EV Digest 6129
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV suppliers
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Water heaters
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Water heaters
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Zilla division of labor (was: EV controllers? the 4th option...)
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV suppliers
by Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Vacuum pump switch oscillations
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: [BULK] Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Georgia EV conversion tax credit?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Defenseless Driving
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: EV suppliers
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) go kart ideas and parts sources
by "Joe Vitek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Water heaters
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Water heaters
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Attention all Floridians - EV Biz. Opportunity
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) motor repairs
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Water heaters
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Water heaters- and production EV ceramics
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Water heaters
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Vacuum pump switch oscillations
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Water heaters
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Adapters in stock
by canev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: motor repairs
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Water heaters
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: go kart ideas and parts sources
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: [BULK] Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) motor paint
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28) Re: motor paint
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) subscribe ev Ben Apollonio
by Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: EV Suppliers - A View From The Other Side
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Electro Automotive got slammed with ordered when gas prices started to go
up. Shari and Mike read this list in their free time (not much of that)
so
it is possible you will see a reply here.
As a EV supplier ( small one ) I will say this, the amount of time I spend
on the phone and e mail is far more than any "real" business could justify
for the retruns. There are so maney calls and e mails that some slip
through the cracks , you never know watch ones are going to end up being
orders so you do your best with each one but with so many , things can get
over looked . Money wise , its a lot like playing music, nobody starts out
doing it "cus they think its a good way to make money" . The people who
think its a big money game , drop out soon as they find out how things
really are . A mom and pop conversion shop in every town ?, yes we need this
bad for EV's to take off but right now the money / per hour of work just
doesn't make economic sense . Of course fixing computers didn't make sense
as a job ether , when they fist came out . I will be very happy if I ever
make as much money at EV's as I do mowing lawns .
Steve Clunn
www.grassrootsev.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
The 4 kW MES water heater I use in ACRX is very comfortable -
I start feel warmth coming out in about 30 sec after "on" and
in about 1-1.5 min it's as hot as it will get. Much faster than
ICE version anyway.
So true! Even the slowest EV heaters start working faster than ICE
heaters. How much water is in the system, Victor? That and the wattage
would determine how fast it warms up.
4kw is a lot of heat. What percentage of the time is it on? I'm
wondering what its efficiency is (what percentage of the heat actually
goes into the interior of the car versus to heat the water tank and its
surroundings).
Would I want it to warm up quicker? Sure. 5 sec would be nice.
1 sec even nicer.
If your tank is insulated, you could try leaving the heater on for a
while with the circulation pump off to see if it uses enough power to
matter.
The cost is different story, but I can tell you this: installing
$600 unit takes about 1 hour and you don't take your dash apart.
Making and installing ceramic heater will take more than one day,
which may or may not make sense depending how much your time worth.
Of course, this depends on the car. My Renault heater assembly comes out
with two bolts, a couple screws, and a connector. Other cars require
disassembling the entire dashboard.
FWIW, I'm not aware or any OEM EV using ceramic heaters.
Our Toyota Prius has a ceramic heater *and* a water heater.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Harvey wrote:
So, after you install all these safety features, aren't you up way over
a day's work to install?
It's quick and easy if you just buy a complete heater (water heater or
ceramic). But if you're going to build it yourself, then it can indeed
be a lot of work.
If you've done this sort of thing before, building a heater is not all
that difficult. There are a few "tricks", but they aren't too hard to
learn. Things like building it safe, and making it regulate temperature
reasonably well.
For a ceramic heater, buy an inexpensive 120vac unit and take it apart.
Study it carefully. You will see working solutions to all the various
problems: Mounting the electrically "live" and thermally "hot" heating
element. A thermostat to regulate its temperature. A safety fuse, and a
safety overtemperature cutoff in case of trouble. A fan that moves
enough air.
Now, these are only *examples* of what needs to be done. They are
***NOT*** workable parts for your DC-operated EV heater!!! You will only
be able to use the ceramic element itself (and maybe part of the case),
but the fan, thermostat, fuse, and cutout will all need to be replaced
with DC-rated parts, or you will have to use them to operate a relay
with high voltage DC-rated contacts to switch the heating element.
For a water heater, you can also buy an inexpensive one as an example.
Electric water heaters have an insulated tank, a 120v or 240v heating
element (which works on AC or DC), and a thermostat, fuse, and cutout.
Again, you will have to replace them with DC rated ones, or use them to
operate a relay. In some cases, water heaters have 277vac double-pole,
snap-acting switches that can be used on 120vdc with an RC snubber
across them. This occurs where they use the same high-voltage thermostat
in all models of a water heater to save money.
And of course, you will need a pump rated for hot water.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Arthur W. Matteson wrote:
I'm currently attempting to build a 450V, 100kW AC controller from 75V
MOSFETs. It will be immersed in transformer oil to increase the PCB
traces' current rating (try it in water, it's neat).
450V controller from 75V mosfets? How'd you do that?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, BOTH the hairball and the power section contain micros.
The power section does the PWM and voltage/current/temp limiting. It is
designed to provide PWM output while protecting the IGBTs. Even at full
output, the IGBTs are switched off periodically to make sure they haven't
failed ON.
The hairball handles all of the interface wiring, tach output, precharge,
series/parallel switching, dash lights, etc. It is the 'sacrificial lamb'
for dumb wiring mistakes, making repairs simpler. You can ship them
priority mail for $5 and Otmar can patch 'em up quickly and inexpensively.
Ask me how I know :)
The hairball and power section communicate periodically over an isolated
interface. If an IGBT fails ON or communictions are lost, PWM output is
set to 0% and the main contactor is disengaged. This is a BIG safety
advantage over a Curtis controller.
Other bonuses to the split design - you can upgrade the power section
without touching the 12V wiring, and new features can be added to the
hairball without affecting the safety and reliability of the power section.
That said, the power section is basically a "dumb box" with a micro added
for extra safety checks. It's probably marginally "smarter" than a Curtis
controller.
DISCLAIMER - this information was gleaned through reading past EVDL posts,
snippets of conversations with Otmar, and careful examination of my Z1K
before installation :)
Adrian
.
On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:28:00 -0800, Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<[email protected]> wrote:
Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
Nick Viera wrote:
Sure I'm aware that the Zilla is a 2 unit system... I've had one in my
Jeep for a couple years now (read my website). And my understanding of
the Zilla is that *both* the controller box and the Hairball box contain
software-driven microcontrollers which communicate and cross-check each
other. If this is true, I'd hardly call the controller part of the Zilla
a "dumb box."
Otmar, do you have your "ears on?" Would you like to elaborate on the
division of labor between the Zilla controller and Hairball?
--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It will be interesting to see who has a controller I can buy!
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
---- steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> > Electro Automotive got slammed with ordered when gas prices started to go
> > up. Shari and Mike read this list in their free time (not much of that)
> > so
> > it is possible you will see a reply here.
> >
> As a EV supplier ( small one ) I will say this, the amount of time I spend
> on the phone and e mail is far more than any "real" business could justify
> for the retruns. There are so maney calls and e mails that some slip
> through the cracks , you never know watch ones are going to end up being
> orders so you do your best with each one but with so many , things can get
> over looked . Money wise , its a lot like playing music, nobody starts out
> doing it "cus they think its a good way to make money" . The people who
> think its a big money game , drop out soon as they find out how things
> really are . A mom and pop conversion shop in every town ?, yes we need this
> bad for EV's to take off but right now the money / per hour of work just
> doesn't make economic sense . Of course fixing computers didn't make sense
> as a job ether , when they fist came out . I will be very happy if I ever
> make as much money at EV's as I do mowing lawns .
> Steve Clunn
>
>
>
>
>
> www.grassrootsev.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gents,
I tried 3 different circuits to see if they would get rid of the vacuum
pump relay oscillations. The first one with a 555 timer. It would not
start the count down correctly. The second one was a simple
capacitor/resistor/fet circuit that worked on the bench perfectly. It
is adjustable from .5 to 4 seconds of delay time after the vacuum
switch opens. The third circuit was just a 1000uf electrolytic cap
across the relay coil, not the contacts. According to my scope, there
are no more oscillations from the pump relay with this cap. The voltage
just does a quick downward taper. There were dozens, maybe hundreds of
oscillations per second without the cap according to the scope. So, I
installed the cap this morning and will drive it around to see how it
does. I also tried 220, 47 and .10 uf caps too. They helped, but were
not 100% effective like the 1000uf cap.
Don, you might give the cap a try and see if it helps your truck.
I checked Eddies Saturn vacuum pump, and it operated perfectly, of
course.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neat trick with the transformer oil. If you are using silicone oil, it
is not too flammable, and probably a great heat transfer fluid.
(Theoretically distilled water would work for this also, but it'd suck
all the copper out of your traces trying to become ionized water, then
it would be a fine conductor)
I would usually think about at IGBT's for a 450V controller. Good luck
with this, keep us posted.
Lawrence Lile, P.E., LEED AP
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [BULK] Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
Importance: Low
Arthur W. Matteson wrote:
> I'm currently attempting to build a 450V, 100kW AC controller from 75V
> MOSFETs. It will be immersed in transformer oil to increase the PCB
> traces' current rating (try it in water, it's neat).
>
>
450V controller from 75V mosfets? How'd you do that?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 13 Nov 2006 at 8:21, David Brandt wrote:
> The usual method is to tailgate to force you to go faster.
This subject seems to crop up on the list every few months. Although it
often generates a long and partly off-topic thread, I don't think it's an
inappropriate subject. This IS of concern to many EVers, those who choose
to drive lower-powered EVs. It's also of uinversal concern to anyone who
chooses a more efficient, lower powered vehicle, regardless of fuel.
What it boils down to is that it's a violation of traffic law to tailgate.
You can hope that a police officer spots the antisocial behavior, but it's
not likely to happen. If the person causes a collision, it'll be his fault,
but that's rather cold comfort when you're looking at $25k worth of smashed
lithium batteries (or whatever). Carry good insurance.
Of course you want to prevent a collision. It may be a controversial
position, but I don't think speeding up helps. All it does is encourage the
tailgater, and often he falls back only a little. (And with some EVs
speeding up isn't an option anyway. ;-)
As for me, when someone tailgates me, I do nothing. I don't speed up or
slow down. I don't make obscene gestures. I don't flash the brakelights.
I act as if I don't know he's there. Eventually the tailgater will either
exit the freeway (that's why he's usually in the right lane, where I hang
out), or pass with a roar and a belch of foul-smelling cat [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Which is
fine.
I suspect that very few of these people are actually nuts enough to cause an
accident that would scratch up their shiny new $40k metal monster machines.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> How about replacing the rear bumper with a big slab of oak? It will
> take a lot of punishment
> without complaining. It's renewable. And the rustic look might fit in
> better, less chance they'll
> notice it's an EV. ;^)
> Dave Cover
>Ash is easier to work with, and more forgiving. I suggest a nice piece
>of ash for your EV bumper
Let's hope those drivers aren't out to "get a piece of Ash"
6" diameter Schedule 40 pipe works for me. With a big hitch welded right
into the middle of it, and a few chain hooks for extra effect. The
tailgate of my truck (which may soon turn into an EV) has trashed the
front end of more than one soccer mom's minivan (that'll teach em to yak
on the cell phone), so far without much of a complaint.
--Lawrence Lile
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've had nothing but good experiences with the following suppliers:
KTA Services
EV Source
Electro Automotive
Cafe Electric
Yes, it sometimes takes EA a bit longer to respond to e-mails - but they
have always been up front regarding delivery delays. When I ordered my
adapter plate last year I was informed that their machinist was
extraordinarily busy and that it would be several weeks before my adapter
would arrive. Mike was also very helpful when I discovered my motor was
built with the wrong length shaft. EA provided return shipping for the
adapter spacer ring and sent a replacement ASAP.
Ryan at EV Source and Otmar from Cafe Electric were both very helpful when
I was having problems with my Zilla controller. I had connected the tach
wiring incorrectly and smoked the hairball. I shipped the broken hairball
out on a Monday and had it back in my car on Thursday!
Adrian
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know this may have been discussed in the recent past, but since I am on the
digest, I probably missed it.
I would like to use a go-kart as a test bed for smaller motors and controllers
(my own project with a friend). The side benefit being that my daughter will get
to have some fun with an electric go-kart. I think Lee is involved with stuff
like this.
1. Who, on here, has built an electric go-kart that performs as well or better
than the ones you can get with the 5hp Briggs&Stratton? Details?
2. What are some good parts sources for chassis, wheels, brakes, axles, etc.?
3. What size series motor would be good for an app like this?
4. This will be for an asphalt/concrete track.
I am thinking of doing a 48V setup with two batts between the leg area and two
behind the driver. I would like something really torquey and fun, but not
something that necessarily will do wheelstands (well, wheelstands would be fun
too ;).
Any ideas, suggestions, links to manufacturers, or flames are welcome. :)
--
joe vitek
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is an amazing heater Victor. My truck pulls 20kw (300v x 7 amps)
when I turn the heater on. It's very slow to warm up and does not heat
up the cabin very well. John Waylands report from long ago verified this.
I wonder how I can make the heater worth it's watts?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> > The 4 kW MES water heater I use in ACRX is very comfortable -
> > I start feel warmth coming out in about 30 sec after "on" and
> > in about 1-1.5 min it's as hot as it will get. Much faster than
> > ICE version anyway.
>
> So true! Even the slowest EV heaters start working faster than ICE
> heaters. How much water is in the system, Victor? That and the wattage
> would determine how fast it warms up.
>
> 4kw is a lot of heat. What percentage of the time is it on? I'm
> wondering what its efficiency is (what percentage of the heat actually
> goes into the interior of the car versus to heat the water tank and its
> surroundings).
>
> > Would I want it to warm up quicker? Sure. 5 sec would be nice.
> > 1 sec even nicer.
>
> If your tank is insulated, you could try leaving the heater on for a
> while with the circulation pump off to see if it uses enough power to
> matter.
>
> > The cost is different story, but I can tell you this: installing
> > $600 unit takes about 1 hour and you don't take your dash apart.
> > Making and installing ceramic heater will take more than one day,
> > which may or may not make sense depending how much your time worth.
>
> Of course, this depends on the car. My Renault heater assembly comes
out
> with two bolts, a couple screws, and a connector. Other cars require
> disassembling the entire dashboard.
>
> > FWIW, I'm not aware or any OEM EV using ceramic heaters.
>
> Our Toyota Prius has a ceramic heater *and* a water heater.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
The 4 kW MES water heater I use in ACRX is very comfortable -
...
So true! Even the slowest EV heaters start working faster than ICE
heaters. How much water is in the system, Victor?
The integrated heater tank is 2 liters capacity. I'm not sure
what CRX's core volume is, but overall it is close to 1 US gal.
That and the wattage
would determine how fast it warms up.
Yes, like I say, after 30 sec it's warming. 2kW version
with the same amt of water may take 1 min.
4kw is a lot of heat. What percentage of the time is it on? I'm
wondering what its efficiency is (what percentage of the heat actually
goes into the interior of the car versus to heat the water tank and its
surroundings).
Efficiency is very close to 100% - the heater is barely warm to touch
from outside. Short rubber hoses to the firewall are warmer than
the heater, but not by much. As of duty cycle, as you'd expect after
initial "on" its duty cycle depends on how much air you blow through
the exchanger core, e.g. how aggressively you cool off the water.
If the fan is off, the heating element stays on for ~10 sec and
off for few minutes - I lost patience waiting to determine that
(I can monitor battery current surge when heater turns in). When
it's cold outside and blower is on full speed, the heater is on
most the time, but still not 100% of the time. 2kW unit would
have been 100% and even may not be able to keep up with heating
if the exchanger is large. Nevertheless, good news is all the energy
goes to heat (no waste of heating anything other than water).
Would I want it to warm up quicker? Sure. 5 sec would be nice.
1 sec even nicer.
If your tank is insulated, you could try leaving the heater on for a
while with the circulation pump off to see if it uses enough power to
matter.
I could do that (esp since parked car is plugged in at all times in my
case),
but it really not worth it. As I said, I can wait 30 sec, but in
practice, I usually don't have to wait any time: I open the car and
turn heater on. Then, by the time garage door lowers, I sit down,
put my things on the seat, shut the door, put it on gear and back out of
the driveway, more than 30 sec elapsed.
We're splitting hairs here.
The cost is different story, but I can tell you this: installing
$600 unit takes about 1 hour and you don't take your dash apart.
Making and installing ceramic heater will take more than one day,
which may or may not make sense depending how much your time worth.
Of course, this depends on the car. My Renault heater assembly comes out
with two bolts, a couple screws, and a connector. Other cars require
disassembling the entire dashboard.
Good for you. Still, to rip the core out and integrate
ceramic element, build all the controls for it which will last
for years, is practically not so quick (despite being trivial
from engineering point of view). One has to try to understand this.
If you think something takes a day to do, you try and realize in a
week you're still half way through. Murphy's law in action.
FWIW, I'm not aware or any OEM EV using ceramic heaters.
Our Toyota Prius has a ceramic heater *and* a water heater.
Toyota Prius is gasoline vehicle so the engine heat comes for free.
Ceramic is probably used only because you must have heat available
in EV only mode.
I meant out of all pure EVs demonstrated, there was none with ceramic
heater (unless I missed it). Perhaps they all are making the same basic
mistake :-)
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the Seattle area here, we have the Corp. HQ of Evader
Electric High-performance Vehicles. ( www.evader.us ) They are selling
and delivering their 1 kw hub motor scooters to their dealers up and
down the west coast, and abroad. It retails for $2500. and is well
built and engineered ( in my opinion )
A close local friend, Jim Johnson, President of MC Electric has taken on
the distributorship for almost the whole West Coast. The scooters, 1 KW
Hub Motor scooters are selling well. There are future plans for a
freeway capable scooter as well !!
At the Seattle Intl. Auto Show, I helped them out for 3 days,Talking to
a very lively crowd, and got to meet one of Evader's V.P.'s Randy
Novito, Director of Operations.
He has approached me with a need to find some one in the Florida
Area who might be interested in becoming the Distributor for the South
East, and beyond. Kind of like what our friend and SEVA member Jim
Johnson is doing for the West Coast.
You can contact ME personally for more details, or contact Randy Novito
at EVADER directly.. Here is his message and phone contact info below..
------------------------
Hi Steve,
It was a pleasure speaking with you today. As I mentioned we are
looking for a business similar to MC Electric in Florida State to
market our scooters. If you have any connections you could pass on I
would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks...
Randy Novito
Evader MotorSports, Inc.
425 213 1515 x 16
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland,
thanks for the instructions. I actually didn't have email over weekend so
went ahead by another EV friend's directions who came over to give my motor
Last Rites.
I left the transmission in the truck, pulled out the motor with adapters
attached, disassembled them in my garage during a rainy night (marking
whatever seemed necessary to mark, sketching and taking pictures) and
brought the motor to the local electric motor shop for quote and hopefully
$500 region repairs for the commutator, bearings, brushes and springs.
Removing the motor was the easy part. everything on top was the trouble
(batteries, controllers, battery box that just barely got out, because the
previous owner added 2 battery holders to the front.
question, though my car savy roomate helped me pull the motor and didn't
seem to notice anything out of the ordinary, when detaching the bell
housing (motor side) from transmission side bell housing (the inside of the
bell is dry). only thing present inside the bell is the end of the
transmission grooves that slide into the clutch grooves which are attached
to the motor adapter plate.
[hopefully that last paragraph is correct terminology]
anyway, what is done is done and hopefully its all put back together with
ease.
Thanks, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
That is an amazing heater Victor. My truck pulls 20kw (300v x 7 amps)
Wouldn't that be 2.1kw, not 20kw?
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I meant out of all pure EVs demonstrated, there was
> none with ceramic
> heater (unless I missed it). Perhaps they all are
> making the same basic
> mistake :-)
>
> Victor
>
The Dodge TEVan had a ceramic heater that provided
excellent heat for the winters in North Carolina. Not
real cold there, but it does go below freezing.
It was espescially nice when I could provide almost
instant heat when taking my infant daughter over to
grandma Molly's before work.
Rod
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That would be correct. That's why I took a nap :)
2kw is still insufficient, even for California type conditions.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > That is an amazing heater Victor. My truck pulls 20kw (300v x 7 amps)
> >
> Wouldn't that be 2.1kw, not 20kw?
>
> Bill Dennis
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm apparently coming into this thread late, and I am
not an EE. That said, I'd replace the relay, and make
certain that my vacuum pump switch is a Square-D,
courtesy of KTA services. It is much more expensive,
but worth it on the chatter & reliability end. Ie, too
many vac. pump switches have the on-off points too
close to work effectively with a Thomas pump. Better
yet, get a GAST. Set it at 10 mmHg, and 22 mm Hg.
Use a decent reservoir, and get up to 4 actuations per
pull from the pump!
My 0.02.
peace,
--- Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gents,
>
> I tried 3 different circuits to see if they would
> get rid of the vacuum
> pump relay oscillations. The first one with a 555
> timer. It would not
> start the count down correctly. The second one was a
> simple
> capacitor/resistor/fet circuit that worked on the
> bench perfectly. It
> is adjustable from .5 to 4 seconds of delay time
> after the vacuum
> switch opens. The third circuit was just a 1000uf
> electrolytic cap
> across the relay coil, not the contacts. According
> to my scope, there
> are no more oscillations from the pump relay with
> this cap. The voltage
> just does a quick downward taper. There were dozens,
> maybe hundreds of
> oscillations per second without the cap according to
> the scope. So, I
> installed the cap this morning and will drive it
> around to see how it
> does. I also tried 220, 47 and .10 uf caps too. They
> helped, but were
> not 100% effective like the 1000uf cap.
>
> Don, you might give the cap a try and see if it
> helps your truck.
>
> I checked Eddies Saturn vacuum pump, and it operated
> perfectly, of
> course.
>
> Mike
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
Oh forgot to mention. There are some other things to note for a
closed-loop hot water system.
1. This is going to be left in the cold, thus some sort of antifreeze
will probably be necessary so it doesn't ice over. Most likely
propylene glycol (car antifreeze). It would be wise to ensure all
your components will handle the antifreeze, this is not the normal job
for an electric instant water heater but I'd guess it wouldn't have a
problem.
2. A temp/pressure relief valve is necessary. If the circulating
pump fails and boils the water it needs to vent (preferrably not on
the passenger's feet or anything).
3. There's a possibility of a need for an expansion or overflow
chamber. Hot water expands slightly, I'd hope rubber hoses would just
stretch a bit to accomodate the new volume without making high
pressure. In some (improbable) conditions when the power is cut off
to the pump and heating element the residual heat in the element can
still boil the now-still water around it making high pressure.
Danny
Just a suggestion to meet some of those points:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category2_10001_10002_13507_-1
That would give you #2 and #3 in a ready-to-go package... just add a
standard radiator cap of your PSI choosing.
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Just thought I should pipe in here.
We have always stocked (for the last 10 years) the adapters for the
Chevy 2.2L, 2.5L, 2.8L and Geo engines. These are always on the shelf
and ready to ship at $700us.
Custom adapters usually take 3-4 weeks and we never ask you to ship your
tranny to us (unless its something totally weird) :>)
We never take more than a 10% deposit on any kits (or adapters) with
payment in full upon shipment.
Our S-10 conversion kits usually ship complete within 1-3 weeks.
What's the problem,?
BFN
Randy
--
Canadian Electric Vehicles Ltd.
PO, Box 616, 1184 Middlegate Rd.
Errington, British Columbia,
Canada, V0R 1V0
Phone: (250) 954-2230
Fax: (250) 954-2235
Website: http://www.canev.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manufactures of: "Might-E Truck"
EV conversion Kits and components
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Hello Ben,
Ok, that works too.
I bet your friend thought the bell housing would be all dirty with oil. If the
bell housing has no oil indication, that means that the input seal of the
transmission is still good. Normally if you have over 30,000 miles or 5 years
on the transmission, a mechanic would install a new gasket and a seal.
The motor shop will normally replace the motor bearings. I like to use a
higher grade seal bearings with a high temperature GE motor grease which some
motor shop uses.
One thing I forgot to tell you, is that a motor shop will paint the motor. I
myself tell them not to paint the motor, which sometimes they strip down to
bare metal.
I tell them to not to paint the motor because I will do that my self with
appliance epoxy spray paint. It can go directly on bare metal with no primer.
All my motors and enclosures in the motor bay are all done in gloss black,
satin black and stainless steel epoxy paint that can be brush to look like
brush stainless.
There is also a clear paint that is call Diamond Hard that is used over all
bare aluminum or you can use the stainless steel epoxy on aluminum to protect
it from corrosion.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> ; [EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:31 PM
Subject: motor repairs
Roland,
thanks for the instructions. I actually didn't have email over weekend so
went ahead by another EV friend's directions who came over to give my motor
Last Rites.
I left the transmission in the truck, pulled out the motor with adapters
attached, disassembled them in my garage during a rainy night (marking
whatever seemed necessary to mark, sketching and taking pictures) and
brought the motor to the local electric motor shop for quote and hopefully
$500 region repairs for the commutator, bearings, brushes and springs.
Removing the motor was the easy part. everything on top was the trouble
(batteries, controllers, battery box that just barely got out, because the
previous owner added 2 battery holders to the front.
question, though my car savy roomate helped me pull the motor and didn't
seem to notice anything out of the ordinary, when detaching the bell
housing (motor side) from transmission side bell housing (the inside of the
bell is dry). only thing present inside the bell is the end of the
transmission grooves that slide into the clutch grooves which are attached
to the motor adapter plate.
[hopefully that last paragraph is correct terminology]
anyway, what is done is done and hopefully its all put back together with
ease.
Thanks, Ben
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--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 01:53:29PM -0800, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
<..snip..>
> I meant out of all pure EVs demonstrated, there was none with ceramic
> heater (unless I missed it). Perhaps they all are making the same basic
> mistake :-)
I'll bet it has to do with the cost of reengineering (removing) the
heater plumbing. Most pure EVs were more like factory conversions.
The Dodge TEVan has an 8Kw ceramic heater, that guy was super hot, and the
heat was instant on.
But the TEVan was made with Michigan winters in mind :)
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--- Begin Message ---
Joe Vitek wrote:
I know this may have been discussed in the recent past, but since I am on the
digest, I probably missed it.
I would like to use a go-kart as a test bed for smaller motors and controllers
(my own project with a friend). The side benefit being that my daughter will get
to have some fun with an electric go-kart. I think Lee is involved with stuff
like this.
1. Who, on here, has built an electric go-kart that performs as well or better
than the ones you can get with the 5hp Briggs&Stratton? Details?
2. What are some good parts sources for chassis, wheels, brakes, axles, etc.?
3. What size series motor would be good for an app like this?
4. This will be for an asphalt/concrete track.
I am thinking of doing a 48V setup with two batts between the leg area and two
behind the driver. I would like something really torquey and fun, but not
something that necessarily will do wheelstands (well, wheelstands would be fun
too ;).
Any ideas, suggestions, links to manufacturers, or flames are welcome. :)
--
joe vitek
I have ordered many a tool from Northern Tool... they have a
go-kart/mini-bike section:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category_6970_291701+93
They even have a DIY go-kart kit for asphalt/concrete, everything you
need minus the engine and clutch:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_1039461_1039461
Happy hunting!
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--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Lile wrote:
(Theoretically distilled water would work for this also, but it'd suck
all the copper out of your traces trying to become ionized water, then
it would be a fine conductor)
There are very high power, very high voltage water-cooled RF
transmitters that depend on the insulating properties of distilled
water. In fact, they boil the water, carry the steam to a
heatsink/radiator where it is cooled back into water, and is returned
for another pass. But, everything has to be made of, or plated with
corrosion resistant metals. They also have leakage current detectors
that will shut things down if something goes wrong and a contaminant
gets in the water.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For painting DC motor, Is high temp rustoleum black sufficient? (after
taping inlets and terminals with tape)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From a thread a week ago, any spray paint will do.
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 10:13:00 PM
Subject: motor paint
For painting DC motor, Is high temp rustoleum black sufficient? (after
taping inlets and terminals with tape)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
I apologize to anyone who has been frustrated by delays in
service. For what it's worth, I am also frustrated that I am not
able to respond as promptly as I would like. From the things I hear
from other EV suppliers, we are all putting in very busy hours and
long days. Here's a little context:
Although Electro Automotive started in 1979, it wasn't until the
mid-90s that there was enough demand for it to be a full time,
self-supporting, quit-your-day-job business, but even then not enough
to support actual employees. The gas prices of 2005 created a
phenomenal surge of interest, and it has continued to grow. But as
sales - and cash flow - increase in a linear fashion, inquiries and
workload increase geometrically. The workload is increasing faster
than the cash flow to hire employees to handle it. And much of what
we do cannot be easily delegated. Mike is the only one doing design
work here. We had been grooming a young man to take over much of the
CADD work, but just as we were looking forward to getting some
serious production out of him, some computer company offered him
$50k/year. We can't compete with that. Phones and email (about 50 a
day) require an information base that Mike and I can tap instantly
from 20+ years of living it day and night. You can't just drop
someone in front of the phone and have them take that over. I am
going to attempt to train someone to handle some of the easier
communications, but even that will take considerable time - which is
exactly what I am short of. We have been through more than half a
dozen employees in the past year, trying to find ones with the
aptitutde for the job that we can afford to hire.
Then there's parts that have always been available next day which
suddenly are backordered for weeks. Or out of production. Or
altered, requiring redesign for our kits. Then there's the customer
whose donor car has been messed with by a previous owner, and doesn't
really have the transmission he thinks it has. Or the car
manufacturer who changed flywheels for just two months of one
production year. Or the supplier who ships the wrong parts. Or UPS
that damages or loses them. Or the "simple little redesign" that
turns out to be a major project, with all sorts of hidden complications. Etc.
In short, we are working diligently to try to meet everyone's needs,
and also trying to improve our processes and hire and train people to
make things flow more smoothly and efficienly. But it's sort of like
trying to re-tune a gas car for better performance while driving it
at 90 mph.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
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