EV Digest 6231
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Zebra Purchase Warning
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Zener regs revisited
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: two motors on a VW bug. What thickness for the plate?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 3 Wheelers stability issues
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: OT - 1.3 Million WO Electricity - now NO GAS
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Curtis controller 24-36V 275A on Ebay
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Zener regs revisited
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: OT - CO poisoning
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) 2 differing floodie philosophies on initial charges
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: 2 differing floodie philosophies on initial charges
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Used Batteries WAS Re: [BULK] RE: If I only need a 5 mile range ...
re...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) European EV cars pulling ahead ?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: [EV] European EV cars pulling ahead ?
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) OT: Power failure
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Zebra Purchase Warning
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Battery Advice PLEASE
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Zebra Purchase Warning
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Zebra Purchase Warning
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This info was not meant to be an open discussion, as I mentioned in
the post If you are contemplating the purchase of this vehicle you
may contact me off list as the issue relates to this model specifically.
Thanks
M
On Dec 20, 2006, at 4:50 PM, jerryd wrote:
Hi Mark and All,
First thing is states make up these laws
for each state and the FDot has very loose laws now, basicly
anything with 3 wheels is a MC. Then from there states add
more regs if they want, Fla follows the FedDOT mostly and
almost anything goes as long as it goes 50 mph, has lights,
horns and brakes and stuff isn't falling off it. The 50 mph
minimum interstate speed, up from 40 mph in Fla and maybe
FedDOT recently which is where the Zebra ZAP , ect could hit
problems making them NEV's since that's really what they are
under US law and they will not be safe at 50mph if one tries
to increase their speeds. Some states have 1500 lb limits,
Cal, some requires saddle seats, Texas and some like Ct
don't allow 2f1r types at all but almost all states do.
I'd like to hear as many on this list just
what you heard Mark, which state or fed, off list or
preferably on.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
GWMobile wrote:
Whooaaa
Changing the 3 wheel rule would be HUGE.
I can only assume some auto company lobbiests are hard at
work trying to stop a budding home builder industry in
its tracks.
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 3:17 pm, MARK DUTKO wrote:
I wanted to give a warning to all who are considering
the purchase of a Zebra. I have been contemplating
this post but felt it would be in the best interest to
bring it to the attention of those interested to
provide them some more information on their potential
purchase decision. Without being too specific on the
list ( you may contact me off list) I can tell you
that there is a good possibility of the DOT
prohibiting the sale of this vehicle in the future and also
de- classifying any existing models as being registered
as a motorcycle as it does not meet the requirements
just because it has three wheels. The various issues
here and others I have not mentioned could result in a
vehicle that will not be able to be insured or
registered. I have no personal interest in this matter in
either direction but I can not sit back without
informing list members that a purchase of this vehicle
could be potentially risky. You may contact me
directly only if you are SERIOUSLY contemplating a
purchase and I will give you some further information.
M
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul G. (that's me) wrote:
is there a preferred thermally conductive epoxy to use and method
of getting it in there?
Lee Hart wrote:
Thermally conductive epoxy is sold by Mouser and other electronics
distributors. It is basically just regular old epoxy with metal or
silica dust mixed in to improve heat conduction. You could use JB
Weld in a pinch.
I drill a hole in the lug, insert the zener, solder it, solder the
lead wire on, slide a piece of heat shrink tubing over it, pour in
the epoxy, and then shrink the tubing. With practice, you can get the
"right" amount of epoxy so it just fills the space.
Mark McCurdy wrote:
Be careful, metal dust mixed in will also make it conductive of
electricity
Yes, JB weld is also rather conductive. I was not aware that heat sink
epoxy would be conductive. Now that I know its not an issue. If I
didn't know that could have been a problem. Thanks to Lee for pointing
out this potential issue!
Lee, I'm having a hard time picturing this:
I drill a hole in the lug, insert the zener, solder it, solder the
lead wire on,
I thought the zener fit into the lug where the wire was supposed to go
(it seemed to me that would be the heat sink for the zener.) My
question was about how to solder the wire to the lug since it wasn't in
the crimp part of the lug. I'm a bit confused (I know little round
parts have a hard time meeting their rated watt specs without some way
to ditch heat.)
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How are you planning to support the transmission shaft? The VW
transmission shaft doesn't have a bearing, and depends on the ICE's
crankshaft for support
The plate is easy to make. You find a bearing that fits the transmission
shaft. Have a precision hole drilled in your plate and have the bearing
pressed in. Then its an easy job to drill holes to the transmission bolts &
motors. The most critical is that transmission bearing. Can't be any slop
there. That's how I'd do it. If you had a VW motor it would be easy to
make a pattern if you wanted. Lawrence Rhodes.........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you driven it Rod? It's 48v. It's got 8 golfcart batteries. It might
even be heaver. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
> I think the Keystone Flyer is a much better value for the dollar than the
> Xebra. It has two wheel drive as opposed to one. It has front and rear
> wipers, heater and stereo. Most of all it looks a heck of as lot better.
> http://www.keystonecarts.com/KeystoneFlyerSpecs.html
> http://www.keystonecarts.com/KeystoneFlyerGallery.html
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 9:10 AM
> Subject: Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
>
>
> >I thought this one may have merit ??
> > http://www.preparedness1.com/geo_metro.htm
> >
> > Any others ??
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date:
> > 12/19/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date:
12/19/2006
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Michael and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 3 Wheelers stability issues
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:36:33 -0800
>Whether to use 2F1R or 1F2R has been debated for as long as
>3 wheelers have been built. It completely depends on the
>car's weight distribution and design and either design
>can/is unstable if improperly done (same for some 4 wheel
>cars) and the 2F design is not inherently more stable nor
>inherently capable of making turns more safely.
Technically you are right but in real life, especially
braking into a turn, a 1f2r is not going to take a corner
anywhere near as fast as a well designed 2f1r. I owned
several of both and tilting 3wheelers too. The wider 2f1r
ones could not be made to slide, holding the road with a
very tight grip. In fact good enough to keep up with the
best sportscars. While the 1f2r will always have to be
driven carefully, especially at higher speeds.
A narrower and/or higher GC 2f1r can by turning in
reverse downhill too fast, roll. With my Cg 4" lower than a
Corvette's, that's not a problem with mine ;^D
>
>As 2 examples, the Freeway and Sparrow were both 2F. In EV
>design, the FW was one of the most unstable designs made,
>because the weight was on the rear (single) wheel. It
>didn't accelerate quickly, but could be upset, starting
>from a dead stop, even in a standard intersection. (A 70'
>turn, at 18MPH would send it up on one front wheel, per a
>gov't study, and probably not recover.) However moving the
>batts below the front seat (4' forward and 12-14" lower)
>made the car extremely stable in turns at any speed it was
>capable of.
NOT the best examples of good handling 3wheelers. I
didn't know you had done that mod to improve it.
A 3wheeler needs to be at least 4' wide, mine's 5'
and keep all the batts just inside the 2 wheel axle with
attention to detail, you can have one of the finest handling
vehicles in the world. If not designed well, they can bite
you. And most 3wheeler are NOT designed well dispite the
physics are well known now.
>
>For carrying weight, the load must be placed on the double
>axle, especially as it is carried high on the COG. In the
>real world, this can be shown by the Reliant and the Bajaj.
>These rigs can carry up to 1/2 ton of load and still remain
>fairly stable. (Considering this is approaching the weight
>of the Bajaj, and weight is very high, that's not a bad
>thing.) The Reliant vans were more stable when carrying a
>load than otherwise... provided the load was strapped down.
>Place a load above the single axle and it'll do a
>"Laugh-In" trike stunt.
For 3wheeler carrying loads, the 1f2r is the best.
>
>There is the consideration of what happens if you do get in
>trouble, as in a flat tire or lifting one of the wheels off
>the ground. With 2F, steering geometry usually changes
>dramatically. W/ 1F, steering does change somewhat, but the
>rig can be controlled except in certain extreme conditions.
Neither really has a problem if you just grip the
wheel tighly, staying straight, then slowly turn off the
road. It's worse in a 1f2r in a turn but you shouldn't be
turning at a fast speed in them anyway.
>(Very hard braking or going down a steep hill, ala 3 wheel
>dune rigs, comes to mind.) It is very uncommon w/ 1F to
>lift a rear wheel in braking, *except* going downhill or in
>a severe panic stop at speed.
You need to be very careful turning a 1f2r while
downhill, especially if the CG is high. This is where being
an EV really helps with battery weight low.
>
>But, in either case, the ideal is to find a system that
>isn't going to lift a wheel. That can be seen when scaled
>down to bikes. The low rider racing machines do very well
>in either configuration... but the "adult" bikes have been
>known to dump their rider. It's all COG... keep the weight
>low and at least 1/3 of the weight on each of the double
>axle tires.
Exactly!!
Like all vehicles, when designed, driven right,
3wheelers are great vehicles especially EV ones with there
extremely low CG can be great lightweight, long range fun
EV's that have very low costs.
Jerry Dycus
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 11:50 PM
>Subject: Re: 3 Wheelers stability issues
>
>
>> i've been watching the discussion and the many viewpoints
>>
>> traditionally, tri-cycles were made for babies .. they
>> were natural solution .. bi-cycles could not be driven by
>> babies and kids .. so having 2 wheels at the rear seems
>> good enough to make the vehicle stable .. naturally, the
>> one wheel in the front was being used to steer .. and
>> that design was okay for the tricycle too
>>
>> the 'natural' extension of this design to 3 wheeler
>> scooters, vans, etc is understandable .. just scale up
>> the size and add and engine .. etc
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What you are saying is contrary to fact.
But I am not going ot argue.
If you really want to tell people on a public board that it is ok to do
something so risky then it is on your conscience.
I say never idle your car or an engine period.
Then there is no problem.
If you want to think you will run for fresh air when you feel woozy,
then you'll have plenty of company in the graveyard!
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 7:00 pm, Danny Miller wrote:
People most certainly do feel symptoms well before passing out, but
they are most often not correctly recognized.
They're generally confused with the flu. It may also impair reasoning
enough to reduce the chances of a person going through all the possible
reasons why they suddenly feel sick. People tend to think of flu, food
poisoning, stress, low blood sugar, "am I pregnant?" or whatever before
asking themselves questions about the room they're in.
This thing about you already being dead is a load of bull. CO
poisoning is rarely anything "sudden". CO poisoning does not go away
by getting to fresh air, but it'll certainly put you in better shape.
If the blood's still able to carry enough O2 to keep you concious, then
you're not going to die once you get some fresh air. Of course
depending on the severity and any other medical conditions the victim
may have, medical intervention may be very helpful. If you just felt
woozy and suspected a CO poisoning situation (gee maybe I shouldn't
have been running the car even with the garage half open), just get
fresh air immediately and keep people out of the enclosed area until
the problem is dealt with. You don't need to call 911. If you or
someone else is disoriented, semiconcious, confused, whatever, maybe
you should call 911 to be safe.
If you've passed out, then the brain is starving and of course it's
likely you will absorb even more CO until it's fatal. That's the real
problem. Like I say some people will stay calm and not realize
anything is wrong until they pass out so of course it's a killer.
Danny
GWMobile wrote:
And another thing.
Co is completely orderless.
Your advice is EXCATLY the wrong thing to say and exactly why so many
people tragically die.
YOU GET NO WAENING. You can't RUn for fresh air when you feel woozy.
You don't have any red blood cells left at that pont and even if you
got to fresh air you would still suffacate because you don't have any
red blood cells left to take up the oxygen.
AND YOU DON'T FEEL WOOZY. You got a headache from some other
componenets of the smoke not the co.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day All
Noticed a 1204 controller on ebay, 24 to 36 volt at 275A, with 36V
reversing contactors and a control module from a floor scrubber. Might make
someone a good motorbike, scooter etc controller for low cost.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Curtis-PMC-1204-DC-Motor-Controller-24-36V-275A_W0QQitemZ230068037327QQihZ013QQcategoryZ71393QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230068037327
or search ebay for PMC 1204 if the link doesn't work.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
MG Chemicals has a potting compound:
http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/832tc.html
This compound is slightly more thermally conductive than water.
Their application note is pretty informative:
http://www.mgchemicals.com/downloads/appguide/appguide0405.pdf
JB Weld seems to not be electrically conductive at all. I just measured
my encapsulated MOSFET's block (for my AC inverter idea). I put my
meter on the two-megaohm scale, and rolled the leads apart by the
tiniest amount (30 mils), and got no reading (infinity). Their website
agrees: "JB-Weld is considered to be an electrical insulator."
Unfortunately, it isn't very thermally conductive either. Usually the
two go hand in hand, because the movement of electrons not only aids
current flow but heat flow as well. Diamond is the exception (it's due
to phonons, or lattice vibrations), with a thermal conductivity of 1000
W/(m*K). Copper is about 400 and the above epoxy is 0.682.
- Arthur
Paul G. wrote:
> Paul G. (that's me) wrote:
> >>> is there a preferred thermally conductive epoxy to use and method
> >>> of getting it in there?
> Yes, JB weld is also rather conductive. I was not aware that heat sink
> epoxy would be conductive. Now that I know its not an issue. If I
> didn't know that could have been a problem. Thanks to Lee for pointing
> out this potential issue!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know about people, but it'll certainly clear rats out of a shed.
(Self invented in 1983. <g>)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: OT - CO poisoning
> Actually death by indoor charcoal grill is a common method of suicide in
> Hong Kong and has spread through China and even neighboring Asian
countries.
>
> Oddly enough, this is recorded as having been "invented" in 1998.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charcoal-burning_suicide
>
> Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is the Keystone Flyer available? Last I heard, the store in Salem was going
to get them in, but they were still a dream at that time. There were also
rumors that it was going to be about double the cost of the Xebra... but I
haven't seen one yet.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
> I think the Keystone Flyer is a much better value for the dollar than the
> Xebra. It has two wheel drive as opposed to one. It has front and rear
> wipers, heater and stereo. Most of all it looks a heck of as lot better.
> http://www.keystonecarts.com/KeystoneFlyerSpecs.html
> http://www.keystonecarts.com/KeystoneFlyerGallery.html
>
> Roderick Wilde
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
144V pack, 8V floodies. Have heard two ideas:
1) C/10, which in this case is 17.8 A charge current.
Needless to say as the batts. complete charging they
force the charger to ramp back current and taper up
the voltage, thereby finishing the charge.
2) Hit the batteries initially with as much as you
can, say 25-30A, as they will finish their charge more
"completely".
Sooooo experts with more miles, what say you?
My pack is 1/2-way through year 3, 7K miles on it, and
doing well, but as many have followed, no equalizing,
charger adjusting will bring the batts. past about
175V or so, which is fine for Trojans, but have been
directed by USB that I should be able to get closer to
185. Yes, I know that as they age, they don't hit
original voltages. The point is, I've read tons, but
just want people to give their _philosophies_ on this
issue.
Thanks,
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree with you Roderick that Keystone Flyer is very nice looking for a low
cost EV.
Don
In a message dated 12/20/2006 11:15:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think the Keystone Flyer is a much better value for the dollar than the
Xebra. It has two wheel drive as opposed to one. It has front and rear
wipers, heater and stereo. Most of all it looks a heck of as lot better.
http://www.keystonecarts.com/KeystoneFlyerSpecs.html
http://www.keystonecarts.com/KeystoneFlyerGallery.html
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 9:10 AM
Subject: Alternatives to the Xebra ? Less than $10K
>I thought this one may have merit ??
> http://www.preparedness1.com/geo_metro.htm
>
> Any others ??
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date:
> 12/19/2006
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date: 12/19/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bob,
I charging my Trojan T-145'5 at 40 to 45 amps up to 90% SOS at 7.5 volts per
6 volt battery which would be the same as 180 volts on a 144 volt pack for
the last 5 years with 9125 miles on them.
I charge these batteries at 7.5 per battery with a temperature range of 65
to 80 degrees. The battery temperature has never went below 65 or above 80
in Montana.
The 7.8 volts or the same as 185 volts on a 144 V battery pack, is a
equalization charge on the Trojans. I may do this every 4 or 6 months if
need. My maximum voltage difference between four batteries out of 30 is
about 0.02 volts from the other 26 batteries.
According to the Trojan techs, they like to have me charge the T-145's at a
minimum of 36 amps at 225 volts for a 180 volt pack up to 90% SOS. I try
one time to charge at 30 amps, and the pack felt weak on power, like the
plates only got a surface charge.
The maximum charge is about 20% of the ampere-hour rating of the battery,
which Trojan modified from 244 ah to 260 ah which would be 52 amp charge up
to 80% SOS.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 9:37 PM
Subject: 2 differing floodie philosophies on initial charges
> 144V pack, 8V floodies. Have heard two ideas:
>
> 1) C/10, which in this case is 17.8 A charge current.
> Needless to say as the batts. complete charging they
> force the charger to ramp back current and taper up
> the voltage, thereby finishing the charge.
>
> 2) Hit the batteries initially with as much as you
> can, say 25-30A, as they will finish their charge more
> "completely".
>
> Sooooo experts with more miles, what say you?
>
>
> My pack is 1/2-way through year 3, 7K miles on it, and
> doing well, but as many have followed, no equalizing,
> charger adjusting will bring the batts. past about
> 175V or so, which is fine for Trojans, but have been
> directed by USB that I should be able to get closer to
> 185. Yes, I know that as they age, they don't hit
> original voltages. The point is, I've read tons, but
> just want people to give their _philosophies_ on this
> issue.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> Learn more at:
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I looked at the web site you have below
_http://www.tempestbatteries.com/html/group31.html_
(http://www.tempestbatteries.com/html/group31.html)
I noticed an error in their information. They say it is a 120 Ah battery but
they show the 20 hour rate at 5 Ah. This would be a 100 Ah battery at the
C-20 rate. I have seen mistakes in information posted before so not a great
surprise. I did a search before about the everstartbatteries and I could not
find much on them. Several boaters with electric trolling motors were talking
them up. That would be a deep cycle use.
To compare batteries you need to look at the C rating and watch that they
are using a 20 hour discharge and not a 100 hour discharge rate.
Don
In a message dated 12/20/2006 10:59:52 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
My bad, I couldn't find the complete specs for this battery online. The
few references I did find referenced a website that doesn't exist anymore.
www.everstartbatteries.com www.everstart-batteries.com both pull up search
engines/portals.
It seems a bit to good to be true. I suppose it could be mostly a
starting battery that they've sold as a "Marine" battery. That might
provide 12V @ 120 AH in a 57lb battery, wouldn't last very long as a deep
cycle though.
I've seen a few group 31 size Marine batteries that spec 120ah, but they
all weigh in around 75 lbs.
This one for example: http://www.tempestbatteries.com/html/group31.html
> It wasn't reserve minutes.
>
> The MAXX-29 used to state a 120 AH rating. I don't recall what the
> reserve minutes were, a simple web search says 205 reserve minutes
> though. That's 85.4 amp-hrs at 25 amps.
>
> They no longer state any amp-hr or reserve minutes on the battery at
> all. It states only 875 marine cranking amps and 675 cold cranking amps.
>
> Danny
>
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
>>It's probably a 120 min reserve capacity, lots of noobs confuse reserve
>>capacity with Ah capacity.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Just reading the information here this does not look right. I have not
>>>seen
>>>any lead acid 120Ah batteries rated at the C-20 rate that weigh 57
>>>pounds. Is
>>>this a C-100 rating?
>>>
>>>Don
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>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>
I don't think there should be any doubt that it has been American cars which
have led the way in this area and have set the scene, so to speak. Anything
whcih follows on after that is purely as a result of the EV-1, and cars like
TZero.
Just because there may become a greater number of EV's in the UK than the US
will not mean that the UK has 'pulled ahead', or that America has 'slipped
behind', or any other of those eroneous type of thoughts.
The simple fact is that last year petrol prices hit 1GBP per litre, what's
that in dollars ? about $1.50....thereabouts. SO you shouldn;'t think anyone
is on a mission to 'beat' or 'pull ahead'.......when in fact we are merely
trying to 'save a small fortune'.....and 'live to our means'.
Personally, I use about 5GBP worth of fuel per day travelling into Edinburgh
to University, about 18 miles away. Car parking charges are being introduced
in the area around the University and it will cost at least 5gbp per day to
got there...which means I will pay 10gbp per day to go to University.
In oprder to give this some perspective and meaning, the minimum wage is
just over 5GBP per hour, and in my part-time job at the weekend I earn 50GBP
per day, so my weeks car running cost of about 40GBP is almost one days wage,
in
a country where education is said to be free.
For comparison, in a South American country I was reading about recently 1
litre costs the same as a Hen's egg, and 1 gallon costs the same as a loaf of
bread, due to fuel subsidies being implemented......so I predict that that
country will have the slowest uptake of EV's.
It comes down to how much you can afford, and last year in the UK we saw
petrol become that much less affordable......that 1 pound litre roughly
caluclauted as 25p for the petrol, 17p for VAT and the rest in 'fuel duty'. So
motor
fuel carries two taxes....the worst thing about this is that the VAT
(probably equivalent to your State Tax in it's implementation) is calculated by
including the already added fuel duty, so the ammount of VAT being collected
rises
as the ammount of fuel duty increases, os in a way we are paying a tax for
being taxed.
I hope it's clearer now, that there is no competition with any other
country, and how you can see we get so disappointed , as I'm sure many
Americans do,
when a company such as AC Propulsion sells it's products 'to California
only'. They should be able to see that they only encourage a loss of trade by
forcing others to take matters into their own hands by not providing a simple
solution for them to use.
Chris Barron
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> For comparison, in a South American country I was reading about recently 1
> litre costs the same as a Hen's egg, and 1 gallon costs the same as a loaf
> of
> bread, due to fuel subsidies being implemented......so I predict that that
> country will have the slowest uptake of EV's.
>
That country must be Venezuela, which is not a tipical South American
country when it comes to fuel prices.
Fuel price in Chile (where I live) and most of latinamerica is around 1 US
dollar per liter, or US$4 a gallon aprox. A small exeption is argentina
that recently devaluated its peso and regulation has kept fuel prices
about 40% lower than the rest of the south cone countries but its catching
up slowly.
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
| Yo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From my daughter at Lake Arrowhead, CA:
We had a giant power surge tonight that blew up most of our appliances.
Don't know how long it will take to repair. Can't run the generator
because we don't know about wiring damage yet. Had sparks flying, light
bulbs exploding, and burned a few outlets.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I believe you are wrong. Federal law doesnt care where the passenger (if
any) sits. All it cares about is the number of wheels. Some state laws
are more restrictive, but that is at thed state level.
For example, some states require the operator to "straddle" the vehicle,
others require a saddle rather than a seat, some limit where the wheels
can be (i.e. two rear and one front only, but not the other way around)
and some states don't allow three wheeled motorcycles at all.
Generally speaking, if they change the law and end up changing the
requirements/classification of a vehicle, they usually grandfather
previously registered vehicles.
> I believe that a three wheel motorcycle needs to be tandem or single
> passenger, not side by side. Sparrow is single, tango is tandem.
>
> M
> On Dec 20, 2006, at 12:50 PM, GWMobile wrote:
>
>> Whooaaa
>>
>> Changing the 3 wheel rule would be HUGE.
>>
>> I can only assume some auto company lobbiests are hard at work
>> trying to stop a budding home builder industry in its tracks.
>>
>> On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 3:17 pm, MARK DUTKO wrote:
>>> I wanted to give a warning to all who are considering the purchase
>>> of a Zebra. I have been contemplating this post but felt it would
>>> be in the best interest to bring it to the attention of those
>>> interested to provide them some more information on their
>>> potential purchase decision. Without being too specific on the
>>> list ( you may contact me off list) I can tell you that there is
>>> a good possibility of the DOT prohibiting the sale of this
>>> vehicle in the future and also de- classifying any existing models
>>> as being registered as a motorcycle as it does not meet the
>>> requirements just because it has three wheels. The various issues
>>> here and others I have not mentioned could result in a vehicle
>>> that will not be able to be insured or registered. I have no
>>> personal interest in this matter in either direction but I can
>>> not sit back without informing list members that a purchase of
>>> this vehicle could be potentially risky. You may contact me
>>> directly only if you are SERIOUSLY contemplating a purchase and I
>>> will give you some further information.
>>>
>>> M
>>
>> www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes,
>> globalwarming and the melting poles.
>>
>> www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any particular reason you can't run the modular chargers at the same times
as the bulk charger and just have the bulk charger drop out when it hit's
80% ?
The extra 3 amps should help bring the charge up a bit faster. Not sure
if they would interfer with the bulk charger's voltage detection though.
>
>
>
> Russ Kaufmann wrote:
>>Roy, is this the SC24 three stage with the regulator disconnect option
>>that shipped to Portland? Are you using the RD to turn off the Russco
>>Charger and start the modular chargers? Pretty smart idea.
>>
>>The regulator disconnect option was intended to open the shunt regulators
>>for third stage constant current finish charging. But the RD could be
>>used to start modular chargers for the finish stage constant voltage.
>>That way each battery would receive an individual finishing charge. Hmm,
>>I see a new option coming out. A Russco bulk charger with the RD to
>> start
>>modular chargers without having to purchase the three stage option. And
>>no power wasting shunt regulators. Brilliant.
>>
>>Russ Kaufmann
>
>
> No Russ.
>
> You are the one that is brilliant, I am just a hack. This did not occur to
> me.
>
> I will present this option to the vehicle owner.
>
> Thanks!
> Roy
>
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
> NEDRA NW Regional Director
> www.nedra.com
>
> My EV and RE Project Pages-
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
>
> Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered
> by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter-
The only attempt here was to provide some info that is fact not rumor
and is very reliable. It does not matter what a sate or states allow
if the vehicle has been restricted from being imported. The real
purpose of my post was to help potential buyers make a better
decision- I won't be specific here on the details so everyone can
speculate all they want until an entirely new rumor surfaces. Also,
when a vehicle is illegally imported or is deemed unsafe, that does
not mean it will be grandfathered just because someone registered
it. I'm not here to say this will or will not ultimately be the case
with any vehicle but only to provide some very specific info that
is not rumor or speculation. I'm sorry I can't be specific here as I
just don't feel comfortable and it is not appropriate. Most likely
the Zebra will be the EV of the year in 08 and you will be able to
drive a three-wheel EV that has two wheels on one side and a single
wheel on the left, it will cost $7500 and CA and New Hampshire will
be giving a $30,000 tax credit:) By the way I have nothing against
these vehicles- I had a Sparrow and loved it and I drove it around
the hills and curves of SF at 70 on the freeway and it handled very
well. I would drive it slowly in reverse though....
I believe you are wrong. Federal law doesnt care where the
passenger (if
any) sits. All it cares about is the number of wheels. Some state
laws
are more restrictive, but that is at thed state level.
For example, some states require the operator to "straddle" the
vehicle,
others require a saddle rather than a seat, some limit where the
wheels
can be (i.e. two rear and one front only, but not the other way
around)
and some states don't allow three wheeled motorcycles at all.
Generally speaking, if they change the law and end up changing the
requirements/classification of a vehicle, they usually grandfather
previously registered vehicles.
I believe that a three wheel motorcycle needs to be tandem or single
passenger, not side by side. Sparrow is single, tango is tandem.
M
On Dec 20, 2006, at 12:50 PM, GWMobile wrote:
Whooaaa
Changing the 3 wheel rule would be HUGE.
I can only assume some auto company lobbiests are hard at work
trying to stop a budding home builder industry in its tracks.
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 3:17 pm, MARK DUTKO wrote:
I wanted to give a warning to all who are considering the purchase
of a Zebra. I have been contemplating this post but felt it would
be in the best interest to bring it to the attention of those
interested to provide them some more information on their
potential purchase decision. Without being too specific on the
list ( you may contact me off list) I can tell you that there is
a good possibility of the DOT prohibiting the sale of this
vehicle in the future and also de- classifying any existing models
as being registered as a motorcycle as it does not meet the
requirements just because it has three wheels. The various issues
here and others I have not mentioned could result in a vehicle
that will not be able to be insured or registered. I have no
personal interest in this matter in either direction but I can
not sit back without informing list members that a purchase of
this vehicle could be potentially risky. You may contact me
directly only if you are SERIOUSLY contemplating a purchase and I
will give you some further information.
M
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From what I have found I concur with Peter. Under the definitions section of
the National Highway Traffic Safety Commission section 49 CFR 571.3 it
states:
"Motorcycle means a motor vehicle with motive power having a seat or
saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than
three wheels in contact with the ground."Roderick Wilde----- Original
Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 7:55 AM
Subject: Re: Zebra Purchase Warning
I believe you are wrong. Federal law doesnt care where the passenger (if
any) sits. All it cares about is the number of wheels. Some state laws
are more restrictive, but that is at thed state level.
For example, some states require the operator to "straddle" the vehicle,
others require a saddle rather than a seat, some limit where the wheels
can be (i.e. two rear and one front only, but not the other way around)
and some states don't allow three wheeled motorcycles at all.
Generally speaking, if they change the law and end up changing the
requirements/classification of a vehicle, they usually grandfather
previously registered vehicles.
I believe that a three wheel motorcycle needs to be tandem or single
passenger, not side by side. Sparrow is single, tango is tandem.
M
On Dec 20, 2006, at 12:50 PM, GWMobile wrote:
Whooaaa
Changing the 3 wheel rule would be HUGE.
I can only assume some auto company lobbiests are hard at work
trying to stop a budding home builder industry in its tracks.
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 3:17 pm, MARK DUTKO wrote:
I wanted to give a warning to all who are considering the purchase
of a Zebra. I have been contemplating this post but felt it would
be in the best interest to bring it to the attention of those
interested to provide them some more information on their
potential purchase decision. Without being too specific on the
list ( you may contact me off list) I can tell you that there is
a good possibility of the DOT prohibiting the sale of this
vehicle in the future and also de- classifying any existing models
as being registered as a motorcycle as it does not meet the
requirements just because it has three wheels. The various issues
here and others I have not mentioned could result in a vehicle
that will not be able to be insured or registered. I have no
personal interest in this matter in either direction but I can
not sit back without informing list members that a purchase of
this vehicle could be potentially risky. You may contact me
directly only if you are SERIOUSLY contemplating a purchase and I
will give you some further information.
M
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/594 - Release Date:
12/20/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/594 - Release Date: 12/20/2006
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