EV Digest 6091
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: S-10 EV Battery Replacement?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Vacuum system help
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Pusher Trailer
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV Needed for Photo Shoot near Aliso Viejo, CA
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV Controllers Manuf. Side
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV Controllers Manuf. Side
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...an' Stuff!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Vacuum system help
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: brrr cold zero F today
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) 1993 S10 conversion for sale in Sacramento
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Adjustable Vacuum switch source
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Is 5ma a ground fault?
by Mike Swift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Tony Furr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Pickup truck drag
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: OT: Yaris heater
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Pickup truck drag
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Trojan 6V-AGM
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Zapi Controllers, SepEx design
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Adjustable Vacuum switch source
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello John
I would not say the S-10 EV came to a dead end. EVbones put a lot of them
back in service with the NiMH batteries and is help keeping them in service.
Making another battery tray could be done to accommodate other size
batteries. It would not be easy an easy fix. When you consider the cost of the
batteries and the time and materials I would call Jeff first.
Don
In a message dated 11/2/2006 6:30:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'm curious as to whether a replacement was ever determined for
the Panasonic VRLA batteries originally in the 97 S-10EV. Is that still
a no-go without seriously hacking the truck? Sorry for not replying
directly to the post shown below from the archives but it pre-dates
my list membership. It seems a shame that another factory EV has become
a dead end.
John
*********************************************
RE: S-10 oem on eBay
What everyone else said. Basically they're a wierd size battery that is
no
longer available, and the box has the thermal management integrated in
to it,
plus sensors going to individual batteries. Granted it should be
possible to
possibly make the BMS happy with something else, having seen the battery
box out
of one of these it would be quite a feat to get it all to work happily.
I foregot their name, but someone bought the last one off eBay with the
battery box all hacked up where someone had tried making their own
battery box
arrangement and last I heard he was talking with EVBones about possibly
getting
a stock box to try and put it back together.
Deffinitely not an easy backyard project.
Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Remind me what is wrong with replacing the original Panasonic VRLA
batteries with other SLA, either gel or AGM chemistry?
The specs http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/eva/chvs10.pdf tell me
that the pack is only 48 Ah at C/2 rate and it has 40-60 miles
range with lead (and careful, constant speed driving).
This can easily be achieved again by a battery replacement,
I do not see why the truck would not be usable as is with
fresh batteries. (Saves a lot of money ;-)
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Ricky Suiter
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 12:53 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: S-10 oem on eBay
This will be interesting to see how much it goes for. Since the
batteries
are dead and the PbA batteries are no longer available about the only
option
with this would be to just ship it to EVBones and have a NiMH retrofit
done.
I've talked with Jeff and they said these trucks are so heavily
integrated
there's almost no chance you could ever put any other battery in there
other
than what's supposed to be in there.
At least the seller is being honest. There is another owner of one of
these trucks locally who I think was the original owner and he put
50,000
miles on the original PbA pack before it finally was done. He did this
by
never taking it below 50%. This was a few years ago I saw the truck
right
before they got a new pack, so I'm guessing it must have been one of the
last lead packs obtainable right at the end of the EV1 support.
Dang it looks like it's in good shape otherwise.
Mike Ellis wrote:
He posted his response, they batts are dead.
So tempting.
-Mike
On 4/10/06, Jim Coate wrote:
> 1997 S-10 EV on eBay in Holland, MA:
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4629840591
>
> As a 1997, it would have been built with PbA batteries, so I think the
> posted range was optimistic in '97, and very optimistic now if it
still
> has the original 9 year old pack in it. I have sent a question to the
> seller asking if the batteries have been replaced. The truck itself
> looks to be nice. These finds always leave me wondering where the
truck
> has been hiding for the past 9 years.
>
>
> --
> Jim Coate
> 1970's Elec-Trak's
> 1997 Solectria Force
> 1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
> 1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
>
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thursday, November 2, 2006, at 01:28 AM, Claudio Natoli wrote:
Hello John,
I have since received the check valve and gauge that KTA sells.
Adding just the gage to the system, I can see that the pump pulls a
vacuum to -26 on the gage, the system leaks to about -24 and the pump
cycles on.
<snip>
When I add the check valve to the system, the pump can not
get a vacuum reading lower than -24 so the pump never cycles off.
I suspect your issue is related to the cracking pressure of the check
valve.
<snip>
To solve this, you will need to adjust your vacuum switch so that it
cuts off no lower than the point to which your pump can pull (say
-26") plus the cracking pressure of the check valve (ie. if it was 4",
for arguments sake, then you need to adjust your switch to -26" + 4" =
-22" -- in truth, a little higher, less negative that is, to allow for
some margin of error to avoid it bouncing on and off) -- the idea
being that your vacuum switch opens before the check value closes,
which will then quickly close when pump turns off and pressure builds
on the pump side.
<snip>
The only adjustable part of the switch looks to be the brass screw.
Which direction would I rotate it to change the cut off point in the
direction I need?
Any idea how many turns are necessary to drop the cutoff point 1 inch?
BTW, I felt particularly compelled to reply to you because it was your
very thread of a few weeks back that motivated me to address our
frequently cycling vacuum system. Until that thread, I didn't know
just how bad our vacuum system was in comparison to others; it now
holds useful vacuum for over 24 hrs, so... thanks! :-)
HTH,
Claudio
You're welcome.
I'm very glad to hear a question I brought up helped someone else.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's not a vehicle, it's a trailer. You can't drive the trailer by itself.
If they allow you to register it as a trailer, then it;s a trailer and
unless they add a law specifing that trailers can't push, it's legal.
I dont believe any state in the union, or any country in the world has a
list of things trailers are specifically allowed to do and makes it ilegal
to have any trailer not on the list.
>> There aren't enoung pusher trailers around for lawmakers to notice. In
>> fact it's entirely possible that not a single congressmen has ever heard
>> of them.
>>
>> SInce they don't generally sit around trying to think up laws to prevent
>> things that haven't demonstrated any problems, let alone things they
>> never
>> heard of, I doubt there is a law anywhere about them.
>
> I think your last point is the one that could make them illegal, at least
> here. Any vehicle not specified in statutes is, by definition, illegal.
> <sigh> I'd think you could get away w/ it for nearly forever, though. What
> officer is going to think to stop you for hauling a VW trailer around?
>
> But it would be interesting what would happen in states that have
> pollution inspections. Would it require inspection?
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> Hi All, A beutiful young environmentally bent model from Southern
>> California needs an EV for a photo shoot this coming Saturday in Aliso
>> Viejo. I know this is short notice. Anyone with a very clean
>> photogenic EV please contact Jon through her My Space web site.
>> www.myspace.com/genre
>
> Funny, she doesn't look like she's 77 years old....
Ahh, you missed the part where she is a vampire ;-)
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: EV Controllers Manuf. Side
> >Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> >
> > Developing controllers costs money, often quite a bit of it. The guys
> > that build controllers have say that when you start to design a
controller
> > you get an empty 5lb coffee can. When the can is full of burned out
> > silion, your design should just about be finished.
> >
> > Silicon in those quanties can get a bit pricey. The folks that design
the
> > controllers usually want to recoup at least the cost of the silicon, and
> > if you're going to do that, you might as well get back some cash for
your
> > time.
> >
> > Even when you have the layout and schematics, there usually a bit of art
> > involved in building the controllers. THat usually means that the
> > designer or someone trained by them must assemble the controller, they
> > usually want to get paid for their time too.
> >
> Designing reliable electric vehicle controllers is no easy task. The
> customer wants all the options: lotsa current capability, voltage to 350
> volts, instant precharge, adjustable motor current, adjustable battery
> current, throttle protection, motor voltage limit, over speed protection,
> and can you throw in a tach circuit, too? And the customer wants the EV
> controller in a small package, able to take the hot summer Tucson heat.
> They want it now, and they want it cheap.
>
> Yep, that's the way it is in the EV manufacturing field. I've been
> building EV components for over twenty years now, including controllers in
> the 80's:
>
> http://www.russcoev.com/history.html
>
> Back twenty years, controllers had a maximum frequency of about 4000 hz.,
> due to the current power switches available: Darlington transistors. The
> Motorola transistors cost $26, had very slow switching rates; ten
> microseconds storage time was the norm. The "Curtis Squeal" was prevalent
> in all transistor controllers.
>
> Today's customers require a silent controller. Silence means switching
> above the audible hearing range, around 15 kHz. But, silence isn't golden
> in controller design. The current IGBT's can be switched at 15 kHz, but
> requires not only proper electronic design but proper component layout to
> avoid problems caused by magnetic induced fields wrecking havoc at 800
> amps.
>
> Assuming the EV controller designer succeeds in a successful controller,
> parts cost and procurement can be insurmountable goals to achieve. The
> typical controller using IGBT modules will use 300, 400, or 600 amp dual
> modules, costing from $200 to $400 each. Two or three modules will be
> required. The modules are produced from "unobtainable $$ siliconix"; the
> translation: Very expensive, none in stock. Delivery is currently running
> four to six months.
>
> With such long delivery times, it's only practicable to order a large
> enough quantity to make perhaps 100 controllers. At two modules per
> controller costing $250 each, that's a cool $50,000 for IGBT's. And the
> desirable film bus capacitors have a 40 week lead time. Better get some
> of them, too, at about $200 per controller. That's another $20,000. So
> far, $70,000 just for the long lead time components for 100 controllers.
>
> That's gonna require a second on the house. And payments of just over
> $1000 per month. Better apply for that night job at Home Depot. And what
> about all the other parts for that controller? Just add some $$ and some
> more $$.
>
> Six months down the line when the parts arrive, controller production can
> begin. But, suppose in the mean time, another company started producing
> complete controllers for half your proposed price? Or, once the
> controllers are in the field, they take the Corbin route, and fail? It's
> happened before. Damon and the Auburn boys both made good controller, but
> failed to establish a profitable business.
>
> It's hard enough to design a reliable controller. The business risk are
> many. The monetary cost are extremely high. And, unfortunately, the loss
> of profit and risk of losing everything in your life are great.
>
> And that's the other side of the controller story.
>
> Russ Kaufmann
> RUSSCO Engineering
> Now In Grants Pass, Oregon
>
> The Other PFC Charger With Built In GFCI
>
> Hi Russ;
Thanks for the Controller tuitorial. Sigh. Volume, volume! I can see
why you don't want to order stuff by the carload, well, nowadaze Truckload.
Are ya making any stuff, today? Like Chargers if you don't offer
controllers?I guess squeally ones are easier to make than the faster
switching stuff in favor today?Looking in side a Curtis, with all the little
components, they were cheaper, than a real modile to handle power, they were
built as though hand labor was free. As Lee Hart said, like attaching a
bumper to a car with several hundred no. 6 size threaded self tapping screws
instead of several hardened half inch bolts.Soldering the Stuff to the heat
sinks on aDCP Raptor would be a sporting challange to easy assembly.
especially to get-a-bigger-hammer mechanical guyz, like me<g>!Yeah! I'll
fire up the Torch, melt it into a smoking ruin.Weld the Cowcatcher (pilot)
onto a locomotive, easy! Ya mean I hafta unsolder/solder all THAT? hssssh!
MY two dead diodes worth
Bob
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.23/513 - Release Date: 11/2/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Designing reliable electric vehicle controllers is no easy task. The
> customer wants all the options: lotsa current capability, voltage to 350
> volts, instant precharge, adjustable motor current, adjustable battery
> current, throttle protection, motor voltage limit, over speed
protection,
> and can you throw in a tach circuit, too? And the customer wants the EV
> controller in a small package, able to take the hot summer Tucson heat.
> They want it now, and they want it cheap.
>
Reminds me of a Billy Connolly clip (warning: F-bombs!):
http://www.aquilaonline.co.za/images/sounds/demands.mp3
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
> Jack Murray wrote:
> >> Otmar gives the schematic for a Curtis controller on his website
>
> Eric Poulsen wrote:
> > A schematic that says right on it that it's for reference, and
> > probably wrong, and has several question marks on it near components.
> > Additionally, there's no PCB layout, or any other indication of the
> > necessary physical layout.
> > You're ignoring altruism... I've personally given away my hard work
> > in software development, to whomever might want it. For free.
>
> That's great! So why don't you pick up the ball, and finish tracing out
> Otmar's Curtis schematic, and add the PCB layout and mechanical layout?
> -- But WHY would ya WANT to replicate a Curtis Controller?????While you're
in there, design it with faster switching, so it will run cooler, quieter,
with bigger diodes and power modules. Put some damn HEAT SINKS on your
Kurtis Kicker, so it will run cooler, maybe a (Gasp!) fan, so it will
soldier on in Tuson or Phoenix. Seems that electronics have progressed in
the last 10 years or so. Thinking ICE Stuff, would ya really want to, say
use a flathead Ford V-8 in a today car. It was a magnificent engine in it's
time, 70 years ago..but. Gees! We woulda KILLED for a Curtis 30 years ago!
Sold our soles to the devil or whoEVer for a Zilla, a Rapter a PFC Whatever,
a Warp motor.I remember the Squalid State crap of 35 years ago. Talk about
NOISE ? Growls ,Creaking door ,Sevcon SCR Controllers we used at
EFP.Electric Fuel Propulsion, back in the daze. The sporting chance the damn
thing would lock ON if it mis- communtated? Off ya went, with 144 volts and
a 27 HP motor, always a hoot with a direct drive car! Clotheline to pull the
big ass fuse with a cheery ZORCH, lighting up the sky, at night!Ah Memories!
Ya got it made nowadaze, Sports fans!
My blown Cursit worth
Bob
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.23/513 - Release Date: 11/2/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Look for us to be offering the
products you have been looking for
When?
could you give us any more info on the batts?
-Tehben
On Nov 1, 2006, at 10:56 AM, Reverend Gadget wrote:
Before you get a group together, I'm testing these
batteries. http://www.zqpt.com/english/yysl.asp.
I'm working to negotiate the price way down. I'm also
working to secure some major financial backing to
accomplish this. Left Coast has been very quiet lately
because our main focus has been getting the company
funded properly. Look for us to be offering the
products you have been looking for. 'nuff said.
Gadget
Maybe.
I guess there is a discount after 50 units, not sure
how much?
If we could start a list of people who are interested.
-Tehben
On Oct 31, 2006, at 1:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am and have posted several times the information
from Valence.
Don
In a message dated 10/31/2006 12:10:53 PM Pacific
Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Are there other people interested in a Valence
group buy? The rep
told me
of about 40 to 50% discount with high volume.
JJ
On 8 Oct 2006 at 11:29, GWMobile wrote:
I encourage to actual get the batteries you want
from the start
and
not listen to those who say start with what you
don't want and
upgrade later.
I was going through some old unread messages and I
came across this
note. It may be that this has already been
addressed; if so
disregard
this.
I think the above advice is inappropriate for new
EV hobbyists,
unless
"the batteries you want" are either very sturdy
and economical
(such as
golf car batteries), or else the battery love of
your life is a
complete system with charger and BMS (and
preferably an
integrated
controller or at least a cooperative one too).
There are very
few such
integrated systems, though my impression is that
the Valence comes
pretty close (at a substantial price).
There's a certain amount of skill and art to
battery
maintenance. It's
a great tradition for beginning EVers to destroy
their first
batteries
in the process of learning these skills. Do you
want to kill a
$1500
pack, or a $15,000 one?
One thing you can also remember is you can buy a
5500 watt gas
generator on wheels at pep boys for about $300.
With a trailer
hitch
you would have unlimited mileage in your
electric for longer
trips.
Three problems, in random order (you decide what
the order of
importance
is to you) :
1. You'll be polluting to a gross degree, probably
on the order of
HUNDREDS of times as much as your ICE. You will
also burn more
fuel
than you would in the ICE.
2. Unless you have a very light, efficient EV, a
5kW genset won't
keep
you going down the road at highway speeds. Most
conversions need
12-15kW to maintain 55-60 mph.
3. The cheap gensets I've seen at the dollar stores
at about this
price
appear to be crude and poorly made. They're apt
to be barely
adequate
for use a few times a year. Use one of these,
and you're likely
to
drop your car's reliability to about that of a
Model T. Better
make
sure your road service card is paid up.
It's possible to build a somewhat clean, somewhat
efficient,
reasonably
reliable series hybrid (though it will almost
impossible for a
homebuilder to make one as clean, efficient, or
reliable as a
factory
ICE, let alone a factory hybrid). But it is a
lot of work, and
the
result won't look anything like these cheap
portable gensets. If
you're considering running your EV with a
portable genset,
please do
our lungs (and yourself) a favor and don't bother
with the EV,
just
keep driving your ICE.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello John,
> The only adjustable part of the switch looks to be the brass screw.
> Which direction would I rotate it to change the cut off point in the
> direction I need?
>
> Any idea how many turns are necessary to drop the cutoff point 1 inch?
If you've still got your gauge installed, you'll quickly see what is required
(sorry, don't have a switch handy at present).
Even without the gauge, with your pump running continuously, you'll quickly
discover the right direction -- its the direction that turns the pump off :-)
If I didn't have any instrumentation, I'd start with a small (say, quarter)
turn, and then make expanding turns in opposite directions.
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:51 AM 10/31/2006, Jim Walls wrote:
Tim Humphrey wrote:
I wonder if you could use a waterbed heater as a floor mat.
I would recommend AGAINST using a waterbed heater. They are not
designed to operated without a large heatsink (the ton of
water). If operated without that heatsink, they will overheat and
fail very quickly.
What about those heating pads for animal cages? They have GOT to be
pretty durable!
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
What do you want it to do?
SBCs are ok for displaying stuff, but you would generally not use it
for a low-level task like generating PWM or reading current.
The low-level stuff is the domain of microcontrollers.
Microcontrollers cost next to nothing (like a $5 chip), require only a
few external components, take very little power, and are far more
reliable. They are easy to seal against the environment.
...
Danny
This might be a crazy idea, but would you be able to *leverage* the
existing work done by the MegaSquirt engineers and community?
Schematics: http://www.bgsoflex.com/v22/megasquirt_ShemV2.2.pdf
This is a very well testing, easy available DIY EFI controller in kit
and fully assembled and tested form. It has a TPS, temperature, and tach
input among others. It also has two PWM outputs as well as various relay
and communication output options....
Could the two PWM outputs be used to drive two LARGE MOSFET modules with
a current sense added? (they currently drive two onboard IRFIZ34Ns -
how about an EV daughter board instead) Then it could just be a matter
of writing new EV firmware, with the help of the well-versed folks
currently developing this fine system.
It's not perfect, but it's built and tested, and has a great support
system with quite a few dealers already in place.
Call me nuts, but I would think it might just work - can a few EE's
chime in perhaps?
~ Peanut Gallery ~
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To get a bit more conrete, as a non-EE I´d like to hear even rough
estimates how much time and money would it take to design and test a
controller?
Osmo
Peter VanDerWal kirjoitti 2.11.2006 kello 22.37:
Altruism is great, especially when all it costs you is time.
Writing software requires nothing but your time.
Developing controllers costs money, often quite a bit of it. The guys
that build controllers have say that when you start to design a
controller
you get an empty 5lb coffee can. When the can is full of burned out
silion, your design should just about be finished.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Apparently another HAM who has a converted S10 but is selling
it on Ebay, item 250045160230
He was also active in SARC (Vice President):
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ke6mff
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
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I'm desparate for an adjustable vacuum switch. Any sources out there?
Mine has died in a shorted condition and the 5 amps to run the vacuum
pump is just a waste of power. 1/4" male pipe thread is best, but 1/8"
will do.
Thanks,
Mike
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Yes Chris, five mili-amps is the limit at which a GFI must trip the
breaker. This is set to give a safety factor of 4 over the current
needed to cause hart fibrillation if the current is passing through
the chest.
On Nov 2, 2006, at 8:15 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: November 2, 2006 6:58:04 PM PST
To: [email protected]
Subject: Is 5ma a ground fault?
This evening I had some problems with my USE S10 truck (302v BB600
NiCD pack, 30ah). It would not power to Ready, was faulting out. A
check with my laptop was showing an ISO fault.
So I did a quick check with a VOM on the pre-charge pins of the
battery pack. From B+ to frame ground I saw 280 volts, from B- I
saw about 35 volts. Not too unusual, but then I switched the meter
to ma.
To keep bad things from happening, the pre-charge line is fused to
2a with a 600v AIR DC fuse. I figured if there was a dead short in
there, the fuse would blow as the meter exploded. For safety I
donned a pair of dry leather welding gloves and put on a face mask.
Tiny spark when connected to ground, meter read 4-5ma. Definately
odd, but is a 5ma leak enough to constitute a danger/is that more
than just capacitance in a large battery pack? This is a flooded
NiCD pack, BB600's.
Thanks for any thoughts.
Chris
Mike Swift
Two things only the people anxiously desire—bread and circuses.
Decimus Junius Juvenalls
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I recently purchased a Vicor Megamod DC-DC converter (VI-26L-IU) from
surplus in hopes of using it with my 144v system. The sales spec
claimed "up to 300v", but the paperwork with the unit says the low-
line is 199v and a high-line of 399v (output voltage is 28v). A call
to Vicor support confirmed this won't work w/ my 144v system since it
will not power on below low-line.
So it won't work for me, which is a shame because this is a nice
looking unit. It's new in the box and has never been installed. If
anyone is interested, contact me off-list. If you're looking for a
unit like this, you can get a great deal while helping me save the
15% restocking fee they will charge me for the return.
tony furr
76 lancia scorpion EV
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Hi all,
I was just going thru a book I just got "Race Car Aerodynamics, Designing for
Speed", by Joseph Katz. On page 15 there is a brief description of 'The Impact
of Racing Aerodynamics on Production Cars' -
"One typical example of this group is the 1995 Dodge Ram truck, shown in Fig
1.25. Note the rounded nose, which in addition to improving its appearance also
helps to reduce front drag. The problem with most pickup trucks , though is the
large base drag created by the cabin and the tailgate. The drag coefficient of
this Dodge Ram is about Cd=0.47, which can be improved by dropping the tailgate
or even covering the bed. Some aftermarket products are aimed at improvements
in this area and nets replacing the tailgate can create noticeable effects. The
tailgate itself can also be turned into an airfoil, and when rotated
horizontally can add to the rear downforce and at the same time reduce drag".
According to this book, if you open the tail gate you reduce drag...
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
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This is a case where having an air conditioner is mandatory. An AC unit
will clear your windshield within 5 seconds. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Yaris heater
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MARK DUTKO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 7:59 PM
> Subject: Re: OT: Yaris heater
>
>
> > The Yaris heater is for INSIDE the cabin only and meant to give pre-
> > heat before the engine warms up to heat the cabin. It is a 12v core
> > that sits on top of the normal heater core inside the car...
> >
> > Mark
>
> Yes! Exactly what I'm looking for. Do you happen to have a link that
> explains it at all?
>
> I *really* need to retrofit my car with something similar. It's impossible
> to see out of the windshield until it's defrosted. (Worse car I've seen
for
> this in 50 years of ever make of car.) It won't defrost in less than 20
> minutes at idle... or 1 mile of driving. This happens whenever temps are
> only cool... morning temps are below 40 degrees... and worse below 32...
and
> dumping 1/2 gallon of hot water on the windshield probably isn't a great
> idea.
>
> Perhaps I'll install a block heater, but it seems extreme for 30 degree
> temps.
>
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One thing that will work quite well is using a two motor and controller
setup. You can have a 72v system using two motors and controllers. For
instance if you used two L91's or even A89's with two 72v Altrax you will
have something as powerful as a Curtis 1231 for less money & it's available.
The adapter is easier to build because you can ballpark the shaft in a way
that can't be done on a direct coupling. The plate will hold the motors out
and under beside or over the transmission..The resulting chain drive
coupling can easily be adjusted for good centering of the input shaft.
Lawrence Rhodes......
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Far, far from appropriate. I don't think you have a great picture of
what's in a microcontroller.
Say I've got a PIC18F1320 or 18F4620. I can even use a C compiler for
that. It can do just about anything. If I need to read a throttle pot
and output a PWM based on that, this is only tens of lines of code.
There's a hardware analog-to-digital converter which is perfect for
reading a pot. You write a few registers and read the value in the
result register when done. There's also a hardware PWM, you write a
timer register and a period register and it makes the PWM signal.
Let's see- chip, +5v reg ($3 for a good one), reg caps $1.00, Vdd/Vss
ceramic cap $0.10, 10MHz xtal & 2 stability caps $1.50, Vpp resistor
$0.05, programming header plug $0.50. Honest to god, that's a complete
microcontroller system. Nothing you don't need. You need a programmer,
the end-all cadillac of programmers is $99. A chip can be programmed
and reprogrammed many thousands of times.
Nothing on an EFI board or its code are useful or worth trying to
"convert". The fact that it has working code is irrelevant since it's
for a completely different task.
Actually, in the industry, even if it was already a "working" design for
something very close to what you want to do, most would write their own
code. It's not at all hard. For one, nobody's code is flawless. Even
assuming Microchip's own code is good is a somewhat "inaccurate"
assumption; I've seen serious errors before. Maintaining or modifying
someone else's code is often a serious problem, depending on how well
they structure and document it. I have written exemplary code before
that is very easy to maintain. It's different than just writing a
program to get the job done.
A tough part here is the gate drivers for the power transistors, and
appropriate isolation. Transistors dissipate no power when off and only
a "little" power when fully on. However, any lingering in the
transistion between them generates enormous heat. A slightly misshaped
gate signal can cook transistors in seconds or even milliseconds. And
making a PCB that can handle a kiloamp is a REALLY tricky job.
I believe 2 controllers are necessary, one to collect frame-ground
signals and the other to drive the transistors. A simple optically
isolated serial link between them.
I can help anybody with the controller and the code. Easy to use temp
sensors, basically foolproof Watchdog Timers, failsafes if the
controller on the other side of the link fails, etc.
Basically what I'm saying is the controller & its code are not a problem
at all. The high current hardware side is the problem!
Danny
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
This might be a crazy idea, but would you be able to *leverage* the
existing work done by the MegaSquirt engineers and community?
Schematics: http://www.bgsoflex.com/v22/megasquirt_ShemV2.2.pdf
This is a very well testing, easy available DIY EFI controller in kit
and fully assembled and tested form. It has a TPS, temperature, and
tach input among others. It also has two PWM outputs as well as
various relay and communication output options....
Could the two PWM outputs be used to drive two LARGE MOSFET modules
with a current sense added? (they currently drive two onboard
IRFIZ34Ns - how about an EV daughter board instead) Then it could just
be a matter of writing new EV firmware, with the help of the
well-versed folks currently developing this fine system.
It's not perfect, but it's built and tested, and has a great support
system with quite a few dealers already in place.
Call me nuts, but I would think it might just work - can a few EE's
chime in perhaps?
~ Peanut Gallery ~
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but according to wind tunnel tests (see www.cartalk.com) or track tests (myth
buzters) the tail gate up is better. Remember ANYONE can write ANYTHING in a
book.
via Treo
David Hrivnak
-----Original Message-----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subj: Pickup truck drag
Date: Fri Nov 3, 2006 4:19 am
Size: 1020 bytes
To: <[email protected]>
Hi all,
I was just going thru a book I just got "Race Car Aerodynamics, Designing for
Speed", by Joseph Katz. On page 15 there is a brief description of 'The Impact
of Racing Aerodynamics on Production Cars' -
"One typical example of this group is the 1995 Dodge Ram truck, shown in Fig
1.25. Note the rounded nose, which in addition to improving its appearance also
helps to reduce front drag. The problem with most pickup trucks , though is the
large base drag created by the cabin and the tailgate. The drag coefficient of
this Dodge Ram is about Cd=0.47, which can be improved by dropping the tailgate
or even covering the bed. Some aftermarket products are aimed at improvements
in this area and nets replacing the tailgate can create noticeable effects. The
tailgate itself can also be turned into an airfoil, and when rotated
horizontally can add to the rear downforce and at the same time reduce drag".
According to this book, if you open the tail gate you reduce drag...
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
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Does anyone have experience with these batteries?
Nearly identical to T-105s in size/weight. Only available with APW posts
(marine dual terminals). I'm thinking better acceleration than T-105s with
similar range. They list for ~$190 from places that sell T-105s for $150!
Possible issues:
1) Finding regs for 6V AGMs (can a Rudman reg be modified for 6V
operation?)
2) Charging/equalizing problems using 2x6V modules with 12V regs
3) Cost
4) Cost
My current 114V EV could be upgraded to 156V by changing the contactor,
but with 12V batteries that means buddy pairs, parallel strings, or a
single string of 13 batteries and a serious range penalty. Hopefully my
current pack will last until lithiums are affordable - not!
I'm planning a pickup conversion (if I can ever find a good used Toyota)
and was considering AGMs to avoid watering. A string of 26 would be 156V
and 1600+ pounds with only 13 regs. No parallel strings or 300V parts
required.
Thoughts?
Adrian
.
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Hi Lee etc,
Having a SepEx winding doesn't mean the field is weaker, ExI=P so if you
reduce the current and increase the voltage across the field coil, the
resulting power or field flux is the same. When I tried a series motor on my
Cushman measuring 6V @ 300A (1800W) and tested with a SepEx coil 72V @ 25A
(1800W) the resulting field flux is the same. Nominal operating power is lower
and usually at 1/3rd coil voltage during cruising. (A shunt has a thinner coil
for full voltage all the time).
The caveat with SepEx is you can't advance the timing to get better
performance in the forward direction.
Have a renewable energy day,
Mark
From: "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected]
Subject: Zapi controllers ? Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 16:19:39 -0500 Plain
Text Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]
(was "Ev Controllers- (n)th option") Jeff Shanab wrote: I think what has
been pointed out as missing is a good, highpower sepex. So the DC hobbiest
can get regen. Jim can rewind the fields for sep-ex. and Lee hart wrote:
> Putting a high-voltage, low-current field winding on a motor is easy. The
> problem is that running it with a weak field will increase arcing. Using
> it for regen, where the current is reversed, increases arcing still more.
> > To do it right, you have to do more to the motor so it will survive >
running with a high or reversed armature current and weak field. This >
requires either movable brush rigging, interpoles, compensation windings, >
or some combination. Zapi makes dc controllers with regen, right? any
experience or stories/prices for those? I saw some converter who (was going
to?) put them in light kit cars, it looked like, and get up to 800 amps or
something, with regen, etc. Not sure what
motors, though. Seth Myers
---------------------------------
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Hello Mike,
Use a Square D vacuum switch, you can either get from a electrical wholesale
supply house or from www.kta-ev.com.
Make sure you get the adjustable one, where you can adjust the differential
and also adjust the high limit.
Comes in a cast aluminum water tight box.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>; "US Electricar"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 12:31 AM
Subject: Adjustable Vacuum switch source
> I'm desparate for an adjustable vacuum switch. Any sources out there?
> Mine has died in a shorted condition and the 5 amps to run the vacuum
> pump is just a waste of power. 1/4" male pipe thread is best, but 1/8"
> will do.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
>
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