EV Digest 6228
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by "David O'Neel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) regen: SepEx motors availability /parallel string charging?
by "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Zener regulators
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Zener regulators
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Battery Advice PLEASE
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) two motors on a VW bug. What thickness for the plate?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: A123 Wh/kg Question
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Video of 1913 Waverly Electric
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: OT - CO poisoning
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Link-10 woes
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: OT - CO poisoning
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Zener regs revisited
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: A123 Wh/kg Question
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Video of 1913 Waverly Electric, Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Zener regs revisited
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Zener regs revisited
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Link-10 woes
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: KillaCycle Schedule for 2007
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) EV parts available
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: KillaCycle Schedule for 2007
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I'm pretty sure we'd be okay:
1) We have a long driveway that extends 165 feet from the house
2) No other houses near the driveway
3) We have carbon monoxide detectors installed in various locations
throughout the house, including the bedroom--and I always make sure they
have power going to them during a power outage when I'm using a
generator (or in this case, the 4Runner)
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
SO, now that we're completely off topic, I have my power back today! I drew
the line when I came home from work yesterday and my house was a nice 39
degrees inside. Went back to work and got a 24V DC to 110V AC inverter and 4
trojan T145s. Wired it up and ran a compact fluorescent light and the blower
for my natural gas fireplace which does nothing but look pretty unless the
fan is on. Those batteries are still over 24V tho even after running for 30
hours or so. This morning I was tempted to try it with the microwave or the
coffee pot but didnt want to push my luck since I can have those things at
elsewhere. Lights and heat are the bottom line for me.
Time to go have myself a nice hot shower!
By the way, the batteries and inverter will be for sale shortly if anyone is
interested ;-) slightly used of course.
~Dave O.
Redmond Wa.
On 12/18/06, Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am surprised, no one has chimed in from the North West (WA. OR.)
about the Thursday night/Friday morning Wind Storm... Worst in over a
decade. Preceeded by a rain squal, that KILLED people here in Seattle
Proper...
Waiting to hear stories about Generators saving the day, DC-AC Inverters
keeping the Furnace and Holiday Lights going. Etc...
We are OK.. Neighborhood round U-Village (NE Seattle) only out for less
than 2 hours Thursday night. Went all the way to Whidbey Island to
check out our cabin on Lagoon Point. All OK their now too. Power back
on.. But my sister is really hurting, in rural SE King County. That
is why I wrote our local Seattle EV Group with an URGENT CALL to borrow
a generator from some one not needing it right now...
But now all the gas stations which have HAD power, are OUT OF GAS from
unprecidented DEMAND from folks driving in to town from the burbs..
As of this a.m. still a quarter million w/o heat or light...
Seattle Times: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/home/index.html
Got to be some good EV stories out there...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
in a possibly unwise and futile hunt for DC regen, I found a DC / SepEx
controller with regen, 96 volt max, but can only find ADC SepEx motors that
go to 72 volts. Anyone know some other
source of SepEx motors? I guess 96 volt is all I would need, given that's
as high as the controller goes
So, given the highly theoretical possibility of a SepEx regen system,
with maybe 96 volts of (AGM) batteries in 2 parallel strings, however
imprudent and foolish such a design may be,
I presume practical pointers for use of such a system would be
- some sort of regulators, if only just a very basic Lee Hart light
bulb/diode system
- don't discharge such a pack too low (beyond 70% or 80%) for fear of some
batteries going too low, reversing, getting destroyed, etc.
- maybe (??) charge the strings separately, once in a while (just making it
up here ...), esp.
if I find one or more batteries out of kilter with the rest, etc.
- (or maybe just "friends don't let friends do parallel strings" or
something ?)
Thanks for any advice, however scattered my questions may be ...
Seth Myers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Phil Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> It might not be a bad idea to also go for the 1% tolerance diodes. If you
>> get the cheaper 6.2V and 6.8V diodes that are 5% you
>> could get combinations that range from 12.35V to 13.65V.
From: Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I worried about that 5% factor but the zeners I got (from Allied Electronics,
> perhaps?) for less than a quarter apiece turned out to be very closely
> matched in practice.
Same here. The ones I've bought have all turned out to be very close -- much
better than 5%. I originally thought that I could match them up in pairs (one
high and one low) to make the voltages the same for all pairs, but matching
wasn't necessary.
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am contemplating zener regulators for my solar system, and my ev.
Both have 16 T105s. The EV batteries have 2000 miles on them placed in
service last July.
The solar system batteries are about 5 years old, and only used for
stand-by backup.
1. Will a pair of 3.3v zeners in series with a light bulb work for 6
volt golf cart deep cycle batteries?
2. Is there a better choice?
John in Sylmar, CA Solar Powered 1981 Jet Electrica Ford Escort conversion
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I ran into the same prob when I lived upriver. W/o power, and having a
parrot, I wanted to keep it warm. I figured the propane stove would work in
a pinch... but like your furnace it was useless w/o electricity. <sigh> I
wired in a UPS... worked OK. For this house I have a cat heater... haven't
needed it, yet.
At least I don't have probs like my friend. His basement (living space)
flooded overnight w/o power. He grabbed his parent's generator, but the carb
had dried out. It'd run so long as there wasn't more than about 3 minute's
worth of fuel in the tank. <g> His in-law showed up w/ a generator... they
ran it for 30 minutes and the power came back on.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David O'Neel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
> SO, now that we're completely off topic, I have my power back today! I
drew
> the line when I came home from work yesterday and my house was a nice 39
> degrees inside. Went back to work and got a 24V DC to 110V AC inverter and
4
> trojan T145s. Wired it up and ran a compact fluorescent light and the
blower
> for my natural gas fireplace which does nothing but look pretty unless the
> fan is on. Those batteries are still over 24V tho even after running for
30
> hours or so. This morning I was tempted to try it with the microwave or
the
> coffee pot but didnt want to push my luck since I can have those things at
> elsewhere. Lights and heat are the bottom line for me.
>
> Time to go have myself a nice hot shower!
> By the way, the batteries and inverter will be for sale shortly if anyone
is
> interested ;-) slightly used of course.
>
> ~Dave O.
> Redmond Wa.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I am contemplating zener regulators for my solar system, and my EV.
> Both have 16 T105s...
> 1. Will a pair of 3.3v zeners in series with a light bulb work for
> 6 volt golf cart deep cycle batteries?
>2. Is there a better choice?
As a rule, you don't need regulators on flooded batteries. You balance them by
deliberate ovecharging. This causes venting and gassing, so you add water
periodically to replace it. The batteries and chargers are designed to expect
this mode of operation.
My little zener-lamp regulators aren't big enough for batteries over 100
amphours. They only handle about 0.5 amps, and you normally charge T-105's at 5
amps finishing current. You'd have to use zeners and light bulbs that were
several times bigger to bypass that much current.
Zener diodes below about 5 volts work very poorly. They have poor accuracy, and
the zener voltage shifts considerably with current and temperature. For a 6v
AGM or gel battery, I'd stick with the 6.2v or 6.8v zener, but just use one of
them per battery.
So, I wouldn't recommend modifying this type of regulator for 6v flooded
batteries.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That really sounds like an urban legend. Perhaps they had a very big crack
under the door, or perhaps there was a vacuum formed in the house? "you can
never leave a car idling near people" makes traffic jams potentially fatal.
Anyway, a hyperbaric chamber is the recommended treatment for CO poisoning. You
don't need a transfusion.
----- Original Message ----
From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 5:10:14 PM
Subject: Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
You can't leave a car idling in the driveway.
You will kill yourself from carbon monooxide.
A whole famile was killed when the idling car OUTSIDE in the driveway
put out enough carbon monoxide to leak under their back door and kill
the whole family inside the house.
People don't realize that you can never leave a car idling near people.
Carbon monoxide is extremely invasive and poisonous.
It seeps everywhere and by the time you feel anything your whole blood
stream is saturated and you are already dead. (Fresh air doesn't help by
then because all you r red blood cells are permanently tied up with the
carbon monoxide molecules and only a blood transfusion gives you any
chance)
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 1:35 pm, Bill Dennis wrote:
> About how much power can a ICE's alternator put out when the engine is
> idling? I ask because we had a 12-hour power outage at our house over
> the weekend, and I was unable to get my backup generator started. I
> did, however, have a 300W inverter that I hooked up to some of my EV
> batteries. It takes only about 300W to operate three of my radiant
> floor heating pumps and keep the main part of the house warm . I was
> wondering, however, if I left our 4Running idling in the driveway and
> ran heavy extension cord to the inverter, if the car could supply
> enough power in a pinch.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roy, is this the SC24 three stage with the regulator disconnect option
that shipped to Portland? Are you using the RD to turn off the Russco
Charger and start the modular chargers? Pretty smart idea.
The regulator disconnect option was intended to open the shunt regulators
for third stage constant current finish charging. But the RD could be
used to start modular chargers for the finish stage constant voltage.
That way each battery would receive an individual finishing charge. Hmm,
I see a new option coming out. A Russco bulk charger with the RD to start
modular chargers without having to purchase the three stage option. And
no power wasting shunt regulators. Brilliant.
Russ Kaufmann
RUSSCO Engineering
The Other PFC Charger With Built In GFCI
http://www.russcoev.com
>
> There doesn't seem to be any more important issue with the operation of an
> EV than maintaining the battery pack in a correct state of charge. This is
> the _one thing_ that even EVers with long experience have trouble with.
> Especially where AGMs are concerned.
>
> I have recently installed what you could term a hybrid charging system in
> an
> EV with 12 brand new Deka Intimidators.
>
> After a few dozen cycles the batteries remain almost perfectly balanced.
>
> A Russco charger is used for bulk charging, up to about 80% full, then is
> switched to individual Soniel 3A chargers.
>
> The price of each Soniel charger is less than the price of a PowerCheq or
> a
> Rudman Reg.
>
> The owner of this EV is pleased that his new batteries are happy and
> healthy.
>
> Also recommended was using the bulk charger to do an occasional
> (monitored)
> overcharge.
>
> Using the Soniels alone to charge takes more than an hour of charging for
> each mile driven :-0
>
> Modular charging appears to work well as a poor man's BMS.
>
> Other than the guy down in FL that cooked his chargers in a closed car in
> direct sunlight, I don't see any major issues with this approach as long
> as
> reasonable temps are maintained.
>
> This particular EV is charged in a cool garage in Portland OR.
>
> Some folks have had Optimas/other AGMs last for many years with modular
> charging.
>
> This approach seems to work well.
>
> Comments? Madman?
> ...
>
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
> NEDRA NW Regional Director
> www.nedra.com
>
> My EV and RE Project Pages-
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
>
> Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win?
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://davevscarl.spaces.live.com/?icid=T001MSN38C07001
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone might actually try my two motor VW setup. The forklift motors are
Prestolite 6 3/4 " Diameter weight 67 lbs and the only figures readable were
48 volts. The motors will be on a plate over and to the sides of the
transmission. My question is with that distance what thickness of plate
should be used for maximum strength and least weight? It'll use gates poly
chain to connect the motors to the input shaft via sprockets. The tensioner
is one motor with all the mounting bolts sloted except one. Lawrence
Rhodes.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The A123 M1 cells are something like 105 W-hr/kg
They are 2.3 A-hrs. The discharge voltage under modest load is about
3.4 volts.
Bigger loads result in lower energy output, of course.
Bill D.
At 03:02 AM 12/19/2006, you wrote:
I was looking at the A123 spec sheet here:
http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/ANR26650M1specs.pdf
Am I reading this all correctly when I pick off the Ah at around 1.8
and a voltage of about 3.2 at 1 amp and divide by the core cell
weight to come up with a Wh/kg of about 82?
(1.8 * 3.2)/70g * 1000g/1kg
Interpolating from the graph, the lower the amperage draw, the
higher the voltage which translates to a higher specific energy. So
if I had used 3.5 volts, Wh/kg would have be around 90?
Peter
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is an MSN Video of a 1913 Waverly Electric at a
Car Show
http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?g=2a7833c4-427f-459e-b91c-7410a95dec32&f=copy&fg=copy
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It IS an urban legend, I challenge you to find a source
for the "car idling in driveway, kills family" story.
The warning has always been that you should not idle the
car inside a confined space, like a garage.
If a bad running engine, producing CO was as lethal as you
said, then mechanics would demand a much higher pay.
Modern cars are actually so clean that you will normally
even have difficulty to build a dangerous level of CO in
your average garage. So, if you plan to commit suicide
(this is no solicitation, just a reasoning to prove a
point from the extreme position) then do not use a
modern car, you are likely to fail.
I am not saying it is healty to breathe in exhaust, but
CO poisoning is only going to happen in confined spaces
with incomplete combustion, like a broken woodstove or
a malfunctioning or incorrectly installed heater in the
same room as where you are.
Oh, and "Get fresh air" is the first thing to do if you
suspect that you are suffering from CO poisoning. See:
http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/coftsht.html
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Storm Connors
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
That really sounds like an urban legend. Perhaps they had a very big crack
under the door, or perhaps there was a vacuum formed in the house? "you can
never leave a car idling near people" makes traffic jams potentially fatal.
Anyway, a hyperbaric chamber is the recommended treatment for CO poisoning.
You don't need a transfusion.
----- Original Message ----
From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 5:10:14 PM
Subject: Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
You can't leave a car idling in the driveway.
You will kill yourself from carbon monooxide.
A whole famile was killed when the idling car OUTSIDE in the driveway
put out enough carbon monoxide to leak under their back door and kill
the whole family inside the house.
People don't realize that you can never leave a car idling near people.
Carbon monoxide is extremely invasive and poisonous.
It seeps everywhere and by the time you feel anything your whole blood
stream is saturated and you are already dead. (Fresh air doesn't help by
then because all you r red blood cells are permanently tied up with the
carbon monoxide molecules and only a blood transfusion gives you any
chance)
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 1:35 pm, Bill Dennis wrote:
> About how much power can a ICE's alternator put out when the engine is
> idling? I ask because we had a 12-hour power outage at our house over
> the weekend, and I was unable to get my backup generator started. I
> did, however, have a 300W inverter that I hooked up to some of my EV
> batteries. It takes only about 300W to operate three of my radiant
> floor heating pumps and keep the main part of the house warm . I was
> wondering, however, if I left our 4Running idling in the driveway and
> ran heavy extension cord to the inverter, if the car could supply
> enough power in a pinch.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You said:
"a little leak in the heater hose that runs behind the Link-10"
You did not tell how much of the water from your heater leak got
into the Link 10 and may have messed it up, or that no water
got in, but your taking the dash apart (why did you not fix
the hose immediately?) could have caused this in some way.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jake Oshins
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 12:12 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Link-10 woes
I don't know quite how to explain this. I own a Sparrow that has a
Link-10 in it. I recently did some work on it (as all Sparrow owners
constantly are) that involved pulling the dash off. When I put it all
back together, I had a little leak in the heater hose that runs behind
the Link-10. I ignored it, as the defroster still worked, which is all
that I really cared about.
But in the last few days, my Link-10 amp-hour counter only counts down.
You probably think I'm crazy when I say this. You probably think that
I'm about to murder my batteries and that my charger is broken and I
just don't know it. But I'm quite certain that power is going back into
my batteries. I've sat in the car and watched independent amp meters,
both on the battery loop and the AC power link. My Link-10 is currently
(har har) reading 70Ah down with a set of 55Ah Optima Yellowtops.
Here's what I've observed:
1) The Link-10 reads voltage pretty accurately when the accelerator
isn't pressed or while I'm charging. I have confirmed this with another
voltmeter.
2) The Link-10 reads voltage poorly when I'm driving, particularly when
the accelerator is pressed lightly. It reads as much as 20% low.
Again, I've confirmed this with a good independent voltmeter.
3) The Link-10 reads instantaneous amps pretty accurately in all
situations. I can see positive or negative current while charging or
driving, or just sitting in my driveway with the heater on.
4) Ah usage is recorded while I drive, at more or less the same rate
that it always has been. It still takes me 14Ah to get home from work.
5) No positive amp-hours are recorded while charging, even though the
Link-10 clearly shows positive amps. It's as if it suddenly thinks that
the Peukert exponent of my batteries is infinite and it's discounting
all the current that goes into them as not counting toward state of
charge.
6) This behavior occurs whether or not I have recently been using the
heater, so I don't think that the temperature of the Link-10 has much to
do with it.
Has anybody ever seen this? Can anybody suggest a way to fix it?
Thanks,
Jake Oshins
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually death by indoor charcoal grill is a common method of suicide in
Hong Kong and has spread through China and even neighboring Asian countries.
Oddly enough, this is recorded as having been "invented" in 1998.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charcoal-burning_suicide
Danny
Cor van de Water wrote:
It IS an urban legend, I challenge you to find a source
for the "car idling in driveway, kills family" story.
The warning has always been that you should not idle the
car inside a confined space, like a garage.
If a bad running engine, producing CO was as lethal as you
said, then mechanics would demand a much higher pay.
Modern cars are actually so clean that you will normally
even have difficulty to build a dangerous level of CO in
your average garage. So, if you plan to commit suicide
(this is no solicitation, just a reasoning to prove a
point from the extreme position) then do not use a
modern car, you are likely to fail.
I am not saying it is healty to breathe in exhaust, but
CO poisoning is only going to happen in confined spaces
with incomplete combustion, like a broken woodstove or
a malfunctioning or incorrectly installed heater in the
same room as where you are.
Oh, and "Get fresh air" is the first thing to do if you
suspect that you are suffering from CO poisoning. See:
http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/coftsht.html
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Storm Connors
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
That really sounds like an urban legend. Perhaps they had a very big crack
under the door, or perhaps there was a vacuum formed in the house? "you can
never leave a car idling near people" makes traffic jams potentially fatal.
Anyway, a hyperbaric chamber is the recommended treatment for CO poisoning.
You don't need a transfusion.
----- Original Message ----
From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 5:10:14 PM
Subject: Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
You can't leave a car idling in the driveway.
You will kill yourself from carbon monooxide.
A whole famile was killed when the idling car OUTSIDE in the driveway
put out enough carbon monoxide to leak under their back door and kill
the whole family inside the house.
People don't realize that you can never leave a car idling near people.
Carbon monoxide is extremely invasive and poisonous.
It seeps everywhere and by the time you feel anything your whole blood
stream is saturated and you are already dead. (Fresh air doesn't help by
then because all you r red blood cells are permanently tied up with the
carbon monoxide molecules and only a blood transfusion gives you any
chance)
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 1:35 pm, Bill Dennis wrote:
About how much power can a ICE's alternator put out when the engine is
idling? I ask because we had a 12-hour power outage at our house over
the weekend, and I was unable to get my backup generator started. I
did, however, have a 300W inverter that I hooked up to some of my EV
batteries. It takes only about 300W to operate three of my radiant
floor heating pumps and keep the main part of the house warm . I was
wondering, however, if I left our 4Running idling in the driveway and
ran heavy extension cord to the inverter, if the car could supply
enough power in a pinch.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day All
At 06:04 PM 19/12/06 -0500, Phil wrote:
It might not be a bad idea to also go for the 1% tolerance diodes. If
you get the cheaper 6.2V and 6.8V diodes that are 5% you
could get combinations that range from 12.35V to 13.65V. A 1 V
regulation difference might run counter to your efforts to keep
them balanced.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
Or, since they're so cheap ( 80 cents apiece in quantities of 10 from D-K)
you could just get a bunch extra ( maybe twice as many as you need) and
then hand select them to be close in value.
Except that that probably won't work, since from one supplier, they're all
likely to be from the one batch, so the zeners are likely to be almost
identical characteristics. If you test them and find that the 6.2s may
range somewhere between 6.31 and 6.38 volts, or some similar small range,
but all offset in the same direction.
All from one batch is often useful, but in this case would not allow
hand-selecting for more ideal values.
hope this helps
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Those calculations look pretty good but it is both better and worse than
that.
Better because it is more of a true capacity. No Pukert.
Take an orbital which is lead acid, claim 35wh/KG
50ah battery at 12V and 18kg is 33wh/kg but most agree this is really
only a 34 ah at the 1 hour rate which is only 23wh/kg. And I can't even
drive for an hour on my pack.
It is worse because these are individual cells and there is gonna be
some overhead in interconnects and packaging and balancing.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "lyle sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 1:36 AM
Subject: Video of 1913 Waverly Electric
> Here is an MSN Video of a 1913 Waverly Electric at a
> Car Show
>
http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?g=2a7833c4-427f-459e-b91c-7410a95dec32&f=copy&fg=copy
>
> Hi Lyle;
Thanks for the link! We have come a long way! I guess the Waverly would
like 84 volts of T-145's and a Zilla?That tiller looks inticeingly simple? I
have driven a newer(Newer is relative?) 1915 Rauch Lang. With all the
batteries aboard, you need arms like King Kong to park it!The tiller shaft
connects DIRECTLY to the spindle of the front wheel! No help here! If you
hit a pothole it would be snatched out of your hands!I tried the R.L. with
only the rear batteri aboard, at first. Another "Feature was the pedal ya
stepped on to back up. It would go just as fast in reverse!Talk about tricky
steering as a stern steerer!Ya sure got alot of looks and waves wafting
along down the street. They WERE dead silent. Controller was familiar, if
you have ever run a trolley of that era? Drum style with handle. Other
quaint features were that you sat Stagecoach style, whynot?, it LOOKED like
a stagecoach?Smaller guyz in front, TWO steering handles so you could take
turns driving!Plushy upholstery, flower vase, EVen.
You could build a cool replica, if you were handy and patient. Those
skinny wheels must roll easy?People wouldn't expect 0-60 in 4 seconds, might
cut you some slack in traffic. You don't swear at a hugh dumptruck, loaded?
Ya just pass him, when ya get the chance. He's doing the best he can at a
million pounds, overloaded!Of course ya would want a modern rack and pinion
steering and steering WHEEL, 4 wheel brakes. Maybe even a Alltrax controller
and a understressed 8 in ch motor?E heat and , of course, the flower
vase<g>!A charming NEV, as you wouldn't want to be cought dead on the
freeway! LIVE ether, for that matter!!Oh yeah, SAFETY glass, with the acres
of glass around you, too! Don't know where you'd put the airbags??But you
wouldn't be able to go faster than your guardian angle could fly, in THIS
one<g>!?
Nostalgicly
Bob
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date: 12/19/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Zener regs revisited
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:08:05 +1100
G'day All
At 06:04 PM 19/12/06 -0500, Phil wrote:
It might not be a bad idea to also go for the 1% tolerance diodes. If
you get the cheaper 6.2V and 6.8V diodes that are 5% you
could get combinations that range from 12.35V to 13.65V. A 1 V
regulation difference might run counter to your efforts to keep
them balanced.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
Or, since they're so cheap ( 80 cents apiece in quantities of 10 from D-K)
you could just get a bunch extra ( maybe twice as many as you need) and
then hand select them to be close in value.
Except that that probably won't work, since from one supplier, they're all
likely to be from the one batch, so the zeners are likely to be almost
identical characteristics. If you test them and find that the 6.2s may
range somewhere between 6.31 and 6.38 volts, or some similar small range,
but all offset in the same direction.
All from one batch is often useful, but in this case would not allow
hand-selecting for more ideal values.
hope this helps
[Technik] James
Hi, James
I agree with you about the diodes from the same batch likely being similar
in value, but I thought the most important thing was that the voltages be
all close to each other - to keep the batteries balanced. I didn't realize
the absolute voltages were also important.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win?
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://davevscarl.spaces.live.com/?icid=T001MSN38C07001
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I put together some of Lee's reg's for my Porsche 912 , and have enjoyed
watching them , seeing them come on as the batterys finnish charging ,, With
the PFC chager at the end of the charge when the blue lignt is flashing , the
reg lights will pluse on and off ,,, guess the charger is trying to mantain a
constant voltage . They do show off clearly which batteries are comming up to
full first . At last My batteries have found a way to talk to me ... I still
would like to build your other ballancer ,,, Can you post the site that has the
curcuite and info .. Are there enough people to do a groupe buy on the boards >
/ ) ,,,, Steve Clunn
>
> From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/12/19 Tue PM 10:29:18 EST
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Zener regs revisited
>
> Phil Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> It might not be a bad idea to also go for the 1% tolerance diodes. If you
> >> get the cheaper 6.2V and 6.8V diodes that are 5% you
> >> could get combinations that range from 12.35V to 13.65V.
>
> From: Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > I worried about that 5% factor but the zeners I got (from Allied
> > Electronics,
> > perhaps?) for less than a quarter apiece turned out to be very closely
> > matched in practice.
>
> Same here. The ones I've bought have all turned out to be very close -- much
> better than 5%. I originally thought that I could match them up in pairs (one
> high and one low) to make the voltages the same for all pairs, but matching
> wasn't necessary.
> --
> Lee Hart
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:22 AM 12/20/2006, Cor van de Water wrote:
You said:
"a little leak in the heater hose that runs behind the Link-10"
You did not tell how much of the water from your heater leak got
into the Link 10 and may have messed it up, or that no water
got in, but your taking the dash apart (why did you not fix
the hose immediately?) could have caused this in some way.
He said it was a Sparrow, which uses hot air heat. Not Water. So
the worst that happens with a leak is that you get a little hot air
in an unexpected place.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill,
Firebird is just up the road from us... So you are going to race the Killacycle
II here? Great, I'll try to get some of our club (small) to come up.
Maybe you and Dennis could get together and give all us EVer's a demo of some
sort... or at least do a show and tell of your cycle and his dragster,
comparing weights, battery, bat v, motor, controller, etc.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
www.TEVA2.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 12:21 AM
Subject: KillaCycle Schedule for 2007 (was: A123 EV pack (was Re: Lithium-ion
batteries & Valence )
> We are planning to race exhibition at the All Harley Drag Racing
> Association event at the Firebird Speedway in Chandler AZ on March
> 31st through April 1st.
>
> We can't afford to transport the bike and trailer there, but I am
> planning to be at the Battery Beach Burn-out on January 26th in Jupiter, FL.
>
> Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All -
I am trying to sell some parts from my failed attempt to convert a 1987
Chevy S-10 to an EV - prefer not to go into the details of same. As such, I
have the following parts for sale:
Netgain Warp 9 motor (I paid $1650 for it new) - purchased through
grassrootsev
Canev adaptor including taperlock hub (paid about $800 - currently mounted
to the Warp 9 motor)
Motor mount (for ADC 9 - think I paid $175) - it is not entirely compatible
with the Warp 9 - found that out the hard way.
I realize that I will not be able to get what I paid for these items new.
I'd be happy with half at this point plus shipping (for the lot - packing
and shipping costs look they will run about $350 maximum depending on where
it is going), which would probably be a problem considering the weight of
the items (esp. the motor) and the fact that I obviously have unpackaged the
motor.
I'm located in Huntsville, AL - pickup would be the ideal solution.
Any thoughts you might have on moving these items would be appreciated.
Hopefully they can be put toward a successful project. I would prefer if
you kept the responses (if there are any) focused on the selling of the
items and not the failure of the project. I feel bad enough about that
already.....
Mike
_________________________________________________________________
Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping
Sales & Deals
http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200639
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought this one may have merit ??
http://www.preparedness1.com/geo_metro.htm
Any others ??
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 12:10 PM
Subject: Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
> I thought this one may have merit ??
> http://www.preparedness1.com/geo_metro.htm
>
> Any others ??
>
> You Bet! Wish it was closer to the Least Coast. I know guyz in CT that
would probably snap this one up?For So Cal, Az, Fla?Long Island, and other
outlandish ,flat places? Hell!Go for it! No fireball, but a REAL car you
could EVen drive a few mile burst on the freeway to get across town.AND the
#$%@ Parts are at EVery Auto Zone!
My Two Watts worth.
Bob
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date: 12/19/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bikes only at the AHDRA events.
It is quite possible that KillaCycle is the only non-Harley (or at
least the only non-V-twin) that has appeared at with the All Harley
Drag Racing Association events. I could easily be wrong, however.
Come out to the track and we'd be happy to show you anything you want
to see on the KillaCycle. We'll take off all the covers and you can
take pictures, measurements, etc. (No souvenirs, please. :-) ) It
would be great if someone else were to build a duplicate of the
KillaCycle so we could have some competition.
I've heard a rumor that someone is constructing a radio-controlled
scale model of the KillaCycle. If it's true, we'd love to race it. :-)
Bill Dube'
At 08:53 AM 12/20/2006, you wrote:
Bill,
Firebird is just up the road from us... So you are going to race the
Killacycle II here? Great, I'll try to get some of our club (small)
to come up.
Maybe you and Dennis could get together and give all us EVer's a
demo of some sort... or at least do a show and tell of your cycle
and his dragster, comparing weights, battery, bat v, motor, controller, etc.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
www.TEVA2.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 12:21 AM
Subject: KillaCycle Schedule for 2007 (was: A123 EV pack (was Re:
Lithium-ion batteries & Valence )
> We are planning to race exhibition at the All Harley Drag Racing
> Association event at the Firebird Speedway in Chandler AZ on March
> 31st through April 1st.
>
> We can't afford to transport the bike and trailer there, but I am
> planning to be at the Battery Beach Burn-out on January 26th in
Jupiter, FL.
>
> Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul G. wrote:
5 watt zener diodes... On Semiconductor 1N5342BG... This is a pretty
small package for 5 watts, only .130-.145 inch diameter. Is that
large enough?
Like power transistors, power zeners don't come with heatsinks. They
expect YOU to add the heatsink!
I was wondering if anyone who has built these has input before I
order some better quality 8 and 10 gauge terminals.
These regulators depend on the size of the ring terminal and the battery
terminal they are bolted to for their heatsinking. The zener will
overheat if you don't heatsink it to at least a few square inches of
metal. I use a "heavy duty" ring terminal for a #6 wire, with a 5/16"
bolt hole, made from thick-walled copper tubing. This gets bolted to a
battery's flag terminal or automotive post terminal.
is there a preferred thermally conductive epoxy to use and method
of getting it in there?
Thermally conductive epoxy is sold by Mouser and other electronics
distributors. It is basically just regular old epoxy with metal or
silica dust mixed in to improve heat conduction. You could use JB Weld
in a pinch.
I drill a hole in the lug, insert the zener, solder it, solder the lead
wire on, slide a piece of heat shrink tubing over it, pour in the epoxy,
and then shrink the tubing. With practice, you can get the "right"
amount of epoxy so it just fills the space.
It looks like a job for a powerful soldering iron
That would work; but I have a solder pot. Much quicker when you have to
make a bunch of them!
For the bulb I'm eyeing the 43 bulb (such as Mouser part number
606-CM43) a 2.5 volt, 0.5 amp bulb
That's equivalent to the #PR2 I use.
with a socket available (Mouser number 606-5100-822).
The socket costs more than the bulb, and is probably your least reliable
part.
I have also been considering adding a red LED with 47 ohm resistor
in series (that value for two 6.8v zeners) parallel across each
bulb as a kind of pay attention *now* point.
You could; but if you're using LEDs, replace the light bulbs with power
resistors. It won't work as well, but now it's "high tech". :-)
I'm still contemplating between using 2, 6.8v zener, a 6.2 and 6.8v
zener, or 2, 6.2v zener and diode...
You basically have to decide what voltage you want to clamp your
batteries at. Then, pick the zeners accordingly.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
