EV Digest 6117
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Dual outlet opportunity charging
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Solar EV power
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV pusher Trailer
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Now bad motor - Was motor roughness - Now Raptor Issue?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Hotrod warning, Re: Xebra Glider
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Now bad motor - Was motor roughness - Now Raptor Issue?
by Randall Prentice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Now bad motor - Was motor roughness - Now Raptor Issue?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Beware of this EV supplier
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Solar EV power
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re:NEDRA records - Production classes?
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser? A winner!!
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Solar EV power
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Curtis Sepex motor controllers up on Aussie Ebay
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) ICE polution figures
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: ICE polution figures
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Solar EV power
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Xebra Glider
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Hotrod warning, Re: Xebra Glider
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Solar EV power
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: ICE polution figures
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I want to charge at C/4.
So if I plug into one outlet I can charge at about 15
amps...If I double the outlets I could charge at
~30amps.
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Correct.
> Why would you want to do that?
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private:
> http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD#
> 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of mike golub
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 4:15 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Dual outlet opportunity charging
>
>
> but if I'm on the same phase...I'll just get the 120
> vac...Right?
>
>
>
> --- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Without knowing it they are on the same phase or
> > not,
> > you have no clue whether you are going to get 120
> > or 240V! when using two diode bridges.
> >
> > NOTE that with each cord feeding its own diode
> > bridge
> > (a great idea to avoid current flowing out one
> cord
> > when plugging in the other) then each of the two
> > bridges will provide the highest voltage it sees
> to
> > the + output of the bridge and the lowest voltage
> to
> > the - output of any bridge.
> >
> > With the two bridges' outputs connected + to + and
> -
> > to -
> > they can be supplying the same rectified 120V if
> the
> > two circuits are on the same phase.
> > However, if they are different phases, then only
> one
> > diode of each bridge conducts, from the highest of
> > the
> > two 120V phases to the + and from the lowest of
> the
> > two phases to the - output.
> > All other 3 diodes in each bridge will block.
> > This means that the two phases are added and you
> get
> > rectified 240V, approximately 340V, from the
> bridge.
> >
> > NOTE that the bridges must be 400V or higher types
> > or
> > they will fail.
> >
> > It depends on your charger if it can take the 340V
> > input or will fail as soon as you plug into two
> > different phases.
> >
> > NOTE there are so many failure cases with using
> two
> > sockets combined at the same time, that I would
> > advice
> > against it and use appropriate outlets and plugs
> to
> > get the power you want and that is safely
> available!
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private:
> > http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567
> FWD#
> > 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of mike golub
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 9:56 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Dual outlet opportunity charging
> >
> >
> > The block heaters typically have the 20amp breaker
> > where the outlet is. If not you can walk about 30
> > feet
> > to the clearly marked box. Most outlets are
> > numbered,
> > and are clearly written which outlet is which. So
> > sometimes you can walk the 30 feet look into the
> > circuit breaker box and see that they are both on
> > separate circuits and if they are on different
> > "phases".
> >
> > But the question remains is it ok to make
> something
> > universal that would use to extension cords to
> > separate diode bridges. I know each will have
> its
> > own 20 amp breaker, but not always on the same
> > phase.
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > --- steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "mike golub" >
> > > > I was wondering if I could connect each outlet
> > to
> > > a
> > > > separate diode bridge and then parallel the
> > output
> > > for
> > > > my 120v dc battery pack. (Take the +168v from
> > each
> > > > bridge and each -168v from each bridge, and
> > > applying
> > > > them to my batteries).
> > > >
> > > > Can that work?
> > > >
> > > Only if each out let is on the same leg and if
> > they
> > > both or on different
> > > brakers. You can tell if they are on the same
> leg
> > > buy using a meter and
> > > putting it across the two hot leads , if it
> reads
> > 0
> > > then your on the same
> > > leg , if not it will read 240 ( I would test all
> > > combinations incase the out
> > > let is miss wired ) . Telling if it has its own
> > > braker is going to be
> > > harder. How many watts dose a block heater use ?
> > > another way around this is
> > > with a isolation transformer. This will also let
> > you
> > > plug into 240 . The way
> > > I hooked this one for 240 was to have the ac go
> > > through the ac part of the
> > > bridge rectifier , then through the input of the
> > > isolation transformer , the
> > > other end of the input goes to the other 240 ac
> > wire
> > > . You'll need another
> > > bridge on the out put of the isolation
> transformer
> > > and both bridges have
> > > there out puts going to the batteries . I would
> > > also not just use 1 bridge
> > > but 2 or 3 , and heat sinks and fans .
> > > Steve Clunn ,,,, my spell checker says braker is
> > not
> > > a word hmmmm .
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > thanks,
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> > ______________
> > > > Sponsored Link
> > > >
> > > > Talk more and pay less. Vonage can save you up
> > to
>
=== message truncated ===
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> A little Fiat with a solar panel on top. Maybe you could ask his how he
> did it. Christie
I'd ask why he bothered. <vbg> Though I suppose an extra mile a day could
be worthwhile.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> To find out what the best hitch to use, go to a Air Stream Dealer and look
> at the different type of trailer hitches they have.
>
> Roland
I think that's an EZ-Lift (or on the same principle.) You are correct,
they do make the trailer and towing safer.
They put constant tension on the receiver. The dealer was telling me he
had someone tow in their trailer w/ the reciver pin not installed. (All
that kept the trailer from coming loose was tension.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got a tow home yesterday. Left work after midnight for drive home.
Starting hearing more noticeable faint grinding at more than just startup.
Also a new whirring sound was generated while in motion.
I pulled over to stop for a tow, but then it seemed to get better, so I
went back out on road at 20 mph. after 3 more miles it got real bad again.
This time I decided to turn car off and on. Woops. Upon trying to start
again, it didn't budge. Raptor seems to work fine. Green light, startup
fan; and diagnose voltage to the controller and Voltage OUT of the
controller if I pushed the pedal down. (called Peter from Raptor today and
he agreed on bad motor; said to check motor with a 12 volt battery; that's
tomorrow)
Luckily at midnight noone was around to see the Electric Vehicle broke down
(not even the tow drive noticed).
Today, the motor actually worked again briefly. i went in to get a audio
recording device to record the awful noise. but when I came out and turned
car on, it didn't move again.
Motor still freely spins.
I think I can conclude a motor issue. Controllers aren't known to grind
and I'm pretty sure the whirring noise was motor and not controller.
Motor shop.
QUESTION: Anything I should know about pulling a motor out (like how?)
I plan to bring it to the people our chemical plant uses for motor repair.
Thanks, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence and All,
While the Zebra may be useful as an errand EV
at slower speeds, you DON'T want to hotrod it to go much
over 45 mph because of it's single front wheel limits
stability.
If you are braking into a curve at anything but
slow speed, you'll have rolling problems, especially to the
right with just the driver onboard. Now brake on a curve
going downhill and in anything but a walking speed, it will
roll over. Not something I'd want in SF. Ask the Sparrow
owner who rolled at 5 mph backing while turning downhill.
Now you know why my 3wh EV is wide.
I'd bet that's why they are keeping it slow.
For Flat Fla, driven easily under 40 mph, it
will probably make a good EV. Though from an owner, said
it's all falling apart so one would have to go through it
with locktite for all the bolts, inspect the wiring, ect for
chaffing, ect.
Also they put one up on Ebay and it didn't sell
at $8k. I'd check the other person who are importing them
into the US, in LA I think, and help them make a good EV out
of these interesting gliders. They are lower priced too.
For more grunt, get a 600-1,000 amp 48vdc
controller gives you starting, hill power without increasing
top speed much.
One should know L91's, most motors come in many
different rpm/v. Only if you got a low rpm, higher torque
per amp would the higher voltage help hill climbing as the
motor would overheat if a higher rpm/v one was used. They
change this by changing the field windings. Otherwise you
would need to change the gearing.
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[email protected]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "SFEVA"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Xebra Glider
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:20:29 -0800
>I think this (to be honest) motorcycle is a perfect bed for
>an ev drive train of your choice. At 120vdc it'd be a real
>great performer. As they have it now they have an K91 size
>motor that is fan cooled. With just an L91 and higher
>voltage this would be a very good hill climber. It is
>pokey slow now but with battey weight down low it has good
>potential. If anyone else has seen it and has ideas please
>feel free to comment. As is it's an ok city car but I
>think it should be geared down to 30mph. Then it might
>climb hills better. A sepex system would work well in it.
>I suspect you could get gliders from China for much less
>than the 8k Zap would want for them. Lawrence
>Rhodes.......
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check the brushes, No current could be them stuck in holder.
Regards
Randall Prentice
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, 10 November 2006 10:22 a.m.
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Now bad motor - Was motor roughness - Now Raptor Issue?
>
>
> Got a tow home yesterday. Left work after midnight for drive
> home. Starting hearing more noticeable faint grinding at more
> than just startup.
>
> Also a new whirring sound was generated while in motion.
> I pulled over to stop for a tow, but then it seemed to get
> better, so I went back out on road at 20 mph. after 3 more
> miles it got real bad again.
>
> This time I decided to turn car off and on. Woops. Upon
> trying to start again, it didn't budge. Raptor seems to work
> fine. Green light, startup fan; and diagnose voltage to the
> controller and Voltage OUT of the controller if I pushed the
> pedal down. (called Peter from Raptor today and he agreed on
> bad motor; said to check motor with a 12 volt battery; that's
> tomorrow)
>
> Luckily at midnight noone was around to see the Electric
> Vehicle broke down (not even the tow drive noticed).
>
> Today, the motor actually worked again briefly. i went in to
> get a audio recording device to record the awful noise. but
> when I came out and turned car on, it didn't move again.
>
> Motor still freely spins.
>
> I think I can conclude a motor issue. Controllers aren't
> known to grind and I'm pretty sure the whirring noise was
> motor and not controller.
>
> Motor shop.
>
> QUESTION: Anything I should know about pulling a motor out (like how?)
>
> I plan to bring it to the people our chemical plant uses for
> motor repair.
>
> Thanks, Ben
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ben,
See, I had a feeling that it was the motor. If there is nothing in the way
in front of the, then you can pull it out with the transmission, just like
we do with a ICE.
Unplug or disconnect the battery pack and jack the car up and put it on four
heavy duty jack stands that have a locking pin in it. I use large ones
where I can jack the car up 20 inches off the floor.
Unbolt the drive line from the differential and slide it out of the
transmission. It is best to used one of those plastic transmission plugs so
you do leak oil all over the floor.
Make sure the transmission is in neutral and disconnect shift linkage noting
the neutral positions and what linkage arms go on which levers. I always
make a sketch of this.
Remove the speedometer cable and rear transmission bolt on the transmission
cross mount.
Next, remove the power cables from the motor and also make a sketch of where
these cables go.
Store all mounting bolts on the any unit they come off on or put them in a
zip lock bag and mark that bag where they come from.
If the motor does not have a bolt hole on top for a cast iron lifting eye,
then have a 2 inch wide nylon strap made up with sew in eye loops at both
ends. Run the sling around the motor and put one end of the sling through
the sling eye of the other end and push it back as far on the motor as you
can, to get a center of balance when you are pulling it out with the
transmission.
You will need either a engine hoist, or a chain hoist from a A-frame, like a
swing set or from a beam from the ceiling or maybe a pickup cable truck
crane. It is best to use a engine hoist, because you can just lift up the
motor a bit, than roll the hoist back a bit and than lift up again. You may
have to do that several times to clear the firewall and radiator cross
frame.
It is also best to take off the hood if you pull out the motor that way.
Another way to pull the motor and transmission out is from the bottom. I
have to do it this way, because I got so much stuff in front of the motor.
If this is the case, then you use a floor jack with a motor cradle. The
motor cradle is like half of a clam shell that is bolted to the floor jack
using two U-channels bolted together and than bolted to the pad of the jack
by drilling a hole through the jack pad.
Again you will have to find the center of balance. I also tie a small rope
around the tail shaft housing of the transmission to steady it as I have to
slide the motor back, tilt down and back again to get it out.
Once out, you can remove the transmission from the bell housing or engine
and again store all the bolts in Z-lock bags and mark.
Note the position of the pressure plate on the flywheel and mark the
position of the flywheel and pressure plate with marker so it will bolt to
the same reference marks.
Do the same with the motor adapter and coupler.
When I take my motor in a motor shop, I make a wood cradle frame with a
curve section cut out, so the motor will rest in this cradle. I bolt some
metal straps to the front and rear of the motor and than lag screw them to
the wood cradle.
When you take in the motor to a motor shop, also take in the motor adapter
coupler. Have them measure the diameter of the motor shaft and the inside
diameter of the coupler. My was not a press fit any longer and I had the
coupler built up and return to fit tighter.
Also have them put in new brushes and brush springs. It also best for you
to order them anyway and have a spare set in stock.
Have the motor shop apply back on motor enamel to the entire inside surface
of the motor plus down the face of the commentator and on the shaft up to
the bearing surfaces. This will prevent the brush dust to track to ground.
When you get the motor back from the motor shop, leave it on the wood cradle
and run it with 12 volts to break in the brushes. The motor shop has
commentator stones that you can get, and see if you can use the same one
they use. This will break in the brushes faster.
It normally takes 8 hours of running a motor on 12 volts either using a
battery and/or 12 volt battery charger. I normally using a 12 V meter and a
12 V amp meter and one of those 12 volt 500 amp cut off switches with the
big red removable flag handle. I mount all these in a clear plastic box,
which is large enough to hold the input and out cables.
Blow or suck out all the brush dust and then take a ohm reading from the
motor terminators to the frame of the motor. Record this resistance
reading, it normally will be over 20 mohms on a new motor or should be on a
rebuilt.
As time goes on, you should take this resistance reading about once a year.
When this ohms reading gets down between 30 to 50 Kohms, it is time to have
the motor clean. Motor shops have cleaning solutions that you can use even
will the motor is running.
After all this is done, then you are ready to put the motor back in the
reverse order you took it out.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Now bad motor - Was motor roughness - Now Raptor Issue?
> Got a tow home yesterday. Left work after midnight for drive home.
> Starting hearing more noticeable faint grinding at more than just startup.
>
> Also a new whirring sound was generated while in motion.
> I pulled over to stop for a tow, but then it seemed to get better, so I
> went back out on road at 20 mph. after 3 more miles it got real bad again.
>
> This time I decided to turn car off and on. Woops. Upon trying to start
> again, it didn't budge. Raptor seems to work fine. Green light, startup
> fan; and diagnose voltage to the controller and Voltage OUT of the
> controller if I pushed the pedal down. (called Peter from Raptor today and
> he agreed on bad motor; said to check motor with a 12 volt battery; that's
> tomorrow)
>
> Luckily at midnight noone was around to see the Electric Vehicle broke
> down
> (not even the tow drive noticed).
>
> Today, the motor actually worked again briefly. i went in to get a audio
> recording device to record the awful noise. but when I came out and turned
> car on, it didn't move again.
>
> Motor still freely spins.
>
> I think I can conclude a motor issue. Controllers aren't known to grind
> and I'm pretty sure the whirring noise was motor and not controller.
>
> Motor shop.
>
> QUESTION: Anything I should know about pulling a motor out (like how?)
>
> I plan to bring it to the people our chemical plant uses for motor repair.
>
> Thanks, Ben
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.electrictransport.net
I would like to warn all on the lis regarding the above website. The
fact that they operate a business at all remains to be seen but for
over a month I have tried to get a response back from their website
and the customer service line. I also placed an order a long time ago
for which they have no record and only a customer number. They sell
EV parts and are NOT a authorized retailer for Netgain or other parts
they sell. They will process online orders and take the money but
don't expect it to be sent. I'm not out any money but I wanted to
save anyone the frustration. They do give the industry a very bad
name IMO.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to the link below, an electric vehicle on coal power would be
a loser as far as CO2 production versus a gasoline powered car. I
thought this was amazing. Electric vehicles reduce dependence on oil,
solve other pollution problems besides CO2, run cheaper per mile than
gas cars, but they don't reduce carbon emissions if the juice comes from
coal power. If it comes from wind or (dare I say it) Nuclear, then they
are much lower in carbon production.
http://www.evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?page=blogentry&authorid=123&archi
ve=1
"A electric car charging from a coal powered grid ( 2.177 lbs C02/kwh)
would generate twice the C02 per mile over a new low emissions IC car.
If you lived in a nuclear or wind / hydro generated area a grid charged
EV car would generate 10 times less C02 per mile then in a coal powered
area and 1/5 the C02 of a IC vehicle."
"These high C02 numbers for a EV were a complete surprise to me. I
thoroughly researched the numbers and received similar numbers from
different qualified sources. Note these numbers represent a newer model
IC car and a small electric car with a 25 kwh battery pack getting about
60 miles from the charge"
Here are some representative numbers for carbon generation. No two
sites can give the same numbers, so you will google and find different
ones if you try:
Gas Cars - about .6KG carbon dioxide per mile (.5 to over 1)
Solar (amortizing the CO2 required to make the panel) .05 LB CO2 /KWHR
Coal Power - 2.177 LB CO2/KWHR
Average US power - 1.55 LB CO2/KWHR
Lawrence Lile, P.E., LEED AP
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you only drove the car every few days couldn't it completely recharge
it?
On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:42 pm, Michael wrote:
A little Fiat with a solar panel on top. Maybe you could ask his how
he
did it. Christie
I'd ask why he bothered. <vbg> Though I suppose an extra mile a day
could
be worthwhile.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That reminds me of a question I had - the new NEDRA classes are all set out for
conversions, but the website doesn't say if the production classes were changed
or even still exist. I sent an e-mail to NEDRA but got no response. Does
anyone know the answer? Are there still NEDRA production classes for our
orphaned production EV's?
Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yeah, I thought they have all those
voltage classes so everyone with an
electric car can be a World Record Holder. It isn't fair if someone is
hogged them all.
How many cars compete in each class?
Jack
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I was just perusing the NEDRA sight and realized a current trend. A few
> vehicles are switching voltages up and down and gobbling up alot of the
> records. I understand in a free world to the victor goes the spoils but
> it makes me kinda sad. I always enjoyed checking out the record list of
> names from all different places, times, and configurations. Maybe it's
> just that I noticed my mother's 96 volt SC record got wiped recently.
> Are there any NEDRA limitations to how many voltage classes can be held
> by one vehicle? I have no doubt for instance that Dennis could take the
> CE dragster from top to bottom any day of the week he chooses, (Oops I
> forgot he's not a member), but you get my point. I have time slips to
> show the Orange Juice running WAY faster than some of the lower voltage
> records but since I had my sights on Ken and Jim's 240 volt number I
> never turned them in. Does anyone else feel this way or am I just too
> sentimental?
>
> Shawn Lawless
>
> PS: I guess it's out with the Zapi and lead, in with contactors and
> V28's, and down to Battery Beach with the Electropolitan to grab back
> that 96 volt record. Wanna go to Florida mom?
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
> security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
> across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
>
>
---------------------------------
Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Carbon Dioxide and EVs - a loser?
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 17:21:52 -0600
> According to the link below, an electric vehicle on coal
>power would be a loser as far as CO2 production versus a
>gasoline powered car. I thought this was amazing. Electric
>vehicles reduce dependence on oil, solve other pollution
>problems besides CO2, run cheaper per mile than gas cars,
>but they don't reduce carbon emissions if the juice comes
>from coal power. If it comes from wind or (dare I say it)
>Nuclear, then they are much lower in carbon production.
>
>
>http://www.evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?page=blogentry&authorid=123&archi
>ve=1
>
>"A electric car charging from a coal powered grid ( 2.177
>lbs C02/kwh) would generate twice the C02 per mile over a
>new low emissions IC car. If you lived in a nuclear or wind
>/ hydro generated area a grid charged EV car would generate
>10 times less C02 per mile then in a coal powered area and
>1/5 the C02 of a IC vehicle."
>
>"These high C02 numbers for a EV were a complete surprise
>to me. I thoroughly researched the numbers and received
>similar numbers from different qualified sources. Note
>these numbers represent a newer model IC car and a small
>electric car with a 25 kwh battery pack getting about 60
>miles from the charge"
A few problems with their numbers. EV's made from
scratch as EV's will be for production, will get under
200wthrs/mile so 5 miles for a KWhr making only .4lbs per
mile. The Sunrise got 100wthrs/mile and is a regular full
size sedan, would get .2lbs/mile so easily beats ICE cars
even in the worse case. From any other fuel, it gets much
better.
I'd bet those are older coal eff numbers as many coal
plants are now more eff, some hitting 60% eff using combined
gas turbine with a steam gen off it's exhaust, cuting CO2 by
33% again.
Coal could, should be used to supply carbon, which it
mostly is, and enrich it eff with H2 from steam in a water
gas reaction, then turned into electricity and the various
liquid, gasous fuels we know we get now from oil thru F-T,
other processes. This can be done with waste biomass too.
The great thing about EV's is they can be charged
from most any form of energy, perferably not coal but even
there, it gets better than an ICE does except for SOx.
And since elecricity can be made from so many
sources, it will be the lowest cost energy source other than
your own RE system as many EV'ers do.
Jerry Dycus
>
>Here are some representative numbers for carbon generation.
> No two sites can give the same numbers, so you will google
>and find different ones if you try:
>
>Gas Cars - about .6KG carbon dioxide per mile (.5 to over
>1) Solar (amortizing the CO2 required to make the panel)
>05 LB CO2 /KWHR Coal Power - 2.177 LB CO2/KWHR
>Average US power - 1.55 LB CO2/KWHR
>
>
>
>
>Lawrence Lile, P.E., LEED AP
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure, if you only drove it 15 miles or less once a week.
Of course if you only go somewhere once a week, it might be cheaper to
take a cab.
> If you only drove the car every few days couldn't it completely recharge
> it?
>
>
> On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:42 pm, Michael wrote:
>>> A little Fiat with a solar panel on top. Maybe you could ask his how
>>> he
>>> did it. Christie
>>
>> I'd ask why he bothered. <vbg> Though I suppose an extra mile a day
>> could
>> be worthwhile.
>
> www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
> and the melting poles.
>
> www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:38 AM 9/11/06 -0800, Cor van de Water wrote:
Forklift. Or NEV / GolfCart.
You could run a motor-cycle with such a controller,
but for a car it is usually too little power,
unless you are OK with a car that can't go on the Freeway
UUhhmm, How about I rephrase that.
What sort of motors are these set up for, knowing that they are NEV/Golf
cart/floor sweeper etc. in their original application. But would the motors
that they are designed for be readily available, and if so would they be up
to the job of (for example) a motorbike?
What kind of behaviour would be expected from these type of systems, do
they "idle" the motor (and so require a clutch) or do they PWM the armature
as well, and allow for pulling away from stop with the motor fully engaged
all the time?
Thank and Regards
[Technik] James
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of James Massey
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Curtis Sepex motor controllers up on Aussie Ebay
G'day all
Aussie Ebay: ebay.com.au have a couple of Curtis Sepex controllers, 24 to
36V 400A
http://search.ebay.com.au/search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=DC+motor+contro
ller
Item # 190048365243
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Curtis-Sepex-dc-electric-motor-controller_W0QQitemZ19
0048365243QQihZ009QQcategoryZ294QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
and item # 190048365314
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Curtis-Sepex-dc-electric-motor-controller_W0QQitemZ19
0048365314QQihZ009QQcategoryZ294QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
So what are they suitable for?
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I realized at the smog-check station that my car had to be hot for
the catalytic converter to work
I began to doubt published figures. I began looking at the
tail-pipes of every car
in every parking lot I visited. Almost without exception they are
blackened with carbon.
Check yourself!
Some new cars have a decorative chrome surround, which I suspect was
added to
disguise the tail-tell evidence.
Do the published figures lie? How much pollution sneaks by before the
converter works?
How well do the converters work in really cold climes?
John in Sylmar, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Without quoting accurate sources for all the numbers given, blogs like
this are just one more persons unsubstantiated opinion.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> According to the link below, an electric vehicle on coal power would be
> a loser as far as CO2 production versus a gasoline powered car. I
> thought this was amazing. Electric vehicles reduce dependence on oil,
> solve other pollution problems besides CO2, run cheaper per mile than
> gas cars, but they don't reduce carbon emissions if the juice comes from
> coal power. If it comes from wind or (dare I say it) Nuclear, then they
> are much lower in carbon production.
>
>
> http://www.evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?page=blogentry&authorid=123&archi
> ve=1
>
> "A electric car charging from a coal powered grid ( 2.177 lbs C02/kwh)
> would generate twice the C02 per mile over a new low emissions IC car.
> If you lived in a nuclear or wind / hydro generated area a grid charged
> EV car would generate 10 times less C02 per mile then in a coal powered
> area and 1/5 the C02 of a IC vehicle."
>
> "These high C02 numbers for a EV were a complete surprise to me. I
> thoroughly researched the numbers and received similar numbers from
> different qualified sources. Note these numbers represent a newer model
> IC car and a small electric car with a 25 kwh battery pack getting about
> 60 miles from the charge"
>
> Here are some representative numbers for carbon generation. No two
> sites can give the same numbers, so you will google and find different
> ones if you try:
>
> Gas Cars - about .6KG carbon dioxide per mile (.5 to over 1)
> Solar (amortizing the CO2 required to make the panel) .05 LB CO2 /KWHR
> Coal Power - 2.177 LB CO2/KWHR
> Average US power - 1.55 LB CO2/KWHR
>
>
>
>
> Lawrence Lile, P.E., LEED AP
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The problem is not just that the cat is not working yet, a cold engine
will be run somewhat rich until it warms up. Automakers are constantly
trying to reduce the startup pollution and I believe they've made
substantial improvements.
Appearance of carbon is not really that relevant anyways. While it's
easy to focus on "look, I can SEE it!" that doesn't necessarily indicate
an overall significance. Particulate carbon and CO/CO2/nitrogen
emissions are very different things.
What was this in regards to again? How's this an EV issue?
Danny
JS wrote:
When I realized at the smog-check station that my car had to be hot
for the catalytic converter to work
I began to doubt published figures. I began looking at the
tail-pipes of every car
in every parking lot I visited. Almost without exception they are
blackened with carbon.
Check yourself!
Some new cars have a decorative chrome surround, which I suspect was
added to
disguise the tail-tell evidence.
Do the published figures lie? How much pollution sneaks by before the
converter works?
How well do the converters work in really cold climes?
John in Sylmar, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The little fiat with solar panel belongs to me.
The top speed of the vehicle is low,and my driving conditions is low seed,
below 60 km/hr so drag is not such a huge consideration.
And also from a full days charging, i use my homebuilt boost dc dc convertor
to step up the voltage of my panels to nominal 72.
I get around 4kms.
My car does from the batteries, 130-150wh /km (not AC). I have 3 lots of 55
watt suntech modules on the vehicle. Over here in downuner, there is plenty
of sun.
that 4km's is more than the distance i drive everyday from my home to the
shopping center where i park to catch a train (3km's). ALthough it is great
to be able to plug my car in with the installed electric vehicle charging
bay that the shopping center as kind enough to install.
Solar panels on cars depends on individual situation. I personally think it
is ideal to have a grid connected system at home supplying power to the grid
and then use the grid to charge the car. But hey, solar panels on cars make
it look cool and futuristic!
Cheers
On 10/11/06, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sure, if you only drove it 15 miles or less once a week.
Of course if you only go somewhere once a week, it might be cheaper to
take a cab.
> If you only drove the car every few days couldn't it completely recharge
> it?
>
>
> On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:42 pm, Michael wrote:
>>> A little Fiat with a solar panel on top. Maybe you could ask his how
>>> he
>>> did it. Christie
>>
>> I'd ask why he bothered. <vbg> Though I suppose an extra mile a day
>> could
>> be worthwhile.
>
> www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
> and the melting poles.
>
> www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you think you could find room for the other 6 batts? The truck version
might be the easier to mod.
Will Zap sell you a car for $8K? I think the current going rate is around
$10K for these (in Salem) w/ the exception of their pre-production models.
BTW, from what I've read, 30-35MPH is about what they are geared at, though
the speedo reads up to 10MPH higher. I would assume Zap has the glider
market sewn up, but it'd be interesting if they could be purchased there.
That could knock several K off the price.
For a similar weight/size vehicle, one might look at the Bajaj 3 wheelers.
Those are around $6500 for autorickshaw or PU, $7000 for the van model, FOB
in several west coast cities.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I think this (to be honest) motorcycle is a perfect bed for an ev drive
> train of your choice. At 120vdc it'd be a real great performer. As they
> have it now they have an K91 size motor that is fan cooled. With just an
> L91 and higher voltage this would be a very good hill climber. It is
pokey
> slow now but with battey weight down low it has good potential. If anyone
> else has seen it and has ideas please feel free to comment. As is it's an
> ok city car but I think it should be geared down to 30mph. Then it might
> climb hills better. A sepex system would work well in it. I suspect you
> could get gliders from China for much less than the 8k Zap would want for
> them. Lawrence Rhodes.......
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Xebra seems fairly stable and could probably handle getting the rig up
to 45MPH or a bit quicker. Unlike the Sparrow, the batts are mounted fairly
low in the frame, w/ most of their weight on the rear pair of wheels.
I would assume any extra batts would have to be added to the rear of the
car, which should make it even more stable, though I don't know where you'd
put them.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> While the Zebra may be useful as an errand EV
> at slower speeds, you DON'T want to hotrod it to go much
> over 45 mph because of it's single front wheel limits
> stability.
> Jerry Dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I should think so, being as he's from Oz, that it could charge the batts
completely. From his specs (12 miles range) it sounds like he'd get an
additional mile per day... roughly speaking.
I wish we had such tiny cars available to us in the states. We used to have
fun cars here, too.
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: Solar EV power
> If you only drove the car every few days couldn't it completely recharge
> it?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A very good point... but on another side. A lack of carbon in the exhaust
pipe doesn't mean the car is burning 100%. It just means it's burning lean
enough that there isn't carbon being produced. (Other pollutants can/are
still being produced.) My car has about 6K miles since I swapped out the
muffler, and there's still no carbon, though much of this mileage has been
short distances.
There are ways to get a cat-conv to work quickly. One is to place it closer
to the engine... but law requires these systems work for (70K miles??? 50K
miles???) any way, a certain time. Moving it closer reduces their life,
though it tends to kick in quicker. This is also one reason to go with
higher V batts in cars... since some batt power can preheat the converter.
Apparently, per howstuffworks.com, some hybrid cars *do* preheat the
converter electrically, so pollution is reduced even further. (Honda appears
to be at the front of this.)
Still, it appears that modern units (screen) come into operation very
quickly, perhaps starting w/in a couple minutes of operation. The prob may
be in the computer. If I understand this correctly, until your *engine* is
up to temp, your car will run the injected mix richer. This doesn't consider
the converter temps. That's how pulling from the driveway, I have nearly
100% power. (Though, no doubt, much worse pollution.) Basically, until
engine temp gets up, the computer at least partially ignores the "dirt"
being dumped out the exhaust. It's also one reason manufacturers will
recommend 2 oil change intervals... one for under 10 mile trip vehicles,
another for longer trip vehicles. Some of that "dirt" is getting into your
oil??? So, for short trips, it's almost as if there was no pollution to be
concerned with.
That aside, these figures for pollution of EVs are often made up on the
spot. I would be curious about the pollution from wind/nuclear generated
power, for instance... which is noted in the original. This sort of thing
also ignores the inherent pollution in every vehicle... the "cost" of
manufacture. Some EVs do very poorly in this, others have brought a car out
of the graveyard, and these do very well in this factor, assuming it's
driven any reasonable distance after conversion. This last factor is *very*
hard to determine.
Most of these tales ignore CO2 as if this pollution was unimportant. Your
average car will produce 3 times its weight in CO2 each year.
...just my thoughts and observations...
----- Original Message -----
From: "JS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 6:22 PM
Subject: ICE polution figures
> When I realized at the smog-check station that my car had to be hot for
> the catalytic converter to work
> I began to doubt published figures. I began looking at the
> tail-pipes of every car
> in every parking lot I visited. Almost without exception they are
> blackened with carbon.
> Check yourself!
>
> John in Sylmar, CA
--- End Message ---
