EV Digest 6219
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: FW: Newbie - NiMH vs VRLA pack choice
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Power Steering (was 88 Jetta power steering stuff??)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: planning on abusing a PMG132
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Roderick Wilde and his electric Rx7 drag a Dodge Viper at Woodburn
1999 on YouTube.
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: I need to find someone to ship my EV from Provo, UT to Atlanta, GA
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Battery Question
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Elec-Trak mowers
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Adjustable battery racks
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Battery Question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) The Electric Unicycle
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: planning on abusing a PMG132
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Elec-Trak mowers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Roderick Wilde and his electric Rx7 drag a Dodge Viper at Woodburn
1999 on YouTube.
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: The Electric Unicycle
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Thundersky BMS?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) A123 EV pack (was Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy)
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: planning on abusing a PMG132
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) EVLN(G-Wiz AC nEV: 45mph, 48 mi range, costs the same)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: planning on abusing a PMG132
by "Robert Blasutig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) ADC Motor Mounting
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) AC drive prices going down with AC G-wiz?
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Controller on Trolley Transit Buses
by Jim Dempsey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: [BULK] RE: If I only need a 5 mile range ... really
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Thundersky BMS?
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Battery Question
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
There are quite a few OEM EVs that use to (EV1) and still do
use (few Rangers and some RAV4) NiMH, either GM Ovonic, Cobasys or
Panasonic ones. I currently use salvaged Ovonic 85Ah NiMH in ACRX.
Yes, unfortunately these batteries not available off shelf (or
in any other way, I wish...), but there are far more vehicles equipped
with them on the road today than 3, and it is no longer "field testing"
(unless you're specifically talking about D or F size only, or about
Ed's BMS for them).
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Jack Murray wrote:
Having 3 EVs using them as part of your unobtainium test program is not
what I would call "using" them. It is called "product field testing".
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No what I meant is small auxiliary motor (working directly
off main pack already integrated with the pump. There is no
need for pulleys or any linking to the traction motor at all.
Sorry, the photo is not uploaded yet.
Victor
Dave Cover wrote:
Will you offer any coupling opions? The easy way would be to use a belt and
pulley, but I'd prefer
to find some kind of flexible coupler for more of a direct drive configuration.
If you offered one
side of a Lovejoy coupler, the user would just need to match their half to
their pump.
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'll be offering a self-contained unit meant for EV power steering.
Just need to update web site and settle with manufacturer. Wait
a couple of weeks if you can, at least it will be one off-shelf choice
to consider.
Victor
Dave Cover wrote:
Thanks for the info. I have a PM motor from a treadmill that I'd like to use,
but haven't had
any
luck on the controller side. I'll give KB a look.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I just checked out the speed torque curves at
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/images/pmg_132_e.pdf
Very strange indeed!
Yes, so strange that they can't possibly be right. The PMG 132 performance
is between the Etek and an original Lemco or the Agni Motor
(http://www.agnimotors.com/home/) that Cedric himself is producing.
The curves for the motor at; http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/perm_specs.htm
are much more what I'd expect.
Going back to the original question, the mass of the armature is very low,
so its thermal mass is also low and it will heat up very fast. However if
geared correctly and you recognise that avaerage acceleration is down to the
area under the torque curve, then the motor is ideally suited to a Kart.
The BVS have held several events at
http://www.teamworkskarting.com/birmingham/ where they have a fleet of Etek
powered machines. Top speed at 48 volt is about 40mph, comparable to the ICE
equivilent, but with far superior acceleration and control. They can and do
run endurance events with a driver doing 5 laps then coming in to swap to
another Kart which has been on a 100amp charge via an Zivan NG-7.
Paul Compton
www.evguru.co.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.bvs.org.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick Wilde and his electric Rx7 drag a Dodge Viper at Woodburn 1999
Woodburn Oregon 1999.
Some of the high lights I took are now posted on YouTube.
Danny Ames.
To see who wins just go here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G32E4li3xHI
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I decided to use www.autotransportdirect.com. I hope I actually get the car
here some day in one piece ... But, that was all I could afford to pay so I'm
taking my chances. Let's see how well it works out.
Steve
Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Any suggestions?
Anyone know who e-volks uses and if the are any good? That are also in the
Provo area. I've had nothing but bad experiences with everyone that I have done
business with in the past.
Thanks,
Steve
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm sure you will get answers from folks with more experience, but I would be
inclined to charge the offending battery by itself to try to get it to the
level of the others.
----- Original Message ----
From: Fred Hartsell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 10:11:55 PM
Subject: Battery Question
I am using 20 Six volt lead acid U2400 batteries in my pack. I just took
the first long run of 26 miles to start checking to see what my range is
going to be on the EV Dakota that I am working on. When I got back home I
check the batteries to see how much they had been pulled down and I noticed
that the first battery in the pack was very warm while the other batteries
were cool to the touch. I then checked the voltages on the batteries and
found that the first battery was registering 3.4 volts while all of the
other batteries were measuring around 6.2 volts. I am concerned because I
had also noticed when I charged the pack before this trip; the first battery
was lower than all of the rest of the batteries in the pack after the
charge. I had been charging the pack on my Bycan 120 DC volt charger using
110 AC input but after everything cooled down I charged the pack using 220
AC. This seemed to build up the pack better. My question is do I have a
battery going bad, i.e. the first battery because of the heat that I noticed
and the very low voltage after my run or is this normal until you get the
pack broke in. I have read in several places that it takes 10 to 20 good
cycles to get the batteries broke in to where they need to be. I do not
mind replacing the battery if it is going bad but I do not want to replace
it unless I really need to. Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.
Also, it felt very good driving the EVDakota on the 26 mile run. I live out
in the country so I was able to encounter many different types of roads. I
encountered some hills, both up and down as well as stopping and starting.
I was able to get the truck up to around 55 to almost 60 in third gear
without any trouble. But since the roads are a little rough out here, I did
not want to get any faster than that even though the truck felt like it had
more to give. Also while it was slowing down some toward the end, it felt
like I had not reached the end of its range. I now have the vehicle
licensed and tag so it is legal to drive on the streets.
Thanks, Fred
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:46 PM 12/15/2006, Joe Smalley wrote:
What happened to the electric Craftsman?
It was in my shop when the shop burned.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Amen to that. A lot too big is better than a hair too small!
----- Original Message ----
From: Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 12:41:26 AM
Subject: Re: Adjustable battery racks
Make a rack that fits the larger batteries and use spacers with the small
batteries.
> I was planning on using optimas in my conversion for performance but for
> economy and range i would like to use wet cells. These batteries are not
> the
> exact same size and i was wondering if anyone knew how or where i could
> buy
> or make an adjustable battery rack that will still be strong.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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> Telus
> Mobility is giving away an Microsoft Xbox® 360 every day from November 20
> to
> December 31, 2006! Just download Windows Live (MSN) Messenger to your
> IM-capable TELUS mobile phone, and you could be a winner!
> http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Fred,
Try to charge that one battery to match the others, and test again. You may
have to do this several times. Its either a grid shorting through the
separators or cell block is crack. Sometimes the grid shorting cause by
oxide particles may break loose and the voltage may return to normal.
If no results than return the battery for a new one. When I order a set of
batteries, I specific that are a match set, in voltage, load, specific
gravity and date of manufacturer. Many times I have to do this testing my
self because many battery manufacturers will not do this testing, except for
voltage that may be accepted if even its a 5 percent differential.
So I contract with a local dealer, that I will order 50 batteries of which I
only need 30 of. I than do the testing and try to match the best 30
batteries that I need.
Four of the batteries then not come up to specs which each battery must be
in with 0.01 volt of each other after several load test and one was over
1.01 volt less then the others.
Instead of load testing each battery for 145 minutes at 75 amps which the
battery are rated at, I do this load testing in the EV while driving it for
30 minutes at 75 amps or use 52 ah out of a 260 ah battery which is about
80% SOS or 20% DOD.
This is the also the break in period, where you should drive short distances
at light loads. Every 5 miles on new batteries, either check the voltage of
each battery and/or specific gravity and chart this out. It will show a
curve, which will predict your range and life of battery.
Also, check the torque of each battery connection after the first 5 miles.
You will find you will lose about 5 inch. lbs. after each run, until the
shrink back is reduce.
After you have run the EV for about a month and one battery shows up with a
lower voltage than the others, replace it with one of the other batteries
with the same manufacture date.
A pallet load of batteries normally come in a pack of 50, so you can have
them deliver right to you by the distributor battery truck. You can then
send the rest to the local dealer who uses this type of battery. Label the
battery that is bad and label all the other batteries, so the dealer can
sell them in a match set.
I take about 6 months or more to break in my batteries, because my distance
is only 5 to 10 miles a day at a average of 40 battery amp. I am now at 5
years on my battery pack and plan to go another 5 years and 2 months which
is 2012 on Jan 4 to break my old record.
Roland
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Fred Hartsell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 10:11:55 PM
> Subject: Battery Question
>
> I am using 20 Six volt lead acid U2400 batteries in my pack. I just took
> the first long run of 26 miles to start checking to see what my range is
> going to be on the EV Dakota that I am working on. When I got back home I
> check the batteries to see how much they had been pulled down and I
> noticed
> that the first battery in the pack was very warm while the other batteries
> were cool to the touch. I then checked the voltages on the batteries and
> found that the first battery was registering 3.4 volts while all of the
> other batteries were measuring around 6.2 volts. I am concerned because I
> had also noticed when I charged the pack before this trip; the first
> battery
> was lower than all of the rest of the batteries in the pack after the
> charge. I had been charging the pack on my Bycan 120 DC volt charger
> using
> 110 AC input but after everything cooled down I charged the pack using 220
> AC. This seemed to build up the pack better. My question is do I have a
> battery going bad, i.e. the first battery because of the heat that I
> noticed
> and the very low voltage after my run or is this normal until you get the
> pack broke in. I have read in several places that it takes 10 to 20 good
> cycles to get the batteries broke in to where they need to be. I do not
> mind replacing the battery if it is going bad but I do not want to replace
> it unless I really need to. Any and all advice will be greatly
> appreciated.
>
>
>
> Also, it felt very good driving the EVDakota on the 26 mile run. I live
> out
> in the country so I was able to encounter many different types of roads.
> I
> encountered some hills, both up and down as well as stopping and starting.
> I was able to get the truck up to around 55 to almost 60 in third gear
> without any trouble. But since the roads are a little rough out here, I
> did
> not want to get any faster than that even though the truck felt like it
> had
> more to give. Also while it was slowing down some toward the end, it felt
> like I had not reached the end of its range. I now have the vehicle
> licensed and tag so it is legal to drive on the streets.
>
>
>
> Thanks, Fred
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
just curious, what are these prices/price breaks?
(<50: around $1000 per 12 v, I assume)
50+ :
250+ :
1000+ :
not that I even think I'm interested, but am curious.
also, thinking out loud about the math of Valence's comparison:
I'm looking at their 'cost of ownership' math, which gives Li the
following advantage:
Li at 3.3 (units?) vs PbA's 7.5 . (see http://www.valence.com/ucharge.asp)
They use 12 volt, 27.2 Ah figure for PbA (C/5)
- ok, maybe some kind of AGM; 300 cycles per agm vs. 2000 for Li -
so with AGM's maybe around $125 - $150 per 12 volts,
a 144 volt pack figure is $1500-$1800,
Li pack is $12,000;
then, 6 2/3 pack changes of $1500-$1800 batteries = $9900 - $11,988
$12,000/$9900 = 1.21
Now their Li also have more energy per 12 volt: 584 Whr vs. 326 Whr,
and weigh just 7 kg vs. 11 kg of PbA
(though my simple economics comparison really don't factor in overall
weight and performance,
and of course the coolness factor of being the first on your block to have a
Li car
(or to burn your garage and house down while trying to charge such, I heard
one guy charging them started a small fire doing such - ok, this is how
rumors get started, but they had Valence in one of the Myers Motors Sparrows
and the engineer driving it around said he could have burned his garage down
once from some funny stuff going on during charging, once anyway;
on the other hand, they were so light they had to add some steel bars to the
vehicle just so it wouldn't bounce around ,with Li batteries in it). I
haven't heard of any vehicle fires from Valence's batteries, so perhaps
that was nonrepeatable event
A possibly old spec sheet from Valence I have has the U1-12FN40, 40 Ah
battery listed as
150 Amp max 30 sec pulse discharge current
100 Amp continuous discharge current
so then, for a converted but lightweight vehicle, say you get it to 2500
lbs. total using lightweight
Li battery pack (though I don't calculate weight in here anyway*), to get
say 20hp of performance, you then need 15kW, so that at 100 amps max
cruising current draw, you need 15 Li batteries - $15,000 ??
Thanks for any corrections, data, or experience or ideas anyone has.
* hey, it's Sat. a.m. and my brain is officially on 'off' (except to play
out the Sat. chess column in the paper and maybe to look up some
microcontrollers to add as a hack to the Robosapien robot that is in the
mail for Christmas (otherwise, I try to be pretty nongeeky on weekends
anyway) )
Thanks,
Seth Myers
Compare to flooded PbA and the math, price and cycles are radically
different. So, with some of that savings, throw in a round or two of
ultracaps
for some extra current ... (ok, until I get one of those done, I'll stop
talking about it)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
Don,
I've been considering the Valence batteries for a while, but have been
away from the EV list for a while. After reading through all the archived
posts regarding a possible Valence group buy and doing the math, I am
seriously considering a pack of 27 of the 40Ah U1-12XP if we could get the
50+ quantity price or better yet the 250 or 1000+ price break. From the
EV list posts, however, I could not tell whether anyone has actually begun
compiling a list to actually organize the group buy. It looks like you
have been dealing with Valence a fair amount. Have you started a list?
Thanks,
Bryan Avery
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://tlb.org/eunicycle.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul Compton offered:
> >I just checked out the speed torque curves at
> > http://www.robotmarketplace.com/images/pmg_132_e.pdf
> > Very strange indeed!
>
> Yes, so strange that they can't possibly be right. The PMG 132
> performance is between the Etek and an original Lemco or the Agni Motor
> (http://www.agnimotors.com/home/) that Cedric himself is producing.
> The curves for the motor at;
> http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/perm_specs.htm
> are much more what I'd expect.
Wrong. BOTH are correct!
BOTH chart pages show voltage, torque, power and efficiency versus current.
Once again, the difference is that the curves on the pmg_132_3.pdf file page
show these characteristics from ZERO to the 1400+amp theoretical SHORT
CIRCUIT CURRENT (Isc), while the curves on the Thunderstruck site show only
for current from 0 to 200amps.
Clearly, if you extrapolated the Thunderstruck curves out 7-times further to
700amps, you'd see the efficiency drop to 50% and at 1400amps, go to zero
also.
I appreciate seeing the full range, though except for the easy computation
of internal resistance from Isc and Voc, 80% of the curves aren't any use.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
Frustrating. I've been thinking of getting an ElecTrak. There are 2
for sale on Ebay right now, but both of them are "pickup only" and are a
LONG ways from here. sigh.
They aren't *that* big or heavy. They could be shipped, especially less
batteries (which are probably shot anyway). I would think you could find
someone local to the seller who would, for a price, pack and ship it for
you.
There have been cases where I sent a seller a box, he put the device in
the box, and I had the shipper pick it up at his doorstep. Maybe the
seller would do this for you? With an Electrak, he should be able to
drive it onto a pallet or into a crate, tie it down, and off it goes!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Danny,
PS: I see a typo on the tags, you wrote maza instead of mazda. Thanks
again for putting these up!
Roderick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Ames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV SEND MSG" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 1:03 AM
Subject: Roderick Wilde and his electric Rx7 drag a Dodge Viper at Woodburn
1999 on YouTube.
Roderick Wilde and his electric Rx7 drag a Dodge Viper at Woodburn 1999
Woodburn Oregon 1999.
Some of the high lights I took are now posted on YouTube.
Danny Ames.
To see who wins just go here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G32E4li3xHI
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12/15/2006
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know why, but as stupid as I think the Segway is, /this/ I like!
I might just have to build me one.
> http://tlb.org/eunicycle.html
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul Compton posted a link to Cedric Lynch's enterprise, Agnimotor. This
may be old news, and if so I apologise; but I was nosing around that website
and ran across this page :
http://agnimotors.com/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemi
d=39
http://tinyurl.com/yyw3n8
Not exactly a turnkey solution, but it might be of some use to those
contemplating a lithium future for their EVs.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Bryan,
if you are not in a hurry, you may want to consider A123s. This is a
respond I got from them:
"We're working on several standard modules that potentially may be
applicable; however I can't project their availability at this point.
I believe there is a good opportunity that either A123, or one of our
partners, will have a pack suitable for use in EVs sometime in 2007.
Sorry I can't be more specific. I think we'll be in a better position
to forecast new products in the next few months."
But of course there is always the Great New Battery just around the
corner..
Terveisin, Osmo
Bryan kirjoitti 16.12.2006 kello 2.01:
Don,
I've been considering the Valence batteries for a while, but
have been away from the EV list for a while. After reading through
all the archived posts regarding a possible Valence group buy and
doing the math, I am seriously considering a pack of 27 of the 40Ah
U1-12XP if we could get the 50+ quantity price or better yet the
250 or 1000+ price break. From the EV list posts, however, I could
not tell whether anyone has actually begun compiling a list to
actually organize the group buy. It looks like you have been
dealing with Valence a fair amount. Have you started a list?
Thanks,
Bryan Avery
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wrong. BOTH are correct!
BOTH chart pages show voltage, torque, power and efficiency versus
current.
No, the robot-market place site plots efficiency, torque, and current
against rpm.
Paul Compton
www.evguru.co.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.bvs.org.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(G-Wiz AC nEV: 45mph, 48 mi range, costs the same)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.easier.com/view/News/Motoring/article-89295.html
New, improved performance G-Wiz AC hits the streets
14 December 2006
The first of the new, improved performance G-Wiz AC drive
electric cars from GoinGreen have arrived and will be on Londons
roads by mid-December. Launched at the British Motor Show in the
summer, the G-Wiz AC replaces the current G-Wiz DC - and costs
the same, at £8,299 inc VAT - but offers many enhanced and
exclusive features including a class-leading increased top speed
of 45mph and a range of up to 48 miles.
GoinGreen created the electric car market in the UK by
introducing the emission free G-Wiz DC drive to London in 2004
and it is still the only electric 2+2 seater available. There are
now over 750 G-Wiz customers, including 150 of those who have
already ordered the new G-Wiz AC, making London the electric car
capital of the world and the G-Wiz a familiar sight in the West
End.
A unique feature of the new G-Wiz AC is the fact that it is
upgradeable to high-performance lithium ion (li-ion) batteries
when they become available next year. Li-ion batteries have a
longer life than lead acid batteries and will also increase the
cars performance in terms of acceleration, speed, range and
re-charge time. Also exclusive to the G-Wiz is a hill-holding
restraint feature, making it easier to hold the car on slopes.
Other features of the new G-Wiz include 40% increase in mid-range
torque resulting in better acceleration and hill climbing
ability, a booster mode for short-term acceleration/power, a
maintenance-free brushless motor providing a smoother, quieter
operation, improved regenerative braking, an anti-roll bar for
better handling at higher speeds and an advanced IPC (Instrument
Panel Cluster) with an electronic speedometer, a trip odometer
and an automatic computer-controlled indicator for power
consumption and regeneration.
Another bonus is that the standard body panels are now colour
impregnated, without the use of paint, which makes them 100%
recyclable and minor scratches are easily buffed up without the
need for spraying.
The G-Wiz DC drive is still available from GoinGreen, now as an
entry-level model starting at £6,999 inc VAT but with fewer
features than the original DC car, representing the lowest total
cost motoring available in the UK.
Manufactured by Indo-US joint venture the Reva Electric Car
Company, the G-Wiz is available exclusively from GoinGreen in the
UK. The G-Wiz is exempt from road tax and the London congestion
charge and enjoys free parking and charging in central London,
including two on-street charging points in Covent Garden, with
other parking benefits throughout the city - a package worth over
£8,000 per year.
The G-Wiz is sold via GoinGreens website
[ http://goingreen.co.uk ], where customers in London can book
test drives online. The company has a team of engineers based at
its headquarters for full after sales maintenance and support
and it also offers time-poor Londoners mobile servicing.
GoinGreen is a founder member of the All-Electric Transport
Alliance, a trade organisation formed to create awareness of
the urgent need to switch to emission free motoring.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the info guys. I'm just learning about this stuff and all
the info is useful. It has been confusing that practically every
chart I have looked at represents the data a different way.
My goal might seem a little ambitious, I'm trying to achieve the same
performance as my racing kart did, it put out about 26hp. The 125cc
shifter karts are putting out about 42hp. To achieve the power of my
100cc, I'm calculating that 96v 200amp would do it, but with the 2
stroke peak torque matched all the time. Then, not sure how theory
translates into reality. The shifter kart could be matched at 108v
300amp. Not outrageous from what I've seen some of the series motors
put through, but maybe more than this motor can handle.
I've emailed perm motor, we'll see what they have to say. I've also
looked at some of their liquid cooled ac motors, one of which actually
puts out over 31kw. I'm now wondering if I can use the radiators of
the existing water cooled kart engines.
I know that an ADC 6.7" with a Zilla controller or dual PMG could do
this fairly easily. But nothing is impossible when spending enough.
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--- Begin Message ---
Can an 8" ADC motor be attached to a transmission using just the 4 bolts
on the face of the output side housing?
Or does the steel body of the motor need to be connected to the
transmission to handle the torque?
Jack
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--- Begin Message ---
I just read that the G-Wiz is coming with an AC powered version. Could
that mean higher avaliability of AC conversion parts in the near future?
Down here I cannot get a DC motor, but AC motors are plentiful. Do
I have any hope? :) Any AC conversion howto?
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | Freedom's just another word
http://e.nn.cl | for nothing left to lose.
|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Your answer: Depends on the trolley.
Here in Seattle, Metro King County currently runs three different flavors of
trolley; the old-style DC, the new-fangled DC, and the retrofitted AC Bredas.
I think the old style use enormous SCR controllers. The slow the old
locomotive method, by giving some power from the overhead wire in reverse to
the motor. The newer DC use more advanced drives, as they can decelerate
regeneratively, feeding power back up the line.
The Bredas originally drove electrically only in the now closed bus tunnel, so
they used AC drives. Water (such as from Seattle rain) has poor side effects
with ac (surface effect?). Rather than retrofit the trolley fleet, Metro now
feeds these beasts dc. They slow by shunting the motor power to a three-stage
resistive load on the roof, heating the world. I guess newer AC locomotives
now do the same thing, mostly to save fuel.
The Breda system, though, was designed on the cheap and had near disastrous
consequences when they ran the busses out of the tunnel, but that's another
story.
In a short answer to your question, all these different controllers are
enormous, driving up to 33 ton vehicles (empty). Furthermore, they are
designed to pull up to 600 amps from 300+ volt lines . . . even then, the
Bredas are too huge to service routes with severe hills, such as up Capital or
Queen Anne hills. They just pop the breakers and stop all service.
You would need to carry a trailer full of batteries just to feed these beasts
without a wire.
Sorry for the rambling answer.
Jim
EMB Lectra #66
Now a Bus Driver
----- Original Message ----
From: Bruce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 5, 2006 10:17:22 PM
Subject: Controller on Trolley Transit Buses
Does anyone know anything about how the speed is controlled on an electric
transit bus? Do they use resistors or do they use SCR or MOSFET
controllers? How about electric locomotives? What kind of controller do
they use?
Might it be possible to use a surplus bus or train controller in an EV and
get more amps than a 'Zilla?
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--- Begin Message ---
On Dec 15, 2006, at 9:13 AM, Lawrence Lile wrote:
Hop on a bike! If it's too steep, build an electric bike! Or Walk!
I'd
recommend a couple of rechargeable batteries for your walkman, you'll
save a bundle. <grin>
:-) But that is not what he asked for. I'm not sure why he wants a car
to make a 2 mile commute (one way), but he does. I'll give him the
benefit of any doubt and be confident there is a reason (like not
getting to work wet when it rains.)
A 5 mile EV is real easy. I would suggest 8 Optima YT batteries for a
96v system (if the EV is currently 120 volts you may need to stay there
to keep a DC to DC converter or other equipment happy.) The used
batteries should work, but I recommend getting quite a few more than
you need. Used batteries can be "good", but not play along well
together (or they can be bad.) Their charge efficiency and self
discharge rate can drift apart depending on how they where used,
especially if they where not all used together. It can make charging a
real pain (Rudman Regs with external loads sized pain.)
Normally with AGM batteries I would suggest regulators (not that I use
them, but I have to monitor each charge because I don't.) With a small
pack of Optimas and a short range you can charge gently. A taper
charger and some Lee Hart zener/light bulb regs should handle it quite
well. A cheap taper charger can be as simple as a bridge rectifier on a
heat sink and a variac to adjust the input voltage (a few other parts
to make it safer should be added.) You could also use a "little
blinking charger" (Cliplight 5A charger) for each battery. Optimas seem
to like that charger. Chargers for flooded batteries are generally a
bad choice for AGMs, unless you can adjust the voltage and current.
8 Optimas should actually have a range more like 10 miles. But AGMs can
last a long time if they are not regularly discharged below 50%. It
seems to be a good fit - one of those cases where AGM will prove
superior on more than just the good clean fun factor.
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
Paul
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
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--- Begin Message ---
I think Peter Perkins is using these in his Solar Electric Van.
terveisin Osmo
David Roden kirjoitti 16.12.2006 kello 21.12:
Paul Compton posted a link to Cedric Lynch's enterprise,
Agnimotor. This
may be old news, and if so I apologise; but I was nosing around
that website
and ran across this page :
http://agnimotors.com/home/index.php?
option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemi
d=39
http://tinyurl.com/yyw3n8
Not exactly a turnkey solution, but it might be of some use to those
contemplating a lithium future for their EVs.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Storm,
Sorry to bring bad news, but this battery acts the same
as I have seen several of my batteries after I took a long
drive with unbalanced batteries.
It has a cell reversal.
The warm-to-the-touch while the others were cold speaks for itself.
You will need to replace that one battery.
If you charge it separately, it will come up to 6V fine, but under
load it will soon fall back to below 4V, the additional current
that you pumped back into the bad cell is soon gone.
I am currently trying if I can get my bad batteries back
to normal duty by keeping them on a long float charge,
another EV'er noticed that after 3/4 year on float, his
stinker was acting better. I have not heard how good, but since
I cannot lose (well, only a couple kWh and some garage space) I
am currently keeping my bad batteries at 13.8V constant.
(I have 12V 110Ah AGM batteries)
After an initial few hours of full-current charging, they are now
going back to trickle charge:
second day they were registering about 200mA each
third day around 150mA
fourth day 100mA
5th day 80 mA
6th day 60 mA
today they are approaching 40mA per battery.
I am wondering if I should try and dis-charge them
from time to time.
Anyway - I installed new batteries for the stinkers
and the truck is running fine without power drop.
I am also installing a BMS to make sure they stay in balance.
A lot of work, the worst part is pulling all batteries out
and even worse is that I had a design error that I discovered
after putting 1/2 back in, so they need to come out before
I connect the control.
It costs less than $100 in (Ebay) parts, with a power FET on
every battery's + post, which allow it to drain 1/2 Amp (7W)
without overheating and without a large heatsink.
This bypassing (shunting or regulating) is done as soon as
the battery voltage climbs to 13.7V. I can still equalize
the battery cells at higher voltage by applying more current
than the regs use, it is more to gradually bring them in balance.
It also gives me a low voltage warning light when any
battery goes below 10.5V to avoid reversing any.
There is some additional functionality to make battery
charging follow the regs (first battery hit 13.7V and all
batteries are over 13.7V) and all that for less than 20
components per battery.
I'll publish the schematic as soon as I see it work at my pack.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Storm Connors
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 6:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Battery Question
I'm sure you will get answers from folks with more experience, but I would
be inclined to charge the offending battery by itself to try to get it to
the level of the others.
----- Original Message ----
From: Fred Hartsell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 10:11:55 PM
Subject: Battery Question
I am using 20 Six volt lead acid U2400 batteries in my pack. I just took
the first long run of 26 miles to start checking to see what my range is
going to be on the EV Dakota that I am working on. When I got back home I
check the batteries to see how much they had been pulled down and I noticed
that the first battery in the pack was very warm while the other batteries
were cool to the touch. I then checked the voltages on the batteries and
found that the first battery was registering 3.4 volts while all of the
other batteries were measuring around 6.2 volts. I am concerned because I
had also noticed when I charged the pack before this trip; the first battery
was lower than all of the rest of the batteries in the pack after the
charge. I had been charging the pack on my Bycan 120 DC volt charger using
110 AC input but after everything cooled down I charged the pack using 220
AC. This seemed to build up the pack better. My question is do I have a
battery going bad, i.e. the first battery because of the heat that I noticed
and the very low voltage after my run or is this normal until you get the
pack broke in. I have read in several places that it takes 10 to 20 good
cycles to get the batteries broke in to where they need to be. I do not
mind replacing the battery if it is going bad but I do not want to replace
it unless I really need to. Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.
Also, it felt very good driving the EVDakota on the 26 mile run. I live out
in the country so I was able to encounter many different types of roads. I
encountered some hills, both up and down as well as stopping and starting.
I was able to get the truck up to around 55 to almost 60 in third gear
without any trouble. But since the roads are a little rough out here, I did
not want to get any faster than that even though the truck felt like it had
more to give. Also while it was slowing down some toward the end, it felt
like I had not reached the end of its range. I now have the vehicle
licensed and tag so it is legal to drive on the streets.
Thanks, Fred
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