EV Digest 6095
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Electric Bajaj
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) IOTA DC/DC VOLTAGE LIMITS?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Lee your BMS anyone else interested?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) xebra test drive
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Pickup truck drag
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Short Range Medium Performance Conversion of an 85 MR2
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Tony Furr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Pickup truck drag
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Pickup truck drag
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Pusher Trailer
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: ceramic heater core mounting
by "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) unsubscribe
by "george.underwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Pickup truck drag
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: IOTA DC/DC VOLTAGE LIMITS?
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Battery Spreadsheet
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Discharging in series and charging in parallel
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: SEMA Automotive Show in Vegas
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Battery Spreadsheet
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Delivery time, was: Pickup truck drag
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Yep,
but 14V 14A is not going to cut it, I'm afraid.
The 12V draw is 10A with just the basic electrical stuff
running; 20A with the lights added and then I have
not yet addressed the vacuum pump, power steering pump,
fans....
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Tony Furr
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 7:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
Thanks for the reply.
The problem is not the output voltage, which could be reduced. It's
the input voltage bottom end. At a low-line of 200vdc, my 144v car
won't start the DC-DC converter.
I picked this up at surplus, so I didn't have the luxury of picking
the exact voltage spec I was looking for. I would love to find a 25P
model for the $50 I paid for this one. Since the sales spec said "up
to 300vdc", I was hopefully optomistic. oh well.
Any high-voltage EVers need a DC-DC converter?
-tony
On Nov 3, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Eric Poulsen wrote:
> Tony Furr wrote:
>> I recently purchased a Vicor Megamod DC-DC converter (VI-26L-IU)
>> from surplus in hopes of using it with my 144v system. The sales
>> spec claimed "up to 300v", but the paperwork with the unit says
>> the low-line is 199v and a high-line of 399v (output voltage is
>> 28v). A call to Vicor support confirmed this won't work w/ my 144v
>> system since it will not power on below low-line.
> Tony, the 26L has a nominal input voltage of 300VDC, and the input
> range is 200 to 400VDC. The output is adjustable from 14V to 30.8V
>
> A 25P would be ideal, but a 252, 251, 25N, or 253 would work.
>
> FWIW, the part # breakdown is as follows. This is incomplete, but
> covers common DC/DC voltages:
>
> Part # format: VI-2XX-XX
>
> First X is input voltage:
> Nominal Range
> 0 12 10-20
> 1 24 21-31
> W 24 18-36
> 2 36 21-56
> 3 48 42-60
> N 48 36-76
> 4 72 55-100
> T 110 66-160
> 5 150 100-200
> 6 300 200-400
> 7 150/300 100-375
>
> Second X is output voltage:
>
> Z 2
> Y 3.3
> 0 5
> X 5.2
> W 5.5
> V 5.8
> T 6.5
> R 7.5
> M 10
> 1 12
> P 13.8
> 2 15
> N 18.5
> 3 24
> L 28
> J 36
> K 40
> 4 48
> H 52
> F 72
> D 85
> B 95
>
> Third X is temp range:
>
> E -10 to 85C
> C -25 to 85C
> I -40 to 85C
> M -55 to 85C
>
> Last X is power (if vout >= 5V)
>
> Y 50W
> X 75W
> W 100W
> V 150W
> U 200W
>
>
>>
>> So it won't work for me, which is a shame because this is a nice
>> looking unit. It's new in the box and has never been installed. If
>> anyone is interested, contact me off-list. If you're looking for a
>> unit like this, you can get a great deal while helping me save the
>> 15% restocking fee they will charge me for the return.
>>
>> tony furr
>> 76 lancia scorpion EV
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I assume they'll adapt their current Bajaj. You can see those at
www.bajajusa.com. Argo's been selling those for a while. They are cute and
very affordable but, w/o doors, a bit breezy. (The pizza delivery in
Portland apparently gets around 78 to 80MPG... and the company doesn't sell
the diesel model.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 10:20 AM
Subject: Electric Bajaj
> http://www.bajajauto.com/press/pressarticles_arc.asp#press9
> I haven't seen one yet. It's been many years.Now we have Xebra which
sounds
> like a Mexican radio station with an extra letter. Lawrence Rhodes.....
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry, I have a 288V nominal pack but here is one data point for the record.
My end of charge voltage is 354 Volts. I have been worried that that
may take the iota out.
The IOTA is connected to the pack with only a fuse, It stays charged and
it goes to sleep nicely.
I have readlighted* a few times and it doesn't hickup.
*redlighted in this context is when I suck the 1/2 dead AGM pack below
10V per module and light up the red LED on all the regs at once(The
reflection of 17 red LED's out of the corner of my eye, a thought it was
police lights, LOL). Put that is still in the 240V range.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Lee
I was looking at your BMS with NiMH batteries in mind now. You might not
remember but a while back I was trying to get you to do a bulk order for use
on
AGM batteries. I would still be willing to buy in quantity for the best
prices and sell at the quantity price break to all who is interested in making
one.
Don Blazer
In a message dated 10/11/2006 7:52:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jack Murray wrote:
> I'm very familiar with NiMH, not so much with Lithium, and in particular
> I'm looking at $6 cells, so the cost to manage them can't be too much or
> its not a good strategy. I agree if you can increase life significantly
> the added cost would be worth it; I'd want to see some real data to back
> it up, double the life seems like a big stretch, maybe if the bad cells
> don't get replaced a double might be possible, but that is somewhat
> trickery by comparing to a worst case.
I built a BMS that scans the 12 batteries in my pack of 12v Concorde
AGMs. Without BMS, most people only get 1-2 years life out these
batteries. With BMS, mine are now over 7 years old, and weak but working.
My BMS check each battery, and then charges each at up to 15 amps for a
time that depends on the voltage differences between them. It does this
while driving, charging, and for a short time when parked.
I had one battery fail (down to 16ah when the rest were 30-40ah). It
took a while before I noticed; the car still drove fine with the bad
battery, because the BMS was spending almost all its time charging it
from the other 11 to "prop it up".
When I did replace it, the new battery had significantly more capacity
than the rest of the old pack. This is usually a problem; the new
battery soon gets "beaten down" because it gets overcharged by the extra
charging needed to bring the older batteries up to "full". But with this
BMS, the new battery survived fine.
Last year, I had a second battery fail. I didn't have any more spares of
the original type, so I replaced it with a newer but smaller AGM. Mixing
battery types is also an invitation for problems; but so far, the BMS
has given each of the (now rather widely mismatched) batteries
appropriate amounts of charging.
Since I balance continuously, batteries with lower amphour capacity get
charged while driving, because their voltage falls faster. This has the
effect that all batteries reach "dead" at about the same time. Thus, it
defeats the "weakest link" effect of having to stop driving with one
dead battery and the rest still with plenty of charge.
So, I'm pretty confident that aggressive battery balancing can
significantly extend the life of a pack.
> In any case, ICE's have to change their oil every few months, maybe we
> can get Jiffy Lube to change their name to Jiffy Cell?
Yes, you could just monitor all the batteries/cells, and replace them
one at a time as needed. But this is very labor intensive. If you have
large numbers of cells/batteries, you'd soon wind up changing them on an
almost continuous basis.
My first EV had a pack of twelve 6v floodeds. As I murdered them from
various forms of ignorance and abuse :-) I would replace them one at a
time. This soon produced a garage full of half-shot batteries with
various things wrong with them, and constantly throwing batteries in/out
to get the best half-good pack. This got old fast!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence ,
This person is looking for a EV expert in the SF area
http://www.xebraworld.com/Julie%20L.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Nov 2006 at 10:55, Rush wrote:
> All of my EVList messages take anywhere from 2 to 3 days to get back
> to me ...
They aren't taking that long to get to me. Check out the headers on your
message -
Delivery-date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 21:08:50 -0600
Received: from metis.sjsu.edu ... for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fri, 03 Nov 2006
21:08:50 -0600
Received: from listproc ... Fri, 3 Nov 2006 19:08:26 -0800 (PST)
Received: from apollo.sjsu.edu ... Fri, 3 Nov 2006 19:07:16 -0800 (PST)
Received: from n054.sc0.cp.net ... Fri, 3 Nov 2006 19:07:14 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] (x added to obfuscate) ...
Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:56:07 +0000
So it appears that metis.sjsu.edu held your message for 2 hours (not sure
why) but nothing like 2 days. Your messages are being distributed to the
list in a timely manner. However, your own mail server may be returning
some mail to the SJSU listproc, causing it to put you on a 48 hour delay.
This can happen when your mail server is overloaded, as with a flood of
spam, for example.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7 Oct 2006 at 11:50, Kip C Anderson wrote:
> I have a strong inclination toward SAFT NiCd simply for the
> longevity reason. In a nutshell, I need some help figuring out whether
> these cells will provide the performance I desire and at what cost.
I'm still going back through some unread messages.
The answer to this depends on whether you are thinking of Saft aircraft
nicads (similar to the BB600 cells several people here are using) or the
more modern Saft nicads designed for EV use, the STM range. They are very
different creatures. The aircraft nicads are roughly comparable with golf
car batteries in specific energy, and have conventional cell-by-cell
watering. The STMs have specific energy over 75% higher than golf car
batteries, and have single-point watering with internal recombination to
reduce watering frequency.
I can't help you with the aircraft nicads but I know something about the
STMs.
These are theoretically available as individual cells (STM1) in 7 sizes from
40ah to 280ah, or as 6v nominal modules (STM5) in 3 sizes from 100ah to
180ah (STM5). I say "theoretically available" because it appears to me that
Saft only stock STM5-100MR(E) modules (presumably because European OEM EVs
use them), and will only supply other sizes and types upon a commitment from
an OEM to purchase a significant quantity. Someone please correct me if you
have recently learned otherwise or found other types in stock.
STM5 modules are of higher specific energy than lead golf car batteries. At
EV currents, they deliver a nominal 48 Wh/kg compared to around 27 Wh/kg for
golf car batteries.
But they are not a high current battery. The more-or-less available
100MR(E) can deliver 200 amps continuously and 500 amps for a few seconds.
In reality it's best to stay to around 100 amps for long periods. If you
draw in excess of 200 amps on a regular basis, you will need to monitor
module temperatures carefully to prevent damage.
This means that to get a reasonably high power battery, you need high
voltage and lots of modules. A 240 volt battery using STM5-100MR modules
will deliver 48kW continously, and a peak of 120kW for a few seconds. It is
thus probably best suited to a medium to high voltage drive system.
Such a battery will weigh 1100 lb (500kg). It will cost about $16,000 and,
if treated properly, should last between 1500 and 3000 cycles. Each cycle
will yield about 21.5kWh; with a typical conversion which uses 250 Wh/mi
this will give you a theoretical range of about 85 miles. So if used to
full range on each cycle it will theoretically deliver between 127,500 miles
and 255,000 miles, for a theoretical cost per mile (not including
electricity) of 6.3 to 12.6 cents.
To be fair you should probably add something to the cost for a fairly
sophisticated charger, since the charge algorithm is moderately complex and
failing to follow it will void the warranty. If you buy the liquid-cooled
version (suffix MRE) you will need a cooling system; otherwise lots of fans.
You will want to monitor temperature carefully. They don't like heat, so
may not be suitable for summer use in Phoenix or some other southern states.
Their charge efficiency is slightly (about 10 percentage points) lower than
that of lead batteries.
OTOH these batteries lose very little capacity in cold weather, are fairly
tolerant of overdischarge, and can be left in any state of charge
indefintely with no harm.
Hope this helps. Sorry to be so late in responding.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Nov 2006 at 11:49, Lee Hart wrote:
> I think what you are asking for is the equivalent of the old Heathkits:
> An electronic product designed and documented so thoroughly that anyone
> could build it, with no prior electronics experience at all.
There are a couple of reasons that Heathkits are no longer available. One
is time; as Americans lost leisure time to lengthening work hours, and found
more interests with which to fill those fewer leisure hours, such hobbies as
electronic kit building lost ground.
But a big reason is that one almost never saved any money building one.
At best the kit price was slightly less than a similar mass-produced unit.
Often, especially as assembly work was more frequently sent to cheap-labor
countries, the kit ended up costing more. Probably 30 years or more ago, a
friend of mine built a Heathkit color television set. He did it for the
experience, not to save money. It cost, IIRC, nearly 30% more than a
similar fully assembled equivalent set at the appliance store.
Heathkits and their cousins from Knight, Eico, and Dynaco gave one a little
experience working with electronic components and with soldering. They
taught a little about the elementary principles of the device's operation.
They were fun! I built some; I know. But they weren't much of a way to
save money then, and certainly wouldn't be today. It might be a kick to
build an OTkit controller, but I doubt that it would be any cheaper than
buying one.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor-
I'm not sure that you followed my post.
I was talking about my traction pack voltage which is 144 volts. It
is below the cut-off limit for this converter.
I was never talking about a 14v anything.
t
On Nov 3, 2006, at 7:37 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:
Yep,
but 14V 14A is not going to cut it, I'm afraid.
The 12V draw is 10A with just the basic electrical stuff
running; 20A with the lights added and then I have
not yet addressed the vacuum pump, power steering pump,
fans....
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Tony Furr
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 7:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
Thanks for the reply.
The problem is not the output voltage, which could be reduced. It's
the input voltage bottom end. At a low-line of 200vdc, my 144v car
won't start the DC-DC converter.
I picked this up at surplus, so I didn't have the luxury of picking
the exact voltage spec I was looking for. I would love to find a 25P
model for the $50 I paid for this one. Since the sales spec said "up
to 300vdc", I was hopefully optomistic. oh well.
Any high-voltage EVers need a DC-DC converter?
-tony
On Nov 3, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Eric Poulsen wrote:
Tony Furr wrote:
I recently purchased a Vicor Megamod DC-DC converter (VI-26L-IU)
from surplus in hopes of using it with my 144v system. The sales
spec claimed "up to 300v", but the paperwork with the unit says
the low-line is 199v and a high-line of 399v (output voltage is
28v). A call to Vicor support confirmed this won't work w/ my 144v
system since it will not power on below low-line.
Tony, the 26L has a nominal input voltage of 300VDC, and the input
range is 200 to 400VDC. The output is adjustable from 14V to 30.8V
A 25P would be ideal, but a 252, 251, 25N, or 253 would work.
FWIW, the part # breakdown is as follows. This is incomplete, but
covers common DC/DC voltages:
Part # format: VI-2XX-XX
First X is input voltage:
Nominal Range
0 12 10-20
1 24 21-31
W 24 18-36
2 36 21-56
3 48 42-60
N 48 36-76
4 72 55-100
T 110 66-160
5 150 100-200
6 300 200-400
7 150/300 100-375
Second X is output voltage:
Z 2
Y 3.3
0 5
X 5.2
W 5.5
V 5.8
T 6.5
R 7.5
M 10
1 12
P 13.8
2 15
N 18.5
3 24
L 28
J 36
K 40
4 48
H 52
F 72
D 85
B 95
Third X is temp range:
E -10 to 85C
C -25 to 85C
I -40 to 85C
M -55 to 85C
Last X is power (if vout >= 5V)
Y 50W
X 75W
W 100W
V 150W
U 200W
So it won't work for me, which is a shame because this is a nice
looking unit. It's new in the box and has never been installed. If
anyone is interested, contact me off-list. If you're looking for a
unit like this, you can get a great deal while helping me save the
15% restocking fee they will charge me for the return.
tony furr
76 lancia scorpion EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Someone (Lee?) messed up their quoting. I did *not* say "No programming
head or computer needed." with regards to the programming of motor
controllers. In fact, I said the opposite, that I actually *favor*
software programming as opposed to analog settings (i.e. potentiometers,
DIP Switches, etc). This is a feature I really like about the Zillas.
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
Nick Viera *didn't* wrote:
No programming head or computer needed.
That's a hard one nowdays. Having a computer is a given. The first
design decision people seem to make is what operating system it will
run (Windows or Linux...)
You're kidding, right? Tell me you're kidding Lee... is that your idea
of a Halloween prank? - chuckle chuckle.
The mere thought of a monolithic kerneled OS used in an automotive
electric motor controller sends shivers down my spine.
Or are you just talking about the computer used to *configure* the
controller?
--
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
http://www.ACEAA.org/
--------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick wrote -
On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 10:55:53AM -0700, Rush wrote:
<..snip..>
>> All of my EVList messages take anywhere from 2 to 3 days to get
>> back to me, where as on my other newsgroups, it is just a matter or hours...
>>
>I've found this header in your email.
>X-Greylist: Delayed for 14:22:11 by milter-greylist-1.6 (apollo.sjsu.edu
>[130.65.3.73]); Fri, 03 Nov 2006 19:07:16 -0800 (PST)
>I'll bet this is the problem.
Yup that looks like the problem...
I went thru others peoples headers that have had long delays and it is the same
- x greylist delays them.
Some have this -
X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by
milter-greylist-1.6 (hestia.sjsu.edu [130.65.3.74]); Fri, 03 Nov 2006 19:33:18
-0800 (PST)
How does one get whitelisted?
David?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> It may that your BS meter is busted Peter...
>>
>> Let's just run some simple numbers, go with the original Cd of 0.47
> with the gate up. Lower the gate and you reduce the drag by, let's say
> 0.11, and if the downward force increases by 0.05, then you have a net
> reduction of Cd by 0.06, so the Cd then becomes 0.41. I think that you
> forgot about the fact that lowering the tailgate REDUCES drag, and
> only wanted to think about downward force.
Excuse me, but as was explained in the recently reference R&T artical,
lowering the tail gate INCREAES drag and REDUCES downforce.
Regardless, the change in Cd is pretty small for changing the tailgate
position. If you are going to quote numbers, may I sugest you look them
up rather than making them up?
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Pusher Trailer
>> It's not a vehicle, it's a trailer. You can't drive the trailer by
> itself.
>> If they allow you to register it as a trailer, then it;s a trailer and
>> unless they add a law specifing that trailers can't push, it's legal.
>
> Yes, I thought that was true, also, until I bought my first electric
> scooter. Of all things, I was threatened by the police during the Earth
> Day
> celebration... for owning an "electric skateboard." I inquired further and
> was told that no vehicle is legal, unless specified in the Oregon
> Statutes.
Check the statutes. I'm quite certain that trailers are legal in Oregon,
further more, I' certain that they don't specify in the statutes what
functions a trailer is limited to.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for all the help. I have gotten mine mounted today and the dash back
together. Will finish the wiring tomorrow and see how it works out.'
Thanks
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:17 PM
Subject: RE: ceramic heater core mounting
my post from earlier today doesn't seem to have posted.
I did this and it seems to work fine. I left a little open space above the
wire connections to keep the back preassure down since the ceramic
element has about half as much flow through space as the old core. The
whole heater plenum is high temp thermoplastic with the metal parts only
on the outside so it effectively isolates the element electrically if one
side happened to contact it. I posted a couple pics on my EV Album page:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/756
Mike
Anchorage, Ak.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: ceramic heater core mounting
I am thinking I seen someone who cut the center out of their original
heater core and mounted the ceramic core in it?
I can't rmember where I seen it or how it was mounted. I am thinking of
doing this and setting it in there with some
kind of high temp silicone sealer surounding it. Will this work????
Tom
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--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Nov 2006 at 21:24, Rush wrote:
> How does one get whitelisted?
>
> David?
No idea. My guess is that the server decides it based on some criteria, but
that's just a guess. I'll try to find out.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
I originally bought a 220vac version for my conversion, but I had initially
intended on a higher voltage pack. It worked on a 144 volt pack, but only on a
hot charge. It would brown out and shut down after I started driving. If I
didn't have a 12 volt battery it would have been more of a problem. I since
swapped to a 120vac version and it's been on all the time with no issues.
So the absolute lower limit for a DLS-220-55 is right about 150 volts DC. I
think you could probably get away with a 220vac version on a 156 volt pack as a
lower limit. If I were running a 192 volt pack I'd deffinitely have the 220vac
version.
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight - Sold
06 Civic IMA
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on the new
Yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Here is a spreadsheet that I have created.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 2:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Battery Spreadsheet
Good job on the battery spreadsheet Brandon! I'd been searching for
something like that myself. What about adding the common Dyno and
Interstate batteries? Specs for each are here:
http://www.dynobattery.com/prod01.htm
http://www.interstatebatteries.com/www_2001/content/products/product_golfcar
.asp
And a column for Peukert's number would make it pretty complete!
______________________________________________________________________
Brandon Kruger wrote: I've made a
> spreadsheet of about 50 different batteries comparing capacity,
> weight, etc. It can be accessed here:
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p5Q1FF4gnxsiKy0y_uGEbIA. I
> hope this can help others in finding a suitable battery.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
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--- Begin Message ---
You may want to talk to Ryan about this. He is doing this already, he is on
the list, he owns: http://evsource.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 7:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Discharging in series and charging in parallel
Hi,
I am not sure if this is doable. Imagine a series of say 26 12 volt
batteries of whatever chemistry. Its output is 312V and drives the motor.
Conventionally to charge this pack in series, we need a high voltage
charger with BMS for equalisation etc.
What if I get 26 separate 12 volt battery chargers and connect them
individually across each battery and plug them all into a common plug for
charging? Can I get away without BMS as now equalization is going to
happen by this topology. I can also leave the connections intact always as
there is no need to swith batteries from series to parallel.
Any input from seasoned EV enthusiasts welcome.
JJ
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Chels, I had a feeling you'd respond to this. I'll have to watch for Ed's show.
There were a couple of big name battery manufacturers at SEMA like Optima and
Odyssey, I'm really comtemplating contacting them and ask for sponsorship,
there was a perfect spot in their booths where my Saturn conversion would have
fit perfectly. Maybe if we could get them to get on the band wagon. I'd
deffinitely bring my car up to SEMA (its just a 5 hour drive).
I guess its early to be talking about next year already, but just getting the
feelers out there now.
Rick
Ed was at SEMA doing a segment for his upcoming reality TV show,
"Living
with Ed", which is being shot now and will premiere on Jan 1, 2007, on
HGTV.
As for Hybrid Technologies, I'm not surprised they were there, but I
wouldn't draw any conclusions from it...
SEMA's a real gearhead show (which is the appeal!) but I agree that
there's
a potential presence for EVs there for sure. The more examples that
efficiency and style aren't mutually exclusive, the better!
chels.
---------------------------------
Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry,
The list server cuts attachments off and only displays a
warning message "remainder of message truncated".
You can either cut-n-paste it in plain text format
or you can post the doc on a server and send us the link.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Curtis Muhlestein
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 10:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Battery Spreadsheet
Here is a spreadsheet that I have created.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 2:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Battery Spreadsheet
Good job on the battery spreadsheet Brandon! I'd been searching for
something like that myself. What about adding the common Dyno and
Interstate batteries? Specs for each are here:
http://www.dynobattery.com/prod01.htm
http://www.interstatebatteries.com/www_2001/content/products/product_golfcar
.asp
And a column for Peukert's number would make it pretty complete!
______________________________________________________________________
Brandon Kruger wrote: I've made a
> spreadsheet of about 50 different batteries comparing capacity,
> weight, etc. It can be accessed here:
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p5Q1FF4gnxsiKy0y_uGEbIA. I
> hope this can help others in finding a suitable battery.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Tony,
You misunderstood me.
I responded to:
> Any high-voltage EVers need a DC-DC converter?
I have a 312V pack that will always be between 200 and 400V
so the Vicor limits are ideal for me.
But the OUTPUT of your Vicor does not suit my needs,
otherwise I'd take it off your hands in a heartbeat
as I am currently using my aux battery in deep-cycle
mode (recharge while I also recharge the pack)
as my DC/DC died a couple months ago.
I do not want to pay the better part of a kilobucks
just to get a DC/DC again, so I am considering
options, one is the DC/DC converter of a Dell Server
power supply that takes the PFC generated 400V to
make 3.3 and 5 and 12V.
I have several of those supplies lying around and
recently bought two more for $25, when I use two of
those boards I can try to crank the 12V up to 13.6
and make it current-limited, then add the 3.3 and
the two 5V sections (after cutting the ground
references loose from each other) into 5+5+3.3 = 13.3
and crank that also to 13.6 with current limit.
Since each power supply can handle 700W, that should
give me about 100A at 13.6V, plenty to keep the
aux battery from being drained.
Cost: $25 and a lot of love.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Tony Furr
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 8:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
Cor-
I'm not sure that you followed my post.
I was talking about my traction pack voltage which is 144 volts. It
is below the cut-off limit for this converter.
I was never talking about a 14v anything.
t
On Nov 3, 2006, at 7:37 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:
> Yep,
>
> but 14V 14A is not going to cut it, I'm afraid.
> The 12V draw is 10A with just the basic electrical stuff
> running; 20A with the lights added and then I have
> not yet addressed the vacuum pump, power steering pump,
> fans....
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Tony Furr
> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 7:07 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: FS: Vicor DC-DC Converter
>
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> The problem is not the output voltage, which could be reduced. It's
> the input voltage bottom end. At a low-line of 200vdc, my 144v car
> won't start the DC-DC converter.
>
> I picked this up at surplus, so I didn't have the luxury of picking
> the exact voltage spec I was looking for. I would love to find a 25P
> model for the $50 I paid for this one. Since the sales spec said "up
> to 300vdc", I was hopefully optomistic. oh well.
>
> Any high-voltage EVers need a DC-DC converter?
> -tony
>
> On Nov 3, 2006, at 11:20 AM, Eric Poulsen wrote:
>
>> Tony Furr wrote:
>>> I recently purchased a Vicor Megamod DC-DC converter (VI-26L-IU)
>>> from surplus in hopes of using it with my 144v system. The sales
>>> spec claimed "up to 300v", but the paperwork with the unit says
>>> the low-line is 199v and a high-line of 399v (output voltage is
>>> 28v). A call to Vicor support confirmed this won't work w/ my 144v
>>> system since it will not power on below low-line.
>> Tony, the 26L has a nominal input voltage of 300VDC, and the input
>> range is 200 to 400VDC. The output is adjustable from 14V to 30.8V
>>
>> A 25P would be ideal, but a 252, 251, 25N, or 253 would work.
>>
>> FWIW, the part # breakdown is as follows. This is incomplete, but
>> covers common DC/DC voltages:
>>
>> Part # format: VI-2XX-XX
>>
>> First X is input voltage:
>> Nominal Range
>> 0 12 10-20
>> 1 24 21-31
>> W 24 18-36
>> 2 36 21-56
>> 3 48 42-60
>> N 48 36-76
>> 4 72 55-100
>> T 110 66-160
>> 5 150 100-200
>> 6 300 200-400
>> 7 150/300 100-375
>>
>> Second X is output voltage:
>>
>> Z 2
>> Y 3.3
>> 0 5
>> X 5.2
>> W 5.5
>> V 5.8
>> T 6.5
>> R 7.5
>> M 10
>> 1 12
>> P 13.8
>> 2 15
>> N 18.5
>> 3 24
>> L 28
>> J 36
>> K 40
>> 4 48
>> H 52
>> F 72
>> D 85
>> B 95
>>
>> Third X is temp range:
>>
>> E -10 to 85C
>> C -25 to 85C
>> I -40 to 85C
>> M -55 to 85C
>>
>> Last X is power (if vout >= 5V)
>>
>> Y 50W
>> X 75W
>> W 100W
>> V 150W
>> U 200W
>>
>>
>>>
>>> So it won't work for me, which is a shame because this is a nice
>>> looking unit. It's new in the box and has never been installed. If
>>> anyone is interested, contact me off-list. If you're looking for a
>>> unit like this, you can get a great deal while helping me save the
>>> 15% restocking fee they will charge me for the return.
>>>
>>> tony furr
>>> 76 lancia scorpion EV
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Hi Mike,
I hadn't seen this one before - it's brilliant! Looks very nice, too.
Except for the gas tank on the trailer tongue. (That's what the black
box is, right?)
I'm glad to see that the cruise control idea works. That's how I was
planning to control a future pusher trailer. But it sounds like you're
wanting direct control of the pusher's throttle now. Why? Safety,
performance, both?
What kind of gas mileage do you get with the pusher pushing your EV?
How does it compare to the mileage of the stock Civic that you made
into the trailer?
How about top speed?
Still considering the Power-Mite generator? New, they cost more than
four times what you paid for the donor.... Do you have a better
source?
I'd really like someone to produce a pusher trailer kit, or a set of
plans, or a video, or something like the books we have on converting
EVs. I can't imagine who would take the time, though. The market
can't be very large.
On Nov 2, 2006, at 7:17 PM, Mike Chancey wrote:
That would be me. It isn't really a tow bar, it is actually a fairly
conventional trailer tongue. Since then I have temporarily added a
manual throttle to allow the pusher to handle taking off from a stop
and getting the EV up to cruising speed without using an battery power
at all. With some more development it could be quite useful, but it's
primary purpose is simply to get the EV to displays too far away to
get to on electric power alone and so far it seems to handle that just
fine. I would prefer an all electric solution and I am considering
looking into a battery trailer instead. The pusher is in the Album
at:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/753
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
the message was not held for 2 hours, it is the different
timezones (Central GMT-6 and Pacific GMT-8)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 8:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Pickup truck drag
On 3 Nov 2006 at 10:55, Rush wrote:
> All of my EVList messages take anywhere from 2 to 3 days to get back
> to me ...
They aren't taking that long to get to me. Check out the headers on your
message -
Delivery-date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 21:08:50 -0600
Received: from metis.sjsu.edu ... for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fri, 03 Nov 2006
21:08:50 -0600
Received: from listproc ... Fri, 3 Nov 2006 19:08:26 -0800 (PST)
Received: from apollo.sjsu.edu ... Fri, 3 Nov 2006 19:07:16 -0800 (PST)
Received: from n054.sc0.cp.net ... Fri, 3 Nov 2006 19:07:14 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] (x added to obfuscate) ...
Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:56:07 +0000
So it appears that metis.sjsu.edu held your message for 2 hours (not sure
why) but nothing like 2 days. Your messages are being distributed to the
list in a timely manner. However, your own mail server may be returning
some mail to the SJSU listproc, causing it to put you on a 48 hour delay.
This can happen when your mail server is overloaded, as with a flood of
spam, for example.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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