EV Digest 6218
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: A different kind of EV video :)
by "Alan Gideon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: 3 Wheelers WAS Re: [BULK] Re: A different kind of EV video :) .. 3
wheeler EV .. stability issues
by "Alan Gideon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Palm lll family battery problem
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Differential CVT ideas
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: planning on abusing a PMG132
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by Bryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: planning on abusing a PMG132
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Battery sizing etal from a newbie
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Galvanization
by Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Battery Question
by "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Lighted connectors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Elec-Trak mowers
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Elec-Trak mowers
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 3 Wheelers stability issues
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) EVLN(sciam.com : U.S. power plants provide enough juice)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) EVLN(Ferndale, MI's hybrid parking passes running flat)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) EVLN(A sudden surge in London nEV sales, milk float excitement)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) EVLN(%GEM nEVs need a larger fuel gauge to know when to charge%)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Power Steering (was 88 Jetta power steering stuff??)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Robert Quigley's web site has a pretty complete tutorial on the stability
and handling of three wheelers.
http://www.rqriley.com/download.html#technical
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of nikki
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:55 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: A different kind of EV video :)
Well, the Mini EL is pretty stable - but I see where you're going.
The only fault I'd give the El in terms of stability is the way it
really badly under-steers if you take a corner too fast. Because it's
only 3 and a half feet wide you can normally get away with it (you
get used to going in a corner low and coming out high)
There are of course some EVs that are the other way around (2+1) but
I think they steer from the front. I'm sure someone will correct me
if I'm wrong ;)
As a bit of an update to the video I've had over 1.790 views now.
I've been emailed by people from all over (and I've even had the
honor of talking to Chris Paine about it!)
As a consequence there will be more EV reviews to follow. Currently
arranging something with the NICE car as well as the TWIKE.
Ultimately it'd be nice to get this going as a web-based review series.
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
On 14 Dec 2006, at 13:44, peekay wrote:
> very nice
>
> ..peekay
>
> (if one makes a 3wheeled ev, would it be more
> stable if the 2 wheels are up front and the 1 wheel
> is at the rear .. steering still would be by that one
> wheel at the rear .. shd be more stable)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 11:06 AM
> Subject: Re: A different kind of EV video :)
>
>
>> Loved it. Good job. Lawrence Rhodes.....
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dana Havranek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 2:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: A different kind of EV video :)
>>
>>
>>> Really nice, Nikki!
>>> Enjoyed your video.
>>> Dana
>>>
>>> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>>> From: nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I've just uploaded a video which I made earlier on Saturday showing
>>>> off my little one-seat EV.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a399fIxp9-E
>>>>
>>>> Comments are welcome - it's designed to be a non-EV enthusiast's EV
>>>> report :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nikki.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________
>>>> Old car? New tricks?
>>>> Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
>>>>
>>>> E-minor isn't just a key any more...
>>>> _______________________________
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.16/582 - Release Date:
> 11/12/2006
>>
>>
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends http://
> uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The secret with all three wheelers is to make sure that the center of
gravity stays inside the "base cone", which can be determined graphically by
knowing the height of the CG, the maximum braking force, the horizontal
movement of the CG with braking, and the geometry of the triangular wheel
layout. http://www.rqriley.com/3-wheel.htm
I'm guessing that this car derives a good bit of its stability from having
the V-8 set close to the round and very close to the rear axle.
A re-read of the article says "you get a maximum theoretical tip-over limit
of 3.27 lateral g, which is greater than the tyres can generate, so it will
slide rather than tip over." Another key design feature in any vehicle. We
don't want them to trip over themselves. Max of 1g from the tires unless
you use wrinkle-sided tires like dragsters do; with a soft enough compound
they actually deform into the irregularities in the pavement, allowing
acceleration greater than 1g.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Dymaxion
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 3 Wheelers WAS Re: [BULK] Re: A different kind of EV video :)
.. 3 wheeler EV .. stability issues
<http://www.vigillante.com/vigillante1.htm>
One wheel in front, and claims to do 3 lateral g, and be very stable under
heavy breaking.
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:17:07 PM
Subject: 3 Wheelers WAS Re: [BULK] Re: A different kind of EV video :) ..
3 wheeler EV .. stability issues
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:55 PM
Subject: RE: [BULK] Re: A different kind of EV video :) .. 3 wheeler EV ..
stability issues
>
> In the experiments we've done with 3 wheel bicycles, (yes, some of them
> were EV's) you definitely want the two wheels in front for cornering.
> If you are turning and braking, then a three wheeler with one wheel in
> front goes right over on it's side. I'm skeptical of all the commercial
> 3-wheeler EV's out there. The steering wheels need to be in front, a
> rear steer vehicle is possible but creates some interesting challenges.
>
>
>
> Lawrence Lile,
> Hi Lawrence, an" EVerybody;
I'll go along with Jerry Dycus as to the two wheels on a 3 wheeler gotta
go up front!In my tour of duties in the Orient I saw a lot of 3 wheelers.
Mazdas I think, that resemble the Zap 3 wheel truck. Hidiously overloaded
they trundled thrrough the street of Taipei and Saigon.( Gees! That dates
me) I never saw any overturned, but they don't drive like Americans, pushing
the limit of EVery vehicle!I saw a Zap a few months ago, asked the guy he
said it turned over too easy, or something to that effect. it would appear
to defy the laws of physics, like 300MPH plus Top Fuel Cars, when you try to
bend it around a corner? Of course it will want to roll! I don't think there
are ANY 3 wheel hiway worthy one- in-front cars?? Flame suit on, tell me IF
there are? There are 3 wheel Trikes, motorcycles, but not many cars.I think
that with the batteries properly placed in a 3 wheeler, it will handle
beautifully? Jerry D? The real wheel is just providing the push, not
steering. It would seem like alota work to make the REAR wheel steer, you
would haftas use the front as a power axle, Guess it would work?
My two Wheels worth
Bob
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was doing some research on the Palm lllx that I am going to use for my Zilla
and learned that if you leave it in the hotsync cradle it drains the battery.
This is because the serial port is left open when it is in the cradle, a
problem that 3Com Tech support admits.
There are 2 fixes, one that cuts a wire in the cradle, instructions on
http://www.conklinsystems.com/palm/drainfix/
and the 2nd which makes a modified serial to serial connection to put at the PC
end of the cradle connector which has a jumper wire in it that disables the
drain
http://www.cesium.com/pilotdtr/
The http://www.cesium.com/pilotdtr/ site has a good electrical explanation and
references another page
http://www.massena.com/darrin/pilot/luiz/item6.htm which shows the schematic
diagram of RS232 interface.
Here is all about the internals of a Palm, want to put 2 meg of memory in your
Palm? http://www.massena.com/darrin/pilot/luiz/item1.htm
I am also looking for the program FlashPro that flashes programs into the chip
of the Palm, so if anybody has it could you send it to me?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Reading about using a differential as a way to control output speed through
the use of two independant inputdrives reminded me of a machine I used to
have to repair. it was a large electronic printing machine which had a large
propshaft which ran through the back of the machine to drive each different
'print engine'.
In order to get perfect registration all printing stations need to run at
exactly the same speed, the way the speed was controlled at each of the print
engines was through a differential tied into a stepper motor.
Stepper motors have very high 'holding torque' values and they were mounted
on one 'side' of the differential, while the main drive form a 10HP motor came
into the other 'side'. The perpendicular output shaft, which equates to the
input propshaft of a car's dif, fed the print engine at 90 degrees.
The way the speed was controlled was to allow the stepper to 'slip' in a
controlled manner. when the stepper was held stationary the output speed was
equal to the main drive motor's input speed (divided by the diff ratio) and to
slow down the output shaft to the engine the stepper was back-slipped
......this meant that one drive motor could drive several print engines at a
constant
speed, but each engine could control it's own speed, and therefore 'gearing'
by slipping the stepper motor.
As far as I am aware the stepper was never strong enough to provide positive
drive and only ever operated as a slipping brake. Later on the steppers were
replaced with DC servo motors which didn't make an awful lot of
differnece....I believe they were added because they could at some point in
the future
help to increase the speed of the machine but the machine was a prototype and
was decommisioned before we ever got the chance to speed things up.
Instead of steppers there are many purpose built slipping clutches and
slipping brake systems which could be incorporated, but the maximum speed is
always limited by the input. Instead of clean-braking, regeneration could
produce
a similar controlled slipping.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just checked out the speed torque curves at
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/images/pmg_132_e.pdf
Very strange indeed!
My BLDC motors produce a much wider high efficiency
range at variable loads.
One example, at 50Amps and 24Volts the efficiency is
about 88% (that's motor and control). at 25A the
efficiency is 85% and at 80A the efficiency is 80%.
This motor has a peak efficiency of 82% at 1100 RPM
and 2Amps. When you load this motor the efficiency
drops to 50% at 600RPM and 12A. Even if you look at
higher voltage operation the curve is the same. At
48V and 2300 RPM, 3A the efficiency is 85%. When you
load it to 50A at 1300RPM the efficiency is 50%.
This is one of the worst speed torque curves I've seen
for an EV (a go-cart in your case I believe).
Let's assume you're running a 48V cart with an
intermediate load of 50A. This motor will run at 50%
efficiency and my motor will run at 88% efficiency.
I would be very skeptical of the performance of this
motor in a go-cart. This motor may be acceptable for
a fan load that runs at a certain speed torque point
continuously, but will be useless for a variable
torque load on a go-cart.
FYI, my BLDC motor is used on transit busses like
Greyhound for heating/cooling, but I also installed
them on my kids go-carts;
http://www.qsl.net/w8rnh/gocart/gocart3.jpg
This is a throw-together EV just to test the motor on
a n EV. This motor has a 3" stack and made the cart
go 28MPH with acceptable acceleration. I now have a
6" stack motor in the works with twice the torque
capability that I have not installed.
Rod
--- Dmitri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You should contact PMG and ask them. But from what
> i've read on forums,
> probably 72v 300 - 400 amps max peak.
>
> BTW if you search the net for pmg-132, you will find
> it around $700-$800,
> instead of the $1000+ some are selling it at.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Blasutig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:50 PM
> Subject: planning on abusing a PMG132
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Before spending my hard earned money and frying
> one of these motors, I was
> > wondering if anyone has any experience going
> beyond the specs on this
> > motor
> > (72v 200 amp). From what I've read, these PM
> motors are quite a bit less
> > tolerant than the series motors. However, being
> used on my go kart,
> > weight
> > is something I'm trying to keep in check. My goal
> isn't to be shifter
> > kart
> > quick, but close (even if I only have enough juice
> for a few laps). And
> > I'm
> > always open to other ideas. Thanks a bunch.
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don,
I've been considering the Valence batteries for a while, but have
been away from the EV list for a while. After reading through all the
archived posts regarding a possible Valence group buy and doing the
math, I am seriously considering a pack of 27 of the 40Ah U1-12XP if we
could get the 50+ quantity price or better yet the 250 or 1000+ price
break. From the EV list posts, however, I could not tell whether anyone
has actually begun compiling a list to actually organize the group buy.
It looks like you have been dealing with Valence a fair amount. Have
you started a list?
Thanks,
Bryan Avery
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I just checked out the speed torque curves at
> http://www.robotmarketplace.com/images/pmg_132_e.pdf
> Very strange indeed!
The reason those torque curves look strange is because they, unlike many
others, have chosen to show the curve FAR BEYOND the maximum safe current
limit (steady state or short term current limits) but instead show the
characteristics all the way out to the SHORT CIRCUIT current of, for example
at 36v, all the way to 1400amps! So the curve doesn't offer much relief for
their sales and marketing staff, though the curves are entirely brutally
honest.
To fairly compare, say, to an ETEK, the published ETEK motor curves only
show the characteristics for a current range from 0-200amps or so.
If you look at the same current range on the PMG motor, you'll see a
substantially wide efficiency range.
Not so strange then, just brutally honest.
B&S failed to show in their curves (except by user-extrapolation) what the
motor's internal resistance is. In the case of the PMG curves, it's clear
what Voc and Isc are.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FWIW The Skunk is 1300 lbs 48V and a fixed ratio of about 10:1.
I get a good 35 mph and haven't pushed the batteries hard yet and have gone
15-20 miles. I expect a hard range for them will be 60-65 miles at 70-80%
DOD. The batteries are Trojan T145 lead acid. I think T105s would still
give a 35-40 mile range max.
respectfully,
John
58 Harley Servicar "The Skunk"
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/751
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Escarcega" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 7:31 AM
Subject: Battery sizing etal from a newbie
I've been through the internet FAQ files etal ad naseum :-) Sorry if this
has been repeated time and again.
I'm hell bent on converting a 3 wheel scooter from ICE to electric. Curb
weight 1100lbs.
My commute is about 6 miles round trip, all flat driving. I should be able
to recharge at work during the day.
(11 hour day) Would love to get 15 miles out of it.
48 Volt system
Delta-Q Quiq charging system
Sevcon 500A controller
Advance DC Motor nameplate rating of 36VDC Rating AU2500, model AY8-4003
3 Speed Transmission
1st gear=2.605;1
2nd gear=1.630:1
3rd gear=1.00:1
Reverse gear=3.56:1
Rear axle gear ratio=5.38:1
Would like to see 35-40mph out of it.
Any help would be greatly appreciated or links to helpful sites.
Thanks again!
Marty
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i think porsches were hot dip zinc galvanized if my memory serves correct.
Dave Cover wrote:
Tim
I'm converting a Porsche 944, and the chassis and body of this car are
galvanized. There's
virutally no rust anywhere on this 20 year old car. What's it made of? Metal is
as close as I can
get, sorry.
Dave Cover
--- Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi everyone i am doing a project on galvanization and would like to know a
few products that are galvanized and what kind of metals are used for
galvanizing. Any info on this subject would be great.
_________________________________________________________________
Not only does WindowsOff to school, going on a trip, or moving? Windows Live
(MSN) Messenger lets you stay in touch with friends and family wherever you
go. Click here to find out how to sign up! Live™ OneCare™ provide
all-in-one PC care to keep your computer protected and well-maintained, but
it also makes creating backup files a breeze. Try it today!
http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am using 20 Six volt lead acid U2400 batteries in my pack. I just took
the first long run of 26 miles to start checking to see what my range is
going to be on the EV Dakota that I am working on. When I got back home I
check the batteries to see how much they had been pulled down and I noticed
that the first battery in the pack was very warm while the other batteries
were cool to the touch. I then checked the voltages on the batteries and
found that the first battery was registering 3.4 volts while all of the
other batteries were measuring around 6.2 volts. I am concerned because I
had also noticed when I charged the pack before this trip; the first battery
was lower than all of the rest of the batteries in the pack after the
charge. I had been charging the pack on my Bycan 120 DC volt charger using
110 AC input but after everything cooled down I charged the pack using 220
AC. This seemed to build up the pack better. My question is do I have a
battery going bad, i.e. the first battery because of the heat that I noticed
and the very low voltage after my run or is this normal until you get the
pack broke in. I have read in several places that it takes 10 to 20 good
cycles to get the batteries broke in to where they need to be. I do not
mind replacing the battery if it is going bad but I do not want to replace
it unless I really need to. Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.
Also, it felt very good driving the EVDakota on the 26 mile run. I live out
in the country so I was able to encounter many different types of roads. I
encountered some hills, both up and down as well as stopping and starting.
I was able to get the truck up to around 55 to almost 60 in third gear
without any trouble. But since the roads are a little rough out here, I did
not want to get any faster than that even though the truck felt like it had
more to give. Also while it was slowing down some toward the end, it felt
like I had not reached the end of its range. I now have the vehicle
licensed and tag so it is legal to drive on the streets.
Thanks, Fred
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Martin Klingensmith wrote:
Lee,
Did you use a normal resistor or one rated for high voltage?
I have a 144v pack, and used a standard 120k 5% 1/4 watt carbon film
resistor (which are rated 250v). This provides 1.2ma of LED current, and
dissipates 0.17 watts in the resistor. The high brightness white LED I
used provides plenty of brightness even with just this 1.2ma.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Frustrating. I've been thinking of getting an ElecTrak. There are 2
for sale on Ebay right now, but both of them are "pickup only" and
are a LONG ways from here. sigh.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What happened to the electric Craftsman?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 10:22 AM
Subject: Elec-Trak mowers
> Frustrating. I've been thinking of getting an ElecTrak. There are 2
> for sale on Ebay right now, but both of them are "pickup only" and
> are a LONG ways from here. sigh.
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Guys and Gals,
It's been an interesting discussion this - what did we start?!?!
Other than the under-steering issue (which I attribute to a light
front end) I feel the El handles pretty well. It feels like it has
very little body roll and as the centre of gravity is so low (the
batteries and motor sit over and between the rear wheels) and while
it doesn't grip the road quite as well as our 2 liter Honda Prelude
it does grip.
Driving a three wheeler (with steering on a front single wheel) you
have to think less like a car driver and more like a motorbike. As
drivers of modern cars with traction control we always get into the
bad habit of braking late and perhaps keeping the brakes on as we
start a corner. Any biker will tell you that it's suicide to do that.
I used to ride bicycles a lot (sometimes up to 50 miles a day) and I
can tell you that knowing when to brake and how to approach a corner
really make a difference! It's the same in a three-wheeler. I can't
throw it about like a can a car with nice fat wheels and a meaty set
of discs to help me out. Perhaps it's because I'm used to driving
classics with drum brakes where you do most of your braking with the
engine rather than the shoes, or perhaps because I've spun a classic
on a freeway by braking on a corner but I do feel pretty safe with 3
wheels.
I've driven lots of cars which are tolerant of braking into a corner
but I've never had a drive in a 3-wheeler which likes it. The front
wheel will skip and try to keep going in the direction the rest of
the car is pushing it. I'm sure a two-wheel front, single driven
rear will have similar issues with traction. Does anyone know this?
The miniEl is probably the lowest of all 3-wheeled EVs and I think
it's pretty stable due to the battery and motor placement. It'll be
interesting to see if the lithium Ions I'm planning will affect the
handling at all. Of course, the El also has just one central seat, so
unlike the Zapp Xebra the weight really is symmetrically distributed
left to right.
In all honesty I think if you drive a 3-wheeler like a car you're
asking for trouble. Think like a biker. Brake early, and come off
the brakes before a corner and you're good. I probably start most
corners slower than a car would, but I reckon I come out faster.
Hope this all makes sense!
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
On 15 Dec 2006, at 05:58, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Where did you get the 3G lateral from? The add says 1G. I've
never even
heard of tires that could provide 3G lateral.
<http://www.vigillante.com/vigillante1.htm>
One wheel in front, and claims to do 3 lateral g, and be very
stable under
heavy breaking.
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:17:07 PM
Subject: 3 Wheelers WAS Re: [BULK] Re: A different kind of EV
video :)
.. 3 wheeler EV .. stability issues
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:55 PM
Subject: RE: [BULK] Re: A different kind of EV video :) .. 3
wheeler EV ..
stability issues
In the experiments we've done with 3 wheel bicycles, (yes, some
of them
were EV's) you definitely want the two wheels in front for
cornering.
If you are turning and braking, then a three wheeler with one
wheel in
front goes right over on it's side. I'm skeptical of all the
commercial
3-wheeler EV's out there. The steering wheels need to be in
front, a
rear steer vehicle is possible but creates some interesting
challenges.
Lawrence Lile,
Hi Lawrence, an" EVerybody;
I'll go along with Jerry Dycus as to the two wheels on a 3
wheeler
gotta
go up front!In my tour of duties in the Orient I saw a lot of 3
wheelers.
Mazdas I think, that resemble the Zap 3 wheel truck. Hidiously
overloaded
they trundled thrrough the street of Taipei and Saigon.( Gees!
That dates
me) I never saw any overturned, but they don't drive like Americans,
pushing
the limit of EVery vehicle!I saw a Zap a few months ago, asked the
guy he
said it turned over too easy, or something to that effect. it
would appear
to defy the laws of physics, like 300MPH plus Top Fuel Cars, when
you try
to
bend it around a corner? Of course it will want to roll! I don't
think
there
are ANY 3 wheel hiway worthy one- in-front cars?? Flame suit on,
tell me
IF
there are? There are 3 wheel Trikes, motorcycles, but not many cars.I
think
that with the batteries properly placed in a 3 wheeler, it will
handle
beautifully? Jerry D? The real wheel is just providing the push, not
steering. It would seem like alota work to make the REAR wheel
steer, you
would haftas use the front as a power axle, Guess it would work?
My two Wheels worth
Bob
_____________________________________________________________________
_______________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(sciam.com : U.S. power plants provide enough juice)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&articleID=7DAAAE1A-E7F2-99DF-3C7E9BECAAA68E5F
December 13, 2006 -- David Biello
Spare Power Sufficient to Fuel Switch from Gas to Electric Cars
Existing U.S. power plants could provide enough juice to switch
84 percent of the 220 million American vehicles on the road from
gasoline to electricity.
PLUG-IN POWER: Plug-in hybrids, which rely more heavily on
electric power than conventional hybrids, could easily be fueled
by the existing U.S. power infrastructure, paving the way for
lower emissions and weaning Americans from oil.
Rumors of the electric car's demise appear to have been greatly
exaggerated, with so-called plug-in hybrids making the rounds
from Los Angeles to Washington, D.C., along with the sporty, new
all-electric Tesla Roadster on offer. Now a new analysis from the
U.S. Department of Energy's Pacific Northwest National Laboratory
(PNNL) offers more good news: existing electric power plants
could fuel 84 percent of "light duty" vehicles if all 220 million
cars and trucks converted to electric power overnight. "We're
delighted to see solid third-party confirmation of what the
people who know best--the utilities--have been saying for
sometime," says Felix Kramer, plug-in hybrid owner/evangelist and
founder of Calcars.org.
The analysis noted that the capacity of the U.S. power
infrastructure is underutilized. Every evening--and during days
of low demand--there is a large amount of spare capacity that
could easily be tapped. By charging cars and trucks with
electricity at night, American drivers could reduce the nation's
dependence on foreign oil while potentially cutting power prices
as well. "Since gasoline consumption accounts for 73 percent of
imported oil, it is intriguing to think of the trade and national
security benefits if our vehicles switched from oil to
electrons," notes PNNL energy researcher Rob Pratt. "Plus, since
the utilities would be selling more electricity without having to
build more plants or power lines, electricity prices could go
down for everyone."
The researchers specifically excluded power resources such as
nuclear, hydroelectric, wind and solar as each of these already
produce electricity at maximum capacity. Yet, plugging in our
cars could reduce U.S. greenhouse gas emissions by an average of
18 percent. "Coal plants and gas plants are the marginal units
that we considered for charging the plug-in hybrid batteries,"
says PNNL staff scientist Michael Kintner-Meyer, lead author of
the forthcoming report. "Wherever you have a high dominance of
natural gas, that is where you improve on the total greenhouse
gas emissions."
Such a switch would have other pollution benefits as well,
including radically reducing the amount of asthma-inducing
particulate matter in the air of urban areas. Basically, the
source of pollution is transferred: "It is far less expensive to
capture emissions at the smokestack than the tailpipe," Pratt
adds. And the report estimates that purchasing a plug-in
hybrid--a premium of as much as $10,000--would pay for itself
within five to eight years, depending on regional electricity
prices.
"Nobody ever asks what's the payback on a sunroof," Calcar's
Kramer notes. "People are buying the environmental feature, just
like people buy leather seats or sunroofs." But consumers are not
likely to get that option on a large scale in the immediate
future. "They're still not being made and there's no immediate
prospect of them being made," he adds. "Batteries are good enough
now to put in cars and they're going to be even better by the
time we're in production." Already, initial vehicles--and their
outdated nickel batteries--have proven durable beyond 100,000
miles.
Kintner-Meyer predicts a total changeover could take as long as
25 years. In the meantime, technological improvements in things
like batteries will likely make the case for such a transition
even more persuasive. But the improvements are not only needed on
the automotive side; such a switch would probably require smart
chargers that would sense the appropriate times to refill the
car's electric tank. And the grid would need improvement, too:
"Some of the equipment is designed to cool down at night. If you
are basically running at maximum capacity for the entire
infrastructure, then you are burning the system," Kintner-Meyer
says. "There needs to be some smartness in the charger of those
plug-in hybrids that will sense emergencies in the grid and
briefly interrupt the charging." Not to mention some smartness in
deciding to go back to the future (electric cars outsold
competitors at the turn of the last century) in short order.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Ferndale, MI's hybrid parking passes running flat)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.hometownlife.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061215/NEWS/612150322/1035/NEWS18
Parking passes for 'green' cars snubbed for now
BY ERIC CZARNIK STAFF WRITER
It was supposed to be an incentive to drive green, but current
demand for Ferndale's parking passes for eco-friendlier vehicles
is running flat.
As of Monday, the city only handed out nine passes to motorists
who drive a hybrid vehicle or a vehicle that operates on 30
miles-per-gallon or greater. The passes promise free parking at
any metered area in Ferndale. Since Sept. 1, residents could get
a pass for $8, and nonresidents could get one for $25, the city's
treasury department said.
Councilman Craig Covey said he didn't know anyone who obtained a
parking pass from the city. Covey was a driving force behind the
program when the idea arose over the summer.
"I discussed it with several council members," he said. "We took
some input from citizens, (and) it went to the ordinance
committee. We studied the issues."
The ordinance passed council 4-1, with Councilman Mike Lennon
voting no.
Lennon said on Tuesday that he opposed the plan because Ferndale
relies on its parking revenue. He also said it's unfair to single
out and give advantages to one group of people over other
groups.
"A hybrid vehicle is awful expensive," he said. "I think you're
penalizing the person who can't afford (one)."
Lennon wasn't surprised to see only nine people sign up for
passes so far despite the program's earlier coverage in the
media.
"How many people are interested in that? It obviously speaks for
itself," he said.
Covey had his own reasons why the passes haven't been in demand.
He said it's still a new idea, and it's mainly beneficial for
people who park downtown on a regular basis.
He added that people might not pay for a pass that expires at the
end of the year. A treasury department staffed backed up that
theory, adding that people who are interested in the passes have
called only to decide to hold off until next year.
"It would make sense for anyone who is interested in that free
parking permit to wait until January," Covey said.
Covey, who hopes to buy a hybrid vehicle this summer, said he
doesn't think that his program is a failure.
"I'm happy that (even) one person decided to do it," he said.
Ferndale's green parking program is unique among cities in the
Woodward Corridor. Although Royal Oak is re-evaluating its
parking system, City Manager Tom Hoover said there are no
immediate plans to follow in Ferndale's footsteps.
"We haven't had any discussion on that and have no plans for
implementing anything like that," he said. "I guess we'd have to
learn more about the Ferndale program."
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(A sudden surge in London nEV sales, milk float excitement)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/consumer/caring/article.html?in_article_id=415631&in_page_id=511
The electric car that goes 40mph Ray Massey, Daily Mail
14 December 2006
One minute, the quirky electric cars are as rare as a bobby on
the beat. The next, they are as common as parking wardens - you'd
swear there was one on every corner.
In a stroll through Mayfair, 36 GWiz electric cars were spotted
in only two hours. Although they have been on the market for more
than a year, there's been a sudden surge in sales. Around 750
have been sold - and almost all of them in London.
Owners include TV presenter Jonathan Ross and Guardian editor
Alan Rusbridger. The reason for the boom is simple. The
Indian-built cars are exempt from London Mayor Ken Livingstone's
congestion charge of £8 a day, avoid road tax and are in the
cheapest insurance category.
Costing from £7,000, the cars have a range of about 40 miles per
charge - though you will knock off ten miles if you put on the
heater. Top speed is 42mph.
Fuel efficiency is immense - the equivalent of up to 600 miles to
the gallon, depending on conditions.
The rear-wheel drive is powered by electric motors supplied on
the road by eight six-volt lead acid batteries. They take eight
hours to recharge from a mains socket.
This is fine if you have a garage, but difficult if you live in
many urban areas of London where cars are left in the street. And
there's another downside - they have all the excitement of a milk
float.
The G-Wiz will get you a free parking permit in Richmond, South
West London, where council bosses are cracking down on 4x4s.
Charging it overnight adds around 30p to your electricity bill,
giving a fuel cost of under 1p a mile compared to around 15p for
the average petrol car.
But there are only two on-street chargers in Westminster. So you
need off-street parking to juice it up.
And there is a sting in the tail - electric cars need new
batteries every three years or so, at a cost of around £1,200.
Although they produce no pollutants, using mains power means CO2
emissions, although lower, are instead produced at the power
station.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(%GEM nEVs need a larger fuel gauge to know when to charge%)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/city/parkcities/stories/DN-pcfocus_14met.ART.North.Edition1.3e51f07.html
UP's electric vehicle to patrol Snider Plaza
08:43 AM CST on Thursday, December 14, 2006 JIM MAHONEY/DMN
By SUSAN McALLISTER / Special Contributor to The Dallas Morning
News
It looks like a cross between a golf cart and an all-terrain
vehicle with a balloon-shaped windshield. It's something you'd
expect to see on the streets of Munich or Paris.
[image
http://dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/v3/12-14-2006.NMC_14pcfocus.GO221QQJP.1.jpg
]
Stanley Burkman, a public service officer with the University
Park Police Department, takes the department's new global
electric vehicle for a spin in Snider Plaza, where it will be
used for parking enforcement. The battery-powered GEM is silent
and has no tailpipe emissions. But the city of University Park
thinks this strange-looking little vehicle is the ticket to more
effective parking enforcement.
Beginning in January, a global electric vehicle, known as a GEM,
will begin its work with an additional parking enforcement
officer, focusing on Snider Plaza.
"We're adding a second parking enforcement officer to patrol
Snider Plaza, and we needed something for him to drive," said
University Park Police Chief Gary Adams. "This is a very busy
shopping area where parking is always an issue."
Chief Adams likes that the vehicle is small, so it won't block
traffic lanes.
Merchant complaints about people violating the two-hour parking
limit in the area prompted the increase in patrols.
Elisabeth Williams, manager at Kuby's Delicatessen, said: "Some
people park here all day long. Some people have to park three or
four blocks away. It's a good thing they're going to enforce
more."
The GEM was selected primarily because the city wanted to find an
alternative-fuel vehicle that would let an officer drive to and
from the areas to be patrolled, Chief Adams said. It also needed
to be reliable and street-legal, unlike a golf cart.
GEMs are produced by Global Electric Motorcars, a subsidiary of
DaimlerChrysler. Street-legal in at least 40 states, including
Texas, they run entirely on batteries, which means there are no
tailpipe emissions. According to the manufacturer's Web site,
they are used in master-planned communities and city centers and
on military bases and college campuses for short commutes and
parking enforcement.
University Park's model, an E2, has a top speed of 25 mph and a
range of 35 miles per charge. It can be fully charged overnight
and ready to go the next day.
And the downside? "We learned the hard way that you have to
charge it properly or else it runs out of power. You can't just
put gas in it and keep going," Chief Adams said.
Another benefit: It is almost silent.
"We're thinking about using it during special events, like the
Fourth of July parade, or in parks," he said. "It's an
awkward-looking little vehicle. Most regular police officers
don't want to get in it yet, but it could be used after-hours in
parking lots. ... It's very quiet, and that element of surprise
could be used in crime prevention."
The Electric Drive Transportation Association, an industry
research, education and lobbying group, states on its Web site
that neighborhood electric vehicles, or NEVs, are being used
nationwide in a variety of applications. California has the
largest number of NEVs, with 15,000 on the road.
The New York Power Authority had placed 350 NEVs in service
around the state as of October, according to its Web site. Cities
such as Las Vegas are also using them in parking enforcement.
Susan McAllister is a freelance writer in Dallas. © 2006 The
Dallas Morning News Co.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, what I meant is small (~1 hp) auxiliary motor working directly
off main pack already integrated with the pump. There is no
need for pulleys or any linking to the traction motor at all.
Sorry, the photo is not uploaded yet.
Victor
Dave Cover wrote:
Will you offer any coupling opions? The easy way would be to use a belt and
pulley, but I'd prefer
to find some kind of flexible coupler for more of a direct drive configuration.
If you offered one
side of a Lovejoy coupler, the user would just need to match their half to
their pump.
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'll be offering a self-contained unit meant for EV power steering.
Just need to update web site and settle with manufacturer. Wait
a couple of weeks if you can, at least it will be one off-shelf choice
to consider.
Victor
Dave Cover wrote:
Thanks for the info. I have a PM motor from a treadmill that I'd like to use,
but haven't had
any
luck on the controller side. I'll give KB a look.
--- End Message ---
