EV Digest 6105
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Sealed lead battery comparison?
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Sunrise: visit and drive
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Ultra capacitor's
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Pusher Trailer
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) BB600 watering completed.
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Pusher Trailer
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Ultra capacitor's
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Sealed lead battery comparison?
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Ultra capacitor's
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Pusher Trailer
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: IHRA Racing
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Sources of ceramic heater elements?
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Pusher Trailer
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Renewable Energy Idea, an' More!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Ultra capacitor's
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: A hundred tiny toy car motors vs one big one.
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Sources of ceramic heater elements?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Pickup truck drag
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Sealed lead battery comparison?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: speedometer replacement
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Odyssey at SEMA video
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: It's ALIVE!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Pusher Trailer
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Pusher Trailer
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I am planning on doing a conversion of a Toyota pickup, probably
using electroautomotive's 312v AC kit.
So that would be 26 12v batteries.
electroautomotive recommends Deka Dominator's.
If we compared Deka Dominator's, Optima yellotop's, Odyssey batteries
and anything else what would be the pro's and con's of each? or,
which is best?
Thanks,
Tehben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would be interested in seeing what you find for surge breaks. The only
ones I've seen are on the utility trailers. They have enough spring pressure
so they don't operate when backing the trailer. But for a pusher trailer,
you might be dragging the brake all the time, unless you have an
alternative. Maybe a solenoid that cuts the brakes when the throttle is on?
BTW, have you come up with a kill switch? If this unit kicks loose from your
car (it can happen) you wouldn't want it rampaging the neighborhood. <g>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The plan is to add a surge brake
> couple designed for hydraulic disc brakes, and then couple that to
> the stock Honda front discs. A solenoid valve, the kind used on boat
> trailers to allow them to back up, will be wired through a relay to
> the brake lights. Basically, the valve will be closed preventing the
> brakes from applying, unless the brake lights are on. This will
> allow the pusher to push without triggering the brakes.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi back at you
I do have some time the week before xmas. If you get
a car ready by then i might be able to fly there to
check it out
--- jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Keith,
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Sunrise: Midnight
> Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 10:57:16 -0800 (PST)
>
> >jerry
> >is the prototype done?
>
> Not yet. Bob and lee were suposoe to help a
> coule das
> with me, instead I helpped get them back on time,
> getting
> their truck fixed, the Sunrise loaded. But it's
> slowly
> coming together, finished the last structural part
> today,
> now just have to bolt everything on, finish the
> suspension,
> doors.
>
>
> >when will we be able to come to florida and drive
> one?
>
> Within a month hopefully.
>
> >how long after that will tooling be available?
>
> You mean so you can produce them? If so we
> need to
> talk about that, no problem but the devil is in the
> details.
>
> Most of the tooling, except for some
> patterns, is
> already made. I can make more tooling easily,
> quickly but
> want to debug the Freedom, it's production line
> first,
> before starting new production lines sometime next
> yr. You
> would have a great market there though.
> I'll be building Mark's and maybe another one
> over
> school Christmas break if that's a good time for
> you.
>
> Jerry
> >
> >keith
> >--- jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hi Bob, Lee, Dave and All,
> >> Welcome back to the e mail world
> Bob!!
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> >> From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >Subject: Re: Sunrise: Midnight
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Lee
> >> >>
> >> >> If you're thinking of ramping up to production
> >> levels,
> >> >have you started a list of possible
> >> >> regional dealers?
> >>
> >> It's going to be a while before either
> the
> >> Sunrise
> >> of Freedom EV will need dealers. In fact, I won't
> do
> >> dealers, but instead have small, local factories,
> >> locally
> >> owned to build the Freedom EV and let them go on
> >> from their,
> >> with their own EV's or my future 2 and 4wheel
> >> EV/sometimes
> >> hybrid designs. This I hope to unleash many EV
> >> builders of
> >> built as EV's, of which some will survive long
> term.
> >> But done correctly, there is a large
> profit
> >> in
> >> building low unit, composite, EV's I've found
> out,
> >> higher
> >> margins than most businesses even. It uses the FG
> >> boatbuilding low unit production model that keeps
> >> costs low,
> >> flexable.
> >> I'm not physiclly able to do production
> >> either. I'll
> >> just design, do start ups, get the production
> line
> >> running
> >> smoothly and let others do the real mass
> production.
> >>
> >>
> >> The East Coast has been somewhat under
> >> >represented. I'm sure Bob has brought
> >> >> this up already, but I think Connecticut would
> >> make an
> >> >excellent location for a dealership. We
> >> >> could offer the full size Sunrise II (name?)
> and
> >> Jerry's
> >> >commuter car. Ship us the rolling
> >> >> chassis, we build it to buyers spec and train
> the
> >> user to
> >> >plug in an extension cord. Local sales,
> >> >> service, etc. etc.
> >>
> >> There is a Freedom EV factory already
> slated
> >> for Ct
> >> if you can get the Laws not allowing them
> changed.
> >> I think they will once we tell thm we will
> >> build them
> >> in their state, increasing jobs they need. There
> are
> >> several
> >> others interested in factories also. But first we
> >> have to
> >> get it finished, debugged, ect, other factories
> are
> >> a ways
> >> off.
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Bob, when are you back in town? I'm 90% of the
> >> way to my
> >> >first EV grin, but I won't have the range
> >> >> to make it to Killingly right away. But
> soon....
> >> >>
> >> >> Dave Cover
> >> >> Hi Dave an' EVerybody;
> >> >
> >> > I'm baaaaack! At last, got in yesterday Am,
> >> exhausted
> >> >after a loooong drive from Chicago in the
> >> driving(not)
> >> >rain. Preii DO work underwater!
> >>
> >> Glad you made it home safe. I hate it when
> >> you run
> >> into bad traveling weather.
> >>
> >> Lee has covered alot of the
> >> >New Sunrise Project, I'll fill in a bit, to, as
> I
> >> recover
> >> >from mountains of Snail mail and E mails.it was
> fun
> >> being
> >> >with lee, driving to FLA and Minnesota. That's a
> >> long damn
> >> >way!Hope I didn't drive Lee nuts with my
> simplistic
> >> >controller ideas. Well, I learned that doing
> Solid
> >> State
> >> >controllers isn't easy!
> >>
> >> Lee does have a lot of things to teach. I
> >> learned a
> >> lot while you 2 were down.
> >>
> >> > You don't hafta make it to Killingly.
> >> Killingworth is
> >> >closer, and downhill for you, north to south!
> Maybe
> >> to the
> >> >next Club meeting? Got a Bad Boy I charge Bill
> >> Glickman's
> >> >VW so there is juice for EVerybody.Between the
> >> Freedom EV
> >> >and the Sunrise Project I see heartwarming
> progress
> >> for our
> >> >EV's. Looks like Jerry will have a Roll Out for
> >> Battery
> >> >Beach Burnout?
> >>
> >> Easily. Maybe have it ready to drag race.
> >> ;^D
> >> Can't wait to do the Auto-cross course
> they
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things
done faster.
(http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have heard talk about "Ultra capacitor's" (basically a gigantic
capacitor) being used to capture braking energy and rapidly discharge
it for speedy acceleration.
Is there such thing as an "Ultra capacitor" available? Has anyone
ever tried it?
-Tehben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
IANA Trucker, but I've been thinking about pusher trailers for a while.
On Nov 5, 2006, at 6:30 PM, Michael Perry wrote:
I wonder what sort of hitch might work best. I'm sure the ball hitch
works
for a short while, but I've seen them fail... and I think they aren't
designed for this sort of thrust.
They're designed to stand up to backwards thrust during hill descent
and braking. Maybe not to the same degree, but there's at least an
expectation that a trailer hitch system can take pressure loads as well
as traction loads.
Thinking about how the hitch is designed, there's a metal cup that fits
around the ball. "Normal" loads pull on that cup. A "reverse" load,
such as from a pusher trailer, instead pushes on the ball with the
trailer tongue (which is made of stouter stuff than the cup). I'd
think that this would actually be stronger.
Maybe turn it around backwards?
That seems like it would complicate things greatly and increase the
chance that something will break. Maybe I'm not picturing it
correctly. Why not just beef up the normal hitch, or go up a size or
two?
What have the pusher trailer pioneers among us done about this concern?
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This afternoon I completed the watering of the 252 cell BB600 battery
pack in my S10 truck. To be honest, the hardest part was getting the bed
off, but I can do it myself with some 2*4's.
The battery condition was fine overall. Most cells had enough water
still, about 5 were low. To be on the safe side I added 10ml to each
cell, and probably added between 20-30ml to the lowest cells. I think I
skipped them when I first did the fill after a commissioning charge.
All interconnects also looked good with one exception. That one looked
as if the nickel plating had "bubbled" or something like it. I pulled
the interconnect and my guess is that it didn't make good contact with
the battery and was heating up at full power. Replaced with another
connect, should be fine.
In general though it looked a lot like the Elec-trak's BB600 pack: Very
little water needed if any at this point. I think I'll drive it through
the winter and check the water levels again next summer.
Looks like I have a 25 mile range truck with a pack that should last
forever. If I only have to water once a year I will be exceptionally happy.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Nov 5, 2006, at 7:08 PM, Michael Perry wrote:
It might slip through under the "combined vehicle" rules, but if it's
powered, it apparently isn't a trailer, in Oregon.
801.560 "Trailer." "Trailer" means every vehicle without motive power
designed to be drawn by another vehicle.
Yikes! Good catch, Michael! I'd better check the rules in New Mexico.
So, it's not a trailer... maybe it's a tractor:
801.575 "Truck tractor." "Truck tractor" means a motor vehicle
designed and
used primarily for drawing other vehicles and constructed so as not to
carry
any load other than a part of the weight of the vehicle or load, or
both, as
drawn. [1983 c.338 §106]
"Drawing" is not the same as "pushing", so maybe not. I bet a jury
would prefer the tractor definition, though.
See what I mean about confusing??? That's one place it is spelled out.
There
are many where it isn't.
This kind of legislative red tape might make it preferable to use a
generator trailer, even though they're more expensive and less
efficient and dirtier. At least they fit neatly into the law.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tehben Dean,
Here is an article
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/02/mit_carbon_nano.html
Also check out an E-Mail that just came out last night with the subject of
"Charging into the future" which talks about the EEStor Inc.
Curtis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tehben Dean
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 8:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Ultra capacitor's
I have heard talk about "Ultra capacitor's" (basically a gigantic
capacitor) being used to capture braking energy and rapidly discharge
it for speedy acceleration.
Is there such thing as an "Ultra capacitor" available? Has anyone
ever tried it?
-Tehben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tehben Dean,
If you want to compare the Exide Orbital and the Odyssey batteries, check
out my spreadsheet at
http://www.evdl.org/docs/odyssey_battery_comparison.xls
Curtis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tehben Dean
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 8:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Sealed lead battery comparison?
I am planning on doing a conversion of a Toyota pickup, probably
using electroautomotive's 312v AC kit.
So that would be 26 12v batteries.
electroautomotive recommends Deka Dominator's.
If we compared Deka Dominator's, Optima yellotop's, Odyssey batteries
and anything else what would be the pro's and con's of each? or,
which is best?
Thanks,
Tehben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's still being worked on:
http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/technology/11/05/5eestor.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, well it appears that it wouldn't legally be a trailer in Oregon.
Here in Arizona the statutes say "with or without motive power", other
states don't mention anything about power.
I'd say that if the DMV registers it as a trailer then you wouldn't have
any problems. It's not like anyone can tell by watching it drive by, and
most cops don't know all the statutes anyway.
However, if it is a big concern for you, Oregon has a really loose
definition for a motorcycle. Slap a saddle on it and register it as a
motorcycle.
Actually, you can register it as a "Fixed Load Vehicle". It appears that
fixed load vehicles can be a trailer (with certain specified exceptions)
and definitely can have motive power.
You could add a generator head driven by the engine (a good idea anyway),
the generator could be considered "equipment constructed as part of the
vehicle", or you might be able to skip the generator head and consider the
engine as the equipment, one of the specified types of equipment is a
"power unit".
> But, it would nice to know it's actually legal before spending a few $K.
> So
> long as it just looks like a trailer, I guess there's no problem. A lot of
> folks get away w/ illegal cars so long as they aren't caught. <g>
>
> It might slip through under the "combined vehicle" rules, but if it's
> powered, it apparently isn't a trailer, in Oregon.
>
> 801.560 "Trailer." "Trailer" means every vehicle without motive power
> designed to be drawn by another vehicle.
>
> So, it's not a trailer... maybe it's a tractor:
> 801.575 "Truck tractor." "Truck tractor" means a motor vehicle designed
> and
> used primarily for drawing other vehicles and constructed so as not to
> carry
> any load other than a part of the weight of the vehicle or load, or both,
> as
> drawn. [1983 c.338 §106]
>
> See what I mean about confusing??? That's one place it is spelled out.
> There
> are many where it isn't.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 12:42 PM
> Subject: Re: Pusher Trailer
>
>
>> Totally irrelevent however, since trailers are already legal and
>> included
>> in every states current laws. No state currently has a law AGAINST
>> pusher
>> trailers, so why fight a battle that isn't there?
>>
>> P.s. Self balancing is a pretty definitive description that means it
>> balances by itself. If it's attached to something, then it's not self
>> balancing.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Darin. I haven't looked too hard yet but it appears IHRA and NHRA do
not publish their rules online for free. Please
someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'll pull down the NEDRA rules and take a
gander. I want to take the Pinto up to the Alaska
Raceway Park http://www.akracewaypark.com/ when I get it completed and need to
know what I'll be up against at the track.
Thanks
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of BFRListmail
> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 12:11 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: IHRA Racing
>
>
> Mike,
>
> Most tracks I race at are IHRA or non-sanctioned. Never an issue for me. I
> seem to recall that it was once announced that IHRA has accepted the NEDRA
> rules, same as NHRA. But odds are the track doesn't even know electric
> rules exist. So unless you're running a sub 12 second car, I doubt they'll
> care much. Worst case, take a set of rules with you. I've got the 2006
> NHRA rule book. I don't think anything has changed since the rules were
> first posted in the NHRA rulebook. Or print out the NEDRA rules off the web
> site.
>
> Darin Gilbert
> BadFishRacing
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 4:08 AM
> Subject: IHRA Racing
>
>
> > Are electric dragsters allowed to race uner IHRA rules?
> > Is there an electronic copy of the IHRA rules for free download, or do
> > they make you buy the rulebook?
> >
> > Mike,
> > Anchorage, Ak.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.25/515 - Release Date: 11/3/2006
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Nov 5, 2006, at 9:27 AM, JS wrote:
Where is a source of ceramic heater elements?
The usual places:
<http://www.evparts.com/shopping/index.php?id=388>
<http://www.ev-america.com/>
<http://www.kta-ev.com/catalog/index.html>
<http://www.canev.com/>
Canadian EV (the last link) also sells a complete EV heater kit, with a
PTC element in a box, a three-speed blower. and two dashboard vents.
Even includes the heater hose. Very handy for those of us with lame or
nonexistent heater systems in our donor cars (aircooled VW in my case).
Of course there's Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. You want one of the $40
ceramic heaters that often are vaguely cube-shaped. Take it apart and
remove the heating element. I have details on one here:
<http://www.gdunge.com/static/galleries/CeramicHeater/index.html>
I'm in the middle of a site migration so there might be broken links.
Let me know if so.
John, in Sylmar, CA
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
LOL, from reading the definitions of trailers from several states, almost
all trailers fail to meet the definition of a "trailer".
Most states include a line that states something like " constructed so
that no part of its weight or that of its load rests upon the towing
vehicle."
The only thing is, anyone that has towed a trailer with a ball hitch knows
that you need to have 10-15% of the trailers weight resting on the hitch.
It's very dangerous to have less than 10% resting on the tow vehicle, let
alone "no part of it's weight".
So just about every trailer out there fails this test.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 6:56 PM
Subject: RE: Renewable Energy Idea
> Hi Matt,
>
> All incentives work, some better than others.
> So buying a fluorescent or other efficient light
> will save you year over year.
Oh you BET! and they run on DC, too. like anyother lite bulb.
> Replacing light bulbs costs you tens or hundreds of
> dollrs, while saving several solar panels because
> you use less electricity saves you thousands of
> dollars. That is easy money saved.
>
> But I am getting OT.Not really!
> The great thing of a solar panel is its modularity
> (add more when you need more)
> and the ability to _generate_ the fuel you need to
> drive an EV.
> Hi EVerybody;
Another way to save power, seldom mentioned :ANYWHERE! But it should be;
Put a lightswitch and multiplug outlet in your entertainment center. That
big ass TV isn't "Off" when you hit power off on the remote, neither is yur
VHS and DVD player. Just because they SAY they are off doesn't mean
anything.They suck power anyhow! Same for my record archival room, the damn
Tape deck glows with the power switch on off! At least I know my 78 rpm
turntable is off when it isn't going!<g>There is a outlet in the back of my
stereo amp that will switch off a plugged in gadget, found that when I had
to rresolder a loose wire on the RCA plug for the turntable. With the Tape
deck plugged into that I know EVERYthing is off! I DO notice the drop in
power consumption in my electric bill, never been lower, and I don't really
hava lot of electronic noisemakers in the house. DISPITE 16 cents a KWH!I
Think Electricity is about the highest in Corrupticut, as ANYWHERE! Thanks
deregulation. Of course I do expect the 'lectric bill to go up when I get
another EV back in servive?
My phantom two watts worth
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
Well there's two concepts here.
Maxwell Ultracaps have enough capacity to absorb a regenerative braking
cycle at a very high current. These are real, working devices which are
actually on the market. However, they are prohibitively expensive and
there are some technical reasons why they may not absorb and give back
the type of voltage you actually need.
EEStor has created a tech buzz about their proposed design for a high
voltage capacitor bank which such a great power to weight/vol ratio that
it can store much more energy than any current battery technology, and
probably be discharged and recharged indefinitely. It was also supposed
to be quite reasonably priced. However, it is important to emphasize
that even though EEStor has made some remarkable advances in caps in the
past, no such device is currently on the market and there is not much
evidence that a working prototype living up to these specs has been
made. They might not be able to live up to the weight/volume density,
and I have gone over the price they suggest and it does not sound
believable at all. Or EEStor could even be completely fraudulent, I
have no reason to believe this is true but it's always possible.
We're all interested but there's only so much talking you can do about
tech which doesn't currently exist.
Danny
Curtis Muhlestein wrote:
Tehben Dean,
Here is an article
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/02/mit_carbon_nano.html
Also check out an E-Mail that just came out last night with the subject of
"Charging into the future" which talks about the EEStor Inc.
Curtis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tehben Dean
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 8:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Ultra capacitor's
I have heard talk about "Ultra capacitor's" (basically a gigantic
capacitor) being used to capture braking energy and rapidly discharge
it for speedy acceleration.
Is there such thing as an "Ultra capacitor" available? Has anyone
ever tried it?
-Tehben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, that is a nifty idea.
You could mount n motors around an appropriately sized gear on a central
drive shaft.
Very similar to mounting n motors inside the rim of a wheel.
I imagine it would be easier to acquire/manufacture parts to do the
central driveshaft thing than the inner rim thing.
Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of gary
> Sent: Monday, 6 November 2006 10:09 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: A hundred tiny toy car motors vs one big one.
>
>
> Here's an example of grouping some small R/C motors. It's
> similar to an
> approach that I plan on trying for a lightweight 3-wheeler (3
> motors per
> wheel). This assembly is expensive but the motors are not. I think
> something similar can be made for a reasonable cost.
>
> http://www.hackerbrushless.com/motors_c50quad.shtml
>
> gary
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Nov 2006 at 8:27, JS wrote:
> Where is a source of ceramic heater elements?
You can get cheap ones by eviscerating the no-name $30 Chinese-made ceramic
heaters sold in just about every department store.
However, If you're interested in something of higher quality, Canadian EV
sells excellent quality ceramic elements for EVs. The ones I got from Randy
a few years ago were made in Germany, IIRC.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 5 Nov 2006 at 15:58, Michael Perry wrote:
> I'm wondering if some messages might have a content that's being picked up as
> Spam... and then later being released.
That's what I suspect, too.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 5 Nov 2006 at 18:47, Tehben Dean wrote:
> If we compared Deka Dominator's, Optima yellotop's, Odyssey batteries
> and anything else what would be the pro's and con's of each? or,
> which is best?
Not really a matter of "best" but rather which suits your needs.
The Dekas are gel batteries, very well made and highly consistent.
Solectria used them without any balancers. They often run 3-5 years in
Forces. They are not a high current battery; about 250-300 amps for the
group24 or 27 units is as high as you want to go. Their capacity is low for
their weight, but this is one of their secrets to long life - they
deliberately are acid starved so they run dead before the plates can be
damaged by over-discharging.
If you are running that high a voltage, Dekas would probably be a good but
costly choice. Unless you're building a racer you don't need the high
current, which is the great strength of AGM batteries such as Hawkers and
Optimas.
No idea about the Odyssey batteries.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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I'll repost some of my answers here for the benefit and scrutiny of others.
On 11/5/06, Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Questions I have:
Is a LEM sensor good enough for battery, motor (freewheel) current
sensing? It has the advantage of being isolated, but I'm concerened
about it's response.
For motor and battery current they are fast enough, we use them all the
time for our products at work. They have a bandwidth of 50-200kHz
depending on model, which means you'll be able measure the ripple
caused by the PWM at 20kHz. There is one caveat though. While a
particular sensor may be rated for 100A and 50kHz , those two values
are mutually exclusive. You don't get 50kHz bandwidth at 100A current
swings, this is rarely a problem though.
In the case of measuring IGBT current the caveat mentioned above is a
problem. The IGBT current swings from 0 to full current every time it
turns on so the LEM sensor can't keep up.
I was going to post these questions to the EVTech list, but it appears down.
I signed up for that list a few weeks ago and haven't received a
single email yet. I presume it's dead.
--
www.electric-lemon.com
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From what I recall of the closed-loop Hall effect sensors, they have
several accuracy cons:
There is a hysteresis effect that kicks in around the zero of the scale,
making measurement of small currents inaccurate.
The sensor should never have a current in excess of its rating going
through it, even for a moment. It cannot handle surges like a shunt.
If I understand it correctly this can magnetize the sensor's core and
cause long-term offset errors. A similar problem condition will happen
at even low currents if current is present on the sensed wire before the
sensor is powered up. This can be a problem if you use on a line that
would see inrush current as caps charge before it powers up and drives
the sensor's power lines.
The lack of the ability to handle surges past the device rating becomes
a problem. Now you can move to a larger capacity device that should be
able to accomodate your peak draws but larger devices always come with
larger hysteresis-offset errors, making it less accurate at reading
small currents.
Danny
Peter Gabrielsson wrote:
I'll repost some of my answers here for the benefit and scrutiny of
others.
On 11/5/06, Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Questions I have:
Is a LEM sensor good enough for battery, motor (freewheel) current
sensing? It has the advantage of being isolated, but I'm concerened
about it's response.
For motor and battery current they are fast enough, we use them all the
time for our products at work. They have a bandwidth of 50-200kHz
depending on model, which means you'll be able measure the ripple
caused by the PWM at 20kHz. There is one caveat though. While a
particular sensor may be rated for 100A and 50kHz , those two values
are mutually exclusive. You don't get 50kHz bandwidth at 100A current
swings, this is rarely a problem though.
In the case of measuring IGBT current the caveat mentioned above is a
problem. The IGBT current swings from 0 to full current every time it
turns on so the LEM sensor can't keep up.
I was going to post these questions to the EVTech list, but it
appears down.
I signed up for that list a few weeks ago and haven't received a
single email yet. I presume it's dead.
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Not this one. It seems as useful as my speedometer. It's a great way to
find out the error of your speedometer and it's an amazing trip odometer.
Lawrence Rhodes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: speedometer replacement
> At 09:57 AM 11/5/2006, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >A down and dirty speedometer is a GPS. I got an Explorist 300 from
> >Walmart.com for 126 dollars. It is very accurate. These would be easy
to
> >use on motorcycles and scooters or cars with the optional clamp holder.
>
> That might work as long as you don't change speed quickly or
> often. GPS tend to respond quite slowly.
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
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If they are as tough as they say they might be a good way to go. I'd only
need 12 and on their sides they would have the same height as Delphi
batteries which they would replace. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: Odyssey at SEMA video
> Does anyone have experience with Odyssey batteries?
> Design Life 12 years
> Service Life 6-10 years
> Here are the specs for their marine group 31 http://
> www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc2150.htm
>
>
>
> On Nov 5, 2006, at 12:03 PM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
>
> > Some glimpses of the manufacturing process. They even saw one in half
> > with a band saw! Also, he claims these batteries last for 12 years.
> > I wonder if we can get that in writing?
> >
> > http://www.nmratv.com/index.php?stream=http://www.streetlegaltv.com/
> > video/sema/wed-sltv-odyssey.flv&playlist=1
> >
>
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Congrats Dave & don't forget to put it on the EV Photo Album.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/evreg.php Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 6:31 PM
Subject: It's ALIVE!
> After a little frantic last minute scrambling and help from the list, my
EV grin is officially
> installed! My car made it's maiden voyage down the driveway under electric
power. Unfortunately,
> due to a completely undercharged pack, the second half of the trip was by
human power. BUT, I'll
> get the charging straightened out, finish up the little details and have
it on the road in no
> time.
>
> Yahoooooo!
>
> Dave Cover, official EV owner (finally.)
>
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Michael Perry wrote:
But, it would nice to know it's actually legal before spending a few $K. So
long as it just looks like a trailer, I guess there's no problem. A lot of
folks get away w/ illegal cars so long as they aren't caught. <g>
<SNIP>
Wonderful, I just discovered my pusher trailer is in fact, illegal in
the state of Missouri. The statute reads:
(59) "Trailer", any vehicle without motive power designed for
carrying property or passengers on its own structure and for being
drawn by a self-propelled vehicle, except those running exclusively
on tracks, including a semitrailer or vehicle of the trailer type so
designed and used in conjunction with a self-propelled vehicle that a
considerable part of its own weight rests upon and is carried by the
towing vehicle. The term "trailer" shall not include cotton trailers
as defined in subdivision (8) of this section and shall not include
manufactured homes as defined in section 700.010, RSMo;
It is however, legal in Kansas where the statute reads:
8-1479. "Trailer" defined. "Trailer" means every vehicle
with or without motive power, other than a pole trailer, designed for
carrying persons or property and for being drawn by a motor vehicle,
and so constructed that no part of its weight rests upon the towing vehicle.
One could suggest that the way the Kansas reg is written,
conventional trailers are in fact illegal in Kansas. :^)
I am not sure where this leaves me.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey
Webmaster
EV Tradin' Post
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/
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Peter VanDerWal wrote:
RE Surge Brakes
<SNIP>
Hmm, won't that put a lot of pressure on the valve? Seems to me that
backing up a trailer will have much less force on the surge cylinder than
pushing a vehicle down the road at highway speeds. Will the valve survive
this? If it does, will it be able to open with that much pressure on it?
Valid question. Anyone familiar with these kinds of valves?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
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Michael Perry wrote:
BTW, have you come up with a kill switch? If this unit kicks loose from your
car (it can happen) you wouldn't want it rampaging the neighborhood. <g>
Yes, it have three kill functions. The master relay that controls
power to the ignition system is actually powered by the
EV. Unplugging the engine control connector from the EV shuts down
the engine. Second the ground return for that relay grounds through
the cruise control connector, so unplugging that one from the EV
shuts down the engine. Third, the ground returns again through the
taillight connector, so unplugging that one would also shut down the
engine. It would probably be pretty easy to add a break-away connect
to disconnect the battery in the pusher if it were to separate from
the EV, say an Anderson connector bolted to the tongue with it's mate
secured to the EV by a lanyard.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
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The way out is to make it a permanent part of the vehicle, or register itself
as a motor vehicle (i.e. 2 wheeled motorcycle).
This sure makes the PHEV look a whole lot better. Now, when will be be able
to get one (affordable)?
Steve
Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Michael Perry wrote:
>But, it would nice to know it's actually legal before spending a few $K. So
>long as it just looks like a trailer, I guess there's no problem. A lot of
>folks get away w/ illegal cars so long as they aren't caught.
Wonderful, I just discovered my pusher trailer is in fact, illegal in
the state of Missouri. The statute reads:
(59) "Trailer", any vehicle without motive power designed for
carrying property or passengers on its own structure and for being
drawn by a self-propelled vehicle, except those running exclusively
on tracks, including a semitrailer or vehicle of the trailer type so
designed and used in conjunction with a self-propelled vehicle that a
considerable part of its own weight rests upon and is carried by the
towing vehicle. The term "trailer" shall not include cotton trailers
as defined in subdivision (8) of this section and shall not include
manufactured homes as defined in section 700.010, RSMo;
It is however, legal in Kansas where the statute reads:
8-1479. "Trailer" defined. "Trailer" means every vehicle
with or without motive power, other than a pole trailer, designed for
carrying persons or property and for being drawn by a motor vehicle,
and so constructed that no part of its weight rests upon the towing vehicle.
One could suggest that the way the Kansas reg is written,
conventional trailers are in fact illegal in Kansas. :^)
I am not sure where this leaves me.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey
Webmaster
EV Tradin' Post
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/
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