EV Digest 6200
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Regenerative Cruising
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Need a Rev Limiter
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Regenerative Cruising
by Jordan Crane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Fuel Cells
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: [EV] Re: Need a Rev Limiter
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Fuel Cells
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Fuel Cells
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Trikes
by "brougham Baker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Ride Offer to AltCar Expo from SF Bay Area
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Fuel Cells
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Fuel Cells
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Trikes
by "Doc Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Trikes
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: [EV] Re: Need a Rev Limiter
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Marty's Mailster
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Fuel Cell
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Fuel Cells
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) AGM's on end?
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Fuel Cell
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Ride Offer to AltCar Expo from SF Bay Area
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Motor arrived: Thanks, Jim!
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Fuel Cell
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) EV wiring
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Motor arrived: Thanks, Jim! and wasted youth
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Introduction
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Fuel Cell
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Marty's Mailster
by "Marty Escarcega" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Uhm, I think this issue has been beaten to death already...
On 12/7/06, Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jordan,
Say your checking account charges you 10 cents per check written (not
100% efficient like a generator). Can you write checks to deposit in
the same checking account and make the total deposit larger? This
shows you that generator on wheel will not get your more range. It
will actually decrease your range.
However, if you have a check from a company call Kinetic Co. (kinetic
energy from a moving car) or Potential Co. (potential energy from
being high up the hill), you could deposit it to the checking account
and make the total deposit larger. This shows that regen braking do
recharge the batteries and get you more range. You will need a source
for the extra energy though.
On 12/6/06, Jordan Crane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yes sir, I understand the perpetual motion impossibility. I know
> the car will slow down when you remove your foot from the
> accelerator, and I actually do understand the physics. That's
> not what I'm asking. Please let me rephrase my question then.
>
> I'm interested in capturing all energy that is not being used. So.
> Here's a scenario. You're driving in town. You see up ahead
> about a block and a half that the light is red, so you take your
> foot from the accellerator. The car then begins to slow because
> of wind and friction. However, you've put in energy to get the
> weight of the car moving that fast, so there's some potential
> there. The state that the car is in: It is slowing down, but the
> brakes are not being applied. The motor is spinning. A current
> is being generated. This is collectable, correct?
>
> Another scenario, if you'll bear with me. Imagine that your car
> is just a generator on wheels. You push it to the top of a hill,
> and let it roll down. It generates some electricity. That's the
> electricity I'm talking about capturing.
>
>
>
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> r e d d i n g k
>
> 1668 west boulevard. los angeles, CA 90019
> (323) 857 . 5326 http://www.reddingk.com
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Jude,
The best rev limiter I use is eyeballing a tach.
This is my first car with a tach, but I've just gotten the EVParts tach
sender. It should hook up to my tach with no problem.
But, I expect my wife to drive occasionally, maybe to let a friend or
two try it out, and eventually to give it to my kid. I don't want
another circa-$1000 repair because somebody else didn't realize what
could happen.
So I'm pretty set on getting the limiter. I just have to find a good one.
Jude Anthony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Say, I've got a terrific idea! What if I put a cherry picker on the
back of my car, and that way whenever I broke down, I could
just attach the cherry picker to the roof of the car, lift the car up,
and have a look around. How easy would that be?
But seriously. Imagine if I had a check from Perpetual Co. to
deposit in my account! That'd be swell. Or Cold Fusion Co.
Think of all the checks I could write!
>Uhm, I think this issue has been beaten to death already...
>
>On 12/7/06, Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Jordan,
>>
>>Say your checking account charges you 10 cents per check written (not
>>100% efficient like a generator). Can you write checks to deposit in
>>the same checking account and make the total deposit larger? This
>>shows you that generator on wheel will not get your more range. It
>>will actually decrease your range.
>>
>>However, if you have a check from a company call Kinetic Co. (kinetic
>>energy from a moving car) or Potential Co. (potential energy from
>>being high up the hill), you could deposit it to the checking account
>>and make the total deposit larger. This shows that regen braking do
>>recharge the batteries and get you more range. You will need a source
>>for the extra energy though.
>>
>>On 12/6/06, Jordan Crane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes sir, I understand the perpetual motion impossibility. I know
>>> the car will slow down when you remove your foot from the
>>> accelerator, and I actually do understand the physics. That's
>>> not what I'm asking. Please let me rephrase my question then.
>>>
>>> I'm interested in capturing all energy that is not being used. So.
>>> Here's a scenario. You're driving in town. You see up ahead
>>> about a block and a half that the light is red, so you take your
>>> foot from the accellerator. The car then begins to slow because
>>> of wind and friction. However, you've put in energy to get the
>>> weight of the car moving that fast, so there's some potential
>>> there. The state that the car is in: It is slowing down, but the
>>> brakes are not being applied. The motor is spinning. A current
>>> is being generated. This is collectable, correct?
>>>
>>> Another scenario, if you'll bear with me. Imagine that your car
>>> is just a generator on wheels. You push it to the top of a hill,
>>> and let it roll down. It generates some electricity. That's the
>>> electricity I'm talking about capturing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>> r e d d i n g k
>>>
>>> 1668 west boulevard. los angeles, CA 90019
>>> (323) 857 . 5326 http://www.reddingk.com
>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Edward Ang
>>President
>>AIR Lab Corp
>>
>
>
>--
>www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, Dec 07, 2006 at 08:38:58AM -0700, Roland Wiench wrote:
>
<..snip..>
> The other type of fuel cell, AFC (Alkaline Fuel Cell), uses a circulating
> liquid electrolyte. It can shut down for long periods which make it ideal
> for EV. To shut it down, just turn off the switch and the electrolyte is
> automatically removed from the stacks and the AFC becomes inactive.
Here is what I found when I did a Google search for "Alkaline Fuel Cell":
http://www.fctec.com/fctec_types_afc.asp
One characteristic of AFCs is that they are very sensitive to CO2 that may be
present in the fuel or air. The CO2 reacts with the electrolyte, poisoning it
rapidly, and severely degrading the fuel cell performance. Therefore, AFCs are
limited to closed environments, such as space and undersea vehicles, and must
be run on pure hydrogen and oxygen. Furthermore, molecules such as CO, H2O and
CH4, which are harmless or even work as fuels to other fuel cells, are poisons
to an AFC.
On the positive side, AFCs are the cheapest fuel cells to manufacture. This is
because the catalyst that is required on the electrodes can be any of a number
of different materials that are relatively inexpensive compared to the
catalysts required for other types of fuel cells.
AFCs are not being considered for automobile applications. Their sensitivity to
poisoning, which requires use of pure or cleansed hydrogen and oxygen, is an
insurmountable obstacle at the present time. Conversely, AFCs operate at
relatively low temperatures and are among the most efficient fuel cells,
characteristics that would enable a quick starting power source and high fuel
efficiency, respectively.
Sounds like these may not be a silver bullet.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> A ADC motor will have to have its brush end shaft extended by center tapping
> a length of shaft to screw on the motor shaft. The pick up magnetic disk
> which I made my self is a 1/4 inch thick disk that is 3.25 inch in diameter.
> Four 1/4 neo-magnets are install at 90 degrees apart on a 2.75 inch circle.
> This aluminum disk is than bolt to a split collar which are made for shafts
> which clamps on the shaft with angle set screws.
>
> The evparts store has a clamp on sender and tach to match too.
>
Then you feed it into a 8 or 4 cyl tach? I think 4 per rev is 8 cyl, right?
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
| Yo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Nick,
The type of unit they are describing is using a KOH potassium hydroxide as a
electrolyte in a solution of water which could be 1.200 sg.
The other type of fuel cell uses a two stage type, that first breaks down
NH3 or anhydrous ammonia to hydrogen and nitrogen.
I can get NH3 in large bulk from a agriculture chemical company down the
street from me. Mix it with distill water at about 20% solution and make it
for $0.70 a gallon.
So I will wait and see what happens. Like I said before, this would not be
ideal for my type of EV driving which is 99 percent city with a lot of stop
and go. Could use it for a remote work site to runs lights and to keep
tools charge.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Austin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: Fuel Cells
> On Thu, Dec 07, 2006 at 08:38:58AM -0700, Roland Wiench wrote:
> >
> <..snip..>
>
> > The other type of fuel cell, AFC (Alkaline Fuel Cell), uses a
> > circulating
> > liquid electrolyte. It can shut down for long periods which make it
> > ideal
> > for EV. To shut it down, just turn off the switch and the electrolyte
> > is
> > automatically removed from the stacks and the AFC becomes inactive.
>
> Here is what I found when I did a Google search for "Alkaline Fuel Cell":
>
> http://www.fctec.com/fctec_types_afc.asp
>
> One characteristic of AFCs is that they are very sensitive to CO2 that may
> be
> present in the fuel or air. The CO2 reacts with the electrolyte, poisoning
> it
> rapidly, and severely degrading the fuel cell performance. Therefore, AFCs
> are
> limited to closed environments, such as space and undersea vehicles, and
> must
> be run on pure hydrogen and oxygen. Furthermore, molecules such as CO, H2O
> and
> CH4, which are harmless or even work as fuels to other fuel cells, are
> poisons
> to an AFC.
>
> On the positive side, AFCs are the cheapest fuel cells to manufacture.
> This is
> because the catalyst that is required on the electrodes can be any of a
> number
> of different materials that are relatively inexpensive compared to the
> catalysts required for other types of fuel cells.
>
> AFCs are not being considered for automobile applications. Their
> sensitivity to
> poisoning, which requires use of pure or cleansed hydrogen and oxygen, is
> an
> insurmountable obstacle at the present time. Conversely, AFCs operate at
> relatively low temperatures and are among the most efficient fuel cells,
> characteristics that would enable a quick starting power source and high
> fuel
> efficiency, respectively.
>
>
>
> Sounds like these may not be a silver bullet.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually "onesies" are often a surplus situation, where things can be
found for a fraction of the market price.
Onesie or not, hydrogen fuel cells are currently very expensive because
they require a substantial amount of platinum. Their operation is not
all that simple either.
There are no extremely practical ways to store large amounts of
hydrogen. It takes a whole lot of energy to crygenically liquify it,
then it requires a really high-tech storage vessel. There are ways to
store it as a solid metal hydrate and then cook it off by warming the
solid. Not a really high weight/volume density solution and the
operation is not simple like turning on a tap.
Danny
From: "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:14 AM
Subject: Fuel Cells
Has anyone looked into a fuel cell as either a range extender, emergency
charger, etc. in an EV?
I imagine they would be too expensive in onesie quanitities to power the
vehicle, but a small one might be able to charge the vehicle over time, if
you weren't close to a plug. Might also provide an opportunity for
alternative fuels - hydrogen and so forth.
--Lawrence Lile
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there a different way to refer to trikes for the two different
configurations?
with two wheels up front they are called?
with two wheels at the back they are called?
I've noticed that quite a few ICE modders use the Hayabusa engines. This
must mean that there are a large number of gearboxes and swing arms for
these bikes about. I was thinking of grafting one of these to the back end
of a small eurobox. The gearbox will take 14,000 RPM so perfect for an AC
motor.
--
Brougham
"I'm sick and tired of hearing that 'health and safety' is stopping people
doing worthwhile and enjoyable things. If you're using health and safety to
stop everyday activities, get a life and let others get on with theirs."
Bill Callaghan (Health and Safety Commission chair)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
I am heading to the AltCar Expo this Saturday early morning and coming
back the same day. Should arrive late at night. If you are
interested, I can give you a ride. We can talk about EV or non-EV
stuff.
Reply directly to me EdAng at airlabcorp dot com.
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Something tells me that you wouldn't want a nuclear reactor in your car it
may meltdown and destroy the entire city!
From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Fuel Cells
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:41:43 -0800
What did the new sub do differently than the old nuclear subs that need
refueling every few years?
On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:18 am, Tony Hwang wrote:
I was reading somewhere about a new sub that is nuclear powered, that
would NEVER need refueling.
This would be much better for an EV car than fuel cells. "Infinite" range.
I've been working on a energy storage unit like this and have made one the
size of a shoebox. :)
- Tony
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Different
discussion list.
The system (including its fuel tank) would weigh more than the
equivalent Li-Ion battery pack. It would also cost many times more.
Certainly more complicated. It also would not last as long. (They
have earned their reputation as "Fool Cells".)
Anyway, where would you get the hydrogen?
Bill D.
At 06:14 AM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
Has anyone looked into a fuel cell as either a range extender,
emergency charger, etc. in an EV?
I imagine they would be too expensive in onesie quanitities to power
the vehicle, but a small one might be able to charge the vehicle
over time, if you weren't close to a plug. Might also provide an
opportunity for alternative fuels - hydrogen and so forth.
--Lawrence Lile
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and
the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
_________________________________________________________________
Off to school, going on a trip, or moving? Windows Live (MSN) Messenger lets
you stay in touch with friends and family wherever you go. Click here to
find out how to sign up! http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Again these are PEM cells you are talking about that uses a metal catalyst
of platinum and palladium. The PEM cells are not cost effected as compare
to AFC cells.
I experiment in making one stack using platinum and palladium. The negative
and positive plates are platinum and the electrolyte solution is distill
water and palladium beads which are about 0.01 or less in diameter.
The platinum came from the Fisher Lab. Supply Company, that cost $125.00 per
sq.cm. with a thickness of 1 mm. The palladium came from a new catalytic
converter which was plated on plastic beads which was cheaper than
purchasing palladium from Fisher.
Applying about 10 volts at 4 amps to the electrodes, the hydrogen in the
water attaches to the palladium thus releasing the oxygen into another
chamber.
After all the oxygen is release, then the exciting current is remove and
than the hydrogen is release. This is the first stage of a PEM cell or
similar cell.
It was found when the Dow chemical Co. was doing this experiment, the
electrolyte exchange would provide heat, which could be using in a heating
system.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: Fuel Cells
> Actually "onesies" are often a surplus situation, where things can be
> found for a fraction of the market price.
>
> Onesie or not, hydrogen fuel cells are currently very expensive because
> they require a substantial amount of platinum. Their operation is not
> all that simple either.
> There are no extremely practical ways to store large amounts of
> hydrogen. It takes a whole lot of energy to crygenically liquify it,
> then it requires a really high-tech storage vessel. There are ways to
> store it as a solid metal hydrate and then cook it off by warming the
> solid. Not a really high weight/volume density solution and the
> operation is not simple like turning on a tap.
>
> Danny
>
> >From: "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:14 AM
> >Subject: Fuel Cells
> >
> >
> >Has anyone looked into a fuel cell as either a range extender, emergency
> >charger, etc. in an EV?
> >
> >I imagine they would be too expensive in onesie quanitities to power the
> >vehicle, but a small one might be able to charge the vehicle over time,
> >if
> >you weren't close to a plug. Might also provide an opportunity for
> >alternative fuels - hydrogen and so forth.
> >
> >--Lawrence Lile
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One pair of definitions are "tadpole" for two in front and one in rear, and
"delta" for one in front and
two in back. These are 'borrowed' form The Atomic Zombie, extreme bicycle
builder.
Doc Kennedy
On 12/7/06, brougham Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is there a different way to refer to trikes for the two different
configurations?
with two wheels up front they are called?
with two wheels at the back they are called?
I've noticed that quite a few ICE modders use the Hayabusa engines. This
must mean that there are a large number of gearboxes and swing arms for
these bikes about. I was thinking of grafting one of these to the back end
of a small eurobox. The gearbox will take 14,000 RPM so perfect for an AC
motor.
--
Brougham
"I'm sick and tired of hearing that 'health and safety' is stopping people
doing worthwhile and enjoyable things. If you're using health and safety
to
stop everyday activities, get a life and let others get on with theirs."
Bill Callaghan (Health and Safety Commission chair)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
2 wheels up front are tadpole
2 in back are delta
--- brougham Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is there a different way to refer to trikes for the
> two different
> configurations?
>
> with two wheels up front they are called?
> with two wheels at the back they are called?
>
> I've noticed that quite a few ICE modders use the
> Hayabusa engines. This
> must mean that there are a large number of gearboxes
> and swing arms for
> these bikes about. I was thinking of grafting one of
> these to the back end
> of a small eurobox. The gearbox will take 14,000 RPM
> so perfect for an AC
> motor.
>
> --
> Brougham
>
> "I'm sick and tired of hearing that 'health and
> safety' is stopping people
> doing worthwhile and enjoyable things. If you're
> using health and safety to
> stop everyday activities, get a life and let others
> get on with theirs."
> Bill Callaghan (Health and Safety Commission chair)
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Eduardo,
My tach is a 4 inch diameter Stewart Warner tach that has adjustments on the
rear of the tach for a 4, 6 or 8 cyclinder. So its best to get a tach with
those adjustments.
When my EV was a parallel hybrid at one time, it had a 6 cylinder in it and
it ran the tach fine. Connecting to a 4 pulse pickup for the electric
motor, I don't remember if I adjusted it to 4 cylinder. I try it without
adjusting it and it works fine.
Of course I am running it through the Zilla and to the tach and Otmar told
me to select the 4 cylinder setting. I did not adjust it because it was
very hard to get to the back of the tach, so I try it where it was and it
work.
To test out to see if the tach matches the speed using the mph speedo. I use
the following formula:
Rpm x Tire Circumference
Mph -------------------------
Gear Ratio x 1056
Note: The Gear ratio is the overall gear ratio of the transmission rear
ratios times the differential ratio.
The tire circumference is measure by putting a mark on the tire and rolling
it one turn and measure between the marks on a floor.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eduardo Kaftanski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [EV] Re: Need a Rev Limiter
> >
> > A ADC motor will have to have its brush end shaft extended by center
> > tapping
> > a length of shaft to screw on the motor shaft. The pick up magnetic
> > disk
> > which I made my self is a 1/4 inch thick disk that is 3.25 inch in
> > diameter.
> > Four 1/4 neo-magnets are install at 90 degrees apart on a 2.75 inch
> > circle.
> > This aluminum disk is than bolt to a split collar which are made for
> > shafts
> > which clamps on the shaft with angle set screws.
> >
> > The evparts store has a clamp on sender and tach to match too.
> >
>
> Then you feed it into a 8 or 4 cyl tach? I think 4 per rev is 8 cyl,
> right?
>
>
> --
> Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
> http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
> http://e.nn.cl |
> | Yo.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chuck, Marty and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Chuck Hays" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Marty's Mailster
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:35:15 +0000
>>From: "Marty Escarcega" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>>My commute is 3 miles flat each direction. I believe I can
>>plug in at work. I estimated the top speed as there is a
>>sticker on the visor that said do not exceed 35mph.
>
>Man, sounds like you're in a perfect position to
>make that thing work out for you. You'd have
>all-weather commuting and enough room for
>a couple sacks of groceries and a flat of beer
>on the way home.
I agree!! This can be a great little EV if done,
used right.
>
>>Is it better to keep the clutch or do away with it?
>
>My thought is that it's better to keep it. As I
>recall, those little trannies could be a little
>cranky even at the best of times, but that
>could just have been fleet maintenance. I
>used to double-clutch a lot.
I wouldn't use the clutch or transmission as they
will probably break. And at 35 mph you are always in first
gear anyways.
A big problem with clutch/transmission EV's is if you
miss a shift, clutch when you shouldn't, you can quickly
over rev the motor, ruining it. All production EV's I know
of are direct drive.
The best bet for Marty would be replace the
ICE//transaxle with one from a 8-12 passenger golf cart
style transporter or other EV transaxle. You can use almost
any GC transaxle and buy a larger motor for it as there are
many GC hotrod shops selling them on the web. D+D Motors,
the old ADC motors owners, being about the best. These will
probablly just bolt right in, mostly being leaf spring
suspensions. I should also mention this will be less work
than adapting your clutch/motor.
>I see there are various places on the Web
>where you can get Mailster parts, so finding
>clutch plates wouldn't be a big deal hopefully.
>I'd be looking at Barnett kevlar just because
>you'd only have to replace it once, imho.
>
>I've got a kevlar clutch on my Harley and it's
>bulletproof.
>
>>I've heard you can do without the clutch, drop it and
>leave it in 2nd gear?
Or even first depending on motor, pack voltage for
more road torque.
>
>Might be some times being able to shift on
>the fly would be good. What I hear in here is
>that you'll want to keep an eye on how many
>amps you're drawing at different speeds.
More important is keeping an eye on the speedo as
they should not go faster than 35mph!! Luckily for you is
with batteries correctly placed, will greatly improve it's
CG/handling to fair rather than poor. But I'd still not go
faster than 35mph as if you have to quick steer above that
speed, it will try to roll over. For turns you must slow way
down. But driven correctly, it can be a fun, cost efective,
useful EV. I'd do one.
Jerry Dycus
>
>Chuck Hays
>Kamloops, BC
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The movie industry uses extremely quiet "studio" diesel generators
routinely. They make about the same noise as a Lexus idling.
for example:
http://www.jobsite-generators.com/entertainment_studio_generators.html
If you want something smaller, they make nifty little, very very
quiet, generators for RVs. If you look just a bit, you can find small
diesel models.
Anyone can find an expensive, impractical solution, like a fuel cell.
It just takes a little extra work and skill to find an inexpensive
optimal solution.
Keep in mind that the fuel cells that run on substances other than
hydrogen make quite a bit of pollution, including CO2, CO, and
hydrocarbons. They are not a mature technology by any means. Thus, it
will be impossible to get repair parts (or a repairman) quickly. They
are complicated, finicky little beasts as well.
What is wrong with a battery bank and a wind generator for your remote cabin?
At 01:14 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
You got to be kidding, I am not going to run these units 8 to 12 hours a
day making all that noise!! These units, as a emergency generator works
fine for a hour or two.
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Quite honestly sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't have been far better to
have gone with nuclear electric cars instead of the harmful pollutant
spitting things we have.
People are scared of nuclear radiation problems but forget that gas
fumes and exhaust in cities do far more health damages every year. More
hearts attacks and deaths, more asthma, oxygen depletion in inner ciites
and many other real health problems that sap maybe 110% from our
potential everyday from everyperson in a big citiy.
People forget also that if we had nuclear cars radiation detectors would
be in any home and spills and such would be quickly detected and cleaned
up.
The oil lobby did a lot to stop the nuclear industry but the fact is a
nuclear sub gets its reactor cleaned by people immediately after the
removal of the fuel and it simply isn't that bad.
Remember every single smoke detector contains a lethal amount of
radioactive material if it is inhaled or ingested. But it is
encapsulated and people simply don't have problems except on rare
occasion.
On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:58 am, Danny Miller wrote:
In the 50's, Ford dreamed up the Ford Nucleon as a nuclear-powered
automobile:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_car
No prototype was ever built (probably for the best).
It is unclear what type of nuclear fuel and reactor were in the design,
if the design blueprints ever even got that far. Typically a reactor
would involve a steam generator system too, maybe they intended to
open-cycle it like a normal steam engine but if so they need a large
water reservoir and nothing like this is depicted. It seems like a
very strange thing to have to replace a nuclear core at only 5,000
miles. I suspect the designers may have only been out to create a
mockup for some publicity buzz and had no intention of designing a
nuclear reactor prototype. Again, probably for the best.
Danny
Tony Hwang wrote:
I was reading somewhere about a new sub that is nuclear powered, that
would NEVER need refueling.
This would be much better for an EV car than fuel cells. "Infinite"
range.
I've been working on a energy storage unit like this and have made one
the size of a shoebox. :)
- Tony
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Different
discussion list.
The system (including its fuel tank) would weigh more than the
equivalent Li-Ion battery pack. It would also cost many times more.
Certainly more complicated. It also would not last as long. (They have
earned their reputation as "Fool Cells".)
Anyway, where would you get the hydrogen?
Bill D.
At 06:14 AM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
Has anyone looked into a fuel cell as either a range extender,
emergency charger, etc. in an EV?
I imagine they would be too expensive in onesie quanitities to power
the vehicle, but a small one might be able to charge the vehicle over
time, if you weren't close to a plug. Might also provide an
opportunity for alternative fuels - hydrogen and so forth.
--Lawrence Lile
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
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After measuring my Tropica, and mulling over how to put my 12 UB121100's
(removed from my Courier before sale) into the car, it occured to me that the
only way that they would all fit in the battery tunnel which runs down the
center of the vehicle is if I placed them on end. This is a battery
orientation I've never seen before, and even though the usual notice say that
AGM's can be used in any orientation (sometimes with the caveat that inverted
is "not recommended") I'm curious if anyone has ever used AGMs standing on end
in an EV before, and has any advice (or anecdotes) to share with me?
---------------------------------
Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get
things done faster.
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Again, lets see what happens. I may or may not use it. It will not fit in
my EV anyway. I would have to build a EV from the ground up which I would
use very light aircraft magnesium steel alloys to tried something different.
First I would have to build a another building to house another car project.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dube" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: Fuel Cell
> The movie industry uses extremely quiet "studio" diesel generators
> routinely. They make about the same noise as a Lexus idling.
>
> for example:
> http://www.jobsite-generators.com/entertainment_studio_generators.html
>
> If you want something smaller, they make nifty little, very very
> quiet, generators for RVs. If you look just a bit, you can find small
> diesel models.
>
> Anyone can find an expensive, impractical solution, like a fuel cell.
> It just takes a little extra work and skill to find an inexpensive
> optimal solution.
>
> Keep in mind that the fuel cells that run on substances other than
> hydrogen make quite a bit of pollution, including CO2, CO, and
> hydrocarbons. They are not a mature technology by any means. Thus, it
> will be impossible to get repair parts (or a repairman) quickly. They
> are complicated, finicky little beasts as well.
>
> What is wrong with a battery bank and a wind generator for your remote
> cabin?
>
>
> At 01:14 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> >You got to be kidding, I am not going to run these units 8 to 12 hours a
> >day making all that noise!! These units, as a emergency generator works
> >fine for a hour or two.
>
>
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Your new battery pack must have really freed up some room in the
Sparrow...
M
On Dec 7, 2006, at 4:16 PM, Edward Ang wrote:
All,
I am heading to the AltCar Expo this Saturday early morning and coming
back the same day. Should arrive late at night. If you are
interested, I can give you a ride. We can talk about EV or non-EV
stuff.
Reply directly to me EdAng at airlabcorp dot com.
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
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Jim Husted wrote:
(First I have to get the
batteries charged, the
assembly with flywheel reduced and balanced, and the
paint job done,
though.)
Man what you been doing while I had it hehe 8^P
Kids, mostly. And a power to manual steering swap, and searching for
fuses. Oh, and...
much more it's gonna help and I'd prefer a closer
customer to test that part out LMAO!
No offense, but: ME TOO.
Jude what's your web address I know
you posted pics??
http://judebert.com/ is my website. There are pictures, although I
haven't gotten the sheared keyway up, yet. First I need to reprogram
the blog to accept pictures in the comments.
Jude
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> It look like you are comparing Li-Ion to PEM fuel cells that are not cost
> effected which uses hydrogen. I am talking about AFC which does not need
> a
> hydrogen fuel.
>
> Anyway this is what I do, experiment with all types of power systems.
> Instead of purchasing a emergency standby unit from Caterpillar which will
> cost about $40,000.00 for 33 kw with super chargers that can run at a high
> elevations, the AFC will be cheaper to run as a standby unit.
>
Will be, might be, could be.
Tell me, where can I buy a comercial quality unit right now?
If I can't buy one today, let's not waste bandwidth discussing how great a
non-existent product is.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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Does anyone have a very descriptive and easy to follow EV wiring diagram? It
would be great if it included all the major components including saftey
devices.
_________________________________________________________________
Off to school, going on a trip, or moving? Windows Live (MSN) Messenger lets
you stay in touch with friends and family wherever you go. Click here to
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Jude,
Checked out your site and read your wasted youth post.
How about wasted adulthood?.
I've had a chance to design a motor control for the
Myers Motors NMG but decided to spend my time with my
3 kids (2 daughters and a Son). I still plan on doing
a DC control, someday...tomorrow...tomorrow (remember
that commercial!). If Otmar can crank out controls for
Myers I won't waste my time, but if there is no
control for the NMG I might have to burn some midnight
oil (bad pun?). Time is short, and so far the time
devoted to the kids has been more rewarding than the
engineering career, but both are rewarding :-) Some
things are just more important than others.
Good luck on the EV and hopefully your tach limiter
wil l work well!
Rod
--- Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jim Husted wrote:
> > (First I have to get the
> >
> >> batteries charged, the
> >> assembly with flywheel reduced and balanced, and
> the
> >> paint job done,
> >> though.)
> >>
> >
> > Man what you been doing while I had it hehe 8^P
> >
> Kids, mostly. And a power to manual steering swap,
> and searching for
> fuses. Oh, and...
> > much more it's gonna help and I'd prefer a closer
> > customer to test that part out LMAO!
> >
> No offense, but: ME TOO.
> > Jude what's your web address I know
> > you posted pics??
> >
> http://judebert.com/ is my website. There are
> pictures, although I
> haven't gotten the sheared keyway up, yet. First I
> need to reprogram
> the blog to accept pictures in the comments.
>
> Jude
>
>
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Marty Escarcega <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm surprised I got no responses about what folks think
> about what I was offered or what I should look for?
> Is the Sevcon controller desireable? How about the motor?
> I have been offered that would put a 48volt system together:
> 1 controller - Sevcon - sep ex - 550 amp.
> 1 motor, Advanced DC - Sep Ex - Up to 12.8 hp.
> 1 24 volt contactor (the right one for the system)
> 1 pin wiring kit.
> 1 wire diagram
> For $600, I thought it sounded like a really good deal, but
> am looking for your input, thoughts and advice. I also need
> a charger.
I'd say grab it! The only thing to possibly be vary of is whether the
motor includes a bearing to support the drive end of the shaft, or if it
is a golf-car style motor that relies on the tranny/differential that it
mounts to to provide this bearing.
A similar power (series) motor alone would cost you $600 or more (new),
so even if the Sevcon controller turns out to not be ideal, you would
still be ablt to get the vehicle driveable on a showstring with this
package deal (which I think is your goal).
I'm not sure about the "24V contactor" you refer to being the correct
one for the system; is this the coil voltage, or what its contacts can
handle? You really want a contactor rated to handle 48VDC if you're
building a 48V system.
For a charger on a shoestring, I'd suggest looking for a used 48V
golf-car charger. With your shoestring budget your battery choice will
most likely be flooded golf-car batteries (T105/US2200, etc.).
Good luck,
Roger.
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"magnesium steel"? Isn't that what they make fire starter sticks out of?
I don't think they use magnesium steel in aircraft structures.
Perhaps I'm mistaken.
Bill D.
At 06:32 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
Again, lets see what happens. I may or may not use it. It will not fit in
my EV anyway. I would have to build a EV from the ground up which I would
use very light aircraft magnesium steel alloys to tried something different.
First I would have to build a another building to house another car project.
Roland
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Thanks Chuck. I will keep it in mind. I will have to buy a flywheel, as I'd
rather not machine the original. It has a taper to it. I'll keep it in mind.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Hays [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 1:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Marty's Mailster
>From: "Marty Escarcega" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>My commute is 3 miles flat each direction. I believe I can plug in at work.
>I estimated the top speed as there is a sticker on the visor that said
>do not exceed 35mph.
Man, sounds like you're in a perfect position to make that thing work out
for you. You'd have all-weather commuting and enough room for a couple sacks
of groceries and a flat of beer on the way home.
>Is it better to keep the clutch or do away with it?
My thought is that it's better to keep it. As I recall, those little
trannies could be a little cranky even at the best of times, but that could
just have been fleet maintenance. I used to double-clutch a lot.
I see there are various places on the Web where you can get Mailster parts,
so finding clutch plates wouldn't be a big deal hopefully.
I'd be looking at Barnett kevlar just because you'd only have to replace it
once, imho.
I've got a kevlar clutch on my Harley and it's bulletproof.
>I've heard you can do without the clutch, drop it and leave it in 2nd gear?
Might be some times being able to shift on the fly would be good. What I
hear in here is that you'll want to keep an eye on how many amps you're
drawing at different speeds.
Chuck Hays
Kamloops, BC
_________________________________________________________________
Off to school, going on a trip, or moving? Windows Live (MSN) Messenger lets
you stay in touch with friends and family wherever you go. Click here to
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