EV Digest 6215
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: any one know more about this?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: DC converter wiring and safety contactors
by "John Foster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: copy of PB-6
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: any one know more about this?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) regen braking
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) winter vacation and EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Solectria DMOC445 manual
by "Robyn Lundstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: 1200A Raptor
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Surplus Batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) RE: HHO? any one know more about this?
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: winter vacation and EV
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: regen braking
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 1200A Raptor
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: [BULK] Re: A different kind of EV video :) .. 3 wheeler EV ..
stability issues
by "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: A different kind of EV video :)
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) 3 Wheelers WAS Re: [BULK] Re: A different kind of EV video :) .. 3
wheeler EV .. stability issues
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: winter vacation and EV
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Galvanization
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) OT. Changing the value of a wound resistor.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: HHO? any one know more about this?
by "David J. Hrivnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) If I only need a 5 mile range ... really
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: OT. Changing the value of a wound resistor.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: OT. Changing the value of a wound resistor.
by "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: 3 Wheelers WAS Re: [BULK] Re: A different kind of EV video :) .. 3
wheeler EV .. stability issues
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
"Brown's Gas" has two meanings. One is simply a mix of hydrogen and
oxygen. This is of course completely "real". It burns and creates
steam and heat. It is used for welding, though more often called
"oxyhydrogen welding" (OHW) by the legitimate industry. It's not a
generally popular welding method for technical reasons but it apparently
has some uses.
"Brown's Gas" is a term more often used in the "fringe science" circles
for an electrolysis product which is supposed to have a fantastic
structure and fantastic properties. It is described as possibly
containing isomers and allotropes of hydrogen and oxygen, or monatomic
hydrogen, but despite years of "research" no one has actually done
anything in a real lab which is odd since x-ray diffraction and other
techniques can very quickly definitively reveal the true structure of a
substance. Supposedly a special electrolytic cell makes it (which these
guys will sell you secret plans for). Claims of what it does varies,
most common now is boosting the mpg of your car.
The term "Brown's Gas" and "Rhode's Gas" are often interchangeable. HHO
and Aquygen seem to be the same claim once again, although these terms
are trademarked by one company.
Danny
GWMobile wrote:
There are several whole functioning companies building brown gas
generators and they are used for welding all over the world.
Not a scam.
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 6:40 am, David Sharpe wrote:
If I recall my chemistry there is a method of disassociating water into
oxygen & atomic hydrogen. Perhaps this is the H-H referred to. Atomic
hydrogen yields more energy on recombination (combustion) to water than
molecular (H2) hydrogen.
David Sharpe
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Thursday, 14 December 2006 4:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: any one know more about this?
Yes that is a famous (infamous) video. He claims to make mysterious
"special" hydrogen + oxygen from electrolysis that he calls "HHO",
"hybrid hydrogen", or "Aquygen" with properties that normal hydrogen +
oxygen does not have. This has also been called "Brown's Gas" or
"Rhode's Gas" by prior inventors. I don't see any way his claims could
be possible nor has the scientific community backed him up (or his many
predecessors making similar claims). Oxygen-Hydrogen welding has been
around for a very long time but for technical reasons it is inferior to
common welding methods in common applications. He claims to be able to
run a car or dramatically extend car MPG. Again, old scam, no evidence
at all.
I believe this is his website:
http://hytechapps.com/aquygen
Having said that, I'm going to point out this is "quack science" and
thus Off-Topic. Even if it were not seen as quackery it's still OT
unless you can make electricity out of it.
Danny
Eric Wiemer wrote:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/06/waterfuel.html
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the clear summary Lee,
I am also looking at DCDC configuration, for the Dynasty IT.
Our most common problem with DCDC's was the aux battery getting discharged
with the car (&DCDC) off. When the car turned on, the DCDC would burn out
charging up the dead aux battery. Sometimes it was the dome light, sometimes
the brake pedal switch out of adjustment.
The *best* solution as you have outlined is to have a 14V DCDC for running,
with a small battery as backup with an appropriate "smart" charger. This
requires at least a diode and keyed contactor?
This a lot of extra stuff to buy, mount, and remain reliable.
I like KISS, as the last S stands for me. Not wanting to add more stuff, I
verified the peak capacity of the DCDC, eliminated the aux battery, did
extensive adhoc burn-in tests and we have had no problems since (knocks on
head).
Does this sound ok? How could I verify what the long term reliability will
be?
- John
John Foster
Vancouver BC
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 8:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: DC converter wiring and safety contactors
John wrote:
> What are the benefits and drawbacks of wiring a DC-DC converter to be
> always on versus switched on by the key switch? My planned vehicle usage
> is a daily commute of about 1.25 hrs total drive time (about 40 min each
> way).
There has been a lot of discussion on this (check the archives). Both
always-on and on-only-while-driving can work.
If you leave the DC/DC "on" all the time:
----------------------------------------
You'll need to set a low enough DC/DC "float" voltage so you won't
overcharge it. Typically, this means about 13.5v for a lead-acid
battery. It should be temperature compensated, or you'll overcharge in
hot weather, and undercharge in cold weather.
This is lower than a car's normal system voltage (14v), so your
headlights may be a bit dimmer, and your wipers a bit slower (like a
normal ICE car when the engine is idling).
The battery is unlikely to last more than 2-3 years. After that amount
of time, the battery will still appear to work, but most of its amphour
capacity will be gone due to water loss and grid corrosion.
If you leave the car parked for long periods without use, the 12v
battery stays charged. But the propulsion pack as a whole runs down. It
will discharge the entire pack if you leave it for months.
If you leave the DC/DC "on" continuously:
----------------------------------------
You need to set a high enough DC/DC voltage so the battery will be fully
charged in the brief on-time available. This could be 13.8v for a car
driven for hours every day, to 14.4v for a car only driven 1 hour a week.
Wipers are faster, and lights are brighter... but will also burn out
sooner (especially as you go above 14v).
If you set the DC/DC voltage too low, or don't drive very often, your
12v battery never gets fully charged. It tends to last a long time,
though it loses capacity.
If you set the DC/DC voltage too high, or drive a lot, the battery tends
to overcharge and die early.
If you have different DC/DC voltages for "on" and "off":
-------------------------------------------------------
Since you rarely know how many hours per week your EV will be driven, a
better arrangement is to leave the DC/DC "on" all the time, but set it
to a low voltage when not driving, and a higher voltage while driving.
This way you have a safe "float" voltage that won't slowly overcharge
the battery to death (like 13.2v), and a "driving" voltage that will
fully charge the battery and give you normal brightness headlights (like
14.2v).
The ideal setup:
---------------
There is no one "correct" voltage for the DC/DC to insure longest
battery life. What you really want is a battery charger, not a constant
voltage power supply that happens to have a battery on it.
Ideally, you would have one DC/DC converter to supply a steady 14v for
the vehicle's loads, and a *separate* 12v battery charger that powers
the DC/DC converter if the propulsion pack fails. This backup battery
only needs to be big enough for emergency loads, like emergency
flashers, in case the main DC/DC fails.
> Would I need a relay on both the positive and negative leads from
> the traction pack to the DC/DC?
No; you generally don't *need* to break both sides of the input power to
the DC/DC. However, you might *choose* to do so, for various reasons.
The relay or switch might need 2 or more sections in series to have an
adequate voltage rating.
For serviceability, you might want both sides broken.
> (The converter is a CC power 400watt converter that has a 20amp fuse
> that looks to be on the input side)
Make sure the fuse is DC rated for your pack voltage.
> Would the relay or relays need a snubber circuit as is recommended for
> ceramic heater relays?
Yes, but the relay/contact protection network is different. Most DC/DCs
are actually AC power supplies, and have huge input filter capacitors.
These cause a tremendous turn-on current surge, but negligible turn-off
current. So, your protection network is not protecting against inductive
turn-off voltage spikes, but rather capacitive turn-on surges.
These are generally called "precharge" or "inrush limiter" circuits
rather than snubbers.
> Do I get any benefits from adding a single safety contactor? If yes, in
> positive or negative lead? The appropriate sized contactors are not
> cheap. I don't recall hearing of others conversion that include them.
There is no standard answer; it all depends on exactly how your EV is
built and wired.
Safety is the "what if..." game:
- What if... all your battery terminals are exposed, so any passing
child can touch them?
- What if... your batteries are under the hood, and there's an
inside hood release, so only responsible adults can get under there?
- What if... your batteries are in totally sealed boxes, that can
only be accessed by someone with tools and special equipment?
Each situation requires different degrees of safety. For each component,
you need to assess how what kind of fault conditions are possible, and
what is the likelihood of them occurring. Then you pick your safety
system components to provide adequate protection.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> i could find out .. since i am stationed presently in india
> who makes it ? any links, info, addy, telephone number ?
> ..peekay
http://www.fourthgen.net/
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:19 PM
> Subject: copy of PB-6
>
> > Has anyone used or know anything about this potbox? Supposed to be
> > a direct
> > replacement made in India.
> > ebay # 150070853551
> > Joseph H. Strubhar
> > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Web: www.gremcoinc.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The conversion they do is not to hydrogen and oxygen.
And the recombination is not back to water.
They water gas or browns gas essential becomes a fyel that transitions
to a different product not water.
So the recombination change doesn't violate the law.
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 9:57 am, Myles Twete wrote:
As far as I know this cutting technique is already in use. They did
say 4
ounces of water in 100 miles. They said it could run exclusivelsy on
HHO
but the demo car was a hybrid. It seems to me that HHO is easier to
electrolize than H & O2. They probably said 4ounces in 100 miles
because
that's all the alternator could put out in amps to electrolize that
much
water. They call what they have an additive I can see a small
benefit.
How could there be a benefit?
I mean, if we believe the laws of physics, we know that nothing is 100%
efficient.
Loss happens.
So, given a commercial alternator is AT BEST 85% efficient (if it's a
several hundred $$$ Bosch) and given that getting hydrogen via
electrolysis
is at best 50% efficient (big ass SWAG), and assuming that burning the
hydrogen with the existing fuel yields the same efficiency, then AT
BEST,
you can only LOSE energy with this.
I mean, if it takes 1 gallon of fuel to go 30 miles down the road with
little alternator load, then add mechanically loading of the alternator
to
generate electricity to electrolyze hydrogen and the losses from
mechanical
to hydrogen fuel will be at least 57.5%.
So, if the alternator uses 10% of the available motor torque, a 30mpg
unloaded economy would drop to 27mpg + 3*0.57, or 28.7mpg.
Considering this reduced economy, plus the added weight, cost and
complexity, why bother?
The ONLY way it would make sense is if the efficiency of electrolyzing
the
water was vastly more efficient AND IF the alternator were connected as
part
of DYNAMIC BRAKING, retrieving up to 43% of braking energy. Since I
didn't
really read the original post, maybe that was the key here...?
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
anyone have a suggestions for regen braking? looking for different
controllers. would like some for some different voltage systems 48v, 72v and
96v+
the only thing i've seen is the following, and the folks selling it said you
would only get about 3% back from it?
Controller Navitas TPM 24-48V 400A Regen
http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/product_p/co-tpm400.htm
check out my blog:
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
---------------------------------
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the help on the heater and hall effect pedal. I guess I'm
looking for some reassurance for many things.
Here's another one. I'm going out of country for 3 weeks (winter time).
I don't have a heated garage (but its better than no garage)
So, my choices are (for the Trojan batteries)
1 leave the car on the Zivan float charge all 3 weeks.
2 Have a friend unplug and replug the Zivan 3 times.
3 Unplug the car for 3 weeks.
4 If I can trust him, have my friend who isn't fond of electric cars drive
it once per week and plug it in (and hope he doesn't damage anything)
My only EV friend who I would have trusted this task to is out of state
also.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Does anyone have a DMOC445 user manual and/or service manual in electronic
form that you can send me a link to? I found the spec sheet on several
sites, but I need more information than a bulleted feature list :)
Thanks,
Robyn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Your history on the Raptor controller series leaves a LOT to be desired...
Like about 5 years of Zero production...
And the fact that the Raptor was invented by Damon Crocket and I at DCP in
the late 90s.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: 1200A Raptor
> Hi Dennis,
> Peter Senkowski, of Myers Motors is a good friend
> of the inventor/manufacturer of the Raptor. Peter has
> rights/whatever to continue manufacturing. He
> discontinued the 600A line, but found a way to use the
> cases for the 600A model and put 1200A of capability
> into them. The 1200A model has been manufactured
> continuously, more or less-- 50/yr? Ie, they are
> _still_ being manufactured-- never stopped. Peter is
> using them for his Sparrow line.
> I get mine tomorrow! It's being tested as we
> speak.
> It retains the same wiring harness as the original
> 600A. Hope that helps,
>
> --- "Pestka, Dennis J"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > The latest addition in the EV Album is a 1997 Saturn
> > from Tim C of
> > Trenton Ohio.
> > He states that he just ordered a 1200A Raptor from
> > KTA Services.
> > Are the Raptors being manufactured again ?
> > Can anyone shed any light on this ?
> >
> > Thanks;
> > Dennis
> >
> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> *
> > * * * *
> > * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---
> > *
> > * This post contains a forbidden message format
> > *
> > * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML
> > formatting) *
> > * Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT
> > *
> > * If your postings display this message your mail
> > program *
> > * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs
> > adjusting *
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > * * * *
> >
> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C71EEF.41ECC4C7"
> > Subject: 1200A Raptor
> > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 13:45:35 -0600
> > Message-ID:
> >
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > X-MS-Has-Attach:
> > X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
> >
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Thread-Topic: 1200A Raptor
> > Thread-Index: Acce70FQlPShhVbFS8mNGCNiA/wTQA==
> > From: "Pestka, Dennis J"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "EV Discussion Group--
> >
>
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> Learn more at:
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
________
> Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it
now.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I regularly trawl the surplus electronics sites, and althoguh this one is no
good to me because it's US based, they have some excellent battery deals
whcih I thought might be of interest to the US members of the group, such as
1700mAh 8.4V NiMH packs for $1.39 when bought in 100's.
I guess some of the batterues won't be much good for high discharge rates,
but there seems to be the odd one or two useful item.
The main 'traders.net' site whcih created this battery only store also has a
lot of useful surplus,. As always bear in mind the stuff is surplus and it
might pay to enquire about manufacturing dates and so on.
For batteries.... _www.batteriesbatteries.com_
(http://www.batteriesbatteries.com)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This video is BS im studying chem right now and HHO gas can not exist.
Simply putting it hydrogen only has one bonding electron and therfore can
only bond to one other molecule (look in the periodic table!) HHO the
hydrogen in the middle means that it is both bonded to oxygen and a hydrogen
at the same time which is impossible! Also the oxygen is only using one of
its bonding electrons so that makes this molocule completley unstable.
Impossible!
I took this from one of the websites that has information on HHO gas and it
does not make sense.
"This machine separates hydrogen and oxygen from water and mixes them back
together stoichiometrically in a new way. Water is HOH, Browns Gas is HHO.
You can weld with HHO. It is a pure gas (water)."
Stoichiometrically in a new way?!?! that dosn't make any sense
Stoichiometry is how you predict how much of one substance it will take to
react fully with another substance. You use the substances molar mass and
molar ratio to find equal moles of the two substances.
In the video it did not look like something new and revolutionary at all, it
just looked like he was burning hydrogen gas. H2 Each hydrogen is bonded
with one other molecule making a somewhat stable molocule. When 2 moles of
H2 gas reacts with 1 mole of O2 gas (oxygen) it forms 2 moles of water
2(H2O). This makes alot of sense.
From: "Eric Wiemer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: any one know more about this?
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:23:51 -0600
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/06/waterfuel.html
_________________________________________________________________
Download now! Visit http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/ to enter and see
how cool it is to get Messenger with you on your cell phone.
http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It depends on your charger.
There are chargers that will float your pack.
A lead acid battery loses about 5% per month of its'
charge. I'd charge them well, and leave 'em, provided
my batt. tops are clean.
The big issue is leaving _discharged_ batteries!
Hope that helps,
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Thanks for the help on the heater and hall effect
> pedal. I guess I'm
> looking for some reassurance for many things.
>
> Here's another one. I'm going out of country for 3
> weeks (winter time).
> I don't have a heated garage (but its better than no
> garage)
>
> So, my choices are (for the Trojan batteries)
> 1 leave the car on the Zivan float charge all 3
> weeks.
> 2 Have a friend unplug and replug the Zivan 3 times.
> 3 Unplug the car for 3 weeks.
> 4 If I can trust him, have my friend who isn't fond
> of electric cars drive
> it once per week and plug it in (and hope he doesn't
> damage anything)
>
> My only EV friend who I would have trusted this task
> to is out of state
> also.
>
> Ben
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
heres one for you...
The sevcon 24-48 volt 325 Amp Four Quadrent Regen Controller
From: dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: regen braking
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 13:43:52 -0800 (PST)
anyone have a suggestions for regen braking? looking for different
controllers. would like some for some different voltage systems 48v, 72v
and 96v+
the only thing i've seen is the following, and the folks selling it said
you would only get about 3% back from it?
Controller Navitas TPM 24-48V 400A Regen
http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/product_p/co-tpm400.htm
check out my blog:
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
---------------------------------
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
_________________________________________________________________
Download now! Visit http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/ to enter and see
how cool it is to get Messenger with you on your cell phone.
http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you re-read my post, I did list that Peter is a
friend of the manufacturer. I didn't see the point of
listing Damon by name, as he's AllTrax, not DCP these
days, as far as street-EVers are.
Didn't realize you had such a big hand inventing them,
nor did I realize there was no prod. for 5 years. Mea
culpa! But I did address the issue at hand, which is
"Is it possible to get 1200A controllers!
TTFN,
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Your history on the Raptor controller series leaves
> a LOT to be desired...
>
> Like about 5 years of Zero production...
> And the fact that the Raptor was invented by Damon
> Crocket and I at DCP in
> the late 90s.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:43 PM
> Subject: Re: 1200A Raptor
>
>
> > Hi Dennis,
> > Peter Senkowski, of Myers Motors is a good
> friend
> > of the inventor/manufacturer of the Raptor. Peter
> has
> > rights/whatever to continue manufacturing. He
> > discontinued the 600A line, but found a way to use
> the
> > cases for the 600A model and put 1200A of
> capability
> > into them. The 1200A model has been manufactured
> > continuously, more or less-- 50/yr? Ie, they are
> > _still_ being manufactured-- never stopped. Peter
> is
> > using them for his Sparrow line.
> > I get mine tomorrow! It's being tested as we
> > speak.
> > It retains the same wiring harness as the original
> > 600A. Hope that helps,
> >
> > --- "Pestka, Dennis J"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > The latest addition in the EV Album is a 1997
> Saturn
> > > from Tim C of
> > > Trenton Ohio.
> > > He states that he just ordered a 1200A Raptor
> from
> > > KTA Services.
> > > Are the Raptors being manufactured again ?
> > > Can anyone shed any light on this ?
> > >
> > > Thanks;
> > > Dennis
> > >
> > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> * *
> > *
> > > * * * *
> > > * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---
> > > *
> > > * This post contains a forbidden message
> format
> > > *
> > > * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML
> > > formatting) *
> > > * Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN
> TEXT
> > > *
> > > * If your postings display this message your
> mail
> > > program *
> > > * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs
> > > adjusting *
> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> * *
> > > * * * *
> > >
> > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C71EEF.41ECC4C7"
> > > Subject: 1200A Raptor
> > > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 13:45:35 -0600
> > > Message-ID:
> > >
> >
>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > X-MS-Has-Attach:
> > > X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
> > >
> >
>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Thread-Topic: 1200A Raptor
> > > Thread-Index: Acce70FQlPShhVbFS8mNGCNiA/wTQA==
> > > From: "Pestka, Dennis J"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "EV Discussion Group--
> > >
> >
> >
> > Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> > has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch
> too!
> > Learn more at:
> > www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> > ____
> > __/__|__\ __
> > =D-------/ - - \
> > 'O'-----'O'-'
> > Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe
> came out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> ________
> > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at
> www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it
> now.
> >
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Want to start your own business?
Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the experiments we've done with 3 wheel bicycles, (yes, some of them
were EV's) you definitely want the two wheels in front for cornering.
If you are turning and braking, then a three wheeler with one wheel in
front goes right over on it's side. I'm skeptical of all the commercial
3-wheeler EV's out there. The steering wheels need to be in front, a
rear steer vehicle is possible but creates some interesting challenges.
Lawrence Lile,
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of peekay
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [BULK] Re: A different kind of EV video :) .. 3 wheeler EV ..
stability issues
Importance: Low
hi nikki .. that was quick .. the response i mean
(btw, you look very professional in the video)
i have been tinkering with this 3 wheel idea for
a long time .. the steering is usually done by the
one wheel .. but placing the two wheels in the
front should be more "stable" when turning
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "nikki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: A different kind of EV video :)
> Well, the Mini EL is pretty stable - but I see where you're going.
>
> The only fault I'd give the El in terms of stability is the way it
> really badly under-steers if you take a corner too fast. Because it's
> only 3 and a half feet wide you can normally get away with it (you
> get used to going in a corner low and coming out high)
>
> There are of course some EVs that are the other way around (2+1) but
> I think they steer from the front. I'm sure someone will correct me
> if I'm wrong ;)
> <snipped>
> Nikki.
>
>
> On 14 Dec 2006, at 13:44, peekay wrote:
>
> > very nice
> >
> > ..peekay
> >
> > (if one makes a 3wheeled ev, would it be more
> > stable if the 2 wheels are up front and the 1 wheel
> > is at the rear .. steering still would be by that one
> > wheel at the rear .. shd be more stable)
> >
___________________________________________________________
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
peekay wrote:
(if one makes a 3wheeled ev, would it be more
stable if the 2 wheels are up front and the 1 wheel
is at the rear .. steering still would be by that one
wheel at the rear .. shd be more stable)
With rare exceptions, virtually all tadpole and delta trikes steer with the
front wheels-
http://www.wizwheelz.com/
http://www.greenspeed.com.au/
http://www.windcheetah.co.uk/
One exception is the "Sidewinder" stunt trike. Fun at slow speeds, you can
spin it like a top until you puke if you like (personally tested :^D),
but... at anything over about 15 mph, it is extremely dangerous and
unstable. But fun!
http://www.sidewindercycle.com/
...
Roy LeMeur
_________________________________________________________________
Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:55 PM
Subject: RE: [BULK] Re: A different kind of EV video :) .. 3 wheeler EV ..
stability issues
>
> In the experiments we've done with 3 wheel bicycles, (yes, some of them
> were EV's) you definitely want the two wheels in front for cornering.
> If you are turning and braking, then a three wheeler with one wheel in
> front goes right over on it's side. I'm skeptical of all the commercial
> 3-wheeler EV's out there. The steering wheels need to be in front, a
> rear steer vehicle is possible but creates some interesting challenges.
>
>
>
> Lawrence Lile,
> Hi Lawrence, an" EVerybody;
I'll go along with Jerry Dycus as to the two wheels on a 3 wheeler gotta
go up front!In my tour of duties in the Orient I saw a lot of 3 wheelers.
Mazdas I think, that resemble the Zap 3 wheel truck. Hidiously overloaded
they trundled thrrough the street of Taipei and Saigon.( Gees! That dates
me) I never saw any overturned, but they don't drive like Americans, pushing
the limit of EVery vehicle!I saw a Zap a few months ago, asked the guy he
said it turned over too easy, or something to that effect. it would appear
to defy the laws of physics, like 300MPH plus Top Fuel Cars, when you try to
bend it around a corner? Of course it will want to roll! I don't think there
are ANY 3 wheel hiway worthy one- in-front cars?? Flame suit on, tell me IF
there are? There are 3 wheel Trikes, motorcycles, but not many cars.I think
that with the batteries properly placed in a 3 wheeler, it will handle
beautifully? Jerry D? The real wheel is just providing the push, not
steering. It would seem like alota work to make the REAR wheel steer, you
would haftas use the front as a power axle, Guess it would work?
My two Wheels worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ben;
ONLY 3 weeks?! Hell, just charge it up good, leave it in the cold garage
and forgetabout it!But a BIG but, are your tops of the batteries clean? Hose
them off if not? Crap, wet tops, dust etc will discharge them nicely if left
alone.When ya come home top it off and go for a spin.
Have a good Vacation!
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 4:53 PM
Subject: winter vacation and EV
> Thanks for the help on the heater and hall effect pedal. I guess I'm
> looking for some reassurance for many things.
>
> Here's another one. I'm going out of country for 3 weeks (winter time).
> I don't have a heated garage (but its better than no garage)
>
> So, my choices are (for the Trojan batteries)
> 1 leave the car on the Zivan float charge all 3 weeks.
> 2 Have a friend unplug and replug the Zivan 3 times.
> 3 Unplug the car for 3 weeks.
> 4 If I can trust him, have my friend who isn't fond of electric cars drive
> it once per week and plug it in (and hope he doesn't damage anything)
>
> My only EV friend who I would have trusted this task to is out of state
> also.
>
> Ben
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/586 - Release Date: 12/13/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone i am doing a project on galvanization and would like to know a
few products that are galvanized and what kind of metals are used for
galvanizing. Any info on this subject would be great.
_________________________________________________________________
Not only does WindowsOff to school, going on a trip, or moving? Windows Live
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have an 8 inch wound risistor that is 500 ohms. I need a 250 ohm resistor
of the same length. Can I insert solder between the windings to reduce the
resistance of the resistor untill I have the resistance I want? The
resistance must still change gradually up and down the length of the
resistor. Lawrence Rhodes.........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I too believe this is bogus. But on the SLIGHT chance it was for real I
singed up for more information and even to buy a welder. As I suspected my
e-mails and calls have remained unanswered.
David J. Hrivnak
www.hrivnak.com
Personal Account WWJD?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tim Gamber
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: HHO? any one know more about this?
This video is BS im studying chem right now and HHO gas can not exist.
Simply putting it hydrogen only has one bonding electron and therfore can
only bond to one other molecule (look in the periodic table!) HHO the
hydrogen in the middle means that it is both bonded to oxygen and a hydrogen
at the same time which is impossible! Also the oxygen is only using one of
its bonding electrons so that makes this molocule completley unstable.
Impossible!
I took this from one of the websites that has information on HHO gas and it
does not make sense.
"This machine separates hydrogen and oxygen from water and mixes them back
together stoichiometrically in a new way. Water is HOH, Browns Gas is HHO.
You can weld with HHO. It is a pure gas (water)."
Stoichiometrically in a new way?!?! that dosn't make any sense
Stoichiometry is how you predict how much of one substance it will take to
react fully with another substance. You use the substances molar mass and
molar ratio to find equal moles of the two substances.
In the video it did not look like something new and revolutionary at all, it
just looked like he was burning hydrogen gas. H2 Each hydrogen is bonded
with one other molecule making a somewhat stable molocule. When 2 moles of
H2 gas reacts with 1 mole of O2 gas (oxygen) it forms 2 moles of water
2(H2O). This makes alot of sense.
>From: "Eric Wiemer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: any one know more about this?
>Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:23:51 -0600
>
>http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/06/waterfuel.html
>
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In my Festiva, ADC 9" motor, 400 A Curtis controller, I only need a max 5 mile
range (its about 3.8 miles round trip). I want to lighten the car up and save
some money at the same time when I replace the pack.
If I put 10 of these in, do you think I could reliably get the 5 miles.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006121421031663&item=11-3096&catname=
That's only 120 V x 54 AH ... not much at all ... maybe a usable 5kWh.
Speeds are as follows:
~.5 miles - 25 MPH
~1 mile - 40 MPH
~.5 miles - 30 MPH
each way
4 - 5 stop signs / lights
all flat roads
Other ideas ...
Steve
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Lawrence,
It is best to use a resistor tap, which is a copper or plate copper strap
that is wrap around the mid point of the resistor. You can make this your
self out of a copper strap which you can wrap around the resistor and
tighten it with a bolt and nut by drilling a hole through the two ends of
the strap.
You can either bolt on a wire terminal to this bolt or solder the wire on
one of the ends.
Then you can adjust this strap for exactly any ohms you want.
Clean any insulation material that may be on the wire in the contact area.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:51 PM
Subject: OT. Changing the value of a wound resistor.
> I have an 8 inch wound risistor that is 500 ohms. I need a 250 ohm
> resistor
> of the same length. Can I insert solder between the windings to reduce
> the
> resistance of the resistor untill I have the resistance I want? The
> resistance must still change gradually up and down the length of the
> resistor. Lawrence Rhodes.........
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you have two of these just parallel them.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:51 PM
Subject: OT. Changing the value of a wound resistor.
I have an 8 inch wound risistor that is 500 ohms. I need a 250 ohm
resistor
of the same length. Can I insert solder between the windings to reduce
the
resistance of the resistor untill I have the resistance I want? The
resistance must still change gradually up and down the length of the
resistor. Lawrence Rhodes.........
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.19/587 - Release Date:
12/14/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<http://www.vigillante.com/vigillante1.htm>
One wheel in front, and claims to do 3 lateral g, and be very stable under
heavy breaking.
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:17:07 PM
Subject: 3 Wheelers WAS Re: [BULK] Re: A different kind of EV video :) .. 3
wheeler EV .. stability issues
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:55 PM
Subject: RE: [BULK] Re: A different kind of EV video :) .. 3 wheeler EV ..
stability issues
>
> In the experiments we've done with 3 wheel bicycles, (yes, some of them
> were EV's) you definitely want the two wheels in front for cornering.
> If you are turning and braking, then a three wheeler with one wheel in
> front goes right over on it's side. I'm skeptical of all the commercial
> 3-wheeler EV's out there. The steering wheels need to be in front, a
> rear steer vehicle is possible but creates some interesting challenges.
>
>
>
> Lawrence Lile,
> Hi Lawrence, an" EVerybody;
I'll go along with Jerry Dycus as to the two wheels on a 3 wheeler gotta
go up front!In my tour of duties in the Orient I saw a lot of 3 wheelers.
Mazdas I think, that resemble the Zap 3 wheel truck. Hidiously overloaded
they trundled thrrough the street of Taipei and Saigon.( Gees! That dates
me) I never saw any overturned, but they don't drive like Americans, pushing
the limit of EVery vehicle!I saw a Zap a few months ago, asked the guy he
said it turned over too easy, or something to that effect. it would appear
to defy the laws of physics, like 300MPH plus Top Fuel Cars, when you try to
bend it around a corner? Of course it will want to roll! I don't think there
are ANY 3 wheel hiway worthy one- in-front cars?? Flame suit on, tell me IF
there are? There are 3 wheel Trikes, motorcycles, but not many cars.I think
that with the batteries properly placed in a 3 wheeler, it will handle
beautifully? Jerry D? The real wheel is just providing the push, not
steering. It would seem like alota work to make the REAR wheel steer, you
would haftas use the front as a power axle, Guess it would work?
My two Wheels worth
Bob
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
