EV Digest 6229
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: two motors on a VW bug. What thickness for the plate?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: regen: SepEx motors availability /parallel string charging?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Zener regs revisited
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: [EV] Re: Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: [EV] Re: Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Zebra Purchase Warning
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery powered scope for sale.
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Battery powered scope for sale.
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Zener regs revisited
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Battery Advice PLEASE
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I put together some of Lee's reg's for my Porsche 912, and have
enjoyed watching them... With the PFC charger at the end of the
charge when the blue light is flashing, the reg lights will pulse
on and off...
That's odd. I wonder if the PFC is having trouble regulating voltage?
I still would like to build your other balancer. Can you post the
site that has the circuit and info.
It's at http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/balancerland/intro.htm
Are there enough people to do a group buy on the boards?
Yes, I have enough now -- I'm the delaying factor. I get some free time
and make some progress, then get busy with other work. At the moment I'm
back in the too-many-other-things-to-do situation. I'll post details on
the EV list when I'm ready to order.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Someone might actually try my two motor VW setup. The forklift motors are
Prestolite 6 3/4 " Diameter weight 67 lbs and the only figures readable were
48 volts. The motors will be on a plate over and to the sides of the
transmission. My question is with that distance what thickness of plate
should be used for maximum strength and least weight? It'll use gates poly
chain to connect the motors to the input shaft via sprockets. The tensioner
is one motor with all the mounting bolts sloted except one. Lawrence
Rhodes.
It depends on how much torque the motors produce. The more torque, the
thicker the plate needs to be.
How are you planning to support the transmission shaft? The VW
transmission shaft doesn't have a bearing, and depends on the ICE's
crankshaft for support.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Myers wrote:
in a possibly unwise and futile hunt for DC regen, I found a DC / SepEx
controller with regen, 96 volt max
Cool! What controller did you find? I know a couple guys with Soleq EVs
that need sepex controllers.
but can only find ADC SepEx motors that go to 72 volts. Anyone know
some other source of SepEx motors?
There's nothing special about a motor that limits its voltage. The
nameplate just gives one suggested operating point. With care, they can
be used at 2 or even 3 times their rated voltage. The main issues in
running a brushed DC motor at higher than rated voltage are:
- arcing gets gradually worse
- rpm gets proportionally higher
- shunt fields run hotter
however imprudent and foolish such a design may be...
It doesn't sound foolish at all! It;s a bit harder than a plain old
series motor and controller, but it can also work better.
Twin strings of AGMs aren't magic, either. It just takes a little more
work, and attention to detail. My little zener-lamp regulators are about
the minimum if you don't want to buy new batteries every year or two.
But of course you can go with better (and more expensive) systems, too.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Phil Marino wrote:
voltages close to each other - to keep the batteries balanced.
I didn't realize the absolute voltages were also important.
No; the absolute voltage is not particularly important. These regulators
don't abruptly come on at a precise voltage; they gradually come on as
the voltage gradually rises.
When you're not charging, they don't do anything, so the threshold
doesn't matter (unless you get it so low that they conduct even at 0
charging current).
When you *are* charging, they shunt more and more current as each
battery's voltage rises. This causes the most-charged (highest-voltage)
batteries to get fewer amphours. Your charger should still be delivering
a bit more current than the maximum these regulators can shunt. So all
battery voltages will still rise until your charger's shutoff voltage
and current conditions are met.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
is there a preferred thermally conductive epoxy to use and method
of getting it in there?
Thermally conductive epoxy is sold by Mouser and other electronics
distributors. It is basically just regular old epoxy with metal or
silica dust mixed in to improve heat conduction. You could use JB Weld
in a pinch.
I drill a hole in the lug, insert the zener, solder it, solder the lead
wire on, slide a piece of heat shrink tubing over it, pour in the epoxy,
and then shrink the tubing. With practice, you can get the "right"
amount of epoxy so it just fills the space.
Be careful, metal dust mixed in will also make it conductive of electricity
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
About how much power can a ICE's alternator put out when the engine is
idling? I ask because we had a 12-hour power outage at our house over
the weekend, and I was unable to get my backup generator started. I
did, however, have a 300W inverter that I hooked up to some of my EV
batteries. It takes only about 300W to operate three of my radiant
floor heating pumps and keep the main part of the house warm . I was
wondering, however, if I left our 4Running idling in the driveway and
ran heavy extension cord to the inverter, if the car could supply
enough power in a pinch.
Car alternators are rated by their peak output current. A "60 amp"
alternator can deliver 60 amps. But due to their low efficiency, they
heat up fast, especially at low rpm when their fan works poorly.
I'd guess you can get 1/4th of rated current at idle, into a fully
charged battery. Into a dead battery whose voltage is much lower, you
many get as much as 1/2 the alternator's rated output.
As RPM goes up, the output will of course rise. But alternators need a
tremendous amount of cooling to maintain their output for very long.
You're not likely to get that much airflow parked in a driveway.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark McCurdy wrote:
Be careful, metal dust mixed in will also make it conductive of
electricity.
Thanks for the warning. The way these are built, the free end of the
zener is outside the lug. There is only 7v across the zener. I haven't
been able to get enough metal dust into an epoxy to actually make it
conductive, though I'm sure it's possible.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"The way these are built" It sure would be nice to have a picture showing how
you built them. I just recently heard about drilling a hole in the lug, the
free end of the zener outside the lug... and I built two of them. If we sent
you a digital camera, would you post a picture somewhere?
So far not any offers on my Hart reg parts. Even ridiculous offers
entertained. :-)
storm
----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 1:39:58 PM
Subject: Re: Zener regs revisited
Mark McCurdy wrote:
> Be careful, metal dust mixed in will also make it conductive of
> electricity.
Thanks for the warning. The way these are built, the free end of the
zener is outside the lug. There is only 7v across the zener. I haven't
been able to get enough metal dust into an epoxy to actually make it
conductive, though I'm sure it's possible.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Car alternators are rated by their peak output current. A "60 amp"
> alternator can deliver 60 amps. But due to their low efficiency, they
> heat up fast, especially at low rpm when their fan works poorly.
Yeah.
Better to use a permanent magnet motor like the Leeson 12/24v 1.5HP DC
brushmotors that have been seen on occasion on the surplus
market---SurplusCenter had them for about $120 at one time.
We tried 3 or 4 auto alternators trying to charge batteries on a 40ft
steamboat I helped build. We hoped to at least be able to pump 40amps into
the batteries as the system used about 55amps full tilt and probably 34amps
continuous.
Well, neither a 60amp, nor a 100amp alternator would cut it even though we
know we were spinning them around 1800RPM. Same story for a 60amp "low
speed" alternator.
The BEST any of these would offer was about 16-18amps into the battery bank
of 8 paralleled marine batteries. And at that, the alternators would run
quite warm.
Then my buddy invested over $300 in one of those permanent magnet
alternators (SC12) made and/or distributed by Thermodyne Systems (DON'T DEAL
with them---their online specs lie and they will NOT refund your product
even if you simply try it once!!!). While the permag alternator looked nice
and the cogging felt pretty dang cool, it too would only put out at best,
20-22amps and the alternator got EXTREMELY HOT. This, despite the claims
online by Thermodyne that these alternators are "low speed", high efficiency
and love to dish out current----wrong. At 20amps, the SC12 unit was about
at its half-power point...i.e. 50% efficient! Thermodyne wouldn't take the
unit back despite its claims not standing up to the product performance.
Finally, for $120, we picked up one of the Leeson permag DC motors. With
this motor we were finally talking power and efficiency. I rigged it up
without diodes, directly thru a fuse, current shunt and a master switch.
Flip the switch and the motor turns with the 12-13v applied to it from the
batteries. The motor drives the little steam engine. Open steam valve,
slowly increasing the flow. Watch the current meter go from negative, to
zero, then positive, 10amps, 20amps, etc. We were able to get 34amps charge
current out of the generator to charge the batteries. I expected more, but
the little steam engine is working as hard as it can with the arrangement.
The good thing is that the motor/generator gets only mildly warm. We're
probably only losing 70-90 watts while delivering 400watts---i.e. about
80-85% efficient.
In alternatorland, to come close to this level of efficiency, you need
either very high RPMs, or you need to spend several hundred dollars for a
Bosch or equivalent.
-Myles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My father tried that once...the carburetor-ed Monte Carlo got lots of
carbon in the cylinders from the low RPM and wouldn't start again.
Maybe if there was a way to increase the RPM it would be better.
Where does your heat come from, Bill? (Where do the pumps take it
from?) I'm looking at implementing radiant heating someday.
- Arthur
On Wed, 2006-12-20 at 12:32 -0600, Lee Hart wrote:
> Bill Dennis wrote:
> > About how much power can a ICE's alternator put out when the engine is
> > idling? I ask because we had a 12-hour power outage at our house over
> > the weekend, and I was unable to get my backup generator started. I
> > did, however, have a 300W inverter that I hooked up to some of my EV
> > batteries. It takes only about 300W to operate three of my radiant
> > floor heating pumps and keep the main part of the house warm . I was
> > wondering, however, if I left our 4Running idling in the driveway and
> > ran heavy extension cord to the inverter, if the car could supply
> > enough power in a pinch.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the Keystone Flyer is a much better value for the dollar than the
Xebra. It has two wheel drive as opposed to one. It has front and rear
wipers, heater and stereo. Most of all it looks a heck of as lot better.
http://www.keystonecarts.com/KeystoneFlyerSpecs.html
http://www.keystonecarts.com/KeystoneFlyerGallery.html
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 9:10 AM
Subject: Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
I thought this one may have merit ??
http://www.preparedness1.com/geo_metro.htm
Any others ??
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12/19/2006
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- Begin Message ---
is there a rule that they have to be 3 wheel?
On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 11:14:09AM -0800, Roderick Wilde wrote:
> I think the Keystone Flyer is a much better value for the dollar than the
> Xebra. It has two wheel drive as opposed to one. It has front and rear
> wipers, heater and stereo. Most of all it looks a heck of as lot better.
> http://www.keystonecarts.com/KeystoneFlyerSpecs.html
> http://www.keystonecarts.com/KeystoneFlyerGallery.html
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 9:10 AM
> Subject: [EV] Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
>
>
> >I thought this one may have merit ??
> >http://www.preparedness1.com/geo_metro.htm
> >
> >Any others ??
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >No virus found in this incoming message.
> >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date:
> >12/19/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date: 12/19/2006
--
Eduardo K. | Some say it's forgive and forget.
http://www.carfun.cl | I say forget about forgiving just accept.
http://e.nn.cl | And get the hell out of town.
| Minnie Driver, Grosse Point Blank
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is no rule. The question was asked as to what was available as an
alternative to a Xebra for under $10K so I would assume anything goes as
long as it is electric transportation.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eduardo Kaftanski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [EV] Re: Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
is there a rule that they have to be 3 wheel?
On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 11:14:09AM -0800, Roderick Wilde wrote:
I think the Keystone Flyer is a much better value for the dollar than the
Xebra. It has two wheel drive as opposed to one. It has front and rear
wipers, heater and stereo. Most of all it looks a heck of as lot better.
http://www.keystonecarts.com/KeystoneFlyerSpecs.html
http://www.keystonecarts.com/KeystoneFlyerGallery.html
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 9:10 AM
Subject: [EV] Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
>I thought this one may have merit ??
>http://www.preparedness1.com/geo_metro.htm
>
>Any others ??
>
>
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date:
>12/19/2006
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date:
12/19/2006
--
Eduardo K. | Some say it's forgive and forget.
http://www.carfun.cl | I say forget about forgiving just accept.
http://e.nn.cl | And get the hell out of town.
| Minnie Driver, Grosse Point
Blank
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date:
12/19/2006
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date: 12/19/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wanted to give a warning to all who are considering the purchase of
a Zebra. I have been contemplating this post but felt it would be in
the best interest to bring it to the attention of those interested to
provide them some more information on their potential purchase
decision. Without being too specific on the list ( you may contact me
off list) I can tell you that there is a good possibility of the DOT
prohibiting the sale of this vehicle in the future and also de-
classifying any existing models as being registered as a motorcycle
as it does not meet the requirements just because it has three
wheels. The various issues here and others I have not mentioned could
result in a vehicle that will not be able to be insured or
registered. I have no personal interest in this matter in either
direction but I can not sit back without informing list members that
a purchase of this vehicle could be potentially risky. You may
contact me directly only if you are SERIOUSLY contemplating a
purchase and I will give you some further information.
M
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't buy this at all.
CO is dangerous..But not that scarry..
Even reasonable air flow is all you need.
I have run all sorts of power equipment and Had no issues, Unless it was in
a confined place with zero airflow.
Clearly it matters how large the combustion is. Smoke of all sorts has CO in
it. Smokey camp fires, Brush fires, and such, But the airflow is sufficient.
I don't know how many times I have gotten a headache from various smoke and
flames and engines, The only scarrey thing was a large trash pump in a
basment 32 years ago In a hurricane in Pennsylviana.
If you can smell exhaust, to be aware is the point. No sleeping allowed
Hey I started this thread.. and now we are in the Panic and Fear compition.
Bull, everybody who works with power equipment knows what they can and can't
get away with.
AND your assement of what to do with a CO victim is FLAT ASS WRONG!
You VERY quickly get them to fresh air.
Monitor vital signs,
Look for Blue lips or any other funny skin colors,
THEN call 911.
Note here get to fresh air BEFORE calling 911.
The advanced resquer administers 02 at the Fastest rate possible and Calls
for support and transport.
After that he looks out for his own and other Resquers saftey and shuts off
the CO source and or leaves the sean to not become a victim yourself.
You can take a LOT of CO and still function if you plain have to in dire
circumstances.
You have to be personally aware of the signs and effects on your own body.
It's not a simple death sentace... it prudence and experience.
Your body DOES exchange the CO for C02 and 02 if it has time. It's the time
factor that most don't know about.
It's hours not minutes, and you feel sick for the most part of a day.
It takes hours in a HyperBaric chamber with high O2 levels, that we all hear
about, This is a life saver for sure. It saves the other wise Dead.
The walking Zombies.. just get them to fresh air... and help them recover.
They will.. if they have not had too much.
I have a just a tad of First Aid and training.. and years of working with
power equipment.. and a couple of close calls in my early Teens.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
> Needless to say you ca't leave a car idling inside the carport either.
> That's even worse but I assume people already know that.
>
>
> You can't leave a car idling in the driveway.
> You will kill yourself from carbon monooxide.
>
> A whole famile was killed when the idling car OUTSIDE in the driveway
> put out enough carbon monoxide to leak under their back door and kill
> the whole family inside the house.
>
> People don't realize that you can never leave a car idling near people.
> Carbon monoxide is extremely invasive and poisonous.
> It seeps everywhere and by the time you feel anything your whole blood
> stream is saturated and you are already dead. (Fresh air doesn't help by
> then because all you r red blood cells are permanently tied up with the
> carbon monoxide molecules and only a blood transfusion gives you any
> chance)
>
>
>
> On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 1:35 pm, Bill Dennis wrote:
> > About how much power can a ICE's alternator put out when the engine is
> > idling? I ask because we had a 12-hour power outage at our house over
> > the weekend, and I was unable to get my backup generator started. I
> > did, however, have a 300W inverter that I hooked up to some of my EV
> > batteries. It takes only about 300W to operate three of my radiant
> > floor heating pumps and keep the main part of the house warm . I was
> > wondering, however, if I left our 4Running idling in the driveway and
> > ran heavy extension cord to the inverter, if the car could supply
> > enough power in a pinch.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Bill Dennis
>
>
> www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
> and the melting poles.
>
> www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Look for Blue lips or any other funny skin colors,
You won't get blue lips with Carbon Monoxide. The reason it CAN be so
dangerous is that it binds to hemoglobin in preference to Oxygen and makes
blood look very well oxygenated. Add to that the fact that the body uses
unsaturated hemaglobin first (which is why hyperventilation can actually
lead to your brain being oxygen starved), making it a slow process to flush
CO from the body.
Paul Compton
www.evguru.co.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.bvs.org.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Alternatively, you can use your normal scope in differential mode, or
use an isolated oscilloscope (that plugs into the wall). Of course,
having a (power) cordless system for working on a car is in itself useful.
Isolated scopes came to my attention the first time I tried to
troubleshoot the floating (intermediate voltage) switching power supply
on a Tektronix spectrum analyzer.
Mike Phillips wrote:
Hi All,
This scope is brand new and perfect for safely working on EV's and
hybrids. You can run it on it's build in battery pack for hours. It
makes troubleshooting your vehicle very helpful. I have two battery
powered scopes and decided to part with one of them via Ebay. They have
been a huge help! 270070843001 is the Ebay auction number.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<http://www.zelscope.com/>
It's inexpensive software that runs on a laptop and uses the microphone inputs
for input. It's only good for audio frequencies, but that is fast enough for
looking at many things.
----- Original Message ----
From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 12:43:21 PM
Subject: Re: Battery powered scope for sale.
Alternatively, you can use your normal scope in differential mode, or
use an isolated oscilloscope (that plugs into the wall). Of course,
having a (power) cordless system for working on a car is in itself useful.
Isolated scopes came to my attention the first time I tried to
troubleshoot the floating (intermediate voltage) switching power supply
on a Tektronix spectrum analyzer.
Mike Phillips wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> This scope is brand new and perfect for safely working on EV's and
> hybrids. You can run it on it's build in battery pack for hours. It
> makes troubleshooting your vehicle very helpful. I have two battery
> powered scopes and decided to part with one of them via Ebay. They have
> been a huge help! 270070843001 is the Ebay auction number.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Storm Connors wrote:
"The way these are built..." It sure would be nice to have a
picture showing how you built them.
I have a digital camera that I bought a year or so ago. But I haven't
figured out how to do anything useful with it. All the pictures I've
ever taken are still stuck inside it. The software that came with it
crashes my computers.
Even in cases where I do have a picture of something, I've never figured
out how to send it to anyone.
Also, I don't have a color printer, so I can't print the images anyway.
I bought one a few years ago, but it too turned out to be useless. It
only prints B/W, or shades of cyan or magenta. A new ink cartridge
didn't help.
I find computers to be mostly incredibly effective time wasters.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And another thing.
Co is completely orderless.
Your advice is EXCATLY the wrong thing to say and exactly why so many
people tragically die.
YOU GET NO WAENING. You can't RUn for fresh air when you feel woozy.
You don't have any red blood cells left at that pont and even if you got
to fresh air you would still suffacate because you don't have any red
blood cells left to take up the oxygen.
AND YOU DON'T FEEL WOOZY. You got a headache from some other componenets
of the smoke not the co.
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 3:17 pm, Rich Rudman wrote:
I don't buy this at all.
CO is dangerous..But not that scarry..
Even reasonable air flow is all you need.
I have run all sorts of power equipment and Had no issues, Unless it
was in
a confined place with zero airflow.
Clearly it matters how large the combustion is. Smoke of all sorts has
CO in
it. Smokey camp fires, Brush fires, and such, But the airflow is
sufficient.
I don't know how many times I have gotten a headache from various smoke
and
flames and engines, The only scarrey thing was a large trash pump in a
basment 32 years ago In a hurricane in Pennsylviana.
If you can smell exhaust, to be aware is the point. No sleeping
allowed
Hey I started this thread.. and now we are in the Panic and Fear
compition.
Bull, everybody who works with power equipment knows what they can and
can't
get away with.
AND your assement of what to do with a CO victim is FLAT ASS WRONG!
You VERY quickly get them to fresh air.
Monitor vital signs,
Look for Blue lips or any other funny skin colors,
THEN call 911.
Note here get to fresh air BEFORE calling 911.
The advanced resquer administers 02 at the Fastest rate possible and
Calls
for support and transport.
After that he looks out for his own and other Resquers saftey and shuts
off
the CO source and or leaves the sean to not become a victim yourself.
You can take a LOT of CO and still function if you plain have to in
dire
circumstances.
You have to be personally aware of the signs and effects on your own
body.
It's not a simple death sentace... it prudence and experience.
Your body DOES exchange the CO for C02 and 02 if it has time. It's the
time
factor that most don't know about.
It's hours not minutes, and you feel sick for the most part of a day.
It takes hours in a HyperBaric chamber with high O2 levels, that we all
hear
about, This is a life saver for sure. It saves the other wise Dead.
The walking Zombies.. just get them to fresh air... and help them
recover.
They will.. if they have not had too much.
I have a just a tad of First Aid and training.. and years of working
with
power equipment.. and a couple of close calls in my early Teens.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
Needless to say you ca't leave a car idling inside the carport either.
That's even worse but I assume people already know that.
You can't leave a car idling in the driveway.
You will kill yourself from carbon monooxide.
A whole famile was killed when the idling car OUTSIDE in the driveway
put out enough carbon monoxide to leak under their back door and kill
the whole family inside the house.
People don't realize that you can never leave a car idling near
people.
Carbon monoxide is extremely invasive and poisonous.
It seeps everywhere and by the time you feel anything your whole blood
stream is saturated and you are already dead. (Fresh air doesn't help
by
then because all you r red blood cells are permanently tied up with
the
carbon monoxide molecules and only a blood transfusion gives you any
chance)
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 1:35 pm, Bill Dennis wrote:
> About how much power can a ICE's alternator put out when the engine
is
> idling? I ask because we had a 12-hour power outage at our house
over
> the weekend, and I was unable to get my backup generator started. I
> did, however, have a 300W inverter that I hooked up to some of my
EV
> batteries. It takes only about 300W to operate three of my radiant
> floor heating pumps and keep the main part of the house warm . I
was
> wondering, however, if I left our 4Running idling in the driveway
and
> ran heavy extension cord to the inverter, if the car could supply
> enough power in a pinch.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From a well-written and well-referenced Wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning
"Prolonged exposure to fresh air (or pure oxygen) is required for the
CO-tainted hemoglobin (carboxyhaemoglobin) to clear. Carbon monoxide
detectors for homes are now readily available and are increasingly being
required by municipal building codes." (My parents have at least two
detectors in the home.)
"Hemoglobin acquires a bright red colour when converted to
carboxyhemoglobin, so a casualty of CO poisoning is described in
textbooks as looking pink-cheeked and healthy. However, this "classic"
cherry-red appearance is very uncommon - it has only been noted in 2% of
cases so care should be taken not to overlook the diagnosis even if this
colour is not present." (So the blue color of blood is only in the lack
of oxygen, such as in drowning.)
"- 35 ppm (0.0035%) Headache and dizziness within six to eight hours of
constant exposure.
- 100 ppm (0.01%) Slight headache in two to three hours.
- 200 ppm (0.02%) Slight headache within two to three hours.
- 400 ppm (0.04%) Frontal headache within one to two hours.
- 800 ppm (0.08%) Dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 minutes.
Insensible within two hours.
- 1,600 ppm (0.16%) Headache, dizziness, and nausea within 20 minutes.
Death in less than two hours.
- 3,200 ppm (0.32%) Headache, dizziness and nausea in five to ten
minutes. Death within 30 minutes.
- 6,400 ppm (0.64%) Headache and dizziness in one to two minutes. Death
in less than 20 minutes.
- 12,800 ppm (1.28%) Death in less than three minutes."
"A significant controversy in the medical literature is whether or not
hyperbaric oxygen actually offers any extra benefits over normal high
flow oxygen in terms of increased survival or improved long term
outcomes...The authors suggested a large, well designed, externally
audited, multicentre trial to compare normal oxygen with hyperbaric
oxygen."
- Arthur
On Wed, 2006-12-20 at 12:59 -0800, GWMobile wrote:
> And another thing.
> Co is completely orderless.
>
> Your advice is EXCATLY the wrong thing to say and exactly why so many
> people tragically die.
>
> YOU GET NO WAENING. You can't RUn for fresh air when you feel woozy.
>
> You don't have any red blood cells left at that pont and even if you got
> to fresh air you would still suffacate because you don't have any red
> blood cells left to take up the oxygen.
>
> AND YOU DON'T FEEL WOOZY. You got a headache from some other componenets
> of the smoke not the co.
>
>
> On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 3:17 pm, Rich Rudman wrote:
> > I don't buy this at all.
> >
> > CO is dangerous..But not that scarry..
> >
> > Even reasonable air flow is all you need.
> > I have run all sorts of power equipment and Had no issues, Unless it
> > was in
> > a confined place with zero airflow.
> >
> > Clearly it matters how large the combustion is. Smoke of all sorts has
> > CO in
> > it. Smokey camp fires, Brush fires, and such, But the airflow is
> > sufficient.
> > I don't know how many times I have gotten a headache from various smoke
> > and
> > flames and engines, The only scarrey thing was a large trash pump in a
> > basment 32 years ago In a hurricane in Pennsylviana.
> >
> > If you can smell exhaust, to be aware is the point. No sleeping
> > allowed
> >
> > Hey I started this thread.. and now we are in the Panic and Fear
> > compition.
> > Bull, everybody who works with power equipment knows what they can and
> > can't
> > get away with.
> >
> > AND your assement of what to do with a CO victim is FLAT ASS WRONG!
> >
> > You VERY quickly get them to fresh air.
> > Monitor vital signs,
> > Look for Blue lips or any other funny skin colors,
> > THEN call 911.
> > Note here get to fresh air BEFORE calling 911.
> >
> > The advanced resquer administers 02 at the Fastest rate possible and
> > Calls
> > for support and transport.
> > After that he looks out for his own and other Resquers saftey and shuts
> > off
> > the CO source and or leaves the sean to not become a victim yourself.
> >
> > You can take a LOT of CO and still function if you plain have to in
> > dire
> > circumstances.
> > You have to be personally aware of the signs and effects on your own
> > body.
> >
> > It's not a simple death sentace... it prudence and experience.
> >
> > Your body DOES exchange the CO for C02 and 02 if it has time. It's the
> > time
> > factor that most don't know about.
> > It's hours not minutes, and you feel sick for the most part of a day.
> > It takes hours in a HyperBaric chamber with high O2 levels, that we all
> > hear
> > about, This is a life saver for sure. It saves the other wise Dead.
> >
> > The walking Zombies.. just get them to fresh air... and help them
> > recover.
> > They will.. if they have not had too much.
> >
> > I have a just a tad of First Aid and training.. and years of working
> > with
> > power equipment.. and a couple of close calls in my early Teens.
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As to computers being time wasters, no argument here. If your camera has a
removable memory card, just hook a card reader on a USB port. If you are using
Win XP, it will take over from there. The card becomes another disc drive. You
can view as thumbnails or filmstrip. Drag to another folder or R click and
send it via email. Upload to Snapfish, Kodak gallery, Shutterfly, or Picasa if
you want to share with others. These sites also make good prints for less than
the paper and ink will cost you to print yourself.
This will take less time than creating the Ascii diagrams you've made famous.
Thanks,
storm
----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 3:55:04 PM
Subject: Re: Zener regs revisited
Storm Connors wrote:
> "The way these are built..." It sure would be nice to have a
> picture showing how you built them.
I have a digital camera that I bought a year or so ago. But I haven't
figured out how to do anything useful with it. All the pictures I've
ever taken are still stuck inside it. The software that came with it
crashes my computers.
Even in cases where I do have a picture of something, I've never figured
out how to send it to anyone.
Also, I don't have a color printer, so I can't print the images anyway.
I bought one a few years ago, but it too turned out to be useless. It
only prints B/W, or shades of cyan or magenta. A new ink cartridge
didn't help.
I find computers to be mostly incredibly effective time wasters.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:42 PM 12/20/2006, Storm Connors wrote:
As to computers being time wasters, no argument here. If your camera
has a removable memory card, just hook a card reader on a USB port.
If you are using Win XP, it will take over from there. The card
becomes another disc drive.
Except that Lee is probably running some truly ancient OS. Possibly
CP/M or Windows 2.14...
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Russ Kaufmann wrote:
Roy, is this the SC24 three stage with the regulator disconnect option
that shipped to Portland? Are you using the RD to turn off the Russco
Charger and start the modular chargers? Pretty smart idea.
The regulator disconnect option was intended to open the shunt regulators
for third stage constant current finish charging. But the RD could be
used to start modular chargers for the finish stage constant voltage.
That way each battery would receive an individual finishing charge. Hmm,
I see a new option coming out. A Russco bulk charger with the RD to start
modular chargers without having to purchase the three stage option. And
no power wasting shunt regulators. Brilliant.
Russ Kaufmann
No Russ.
You are the one that is brilliant, I am just a hack. This did not occur to
me.
I will present this option to the vehicle owner.
Thanks!
Roy
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Director
www.nedra.com
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
