EV Digest 6236
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Excited about Excitation
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Excited about Excitation
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Excited about Excitation
by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Freedom EV ?
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Zebra Purchase Warning
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: What is the potential for using mass produced car alternaters as
motors.
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: European EV cars pulling ahead ?
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Help id controller.
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Freedom EV ?
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: FW: Help id controller.
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Help id controller.
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Freedom EV ?
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Battery filler bottles
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Battery filler bottles
by "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Battery filler bottles
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Zener regs revisited
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Trains an' Stuff WAS Re: European EV cars pulling ahead ?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Freedom EV ?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Batt Balancer v Zener Regs: was Zener regs revisited
by "Reinkens, Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Zebra Purchase Warning
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Fw: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] (fwd) OT: Sawyer comment on ZEV waiver
approval
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
That's called "Plug braking" not regen. Residual magnetism IS relevent
since it's what creats the initial magnetic field and kick starts the
whole prrocess.
The small residual magnetism creats a tiny bit of back emf, this flows
through the resistor and allows current to flow through the coils creating
more magnetism. As the increasing current flows through the resistor, the
field grows and braking increases.
You get into a bit of a vicous loop here. Increasing current creats a
stronger field, which causes more current, which creats a stronger
field....etc.
>From what I understand the braking can get quite agressive on a vehicle
traveling at highway speeds. This is why it's rarely used on vehicles
that travel at much more than a walking pace.
> I need some schooling about regen and excitation in eries DC motors.
> My question is this: Let's say you're going down road and want to use
> regen to slow down. For this discussion, let's disregard residual
> magnetism unless it somehow applies to the answer. If you disconnect
> from the batteries and hook a resistor across the whole motor, will
> electric current flow through the resistor? Or do you need to somehow
> apply a little voltage across the field to get the current flowing
> initially?
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bill,
The following are methods of regenerative braking from my CableForm manual.
Regenerative braking can be applied fairly easily to a shunt-wound motor,
but on series-wound motors the circuit may require a two pole double pole
contactor and one or more shunt contactors which is use to insert a
resistance into the motor circuit.
Rheostatic Braking.
The motor armature and fields are connected in series and to the controller
circuit for a normal motor rotation.
A free wheel or inter-pulse diode is place in parallel with the motor in
reverse polarity of the battery. If you are using a reversing contactor,
then these inter-pulse diodes must also be switch.
In the braking position:
The motor is disconnected from the supply.
The fields are reversed connection relative to the armature, which
requires a two pole double pole contactor.
The motor is than connected in series with one or more resistors
using one or more shunt contactors.
Then the motor and resistor is connected up to the batteries while
the main controller contactor remains off.
The motor in the off cycle or pulse off, the current decays through the
motor in the opposite direction through the inter-pulse diode which is now
in the reverse polarity of the batteries.
Plug Braking (Direction Reversal).
The motor field connections are reversed to the armature
position, and a resistor is inserted in series with the motor to
limit the current.
The motor is switch out of the controller and battery circuit
as well as the free wheel diode.
The two motor leads are then shorted together by a contactor.
In this form of braking, the motor tends to run in the opposite direction to
the vehicle motion. The supply voltage and the back e.m.f. are then acting
in the same direction.
Dynamic Braking
This method is a combination of rheostatic and plug braking.
The motor connections are also reversed and a resistor is
in series with the motor.
The free wheeling diode is kept in the circuit, but the motor
is disconnected from the controller and batteries.
The armature current circulates through the diode and the field
control by the resistance.
One time my CableForm controller went into dynamic braking for about second.
I was park between two cars and I let up on the accelerator, it stop the
motor and EV in with inches which crack the motor coupler. If felt like I
was hit in the back with a Semi going 60 mph. The switch out circuits fail
at this time.
So, its not best to use this type of braking unless you are driving a train
at 80 mph and you are about to hit something that may destroy the whole
train anyway.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 10:16 AM
Subject: Excited about Excitation
> I need some schooling about regen and excitation in series DC motors.
> My question is this: Let's say you're going down road and want to use
> regen to slow down. For this discussion, let's disregard residual
> magnetism unless it somehow applies to the answer. If you disconnect
> from the batteries and hook a resistor across the whole motor, will
> electric current flow through the resistor? Or do you need to somehow
> apply a little voltage across the field to get the current flowing
> initially?
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, Peter. I know my example wasn't regen, but I was trying to make
my initial question as simple as possible. Once that was answered, my
next question would be if you added a lower voltage battery pack and
diode in series with the resistor. If the EV's traction pack were 144V,
and the lower voltage pack was 24V would the motor start regenning as
soon as you connected the lower voltage pack across the motor (as long
as the back EMF was higher than the than the lower pack voltage), or
would you need to excite the field?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone have a contact or info on the Freedom EV ?
http://evproduction.org/wiki/index.php?title=Freedom_EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Which (2f1r)EV was this ??
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My wife recently purchased a 2f1r EV right here in Austin, Texas. It
has been registered, insured, inspected and she took her motorcycle
license test in it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That was probably Ives Meadors with the 2-alternator go-cart.
As I recall, he did some internal rewiring of these to make them work as
BLDC or 3-phase AC motors. His controller was pretty versatile and he
demonstrated it with the alternator AC motor, then attached it to an
industrial 5HP AC motor and spun it up instead. His controller had separate
pots for throttle and regen braking.
I wouldn't ride on the go-cart...was a bit too zippy and freaky with those
thumb controls on the steering wheel...
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Steven Ciciora
> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 6:01 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: What is the potential for using mass produced car
> alternaters as motors.
>
>
> A few years back at woodburn, I rode a go-cart that
> ran on two automotive alternators. It had a
> home-brew, analog controller, and controlled by a
> joystick. I herd a rumor that it use to be a wireless
> joystick?!? Anyway, talking with the builder, he said
> he had trouble getting it to work, until he tried the
> right alternator. I can't remember exactly what he
> said, but I think it was ford alternators worked best
> for him? It was a lot of fun, but not nearly as much
> fun as Brian Hall's go-cart I rode around the hotel
> parking lot. It had a single BLDC motor, much smaller
> than just one of the other go-cart's alternators.
> Much faster off the line, too.
>
> - Steven Ciciora
>
> --- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > At 09:24 PM 21/12/06 -0500, Martin K wrote:
> > >James,
> > >I understand that all of your other points are
> > valid about low
> > >efficiency and whatnot.
> > >What voltage did you run the alternator at? At 60Hz
> > it doesn't seem like
> > >it would have much power. I don't know how many
> > poles an alternator has
> > >though.
> >
> > They have a lot of poles, so it ran slowly - I can't
> > remember how slowly,
> > from memory an alternator is something like 18
> > poles, so it would have been
> > running at something like 330RPM (here we are 50Hz).
> > I think he tried 12V
> > delta from the transformer secondary then when he
> > hadn't enough power star
> > connected to be around 20V, then cranked up the
> > field volts and amps and
> > burnt out the field (field drew 4A or so @ 12V, IIRC
> > Len ran it at
> > something like 10 or 15A trying to get decent
> > power). We were
> > reconditioning alternators as part of what Lens'
> > business did, and this was
> > a "theory says, lets' try" job, done with junk that
> > was laid around. I
> > haven't worked with car alternators in nearly 20
> > years, so I'm no longer
> > familiar with them.
> >
> > To get decent RPM (a few thousand RPM) you'd need to
> > run the alternator
> > with several hundred hertz (about 500Hz if my memory
> > of the number of poles
> > is correct) possibly as far as a couple of kHz, at
> > at least 120 or maybe a
> > couple of hundred volts, but the materials that the
> > stator is made from
> > will likely become very lossy at that frequency.
> > This is starting to get
> > away from what I have experience with, and knowlege
> > about.
> >
> > This is one of those things that someone, somewhere
> > has probably done, just
> > to prove a point ("said it couldn't be done, I
> > showed 'em"), but that does
> > not mean it is a good solution, particularly for a
> > full-size EV. You can
> > power a full size EV with a stack of small motors of
> > any type, with enough
> > of them, but the practicalities of using,
> > controlling and efficiency point
> > to one or two motors that are big enough to do the
> > job.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > [Technik] James
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
it would be nice to find some grant money and prototype some of these ideas,
for example i would like to see a solar train. with all the cars behind the
engine covered with solar panels, the more cars the more power. plus these
trains could be used as portable emergency power plants
Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I was thinking the trash pickups trucks
really should be electric.
These are the automated trucks that use robotics to pickup and dump the
trashcans here in Sacramento. All they do all day is move 15 feet and
come to screeching halt, pick up trash and dump it, then race another 15
feet, etc, etc, all day long. They make a HUGE amount of noise, both
motor and brake noise and engine noise to operate the robotic controls.
Wakes everyone up at 5am.
They could use electric torque to move the heavy truck and regen it
right back to stop, could hold a lot of battery weight, the trucks are
already massively heavy. Should make maintainance a lot easier too, I'm
sure those trucks have to be worked on constantly.
At minimum use a hybrid with a smaller quieter motor to charge batteries
if battery capacity can't make the round trip.
Somewhat like the mail trucks, but these are 10 times more appropriate.
Jack
Lee Hart wrote:
> Roderick Wilde wrote:
>
>>My Fed EX driver just told me his daily commute is 350
>>miles round trip... The increase in fuel prices really hits
>>the pocket book. Also most EVs aren't able to handle
>>these distances.
>
>
> This is where a hybrid really makes sense. Diesel for long trips to/from the
> central depot, electric for the stop-and-go deliveries and to eliminate
> excessive idling. The market for such a vehicle is huge! But like passenger
> EVs, the traditional truck companies are loathe to work on them. They go
> through the motions, but won't really commit to the idea.
>
> Kert Kaido wrote:
>
>>Add fast charging ( 15 minutes ) into equation.
>
>
> I think swappable battery packs make more sense for a delivery truck. The
> users automatically keep going back to a central facility to load/unload. It
> would just be "more of the same" to also load/unload a fresh battery pack.
> That way, there is zero down-time for charging, and packs can be
> maintained/replaced without tying up a vehicle.
>
>
check out my blog:
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:47 AM 22/12/06 -0300, Eduardo K wrote:
Hi,
Can you help me id the controller on ebay auction id 190064023758 ?
It looks like it has a different connectos as the one in Curtis manuals...
thanks.
G'day Eduardo
It is a 1209-5501, from the 1209B manual it would seem that 1209-55xx is 36
to 48 volts at 450A for up to 2 min, 300A for 5 min or 200A for 1 hour,
although this is not a B model, so may be different. It looks as though it
only has two spade connections instead of three, so if that is so is
voltage input, "needing" (according to the Curtis manual) an ET-xxx
electronic throttle that needs 24-36 volts. I have been unable to find what
the xxxx-xx01 part of the number means.
Also, to quote the listing: "This one has a small rattle inside it, I have
no means to test it and it is very well sealed so I cannot pull it apart",
so assumed to need repair.
Hope this helps.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry Dycus who inputs a lot on the EV list. Email at:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- jmygann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anyone have a contact or info on the Freedom EV ?
>
http://evproduction.org/wiki/index.php?title=Freedom_EV
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1209b-5501
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Eduardo Kaftanski
> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 7:48 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Help id controller.
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Can you help me id the controller on ebay auction id 190064023758 ?
>
> It looks like it has a different connectos as the one in Curtis manuals...
>
> thanks.
>
>
>
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:47 AM 22/12/06 -0300, Eduardo K wrote:
Hi,
Can you help me id the controller on ebay auction id 190064023758 ?
It looks like it has a different connectos as the one in Curtis manuals...
thanks.
More information
I found the copy of 1209 manual, instead of the xxxxB manual (actually
1204x, 1205x, 1209, 1221 manual, sorted as 1204/05 was why I missed it
before). The two 'spade' connectors are pot, the other small white
connector is for KSI, F/R contactor control output, Bypass contactor
control output, optional emergency reverse (may not have it), FWD input,
REV input.
It does NOT need the ET module, but I still do not know what the xxxx-xx01
part of its' number means, it may be reverse or standard pot, it may be
emergency reverse, there are several options in the manual that are
"contact factory"
Hope this helps
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi ?
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Freedom EV ?
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 20:33:53 -0000
>Anyone have a contact or info on the Freedom EV ?
>http://evproduction.org/wiki/index.php?title=Freedom_EV
>
That would be me at this e mail or 813-671-3059 for
Freedom EV's.
I'm finishing the Prototype now and it will be at the
Battery Beach Burnout in late Jan.
Jerry Dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been using the ones that you get at AutoZone,
etc. and was wondering: Are these designed primarily
for starting batteries, or floodies?
Reason being, I see information on the USB website
that says that the electrolyte should cover the plates
by about 1/4", and the filler bottles put the levels
considerably higher.
I've been charging to 80% or so, then filling using
this type of bottle, so that when the level of
electrolyte rises due to changing density (more
sulfuric acid), that I don't get messy caps & batt.
tops.
Are EVers all using these types of bottles? Are they
modifying them to make the nipples longer?
Thanks,
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been using one on my US batteries now since March 3rd and fill after
a full charge and then letting it set over night. I use about 1 gallon or a
little more every 45 to 50 days.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 6:22 PM
Subject: Battery filler bottles
I've been using the ones that you get at AutoZone,
etc. and was wondering: Are these designed primarily
for starting batteries, or floodies?
Reason being, I see information on the USB website
that says that the electrolyte should cover the plates
by about 1/4", and the filler bottles put the levels
considerably higher.
I've been charging to 80% or so, then filling using
this type of bottle, so that when the level of
electrolyte rises due to changing density (more
sulfuric acid), that I don't get messy caps & batt.
tops.
Are EVers all using these types of bottles? Are they
modifying them to make the nipples longer?
Thanks,
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/597 - Release Date:
12/21/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bob,
I am using the standard filler bottle where it fill to about to or about 1/8
inch below the filler neck. The first battery filler I had did not reach to
the bottom of my large 300 ah cells I had at one time. I just slip on a
clear plastic tubing, that went in to the bottom of the fill necks.
Had to replace it, because the auto shut off value was not working.
I got a new one from NAPA that the fill tube does reach to the bottom of the
fill neck on my new T-145's 6 volts. To make sure the fill tube was long
enough, I measure the length of the fill neck and than measure the fill
bottles at the dealer.
Again, only add water at about end of charge. I add water to the cells when
the bulk charge is done which is the point where the ampere will stop to
drop. This is about 90$ SOS.
I never have any overflow of the electrolyte rising during end of charge.
Always come up to same electrolyte level as it was originally. If you go up
too high, then you dilute the electrolyte which makes the specific gravity
lower. In this case you either have to try to equalized charge the
batteries to boil the excess water out. If you are still unbalance, then
the next time you fill, add more water in the higher SG cells then the lower
ones and try to equalized them again.
This is the major reason why a lot of open type of batteries become
unbalance by adding water at the start of the charging cycle. This kill a
lot of batteries by service station attendants before we had self service
and seal batteries.
I think they did that on purpose to sell you a new battery.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 4:22 PM
Subject: Battery filler bottles
> I've been using the ones that you get at AutoZone,
> etc. and was wondering: Are these designed primarily
> for starting batteries, or floodies?
> Reason being, I see information on the USB website
> that says that the electrolyte should cover the plates
> by about 1/4", and the filler bottles put the levels
> considerably higher.
>
> I've been charging to 80% or so, then filling using
> this type of bottle, so that when the level of
> electrolyte rises due to changing density (more
> sulfuric acid), that I don't get messy caps & batt.
> tops.
>
> Are EVers all using these types of bottles? Are they
> modifying them to make the nipples longer?
> Thanks,
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> Learn more at:
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First, I want to thank everyone that has replied so far to this thread.
I'm getting a much better idea of how best to do this.
On Dec 21, 2006, at 8:03 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
MIKE WILLMON wrote:
Here are some pics of a batch I built several months ago to play with.
http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/Zener_Regs.pdf
That looks great, Mike!
I put the lamp in the center, with a 6" wire on each side of it to a
terminal. This gave me some flexibility, for example, to poke the
lamps into holes in the top of the battery box (though I didn't wind
up doing so).
I use a much heavier duty ring terminal. I slip a piece of heat shrink
over each one (red for +, black for -).
I took a look at this page too. The instructions where quite clear and
detailed (thanks Mike) but left me with a couple of questions.
First was the loose fit of the zener in the ring terminal. I visualized
this to be an almost snug fit so that the epoxy was minimal and the
terminal could function most effectively as a heat sink.
On a related note, I like the way the wire was soldered to the top of
the terminal. However, I would think the heat of soldering would damage
the zener if it had a snug fit inside the ring terminal.
Then again, looking around on the web I see suggestions on how to use a
toaster oven to solder SMD. They where baking the whole thing,
including a 68332 cpu (while carefully monitoring oven temp) for 5
minutes with a hold at 325F and a quick ramp to 450F! Can that really
be right? Could I "toast flow" a batch of zener regs?
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "dale henderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: European EV cars pulling ahead ?
> it would be nice to find some grant money and prototype some of these
ideas, for example i would like to see a solar train. with all the cars
behind the engine covered with solar panels, the more cars the more power.
plus these trains could be used as portable emergency power plants
> Hi Dale an' All;
A fantesyland sort of thing. You don't have enough roof area on a train.
Cars are only 10 foot wide at best and 80 foot long, (passenger). The amps
ya reed to get going would be more than a solar setup could make!The idea
makes more sense to, say,, pave all the interstate hiways with solar cells,
or ALL of Nev. to run your RR, and charge the RR's batterys. You ARE gunna
run your RR 24/7, Right? Like Amtrak tries to do.I guess snow is an issue,
say, in Denver, of late. Gees! Antrak could clean up during these silly
blizzerds. By now folks going to Chicago and the Left coast would BE therre
by now. Trains go nice in blizzerds, you just blast along with the eternal
optisim that the track is still THERE even though YOU can't see it! Hah!
Amtrak barely has enough equipment to run a skeletin service in nice
weather. You can thank the Best Govt Oil Money can Buy, same guyz of "Who
Killed the Electric Car" fame.
A small OT a bit Vignette here. In my Con Rail Engineering daze, I was
called to move a very special train. A Nuclear Reacter for a Submarine. It
was on a drop center flatcar, our little white train had this, a boxcar, a
caboose full of soldiers with very real automatic weapons. I had a guy from
this entourage in the lokie with me. He was a nice sort of fellow an' we got
to talking. I sez" Are you worried anybody would STEAL this thing, with all
the guyz with guns?"They don't trust anybody, Yeah! I sez, WHOTHEHELL would
stop us, and steal it, anyhow?" You haven't lost any before? Right? No rods,
yet? No. They go in later on in the Sub's construction. Geees! I can't run
it home and go into the eklectricity biz?Well I needed the REST of the sub,
too, heat exchanger, turbines, alternaters, DEEEP pockets, too? You
wouldn't SELL me one? Well...... talk to Westinghouse? Yeah I know him ,
George, we're using his BRAKES, long before he did these nuke things.I COULD
build a nuke locomotive with one of these things, but like a solar train, it
would be more an excersize in futility rather than a practical train. Would
need a heat exchanger car, a turbine alternater car a few with heat
exchanging coils to blow off the extra heat, a stock electric loco to pull
it. Subs are in the water, most of the time, so this isn't an issue.And the
possabilities of a fantastic train wreck, where most of Rhode Island, or
Florida, could be made even MORE uninhabitable, with a major
derailment!!Some SERIOUS stuff rather than the endless CO thread. As we
were rolling along past the Millstone Nuke electrical plant, I concluded
that it would be more practical to just run this nuke teakettle into their
siding" Wouldn't they be able to use it, anyhow?"Naaa! Too small! A sub has
more space issues than a nice big old power plant. Couldn't you sell used
nuke sub reacters to, say, Carnival Cruise Lines, so they wouldn't have to
buy gas(Oil) again?I'm sure two would be enough for their new Boat;
"Radiation of the Seas" I sometimes think the get the Chinese to name the
new boats<G>?They have a wonderfully whimsical naming system, anyhow.
"Thunder Sky" an' "Sacred Son" come to mind.What EVer happened to Hai
Bao(Black Leopard) Car, anyhow??Never saw a black one, they were all white
that I met.
I probably drove the guy crazy, but he was a good spirit, probably
didn't get too much classifyed info out of him, and that anything is
possable if you are in the Govt's right side and have very deep pockets.It
was a fun different train trip.Instead of a trainload (passenger)of funny
looking people on cell fones all the way.
No getting around it; Trains are ideal things to be EV's. Park the Nuke
power plant in one place, or windfarm, or solar sells, and feed the RR
substation. If you surf into You Tube, check out all the cool TRAIN links,
China, Taiwan, take a visual ride on the Shanghai Maglev!The new Hy Speed
rail abuilding in Taiwan.Korea, Germany.....spend hours Over There! All the
new trains are electric, go like hell! Rather smallish Electric lokie in
China hauling Looong freight trains, look like ours, here, swore I saw a B.
and O. car in the train? <g>!Aftrer all they bought trains from US years
ago, could buy new old stock 1918 design steam lokies, made in Da Lian,
China!I think they are building Diseasels and Electrics there,now, but if
you ordered a fleet, you probably could get several hundred Fire Breathing
Coal eating steamers for your budding Commuter service!?Wal*Mart never had
then as a stock item. But several Tourist RR's DID buy them several years
ago.Tell the Ragheads where to go with their oil! But in reality a coal
plant powered Electric Bullit train train system would be cleaner than
millions of cars on the road.Faster, too!Did I say safer, too? The Chinese
think so. They have some cool looking express trains on YU tube!
Other stuff;
> Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I was thinking the trash
pickups trucks really should be electric.
> These are the automated trucks that use robotics to pickup and dump the
> trashcans here in Sacramento. All they do all day is move 15 feet and
> come to screeching halt, pick up trash and dump it, then race another 15
> feet, etc, etc, all day long. They make a HUGE amount of noise, both
> motor and brake noise and engine noise to operate the robotic controls.
> Wakes everyone up at 5am.
> They wouldn't HAVE to, as you say. The drive being electric would be
dead silent, EVen the hydralic pumps COULD be quieter!? There ought to be a
LAW about those damn trux being SO noisy!
> They could use electric torque to move the heavy truck and regen it
> right back to stop, could hold a lot of battery weight, the trucks are
> already massively heavy. Should make maintainance a lot easier too, I'm
> sure those trucks have to be worked on constantly.
> At minimum use a hybrid with a smaller quieter motor to charge batteries
> if battery capacity can't make the round trip.
> And maybe a few designated 480 plugs for a boost as needed, while the
guyz get their coffeee?A Manzanita Micro Charger aboard?
> Somewhat like the mail trucks, but these are 10 times more appropriate.
Mail Trucks? Yeah, ideal, but the Post Office is a Govt thing, and toes
the line here. Buy gas and oil to provide. Hah! They wouldn't use trux that
ran on water, IF they could get them.We, at Electric Fuel Propulsion, of
Detoilet, built pretty darn good E Mail truk, they would go 50 miles on a
charge back in 1971. They, the PS bombed out on us!
These were slick little DAF Veriomatic setups, using a verable belt drive
setup, a 15 hp Baker motor, contacter controller, 120 volt system, smooth,
put it in Drive and aim it! Reliable, we did Boston Las Angles in the Clean
Air Car Race, of 1971, a record 90 mile run across the desert in NM!We
sometimes cheated and tried to slipstream trucks. In Field weakening we
COULD go 70mph, but if the truck was doing 75 it didn't help!But as I have
been saying, alot of late; EV's Issues arent technical, but political.
>
>> Lee Hart wrote:
> > Roderick Wilde wrote:
> >
> >>My Fed EX driver just told me his daily commute is 350
> >>miles round trip... The increase in fuel prices really hits
> >>the pocket book. Also most EVs aren't able to handle
> >>these distances.
> >
> > Sounds like this guy ought to get a Honda Insite?!Or a train Pass?
> > This is where a hybrid really makes sense. Diesel for long trips to/from
the central depot, electric for the stop-and-go deliveries and to eliminate
excessive idling. The market for such a vehicle is huge! But like passenger
EVs, the traditional truck companies are loathe to work on them. They go
through the motions, but won't really commit to the idea.
> >
> > Kert Kaido wrote:
> >
> >>Add fast charging ( 15 minutes ) into equation.
> >
> >
> > I think swappable battery packs make more sense for a delivery truck.
The users automatically keep going back to a central facility to
load/unload. It would just be "more of the same" to also load/unload a fresh
battery pack. That way, there is zero down-time for charging, and packs can
be maintained/replaced without tying up a vehicle.
> > Sorta like NYC's first electric taxis. They didn't have very many
airport runs back then, or even paved roads out of town. They had central
battery charge stations, swapped out as needed. I'm talking 110 years or
more ago.Wonder if some of the more sporting drivers tried to jumper a
Trolley line for a "Boost" with a few dropping resisters. You could have
bummed several from any trolley repair shop.A folding pole to get to the
"hot" side, clip , BIG clip to hook to the rail?Oh I almost forgot, NYC
didn't use overhead wires in Manhattan, ran" Slot Cars" the hot power rail
UNDER the street, cars had a SF type thing that reached through the slot in
the street, LOOKS like a SF Cable car, setup.Up in the bronx ya had the
handy overhead lines for the taking(borrowing).You could with infinate
patience and a pocket FULL of nickels ride trolleys to Boston, or Portland
ME.
Well, what EVer State yur in, Merry Christmas ane a Happy EV New
Year.And all thatr seasonable stuff!
Seeya
Bob
> >
>
>
>
>
> check out my blog:
>
> http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/597 - Release Date: 12/21/06
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: Freedom EV ?
>
> Hi ?
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Freedom EV ?
> Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 20:33:53 -0000
>
> >Anyone have a contact or info on the Freedom EV ?
> >http://evproduction.org/wiki/index.php?title=Freedom_EV
> >
> That would be me at this e mail or 813-671-3059 for
> Freedom EV's.
> I'm finishing the Prototype now and it will be at the
> Battery Beach Burnout in late Jan.
> Jerry Dycus
>
> Hi EVerybody!
Yeah! Jerry! Go for it! Saw the protype back in Oct when Lee Hart an' I
were in town. It's coming along, but, think of it guyz? Jerry is building
from the ground up! He sure has a lot to do to get it up and running. But it
DID show a lot done when I was in FLA for a weekend, when we collected the
Sunrise Body.
It will be sure great to take a spin in Freedom at BBB. Maybe EVen a
pass down the trak<g>?It's only a month, now! Scary?
Seeya all at BBB?
Bob, only guy coming by TRAIN<,G>?
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/597 - Release Date: 12/21/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is all very informative as I get closer to EV building. I may have missed
some distictions or places that describe both more completely. Could someone
share a quick overview of the use and operating characteristics of both the
Battery Balancer and the Zener Regs. What are the key features/benefits of the
two items? After reading the "balancerland" material I'm still a little lost.
Is there another location I can learn more about these?
Thanks in advance.
Kirk
Spokane, WA
________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Lee Hart
Sent: Thu 12/21/2006 8:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Zener regs revisited
MIKE WILLMON wrote:
> Here are some pics of a batch I built several months ago to play with.
> http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/Zener_Regs.pdf
That looks great, Mike!
I put the lamp in the center, with a 6" wire on each side of it to a terminal.
This gave me some flexibility, for example, to poke the lamps into holes in the
top of the battery box (though I didn't wind up doing so).
I use a much heavier duty ring terminal. I slip a piece of heat shrink over
each one (red for +, black for -).
--
Lee Hart
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C72632.F344EB59"
Subject: Batt Balancer v Zener Regs: was Zener regs revisited
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:37:47 -0800
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Thread-Topic: Batt Balancer v Zener Regs: was Zener regs revisited
Thread-Index: Acclfqgj2a6Ku9gYR+6HDu/ixd6fbAAs10nA
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Reinkens, Kirk--
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 20:56:20 EST
Subject: Re: Zebra Purchase Warning
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 12/22/2006 2:45:04 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Which (2f1r)EV was this ??
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My wife recently purchased a 2f1r EV right here in Austin, Texas. It
has been registered, insured, inspected and she took her motorcycle
license test in it.
When we first received delivery of the EV, I posted about twelve emails,
spanning about two weeks, to the list expressing our excitement and EV grins.
None of the email came through. With some experimentation, I found that no
email
would go through that mentioned the name of the EV, but, every email that did
not mention the EV name went through just fine. So, I guess I can only give
you clues... It is made in Ohio and the website is www.myersmotors.com.
Hopefully this will go through...
Ken
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:56:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Zener regs revisited
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Someone suggested using copper tubing. If you cut off a couple inches of 1/2
in tubing, stick 1 inch in a vise and squash it not quite all the way.
Put some nocorode paste on the zener leg and stick it in the flattened
part and finish squashing it flat. Wouldn't
need solder at all. Then drill the flat part. Any reason this wouldn't work?
----- Original Message ----
From: Paul G. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 7:30:47 PM
Subject: Re: Zener regs revisited
First, I want to thank everyone that has replied so far to this thread.
I'm getting a much better idea of how best to do this.
On Dec 21, 2006, at 8:03 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
> MIKE WILLMON wrote:
>> Here are some pics of a batch I built several months ago to play with.
>> http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/Zener_Regs.pdf
>
> That looks great, Mike!
>
> I put the lamp in the center, with a 6" wire on each side of it to a
> terminal. This gave me some flexibility, for example, to poke the
> lamps into holes in the top of the battery box (though I didn't wind
> up doing so).
>
> I use a much heavier duty ring terminal. I slip a piece of heat shrink
> over each one (red for +, black for -).
I took a look at this page too. The instructions where quite clear and
detailed (thanks Mike) but left me with a couple of questions.
First was the loose fit of the zener in the ring terminal. I visualized
this to be an almost snug fit so that the epoxy was minimal and the
terminal could function most effectively as a heat sink.
On a related note, I like the way the wire was soldered to the top of
the terminal. However, I would think the heat of soldering would damage
the zener if it had a snug fit inside the ring terminal.
Then again, looking around on the web I see suggestions on how to use a
toaster oven to solder SMD. They where baking the whole thing,
including a 68332 cpu (while carefully monitoring oven temp) for 5
minutes with a hold at 325F and a quick ramp to 450F! Can that really
be right? Could I "toast flow" a batch of zener regs?
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:30:55 -0500
Subject: Fw: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] (fwd) OT: Sawyer comment on ZEV waiver
approval
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
To: Ev List <[email protected]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mime-Version: 1.0
From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] (fwd) OT: Sawyer comment on ZEV
waiver approval
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 14:42:47 -0700
Don't know how to judge if this is hot air, but I hope it's not.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/nr122206.htm
California Environmental Protection Agency
NEWS RELEASE
Air Resources Board
Release 06-37
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
December 22, 2006
CONTACT:
Jerry Martin
Gennet Paauwe
(916) 322-2990
www.arb.ca.gov
Statement by California Air Resources Board Chairman Dr. Robert Sawyer
on
USEPAÆs Approval of CaliforniaÆs Waiver Request for Zero Emission
Vehicles
California received an early Christmas present from Washington today in
the form of a waiver for our Zero Emission Vehicle regulations. With
this
waiver, California and the other ten
states that have adopted our ZEV regulations can expect
emission-free vehicles powered by fuel cells or batteries on
their roads starting by 2009.
The waiver also allows California to enforce its requirement for other
near zero technologies, such as hybrid electric vehicles or the
increasingly popular Partial Zero Emission Vehicles (PZEVs). These
gasoline powered vehicles are armed with the worldÆs cleanest tailpipe
standard, zero evaporative emission technology and a 15 year, 150,000
mile
warranty on emission control
equipment. Already, there are hundreds of thousands of these popular,
modest priced cars on the roads and this waiver assures us of millions
more within the next few years.
This is a real Christmas gift for all of us. All Californians will
breathe easier because of this measure and the technology that makes
these
clean cars possible can now be made available to everyone.
Dr. Robert Sawyer,
Chairman,
California Air Resources Board
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Mark Abramowitz"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Community Environmental Services
-----------------------------------------------------------
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