EV Digest 6201
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Ride Offer to AltCar Expo from SF Bay Area
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: New battery technology
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Fuel Cell
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Ride Offer to AltCar Expo from SF Bay Area
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: "Fool" cells (was: Fuel Cells)
by "BFRListmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Etek Motors Available
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Production EV's are all direct drive?
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Fuel Cells
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) NO NUCLEAR DISCUSSION HERE (was : Fuel Cells)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Fuel Cells
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) New England EAA Meeting, Christmas Edition
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Test Test Test
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) EVLN(Henriksen's hybrid burst into flames)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) EVLN(84mpg diesel-electric hybrid w/ 20 EV mile range)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) EVLN(Free London EV charging points)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) EVLN(IC Corp's AR charge depleting hybrid school buses)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) EVLN(Freeway flyer Electrum Spyder EV: 80mph, 300 mi range)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) EVLN(New Escondido Xebra dealer)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) EVLN(Posible AZ Tesla production plant)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: New battery technology
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) EVLN(Hybrid: sales drop, hybrids still a losing proposition)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) EVLN(nEV bonus sweetens AZ home sales)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Zilla Z1K-HV on eBay
by Jake Oshins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: "Fool" cells
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) heater relay source
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: Fuel Cells
by david woolard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
Actually, we are using all the available space to make it a
50-mile-range Sparrow. I had in fact driven 50 miles on a charge.
Quite remarkable.
On 12/7/06, MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Your new battery pack must have really freed up some room in the
Sparrow...
M
On Dec 7, 2006, at 4:16 PM, Edward Ang wrote:
> All,
>
> I am heading to the AltCar Expo this Saturday early morning and coming
> back the same day. Should arrive late at night. If you are
> interested, I can give you a ride. We can talk about EV or non-EV
> stuff.
>
> Reply directly to me EdAng at airlabcorp dot com.
>
> --
> Edward Ang
> President
> AIR Lab Corp
>
>
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The company's site is here:
http://www.hybridnrg.com/
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Hmm, looks like typical marketing hype, pretty thin on details.
453kg of batteries is about the same weight as most conversions carry in
PbA batteries and their range figures don't look much better. In fact,
since they don't list what speed they were driving at, their range might
even be less than with a comparable weight in PbA batteries.
We'll see if they ever actualy market a battery, but so far I'm not
impressed.
I just was sent this.....
http://www.electroline.com.au/elc/feature_article/item_122006b.asp
A rechargeable battery made from carbon, plastic, and traditional cheap
salts.....
Here's hoping they go ahead with large scale production
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Then quit asking me questions about this, then I will not respond.
You can email [EMAIL PROTECTED] for product info.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: Fuel Cell
> > It look like you are comparing Li-Ion to PEM fuel cells that are not
> > cost
> > effected which uses hydrogen. I am talking about AFC which does not
> > need
> > a
> > hydrogen fuel.
> >
> > Anyway this is what I do, experiment with all types of power systems.
> > Instead of purchasing a emergency standby unit from Caterpillar which
> > will
> > cost about $40,000.00 for 33 kw with super chargers that can run at a
> > high
> > elevations, the AFC will be cheaper to run as a standby unit.
> >
>
> Will be, might be, could be.
>
> Tell me, where can I buy a comercial quality unit right now?
>
> If I can't buy one today, let's not waste bandwidth discussing how great a
> non-existent product is.
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good job- I meant for the ride to LA with a passenger:) My car is
making progress now that I found someone to make the adaptor- They
did it in less than a day and thin enough to fit the Warp 9! No one
could do this except for him! I picked up a brand new Link 10 choice
rs232 with 1K amp calibration as well from canada for $300 complete.
M
On Dec 7, 2006, at 6:41 PM, Edward Ang wrote:
Mark,
Actually, we are using all the available space to make it a
50-mile-range Sparrow. I had in fact driven 50 miles on a charge.
Quite remarkable.
On 12/7/06, MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Your new battery pack must have really freed up some room in the
Sparrow...
M
On Dec 7, 2006, at 4:16 PM, Edward Ang wrote:
> All,
>
> I am heading to the AltCar Expo this Saturday early morning and
coming
> back the same day. Should arrive late at night. If you are
> interested, I can give you a ride. We can talk about EV or non-EV
> stuff.
>
> Reply directly to me EdAng at airlabcorp dot com.
>
> --
> Edward Ang
> President
> AIR Lab Corp
>
>
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dube said:
Why on earth would you want a fuel cell car? It makes no sense
whatsoever.
Investing time and money in fuel cells quite effectively diverts
the money away from other, much more practical, alternative fuels programs
like EVs and biodiesel.
Bill Dube'
Bingo! They'd rather blow money on some pie in the sky idea that they can
put off actually delivering for 5-8 years, when the real solution is right
in front of their noses. Bizzare to say the least.......
Darin
BadFishRacing
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have a very limited supply of Etek motors available.
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/579 - Release Date: 12/7/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>A big problem with clutch/transmission EV's is if you
>miss a shift, clutch when you shouldn't, you can quickly
>over rev the motor, ruining it. All production EV's I know
>of are direct drive.
Huh?
I always thought my TEVan was a production EV. It was built on Chrysler's
production line the same as all the other T-series Caravan's. And it has a
2 speed transmission, (Gear Vendors), with Hi, Lo, Reverse and Park. It
also has a clutch.
BTW: It doesn't have a tach either, but it does have micro switches on the
shift lever and on the clutch to prevent the motor from over revving.
Pretty simple really. The accelerator also has micro switches to detect
accelerator position.
Jim
'93 Dodge TEVan
'88 Fiero ESE (With the stock Tachometer)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The fact that one might be able to make it work doesn't make it a truly
viable energy source for an EV. There's an argument that fuel cells of all
types are little more than expensive curiosities - nifty engineering
challenges, but not of much practical use.
The problem is the "fuel." Hydrogen is not a naturally occuring fuel. Nor
is agricultural ammonia. Just like hydrogen, ammonia is made from natural
gas (methane). It's called the Haber process. I don't know the details, but
I'm pretty sure that a very substantial additional energy input is required.
Thus, it's tough for me to see how Haber ammonia is going to be any more
efficient as a "fuel" than hydrogen from steam methane reforming, especially
after you figure in refining and transport. And that is the real reason for
the impracticality of the PEM fuel cell.
FCVs, PEM or alkaline, are probably always going to be less efficient than
BEVs by quite a considerable margin. I have a certain respect for Bob
Aronson and his long history with EVs, but I think he's swinging at cold,
empty air on this one.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:02, GWMobile wrote:
> nuclear electric cars ...
Before a flame war gets started here :
THIS LIST IS NOT FOR DISCUSSION OF NUCLEAR ENERGY.
Not only is it controversial, not only will the parties arguing NOT listen
to one another - it is off topic.
No pros, no cons, no strengths, no dangers. Nothing. DO NOT DISCUSS THIS
TOPIC FURTHER. Let the thread drop.
Thank you.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are only two problems with fuel cells, the fuel and the cell!
The fuel cell is the way of the future, and it always will be!
Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all night ;)
On 12/7/06, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The fact that one might be able to make it work doesn't make it a truly
viable energy source for an EV. There's an argument that fuel cells of all
types are little more than expensive curiosities - nifty engineering
challenges, but not of much practical use.
The problem is the "fuel." Hydrogen is not a naturally occuring fuel. Nor
is agricultural ammonia. Just like hydrogen, ammonia is made from natural
gas (methane). It's called the Haber process. I don't know the details, but
I'm pretty sure that a very substantial additional energy input is required.
Thus, it's tough for me to see how Haber ammonia is going to be any more
efficient as a "fuel" than hydrogen from steam methane reforming, especially
after you figure in refining and transport. And that is the real reason for
the impracticality of the PEM fuel cell.
FCVs, PEM or alkaline, are probably always going to be less efficient than
BEVs by quite a considerable margin. I have a certain respect for Bob
Aronson and his long history with EVs, but I think he's swinging at cold,
empty air on this one.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ho ! Ho Ho! It's that time of year again!The usual Club meeting , second Sat of
each month moves on to our Traditional Christmas Dinner at O'Conners'
Restaurant in Worcester, MA. Relatively easy to get to. Same place we had it
LAST year. Festivities start off around 2 PM, Come and meet the newbees this
year, as we expand a bit.New faces and old ones too. We have a nice time, so
come on out. Bring yur wife, kids or Significent Other.
Saying "Seeya" and Meaning it!
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
3 days and only my replys are making it, and not EVen all of them. New posts
generated by me are not making it at all :-(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Henriksen's hybrid burst into flames)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.recordgazette.net/articles/2006/12/07/news/10news.txt
Sheriff, CHP investigate mysterious deaths
By Larry Rand Record Gazette
The California Highway Patrol and Riverside County Sheriff's
Department have explained two accidental deaths not reported
through usual channels.
A sheriff's department investigation into the death of June
Henriksen, a Sun Lakes resident, has shown that she was not a
victim of the Esperanza Fire.
Henriksen's hybrid car burst into flames late on Oct. 27 after
she had left a dirt road south of central Banning, according to
Lt. Rod Vigue of the Sheriff's department Cabazon station.
"Witnesses saw her leave the road, then the dome light came on in
her car just before they saw fire," he said.
What Henriksen was doing after 11 p.m. in the unlit, isolated
area remained a mystery. Vigue ruled out any foul play in her
death, but did not pinpoint the cause of the hybrid auto fire.
"We looked at it carefully, but we don't know exactly what
happened to cause the fire," he said. "But we do know that it was
a totally separate incident from the Esperanza Fire."
[...]
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(84mpg diesel-electric hybrid w/ 20 EV mile range)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.automotiveworld.com/AEA/content.asp?contentid=56686
UK: LTC and Zytek develop integrated battery for diesel-electric
hybrid car By Automotive World staff writer (ANK)
7 December, 2006 Source: Automotive World
A hybrid diesel-electric version of the former smart forfour has
been launched in London as a prototype. The demonstration model
uses an integrated battery developed by Lithium Technology
Corporation (LTC), in collaboration with Zytek.
GAIA Akkumulatorenwerke, an LTC subsidiary, developed the
vehicle. Its battery has an output of 288-volts and 25kW of power
and a capacity of 7.5 Ah (or about 2.2kWh of energy).
According to the company, the battery can be charged by either
the internal combustion engine and regenerative braking or by a
household mains supply.
The vehicle, which uses a hybrid powertrain based on a
turbocharged three-cylinder engine combined with two electric
motors, has claimed fuel economy of 84mpg and an all-electric
range of 20 miles. The car is part of the 'Ultra Low Carbon Car
Challenge' project supported by the UK's Energy Saving Trust.
Zytek, a supplier of automotive controls, powertrain management
and HEVs, was awarded £1.8m (US$3.5m) by the Trust to develop the
new HEV.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Free London EV charging points)
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informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/news/daily/photos/galleries/view/daily/20061206/large/8
December 6, 2006 - IMAGE 8/10
[image (plugging into a UK public EV charging head)
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/media/images/galleries/news/daily/20061206/large/20061206_22_72714441bv011_launch_of_uk_.jpg
]
LONDON - A man plugs his electric vehicle into a free charging
point on December 6, 2006 in London. Westminster council today
launched the only free on-street electric car charging points in
the UK. (Photo by Bruno Vincent/Getty Images) © Tiscali 2006
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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____________________________________________________________________________________
Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know.
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(IC Corp's AR charge depleting hybrid school buses)
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--- {EVangel}
http://www.arktimes.com/Articles/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleID=44957ac0-80e8-41d6-a490-d0241f61bc4d
Green school bus David Koon Updated: 12/7/2006
Though you might think of aerodynamic little econocars when the
term hybrid is mentioned, an Arkansas company will soon be
bringing a much bigger gas/electric vehicle to the market and
to a bus stop near you.
IC Corporation [ http://ic-corp.com ] (formerly Ward Bus Company)
in Conway has won the contract to produce the nations first
hybrid-powered school buses. One of the first off the assembly
line is scheduled to be in service with the Little Rock School
District as early as next spring.
Produced for a consortium formed by 11 school districts and
Advanced Energy, a Raleigh, N.C.-based non-profit group founded
by the areas five largest electric utilities, the initial run of
19 school buses will feature a bank of nickel-hydride batteries
mounted on the frame rail, and an 80-kilowatt electric motor
added behind the transmission. During service, the buss standard
diesel engine will run at a constant, low RPM to operate
accessories such as power steering and brakes. Once the batteries
are drained to 20 percent, the diesel engine will cycle up to a
higher speed to keep the batteries at that level. A regenerative
braking system, which produces electricity every time the bus is
slowed or stopped, will also help keep the batteries charged.
Employing what is called a charge depleting hybrid system, the
bus will have to be plugged in while it is off duty to bring the
batteries up to 100 percent charge.
Engineers with IC Corp. say the system will double the miles per
gallon of the average school bus for at least the first 44 miles,
with a 30 to 50 percent improvement in fuel efficiency after
that.
Advanced Energy issued a call for hybrid bus proposals from
school bus manufacturers in June. On July 25, the company
announced that IC Corporation, the countrys largest manufacturer
of school buses, had won the contract. The buses will be built in
cooperation with Enova Systems, a manufacturer of gas/electric
hybrid power trains and components, based in Torrance, Calif.
Randall Ray is manager of bus platform marketing for IC
Corporation. He said the plug-in hybrid system that will be used
in the buses is the next big thing. Plug-in hybrid is the
gateway, Ray said. Its going to get us to the future.
Because of the use of regenerative braking, Ray said the plug-in
hybrid system is ideal for commercial truck applications where
drivers have to make many stops and starts: buses, delivery
trucks, garbage haulers and vans. The system also has military
applications, Ray said, because of quieter operation and better
fuel economy.
Thats much less logistics [the military] has to deal with, Ray
said. Thats one fewer barrel of fuel they have to bring into a
forward location.
For now, Ray said, the biggest hurdle to making hybrid buses more
widespread is the cost. The hybrid package electric motor,
batteries, a control box, and an additional radiator for the
liquid-cooled system will almost double the price of a standard
school bus, to about $215,000. Ray said the key to bringing down
the cost is mass production.
The goal, he said, is to get the technology cheap enough that the
money school districts save on fuel will balance out with the
additional cost of the hybrid system within three to five years
of purchasing the bus.
Currently, one prototype is touring industry trade shows
throughout the country, and another is undergoing cold-weather,
real world testing in New York state. Ray said the production of
the initial run of 19 buses should begin in Conway in January,
with Little Rocks bus scheduled for delivery in late March or
early April. Other hybrid buses will go to districts in North
Carolina, South Carolina, New York, Florida, California,
Washington, Iowa and Texas. The result could be a greener trip to
school for the kids of the future, and fewer clouds of diesel
smoke to inhale during your morning commute.
The plug-in thing is happening, Ray said. Weve got to make it
happen and get it cost effective so the industry can embrace it.
Not just school buses but the entire medium and heavy industry.
© Copyright 2004-06. Arkansas Times. All Rights Reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Want to start your own business?
Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Freeway flyer Electrum Spyder EV: 80mph, 300 mi range)
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informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/354/C10771/
Monday December 4, 2006 3:46 PM EST - By: Michael Kwan
While everyone else may be filing into the shopping malls this
weekend to get started on the holiday gift-giving season, there
will be a fairly enthusiastic and dedicated crowd gathering at
the Alternative Car Expo in Barker Hanger at the Santa Monica Air
Center for a completely different reason. It is there that
Universal Electric Vehicle
[ http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com ] will be showcasing
their Electrum Spyder. This full-electric car gets juiced up
from a wall plug overnight, meaning that you can start "with a
full tank every day without going to a gas station."
There's no need for a special generator or a propriety jack,
because the Universal Electric Vehicle (as its name implies) can
plug into any standard 110 or 220 volt outlet. This all-electric
"freeway flyer", as you'd expect, gives off zero emissions. If
you live somewhere where electricity is generated in an
environmentally-friendly way, then this really is a true "green"
transportation solution.
In their own words, "The Electrum Spyder provides an effective
range of up to 150 miles at a top speed governed at 80 miles an
hour on a full charge using nickel zinc batteries. The Spyder is
available with optional lithium ion batteries with a range of up
to 300 miles on a single charge."
If you happen to be down Santa Monica way, head on out on
Saturday to check out the Electrum Spyder in action.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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____________________________________________________________________________________
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(New Escondido Xebra dealer)
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informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.sdbj.com/article.asp?aID=107706
Electric Car Dealer to Open Doors Andy Killion
For those wondering what happened to the electric car,
Electra-City Motors [ http://www.electracitymotors.com ] a new
electric car dealership announced its grand opening will be
held Dec. 2 at 738 W. Washington Ave. in Escondido.
Cars at the new dealership are manufactured by Santa Rosa-based
Zap and can travel up to 40 miles per hour with a range of up to
40 miles between charges.
The dealership said that its goal is to provide San Diego with an
emission-free, 100 percent electric vehicle that allows consumers
to feel good about not generating pollution.
Festivities for the grand opening begin at 10 a.m. and continue
until 3 p.m. and include complimentary food and drinks.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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EVLN(Posible AZ Tesla production plant)
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informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2006/12/04/story13.html?from_rss=1
Arizona in the mix for a new electric car factory
The Business Journal of Phoenix - December 1, 2006
by Timothy Roberts and Mike SunnucksThe Business Journal
[image http://cll.bizjournals.com/story_image/64377-400-0.jpg ]
Chris A. Johnson/Special to The Business Journal
California-based Tesla Motors, with its electric roadster at the
2006 Pebble Beach Concours dElegance, may build its new
production plant out of state. Company CEO Martin Eberhard,
pictured, claims offers from other states are far more enticing.
Arizona is in the running for a new high-tech automotive factory
being built by a California company.
Tesla Motors Inc. wants to build a new $100 million, 300-employee
high-tech factory and the company is looking at Arizona, North
Carolina and its home state of California for the production
facility.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Hmm, ok.
So their Energy Density is the same as PbA and their Power Density is less
than a good AGM.
If they can produce them for less than PbA or can prove a significantly
longer life (with comparable price), they might see a limited utility
until LiIon gets cheaper. At least amoung hobbiest.
I don't see any major makers building PHEV with 1,000 lb battery packs
though.
> The company's site is here:
>
> http://www.hybridnrg.com/
>
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> Hmm, looks like typical marketing hype, pretty thin on details.
>>
>> 453kg of batteries is about the same weight as most conversions carry in
>> PbA batteries and their range figures don't look much better. In fact,
>> since they don't list what speed they were driving at, their range might
>> even be less than with a comparable weight in PbA batteries.
>>
>> We'll see if they ever actualy market a battery, but so far I'm not
>> impressed.
>>
>>
>>> I just was sent this.....
>>> http://www.electroline.com.au/elc/feature_article/item_122006b.asp
>>> A rechargeable battery made from carbon, plastic, and traditional cheap
>>> salts.....
>>>
>>> Here's hoping they go ahead with large scale production
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>
>
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EVLN(Hybrid: sales drop, hybrids still a losing proposition)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/markets/headline_news/article.jsp?content=b120797A
Hybrid cars still generating losses, Nissan executive says: 'We'll
see'
Ken Thomas December 7, 2006 - 11:34 p.m.
WASHINGTON (AP) - A top Nissan Motor Co. executive in North
America said Thursday that the hybrid vehicle market remains
unprofitable despite public interest in alternative vehicles.
"Hybrids today are not a very viable economic proposition. It's
still a loss-making proposition and we'll see," said Dominique
Thormann, Nissan North America's senior vice-president for
administration and finance.
Nissan recently showcased its first hybrid-powered vehicle, an
Altima sedan, at the Los Angeles Auto Show. The hybrid, powered
by a 2.5-liter four-cylinder gasoline engine and an electric
motor, goes into production Monday and will be sold in California
and several Northeast states beginning in January.
===
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/business/159141.php
Hybrid-vehicle sales drop as gas prices dip, tax credits end
By Kathleen Pender San Francisco Chronicle
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 12.06.2006
Sales of gas-electric hybrid vehicles have fallen sharply since
August, a result of declining gasoline prices and shrinking
federal tax credits for some brands.
Despite the sales drop, prices for the two best-selling hybrids
the Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid have barely budged. But
that could change if inventories continue to climb.
Carmakers sold 26,249 hybrids in August, the same month the
average price of gasoline nationwide hit $3 per gallon.
Since then, gasoline prices have fallen 24 percent, to $2.28 per
gallon, and hybrids sales have dropped 31 percent to 18,117 in
November, according to Edmunds.com.
By contrast, total U.S. passenger-vehicle sales fell 19.5 percent
during the same period.
Hybrids accounted for only 1.52 percent of all vehicles sold in
November. That's down from 1.77 percent in August, but up from
1.38 percent in November 2005, according to Edmunds.
The sharpest drop came between September and October, when the
tax credit on Toyota and Lexus models fell by half. These two
brands, both made by Toyota, account for more than three-fourths
of all hybrid sales.
In a speech at an industry conference last week, Jim Press,
president of Toyota North America, urged Congress to extend the
federal tax credit for hybrid vehicles to encourage consumers to
buy more fuel-efficient cars.
In years past, buyers got a tax deduction when they bought
certain hybrid models. But starting this year, they could get a
more valuable tax credit. Taxpayers subject to the alternative
minimum tax can't take the hybrid credit.
The credit starts to phase out in the second calendar quarter
after each manufacturer's hybrid-vehicle sales (measured from
Jan. 1 of this year) reaches 60,000.
Toyota passed that milestone in the second quarter. As a result,
anyone who buys a Toyota or Lexus hybrid in the fourth quarter of
this year or the first quarter of 2007 will get only half the
original credit. In the following two quarters, the credit falls
to 25 percent of the original amount. After that, no credit is
allowed.
The largest hybrid credit $3,150 for the top-selling Toyota
Prius shrank to $1,575 on Oct 1. That's still bigger than the
full credit on some hybrid models.
Toyota cleared out its pipeline to get interested buyers a Prius
before the September deadline, Toyota spokeswoman Martha Voss
says. That might have stolen some sales from later months.
Honda, the next-biggest maker of hybrids, is not likely to reach
the 60,000 milestone until the third or fourth quarter of next
year, says Alex Rosten an industry analyst with Edmunds.com.
Before the November election, "There was talk of some people on
the House and Senate side wanting to introduce bills" to extend
the hybrid tax credit, Voss says.
That effort could get a boost when Rep. John Dingell, a Democrat
from Michigan, takes over as chairman of the House Energy and
Commerce Committee. But it's not likely to happen soon.
Days to turn, which tells you how long on average cars sold in a
given month sat on the lot, jumped to 11 in November from six in
August for the Prius, according to Power Informational Network.
That's still very low by industry standards.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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EVLN(nEV bonus sweetens AZ home sales)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.azcentral.com/community/swvalley/articles/1202swv-homes1202Z5.html
Electric cars spice home sales
Monica Alonzo-Dunsmoor The Arizona Republic Dec. 2, 2006
A lull in home sales is prompting builders to get creative with
incentives for would-be home buyers.
Some are offering thousands of dollars worth of design perks,
free swimming pools or cash.
And although it's usually the individual home builders baiting
the lines, one developer is stepping in to further sweeten the
deal.
DMB Associates, the mastermind behind the 8,800-acre Verrado
community in Buckeye, is offering a free neighborhood
electrical vehicle to new-home buyers through Dec. 15
[ http://verrado.com/aboutus/latestnews.php ].
The electric vehicle is worth about $9,000 and comes with a
one-year, bumper-to-bumper warranty.
Ryan Peterson, DMB's marketing manager, said the incentive was
designed as a way to complement Verrado living.
"It's an extra bonus for people who purchase a home," he said.
"It's just a wonderful opportunity that we can provide something
like that, and it's very useful for someone living here. It
matches well with the style of living here. People can use it to
get to the grocery store, to school or to the golf course. And a
lot of our home buyer research shows us that we have
environmentally sensitive groups.
"We wanted to chose something that traditionally the home
builders aren't offering."
Tim and Tam Cleary, a 50-something couple who have lived in
Verrado for two years, were thinking about buying a smaller home
in the same community.
When they saw the promotion, they decided the time was right.
"It's an added bonus," Tim Cleary said. "It was good timing, so
we decided we would purchase it within the window that (an
electric vehicle) was being offered."
He said the offer was a great one because just about everything
that residents need is in the community.
Cleary and others who take advantage of the deal may also see
some savings by using the electric car around town instead of
shelling out money for gas.
"We thought that was a really great deal," he said. "It's just an
awesome way to get around town."
Copyright © 2006, azcentral.com. All rights reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
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I just listed a new Zilla Z1K-HV on eBay (item 280058527130). I was
about to cancel my order for it when it actually got delivered. I
ordered it to replace the motor controller on my Corbin Sparrow, but in
the six months since I ordered it, I got the Sparrow working pretty
well. Since I don't plan to install it any time soon, I'm listing it
for sale. I'm hoping to get what I paid for it, and since Otmar is
ramping up production, I don't expect that it will go beyond list price.
The package includes one Z1K-HV. That's the high-voltage, 1000A
controller. Because I have a Sparrow, I ordered it with the
Sparrow/Kilovac contactor option. This option could be used in any
vehicle, with the right contactors. It also has the Hall Effect Pedal
Assembly option and one Hall Effect Pedal included.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2800585271
30
This is my first sale on eBay, so I have no history. If you're worried
that I might be some scammer who is trying to profit from Otmar's
backlog, I have two suggestions. You could contact Steven Lough, Rich
Rudman or other members of the Seattle Electric Vehicle Association who
I've interacted with. Alternatively, take heart in the fact that if I
were a scammer, I'd try to target a larger audience than you-all.
Thanks for listening,
Jake Oshins
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I don't discount the usefulness of the fuel cell principle at all. The
source of energy is still in question, but many can also question the
source of power for an EV since it's often from a fossil fuel plant. I
see no grounds for a "batteries good, fuel cells bad" conclusion.
However, current technology has little to offer. It is incredibly
expensive, generally impractical in terms of power output, energy
storage, ease of use, and reliability, and generally unavailable.
Nobody here is a fuel cell engineer who can help bring us new
technology. So it's kind of pointless to discuss. Wait a few years,
maybe it'll pan out and we'll have something worth talking about.
Danny
BFRListmail wrote:
Bill Dube said:
Why on earth would you want a fuel cell car? It makes no
sense whatsoever.
Investing time and money in fuel cells quite effectively
diverts the money away from other, much more practical, alternative
fuels programs like EVs and biodiesel.
Bill Dube'
Bingo! They'd rather blow money on some pie in the sky idea that they
can put off actually delivering for 5-8 years, when the real solution
is right in front of their noses. Bizzare to say the least.......
Darin
BadFishRacing
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I looked to get the heater relay from one of the EV parts suppliers but
none had them listed.
I found two options for a relay. One was the TYCO Potter Brumfield from
either Mouser or NewarkinOne
The NewarkinOne was $13.04 for one and Mouser is $18.84
http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/newark/en_US/endecaSearch/searchPage2.jsp;jsessionid=2UWXXFU1MCWLOCXDUY2SFGQK2OTCIIV1?Ntt=KUEP-3D15-12&searchtype=mfg&Nty=1&N=0&Ntk=gensearch
http://www.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ntt=KUEP-3D15-12
The other manufacturer, Magnecraft, doesn't sell with the option for quick
connects.
Another way to do this is the way BobBatson does it, with a full size
Albright contactor.
I have a blown relay that the previous owner had put an AC rated relay in.
I see the black char through the casing. ITS! COLD!
Ben
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One aspect of fuell cells that hasn't been mentioned
so far is that they are incredibly heavy. The plates
which are the main physical component of fuel cell are
made of lead. When these are stacked together you
basically have a solid block of lead with a few clever
bits of membrane tucked away inside. PbA batteries are
nothing compared to these boys.
Dave
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