EV Digest 6239
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: I need to fix my EV
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Maximum grip lowest rolling resistance?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: NmG dealership in Texas! was RE: Zebra Purchase Warning
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: NmG dealership in Texas! was RE: Zebra Purchase Warning
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Maximum grip lowest rolling resistance?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: European EV cars pulling ahead ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: E-meter support board
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Zener regs revisited
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Batt Balancer v Zener Regs: was Zener regs revisited
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: E-meter support board
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Nissan Super Motor.
by "Alan Gideon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Zebra Purchase Warning
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Nice 72 volt Citi-car redo
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Nissan Super Motor.
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Maximum grip lowest rolling resistance?
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Maximum grip lowest rolling resistance?
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Zebra Purchase Warning/and more
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Wierd list events, was: Re: NmG dealership in Texas! was RE:
Zebra Purchase Warning
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Batt Balancer v Zener Regs: was Zener regs revisited
by "Reinkens, Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Wierd list events,
was: Re: NmG dealership in Texas! was RE: Zebra Purchase Warning
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> How can the 2 buddied batteries not reach full compared to rest of
> string if they all start out full.
>
> ie lets us say that they are 20ah each and the main batteries are 30ah
> each.
>
> I can't drive 40 ah I can only drive down 80% of the 30 so 24ah, but I
> take 24ah out of all the main batteries and 12each or 24 out of the
> buddy pairs.
>
> When I go to charge them, Don't I just put 24ah+ back in? Doesn't the
> smallest capacity battery cause a limit?(the singles) not the
> largest?(the buddies).
Nope. You have to put back in MORE than you take out. WIth new batteries
you have to put in about 10% more AH than you take out, as they age you
need to put back in more.
Also, the amount you have to put back varies depending on how deeply you
discharge them. Well, it varies pecentage wise.
The finishing charge (last 20% or so) is where most of the overcharging
occures. It gets a bit confusing when working with multiple batteries,
especially when they aren't discharged to the same point.
However, as I said, if your batteries are already dieing, then you can't
really hurt them anymore ('cause they are going to die anyway), so you can
abuse them all you want.
!!!!!!Now BEFORE YOU DOUBLE UP THE BATTERIES!!!!!
If the only problem is that the batteries are cold, and you start messing
with doubling up some of them, you could very will ruin a perfectly good
pack.
I strongly suspect your problem is cold batteries. If you don't already
have a battery temperature monitor, head over to Walmart, or your favorite
store, and pick up an automotive thermometer with remote external
monitoring (Usually a 15-20 foot long wire with a sensor on the end) put
the sensor down between two of your batteries (assuming the batteries are
wedged together) near the middle of the pack (physically speaking, not
necessarily the electrical middle).
If the batteries are below 80 degrees F you can expect to see diminished
range. If they are below 60 degree F you can expect to see DRASTICALLY
reduced range possibly 1/2 or less.
Adding 1" of styrofoam insulation around the pack and driving it daily
will usually be enough to warm it up and restore your range. If not,
consider adding some battery heaters.
Or you can wait to drive it until the weather warms up.
>
> If you use rudman regs how the heck do I calibrate them? the test pads
> are gone!, Is it suggested to recalibrate them for temperature all the
> time? If this is so important, maybe I should use the external temp
> sensor? There was such a sharp and noticable drop in range when the
> weather changed, Maybe they are not really getting fully charged. (meter
> measures 14.99, but I need to verify meter cal)
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Motorcycle tires have a curved bottom (so they can lean) this doesn't give
the best grip on vehicles that don't lean.
The best tread pattern for grip are "slicks", ie. no tread. That's why
racing tires don't usually have tread. Of course if you have wide tires,
treadless tires can experience hydroplaning when traveling through
puddles.
Most of the tires I've seen that are designed to have the lowest RR, have
little or no tread. Then again LRR tires don't usually have the best grip
(adequate is usually what you hope for)
As long as the tread isn't very deep (i.e. knobbies) I don't think tread
pattern has much effect on RR.
I don't think looking at tread patterns is of any use when selecting a
tire for either grip or LRR.
> Hi Guys and gals,
>
> Can I ask for opinions on choosing a good set of shoes for an EV? My
> miniEl seems to have the original tire on the front but some
> motorcycle style wheels on the back. Apparently they should all be
> the same. At the moment I'm experiencing a really bad grip on the
> rear wheels which I think it down to the tread pattern of the rear
> tires.
>
> What sort of tread patterns give reasonable grip whilst maintaining
> low rolling resistance? Discuss.... ;)
>
> Nikki.
>
> _______________________________
> Old car? New tricks?
> Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
>
> E-minor isn't just a key any more...
> _______________________________
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think the EVDL even has the capability to censor emails.
You're ISP might be doing it, though I can't think of why.
Most likely it was just some kind of technical glitch. I'll bet you can
post a message right now that mentions SParrows, or whatever, and not have
any problem with it getting through.
> get through. Many of the October post replies were rather negative so I
> suspected emails from me on that subject got censored? No idea really. I
> just
> found that if I included any reference to the October announcement, it
> would not
> go through.
>
> Ken
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: NmG dealership in Texas! was RE: Zebra Purchase Warning
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 12:32:46 -0700 (MST)
I don't think the EVDL even has the capability to censor emails.
You're ISP might be doing it, though I can't think of why.
Most likely it was just some kind of technical glitch. I'll bet you can
post a message right now that mentions SParrows, or whatever, and not have
any problem with it getting through.
Of course he can, but then that takes all the fun out of believing he is
being censored. Personally I always include a special code in upper ASCI
characters that defeats all known censorship schemes :-)
damon
_________________________________________________________________
Experience the magic of the holidays. Talk to Santa on Messenger.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0080000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/santabot/default.aspx?locale=en-us
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Nikki,
The rolling resistance depends upon on the tire compound, the deflection
rate and the load rating on the tire at a certain psi tire pressure.
First thing you should do, is to weigh the EV on the front axle, rear axle
and for reference the whole EV weight.
Now you must find the weight on each wheel. Divide the front axle weight by
two to find the weight on each front wheel. Also divide the rear axle by
two to find the weight on each rear wheel.
The tire compound you want is a poly glass type. Some of the poly tires may
have some nylon and steel in it. You want hardly no nylon, but the steel
may be ok.
The problem with a high content nylon tire, is that when the tires sets for
awhile, it develops a flat spot which takes several miles to round out. In
a cold climate it may never round out causing increase resistance.
The next thing that increases the rolling resistant of a tire, is not
applying the correct load rating of the tire at a certain air pressure. In
choosing a tire, read the specs on the side of the tire.
Lets say its reads 1000 lbs load rating @ 40 PSI. If your EV weight is
4000 lbs and axles weight is at 2000 lbs for a 50;50 weight ratio EV front
to rear, than each wheel will have about 1000 lbs on them.
At 1000 lbs on this tire, then the air pressure should be at 40 PSI. It is
best to have a little more load rating on the tire, because as the vehicle
brakes or accelerates, it will transfer more vehicle weight on one of the
axles.
Adjusting the correct deflection rate:
I normally will do the initial deflection test at the tire dealer, which
they either jack the entire car off grade of one axle. Its convenient to
adjust the air pressure at this time, any maybe the tire installer will
learn something.
After installing the tires and still off grade, have them air up the tires
to the maximum load reading @ psi that is on the side of the tire.
Now, lower the tire, so it just touches the floor, and measure from the
floor to the bottom of the wheel rim. Lets say the side wall of the tire
measures 4 inches.
Lower the tire to grade so the entire weight of the vehicle is on grade and
measure between these reference points again. Lets say the side wall reads
3.5 inches.
This is a 0.5 inch deflection rate which is too much. The deflection rate
should not go over 5% or it should be about 0.2 inch. A high deflection of
the side wall will increase you tire resistance to the surface.
If you EV wheel weight matches the load rating on the side of the tire and
still deflects too much, then its not the right tire. Try a higher load
rating tire and test again.
I spend about a year to research tires and then testing to find the best
ones for my EV. The tire for my EV may not be the correct one for another
EV. I am running a tire that is rated for 2800 lbs @ 80 psi. I adjust the
rears for 2350 lbs @ 65 PSI and the fronts at 1200 lbs @ 40 lbs which gives
me 50 motor amps less than a nylon tire that become so stiff and develop a
flat spot because of age.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "nikki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:34 AM
Subject: Maximum grip lowest rolling resistance?
> Hi Guys and gals,
>
> Can I ask for opinions on choosing a good set of shoes for an EV? My
> miniEl seems to have the original tire on the front but some
> motorcycle style wheels on the back. Apparently they should all be
> the same. At the moment I'm experiencing a really bad grip on the
> rear wheels which I think it down to the tread pattern of the rear
> tires.
>
> What sort of tread patterns give reasonable grip whilst maintaining
> low rolling resistance? Discuss.... ;)
>
> Nikki.
>
> _______________________________
> Old car? New tricks?
> Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
>
> E-minor isn't just a key any more...
> _______________________________
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "GWMobile":
>> That solar train idea really has merit. Might have to be a light
>> passenger train but it is an interesting concept. I wonder how
>> many horse power it takes to move the average train car. I
>> wonder if their roof area would produce a net positive force
>> to overcome the individual car's total motion resistance.
Michael Perry wrote:
Solar has a problem paying off, especially in mobile applications.
Unlike stationary appications, these cells can't be kept pointed
at the sun. Freight cars are privately owned. They have enough
problems keeping the brakes working at 50%, much less hooking up
all these electric connections. There is also the problem of filth
involved with boxcars.
Yes, there are lots of problems applying solar to trains. As designed
now, trains are massively heavy, and take thousands of horsepower. The
cost alone would prevent the railroads from considering it. They want
the lowest cost solution; not the most environmental one.
However, electric trains make sense, and are still widely used. The
electric power for them could of course come from solar (or wind or
hydro). As fuel costs go up, it's possible that we might see a shift
from diesel to electric railroads (but I doubt it; the railroads are
unbelievably resistant to change).
From a strictly engineering standpoint, a train has enough roof area to
generate enough power for an extremely lightweight version (VERY light
rail). Think of it as a solar car on rails -- they can do 60 mph on
sunlight.
If you like the idea, you might try an experiment with a model train
set. Maybe you can get one for Christmas? :-)
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Bath wrote:
It seems to me that one thing that would make our
lives a bit nicer would be a circuit board that came
with on-off switch, an LED, fuse, some spade
connectors, and integrated the DCDC converter and
prescaler.
Anyone interested in contributing their design
expertise? Are other EVers with E-meters just doing
their own perfboards/wire wrap, etc.?
You may get your wish for Christmas. I designed just such a board, which
I call the E-Meter Companion. I ordered the first batch about 2 weeks
ago. They are due in any time! Features:
- A 2" diameter round board that mounts on the back of the
E-meter/Link-10 using the 8 pin terminal block and 9-pin
serial interface connector. (If you don't have the serial
connector, add one -- the pads are already there).
- DC/DC converter to power the E-meter: Gets power from your
vehicle's 12vdc grounded system, and provides isolated 12v
power to run the E-meter.
- Prescaler: On-board 100v and 500v prescalers, jumper selectable.
- Serial port isolator: Provides an optically isolated RS-232
output of the E-meter's serial data (if your meter has this
option).
- Simplified wiring: All connections are made to the Companion
board (none to the E-meter itself). The Companion has a wire
lead for the positive pack high voltage, a 3-wire connector
to the shunt, and an optional 4-wire connector with the
E-meter's isolated +12v power, Common, Temperature sensor,
and Alarm outputs.
The biggest fight was the blasted DC/DC converter. I've had a devil of a
time getting high enough isolation to survive people's bad-boy and
non-isolated chargers. I wound up designing my own. We'll see how well I
did when the boards get tested!
I didn't want to announce it until I'm ready to ship, as I'm so far
behind on things. But this one is getting close!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
You know, if you need a board made, that's not hard at all if the design
is consistent. Isn't they setup the same for everybody? It could have
a hole on the PCB to act as a terminal so the board can be bolted
straight on a terminal.
You need to be careful with this. The fiberglass PC board material is
compressible when it gets hot. A screw that you tighten today may not
stay tight! Same sort of problem we have keeping bolted lead terminals
tight.
Storm Connors wrote:
Someone suggested using copper tubing. If you cut off a couple inches
of 1/2 in tubing, stick 1 inch in a vise and squash it not quite all
the way. Put some nocorode paste on the zener leg and stick it in the
flattened part and finish squashing it flat. Wouldn't need solder at
all. Then drill the flat part. Any reason this wouldn't work?
It would work short term. But I have my doubts about how long it would
last around battery acid.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Reinkens, Kirk wrote:
I may have missed some distinctions or places that describe both
more completely. Could someone share a quick overview of the use
and operating characteristics of both the Battery Balancer and
the Zener Regs? What are the key features/benefits of the two items?
I'll try.
The fundamental problem is that batteries are not the same. They vary in
amphour capacity, internal resistance, self-discharge rate, and other
factors. These differences are small when new, but get larger as the
batteries are used.
Your application can also cause differences between batteries. Some
might be warmer than others, or you may have different loads on each
(series/parallel switching setups, or taps to run some accessory, or
just random leakage current loads due to dirt or water on the battery tops).
If you ignore the differences (i.e. pretend all batteries are
identical), then you need to deliberately overcharge them all to bring
the weaker ones up to "full". Also, the weaker ones go dead earlier,
which limits your range and shortens battery life. These cycles of
overcharging and overly deep discharges shortens life; the pack dies early.
So, all battery balancing is an attempt to compensate for the
differences between batteries, so they last longer and give you more range.
1. Shunt regulators
These put some kind of switchable load (resistor, light bulb, etc.)
across a battery to prevent overcharging. They only work while charging,
so they don't extend range.
The amount of correction is determined by how much current they draw
times the length of time they are on. For example, to reduce a battery's
charging by 2 amphours, a shunt regulator could draw 2 amps for 1 hour,
1 amp for 2 hours, 0.5 amps for 2 hours, etc.
Shunt regulators convert the excess charging energy into heat. This heat
has to be dealt with, so it doesn't burn something up. Due to the heat,
shunt regulators lower efficiency, and are quite limited in the amount
of balancing they can do (they can't handle seriously out of balance
batteries).
Shunt regulators are cheap and simple. The Rudman regulators, and my
zener-lamp regulators are all shunt regulators. Almost all lithium cell
regulators are shunt regulators.
2. Charge-shuttling regulators
These use some kind of DC/DC converter to transfer energy from higher
batteries to lower batteries. They can work any time; while charging,
driving, or even while parked.
These regulators can apply much larger amounts of correction, because
they can handle more current and operate for long periods of time. Since
they can work while driving, they can boost a weak battery and therefore
improve your range (range is no longer limited by the weakest battery).
The Badicheq, Powercheq, and my Battery Balancer are examples of
charge-shuttling regulators. The Badicheq handles 2 amps total; the
Powercheqs about 1 amp per battery; my Battery Balancer about 15 amps total.
Charge shuttling regulators are more complicated and expensive, but do
more to extend battery life.
3. Monitoring systems
These do nothing by themselves to correct problems; but they monitor
each battery individually to alert you of problems. Most Balancing
systems provide some form of monitoring.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> - A 2" diameter round board that mounts on the back of the
> E-meter/Link-10 using the 8 pin terminal block and 9-pin
> serial interface connector. (If you don't have the serial
> connector, add one -- the pads are already there).
>
Lee
Unfortunately I don't have the serial connection on my eMeter. I've been
looking but haven't found
anyone selling them. Do I NEED to have the serial connection for you add-on
board? Does it give me
additional funtionality? I really like the isolation your board will provide,
are there other
benefits for my non-serial eMeter?
Thanks
Dave Cover
PS Does anyone know how to make the eMeter signal a PFC-30 that it's time to
taper down. For
instance, when the amp hours have been returned, start the timer on the charger
that usually is
looking for a voltage level to trip.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry about the double post.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:24 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; SFEVA;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Nissan Super Motor.
http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/INTRODUCTION/DETAILS/SUPER-MOTOR/
index.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Peter and All,
He probably talking about the Fed DOT rules
that you must have DOT approved brake hoses, ect. I forget
the other things one needs to have approved on any road
vehicle being imported.
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Zebra Purchase Warning
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 10:10:08 -0700 (MST)
>> Peter-
>>
>> The only attempt here was to provide some info that is
>> fact not rumor and is very reliable. It does not matter
>> what a sate or states allow if the vehicle has been
>restricted from being imported.
>
>Yes but you haven't provided any "facts". I have to wonder
>why you are so reluctant to post "facts".
>
>> The real
>> purpose of my post was to help potential buyers make a
>> better decision- I won't be specific here on the details
>> so everyone can speculate all they want until an entirely
>new rumor surfaces.
>
>Hmm, good idea, let's not waste bandwidth on specific
>details or facts.
>
>--
>If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of
>legalistic junk at the end; then you are specifically
>authorizing me to do whatever I wish with the message. By
>posting the message you agree that your long legalistic
>signature is void.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.geocities.com/hemirrhoid/citipage.html
http://geocities.com/hemirrhoid/citiphotos.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When will it be in a vehicle ??
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/INTRODUCTION/DETAILS/SUPER-
MOTOR/index.html
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My miniEl seems to have the original tire on the front but some
motorcycle style wheels on the back. Apparently they should all be the
same. At the moment I'm experiencing a really bad grip on the rear
wheels which I think it down to the tread pattern of the rear tires.
What sort of tread patterns give reasonable grip whilst maintaining low
rolling resistance? Discuss.... ;)
The MiniEl/CityEl used Grimeca Moped wheels all round. As I recall these
were 1.85" by 16". That really limits your choice to Moped tyres. There
really isn't much published technical information on these tyres. The only
genuine low rolling resistance option would be Michelin Solar Racer tyres,
but they won't sell you any and they're of dubious legality. Most tyres in
this size are going to be lower rolling resistnace, simply because of the
type of vehicle to which they're fitted.
If your tyres are of any age, then they've probably lost most of the
plasticisers in the rubber and just replacing them will make a difference to
the grip. There should be a number moulded into the side wall (negative
impression rather than positive) which is the date code. The first digit (or
pair of digits if after 2000) is the year and the next pair is the week of
manufacture, so 916 would be the 16th week of 1999. Certain countries have
an absolute limit on the age of a tyre and you have to replace them after
about 10 years. Quite a lot of discounted tyres are old stock. Tread
patterns for on-road tyres have more to do with marketing than anything
else.
On other thing to check is the rear axle. The CityEl has a solid back axle
with no differential, but one back wheel is driven direct, whilst the other
wheel is driven via friction plates and a stack of belville washers. If this
clutch is worn, then you've only got propper drive to one back wheel
Paul Compton
www.evguru.co.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.bvs.org.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Paul!
(Hope you're better now, btw!)
The Friction clutch on the El should be okay because It's only done
1200 miles! But I'll check the tyres :) I may actually end up getting
some sent over from some friends in Germany.
Nikki.
DC [EMAIL
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Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Zebra Purchase Warning/and more
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 15:09:31 -0800
To: [email protected]
Here is what I will tell you on the list, if you NEED more info you
can contact me directly but please don't just out of curiosity only
if you are serious about purchasing. Many containers of Zebras have
been pulled off the shipping docks and being restricted from entering
the US at this time. There is going to be more effort put in to
stopping vehicles that are unsafe and don't comply with regulations
for a multitude of reasons even if it just means they are deemed
"unsafe", this includes all the other EV clones, etc. It does not
matter if your local DMV is ignorant to what can be legitimately
registered as many vehicles get through all the time. If you DMV
makes a call about this vehicle to DOT with a registration question
it will most likely be denied. This is happening now and is a federal
not a state issue so you can classify anything any way you want but
many vehicles get registered as a result of luck and ignorance on the
part of the DMV individual and not because they should.
M
On Dec 21, 2006, at 10:19 AM, jerryd wrote:
>
> Hi Peter and All,
> He probably talking about the Fed DOT rules
> that you must have DOT approved brake hoses, ect. I forget
> the other things one needs to have approved on any road
> vehicle being imported.
> Jerry Dycus
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Zebra Purchase Warning
> Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 10:10:08 -0700 (MST)
>
>>> Peter-
>>>
>>> The only attempt here was to provide some info that is
>>> fact not rumor and is very reliable. It does not matter
>>> what a sate or states allow if the vehicle has been
>> restricted from being imported.
>>
>> Yes but you haven't provided any "facts". I have to wonder
>> why you are so reluctant to post "facts".
>>
>>> The real
>>> purpose of my post was to help potential buyers make a
>>> better decision- I won't be specific here on the details
>>> so everyone can speculate all they want until an entirely
>> new rumor surfaces.
>>
>> Hmm, good idea, let's not waste bandwidth on specific
>> details or facts.
>>
>> --
>> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of
>> legalistic junk at the end; then you are specifically
>> authorizing me to do whatever I wish with the message. By
>> posting the message you agree that your long legalistic
>> signature is void.
>>
>
>
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 09:50:10 +1100
To: [email protected]
From: James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Wierd list events, was: Re: NmG dealership in Texas! was RE:
Zebra Purchase Warning
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 12:32 PM 23/12/06 -0700, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>I don't think the EVDL even has the capability to censor emails.
>
>You're ISP might be doing it, though I can't think of why.
>
>Most likely it was just some kind of technical glitch. I'll bet you can
>post a message right now that mentions SParrows, or whatever, and not have
>any problem with it getting through.
>
> > get through. Many of the October post replies were rather negative so I
> > suspected emails from me on that subject got censored? No idea really.
G'day All
I had an interesting event regarding the EVDL about six months ago,
essentially I stopped getting posts completely. Attempting to fix this
revealed that for some reason messages from either me or my ISP were being
blocked from even reaching the SJSU server, and all messages from the SJSU
server to me were blocked. I believe that the SJSU server will
automatically stop sending for a while to an address that gets 'bounce'
messages to cope with full mail boxes, etc, so this was probably triggered
in my case by whatever was blocking.
My ISP could 'see' the SJSU server, but of a bunch of "query" type messages
that I sent to the SJSU server, only a couple got through and were replied
to, but the reply never made it back. One of the ones that made it through
was an "un-subscribe" message, followed by a re-subscribe that never made
it, so I got removed as a subscriber at that point, but couldn't tell.
After about three weeks I was able to subscribe again, and all becomes back
to normal.
As far as I could work out, it wasn't an antivirus thing, it *may* have
been an anti-spam thing at an intermediate router, but there was nothing to
confirm that. The SJSU (which stands for San Jose State University, I
believe) who hosts the EVDL do a thing (most of the time) where they strip
attachments as an anti-virus measure, and operate some kind of anti-spam
front end (you'll notice no messages for making your bodily parts larger,
etc? that tells me they operate an anti-spam front end). So it may be that
if you get blocked some, you are using something that is an anti-spam key
word, the particular key words presumably change as the spammers do.
What I don't know about my situation is why the SJSU list control messages
didn't get through, since they are apparently all logged, spam and all, yet
most from me were missing. The ones that got through were responded to, but
the responses never made it back to me. My ISP's anti-spam was not blocking
SJSU, and could see no reason for this to be happening.
So, any message censorship is likely to be unintentional, and in my case
for unknown reasons. Individual messages that don't make it are likely to
be from someone whose ISP or webmail service has been grey-listed and
contain 'suspect' words (I believe that this is the delay-in-showing issue
that comes up from time to time) or you are using words or phrases that are
'black listed'.
So Peter is right in a way, the system doesn't censor emails, but in
another way it does, thanks to the spammers and the necessary response to
them.
So all:
Have a happy and safe Christmas, summer solstice, winter solstice, new year
or whatever is celebrated in your part of the world this season.
and STOP LETTING THE PLASMA ARCS LOOSE. We need all the EVers we can get,
with as little adverse publicity as possible.
Regards
[Technik] James
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boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C726E8.383D6295"
Subject: RE: Batt Balancer v Zener Regs: was Zener regs revisited
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 15:15:22 -0800
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Reinkens, Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
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Lee,
Thank you very much! That is about what I expected. It seems that the =
shunt regulators might be a good starting point for a beginner. If one =
is willing sacrifice some efficiency you could protect your 1st pack =
while "learning" a little more about how the batteries can vary in =
real-world use. Of course, you have to actually watch the pack charge to =
learn those lessons. If I start with a well balanced pack, I might get =
quite an education before stepping up to the charge shuttling and =
montoring which are certainly great things.
=20
Do you think that is reasonable?
Kirk
=20
=20
________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Lee Hart
Sent: Sat 12/23/2006 11:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Batt Balancer v Zener Regs: was Zener regs revisited
Reinkens, Kirk wrote:
> I may have missed some distinctions or places that describe both
> more completely. Could someone share a quick overview of the use
> and operating characteristics of both the Battery Balancer and
> the Zener Regs? What are the key features/benefits of the two items?
I'll try.
The fundamental problem is that batteries are not the same. They vary in
amphour capacity, internal resistance, self-discharge rate, and other
factors. These differences are small when new, but get larger as the
batteries are used.
Your application can also cause differences between batteries. Some
might be warmer than others, or you may have different loads on each
(series/parallel switching setups, or taps to run some accessory, or
just random leakage current loads due to dirt or water on the battery =
tops).
If you ignore the differences (i.e. pretend all batteries are
identical), then you need to deliberately overcharge them all to bring
the weaker ones up to "full". Also, the weaker ones go dead earlier,
which limits your range and shortens battery life. These cycles of
overcharging and overly deep discharges shortens life; the pack dies =
early.
So, all battery balancing is an attempt to compensate for the
differences between batteries, so they last longer and give you more =
range.
1. Shunt regulators
These put some kind of switchable load (resistor, light bulb, etc.)
across a battery to prevent overcharging. They only work while charging,
so they don't extend range.
The amount of correction is determined by how much current they draw
times the length of time they are on. For example, to reduce a battery's
charging by 2 amphours, a shunt regulator could draw 2 amps for 1 hour,
1 amp for 2 hours, 0.5 amps for 2 hours, etc.
Shunt regulators convert the excess charging energy into heat. This heat
has to be dealt with, so it doesn't burn something up. Due to the heat,
shunt regulators lower efficiency, and are quite limited in the amount
of balancing they can do (they can't handle seriously out of balance
batteries).
Shunt regulators are cheap and simple. The Rudman regulators, and my
zener-lamp regulators are all shunt regulators. Almost all lithium cell
regulators are shunt regulators.
2. Charge-shuttling regulators
These use some kind of DC/DC converter to transfer energy from higher
batteries to lower batteries. They can work any time; while charging,
driving, or even while parked.
These regulators can apply much larger amounts of correction, because
they can handle more current and operate for long periods of time. Since
they can work while driving, they can boost a weak battery and therefore
improve your range (range is no longer limited by the weakest battery).
The Badicheq, Powercheq, and my Battery Balancer are examples of
charge-shuttling regulators. The Badicheq handles 2 amps total; the
Powercheqs about 1 amp per battery; my Battery Balancer about 15 amps =
total.
Charge shuttling regulators are more complicated and expensive, but do
more to extend battery life.
3. Monitoring systems
These do nothing by themselves to correct problems; but they monitor
each battery individually to alert you of problems. Most Balancing
systems provide some form of monitoring.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C726E8.383D6295"
Subject: RE: Batt Balancer v Zener Regs: was Zener regs revisited
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 15:15:22 -0800
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Reinkens, Kirk--
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 17:07:08 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Wierd list events,
was: Re: NmG dealership in Texas! was RE: Zebra Purchase Warning
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I don't think this list uses any spam filtering, at least I've never heard
that it does.
Spammers are lazy. TO spam this list they'd have to subscribe to it, then
resubscribe every thing they got kicked off (which would happen each time
they spammed the list)
That's too much work. Spammers these days prefer to use zombie systems to
mail out their garbage to thousands of email addresses. They vary the
content etc to get around spam filters, which makes simple context based
filters pretty much useless.
They can't post to the list, so instead they harvest email addresses from
it and spam the individual email addresses. I block dozens of spam emails
each day o this address.
The list does block attachments (by choice of the list admin, and it's a
good choice).
The list will also stop sending to a particular address if it sees to many
bounced emails. However, it usually starts up again in a day or two.
> At 12:32 PM 23/12/06 -0700, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>>I don't think the EVDL even has the capability to censor emails.
>>
>>You're ISP might be doing it, though I can't think of why.
>>
>>Most likely it was just some kind of technical glitch. I'll bet you can
>>post a message right now that mentions SParrows, or whatever, and not
>> have
>>any problem with it getting through.
>>
>> > get through. Many of the October post replies were rather negative so
>> I
>> > suspected emails from me on that subject got censored? No idea
>> really.
>
> G'day All
>
> I had an interesting event regarding the EVDL about six months ago,
> essentially I stopped getting posts completely. Attempting to fix this
> revealed that for some reason messages from either me or my ISP were being
> blocked from even reaching the SJSU server, and all messages from the SJSU
> server to me were blocked. I believe that the SJSU server will
> automatically stop sending for a while to an address that gets 'bounce'
> messages to cope with full mail boxes, etc, so this was probably triggered
> in my case by whatever was blocking.
>
> My ISP could 'see' the SJSU server, but of a bunch of "query" type
> messages
> that I sent to the SJSU server, only a couple got through and were replied
> to, but the reply never made it back. One of the ones that made it through
> was an "un-subscribe" message, followed by a re-subscribe that never made
> it, so I got removed as a subscriber at that point, but couldn't tell.
> After about three weeks I was able to subscribe again, and all becomes
> back
> to normal.
>
> As far as I could work out, it wasn't an antivirus thing, it *may* have
> been an anti-spam thing at an intermediate router, but there was nothing
> to
> confirm that. The SJSU (which stands for San Jose State University, I
> believe) who hosts the EVDL do a thing (most of the time) where they strip
> attachments as an anti-virus measure, and operate some kind of anti-spam
> front end (you'll notice no messages for making your bodily parts larger,
> etc? that tells me they operate an anti-spam front end). So it may be that
> if you get blocked some, you are using something that is an anti-spam key
> word, the particular key words presumably change as the spammers do.
>
> What I don't know about my situation is why the SJSU list control messages
> didn't get through, since they are apparently all logged, spam and all,
> yet
> most from me were missing. The ones that got through were responded to,
> but
> the responses never made it back to me. My ISP's anti-spam was not
> blocking
> SJSU, and could see no reason for this to be happening.
>
> So, any message censorship is likely to be unintentional, and in my case
> for unknown reasons. Individual messages that don't make it are likely to
> be from someone whose ISP or webmail service has been grey-listed and
> contain 'suspect' words (I believe that this is the delay-in-showing issue
> that comes up from time to time) or you are using words or phrases that
> are
> 'black listed'.
>
> So Peter is right in a way, the system doesn't censor emails, but in
> another way it does, thanks to the spammers and the necessary response to
> them.
>
> So all:
> Have a happy and safe Christmas, summer solstice, winter solstice, new
> year
> or whatever is celebrated in your part of the world this season.
>
> and STOP LETTING THE PLASMA ARCS LOOSE. We need all the EVers we can get,
> with as little adverse publicity as possible.
>
> Regards
>
> [Technik] James
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
