EV Digest 6226
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Battery Advice PLEASE
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Used Batteries WAS Re: [BULK] RE: If I only need a 5 mile range
... rea...
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity...
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity...
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) KillaCycle Schedule for 2007 (was: A123 EV pack (was Re:
Lithium-ion batteries & Valence )
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Battery Advice PLEASE
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: KillaCycle Schedule for 2007 (was: A123 EV pack (was Re: Lithium-ion
batteries & Valence )
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Sagging vs. discharge and cell reversal
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Link-10 woes
by Jake Oshins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) First electric car backtoback road test of this century ?
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) A little bit OT: Dashboard gauge needle / pointer
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Zener regs revisited
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Zap Xebra
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Link-10 woes
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Sagging vs. discharge and cell reversal
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: A little bit OT: Dashboard gauge needle / pointer
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Zap Xebra
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: First electric car backtoback road test of this century ?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The sole reason I didn't go with the Zivan charger is because the guy told me
flat out that he would not honor his warranty if I
used PowerCheqs (or Rudmans) said the charger would handle the balancing.
However after killing a couple of the Deka
Intimidators I've determined the PowerCheqs do not work really well either on
100AH batteries. They may be more suited to 55aH
batteries but not these. I found as Lee Harts has stated that they shuttle
around 2aH per charge. Not good enough when some get
to be 3-5 aH out. chasing the stinkers with a 12V charger was getting to be
not fun anymore. No one would know the story though
since the list will not seem to let me post anything anymore. Very rarely a
reply will get through. I will be surprised if this
does. Long story short "saved 12 of my 16 deka 9A31's and swapped in 20 Crown
CR-225's for a 120V pack. Truck is slower now
(mild EVen), but it makes my 25 mile commute with heat and lights in the wind
and snow" The 12 good Intimidators will go into the
Pinto project for starters.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Mike Chancey
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 4:28 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Battery Advice PLEASE
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Well, the guys at C&D Battery has finally rendered a verdict on my
> Dynasty DCS-100L batteries. After first diagnosing the problem as
> sulfated plates due to chronic under charging, they said:
>
> Based on the provided charging and teardown evaluation, we conclude
> that the batteries had been over charged at to high of voltage which
> shortened their service life. The charging profile and descriptive
> comments state the batteries were charged at voltages that averaged
> at shutoff equal to 15.32 volts per unit or 2.55 v/c. We recommend
> the recharge voltage be limited to 14.8 volts per unit or 2.47 v/c.
>
> Batteries were overcharged/overheated No Credit Due
>
> So much for a warranty and so much for me trying to do things the
> right way. I was told, "Buy a really good charger and protect your
> battery investment." Well, in 1999 the best charger I could afford
> was a Zivan NG-5 with temp sensor for compensation. For years I kept
> making excuses to keep running old used batteries, but finally last
> December I bought brand new ones. I had the charger reprogrammed to
> the new software revision in January and setup to match the
> Dynasties. I was instructed not to use it with battery regulators
> like Rudman Regs or equalizers like the PowerCheqs as they would
> confuse the micro-processor and make the charger shut off too
> soon. Now $1750 worth of batteries have lasted only 7 useable months
> and probably only about 1000 miles. This is way more expensive than
> buying gas, even if I drove a &^*%$ Hummer! I built the car to have
> a nice EV as a daily driver, not a way to dispose of money. The NG-5
> uses the new pulse charge algorithm that was supposed to increase
> battery life, not decrease it.
>
> So, where should I go from here? The EV is a Honda Civic conversion,
> 156 Volts, designed to hold thirteen group size 31 12 Volt
> batteries. The four under the hood mount flat, but the rear nine are
> on end. The charger, as I mentioned is a Zivan NG-5, which is
> reprogramable, I think down to 144 Volts. Since the Auburn
> controller and the 8" Advanced DC motor are at their upper limits,
> going higher isn't an option. Originally the car was setup with 26
> Delphi batteries from an EV1 and had the suspension and brakes
> upgraded to carry 1144 pounds of batteries. One suggestion I
> received was to strip out the Civic and convert a newer Civic with
> more under hood space, and switch to eighteen 8 Volt flooded golf
> cart batteries. Another was to switch to the Deka Dominator gel-cell
> batteries like I used successfully in my Solectria Forces, and have
> the NG-5 reset to match them as Zivan shows the factory charging
> curves are available. The retailer that sold me the Dynasty
> batteries has offered a replacement set at his cost, but after the
> existing sets stellar success, I really don't feel that is a rational
> option, even with the NG-5 cranked down to a lower finish voltage. I
> am even half-tempted to strip the Civic, buy a 9" and convert a truck
> with 156 Volts worth of 6 Volt floodies.
>
> Has anyone used an NG-5 with gel-cells? Success?
>
> Please give me some ideas here.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
> In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
> position. (Horace)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It wasn't reserve minutes.
The MAXX-29 used to state a 120 AH rating. I don't recall what the
reserve minutes were, a simple web search says 205 reserve minutes
though. That's 85.4 amp-hrs at 25 amps.
They no longer state any amp-hr or reserve minutes on the battery at
all. It states only 875 marine cranking amps and 675 cold cranking amps.
Danny
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
It's probably a 120 min reserve capacity, lots of noobs confuse reserve
capacity with Ah capacity.
Just reading the information here this does not look right. I have not
seen
any lead acid 120Ah batteries rated at the C-20 rate that weigh 57
pounds. Is
this a C-100 rating?
Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John: That sounds almost like a Dilbert. <g>
It did do some damage, at least to some of the folks I work with. The worse
here was a ruined DVD I was recording (power fluctuation)... and having to
retrieve my garbage can from down the street. <g> One friend lost his new
trailer. One tree across the bedroom, another across the kitchen. It was a
good thing he was staying in town, instead of out at his park. (The rig was
< 3 months old, too.) In Salem, some winds were good enough to rip off
shingles on one of my co-worker's homes, though the falling branches missed
him.
I wouldn't have thought of hooking up an EV to the house. Then again, you
probably have more batt power than most off-grid homes. BTW, running your
X-mas lights during a black-out could be considered showing off. <g>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity...
> Steve, it was indeed, quite a storm! The north Oregon coast got hammered
> with hurricane force 100+ mph winds (Mt. Hebo in the coast range had 114
> mph winds) but in the Portland metro area the wind peaks were just under
> 70 mph...not too horrible. It was really sad that the winds were also
> howling at 90 mph high up on Mt. Hood with it's single digit temps,
> preventing the rescue of the stranded climbers :-(
>
> I was ready with all sorts of backup battery-inverter power, but alas,
> our lights only flickered on - off - on a few times, but we never truly
> lost power. As I said, I was soooo ready though!
>
> I had made sure the night before when the high wind forecast was a sure
> thing, to get all my battery power fully charged up. The 360V, 26 ahr
> pack in White Zombie was freshly topped off. So was the 36V, 6 Orbital
> pack in the Heavy Metal Garden Tractor who's on-board 13.5V DC-DC
> converter can run a small 12 vdc to 120 vac inverter. So was a bank of
> four Trojan T145s in the EV shop. So were countless single 12V batteries
> here and there. So was the 576 lbs. of Trojan T145s in my work service
> truck (8 of them) for 1040 ahrs of 12V power that powers-up the 2000
> watt inverter on board. In addition to that inverter, I also had three
> smaller 300-400 watt inverters each connected to their own 12V, 26 ahr
> AGM batteries and already strategicly placed in the house, so that when
> the power went out, I could quickly get key lamps in the house lit back
> up. These lamps are already equipped with efficient fluorescent bulbs
> that draw 15 watts while outputting light more comparable to 100 watt
> incandescent types. At about an amp and a half from the 12V source, the
> lamps would stay nice and bright for at least 10 continuous hours.
>
> I also had an extension cord leading from the big inverter of the
> service truck to the house. In addition to all this, I also had my
> killer rechargeable flashlights all fully charged, too. For long periods
> without power, I also had the Zombie's gasoline fueled 10kw genset ready
> to go, plus the 7 kw genset/welder of the service truck as well. You
> might say, I 'was' well prepared in the area of emergency AC power!
>
> But as I said, the power simply stayed on :-(
>
> See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was ready with all sorts of backup battery-inverter power, but alas, our
lights only flickered on - off - on a few times, but we never truly lost
power. As I said, I was soooo ready though!
I got too use two of my inverters for a couple of hours, but we were only
out from 8PM to 10:30PM. I was very tempted to light the Christmas lights
back up to show off to the neighbors, but since I had no idea how long the
power would be out decided against it.
Damon
_________________________________________________________________
Your Hotmail address already works to sign into Windows Live Messenger! Get
it now
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have tried to solder large terminals with a mini butane torch before.
It didn't work as well as I expected at all. The flame may have been
hotter but the part was actually heating up slower than being in contact
with a soldering iron. It wanted to melt stuff around it. I believe
the flame was messing with the solder and metal surface too due to the
chemical action of the flame itself.
Danny
Storm Connors wrote:
I used a small butane torch on the connectors and held the diodes in my hand. This guarantees you won't overheat them. I soldered them to the outside of the connectors rather than inserting them inside.
"Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've been looking for 5 watt zener diodes and the most available one
out there seems to be the On Semiconductor 1N5342BG (6.8 volt, the 6.2
volt unit is also readily available.) This is a pretty small package
for 5 watts, only .130-.145 inch diameter. Is that large enough? Other
suppliers I should check out? (I've looked at Mouser, Digikey and
Newark.)
A 9/64 drill bit (.141 inch) won't fit into the cheap 10 ga. ring
terminals I have on hand (1/8th inch will easily.) I'm guessing I would
need to get some 8 ga. ring terminals, but I was wondering if anyone
who has built these has input before I order some better quality 8 and
10 gauge terminals. On this part of the assembly, is there a preferred
thermally conductive epoxy to use and method of getting it in there?
I was also wondering how the wire should be soldered to the ring
terminal. Should I drill little holes and push the lead through to
solder? It looks like a job for a powerful soldering iron - to bad my
old 250 watt iron burned out. I guess I'm also looking for a deal on a
new powerful iron, input appreciated.
For the bulb I'm eyeing the 43 bulb (such as Mouser part number
606-CM43) a 2.5 volt, 0.5 amp bulb with a socket available (Mouser
number 606-5100-822). My idea is to mount the bulbs in a group near
each block of batteries. The idea of adding a small resistor load looks
like a good idea. I have also been considering adding a red LED with 47
ohm resistor in series (that value for two 6.8v zeners) parallel across
each bulb as a kind of pay attention *now* point. I'm still
contemplating between using 2, 6.8v zener, a 6.2 and 6.8v zener, or 2,
6.2v zener and diode (Lee has suggested that could cause some thermal
issues.) Going over the numbers other list members have posted I'm a
bit concerned about using a 6.2 and 6.8 with Optima batteries because
their rested charged voltage is right at 13.2 volts.
I'm tossing my ideas out there for list members to criticize. I hope
learn from your knowledge and experience. I plan to do some more buggy
charging upgrades.
Thanx,
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We are planning to race exhibition at the All Harley Drag Racing
Association event at the Firebird Speedway in Chandler AZ on March
31st through April 1st.
We can't afford to transport the bike and trailer there, but I am
planning to be at the Battery Beach Burn-out on January 26th in Jupiter, FL.
Bill Dube'
At 12:31 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote:
Where do you race that bike at?
Jeffrey
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder then if person programming your Zivan NG5 knew that 2.47 VPC
was the limit - this info probably stay on Deka's web site unchanged.
Yet, they made it 2.55VPC, Why (answer won't change much now, but
I question if Zivan people know what they are doing...)
Victor
Mike Chancey wrote:
Hi folks,
Well, the guys at C&D Battery has finally rendered a verdict on my
Dynasty DCS-100L batteries. After first diagnosing the problem as
sulfated plates due to chronic under charging, they said:
Based on the provided charging and teardown evaluation, we conclude that
the batteries had been over charged at to high of voltage which
shortened their service life. The charging profile and descriptive
comments state the batteries were charged at voltages that averaged at
shutoff equal to 15.32 volts per unit or 2.55 v/c. We recommend the
recharge voltage be limited to 14.8 volts per unit or 2.47 v/c.
Batteries were overcharged/overheated No Credit Due
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I ran our cordless phone base and our house alarm panel off an inverter
powered by a Zappy battery. Does that count as running the house on EV
power?
We were out of power for only 15 hours. It was not below freezing, so it was
not a big deal to me. I need to keep things warm enough to prevent the water
pipes from freezing.
Our freezer is not insulated very well and stays frozen for only 10 hours.
We ran the generator for five hours to warm the house and cool the freezer.
Other people near here are still off grid and expect to be off for several
more days.
I can't keep up with the number of people reported on the news for dying of
carbon monoxide poisoning. They run generators or cook with charcoal inside
of houses and garages. The emergency services are telling people not to do
it, but they do it anyway.
Rich was telling me that people were riding the Washington State Ferry from
Edmonds to Kingston to buy gasoline and take back to Edmonds with them. That
is expensive gasoline if you include the ferry fare and the hours necessary
waiting in line to get it. That sounds like a serious addiction.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 9:33 AM
Subject: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
> I am surprised, no one has chimed in from the North West (WA. OR.)
> about the Thursday night/Friday morning Wind Storm... Worst in over a
> decade. Preceeded by a rain squal, that KILLED people here in Seattle
> Proper...
>
> Waiting to hear stories about Generators saving the day, DC-AC Inverters
> keeping the Furnace and Holiday Lights going. Etc...
>
> We are OK.. Neighborhood round U-Village (NE Seattle) only out for less
> than 2 hours Thursday night. Went all the way to Whidbey Island to
> check out our cabin on Lagoon Point. All OK their now too. Power back
> on.. But my sister is really hurting, in rural SE King County. That
> is why I wrote our local Seattle EV Group with an URGENT CALL to borrow
> a generator from some one not needing it right now...
>
> But now all the gas stations which have HAD power, are OUT OF GAS from
> unprecidented DEMAND from folks driving in to town from the burbs..
>
> As of this a.m. still a quarter million w/o heat or light...
> Seattle Times: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/home/index.html
>
> Got to be some good EV stories out there...
>
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 2:21 AM
Subject: KillaCycle Schedule for 2007 (was: A123 EV pack (was Re:
Lithium-ion batteries & Valence )
> We are planning to race exhibition at the All Harley Drag Racing
> Association event at the Firebird Speedway in Chandler AZ on March
> 31st through April 1st.
>
> We can't afford to transport the bike and trailer there, but I am
> planning to be at the Battery Beach Burn-out on January 26th in Jupiter,
FL.
>
> Bill Dube'
> Hi Bill;
Great! Will see ya there! Got my train tickets on the Silly Meteor,
ready to go.The bike will blow them all away, EVen most of the gassers!Now
if we could get Wayland ALL the way east this year<g>!?
Bob. Who ELSE is going?
> At 12:31 AM 12/18/2006, you wrote:
> >Where do you race that bike at?
> >
> >Jeffrey
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.22/590 - Release Date: 12/16/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I suggest you to review the description of the Mark Brueggemann meter,
showing a sliding scale in voltage, depending on the current drawn.
http://www.qsl.net/k5lxp/ev/evgauge/evgauge.html
126V at 0 amp is the limit and likely you are already damaging cells.
126V at 500A is no problem, most of the drop in voltage is
simply because of resistance - your batteries may be almost full
when you see this level, depending on wire lengths and gauge
and battery internal resistance.
Hope this clarifies,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bob Bath
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 2:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Sagging vs. discharge and cell reversal
Just a curious question-- not an issue I've had...
I've been careful not to drop below 126V with my 144v
pack under any circumstance, because I'd calculated
that that was the point that I'd be reversing cells.
A major contributor to the list wrote that if the
voltage drop is due to SAG, then you can drop below
that point, and not worry about reversing cells.
Soooo, what is that point then, for me, if it's not
126V? I mean, obviously, 84V is out of the question.
So are we talking "okay to 120, but only for short
lengths of time?"
Thanks,
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know quite how to explain this. I own a Sparrow that has a
Link-10 in it. I recently did some work on it (as all Sparrow owners
constantly are) that involved pulling the dash off. When I put it all
back together, I had a little leak in the heater hose that runs behind
the Link-10. I ignored it, as the defroster still worked, which is all
that I really cared about.
But in the last few days, my Link-10 amp-hour counter only counts down.
You probably think I'm crazy when I say this. You probably think that
I'm about to murder my batteries and that my charger is broken and I
just don't know it. But I'm quite certain that power is going back into
my batteries. I've sat in the car and watched independent amp meters,
both on the battery loop and the AC power link. My Link-10 is currently
(har har) reading 70Ah down with a set of 55Ah Optima Yellowtops.
Here's what I've observed:
1) The Link-10 reads voltage pretty accurately when the accelerator
isn't pressed or while I'm charging. I have confirmed this with another
voltmeter.
2) The Link-10 reads voltage poorly when I'm driving, particularly when
the accelerator is pressed lightly. It reads as much as 20% low.
Again, I've confirmed this with a good independent voltmeter.
3) The Link-10 reads instantaneous amps pretty accurately in all
situations. I can see positive or negative current while charging or
driving, or just sitting in my driveway with the heater on.
4) Ah usage is recorded while I drive, at more or less the same rate
that it always has been. It still takes me 14Ah to get home from work.
5) No positive amp-hours are recorded while charging, even though the
Link-10 clearly shows positive amps. It's as if it suddenly thinks that
the Peukert exponent of my batteries is infinite and it's discounting
all the current that goes into them as not counting toward state of
charge.
6) This behavior occurs whether or not I have recently been using the
heater, so I don't think that the temperature of the Link-10 has much to
do with it.
Has anybody ever seen this? Can anybody suggest a way to fix it?
Thanks,
Jake Oshins
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.green-car-guide.com/news/new-electric-cars-on-streets-of-london.htm
I mean, we have gotten to a point, where consumer can go out and just
buy an electric vehicle for their daily driving needs. Not only that,
they now have a CHOICE ?? what is the world coming to ?
Seriously, its good that there are cars to buy, its good to have
competition. Means that manufacturers can't sit idle and are stepping
up their efforts, like with REVA/G-Wiz coming out with AC drive, and
promising lithium-ion upgrade coming in next year.
Anyone willing to bet how long it will take to get to a $30 000 model
? And whether one of these small car companies or someone starting
from top end like Tesla gets there first ?
BTW, heres a relatively complete list of BEVs that are actually on
market and can be bought
http://www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~pscbrwm/cbev/buy.html
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It might look a tad strange, but what about going to the local craft
store and getting a seconds hand, maybe min hand, from the clock kit
department.?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You heat the part to be soldered. Don't put flame on the solder.
----- Original Message ----
From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 10:57:28 PM
Subject: Re: Zener regs revisited
I have tried to solder large terminals with a mini butane torch before.
It didn't work as well as I expected at all. The flame may have been
hotter but the part was actually heating up slower than being in contact
with a soldering iron. It wanted to melt stuff around it. I believe
the flame was messing with the solder and metal surface too due to the
chemical action of the flame itself.
Danny
Storm Connors wrote:
>I used a small butane torch on the connectors and held the diodes in my hand.
>This guarantees you won't overheat them. I soldered them to the outside of the
>connectors rather than inserting them inside.
>
>"Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've been looking for 5 watt zener diodes
>and the most available one
>out there seems to be the On Semiconductor 1N5342BG (6.8 volt, the 6.2
>volt unit is also readily available.) This is a pretty small package
>for 5 watts, only .130-.145 inch diameter. Is that large enough? Other
>suppliers I should check out? (I've looked at Mouser, Digikey and
>Newark.)
>
>A 9/64 drill bit (.141 inch) won't fit into the cheap 10 ga. ring
>terminals I have on hand (1/8th inch will easily.) I'm guessing I would
>need to get some 8 ga. ring terminals, but I was wondering if anyone
>who has built these has input before I order some better quality 8 and
>10 gauge terminals. On this part of the assembly, is there a preferred
>thermally conductive epoxy to use and method of getting it in there?
>
>I was also wondering how the wire should be soldered to the ring
>terminal. Should I drill little holes and push the lead through to
>solder? It looks like a job for a powerful soldering iron - to bad my
>old 250 watt iron burned out. I guess I'm also looking for a deal on a
>new powerful iron, input appreciated.
>
>For the bulb I'm eyeing the 43 bulb (such as Mouser part number
>606-CM43) a 2.5 volt, 0.5 amp bulb with a socket available (Mouser
>number 606-5100-822). My idea is to mount the bulbs in a group near
>each block of batteries. The idea of adding a small resistor load looks
>like a good idea. I have also been considering adding a red LED with 47
>ohm resistor in series (that value for two 6.8v zeners) parallel across
>each bulb as a kind of pay attention *now* point. I'm still
>contemplating between using 2, 6.8v zener, a 6.2 and 6.8v zener, or 2,
>6.2v zener and diode (Lee has suggested that could cause some thermal
>issues.) Going over the numbers other list members have posted I'm a
>bit concerned about using a 6.2 and 6.8 with Optima batteries because
>their rested charged voltage is right at 13.2 volts.
>
>I'm tossing my ideas out there for list members to criticize. I hope
>learn from your knowledge and experience. I plan to do some more buggy
>charging upgrades.
>
>Thanx,
>Paul "neon" G.
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In soldering large un-plated copper or brass terminals, it is best to
pre-tin the terminal surface and the component surface before soldering them
together.
There is too much rosin in a rosin core solder to fill a large terminal
barrel. You only need to tin the surfaces with the rosin core solder, then
insert your component leads and than finish up with pure lead solder to fill
the terminal barrel.
The method we use in some electrical installation that the specifications
calls for soldering wire terminals, is that we clamp the terminal barrel
vertical in a bench vise with smooth mar resistance aluminum jaws
protectors.
Brush the inside of the barrel or contact area with a stainless steel brush,
like the one's they use for copper plumbing pipes.
We then apply a tinning solution, which looks just like water, normally use
for silver soldering and other metals which you can get at a welding supply
company.
Next pre-heat the terminal to 330 degrees or a little bit more. This is the
melting temperature of pure lead. Then tin the surfaces again with rosin
core solder and wipe it until it looks very bright.
Insert the pre-tin component and now add the pure solder by taking the torch
and moving it around the terminal and let the frame touch the end of the
pure solder rod or wire. As the solder pools up keep rotating the flame
until the barrel is fill up.
You can start with a larger flame which may be about a 1 inch long and then
back the flame off to about 1/2 inch long when doing the soldering.
This is the same method I use for replacing or installing new battery post
on a battery.
You can use a modified method when making up battery cables to battery
clamps. It was found that the pre-tinning battery cables and installing
them into a pre-tin battery connection, that this increase the resistance of
the link.
It was found that installing the bare copper wire into the battery clamp
barrel first, then crimp and than apply solder to fill any air voids had the
least amount of resistance, because you had a copper to copper or brass
surface. The solder then fill the void which then reduce the resistance
further.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: Zener regs revisited
> I have tried to solder large terminals with a mini butane torch before.
> It didn't work as well as I expected at all. The flame may have been
> hotter but the part was actually heating up slower than being in contact
> with a soldering iron. It wanted to melt stuff around it. I believe
> the flame was messing with the solder and metal surface too due to the
> chemical action of the flame itself.
>
> Danny
>
> Storm Connors wrote:
>
> >I used a small butane torch on the connectors and held the diodes in my
> >hand. This guarantees you won't overheat them. I soldered them to the
> >outside of the connectors rather than inserting them inside.
> >
> >"Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've been looking for 5 watt zener
> >diodes and the most available one
> >out there seems to be the On Semiconductor 1N5342BG (6.8 volt, the 6.2
> >volt unit is also readily available.) This is a pretty small package
> >for 5 watts, only .130-.145 inch diameter. Is that large enough? Other
> >suppliers I should check out? (I've looked at Mouser, Digikey and
> >Newark.)
> >
> >A 9/64 drill bit (.141 inch) won't fit into the cheap 10 ga. ring
> >terminals I have on hand (1/8th inch will easily.) I'm guessing I would
> >need to get some 8 ga. ring terminals, but I was wondering if anyone
> >who has built these has input before I order some better quality 8 and
> >10 gauge terminals. On this part of the assembly, is there a preferred
> >thermally conductive epoxy to use and method of getting it in there?
> >
> >I was also wondering how the wire should be soldered to the ring
> >terminal. Should I drill little holes and push the lead through to
> >solder? It looks like a job for a powerful soldering iron - to bad my
> >old 250 watt iron burned out. I guess I'm also looking for a deal on a
> >new powerful iron, input appreciated.
> >
> >For the bulb I'm eyeing the 43 bulb (such as Mouser part number
> >606-CM43) a 2.5 volt, 0.5 amp bulb with a socket available (Mouser
> >number 606-5100-822). My idea is to mount the bulbs in a group near
> >each block of batteries. The idea of adding a small resistor load looks
> >like a good idea. I have also been considering adding a red LED with 47
> >ohm resistor in series (that value for two 6.8v zeners) parallel across
> >each bulb as a kind of pay attention *now* point. I'm still
> >contemplating between using 2, 6.8v zener, a 6.2 and 6.8v zener, or 2,
> >6.2v zener and diode (Lee has suggested that could cause some thermal
> >issues.) Going over the numbers other list members have posted I'm a
> >bit concerned about using a 6.2 and 6.8 with Optima batteries because
> >their rested charged voltage is right at 13.2 volts.
> >
> >I'm tossing my ideas out there for list members to criticize. I hope
> >learn from your knowledge and experience. I plan to do some more buggy
> >charging upgrades.
> >
> >Thanx,
> >Paul "neon" G.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.sfeva.org/wiki/For_Sale Look at the bottom of the page for my
review. Lawrence Rhodes...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Long" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 5:49 PM
> Subject: Zap Xebra
>
>
> > Does anyone here have one? If so, how reliable do you think it will be?
> >From what I read in this site's archives, the vehicles have been in
> production for around six months. If anyone has one, what is it's
practical
> range? The manufacture says 40 miles, but I figure it probably has a
> practical range of around 20 on level terrain.
> > Thanks,
> > Lawrence
> > of Glendale, CA
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jake,
Check the Advanced Functions F09 Set Discharge Floor for the Link-10. I had
mine set at 50% instead of factory default at 100%. If you have 100 ah
batteries and set the AH to 100 ah and the discharge floor set at 50 ah or
50%, then the Link-10 will indicated 25% used or 75% remaining even though
you use 50 ah.
I set my AH to 260 ah which would be 100% SOS. At the 50% discharge floor,
the Link-10 would indicated 75% while I only use 25 ah.
If you discharge below the 50% discharge floor, the Link-10 bar graph will
not fill up until you charge above the 50% level before your bar graph and
time of operation will again give you meaningful info.
It is easier for me to set it at 100%, which indicates the percentage of AH
remaining like gas remaining in a gas tank.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jake Oshins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 1:12 AM
Subject: Link-10 woes
> I don't know quite how to explain this. I own a Sparrow that has a
> Link-10 in it. I recently did some work on it (as all Sparrow owners
> constantly are) that involved pulling the dash off. When I put it all
> back together, I had a little leak in the heater hose that runs behind
> the Link-10. I ignored it, as the defroster still worked, which is all
> that I really cared about.
>
> But in the last few days, my Link-10 amp-hour counter only counts down.
> You probably think I'm crazy when I say this. You probably think that
> I'm about to murder my batteries and that my charger is broken and I
> just don't know it. But I'm quite certain that power is going back into
> my batteries. I've sat in the car and watched independent amp meters,
> both on the battery loop and the AC power link. My Link-10 is currently
> (har har) reading 70Ah down with a set of 55Ah Optima Yellowtops.
>
> Here's what I've observed:
>
> 1) The Link-10 reads voltage pretty accurately when the accelerator
> isn't pressed or while I'm charging. I have confirmed this with another
> voltmeter.
>
> 2) The Link-10 reads voltage poorly when I'm driving, particularly when
> the accelerator is pressed lightly. It reads as much as 20% low.
> Again, I've confirmed this with a good independent voltmeter.
>
> 3) The Link-10 reads instantaneous amps pretty accurately in all
> situations. I can see positive or negative current while charging or
> driving, or just sitting in my driveway with the heater on.
>
> 4) Ah usage is recorded while I drive, at more or less the same rate
> that it always has been. It still takes me 14Ah to get home from work.
>
> 5) No positive amp-hours are recorded while charging, even though the
> Link-10 clearly shows positive amps. It's as if it suddenly thinks that
> the Peukert exponent of my batteries is infinite and it's discounting
> all the current that goes into them as not counting toward state of
> charge.
>
> 6) This behavior occurs whether or not I have recently been using the
> heater, so I don't think that the temperature of the Link-10 has much to
> do with it.
>
>
> Has anybody ever seen this? Can anybody suggest a way to fix it?
>
> Thanks,
> Jake Oshins
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Bath wrote:
I've been careful not to drop below 126V with my 144v
pack under any circumstance, because I'd calculated
that that was the point that I'd be reversing cells.
Right. That's 1.75v/cell, or 10.5v per 12v battery.
A major contributor to the list wrote that if the
voltage drop is due to SAG, then you can drop below
that point, and not worry about reversing cells.
The trouble is, you can't tell the difference between a voltage drop due
to load current, and a voltage drop due to low state of charge. And,
total pack voltage doesn't tell you if there are dead cells.
The "1.75v/cell voltage under load" specification is a safe,
conservative limit. It's like the "xxx pounds test" specification for a
rope. You can count on the battery or rope being OK if you don't exceed
this limit. If you *do* exceed the limit by a little, it probably won't
break -- at least not right away. But you are at risk of a failure. The
more you exceed the limit, and the more often you do it, the greater the
chances for failure.
And, like a breaking rope, you probably won't have any warning before
the failure occurs!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Rich was telling me that people were riding the Washington State
> Ferry from Edmonds to Kingston to buy gasoline and take back to Edmonds
with
> them. That is expensive gasoline if you include the ferry fare and the
hours
> necessary waiting in line to get it. That sounds like a serious addiction.
> Joe Smalley
Wow...Not only that, but it's also dangerous and a violation of the ferry
rules against hauling fuel containers unless the gasoline is in the
vehicle's fuel tank. I remember being harrassed on the Kingston ferry for
having a 5gal fuel container which held biodiesel. I almost got tossed off
the ferry as I was supposed to have the diesel fuel in a yellow container,
not the prohibited red container.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:30 AM 12/19/2006, Myles Twete wrote:
Wow...Not only that, but it's also dangerous and a violation of the ferry
rules against hauling fuel containers unless the gasoline is in the
vehicle's fuel tank. I remember being harrassed on the Kingston ferry for
having a 5gal fuel container which held biodiesel. I almost got tossed off
the ferry as I was supposed to have the diesel fuel in a yellow container,
not the prohibited red container.
They've changed the rules in the last year or two. You are allowed
up to 12 gallons (i think) of fuel if it is in the approved fuel
cans. (i.e. the red ones.) They also allow more propane than they
used to as well.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had thought of this, but the shaft of my movement is 0.0235". Pretty
much like a needle / pin.
I suppose I could fill one in with epoxy and re-drill with a very small
drill bit. Or just use a pin =)
Jeff Shanab wrote:
It might look a tad strange, but what about going to the local craft
store and getting a seconds hand, maybe min hand, from the clock kit
department.?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Zap is the distributor of this made-in-China nEV/LSV
I suggest you read http://www.evfinder.com/xebra.htm
Then join http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Xebra_EV/
and ask them Xebra questions.
[IMHO: Xebra nEV/LSV is a work-in-progress. Read the group's POSTs
to know its problems/issues.
What is more important to me is for the same money of a new Xebra
or other production nEV, a nice pre-owned conversion EV will go
faster, farther, be more reliable, and look like a more common
vehicle.]
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Kaido, thanks much for posting this. I do feel this comparison is an
important milestone. What is sad for me is that the UK is pulling far ahead
of the U.S. in the acceptance of EVs. We had a head start at one time here
with the EV1 and the RAV 4 electric and others but it's all gone. We also
have many enthusiasts who have been building EV conversions since the 70s. I
recently posted on the amount of EVs in Italy which was impressive. It looks
like the UK will surpass them if they keep up the pace. Anyone out there
have a figure on the number of EVs in Los Angeles. I would sure like to be
proved wrong here.
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 12:16 AM
Subject: First electric car backtoback road test of this century ?
http://www.green-car-guide.com/news/new-electric-cars-on-streets-of-london.htm
I mean, we have gotten to a point, where consumer can go out and just
buy an electric vehicle for their daily driving needs. Not only that,
they now have a CHOICE ?? what is the world coming to ?
Seriously, its good that there are cars to buy, its good to have
competition. Means that manufacturers can't sit idle and are stepping
up their efforts, like with REVA/G-Wiz coming out with AC drive, and
promising lithium-ion upgrade coming in next year.
Anyone willing to bet how long it will take to get to a $30 000 model
? And whether one of these small car companies or someone starting
from top end like Tesla gets there first ?
BTW, heres a relatively complete list of BEVs that are actually on
market and can be bought
http://www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~pscbrwm/cbev/buy.html
-kert
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--- End Message ---
