EV Digest 6227
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: First electric car backtoback road test of this century ?
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Link-10 woes
by Jake Oshins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: First electric car backtoback road test of this century ?
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Smith 7.5 Tonne Electric Truck
by Geoff Linkleter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Smith 7.5 Tonne Electric Truck
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) APU and charge regulation
by Kevin Lura <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Battery powered scope for sale.
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) A123 Wh/kg Question
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) thanks
by Kevin Lura <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Battery Advice PLEASE
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Battery Advice PLEASE
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Battery Advice PLEASE
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Used Batteries WAS Re: [BULK] RE: If I only need a 5 mile
range ... rea...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Zener regs revisited
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Battery Advice PLEASE
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Battery Advice PLEASE
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Ah, the first, but not the last!
As a consequence of my MiniEl test's popularity I'll be doing a
videoed review of the NICE mega car as well as the Reva in a few
weeks time. (After we get back from our trip to the states we'll be
doing both test drives so expect them to be up on http://
www.youtube.com/profile?user=aminorjourney by February.
It's interesting to note their opinion of the G-Wiz. Having driven
the G-Wiz several times I'm inclined to agree and I'll be very
interested to see how the MEGA handles.
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
On 19 Dec 2006, at 08:16, Kaido Kert wrote:
http://www.green-car-guide.com/news/new-electric-cars-on-streets-of-
london.htm
I mean, we have gotten to a point, where consumer can go out and just
buy an electric vehicle for their daily driving needs. Not only that,
they now have a CHOICE ?? what is the world coming to ?
Seriously, its good that there are cars to buy, its good to have
competition. Means that manufacturers can't sit idle and are stepping
up their efforts, like with REVA/G-Wiz coming out with AC drive, and
promising lithium-ion upgrade coming in next year.
Anyone willing to bet how long it will take to get to a $30 000 model
? And whether one of these small car companies or someone starting
from top end like Tesla gets there first ?
BTW, heres a relatively complete list of BEVs that are actually on
market and can be bought
http://www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~pscbrwm/cbev/buy.html
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks. I appreciate that. But I'm not talking about the percentage
gauge. (It's currently set to 55Ah equals 0%.) My Link-10 actually
isn't registering any positive change in Ah, only negative changes.
- Jake
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Link-10 woes
Hello Jake,
Check the Advanced Functions F09 Set Discharge Floor for the Link-10. I
had
mine set at 50% instead of factory default at 100%. If you have 100 ah
batteries and set the AH to 100 ah and the discharge floor set at 50 ah
or
50%, then the Link-10 will indicated 25% used or 75% remaining even
though
you use 50 ah.
I set my AH to 260 ah which would be 100% SOS. At the 50% discharge
floor,
the Link-10 would indicated 75% while I only use 25 ah.
If you discharge below the 50% discharge floor, the Link-10 bar graph
will
not fill up until you charge above the 50% level before your bar graph
and
time of operation will again give you meaningful info.
It is easier for me to set it at 100%, which indicates the percentage of
AH
remaining like gas remaining in a gas tank.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jake Oshins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 1:12 AM
Subject: Link-10 woes
> I don't know quite how to explain this. I own a Sparrow that has a
> Link-10 in it. I recently did some work on it (as all Sparrow owners
> constantly are) that involved pulling the dash off. When I put it all
> back together, I had a little leak in the heater hose that runs behind
> the Link-10. I ignored it, as the defroster still worked, which is
all
> that I really cared about.
>
> But in the last few days, my Link-10 amp-hour counter only counts
down.
> You probably think I'm crazy when I say this. You probably think that
> I'm about to murder my batteries and that my charger is broken and I
> just don't know it. But I'm quite certain that power is going back
into
> my batteries. I've sat in the car and watched independent amp meters,
> both on the battery loop and the AC power link. My Link-10 is
currently
> (har har) reading 70Ah down with a set of 55Ah Optima Yellowtops.
>
> Here's what I've observed:
>
> 1) The Link-10 reads voltage pretty accurately when the accelerator
> isn't pressed or while I'm charging. I have confirmed this with
another
> voltmeter.
>
> 2) The Link-10 reads voltage poorly when I'm driving, particularly
when
> the accelerator is pressed lightly. It reads as much as 20% low.
> Again, I've confirmed this with a good independent voltmeter.
>
> 3) The Link-10 reads instantaneous amps pretty accurately in all
> situations. I can see positive or negative current while charging or
> driving, or just sitting in my driveway with the heater on.
>
> 4) Ah usage is recorded while I drive, at more or less the same rate
> that it always has been. It still takes me 14Ah to get home from
work.
>
> 5) No positive amp-hours are recorded while charging, even though the
> Link-10 clearly shows positive amps. It's as if it suddenly thinks
that
> the Peukert exponent of my batteries is infinite and it's discounting
> all the current that goes into them as not counting toward state of
> charge.
>
> 6) This behavior occurs whether or not I have recently been using the
> heater, so I don't think that the temperature of the Link-10 has much
to
> do with it.
>
>
> Has anybody ever seen this? Can anybody suggest a way to fix it?
>
> Thanks,
> Jake Oshins
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It might not be a bad idea to also go for the 1% tolerance diodes. If you get
the cheaper 6.2V and 6.8V diodes that are 5% you
could get combinations that range from 12.35V to 13.65V. A 1 V regulation
difference might run counter to your efforts to keep
them balanced.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Storm Connors
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:34 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Zener regs revisited
>
>
> I purchased from Digikey:
> 20 5w 6.2v zeners, 20 5w6.8v zeners, 12 10ohm .5w resistors and 30 6awg
> connectors at a cost of $52.53. I made up and
> tried out 2 regulators. Need tubing and potting compound. Anybody make me an
> offer on the parts? I went to 8v flooded
> and can't use them.
> storm
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 9:30:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Zener regs revisited
>
> I made up a set of 6.8's using Lee Hart's description - using large lugs (I
> think they were described as being suitable
> for up to 2 gauge!) I put a group of lugs in a vice, dropped some solder
> into each one, heated them with a torch until
> the solder melted, then stuck the diode into the solder before it solidified.
> After they cooled I filled with epoxy.
> After a while I felt that dual 6.8's were too high voltage for my AGM's so I
> decided to replace one 6.8 with a 6.2 on
> each battery. I tried a different technique for the 6.2's. I got a coil of
> 3/8 inch copper tubing, and cut it into 2"
> pieces. I flattened the pieces about 90%, then put the diode in the tubing
> and "crimped" the wire inside in a vice.
> I used a pair of pliers to bed the tubing around the body of the diode,
> leaving the other wire coming out the end. I
> then drilled a hole in the now flat tubing for the battery bolt, and voila.
> The 6.2's work fine, but do get noticably
> hotter than the more massive 6.8's,
> even though they should be handling slighty less wattage.
>
> "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've been looking for 5 watt zener
> diodes and the most available one
> out there seems to be the On Semiconductor 1N5342BG (6.8 volt, the 6.2
> volt unit is also readily available.) This is a pretty small package
> for 5 watts, only .130-.145 inch diameter. Is that large enough? Other
> suppliers I should check out? (I've looked at Mouser, Digikey and
> Newark.)
>
> A 9/64 drill bit (.141 inch) won't fit into the cheap 10 ga. ring
> terminals I have on hand (1/8th inch will easily.) I'm guessing I would
> need to get some 8 ga. ring terminals, but I was wondering if anyone
> who has built these has input before I order some better quality 8 and
> 10 gauge terminals. On this part of the assembly, is there a preferred
> thermally conductive epoxy to use and method of getting it in there?
>
> I was also wondering how the wire should be soldered to the ring
> terminal. Should I drill little holes and push the lead through to
> solder? It looks like a job for a powerful soldering iron - to bad my
> old 250 watt iron burned out. I guess I'm also looking for a deal on a
> new powerful iron, input appreciated.
>
> For the bulb I'm eyeing the 43 bulb (such as Mouser part number
> 606-CM43) a 2.5 volt, 0.5 amp bulb with a socket available (Mouser
> number 606-5100-822). My idea is to mount the bulbs in a group near
> each block of batteries. The idea of adding a small resistor load looks
> like a good idea. I have also been considering adding a red LED with 47
> ohm resistor in series (that value for two 6.8v zeners) parallel across
> each bulb as a kind of pay attention *now* point. I'm still
> contemplating between using 2, 6.8v zener, a 6.2 and 6.8v zener, or 2,
> 6.2v zener and diode (Lee has suggested that could cause some thermal
> issues.) Going over the numbers other list members have posted I'm a
> bit concerned about using a 6.2 and 6.8 with Optima batteries because
> their rested charged voltage is right at 13.2 volts.
>
> I'm tossing my ideas out there for list members to criticize. I hope
> learn from your knowledge and experience. I plan to do some more buggy
> charging upgrades.
>
> Thanx,
> Paul "neon" G.
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> After we get back from our trip to the states we'll be
> doing both test drives so expect them to be up on http://
> www.youtube.com/profile?user=aminorjourney by February.
Nikki
Where in the US are you visiting? Any stops with local EV personalities?
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I apologise if this has already featured on the list..... I'm a bit behind with
reading the mail.
Smith Electrice Vehicles in the UK have recently announced a new 7.5 Tonne ev.
For details see
http://www.smithelectricvehicles.com/index.asp
The truck has four 278V sodium nickle batteries giving a top speed of 50mph, a
claimed range of about 130 miles and a payload of 4000kg.
Geoff
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bad web design can hurt your business! Click to hire a professional
http://tags.bluebottle.com/fc/KCuXzzVe8xdK5ccKlmIb86mUrCL0vr/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Super cool! They actually claim up to even 160 miles range on one of their
pages.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Linkleter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 1:41 PM
Subject: Smith 7.5 Tonne Electric Truck
I apologise if this has already featured on the list..... I'm a bit behind
with reading the mail.
Smith Electrice Vehicles in the UK have recently announced a new 7.5 Tonne
ev. For details see
http://www.smithelectricvehicles.com/index.asp
The truck has four 278V sodium nickle batteries giving a top speed of
50mph, a claimed range of about 130 miles and a payload of 4000kg.
Geoff
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bad web design can hurt your business! Click to hire a professional
http://tags.bluebottle.com/fc/KCuXzzVe8xdK5ccKlmIb86mUrCL0vr/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been looking at systems like these two and an curious how I would wire
these up to my
batterys and APU.
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sailboatkit.htm
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/PARTS/parts.htm look under complete drive kit.
I want to ensure that I have power for propulsion and am not overcharging the
batterys. I would
use a alternator for the APU and regen on the motor. How would the alternator
regulator handle the
large load of being used as an APU? I am guessing the simplest answer is to
regulate the
alternators power manually and use a shunt type regulator on the batterys for a
little bit more
protection. This would be tricky as the motor changed its speed and the thought
of going into
regen braking could put alot of power to the battery pack.
That would not be optimal and I hope you guys have some better ideas.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
This scope is brand new and perfect for safely working on EV's and
hybrids. You can run it on it's build in battery pack for hours. It
makes troubleshooting your vehicle very helpful. I have two battery
powered scopes and decided to part with one of them via Ebay. They have
been a huge help! 270070843001 is the Ebay auction number.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was looking at the A123 spec sheet here:
http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/ANR26650M1specs.pdf
Am I reading this all correctly when I pick off the Ah at around 1.8 and
a voltage of about 3.2 at 1 amp and divide by the core cell weight to
come up with a Wh/kg of about 82?
(1.8 * 3.2)/70g * 1000g/1kg
Interpolating from the graph, the lower the amperage draw, the higher
the voltage which translates to a higher specific energy. So if I had
used 3.5 volts, Wh/kg would have be around 90?
Peter
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
About how much power can a ICE's alternator put out when the engine is
idling? I ask because we had a 12-hour power outage at our house over
the weekend, and I was unable to get my backup generator started. I
did, however, have a 300W inverter that I hooked up to some of my EV
batteries. It takes only about 300W to operate three of my radiant
floor heating pumps and keep the main part of the house warm . I was
wondering, however, if I left our 4Running idling in the driveway and
ran heavy extension cord to the inverter, if the car could supply
enough power in a pinch.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There doesn't seem to be any more important issue with the operation of an
EV than maintaining the battery pack in a correct state of charge. This is
the _one thing_ that even EVers with long experience have trouble with.
Especially where AGMs are concerned.
I have recently installed what you could term a hybrid charging system in an
EV with 12 brand new Deka Intimidators.
After a few dozen cycles the batteries remain almost perfectly balanced.
A Russco charger is used for bulk charging, up to about 80% full, then is
switched to individual Soniel 3A chargers.
The price of each Soniel charger is less than the price of a PowerCheq or a
Rudman Reg.
The owner of this EV is pleased that his new batteries are happy and
healthy.
Also recommended was using the bulk charger to do an occasional (monitored)
overcharge.
Using the Soniels alone to charge takes more than an hour of charging for
each mile driven :-0
Modular charging appears to work well as a poor man's BMS.
Other than the guy down in FL that cooked his chargers in a closed car in
direct sunlight, I don't see any major issues with this approach as long as
reasonable temps are maintained.
This particular EV is charged in a cool garage in Portland OR.
Some folks have had Optimas/other AGMs last for many years with modular
charging.
This approach seems to work well.
Comments? Madman?
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Director
www.nedra.com
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win?
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://davevscarl.spaces.live.com/?icid=T001MSN38C07001
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good idea.
Your results are as good as the little modular chargers..
For $20 Bucks.... That's the weak point.
This will work for many cycles.. then..... ER...
The cheap stuff takes it's toll.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Battery Advice PLEASE
There doesn't seem to be any more important issue with the operation of an
EV than maintaining the battery pack in a correct state of charge. This is
the _one thing_ that even EVers with long experience have trouble with.
Especially where AGMs are concerned.
I have recently installed what you could term a hybrid charging system in an
EV with 12 brand new Deka Intimidators.
After a few dozen cycles the batteries remain almost perfectly balanced.
A Russco charger is used for bulk charging, up to about 80% full, then is
switched to individual Soniel 3A chargers.
The price of each Soniel charger is less than the price of a PowerCheq or a
Rudman Reg.
The owner of this EV is pleased that his new batteries are happy and
healthy.
Also recommended was using the bulk charger to do an occasional (monitored)
overcharge.
Using the Soniels alone to charge takes more than an hour of charging for
each mile driven :-0
Modular charging appears to work well as a poor man's BMS.
Other than the guy down in FL that cooked his chargers in a closed car in
direct sunlight, I don't see any major issues with this approach as long as
reasonable temps are maintained.
This particular EV is charged in a cool garage in Portland OR.
Some folks have had Optimas/other AGMs last for many years with modular
charging.
This approach seems to work well.
Comments? Madman?
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Director
www.nedra.com
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win?
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://davevscarl.spaces.live.com/?icid=T001MSN38C07001
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bill,
A alternator needs a minimum of 1000 rpm at the alternator pulley to excited
it. If your engine pulley is a 6 inch and the alternator pulley is a 3
inch, then its take engine at 500 rpm to excited it.
The engine rpm can drop to a low of 200 rpm before you lose the alternator
power.
Lets say you have a 12 VDC to 120 VAC inverter at a peak 5 Kw and a running
3 Kw. A load of 10 amp on the 120 vac side, requires 12 vdc at 100 amps at
the alternator.
If you have a 80 amp alternator, than 8 amps should be the maximum on the AC
side.
A better way is using a DC-DC-DC-AC alternator-inverter, which has external
field connections which are +F, -F, and Trio diode that is connected
directly to the 3 phase 60 vac output of the alternator.
A inverter unit such as a Dynamote unit, converts this voltage first to 110
VDC which has a rating of 7kw for a 145 amp alternator. Then it converts
its to 120 VAC 60 Hz at about 6kw. This inverter has a optional 14.5 VDC
output for any 12 volt loads or for charging a battery.
I can just plug in a 12 volt smart charger into inverter outlets which can
charge a battery up to 40 amps and/or 12 volt power supply. I used a
transfer switch which I can used to switch any AC loads from the on-board
inverter to commercial power.
I think Steve said, that you can connect one of these solid state smart
chargers right off you battery pack, which works good as a DC-DC 12 volt
power source. These units are made by Shumaker.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
> About how much power can a ICE's alternator put out when the engine is
> idling? I ask because we had a 12-hour power outage at our house over
> the weekend, and I was unable to get my backup generator started. I
> did, however, have a 300W inverter that I hooked up to some of my EV
> batteries. It takes only about 300W to operate three of my radiant
> floor heating pumps and keep the main part of the house warm . I was
> wondering, however, if I left our 4Running idling in the driveway and
> ran heavy extension cord to the inverter, if the car could supply
> enough power in a pinch.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, you will definitely want to keep the Soniels where you can see that
they are working. The one I bought to test out finally died after several
years of almost constant use. If it would have been installed in a car out
of sight I would have had no way of knowing that one battery was not getting
it's finish charge. My Soneil floated around the garage and has been used to
charge just about every battery I have ever owned. Those things sure are
handy.
In my mind modular finish charging and using regs are both good ways to
maximize the life of a series string of sealed batteries. I've never used a
reg, but I would be very comfortable going with a setup like you have
described as I really liked my little Soneil.
damon
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Battery Advice PLEASE
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 14:23:59 -0800
Good idea.
Your results are as good as the little modular chargers..
For $20 Bucks.... That's the weak point.
This will work for many cycles.. then..... ER...
The cheap stuff takes it's toll.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Battery Advice PLEASE
There doesn't seem to be any more important issue with the operation of an
EV than maintaining the battery pack in a correct state of charge. This is
the _one thing_ that even EVers with long experience have trouble with.
Especially where AGMs are concerned.
I have recently installed what you could term a hybrid charging system in
an
EV with 12 brand new Deka Intimidators.
After a few dozen cycles the batteries remain almost perfectly balanced.
A Russco charger is used for bulk charging, up to about 80% full, then is
switched to individual Soniel 3A chargers.
The price of each Soniel charger is less than the price of a PowerCheq or a
Rudman Reg.
The owner of this EV is pleased that his new batteries are happy and
healthy.
Also recommended was using the bulk charger to do an occasional (monitored)
overcharge.
Using the Soniels alone to charge takes more than an hour of charging for
each mile driven :-0
Modular charging appears to work well as a poor man's BMS.
Other than the guy down in FL that cooked his chargers in a closed car in
direct sunlight, I don't see any major issues with this approach as long as
reasonable temps are maintained.
This particular EV is charged in a cool garage in Portland OR.
Some folks have had Optimas/other AGMs last for many years with modular
charging.
This approach seems to work well.
Comments? Madman?
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Director
www.nedra.com
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win?
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://davevscarl.spaces.live.com/?icid=T001MSN38C07001
_________________________________________________________________
Visit MSN Holiday Challenge for your chance to win up to $50,000 in Holiday
cash from MSN today!
http://www.msnholidaychallenge.com/index.aspx?ocid=tagline&locale=en-us
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes it could.
But Use large and short cables.
Most alternators can supply 60 to 150 amps of 12 volts.
So.. you have 750 to 1800 watts available.
Plus the stored power in your battery.
The simplest set up is a 600 watter from Ratshack or Graingers,
A GOOD set of jumper cables and then Use a extention cord to run the 120 to
where it's needed.
And Darn it folks, park the ICE far enough away to not GAS your self with
CO. Yea that means the ICE is in the driveway not the closed garage, and not
in the basment!!!
We have lost 12 souls to Stupidity and lack of common sense up here in Cold
dark Seattle this last week. I don't want to hear about a EVer getting sick
or Dead...I have enough Damage from a CO event 3.5 decades back...
Clearly I would rather die of exposure than CO...
I have 2000 watts of Grid heat on my feet at this moment.. and over 6000
watts of Christmas lilght on line..
It ain't Dark at Manzanita
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
> About how much power can a ICE's alternator put out when the engine is
> idling? I ask because we had a 12-hour power outage at our house over
> the weekend, and I was unable to get my backup generator started. I
> did, however, have a 300W inverter that I hooked up to some of my EV
> batteries. It takes only about 300W to operate three of my radiant
> floor heating pumps and keep the main part of the house warm . I was
> wondering, however, if I left our 4Running idling in the driveway and
> ran heavy extension cord to the inverter, if the car could supply
> enough power in a pinch.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My bad, I couldn't find the complete specs for this battery online. The
few references I did find referenced a website that doesn't exist anymore.
www.everstartbatteries.com www.everstart-batteries.com both pull up search
engines/portals.
It seems a bit to good to be true. I suppose it could be mostly a
starting battery that they've sold as a "Marine" battery. That might
provide 12V @ 120 AH in a 57lb battery, wouldn't last very long as a deep
cycle though.
I've seen a few group 31 size Marine batteries that spec 120ah, but they
all weigh in around 75 lbs.
This one for example: http://www.tempestbatteries.com/html/group31.html
> It wasn't reserve minutes.
>
> The MAXX-29 used to state a 120 AH rating. I don't recall what the
> reserve minutes were, a simple web search says 205 reserve minutes
> though. That's 85.4 amp-hrs at 25 amps.
>
> They no longer state any amp-hr or reserve minutes on the battery at
> all. It states only 875 marine cranking amps and 675 cold cranking amps.
>
> Danny
>
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
>>It's probably a 120 min reserve capacity, lots of noobs confuse reserve
>>capacity with Ah capacity.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Just reading the information here this does not look right. I have not
>>>seen
>>>any lead acid 120Ah batteries rated at the C-20 rate that weigh 57
>>>pounds. Is
>>>this a C-100 rating?
>>>
>>>Don
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Zener regs revisited
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:23:48 -0900
It might not be a bad idea to also go for the 1% tolerance diodes. If you
get the cheaper 6.2V and 6.8V diodes that are 5% you
could get combinations that range from 12.35V to 13.65V. A 1 V regulation
difference might run counter to your efforts to keep
them balanced.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
Or, since they're so cheap ( 80 cents apiece in quantities of 10 from D-K)
you could just get a bunch extra ( maybe twice as many as you need) and
then hand select them to be close in value.
Phil
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--- Begin Message ---
Nope not any more.
limits are 6 gallons per container and 2 containers.
In the weather...and wind.. you would get Ferry boat workers tossed over
board and US Coasty Gards Keel hauled for trying to enforce a STupid law in
a time of emergency.
On a warm summer day... a prudent over safe idea is OK to enforce.
Common sense is being used by the Ferry Guys. It's not a big thing now that
the rules are slacked a bit.
We use a out of site, out of mind concept. They don't see it... they don't
ask. And they don't want to ask.
I know I have Highschool Buddies driving those boats nowdays.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
> > Rich was telling me that people were riding the Washington State
> > Ferry from Edmonds to Kingston to buy gasoline and take back to Edmonds
> with
> > them. That is expensive gasoline if you include the ferry fare and the
> hours
> > necessary waiting in line to get it. That sounds like a serious
addiction.
> > Joe Smalley
>
> Wow...Not only that, but it's also dangerous and a violation of the ferry
> rules against hauling fuel containers unless the gasoline is in the
> vehicle's fuel tank. I remember being harrassed on the Kingston ferry for
> having a 5gal fuel container which held biodiesel. I almost got tossed
off
> the ferry as I was supposed to have the diesel fuel in a yellow container,
> not the prohibited red container.
>
> -Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It varies depending on the alternator. My old Ford Motorcraft 2G
alternator put out something like 20 amps at low RPM. Maybe less.
The newer Motorcraft 3G I replaced it with was awesome. When I measured
it, the engine was running a bit of a high idle but that thing could put
out over 80 amps easily.
Depending on your vehicle, idling can take a surprising amount of gas.
The 4-stroke inverter generators- Honda sells 3 versions at least, and
there's a yellow line sold by someone else but I think they may be the
same thing repackaged. Those are very quiet and efficient. Put out
1KW, 2KW, I think the big version is 3KW.
Danny
Bill Dennis wrote:
About how much power can a ICE's alternator put out when the engine is
idling? I ask because we had a 12-hour power outage at our house over
the weekend, and I was unable to get my backup generator started. I
did, however, have a 300W inverter that I hooked up to some of my EV
batteries. It takes only about 300W to operate three of my radiant
floor heating pumps and keep the main part of the house warm . I was
wondering, however, if I left our 4Running idling in the driveway and
ran heavy extension cord to the inverter, if the car could supply
enough power in a pinch.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I worried about that 5% factor but the zeners I got (from Allied Electronics,
perhaps?) for less than a quarter apiece turned out to be very closely matched
in practice.
Phil Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>From: Mike Willmon
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Zener regs revisited
>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:23:48 -0900
>
>It might not be a bad idea to also go for the 1% tolerance diodes. If you
>get the cheaper 6.2V and 6.8V diodes that are 5% you
>could get combinations that range from 12.35V to 13.65V. A 1 V regulation
>difference might run counter to your efforts to keep
>them balanced.
>
>Mike,
>Anchorage, Ak.
>
Or, since they're so cheap ( 80 cents apiece in quantities of 10 from D-K)
you could just get a bunch extra ( maybe twice as many as you need) and
then hand select them to be close in value.
Phil
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
Good idea.
Your results are as good as the little modular chargers..
For $20 Bucks.... That's the weak point.
This will work for many cycles.. then..... ER...
The cheap stuff takes it's toll.
So... do you think you could be any _less_ specific than this Rich :^D
Good feedback is good.
This is _no_ feedback.
BTW, the chargers are more like $40 each.
What about John Bryan's Ghia that worked sucessfully for many years with YTs
and a bank of Currie ebike chargers?
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Director
www.nedra.com
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can't leave a car idling in the driveway.
You will kill yourself from carbon monooxide.
A whole famile was killed when the idling car OUTSIDE in the driveway
put out enough carbon monoxide to leak under their back door and kill
the whole family inside the house.
People don't realize that you can never leave a car idling near people.
Carbon monoxide is extremely invasive and poisonous.
It seeps everywhere and by the time you feel anything your whole blood
stream is saturated and you are already dead. (Fresh air doesn't help by
then because all you r red blood cells are permanently tied up with the
carbon monoxide molecules and only a blood transfusion gives you any
chance)
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 1:35 pm, Bill Dennis wrote:
About how much power can a ICE's alternator put out when the engine is
idling? I ask because we had a 12-hour power outage at our house over
the weekend, and I was unable to get my backup generator started. I
did, however, have a 300W inverter that I hooked up to some of my EV
batteries. It takes only about 300W to operate three of my radiant
floor heating pumps and keep the main part of the house warm . I was
wondering, however, if I left our 4Running idling in the driveway and
ran heavy extension cord to the inverter, if the car could supply
enough power in a pinch.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Needless to say you ca't leave a car idling inside the carport either.
That's even worse but I assume people already know that.
You can't leave a car idling in the driveway.
You will kill yourself from carbon monooxide.
A whole famile was killed when the idling car OUTSIDE in the driveway
put out enough carbon monoxide to leak under their back door and kill
the whole family inside the house.
People don't realize that you can never leave a car idling near people.
Carbon monoxide is extremely invasive and poisonous.
It seeps everywhere and by the time you feel anything your whole blood
stream is saturated and you are already dead. (Fresh air doesn't help by
then because all you r red blood cells are permanently tied up with the
carbon monoxide molecules and only a blood transfusion gives you any
chance)
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 1:35 pm, Bill Dennis wrote:
About how much power can a ICE's alternator put out when the engine is
idling? I ask because we had a 12-hour power outage at our house over
the weekend, and I was unable to get my backup generator started. I
did, however, have a 300W inverter that I hooked up to some of my EV
batteries. It takes only about 300W to operate three of my radiant
floor heating pumps and keep the main part of the house warm . I was
wondering, however, if I left our 4Running idling in the driveway and
ran heavy extension cord to the inverter, if the car could supply
enough power in a pinch.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Damon
damon henry wrote:
Yes, you will definitely want to keep the Soniels where you can see that
they are working.
Yes, this is very important.
Chargers are mounted on boards under the rear hatch on a Geo Metro, very
visible. Each one is labeled as to the battery it is charging. Each one is
fused right next to the battery it is charging.
You can watch them all come up within minutes or even seconds of each other.
Additionally... there are backup chargers in case of failure.
I have also had great luck with the Soniel chargers in a wide variety of
bike and scooter applications.
Always kept the batteries healthy and never had a problem with one.
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Director
www.nedra.com
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
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it now
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Of course it's possible, but I'm sure it takes your discretion to make
sure it doesn't happen. The wind is always blowing where I'm at - at
least a little. My driveway is also 15 feet away from my residence. Not
that I would leave my car idling anyway unless I really had to. You
can't just write statements like "You can't .. you will die" - there are
dependencies.
--
Martin K
GWMobile wrote:
Needless to say you ca't leave a car idling inside the carport either.
That's even worse but I assume people already know that.
You can't leave a car idling in the driveway.
You will kill yourself from carbon monooxide.
A whole famile was killed when the idling car OUTSIDE in the driveway
put out enough carbon monoxide to leak under their back door and kill
the whole family inside the house.
People don't realize that you can never leave a car idling near
people. Carbon monoxide is extremely invasive and poisonous.
It seeps everywhere and by the time you feel anything your whole blood
stream is saturated and you are already dead. (Fresh air doesn't help
by then because all you r red blood cells are permanently tied up with
the carbon monoxide molecules and only a blood transfusion gives you
any chance)
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 1:35 pm, Bill Dennis wrote:
About how much power can a ICE's alternator put out when the engine
is idling? I ask because we had a 12-hour power outage at our house
over the weekend, and I was unable to get my backup generator
started. I did, however, have a 300W inverter that I hooked up to
some of my EV batteries. It takes only about 300W to operate three
of my radiant floor heating pumps and keep the main part of the house
warm . I was wondering, however, if I left our 4Running idling in
the driveway and ran heavy extension cord to the inverter, if the
car could supply enough power in a pinch.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
