defroster fans, which can
re-circulated the cab heater.
Only have to run these heaters for about 5 minutes while running the EV, or
they may cook you.
To re-circulated the cab heat, I rework the heater doors which are vacuum
control, so it does not bring in only outside air, which is normally done
with a ICE, because these coolent temperature of a engine can get over 220
degrees, so they use outside air to temper it.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: OT: Yaris heater
> I think it was the Yaris that had the electric heater... recently
> mentioned
> here. Does anyone have a link that explains how that works? I've been
> searching and all I find is the diesel pre-heaters, which aren't the same
> thing at all. I'm interested in how they run that heater w/o draining the
> power batt.
>
> I have a great need for a 2nd heater in my car. I'd rather it ran off batt
> power, than off a plug circuit.
>
>
From: "Rick Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: 400A Circuit Breaker
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 08:43:39 -0600
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Language: en-us
Hey everyone, just thought I would let you know that my boss had me list a
400A Square D breaker on E-bay. Figured I would give everyone the heads up
if you were looking. It is an old model because it has been on the shelf
for a while but brand new. Listing ID is 320043573520
If you have any questions please ask otherwise happy ev-ing!
Regards,
Rick Todd
Peterson Electric Panel Mfg. Co.
Department of Engineering
5550 McDermott Dr.
Berkeley, IL 60163
Phone (708) 449-2270
Fax (708) 449-2269
Website www.petersonpanel.com
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 12:06:03 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
> Mike Chancey wrote:
> > Interesting timing on this. I was just commenting to several other
> > EVers about the gap between the Curtis and Zilla, and the potentially
> > limited availability of either one. If either Curtis or Otmar decide to
> > follow other priorities, we could soon find ourselves in a serious
pinch.
>
> That is indeed close to the root of the problem. Making controllers for
> on-the-road EVs is not a good business. Sales will be very low. This
> virtually guarantees they will be hand-made, and price will be high.
> EVers have very high expectations, are very hard on controllers, and
> notorious cheapskates; there will be lots of complaining about price,
> lots of warranty returns, and lots of customer support.
> Well, my two watts worth;Doesn't Otmar have PILES of orders? Well, a
relatively small fry thing to, say, General Murders, orders for trux, or
something like that. And WhatEVer happened to Otmar's Help Wanted Ad? He was
looking for somebody to stuff boxes, as Rich Rudman sez. Can't believe there
isn't SOMEBODY able to do this, for a living? Maybe Otmar just doesn't pay
very well? But, think of it? If he hired a few guyz to do the Zillas, he,
Otmar, could almost live a normal life, with a few daze off as needed.He
could stop by the "plant" wield a soldering iron as needed?I guees if I
lived in Corvallis OR I would go down and help him out now an' again,
myself.I would volunterr just to learn something about how the damn things
are made!
> Think of it from the point of view of a businessman; why SHOULD he build
> controllers? No one has provided any reasons why he should bother!
Or Electric cars, anyhow. I certainly don't expect, although it would
be nice,to actually see income, however humble, for my, hell, OUR efforts
into EV's. I would make a lousy CEO, looking first for the General Good from
my stuff. I want a Freedom and a Sunrise to fill my garage, but I'll go
toward the rear of the line, to see folks get their EV grins, first.OK I
speak from a advantage point as I HAVE a modest pension from Amtrak(Why do
ya think their fares are so high<G>?)Just a doo gooder at heart.
My two trains worth.
Bob
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.21/511 - Release Date: 11/1/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
