EV Digest 6237
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) E-meter support board
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: European EV cars pulling ahead ?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Raptor problem
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: [EV] Re: Help id controller.
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: [EV] Re: European EV cars pulling ahead ?
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: European EV cars pulling ahead ?
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Zebra Purchase Warning and NMG's
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: European EV cars pulling ahead ?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) NmG dealership in Texas! was RE: Zebra Purchase Warning
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Zener regs revisited
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Battery filler bottles
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Excited about Excitation
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: [EV] Re: Help id controller.
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: I need to fix my EV
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Solar powered trains (was: Re: European EV cars pulling ahead ?)
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: NmG dealership in Texas! was RE: Zebra Purchase Warning
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) EVLN(Phoenix Motorcars EVs using Altair Nanotechnologies Li-ion pack)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) EVLN(Shandong Huoyan Electromobile City Spirit: a DC Smart knock-off)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) EVLN(Palmer's cross-European Solartaxi trip)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
It seems to me that one thing that would make our
lives a bit nicer would be a circuit board that came
with on-off switch, an LED, fuse, some spade
connectors, and integrated the DCDC converter and
prescaler.
I'd be interested in providing them to hobbyists
for a small markup, but haven't designed circuit
boards in a long time. I'm sure the methods are a bit
slicker these days.
The pin locations on the DCDC chip aren't in
typical packaging that I'm used to, either. There was
a student that I took an EV course at Saddleback JC
with who did such a board, but unfortunately, it went
with my Rabbit. I can see the future: My DCP DCDC
goes, and I replace it with a Zivan, only to be left
with an unsupplied E-meter, until I make something
durable to support the chip.
Anyone interested in contributing their design
expertise? Are other EVers with E-meters just doing
their own perfboards/wire wrap, etc.?
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That solar train idea really has merit.
Might have to be a light passenger train but it is an interesting
concept.
I wonder how many horse power it takes to move the average train car. I
wonder if their roof area would produce a net positive force to overcome
the individual car's total motion resistance.
On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 5:57 pm, dale henderson wrote:
it would be nice to find some grant money and prototype some of these
ideas, for example i would like to see a solar train. with all the
cars behind the engine covered with solar panels, the more cars the
more power. plus these trains could be used as portable emergency
power plants
Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I was thinking the
trash pickups trucks really should be electric.
These are the automated trucks that use robotics to pickup and dump the
trashcans here in Sacramento. All they do all day is move 15 feet and
come to screeching halt, pick up trash and dump it, then race another
15
feet, etc, etc, all day long. They make a HUGE amount of noise, both
motor and brake noise and engine noise to operate the robotic controls.
Wakes everyone up at 5am.
They could use electric torque to move the heavy truck and regen it
right back to stop, could hold a lot of battery weight, the trucks are
already massively heavy. Should make maintainance a lot easier too, I'm
sure those trucks have to be worked on constantly.
At minimum use a hybrid with a smaller quieter motor to charge
batteries
if battery capacity can't make the round trip.
Somewhat like the mail trucks, but these are 10 times more appropriate.
Jack
Lee Hart wrote:
Roderick Wilde wrote:
My Fed EX driver just told me his daily commute is 350
miles round trip... The increase in fuel prices really hits
the pocket book. Also most EVs aren't able to handle
these distances.
This is where a hybrid really makes sense. Diesel for long trips
to/from the central depot, electric for the stop-and-go deliveries and
to eliminate excessive idling. The market for such a vehicle is huge!
But like passenger EVs, the traditional truck companies are loathe to
work on them. They go through the motions, but won't really commit to
the idea.
Kert Kaido wrote:
Add fast charging ( 15 minutes ) into equation.
I think swappable battery packs make more sense for a delivery truck.
The users automatically keep going back to a central facility to
load/unload. It would just be "more of the same" to also load/unload a
fresh battery pack. That way, there is zero down-time for charging,
and packs can be maintained/replaced without tying up a vehicle.
check out my blog:
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
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www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think I did in my Raptor. I had been working on the car and left the breaker
in the traction pack open. I hooked up the charger, and not seeing any amps
turned it up- I'm not sure how high- and I think the Raptor blower started.
When I realized there was a problem I turned the charger off.
When I turned on the breaker the blower in the Raptor started and the top light
on the indicator lit. The contactor didn't close. The key was off and there is
no voltage on pin 5 (12v input) on the controller.
My guess is that I exceeded the voltage capacity on the precharge circuit and
something died. I would love to be wrong on this one! I tried calling Peter
Senkowski, but it sounded like a fax tone there.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> It does NOT need the ET module, but I still do not know what the xxxx-xx01
> part of its' number means, it may be reverse or standard pot, it may be
> emergency reverse, there are several options in the manual that are
> "contact factory"
>
thanks. I'll watch it and see if it gos cheap enough to warrant
trying to fix it.
eBay is a strange place. sometimes you get a deal, sometimes
thigs get sold for more than tehy are avaliable new somewhere else...
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | Freedom's just another word
http://e.nn.cl | for nothing left to lose.
|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, Dec 22, 2006 at 09:59:46PM -0500, GWMobile wrote:
> That solar train idea really has merit.
> Might have to be a light passenger train but it is an interesting
> concept.
>
> I wonder how many horse power it takes to move the average train car. I
> wonder if their roof area would produce a net positive force to overcome
> the individual car's total motion resistance.
>
I does not need to be a net positive force. It would be ok to just
be able to make more power than whats need to overcome the extra energy
needed because the solar panels are there.
You'd still need power from the grid, but less.
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | Freedom's just another word
http://e.nn.cl | for nothing left to lose.
|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Solar has a prob paying off, especially in mobile applications. It *might*
be feasible for the East coast, if they use the same PVs to power the
electric grids. Unlike stationary aps, these cells can't be kept pointed at
the sun. You must also recall that freight cars are privately owned. They
have enough probs just keeping the brakes working at 50%, much less hooking
up all these electric connections. (There is also the prob of the filth
involved with boxcars. This was a *huge* prob when the cars started carrying
barcodes. The codes, despite being large, couldn't be read. Multiply this by
thousands of PV cells.)
There are the switch engines that have batt power. Given their huge cost,
and their stationary status much of the time, they might be hooked to the
grid. In much of the US, this wouldn't be a huge savings, but on the left
coast (lots of hydro) this could be a large savings in both money and
pollution.
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: European EV cars pulling ahead ?
> That solar train idea really has merit.
> Might have to be a light passenger train but it is an interesting
> concept.
>
> I wonder how many horse power it takes to move the average train car. I
> wonder if their roof area would produce a net positive force to overcome
> the individual car's total motion resistance.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken,
I stopped by Myers Motors to drop off some EVCL boxes
and seen your Sparrow/ NMG. I didn't drive this one
but watched your posts on this list. I can definately
agree with reactions to people on the street seeing
this EV! Thumbs up, even from a Harley rider and his
'significant other' thinking this is a cool ride. I'm
not a single guy, but I had a hot women approach me
asking questions about the NMG at a local IGA (If I
was single she would have got a test ride!). Anyhow,
congratulations on your purchase, I would love to have
one but don't have the cash at this time.
Happy commuting!
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/22/2006 2:45:04 PM Central
> Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Which (2f1r)EV was this ??
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> My wife recently purchased a 2f1r EV right here in
> Austin, Texas. It
> has been registered, insured, inspected and she took
> her motorcycle
> license test in it.
>
> When we first received delivery of the EV, I posted
> about twelve emails,
> spanning about two weeks, to the list expressing our
> excitement and EV grins.
> None of the email came through. With some
> experimentation, I found that no email
> would go through that mentioned the name of the EV,
> but, every email that did
> not mention the EV name went through just fine. So,
> I guess I can only give
> you clues... It is made in Ohio and the website is
> www.myersmotors.com.
> Hopefully this will go through...
>
> Ken
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks much for the reality check. Dreamers, and some of us are that, need
to be reeled in a bit now and then.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: European EV cars pulling ahead ?
Solar has a prob paying off, especially in mobile applications. It *might*
be feasible for the East coast, if they use the same PVs to power the
electric grids. Unlike stationary aps, these cells can't be kept pointed
at
the sun. You must also recall that freight cars are privately owned. They
have enough probs just keeping the brakes working at 50%, much less
hooking
up all these electric connections. (There is also the prob of the filth
involved with boxcars. This was a *huge* prob when the cars started
carrying
barcodes. The codes, despite being large, couldn't be read. Multiply this
by
thousands of PV cells.)
There are the switch engines that have batt power. Given their huge cost,
and their stationary status much of the time, they might be hooked to the
grid. In much of the US, this wouldn't be a huge savings, but on the left
coast (lots of hydro) this could be a large savings in both money and
pollution.
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: European EV cars pulling ahead ?
That solar train idea really has merit.
Might have to be a light passenger train but it is an interesting
concept.
I wonder how many horse power it takes to move the average train car. I
wonder if their roof area would produce a net positive force to overcome
the individual car's total motion resistance.
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
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12/21/2006
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
> When we first received delivery of the EV, I posted about twelve emails,
> spanning about two weeks, to the list expressing our excitement and EV grins.
> None of the email came through. With some experimentation, I found that no
> email
> would go through that mentioned the name of the EV, but, every email that did
> not mention the EV name went through just fine. So, I guess I can only give
> you clues... It is made in Ohio and the website is www.myersmotors.com.
> Hopefully this will go through...
>
> Ken
Ken,
On 9/2/06 you started a thread with subject: "NmG dealership in Texas!". That
one turned out to be 31 posts 6 of which were
yours. In the first few you were describing your wifes purchase of this
vehicle. Are these the posts you thought didn't make it?
I feel though like the same thing happened to me. I posted a big long
description about unloading my Deka AGM's and swapping in
6V GC's in my truck. I thought it was a good story but after sending it a few
times, changing some wording, changing the title
etc, etc, etc, I still never saw it post. But my "Test" and a few replies to
other posts made it. I fel like I'm on a very
censored, very Grey list.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You know, if you need a board made, that's not hard at all if the design
is consistent. Isn't they setup the same for everybody? It could have
a hole on the PCB to act as a terminal so the board can be bolted
straight on a terminal.
Those diode-in-terminal jobs are pretty slick though. That's hard to beat.
Danny
Storm Connors wrote:
Someone suggested using copper tubing. If you cut off a couple inches of 1/2
in tubing, stick 1 inch in a vise and squash it not quite all the way.
Put some nocorode paste on the zener leg and stick it in the flattened
part and finish squashing it flat. Wouldn't
need solder at all. Then drill the flat part. Any reason this wouldn't work?
----- Original Message ----
From: Paul G. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 7:30:47 PM
Subject: Re: Zener regs revisited
First, I want to thank everyone that has replied so far to this thread.
I'm getting a much better idea of how best to do this.
On Dec 21, 2006, at 8:03 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
MIKE WILLMON wrote:
Here are some pics of a batch I built several months ago to play with.
http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/Zener_Regs.pdf
That looks great, Mike!
I put the lamp in the center, with a 6" wire on each side of it to a
terminal. This gave me some flexibility, for example, to poke the
lamps into holes in the top of the battery box (though I didn't wind
up doing so).
I use a much heavier duty ring terminal. I slip a piece of heat shrink
over each one (red for +, black for -).
I took a look at this page too. The instructions where quite clear and
detailed (thanks Mike) but left me with a couple of questions.
First was the loose fit of the zener in the ring terminal. I visualized
this to be an almost snug fit so that the epoxy was minimal and the
terminal could function most effectively as a heat sink.
On a related note, I like the way the wire was soldered to the top of
the terminal. However, I would think the heat of soldering would damage
the zener if it had a snug fit inside the ring terminal.
Then again, looking around on the web I see suggestions on how to use a
toaster oven to solder SMD. They where baking the whole thing,
including a 68332 cpu (while carefully monitoring oven temp) for 5
minutes with a hold at 325F and a quick ramp to 450F! Can that really
be right? Could I "toast flow" a batch of zener regs?
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would be concerned about the oxidation of the copper eventually
ruining the connections between the copper and the leads of the
zeners. Anything in a battery box should be soldered if it's that small.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Someone suggested using copper tubing. If you cut off a couple
inches of 1/2
> in tubing, stick 1 inch in a vise and squash it not quite all the way.
> Put some nocorode paste on the zener leg and stick it in the flattened
> part and finish squashing it flat. Wouldn't
> need solder at all. Then drill the flat part. Any reason this
wouldn't work?
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Paul G. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 7:30:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Zener regs revisited
>
> First, I want to thank everyone that has replied so far to this thread.
> I'm getting a much better idea of how best to do this.
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2006, at 8:03 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
>
> > MIKE WILLMON wrote:
> >> Here are some pics of a batch I built several months ago to play
with.
> >> http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/Zener_Regs.pdf
> >
> > That looks great, Mike!
> >
> > I put the lamp in the center, with a 6" wire on each side of it to a
> > terminal. This gave me some flexibility, for example, to poke the
> > lamps into holes in the top of the battery box (though I didn't wind
> > up doing so).
> >
> > I use a much heavier duty ring terminal. I slip a piece of heat
shrink
> > over each one (red for +, black for -).
>
> I took a look at this page too. The instructions where quite clear and
> detailed (thanks Mike) but left me with a couple of questions.
>
> First was the loose fit of the zener in the ring terminal. I visualized
> this to be an almost snug fit so that the epoxy was minimal and the
> terminal could function most effectively as a heat sink.
>
> On a related note, I like the way the wire was soldered to the top of
> the terminal. However, I would think the heat of soldering would damage
> the zener if it had a snug fit inside the ring terminal.
>
> Then again, looking around on the web I see suggestions on how to use a
> toaster oven to solder SMD. They where baking the whole thing,
> including a 68332 cpu (while carefully monitoring oven temp) for 5
> minutes with a hold at 325F and a quick ramp to 450F! Can that really
> be right? Could I "toast flow" a batch of zener regs?
>
> Paul "neon" G.
>
> WAR IS PEACE
> FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
> IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
> George Orwell, "1984"
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are you using the blue one they have at all the auto parts stores? I've had a
few of them, which broke on me. Harbor Freight has a decent one I've been using
for a while. It's probably 50% larger so there's less refilling, and so far
it's been working really well. It probably does overfill a little bit, but it
starts to slow down and you can feel it do so and I stop it before it fully
shuts off and the fluid will be just below the filler neck.
Later,
Rick
92 Saturn SC conversion
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nope.
There is no simple solution to getting regen with a series wound motor.
The problem is, that in order to do regen you need to spin the motor
faster than it wants to go at a given voltage.
Series wound motors don't HAVE a top speed at a given voltage. The only
thing that keeps a series wound motor from accelerating up to self
distruct speed is the load on them. Remove the load and they WILL self
distruct.
At a small enough voltage, the load from friction is enough to keep them
in check. But you still cant do regen siply by spinning them faster then
this.
Hmm, let's see if I can explain this better.
I think the important thing to understand here is Back EMF. BEMF is the
voltage created inside a motor when the armature coils spin through a
magnetic field. With a PMDC motor this field is created by the magnets
and is at a fixed field strength, so the BEMF is directly proportional to
the RPM.
With a series wound motor, the stationary field is created by the current
running through the field coils. This is the SAME current that is running
through the whole motor since the armature and field are in series (hence
the name).
As the motor speeds up, the BEMF increases. This BEMF opposes the applied
current and causes your current to fall. As the current falls, the field
gets weaker (Field strength is directly linked to current), the weker
field causes less BEMF, which causes the motor to speed up, etc.
This only ends when the applied load causes enough drag to keep the motor
from speeding uppast the point where the power required ballances the
power applied.
If you remove the load and apply mechanical power to the motor (regen),
then it has in effect negative load which would try to create negative
power (no such thing).
You need to reverse the field relative to the armature, but now the
problem is that the generated power is wild and you have no control. The
motor tries to hit maximum regen right away. I.e. more current causes
more BEMF, which causes more current, etc. Their is no load to stop this
run away process because you are DRIVING the motor rather than loading it.
So you need to add a controller to control this run away process. No the
problem is that the brushes are in the wrong place. You want them
advanced for using the motor as a motor, but retarded to use it as a
generator. So you put the brushes in a neutral position, which isn't
really good for motoring or generating. So the motor tends to arc if the
current gets to high, plus efficiency drops a bit. And you don't get much
back from regen anyway, so over all your efficiency is about the same as
if you DIDN'T have regen. Plus now with regen your motor runs hot, tends
to arc, etc, etc.
This is why few people even bother with regen on series wound motors
(unless you are one of the few lucky ones with interpoles. they solve most
of the above problems)
> Thanks, Peter. I know my example wasn't regen, but I was trying to make
> my initial question as simple as possible. Once that was answered, my
> next question would be if you added a lower voltage battery pack and
> diode in series with the resistor. If the EV's traction pack were 144V,
> and the lower voltage pack was 24V would the motor start regenning as
> soon as you connected the lower voltage pack across the motor (as long
> as the back EMF was higher than the than the lower pack voltage), or
> would you need to excite the field?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:22 AM 23/12/06 -0300, Eduardo K wrote:
>
> It does NOT need the ET module, but I still do not know what the xxxx-xx01
> part of its' number means, it may be reverse or standard pot, it may be
> emergency reverse, there are several options in the manual that are
> "contact factory"
>
thanks. I'll watch it and see if it gos cheap enough to warrant
trying to fix it.
eBay is a strange place. sometimes you get a deal, sometimes
thigs get sold for more than tehy are avaliable new somewhere else...
Yes, I know. I've been keeping an eye out for a Curtis controller to play
with (anyone got any dead ones sitting around?), and most times the price
goes from a good deal to a price that is not much below wholesale in the
last few seconds.
The ones that have gone "cheap" have had pretty high freight costs
involved. I am going to have a go for the one you are looking at, since if
I can fix it as it is then I can use it on my forklift, but if I can
upgrade it to 72V I can use it for my planned trike project instead of the
GE-EV1 SCR controller that I have on-shelf. It is also already in Australia
(where I am) so freight is much lower.
As an FYI, the Curtis web site has a lot of user/installer manuals
available for free that give wiring up details as well as specs:
http://www.curtisinst.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=cDatasheets.dspListDS&CatID=1&siteID=1
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think I mentioned, these are AGMs. And they are not that old and I am
useing regs.
Their life: 3 months daily less than 30% DOD. 1 month off, 5 months
daily to 75% DOD.
How can the 2 buddied batteries not reach full compared to rest of
string if they all start out full.
ie lets us say that they are 20ah each and the main batteries are 30ah each.
I can't drive 40 ah I can only drive down 80% of the 30 so 24ah, but I
take 24ah out of all the main batteries and 12each or 24 out of the
buddy pairs.
When I go to charge them, Don't I just put 24ah+ back in? Doesn't the
smallest capacity battery cause a limit?(the singles) not the
largest?(the buddies).
If you use rudman regs how the heck do I calibrate them? the test pads
are gone!, Is it suggested to recalibrate them for temperature all the
time? If this is so important, maybe I should use the external temp
sensor? There was such a sharp and noticable drop in range when the
weather changed, Maybe they are not really getting fully charged. (meter
measures 14.99, but I need to verify meter cal)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Am I on the list, santa ?
Yes; you've been a very good boy this year. Lots of EV work. Ho, ho,
ho... :-)
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul G. wrote:
First was the loose fit of the zener in the ring terminal. I visualized
this to be an almost snug fit so that the epoxy was minimal and the
terminal could function most effectively as a heat sink.
Yes, it's better to have a snug fit. Even the best thermally conductive
epoxy is nowhere near as good as copper (but is far better than air).
On a related note, I like the way the wire was soldered to the top of
the terminal. However, I would think the heat of soldering would damage
the zener if it had a snug fit inside the ring terminal.
It's fine if you do it fairly quickly. That takes a big soldering iron.
Then again, looking around on the web I see suggestions on how to use
a toaster oven to solder SMD... Can that really be right? Could I
"toast flow" a batch of zener regs?
If you read the specs for most parts, they'll say something like "10
seconds" at soldering temperatures. A toaster oven setup is going to
exceed this by a LOT!
Now, what happens if you do it anyway? First, the parts drift. A 5.1v
zener can change to 5.2v after being "cooked" like this. Analog parts
like opamps will have considerable drift in their specs like input
offset voltage. The other problem is that excessive heat will damage the
seals between the leads and the plastic case. This has no immediate
effect, but will shorten the life of the part.
So, you can do it. Just don't expect the part's specs to be the same
afterward, and expect a shorter life expectancy.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Dec 22, 2006, at 6:59 PM, GWMobile wrote:
That solar train idea really has merit.
I don't see it, sorry.
To me, it makes far more sense to mount your solar panels on the
ground. That way you can point them for optimal power, you can have as
many as you want with no regard to the roof size of your train cars,
you can easily maintain them, you can store surplus power for use in
tunnels, cloudy days and at night, you can use backup sources (like the
grid or generators).
I wonder if their roof area would produce a net positive force to
overcome the individual car's total motion resistance.
Here's some back-of-the-envelope figuring. Please correct me if I'm
wrong.
Trolley car size: 66ft x 8ft, or about 49 square meters.
Insolation: between 1000 watts and 250 watts per square meter. Call it
750 watts to be generous, and because:
750 watts = 1 horsepower.
Maximum theoretical HP possible from sunlight falling on the roof of a
trolley car is therefore 49 HP. With 30% efficient solar cells, you'll
get 14.7 HP.
I found figures for trolley car HP requirements ranging from 241 to 600.
It looks to me like the power simply isn't there. If you cover the
roof of a rail car with solar cells, you only get about 1/20th the
power you need to move it.
In fact, you'd have a hard time moving a VW Bug with that little power.
This is why you don't see very many solar powered cars on the road.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well this post made it to the list.
On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 11:44 pm, Mike Willmon wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
When we first received delivery of the EV, I posted about twelve
emails,
spanning about two weeks, to the list expressing our excitement and
EV grins.
None of the email came through. With some experimentation, I found
that no email
would go through that mentioned the name of the EV, but, every email
that did
not mention the EV name went through just fine. So, I guess I can
only give
you clues... It is made in Ohio and the website is
www.myersmotors.com.
Hopefully this will go through...
Ken
Ken,
On 9/2/06 you started a thread with subject: "NmG dealership in
Texas!". That one turned out to be 31 posts 6 of which were
yours. In the first few you were describing your wifes purchase of
this vehicle. Are these the posts you thought didn't make it?
I feel though like the same thing happened to me. I posted a big long
description about unloading my Deka AGM's and swapping in
6V GC's in my truck. I thought it was a good story but after sending
it a few times, changing some wording, changing the title
etc, etc, etc, I still never saw it post. But my "Test" and a few
replies to other posts made it. I fel like I'm on a very
censored, very Grey list.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Phoenix Motorcars EVs using Altair Nanotechnologies Li-ion
pack)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.loe.org/shows/segments.htm?programID=06-P13-00050&segmentID=9
Driving Electric Air Date: Week of December 15, 2006
Phoenix Production Sport Utility Truck (SUT). (Phoenix Motorcars)
The electric car may not be dead. A number of small startup
companies are launching a new generation of electric vehicles.
Living on Earths Ingrid Lobet reports that one company called
Phoenix Motorcars will soon be offering an electric pickup truck
and an SUV that use a unique type of battery.
[Story ~6min audio mp3
http://stream.loe.org/audio/061215/061215carbattery.mp3 ]
GELLERMAN: When General Motors, Toyota, and Ford decided to pull
the plug on their electric vehicles, it seemed to toll a death
knell for cars powered by batteries.But there's still a charge
left in the fledgling technology. Today, there are a number of
small startups trying to resurrect the electric vehicle, though
most of the models are just for city-driving or very expensive.
But as Living on Earth's Ingrid Lobet reports, there is one car
company, called Phoenix Motorcars, that is rising above the
others, with plans to sell long-range, relatively affordable
electric vehicles - in the coming year a pickup truck, and an SUV
in 2008.
(BUZZING SOUND)
LOBET: In a building on the outskirts of Los Angeles, engineers
test and tweak Phoenix Motorcars' first run of electric sports
utility trucks. Salesman Brian Bliss points out the slanty
headlights framing a V-shaped black grill.
Phoenix Production Sport Utility Truck (SUT). (Phoenix
Motorcars) BLISS: It is similar in size to like a Chevy Colorado,
so this is a true mid-size truck vehicle, very roomy. It's a
little more round and edgier, much more futuristic-looking, than
a lot of boxy trucks have been historically. And the interest
with the looks and the capability has just been astronomical.
LOBET: Most electric cars - though not all - have been small,
like pumped up golf carts, or sporty two-seaters, but both
Phoenix models can fit 5 passengers plus cargo.
BLISS: These are full size cars, comparable to any gas powered
vehicle you'll see on the road today.
LOBET: Phoenix thinks it can offer a bigger car because it's
using a new battery. It gets its batteries from a chemicals firm
in Reno, Nevada - Altairnano. The company discovered a battery
chemistry that solves the not-so-little problem of lithium
batteries getting too hot and bursting into flames - like the
laptop batteries recently in the news. Phoenix CEO Dan Elliot:
ELLIOT: The lithium titanate, or nano-safe battery, removes the
carbon content from the battery, it takes the graphite out, and
by doing that, it cannot, because of its physical chemistry, get
into a thermal runaway issue, so you can't actually have that
tremendous heat up and then a fire like you see in a standard
lithium battery.
Phoenix Production Sport Utility Vehicle (SUV).(Phoenix
Motorcars)
LOBET: Altairnano says its next-generation lithium ion battery
solves a few other problems that may have helped kill the
electric car. With a high-powered charger - not something you
would have in your home - you can charge the car in less than 10
minutes, instead of 7 hours. And the batteries seem to last the
life of a vehicle - 20 years. Evan House directs the battery
program at Altairnano.
HOUSE: You can take the energy out very quickly and you can put
it back in very quickly and the life does not degrade. It's a
quantum leap, it's a paradigm-shifting leap.
A Miles OR70 demonstrates its zero pollution capability by
charging at a solar panel array at MCB Camp Pendleton. (Photo:
Miles Automotive Group) [OUTDOOR SOUNDS: Ian Boddy "Elemental"
from 'Elemental' (DIN - 2006)]
LOBET: Phoenix is starting to get the kind of celebrity attention
that startups can only dream of and that helped launch the Toyota
Prius a few years ago. Here actor Ed Begley praises the
Phoenix-Altairnano combo at a clean vehicle show on the Santa
Monica Pier.
BEGLEY: We have been waiting for the breakthrough batteries and I
believe it's happened with these wonderful lithium ion batteries
that do no have the graphite in them, it's totally different they
don't have the heat issues of lithium ion batteries have had. I
think we've found the Holy Grail of batteries.
LOBET: But Phoenix is still ironing out the kinks. Mechanics
worked down to the wire to have one SUV ready for reporters to
test-drive. They worked so long they had to leave the shop
without charging it, so they brought along their mobile charger.
But it turns out bringing a diesel generator onto the Santa
Monica pier for a clean car event is a no-no.
The idea of a new electric car and this new battery technology
does have its skeptics. Marshall Miller, Senior Development
Engineer at UC Davis' Institute for Transportation Studies is
one.
MILLER: Lithium Ion batteries have been around for a while and we
have tested them in our labs for at least five years now, and the
properties of the batteries, with the exception of cycle life,
have not changed significantly. The real problem has been the
cost, and potentially, the cycle life. The big question is, as
you bring the price down, how low can you get it? Is that price
low enough to be mass marketable? And I think that's something
that no one really knows at this point.
LOBET: Phoenix is selling its trucks and SUV's for 45 thousand
dollars, which will still be a loss for the company in the
beginning. Another question is whether Americans, just catching
on to hybrids, will want to buy an all battery car, even if it
can go as long on a charge as a car goes on a tank of gas,
because then you'd have to recharge. But Phoenix foresees a day
when you can go to the gas station for either a fill-up or a
charge up, and either would take the same time. Altairnano Senior
VP Roy Graham says major automakers are showing interest.
[CROWD ON A PIER]
GRAHAM: Given the technical characteristics of the batteries, all
of the hybrid manufacturers and the plug-in hybrids and all the
electric vehicle manufacturers are all over it, so you can assume
that we're talking to a lot of the major players as well.
LOBET: Phoenix Motorcars says it will deliver its first electric
pickups in the spring. They'll be available to municipal and
commercial fleets and go 100-130 miles on a charge. Consumers
will be able to buy the trucks and SUV's beginning in 2008. Those
vehicles will have a double-battery pack and go twice as far.
For Living on Earth, I'm Ingrid Lobet.
Living on Earth [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1-800-218-9988
20 Holland Street Suite 408, Somerville, MA 02144-2749
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Shandong Huoyan Electromobile City Spirit: a DC Smart
knock-off)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2006/12/17/chinese-electric-car-not-so-smart/
Chinese electric car not so smart
Posted on December 17th, 2006 by John Pospisil
They say that intellectual property laws are getting better in
China, but you have to wonder when you hear stories like this
one. Shandong Huoyan Electromobile, a small Chinese car maker,
has been forced to halt production of its City Spirit, a tiny
two-seat electric car, after DaimlerChysler threatened to take
legal action because the City Spirit looked too much like its
Smart car.
[image
http://www.blorge.com/images/Chineseelectriccarnotsosmart_13BF5/smartcar3.jpg
]
International business law 101: Dont copy competitors products
too closely if you expect to sell them in Western markets
According to a report on Autoweek, Shandong Huoyan Electromobile
used a toy model of the Smart to inspire the design of the City
Spirit. The cars were exactly the same length and many
components, such as the grill and rear window, looked identical.
While Smart is powered by a three-cylinder petrol or diesel
engine, the City Spirit was powered by a electric motor. Price
was an even bigger difference, with the City Spirit costing 4200
Euros in Europe, or about about half the price of the Smart car.
Shandong is revising the design of the City Spirits doors and
rear end. It will also be shorten by about 8 inches.
The City Spirit had been in production for the Chinese market
since August, and samples had been seen in Hungary and Britain,
where it was due to go on sale in early 2007.
What I find incredible about these stories is that there have
already been a number of cases where Chinese car manufacturers
have found themselves in trouble for ripping off overseas
designs.
Surely, if youre going to make the investment of designing,
producing and selling a car, especially if its for foreign
markets, youd spend at least a small amount of money on legal
advice about whether your design, being inspired by an existing
product, would cause problems.
But I guess that thats the point - Chinese business culture
still has a long way to go before it understands how Western
business conducts itself, and what exactly the rules of the game
are. Until then, Im sure theyll be many more embarrassing
stories like this one.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Palmer's cross-European Solartaxi trip)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/12/around_the_worl.html
Around the World in a Solar-Electric Three-Wheeler
10 December 2006 by Rafael Seidl
[image
http://bioage.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/solartaxi.png ]
The Solartaxi on its cross-European trip.
Ten years ago, Swiss adventurer Louis Palmer set himself the
ambitious goal of constructing a solar-powered three-wheeled
electric vehicle: the Solartaxi. Next year, he intends to drive
it around the world to educate people about global warming and
what can be done about it.
Since the projects inception, Palmer has enlisted the help of
four Universities, ten business partners and some 70 volunteers
(all located in Switzerland). The initial focus was on the
vehicle itself. The trailer with solar panels is to be added in a
second phase and deliver about 30% of the energy required.
[image
http://bioage.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/400solartaxi.jpg ]
The Solartaxi with proposed trailer.
Another 60% is produced by PV panels on the roof of Palmers
house and fed into the grid, offsetting electricity generated
using fossil fuels. The remaining 10% come from certified solar
power generation farms.
Powered by Swiss-made Zebra batteries, the resulting vehicle was
issued a roadworthiness certificate local authorities in June of
2006. Still rough around the edges of the interior (no upholstery
yet etc.), the plucky one-off looks vaguely like a pint-sized
Lamborghini Gallardo - except, its a trike.
This summer, Palmer and a mechanic friend took it for a 3,000-km
(1,865-mile) endurance test from Lucerne (Switzerland) to
Barcelona (Spain), through the Alps. The total elevation gain of
16,000 meters (presented no problems, with uphill speeds of up to
60 kph (37 mph). They had forgotten their toolchest, but in the
end they never needed it anyhow.
On the way, the vehicle attracted lots of thumbs-up from passing
motorists as well as occasional run-ins with the police who
apparently really just wanted to get a better look. With its
current range of approximately 200 km (124 miles) on a single
charge, Palmer enlisted the support of fire stations and even a
Ferrari dealership in Monte Carlo so he could recharge the
battery off the grid for a few hours at a time.
Once in Spain, he was charged a whopping 0.29 toll on the
motorwayplus a souvenir snapshot by the attendants digital
camera. In Barcelona, too, onlookers took many pictures with
their mobile phones. Palmer soon decided to get back on the open
road and just enjoy the sheer thrill of cruising through the
countryside in near-silence.
The upshot was that this little BEV that could managed to clock
some 8,500 problem-free kilometers in its first three months, at
a cost of ~ 1 per 100km for electricity from the gridnot
counting the amortization of the PV panels on Palmers roof. By
the time the round-the-world trip is due to start, June of 2007,
range on a single charge off the grid is to be extended to
350-400 km, thanks largely to the trailer. The interior will
feature leather seats and an MP3 sound system.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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