--- Begin Message ---
The latest addition in the EV Album is a 1997 Saturn from Tim C of
Trenton Ohio.
He states that he just ordered a 1200A Raptor from KTA Services.
Are the Raptors being manufactured again ?
Can anyone shed any light on this ?
Thanks;
Dennis
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C71EEF.41ECC4C7"
Subject: 1200A Raptor
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 13:45:35 -0600
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Thread-Topic: 1200A Raptor
Thread-Index: Acce70FQlPShhVbFS8mNGCNiA/wTQA==
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion Group--
Subject: Re: ceramic heater short
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:30:05 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
James, thanks for the advice, but the actual problem is that the negative
156 volt feed to the ceramic heater is 100% arriving at the positive
switching relay feed to the ceramic heater, thus creating a short if I
turned it on.
Unless I am mistaken, there should be no way of powering a lightbulb across
the two legs of a switching relay
A household example of what is happening:
take you light switch out of the wall at home.
detach the hot side and apply to one side of a lightbulb
detach the side that goes to the ceiling fixture and apply to the other
side of the test lightbulb.
This lightbulb should not light unless the wire feeding the ceiling fixture
is wirenutted in the ceiling fixture to the ground/neutral wire.
This is what I see happening in my car.
1) SO the question returns to, should this happen with a ceramic heater
2) where do I find the heater element of the S10 conversion (in the cabin
or under the hood).
3) would this have happened if the person I purchased from put in an AC
ceramic element?
4) perhaps I need an instruction on how ceramic elements work. Sure I know
it's a fancy resistor
FYI My space heater at home reads a resistance between 50-100 Ohms., so
that one isn't an open circuit, but that isn't much resistance either.
Thanks, Ben
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 13:55:28 -0800 (PST)
From: David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ceramic heater short
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Ceramic heaters go where the ICE heater core was. Follow the service manual or
Haynes manual to get to the heater core.
The tabs on the end are prone to breakage. One may have come off and contacted
one of the others, causing a short.
A ceramic heater has aluminum fins and electrical tabs, and is glued to a like
element with a piece of the ceramic material in between. There are usually 5
elements, and three get positive and two negative. This way you can have
several levels of heat that you can apply by applying voltage to different
combinations of sections.
The resistance will be low initially, but remember you are going across several
elements. Also, the resistance increases with temperature. The maximum
temperature it can reach at 120V is about 180 degrees F, at which point it self
limits to a large degree.
Ceramic heaters don't care if AC or DC is applied.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:30:05 PM
Subject: Re: ceramic heater short
James, thanks for the advice, but the actual problem is that the negative
156 volt feed to the ceramic heater is 100% arriving at the positive
switching relay feed to the ceramic heater, thus creating a short if I
turned it on.
Unless I am mistaken, there should be no way of powering a lightbulb across
the two legs of a switching relay
A household example of what is happening:
take you light switch out of the wall at home.
detach the hot side and apply to one side of a lightbulb
detach the side that goes to the ceiling fixture and apply to the other
side of the test lightbulb.
This lightbulb should not light unless the wire feeding the ceiling fixture
is wirenutted in the ceiling fixture to the ground/neutral wire.
This is what I see happening in my car.
1) SO the question returns to, should this happen with a ceramic heater
2) where do I find the heater element of the S10 conversion (in the cabin
or under the hood).
3) would this have happened if the person I purchased from put in an AC
ceramic element?
4) perhaps I need an instruction on how ceramic elements work. Sure I know
it's a fancy resistor
FYI My space heater at home reads a resistance between 50-100 Ohms., so
that one isn't an open circuit, but that isn't much resistance either.
Thanks, Ben
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Details on Why Nimh Cannot be Paralleled
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 13:33:57 -0800
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Actually, we have data showing it is not even safe to leave them
> connected in parallel for a few hours. One or more would always try
> to recharge the others.
I suspect that is due to the peak detection algorithms which stop charging
NiMH batteries when a certain negative DV/dt is detected.
As long as neither battery goes into the negative dv/dt territory (i.e.
neither has reached the peak), such positive feedback heating shouldn't take
place and the batteries should not self-discharge. So avoid the peak, avoid
the problem.
Nevertheless, if it's bad to parallel cells due to the desire to peak
charge, then it's bad to parallel plates within a NiMH battery, which is
exactly what is done.
Every cell is made up internally of multiple paralleled plates.
When a subcell (i.e. a plate pair) reaches its peak, adjacent cells will
subsequently discharge into it and further charging will do nothing but heat
the cell further. But why don't these self-discharge and overheat during
the post-peak detection phase? Fortunately, the chemistry and age being
identical within a cell, the time difference to reach peak for adjacent
cells is fairly constrained.
Consequently, little differential stored energy is available to dump to the
adjacent cells.
I suspect that subcells do overheat to an extent---it's just a magnitude
difference less than charging paralleled cells. And the more you allow a
battery (or batteries in parallel) to go into the negative dv/dt realm, the
greater the risk that one or more cells (or plates within a cell) haven't
themselves reached the peak yet and more power will continue to be pumped
in. Once the adjacent cells and subcells reach peak, they collectively
reflect the negative dv/dt to the charger, and charging will end. After
charging, there will certainly be some discharging between cells and
subcells, but it shouldn't be significant UNLESS a significant number of
cells or subcells failed to reach peak, but a minority of cells or subcells
DID reach peak. In that scenario, the less charged batteries will discharge
LOTS of energy into the fully peak-charged battery causing it to overheat.
So it seems to me that the key for any success in paralleling NiMH cells is
to ensure that on charging, either:
1) Ensure ALL cells get charged to BELOW the peak and thermally sense them
to be sure that none have reached the peak.
2) Ensure ALL cells get fully past the peak.
However, the killer in this is that the NiMH batteries can have different
peaks.
And for that reason AND the fact that these batteries do exhibit the
negative dv/dt post-peak charging behavior, it seems that the only real safe
way to parallel them is (1) above.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Load testing methods
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:40:17 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Design is simple it's a mosfet used as a resistor.
I made similar 100V600W variable charge and can go further but heatsink is
going to be huge !
I record Volt/amp with fluke 123
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: Load testing methods
> When I first saw that unit I wondered if it could be hacked to report
> 10 or 100 times what it's spec'd for? Adding more load is not that
> hard. Just getting it to cooperate might be.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > You will go nowhere with it's 150w max limit !
> > 3A under 48V...
> >
> > ---------- Initial Header -----------
> >
> > >From : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To : <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Cc :
> > Date : Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:46:03 -0800
> > Subject : RE: Load testing methods
> >
> > An interesting option for load testing is the CBA (computerized battery
> > analyzer) offered at www.westmountainradio.com . Operating at up to
> 48v,
> > it'll discharge a battery or bank to prescribed voltage discharge
> limits at
> > constant load and store the data to your USB-attached
> computer...might be a
> > spendy option...
> > Here's the CBA link: http://www.westmountainradio.com/CBA.htm
> > -MT
> >
> > > - How to make a battery tester, this is from Joe Smalley
> > >
> > > 1) Take a coat hanger with .093 wire, it will draw about 150 amps
> > > from a 12 volt battery, 100 amps from an 8 volt battery or 75
> > > amps from a 6 volt battery.
> > >
> > > 2) Parallel two or more to get more current.
> > >
> > > 3) Connect the coat hanger to some 6 gage or larger jumper cables
> > > and submerge the wire in water. Don't use a plastic bucket. The
> > > hot wire can make it leak.
> > >
> > > 4) Connect your voltmeter to the battery terminals of the battery
> > > under test.
> > >
> > > 5) Connect the jumper cables to the battery terminals.
> > >
> > > 6) Wait for a fixed amount of time (your choice on how far you
> > > want to discharge the batteries) and read the final voltage.
> > >
> > > Disconnect the jumper cables from the battery and record the
> > > voltage. The bad ones show up pretty quickly using this test.
> > >
> > > Rush
> > > Tucson AZ
> > > www.ironandwood.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------- ALICE SECURITE ENFANTS ---------------------
> > Protégez vos enfants des dangers d'Internet en installant Sécurité
> Enfants, le contrôle parental d'Alice.
> > http://www.aliceadsl.fr/securitepc/default_copa.asp
> >
>
>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:52:55 -0800
From: Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Load testing methods
To: [email protected]
Message-id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Another method, similar to what Philippe does, is to get a Radio Shack RS232
meter. You can either use a shunt or a clip on ammeter unit. Combine this
with the good ol' "coat hanger in a bucket of water" and not only do you
have a logging load tester, but you can use this meter for a wide variety of
other measurements and recordings. Costs about $100 for the whole setup.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
---------------------------------------------------
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong
man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit
belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short
again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming,
but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself
for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high
achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while
daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid
souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Philippe Borges
Sent: December 13, 2006 11:40 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Load testing methods
Design is simple it's a mosfet used as a resistor.
I made similar 100V600W variable charge and can go further but heatsink is
going to be huge !
I record Volt/amp with fluke 123
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: Load testing methods
> When I first saw that unit I wondered if it could be hacked to report
> 10 or 100 times what it's spec'd for? Adding more load is not that
> hard. Just getting it to cooperate might be.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > You will go nowhere with it's 150w max limit !
> > 3A under 48V...
> >
> > ---------- Initial Header -----------
> >
> > >From : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To : <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Cc :
> > Date : Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:46:03 -0800
> > Subject : RE: Load testing methods
> >
> > An interesting option for load testing is the CBA (computerized battery
> > analyzer) offered at www.westmountainradio.com . Operating at up to
> 48v,
> > it'll discharge a battery or bank to prescribed voltage discharge
> limits at
> > constant load and store the data to your USB-attached
> computer...might be a
> > spendy option...
> > Here's the CBA link: http://www.westmountainradio.com/CBA.htm
> > -MT
> >
> > > - How to make a battery tester, this is from Joe Smalley
> > >
> > > 1) Take a coat hanger with .093 wire, it will draw about 150 amps
> > > from a 12 volt battery, 100 amps from an 8 volt battery or 75
> > > amps from a 6 volt battery.
> > >
> > > 2) Parallel two or more to get more current.
> > >
> > > 3) Connect the coat hanger to some 6 gage or larger jumper cables
> > > and submerge the wire in water. Don't use a plastic bucket. The
> > > hot wire can make it leak.
> > >
> > > 4) Connect your voltmeter to the battery terminals of the battery
> > > under test.
> > >
> > > 5) Connect the jumper cables to the battery terminals.
> > >
> > > 6) Wait for a fixed amount of time (your choice on how far you
> > > want to discharge the batteries) and read the final voltage.
> > >
> > > Disconnect the jumper cables from the battery and record the
> > > voltage. The bad ones show up pretty quickly using this test.
> > >
> > > Rush
> > > Tucson AZ
> > > www.ironandwood.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------- ALICE SECURITE ENFANTS ---------------------
> > Protégez vos enfants des dangers d'Internet en installant Sécurité
> Enfants, le contrôle parental d'Alice.
> > http://www.aliceadsl.fr/securitepc/default_copa.asp
> >
>
>
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Increasing Pack Voltage - GE motor - more motor data
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:17:46 +0000
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Rod,
Thanks for the info. I have printed it and placed it in my files for future
reference. I will proceed with adding the two new batteries.
--
In Friendship, Ted
//ted.sanders.home.comcast.net
//ffni.home.comcast.net
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Additional info for the 5BT1346BT50
> 20.9HP, 4700RPM, 90V, 184Amps - this is the 1 hour
> rating up to 140 degrees C.
> other
> Mounting: C-flange
> Weight: 170 lbs
> dimensions: 17.75"x9"dia
> Indicators: one NO thermostat (usually 2 white 16GA
> wires coming out of the motor housing)
> Enclosure: blower ventilated
> Rotation: clockwise (shaft end I'm assuming?)
> Insulation: H (total temp 180C)
> Max motor speed: 6500RPM
> Reference outline: 36B550574AH (SK93C50130)
>
> --- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I'm don't know what the difference is, but the
> > GE 5BT1346B50 is the 9" motor that GE donated to
> > high
> > schools and colleges back in the early 90's.
> > It has the following nameplate data similar to
> > yours,
> > HP 20.9
> > Volt 90
> > other info;
> > Brush grade T300
> > Arm R = 0.0046 ohms
> > Field R = 0.0039 ohms
> > Many of the teams GE donated these too ran on the
> > range of voltages 96 - 144Vdc.
> > You should have no problem with 120Vdc.
> > Rod
> > ex GE-EVS employee
> >
> > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > What a great site for a newbie to get educated.
> > > Thanks to all of you for being willing to share
> > your
> > > knowledge.
> > >
> > > I have a question about how much voltage a
> > > particular motor can handle. I cannot see any ID
> > > tag on the motor. However, I can only see a very
> > > small part of the case. I purchased 1981 ford
> > > escort which was converted to electric as an
> > > experimental project.
> > > When I purchased the car it was operating on 108
> > > volts. I have replaced the batteries with US 2000
> > > batteries. I would like to add two additional
> > > batteries to get 120 volts. When I purchased the
> > > car I was told that the motor was a 9 inch General
> > > Electric. In the paper work I received I found a
> > > note with the following information:
> > >
> > > General Electric DC motor
> > > Model # 5BT1346B38
> > > HP 20.9
> > > WDG Series
> > > V 90
> > > A 184
> > > No FS8-420-FS
> > > RPM 4707
> > > Encl BV
> > > Duty 1hr 140 superscript c CL.H
> > >
> > > I tried GEs web site but could not find any
> > > information of this model #
> > >
> > > Does anyone recognize this motor? Will it damage
> > > this motor to subject it to 120 volts?
> > > Does anyone know a web site that might give me
> > more
> > > information on this motor?
> > >
> > > The controller is a Curtis 1221C
> > >
> > > What are the risks of increasing the battery pack
> > to
> > > 20 six-volt batteries?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your help!!
> > > --
> > > In Friendship, Ted
> > > //ted.sanders.home.comcast.net
> > > //ffni.home.comcast.net
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:48:53 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Belktronix?
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Well for one thing, this means that some of the batteries will get a
slightly deeper discharge on EVERY cycle. Those ones will likely wear out
sooner than the others.
But its worse than that. After a while these batteries (that get deeper
DoD) will have less capacity, and STILL be subject to a even deeper
relative discharge. I.e. the batteries with the lower capacity will be
getting a deeper discharge, which will lead to progressively quicker
death.
> But the question was what other reason than equalization?
> I understand the reason of equalization, but Shari said REGARDLESS of
> equalization not to do it.
> The draw of a controllers control electronics is quite small, it would
> be within the noise of battery unequalness.
>
> I know nothing about Belktronix or its controller, but having built my
> own I see an advantage to having a 24v input. If you include a DC-DC in
> the controller it will have to be designed for some voltage range.
> You can always add your own DC-DC if you don't want to tap mid-pack, but
> you can't remove one yourself if its embedded in the controller, for
> example min 96v or max 120v. My controller has a 48v->15v DC-DC.
>
> Jack
>
> Roderick Wilde wrote:
>> Jack, The first answer is that most people do not do an equalize charge
>> daily. There are some chargers on the market that do not even have this
>> ability. Once batteries start to get out of balance they get
>> progressively out of balance and some get overcharged while others are
>> not brought all the way up to a full charge. On liquid lead acid
>> batteries this is not as critical but it can still do damage by
>> overstressing the batteries you are boiling away while the others are
>> trying to catch up.
>> An exception to the rule. I received a call yesterday from a guy
>> wanting a 36 volt DC to DC converter. I asked him what voltage he was
>> running .He said 72. I told him that this is not a good thing to run off
>> half the pack. His reply was that they use two 36 volt chargers and
>> charge the packs separately. In this particular case it is fine to run
>> the DC to DC off half the pack.
>>
>> Roderick Wilde
>> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
>> www.suckamps.com
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Murray"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 9:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: Belktronix?
>>
>>
>>> why? what reason is there other than equalization?
>>>
>>> Jack
>>> Electro Automotive wrote:
>>>
>>>> At 10:44 AM 12/12/2006, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You mean to say you don't have a way to equalize your batteries?
>>>>> Hmm, someone who doesn't is taking THE BIGGEST SHORTCUT themselves.
>>>>> Jack
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil Marino wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew,
>>>>>> Looking through the website, I noticed that the controller needs a
>>>>>> 24 tap from the traction pack. That means that two of the 12V
>>>>>> batteries ( or 4 batteries, if they're 6 volters) will have more
>>>>>> load on them than the rest. Even if it's a light load, to me,
>>>>>> that's just not the best way to do it. And it means you have to
>>>>>> have another high voltage line coming from the traction pack.
>>>>>> You won't find a need for a mid-pack tap on a Zilla, or even a
>>>>>> Curtis.
>>>>>> This may or may not be a real indicator of how well everything is
>>>>>> designed, but it makes me wonder if other shortcuts were taken.
>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Phil. REGARDLESS of battery equalization, don't tap part
>>>> of your pack for another use.
>>>>
>>>> Shari Prange
>>>> Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone
>>>> 831-429-1989
>>>> http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since
>>>> 1979
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.16/582 - Release Date:
>>> 12/11/2006
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
From: "Alan Gideon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Firefly Batteries for Sale?
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:43:10 -0500
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Last time I heard, the Congo's problem wasn't that they didn't like the
color of money, it was that you had to be semi-crazy to go there. I've
kinda sworn off places with active revolutions. The CIA's site describes it
as having "unrest".
Apollo's web site uses the term "product catalog", but lists only minimal
technical specs and no prices. Not something I can design to.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Seth Myers
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 1:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Firefly Batteries for Sale?
[snip]
I kind of wonder, similarly, about the Apollo guys who claim a $75/kWhr
lead cobalt batteries
(http://www.apolloenergysystems.com/) though I see Cobalt is supposed to
have risen in price a great deal lately (up 2.5x in 2003/2004 by someone's
statistic) and be found primarily in the Republic of Congo, probably not a
real bastion of free trade and democracy, I guess ... (I may be entirely
wrong), which is why some Li battery makers seem to be interested in using
Manganese rather than Cobalt in their Li Ion batteries - manganese
supposedly sourced from all over the world). Otherwise, I think Lb Cobalt
issupposed to be similarly pretty lightweight compared to lead acid, but the
$/kWhr doesn't seem too different from 6 volt golf cart 230 Ahr flooded
battery.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Battery posts
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:33:19 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Hi everyone
I was planning on using optima's 55 smp/h battery for my conversion when i
found out that optima sells a 75 amp/h battery. This battery only comes with
the top battery post or only the top battery stud. which one is better for
an EV which uses high amps.
_________________________________________________________________
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 88 Jetta power steering stuff??
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 23:00:33 +0000
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi Bob,
Try jacking the front wheels off the floor, turn the wheels lock-to-lock a few
times to bleed out the air (with the pump running), check the fluid and then
turn the wheels up against stops gently and see if you hear the pump labor and
the motor load down. If it doesn't work, reverse the rotation of the pump and
run through it one more time.
It doesn't take a lot of turning to tell if the assist if its working. I have a
pump direct coupled to a 3/4 hp DC motor running off a little speed controller
and I can dial thing way down and still get assist.
Hope this helps,
Dana
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Hi EVerybody;;
>
> Anybody fool around with power steering stuff? I'm trying to get my 88
> Jetta's to work. running the PS pump off the motor. Running the motor in
> neutral, on 12 volts it SHOULD be running up enough to make the damn P.S.
> work? Right? I think I have it running the correct direction, I tried both,
> thinking I have it bracketed bass ackwards, no difference.Bought a new
> resovoir that doesn't leak, the issue the other night.I don't think you
> would hafta bleed it or something?It has the two hoses, intake and output. I
> don't think it is Rocket Science, must be SOMETHING I'm doing wrong?
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:41:47 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: 2-Speed Transmission Using a Differential?
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
THink about this a bit. In order to get 1/2 speed on the output, the
small motor has to hold has to hold it's shaft stalled with the same
torque that the big motor is inputing. In other words the "small" motor
has to be as powerfull as the "big" motor and has to be able to hold a
stalled position.
To get some other speed the "small" motor has to spin at some other speed
with the same torque as the "big" motor.
Ideally you need two motors/controllers where you can precisely controll
the RPMs and Torque independently, I.e. you have to be able to
independently control RPM vs torque on each motor as well as independently
controlling these variables between one motor and the other.
> (View with fixed-width font)
>
> What if I connect a small permanent magnet motor with a gear reduction
> on one side of a differential and a large traction motor on the other
> side of the differential like the ASCII diagram below? I would have a
> 3 speed transmission.
>
> 1st gear
> Connect the PM motor to the pack with a diode to allow the PM motor to
> recharge the pack when its voltage is higher than the pack. When this
> happens, the PM motor would apply a torque thru the reduction grear to
> its side of the differential. Essentially, you will have a torque
> converter that pretty much locks up when the RPM is higher than some
> value. And, the drive ratio is > 1:1.
>
> 2nd gear
> Lock the disk brake. The drive ratio would be 1:1.
>
> Of course, this assumes that the differential would not fail first due
> to the improper application.
>
> Would this work?
>
> Drive| Gear
> Shalf| Reduction
> |
> | -- | ----
> _+_ | |--+-| |
> / \___| | | ----
> \ / -- PM Motor
> -+- ^
> | Disk
> ----- Brake
> | |
> | |
> | |Traction
> | | Motor
> | |
> -----
>
> --
> Edward Ang
> President
> AIR Lab Corp
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 88 Jetta power steering stuff??
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 7:51:56 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi bob ,,, you may need more that 12v as 12v at 50 amps ( what a 9 pulls
without load ) is about 1/2 a hp . what kind of ratio did you use .. I just
hooked the power steering up on the Saturn I'm doing , I used the water pump
pully as the drive pully , I welded it on a hub I made , so I'm about 1 to 1
.. It works on 12v but just ... Are you seeing it slow the motor down when you
trun the wheel . ?
Steve Clunn
>
> From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/12/13 Wed AM 02:00:47 EST
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: 88 Jetta power steering stuff??
>
> Hi EVerybody;;
>
> Anybody fool around with power steering stuff? I'm trying to get my 88
> Jetta's to work. running the PS pump off the motor. Running the motor in
> neutral, on 12 volts it SHOULD be running up enough to make the damn P.S.
> work? Right? I think I have it running the correct direction, I tried both,
> thinking I have it bracketed bass ackwards, no difference.Bought a new
> resovoir that doesn't leak, the issue the other night.I don't think you
> would hafta bleed it or something?It has the two hoses, intake and output. I
> don't think it is Rocket Science, must be SOMETHING I'm doing wrong?
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:01:30 -0800 (PST)
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Details on Why Nimh Cannot be Paralleled
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Thanks for posting that. So once the test packs were out-of-balance, how did
you rebalance them? Trickle charge? Or did you just run a few cycles with your
BMS? Thanks for the info, I'm rooting for great success for what you are doing.
----- Original Message ----
From: Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 11:30:30 AM
Subject: Details on Why Nimh Cannot be Paralleled
We finally got a chance to post some graphs. Some of you may have
seen these graphs already.
http://www.airlabcorp.com
http://www.airlabcorp.com/web/charge_discharge_curves.htm
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
____________________________________________________________________________________
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:22:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 88 Jetta power steering stuff??
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Dana Havranek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have a pump direct
> coupled to a 3/4 hp DC motor running off a little speed controller and I can
> dial thing way down
> and still get assist.
>
Could you give us some of the details? What motor? What controller?
Thanks
Dave Cover
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:23:51 -0600
From: "Eric Wiemer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: any one know more about this?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/06/waterfuel.html
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:27:28 -0800
From: "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 2-Speed Transmission Using a Differential?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
On 12/13/06, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> THink about this a bit. In order to get 1/2 speed on the output, the
> small motor has to hold has to hold it's shaft stalled with the same
> torque that the big motor is inputing. In other words the "small" motor
> has to be as powerfull as the "big" motor and has to be able to hold a
> stalled position.
Not really. With the gear reduction (plus the differential final drive
ratio of normally 1:3.5), the small motor only needs to hold a
fraction of the torque.
>
> To get some other speed the "small" motor has to spin at some other speed
> with the same torque as the "big" motor.
Good point, if you want a CVT-like performance.
>
> Ideally you need two motors/controllers where you can precisely controll
> the RPMs and Torque independently, I.e. you have to be able to
> independently control RPM vs torque on each motor as well as independently
> controlling these variables between one motor and the other.
>
> > (View with fixed-width font)
> >
> > What if I connect a small permanent magnet motor with a gear reduction
> > on one side of a differential and a large traction motor on the other
> > side of the differential like the ASCII diagram below? I would have a
> > 3 speed transmission.
> >
> > 1st gear
> > Connect the PM motor to the pack with a diode to allow the PM motor to
> > recharge the pack when its voltage is higher than the pack. When this
> > happens, the PM motor would apply a torque thru the reduction grear to
> > its side of the differential. Essentially, you will have a torque
> > converter that pretty much locks up when the RPM is higher than some
> > value. And, the drive ratio is > 1:1.
> >
> > 2nd gear
> > Lock the disk brake. The drive ratio would be 1:1.
> >
> > Of course, this assumes that the differential would not fail first due
> > to the improper application.
> >
> > Would this work?
> >
> > Drive| Gear
> > Shalf| Reduction
> > |
> > | -- | ----
> > _+_ | |--+-| |
> > / \___| | | ----
> > \ / -- PM Motor
> > -+- ^
> > | Disk
> > ----- Brake
> > | |
> > | |
> > | |Traction
> > | | Motor
> > | |
> > -----
> >
> > --
> > Edward Ang
> > President
> > AIR Lab Corp
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Load testing methods
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 01:19:13 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I should add i didn't bought the Fluke for that purpose as it's cost alone
make this...unreasonable for a simple load tester :^)
What i like with a mosfet load (compared to coat hanger) is that you have
precise and selectable constant current
I turn the pot and have from 0 to +100Amps available easily so it suits all
my battery testing needs.
Circuit is very easy to do as most "difficult" part is heatsinking.
In have big heatsinks in funnel configuration + 220V AC fan at bottom but at
more than 600W it still
overheat so i'm designing a water cooled version :^)
Get a look at Maxim datasheet about dummy load application note (max480)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 11:52 PM
Subject: RE: Load testing methods
> Another method, similar to what Philippe does, is to get a Radio Shack
RS232
> meter. You can either use a shunt or a clip on ammeter unit. Combine
this
> with the good ol' "coat hanger in a bucket of water" and not only do you
> have a logging load tester, but you can use this meter for a wide variety
of
> other measurements and recordings. Costs about $100 for the whole setup.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> "It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the
strong
> man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit
> belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
> dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up
short
> again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming,
> but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends
himself
> for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of
high
> achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while
> daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid
> souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Philippe Borges
> Sent: December 13, 2006 11:40 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Load testing methods
>
> Design is simple it's a mosfet used as a resistor.
> I made similar 100V600W variable charge and can go further but heatsink is
> going to be huge !
> I record Volt/amp with fluke 123
>
> cordialement,
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 2:19 AM
> Subject: Re: Load testing methods
>
>
> > When I first saw that unit I wondered if it could be hacked to report
> > 10 or 100 times what it's spec'd for? Adding more load is not that
> > hard. Just getting it to cooperate might be.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > You will go nowhere with it's 150w max limit !
> > > 3A under 48V...
> > >
> > > ---------- Initial Header -----------
> > >
> > > >From : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > To : <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Cc :
> > > Date : Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:46:03 -0800
> > > Subject : RE: Load testing methods
> > >
> > > An interesting option for load testing is the CBA (computerized
battery
> > > analyzer) offered at www.westmountainradio.com . Operating at up to
> > 48v,
> > > it'll discharge a battery or bank to prescribed voltage discharge
> > limits at
> > > constant load and store the data to your USB-attached
> > computer...might be a
> > > spendy option...
> > > Here's the CBA link: http://www.westmountainradio.com/CBA.htm
> > > -MT
> > >
> > > > - How to make a battery tester, this is from Joe Smalley
> > > >
> > > > 1) Take a coat hanger with .093 wire, it will draw about 150 amps
> > > > from a 12 volt battery, 100 amps from an 8 volt battery or 75
> > > > amps from a 6 volt battery.
> > > >
> > > > 2) Parallel two or more to get more current.
> > > >
> > > > 3) Connect the coat hanger to some 6 gage or larger jumper cables
> > > > and submerge the wire in water. Don't use a plastic bucket. The
> > > > hot wire can make it leak.
> > > >
> > > > 4) Connect your voltmeter to the battery terminals of the battery
> > > > under test.
> > > >
> > > > 5) Connect the jumper cables to the battery terminals.
> > > >
> > > > 6) Wait for a fixed amount of time (your choice on how far you
> > > > want to discharge the batteries) and read the final voltage.
> > > >
> > > > Disconnect the jumper cables from the battery and record the
> > > > voltage. The bad ones show up pretty quickly using this test.
> > > >
> > > > Rush
> > > > Tucson AZ
> > > > www.ironandwood.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --------------------- ALICE SECURITE ENFANTS ---------------------
> > > Protégez vos enfants des dangers d'Internet en installant Sécurité
> > Enfants, le contrôle parental d'Alice.
> > > http://www.aliceadsl.fr/securitepc/default_copa.asp
> > >
> >
> >
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:43:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 1200A Raptor
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi Dennis,
Peter Senkowski, of Myers Motors is a good friend
of the inventor/manufacturer of the Raptor. Peter has
rights/whatever to continue manufacturing. He
discontinued the 600A line, but found a way to use the
cases for the 600A model and put 1200A of capability
into them. The 1200A model has been manufactured
continuously, more or less-- 50/yr? Ie, they are
_still_ being manufactured-- never stopped. Peter is
using them for his Sparrow line.
I get mine tomorrow! It's being tested as we
speak.
It retains the same wiring harness as the original
600A. Hope that helps,
--- "Pestka, Dennis J"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The latest addition in the EV Album is a 1997 Saturn
> from Tim C of
> Trenton Ohio.
> He states that he just ordered a 1200A Raptor from
> KTA Services.
> Are the Raptors being manufactured again ?
> Can anyone shed any light on this ?
>
> Thanks;
> Dennis
>
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*
> * * * *
> * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---
> *
> * This post contains a forbidden message format
> *
> * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML
> formatting) *
> * Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT
> *
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> adjusting *
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> * * * *
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C71EEF.41ECC4C7"
> Subject: 1200A Raptor
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 13:45:35 -0600
> Message-ID:
>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> X-MS-Has-Attach:
> X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Thread-Topic: 1200A Raptor
> Thread-Index: Acce70FQlPShhVbFS8mNGCNiA/wTQA==
> From: "Pestka, Dennis J"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV Discussion Group--
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:57:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: any one know more about this?
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Neat report from Fox News. Considering it's 'fair and
balanced reporting' I'm sure this has merit ;-)
Just in case this is true I'll buy some stock in
water.
Just think, the great lakes will become the new middle
east of transportation fuel.
Maybe Steve Clunn could add a windmill on the hood of
future conversions for extended range in the desert.
What do you think Steve? time for a new windmill
contest?
Rod
--- Eric Wiemer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/06/waterfuel.html
>
>
--- End Message ---
