EV Digest 6164
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Double of WEB addresses
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: motor pilot bearing worn
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Double of WEB addresses
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Double of WEB addresses
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: brush inspection
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Don's 13 inch net gain
by "Dean Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Double of WEB addresses
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Don's 13 inch net gain
by "Dave Wilker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Going Clutchless - The Fat Lady Sings !
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Clutchless shifting
by "Chuck Hays" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: A MUST READ article on GM, Oil, Series PHEV's etc.
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: EV conversion kit for under $60
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Clutchless shifting
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Going Clutchless - The Fat Lady Sings !
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Wow that is wierd, seems harmless though.
I think it might be your email software trying to do something wtih the
second address inside the tag marks <>
Did you send out the original with the address twice on each line, i.e.
one plain and one inside the <> ?
If so what is the purpose of typing it a second time and enclosing it with
<> ?
> I just received the reply, so I will reply it again, and see how it looks
> now.
>
> Roland
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roland Wiench<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 8:21 AM
> Subject: Re: Double of WEB addresses
>
>
> Hello Peter,
>
> Ok, I will send you a WEB address. It may not double up at your end,
> but when you I received it back in a reply, I may get it double up,
> meaning it will print the WEB address that looks like:
>
>
> http://www.andersonpower.com<http://www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/>>
> http://www.andersonpower.com<http://www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/>>
>
> I type the above in a double up sample.
>
> Now I will type it as a normal address:
>
>
> http://www.andersonpower.com<http://www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/>>
>
> If you reply and I received this Email with this WEB on it, it may or
> may not double up on me.
>
> Lets see what's happens.
>
> If it does, then I will reply again, where you can see the last address
> has double.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter
> VanDerWal<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To:
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[EMAIL
> PROTECTED]:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 11:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Double of WEB addresses
>
>
> Just out of curiousity, what do you mean by double up? Can you send
> in an
> example?
>
> > Hello David,
> >
> > Ok, but when I get the reply back to me which I sent with the WEB
> address,
> > I get the WEB address double up. You say it does not double up when
> I
> > reply back to someone. I just have to live with this, because I do
> not
> > have to open up my WEB addresses I send and comes back to me.
> >
> > One time, I got a double up address generate by one person, and the
> rest
> > of the WEB addresses were ok.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
> long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That looks like this will work, if your transmission and bell housing is not
key together with guild pins or a recess that my bell housing is, flywheel and
transmission is.
There is a recess in the back of the flywheel that is press fit into the motor
flange. The bell housing is press fit into guild pins in the adapter plate
which is part of the back of the motor plate, which is recess into the motor
housing. The transmission also has a recess that is press fit into the bell
housing, so every is tight together.
I order a later model flywheel for a 1992 S-10 that also fits my 1976 GM bolt
pattern on my motor adapter. There was no recess flange on the back of this
flywheel, no guild pins and it would slopped around on the bolting holes, did
not use it.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: steve clunn<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: motor pilot bearing worn
Two things come to mine ,,, one with a gas engine you have oil dripping
every where so some of it is going to get on the pilot bearing and keep it
oiled (just a joke ) the other
is that the two shafts ( motor and tranny ) are not in line as bob says ,
. Here is something you can try . Bolt everything together Set your motor so
its drive end is pointing up and the tranny is sitting on top . spin the
motor with a 12v battery , listen to the noise it makes ,,, next take all
the bolts out that hold the adapter plate to the trannny out , and put
smaller ones in and tighten they slightly. Have the bolts lose enough that
you can move the tranny around while it sits on the motor but tight enough
so it won't move on its own. Hook your 12v battery up again and spin it
again . Your bolts will have to be lose enough that you can move the tranny
on the motor by tapping the tranny with a Hammer ( lightly !) Now just
start tapping on one side and another , if things get nosier that tap on the
other side , keep doing this till you find the spot where it makes the least
amount of noise . If you find this makes it runs quieter then before then
you have found your problem . You could clamp or tighten all but one bolt
and re drill it , then move on to the next or maybe use bigger bolts if
possible and drill bigger holes . Be sure you have the clutch disk in the
center . as you get closer to centering you can release the disk and let it
center its self , do this often as you getting things closer to center. I
show how to do this in detail on the how to video at
www.grassrootsev.com<http://www.grassrootsev.com/>
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: motor pilot bearing worn
> I'd say normal wear and tear, or that there is a
> slight angle or offset between the adapter plate and
> motor shaft. Even a few thousandths I've been told
> can make a difference. That's all I can think of...
>
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I picked up my motor today.
>> for $460 got commutator cut and polished, enamel
>> spray, pilot bearing
>> replaced, brushes and springs broken in and
>> installed
>>
>> So, I hope to remember how it all went back
>> together.
>>
>> My question,
>>
>> WHY would the pilot bearing wear down? The motor
>> repair guy didn't know
>> how the EV motor functions, so perhaps one of you
>> know what I did?
>> Chevy S10 into manual transmission.
>> I don't idle the motor.
>> the worst I can think I do to it are 2 things.
>> 1. start in 2nd gear; and use full acceleration
>> frequently
>> 2. when I coast to a stop, I will down shift from
>> 3rd to 2nd, and as I let
>> up the clutch, the motor rev's to a stop
>>
>> thank you, Ben
>>
>>
>
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> Learn more at:
>
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html<http://www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html>
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
> http://new.mail.yahoo.com<http://new.mail.yahoo.com/>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok Peter, here it comes back again, and its keeps doubling. I do not type the
<> in the web addresses. They just show up.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter VanDerWal<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Double of WEB addresses
Wow that is wierd, seems harmless though.
I think it might be your email software trying to do something wtih the
second address inside the tag marks <>
Did you send out the original with the address twice on each line, i.e.
one plain and one inside the <> ?
If so what is the purpose of typing it a second time and enclosing it with
<> ?
> I just received the reply, so I will reply it again, and see how it looks
> now.
>
> Roland
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roland Wiench<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 8:21 AM
> Subject: Re: Double of WEB addresses
>
>
> Hello Peter,
>
> Ok, I will send you a WEB address. It may not double up at your end,
> but when you I received it back in a reply, I may get it double up,
> meaning it will print the WEB address that looks like:
>
>
http://www.andersonpower.com<http://www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/>>>
>
http://www.andersonpower.com<http://www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/>>>
>
> I type the above in a double up sample.
>
> Now I will type it as a normal address:
>
>
http://www.andersonpower.com<http://www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/>>>
>
> If you reply and I received this Email with this WEB on it, it may or
> may not double up on me.
>
> Lets see what's happens.
>
> If it does, then I will reply again, where you can see the last address
> has double.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter
> VanDerWal<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>
> To:
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:[email protected]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[email protected]>>>
> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 11:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Double of WEB addresses
>
>
> Just out of curiousity, what do you mean by double up? Can you send
> in an
> example?
>
> > Hello David,
> >
> > Ok, but when I get the reply back to me which I sent with the WEB
> address,
> > I get the WEB address double up. You say it does not double up when
> I
> > reply back to someone. I just have to live with this, because I do
> not
> > have to open up my WEB addresses I send and comes back to me.
> >
> > One time, I got a double up address generate by one person, and the
> rest
> > of the WEB addresses were ok.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
> long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here it comes back again, and the addresses will get bigger and bigger.
If I received a WEB address from some one, it does not do this, even if I
reply. This only happens if I start the initial E-mail with the address.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Roland Wiench<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: Double of WEB addresses
Ok Peter, here it comes back again, and its keeps doubling. I do not type
the <> in the web addresses. They just show up.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter VanDerWal<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:[email protected]>>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Double of WEB addresses
Wow that is wierd, seems harmless though.
I think it might be your email software trying to do something wtih the
second address inside the tag marks <>
Did you send out the original with the address twice on each line, i.e.
one plain and one inside the <> ?
If so what is the purpose of typing it a second time and enclosing it with
<> ?
> I just received the reply, so I will reply it again, and see how it looks
> now.
>
> Roland
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roland Wiench<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:[email protected]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[email protected]>>>
> Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 8:21 AM
> Subject: Re: Double of WEB addresses
>
>
> Hello Peter,
>
> Ok, I will send you a WEB address. It may not double up at your end,
> but when you I received it back in a reply, I may get it double up,
> meaning it will print the WEB address that looks like:
>
>
http://www.andersonpower.com<http://www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/>>>>
>
http://www.andersonpower.com<http://www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/>>>>
>
> I type the above in a double up sample.
>
> Now I will type it as a normal address:
>
>
http://www.andersonpower.com<http://www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/>>>>
>
> If you reply and I received this Email with this WEB on it, it may or
> may not double up on me.
>
> Lets see what's happens.
>
> If it does, then I will reply again, where you can see the last address
> has double.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter
> VanDerWal<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>>
> To:
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:[email protected]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[email protected]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[email protected]>>>>
> Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 11:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Double of WEB addresses
>
>
> Just out of curiousity, what do you mean by double up? Can you send
> in an
> example?
>
> > Hello David,
> >
> > Ok, but when I get the reply back to me which I sent with the WEB
> address,
> > I get the WEB address double up. You say it does not double up when
> I
> > reply back to someone. I just have to live with this, because I do
> not
> > have to open up my WEB addresses I send and comes back to me.
> >
> > One time, I got a double up address generate by one person, and the
> rest
> > of the WEB addresses were ok.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
> long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Matt
First off you'll need to remove the comm end cover
band. It's the one with the big blower tube attached
to it. Once removed you'll see and have access to the
brushes. If they stick out above the holder then they
are still good. If they've sunk below and into the
holder then they are needing to be replaced.
I mention this because pulling or messing with a
seated brush can make brush noise untill they settle
back in. If they were good but you now have a new
noise it's just going to piss you off 8^ P
If you have to (or feel you have to, hehe) remove them
make a spring hook from a piece of coat hanger. I
make a big loop for the hold onto area with a small
(2" to 3") straight section and then bend a small hook
on the end. After removing the brush screw (don't
drop it into the motor) lift the spring and then slid
the brush out. This keeps you from scratching the
brush with the spring. This only matters if the
brushes are good still. This neat little self made
tool is really handy for lifting the springs when
installing the brushes back into the holders.
Once you remove the cover band take some pics if you
like and I'll take a look at them for you.
Anyway hope this helps.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Yahoo's spam catcher keeps grabbing messages with this header!
Probably because it says 13 inch and gain in the subject, which could lead
to a not-so-innocent message. LOL. Pretty impressive spam filter.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, it must be your client Perhaps it thinks it's an email address.
Try sending it as a full URL, i.e. instead of sending someplace.com, send
http://someplace.com
By prefixing http:// your email client should know it's a web address and
not an email address. Of course the lack of a @ aught to tell it that its
not an email address, but bugs happen.
> Ok Peter, here it comes back again, and its keeps doubling. I do not type
> the <> in the web addresses. They just show up.
>
> Roland
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter VanDerWal<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 9:08 AM
> Subject: Re: Double of WEB addresses
>
>
> Wow that is wierd, seems harmless though.
>
> I think it might be your email software trying to do something wtih the
> second address inside the tag marks <>
> Did you send out the original with the address twice on each line, i.e.
> one plain and one inside the <> ?
> If so what is the purpose of typing it a second time and enclosing it
> with
> <> ?
>
> > I just received the reply, so I will reply it again, and see how it
> looks
> > now.
> >
> > Roland
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Roland Wiench<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> > To:
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[EMAIL
> PROTECTED]:[email protected]>>
> > Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 8:21 AM
> > Subject: Re: Double of WEB addresses
> >
> >
> > Hello Peter,
> >
> > Ok, I will send you a WEB address. It may not double up at your
> end,
> > but when you I received it back in a reply, I may get it double up,
> > meaning it will print the WEB address that looks like:
> >
> >
> http://www.andersonpower.com<http://www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/>>>
> >
> http://www.andersonpower.com<http://www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/>>>
> >
> > I type the above in a double up sample.
> >
> > Now I will type it as a normal address:
> >
> >
> http://www.andersonpower.com<http://www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/<http://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/%3Chttp://www.andersonpower.com%3chttp//www.andersonpower.com/>>>
> >
> > If you reply and I received this Email with this WEB on it, it may
> or
> > may not double up on me.
> >
> > Lets see what's happens.
> >
> > If it does, then I will reply again, where you can see the last
> address
> > has double.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Peter
> > VanDerWal<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
> PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>
> > To:
> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[EMAIL
> PROTECTED]:[email protected]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL
> PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:[email protected]>>>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 11:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: Double of WEB addresses
> >
> >
> > Just out of curiousity, what do you mean by double up? Can you
> send
> > in an
> > example?
> >
> > > Hello David,
> > >
> > > Ok, but when I get the reply back to me which I sent with the
> WEB
> > address,
> > > I get the WEB address double up. You say it does not double up
> when
> > I
> > > reply back to someone. I just have to live with this, because I
> do
> > not
> > > have to open up my WEB addresses I send and comes back to me.
> > >
> > > One time, I got a double up address generate by one person, and
> the
> > rest
> > > of the WEB addresses were ok.
> > >
> > > Roland
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of
> legalistic
> > junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> > whatever I
> > wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
> > long
> > legalistic signature is void.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever
> I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
True, but you would also be introducing an eccentric action into the mix, by
only using one u-joint. The output shaft of the tranny and the input shaft
of the differential would not be parallel, which will cause the prop shaft
to speed up and slow down every 90 degrees.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: Don's 13 inch net gain
Just another random thought: If you used a torque tube, and let the motor
pivot for suspension action, you would get a couple of racing benefits:
The torque tube would double as a torque arm (like on a Camaro). This
pushes the rear axle down towards the ground when accelerating, greatly
improving traction.
You would be reacting the motor torque through the torque tube rather
than the car body. This would help preserve the suspension geometry, and
help the car corner a bit better.
----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 12:45:31 AM
Subject: Re: Don's 13 inch net gain
Storm Connors wrote:
Back in the "olde days" some vehicles used a torque tube so there
were no U-joints at all.
Dave Wilker wrote:
Torque tube driveshafts had u-joints, but just in the front, by the
transmission output shaft.
Torque tube suspensions either have a single U-joint at the back of the
motor (so the rear axle pivots on a line through the U-joint); or they
rigidly mount the motor to the drive shaft, so axle, shaft, and motor
all bounce up/down together, pivoting at some point on the motor in its
rubber mounts.
Many EVs use torque tube suspension with no U-joints, and with the motor
rigidly attached to the drive shaft. Many golf carts and industrial EVs
do this. So does the Tango, for that matter.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Jay Caplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]>To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Going Clutchless - The Fat Lady Sings !
>Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 09:21:45 -0600
Bob,
I had the same vibration from a flywheel maybe a little bit warped on my 79
LeCar (16xT105, Curtis 400A, stock Prestolite MTA-4001 with 10 degree
advanced timing) - very aggravating. So, I was thinking, why do we use
clutches anyway with electric motors and PWM controllers? I can see how
they
might be needed for parking using contactors, but with controllers ....?
Pulled the motor, threw away the pressure plate, throwout bearing, clutch
disk, flywheel, taper adapter - about 22 lbs of steel - big inertial drag
at
startup and slowdown, huge pile of angular momentum.
Replaced it with a ~1 lb adapter made from 2" steel bar. We bored it
through
to fit the motor shaft 1.125", cut a keyway and put in some headless set
screws. On the other end, turned the splined hub from the clutch disk to
the
same 1.125 diameter, cut some chamfers for weld bead, pressed it into the
adapter and welded it all around , then faced it off on a mill. This hooks
the motor to the splined trans shaft. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/727
some pictures here, contact me off list if you want to see some more
pictures or details or to have an adapter made.
OK, the results - it is a lot faster off the line, especially the 0-10 mph,
slows down sooner when you are coasting to traffic lights (saves braking),
and SHIFTS LIKE A DREAM. I mean, it just flops into gear, the synchronizers
have so much less mass to slow down. Upshifts in 1 second, downshifts in 2
seconds. Much peppier. And NO VIBRATION.
So, someone tell me, why not clutchless for everyone?
Jay
I can thing of a few reasons for and against "clutchless" shifting:
For clutchless
less vehicle weight,
less rotational inertia ( more significant in first gears
and/or if you're racing)
For keeping the clutch :
faster shifting,
less synchro wear
emergency motor disconnect ( in case of "full-on" controller
failure)
longer time to motor over-speed due to more rotational
inertia.
Your vibration problem was not because you had a clutch - it's because you
had something wrong. (misalignment, warped flywheel, etc) . You could have
ended up with a vibration problem with your clutchless setup, too, if you
had badly machined parts.
And, is your car really faster getting to, say, 60MPH if takes that much
longer to shift?
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
View Athletes Collections with Live Search
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Could you use this method with a gas engine?
Back in the days when Real Men(tm) wouldn't be
caught dead driving a sissy automatic, a lot of
people shifted without the clutch.
As long as you're applying force to them with
acceleration or deceleration, the gears are held
in engagement. When there's no force applied
they will unmesh with ease (ever move the shift
to another gear with the engine off?).
The difference here is that instead of letting your
synchro spin up an electric motor, you have to
develop a feel for matching engine speed to
tranny speed with the accelerator. It also needs
a fine touch on the gearshift to feel the tips of
the gears coming up to synchrony.
Perversely, it's easiest with a monster diesel under
the hood. As you let up on the foot feed you can
slide it out of gear, then continue easing up until
it just slips right in the next gear up. The procedure
is different for downshifting -- you have to match
the engine speed by adding fuel to speed it up.
Air and electric shifters on drag racers work with
no clutch (beyond getting going the first time).
When you hit the shift button it kills the ignition
for just a blink, which unloads the tranny. Then
the solenoid or actuator fires and shoots the
tranny into the next gear up.
Seems like the far lower rotating mass of an
electric motor would make this a breeze.
Chuck Hays
Kamloops, BC
_________________________________________________________________
Download now! Visit http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/ to enter and see
how cool it is to get Messenger with you on your cell phone.
http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
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--- Begin Message ---
Just in case that link goes dead, the relevant part of that article is
at the end:
= = start quote = =
I do know that GM is planning a tightly closed backroom discussion on
its upcoming series hybrid for next month; nothing that is to be said
in that room can be repeated or reported. And, while I wonder who is
going to be attending that meeting under those conditions, this
information leads me to believe that GM is on the verge of doing
something really, really big.
Cross Your Fingers
Personally, I hope these rumors are true. This product would make GM
more responsible for balancing our foreign policy than all the
politicians in Washington. And if this became a standard for the
nation, just 2 million of them selling out of the 16 million cars
Americans buy each year, it would cut our gasoline use by 1.35 billion
gallons of gas in the very first year � meaning we would need 194,664
fewer barrels of oil each and every day. That�s enough to start
offsetting the (currently lacking) new oil production needed
worldwide; and obviously, GM could offer this series hybrid in Europe
and China, causing similar declines in their crude oil demand.
My biggest fear is that GM is hinting about something it won�t be able
to deliver for years, if at all. GM has, it must be noted, made
promises in the past, including its hype on hydrogen fuel-celled
vehicles, that were little more than pipedreams.
It is not hyperbole to say that GM�s entire future and reputation is
going to be wrapped up in this propulsion unit. Forget Washington,
forget ethanol, forget the Middle East and the long-range potential
for a U.S. war with China some day over oil resources: If this vehicle
truly is in the works, General Motors could finally and decisively
beat the Japanese at their own game � and make oil irrelevant to the
world�s security equation.
Still, the clock is ticking. Even if GM made the announcement at the
Detroit Auto Show in January, Honda and Toyota could kick into passing
gear and beat GM to the market; the world would still win, but GM�s
reputation would take its final tarnishing.
Forget praying for peace. If you want peace, pray for GM.
= = = end quote = = =
On 11/20/06, Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This areticle was written up on the CalCars News group. I think it is
too important to be left Un-Read by the EV community at large...
I urge you all to read it:
It can be found at:
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/classifieds/automotive/16018943.htm
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Note that no throttle is included, you still need
to add that 5 kOhm potmeter and hook it up or
(as this aution states) use the supplied parts
as replacements for a failed eBike or scooter.
Or find a throttle from someone that replaced it,
I think I have a spare throttle that came with my
eBike in the garage. Not sure if the connectors
would match this controller - it looks as if it
has 5 connectors.
The first 3 are easy:
- motor
- throttle
- battery
The other 2 may include a safety switch
(stop if there is no pressure on the footrest,
because likely the person fell off the scooter)
and the charger input?
(My charger plugs straight into the battery,
so I am not sure if that would apply here too)
The only other thing I can think of is a
"State of Charge" display.
Note that the battery wires are snipped, so that
connector is also missing.
I think the largest challenge with this kit
(after finding and installing a matching wheel
sprocket) will be finding and installing the
right connectors, or to snip connectors off the
controller and still connect all wires in the
right places.
It seems as the kit comes with a wiring diagram,
so if you are comfortable with that and document
all wires where you removed connectors, then this
kit may be good for you.
(The above description not to scare anyone away,
but to give you an idea as to what you are getting
so to avoid disappointment AFTER the sale.)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 9:00 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: EV conversion kit for under $60
Hi Folks,
SInce we have a few newbies I thought I'd post this. I always reccomend
that when experimenting with EVs you start small. It's a lot cheaper that
way and the learnign process is almost the same.
Anyway, I came across this auction on ebay for a complete set for a
scooter/E-bike; batteries, charger, motor, controller, #25 sprocket and
chain.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160054757472
There are only 10 of them, so if you're interested, you better hurry.
P.S. MECI, aka Mendelson's, is a great surplus place to visit if you're
ever in Dayton Ohio. Imagine a warehouse that's three stories tall and
just about fills a city block.
Actually I think it's four stories, but one floor is off limits to
customers, or it was last time I was there.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
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I cannot shift my large GE motor by moving in neutral and waiting until the
motor matches the speed of the transmission input shaft. I have to move very
quickly from one gear to another and this work with gear ratios of 13.5:1 and
below.
If I wait too long in neutral, the motor is going faster then the drive line
and it won't never match up, unlike a ICE where you can give it a little gas
to match the rpms.
I am running over 19.5:1 gear ratios at times and this slows the drive train
down very fast on level grade and have to wait until the vehicle comes to a
stop before I can shift it.
If I move to neutral about three blocks before I have to stop, the motor
running at 6000 rpm continues to rotate. Stop at a red light for over a minute,
the motor is still spinning.
So I take advantage of this motor spinning by pushing in the clutch and may put
it in neutral before I come to a stop. I may put it in neutral if the light is
over 15 seconds, wait for the light to change and the motor may still be
spinning and release the clutch and off I go reducing the acceleration motor
ampere.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Hays<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 10:19 AM
Subject: RE: Clutchless shifting
>From: Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
>Could you use this method with a gas engine?
Back in the days when Real Men(tm) wouldn't be
caught dead driving a sissy automatic, a lot of
people shifted without the clutch.
As long as you're applying force to them with
acceleration or deceleration, the gears are held
in engagement. When there's no force applied
they will unmesh with ease (ever move the shift
to another gear with the engine off?).
The difference here is that instead of letting your
synchro spin up an electric motor, you have to
develop a feel for matching engine speed to
tranny speed with the accelerator. It also needs
a fine touch on the gearshift to feel the tips of
the gears coming up to synchrony.
Perversely, it's easiest with a monster diesel under
the hood. As you let up on the foot feed you can
slide it out of gear, then continue easing up until
it just slips right in the next gear up. The procedure
is different for downshifting -- you have to match
the engine speed by adding fuel to speed it up.
Air and electric shifters on drag racers work with
no clutch (beyond getting going the first time).
When you hit the shift button it kills the ignition
for just a blink, which unloads the tranny. Then
the solenoid or actuator fires and shoots the
tranny into the next gear up.
Seems like the far lower rotating mass of an
electric motor would make this a breeze.
Chuck Hays
Kamloops, BC
_________________________________________________________________
Download now! Visit
http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/<http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/> to
enter and see
how cool it is to get Messenger with you on your cell phone.
http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/<http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
I hope all who celebrate it, had a wonderful and fulfilling Thanksgiving!
OK, now on to make take on going clutchless....
Jay Caplan wrote:
I was thinking, why do we use
clutches anyway with electric motors and PWM controllers?
Short answer...to keep the car pleasant and fun to drive! This is
especially true if your EV is a higher performance type that has enough
power to run 0-60 in the 6-7 second range (or even quicker). Having a
beefy clutch mated to a machined-down lightened flywheel and feeding a
4, 5, or 6 speed tranny allows one to power-shift on the 1-2 up-shift
and the 2-3 up-shift in a swift fashion resulting in neck-snapping
acceleration that barks the tires and presses you back into the seat.
Try that in a clutchless affair and you'll either not be able to get the
gear change accomplished, or you will get it done after a full second or
two accompanied by grinding gear teeth. A fun and smooth experience,
this is not!
From Tony Hwang:
Shifting with the clutchless design is slower than with a clutch. These are the
steps involved:
Release the accelerator pedal
Shift into neutral
Push the gearshift lightly toward the gear you want
Wait for the synchromech in the gear box to either speed up or slow down the motor
until it matches speeds and drops into gear
You may now step on the accelerator pedal again
Yeah, this is pretty accurate. When in my EV formative years way back in
the electric car dark ages of 1980, I tried this method with my 48V
contactor controlled 4 speed Datsun. It 'worked', but it was anything
but elegant. Shifting was exactly as Tony has described.
If one never drives their EV in a spirited manor, and instead of a fun
playmate your vehicle is merely an appliance to get you from point A to
point B, and if you don't care about having to follow a 'procedure' in
order to change gears without forcing things, going clutchless can work
for you. I imagine the type that accepts a whining, under-powered lower
tech Curtis 1231C controller, or a crude contactor rectactor type
jerking controller, an over-weight heavy pack of oozing, corrosion
producing wet cells mandating 3000+ lbs. of weight in a smaller sized
car, and 0-60 in 17-20 seconds as being OK, wouldn't mind the
clutchless shifting thing at all.
For the others out there (what I call the new breed of EVers) who want
their EV to look good, handle good, and perform well, none of the above
is acceptable. These are the type that want a silent and powerful Zilla
or DC Power systems controller, the type that would never accept
fizzling acid spraying wet cell batteries and prefer maintenance-free
powerful 12V AGMs like Hawkers, Optimas and Orbitals, the type that want
their EV to be at least as snappy as it was a gas car, the type that
would spend money on a hot sound system, the type that care about the
condition of the body and interior, and yes, the type that wants to have
a little fun and passion thrown into the design of their EV!
More from Jay Caplan:
SHIFTS LIKE A DREAM. Upshifts in 1 second, downshifts in 2
seconds. Much peppier. And NO VIBRATION.
Your 3000+ lb. Renault LeCar's 96V worth of wet cells will sag to 85V at
the 400 amps your Curtis controller can handle, making just 34 kw, which
translates to about 40 hp. In such a heavy little car, this comes out to
a 0-60 time in the 20 second range and puts you into the first category
of EVer I've outlined above. If you accept this type of machine, of
course losing another 2 seconds in the two up-shifts on your way to 60
mph won't bother you. If you're already waiting a l-o-n-g third of a
minute to get up to highway speeds is OK, what's another 2 seconds?
So, someone tell me, why not clutchless for everyone?
Because thankfully, the majority of folks who drive and are currently
converting cars to electric power don't consider this type of
restrictive performance and crude levels of the driving experience
acceptable.
As to your before and after descriptions for 'your' car, I can see why
for you, it seems to be an improvement. Before going clutchless you
evidently had vibration issues. However, these could have been solved by
a well machined adapter set and lightened flywheel that would have
produced turbine-smooth results. Of course, this method is a lot more
costly. You say its 0-10 mph acceleration is improved by not having to
spool up the flywheel...I would agree with your assessment. With a scant
40 hp to work with, 'anything' to reduce the initial work load would be
welcome. On the other hand, if your EV had adequate power for its
current weight, say 150 hp instead of a mere 40 hp, the difference
between spinning up a lightened flywheel or not would be imperceptible.
Having the ability to properly shift with a clutch with this level of
ample power would however, eclipse the fractional increase you notice in
the 0-10 mph range with a sizzling 0-60 in the same time it takes your
current setup to hit 20 mph.
I don't mean to sound discouraging, but when I hear a question like 'why
not clutchless for everyone?', tied in with a sluggish older tech EV
design like a 96V, 40 hp 3000 lb. LeCar, I feel the need to respond.
I'd modify your statement by framing the comment like this... For those
with lower voltage, lower powered, lower performing, heavy range
oriented EVs, why not clutchless for everyone? At least in this context,
you'll be addressing others with similar electric vehicles who might
just take your idea to heart, not the EV community as a whole. When the
type of EV you have forces you to drive in the slow lane, forces you to
pull to the right to let others get around you on hills, and in general
doesn't even hint at performance, the additional performance hit of
taking a bit more time to do an up-shift and taking even more time to do
a down-shift isn't any big deal.
I can tell you that for today's EV conversions that have modern gas car
type performance and use a manual tranny, doing it without the ability
to smoothly shift is totally unacceptable.
See Ya.....John Wayland
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