EV Digest 6240
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Dual AC55 setup, coupler...
by "Matthew Drobnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: A couple of EV's on trading post
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Wierd list events, was: Re: NmG dealership in Texas! was
RE: Zebra Purchase Warning
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) How do I finish off charging flooded PbA cells ?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Important! ZEV waiver approval by CARB
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Zener regs revisited
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: E-meter support board
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: I need to fix my EV
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Excited about Excitation
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Zebra Purchase Warning/and more
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Zebra Purchase Warning/and more
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) 180 V charger
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Wierd list events, was: Re: NmG dealership in Texas! was RE: Zebra
Purchase Warning
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Possible to series wire controllers?
by "Garret Maki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) What would be a good battery configuration.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Maximum grip lowest rolling resistance?
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all. I'm looking into the Solectria AC55 based system (RFE drivetrain)
that was posted on the EVDL about a week or so ago. Two questions:
How much do you think the dual motor setup is worth?
Who can create a coupler to couple it to the input shaft of a transmission?
I figure between that system, and the NiMH battery info that was posted a
few weeks ago...It'd make a nice conversion for me. :-)
Thanks,
-Matt
(Same Matt Drobnak @ optonline.net....having some EVDL greylisting problems,
so I'm trying from gmail)
PS Anyone able to get in contact with Steve Powers lately? I've tried
emailing him from my optimum & a yahoo account...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 3k that vw bug has twice the amount money in parts in it. EVen if the
body was gone I'd be worth it for the parts alone. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Powers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 8:32 AM
Subject: A couple of EV's on trading post
> Not mine, but someone looking for an entry level vehicle should look.
>
>
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/index.php?method=showdetails&list=advertisement&rollid=1317&fromfromlist=classifiedscategory&fromfrommethod=showhtmllist&fromfromid=17
>
>
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/index.php?method=showdetails&list=advertisement&rollid=1316&fromfromlist=classifiedscategory&fromfrommethod=showhtmllist&fromfromid=17
>
> Personelly, I like the bug as a starter vehicle. It has a decent
charger and heat. Parts available. Good platform.
>
> The 007 is what it is. Probably will go cheap. In that condition, I'd
say its worth $750. 2x that total once it is shipped unless you are close.
Needs work, but still an all around decent EV if fixed up. I used to have
one. A little on the heavy side with 20 batts, and the EV-1 controller
should go, but other than that an all around decent 1st EV.
>
> Maybe Santa will bring you an EV if you ask nicely and were good this
year.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll share a bit of my experience in hope that it
clarifies the situation.
On several occasions have I not been able to email to
another email system.
In all those cases was it due to my email being blocked
due to blacklisting of the domain of the company that I
work for (and which has nothing to do with EVs by the way)
The reason for blacklisting was that spammers used my
(or colleages) email in the "From" address of spam, so
the reports of spam caused our company to end up on the
blacklist (or more often, on a grey list of temporarily
blocked traffic until verified).
Working with the proper authorities has always
re-established communication (I could not email my
church for weeks due to their filter, in which I was
blacklisted, though I could send them email via Hotmail...)
Anyway, another event where I received list traffic only
after 2 days was a hiccup in the email server connection
to the internet at work, which caused so many bounces
that the SJSU server queued all messages to me for the
2-day period, after which I receved them all.
Intermediate routers between you and the SJSU server may
filter/block traffic, but it is not common, though your ISP
may be able to tell what they do and don't do.
More likely is a filter on your outgoing messages, I have
had occasions where I wanted to report Phishing attempts
(impersonating my bank to log in for maintenance) and the
OUTgoing email to the abuse account of my bank was blocked by
the server at work, because it already had updated its filter
and recognised the info in the email I was forwarding to
the bank and deleted it.
You can see this when checking the outgoing message list.
Hope this clarifies,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 4:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Wierd list events, was: Re: NmG dealership in Texas! was
RE: Zebra Purchase Warning
I don't think this list uses any spam filtering, at least I've never heard
that it does.
Spammers are lazy. TO spam this list they'd have to subscribe to it, then
resubscribe every thing they got kicked off (which would happen each time
they spammed the list)
That's too much work. Spammers these days prefer to use zombie systems to
mail out their garbage to thousands of email addresses. They vary the
content etc to get around spam filters, which makes simple context based
filters pretty much useless.
They can't post to the list, so instead they harvest email addresses from
it and spam the individual email addresses. I block dozens of spam emails
each day o this address.
The list does block attachments (by choice of the list admin, and it's a
good choice).
The list will also stop sending to a particular address if it sees to many
bounced emails. However, it usually starts up again in a day or two.
> At 12:32 PM 23/12/06 -0700, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>>I don't think the EVDL even has the capability to censor emails.
>>
>>You're ISP might be doing it, though I can't think of why.
>>
>>Most likely it was just some kind of technical glitch. I'll bet you can
>>post a message right now that mentions SParrows, or whatever, and not
>> have
>>any problem with it getting through.
>>
>> > get through. Many of the October post replies were rather negative so
>> I
>> > suspected emails from me on that subject got censored? No idea
>> really.
>
> G'day All
>
> I had an interesting event regarding the EVDL about six months ago,
> essentially I stopped getting posts completely. Attempting to fix this
> revealed that for some reason messages from either me or my ISP were being
> blocked from even reaching the SJSU server, and all messages from the SJSU
> server to me were blocked. I believe that the SJSU server will
> automatically stop sending for a while to an address that gets 'bounce'
> messages to cope with full mail boxes, etc, so this was probably triggered
> in my case by whatever was blocking.
>
> My ISP could 'see' the SJSU server, but of a bunch of "query" type
> messages
> that I sent to the SJSU server, only a couple got through and were replied
> to, but the reply never made it back. One of the ones that made it through
> was an "un-subscribe" message, followed by a re-subscribe that never made
> it, so I got removed as a subscriber at that point, but couldn't tell.
> After about three weeks I was able to subscribe again, and all becomes
> back
> to normal.
>
> As far as I could work out, it wasn't an antivirus thing, it *may* have
> been an anti-spam thing at an intermediate router, but there was nothing
> to
> confirm that. The SJSU (which stands for San Jose State University, I
> believe) who hosts the EVDL do a thing (most of the time) where they strip
> attachments as an anti-virus measure, and operate some kind of anti-spam
> front end (you'll notice no messages for making your bodily parts larger,
> etc? that tells me they operate an anti-spam front end). So it may be that
> if you get blocked some, you are using something that is an anti-spam key
> word, the particular key words presumably change as the spammers do.
>
> What I don't know about my situation is why the SJSU list control messages
> didn't get through, since they are apparently all logged, spam and all,
> yet
> most from me were missing. The ones that got through were responded to,
> but
> the responses never made it back to me. My ISP's anti-spam was not
> blocking
> SJSU, and could see no reason for this to be happening.
>
> So, any message censorship is likely to be unintentional, and in my case
> for unknown reasons. Individual messages that don't make it are likely to
> be from someone whose ISP or webmail service has been grey-listed and
> contain 'suspect' words (I believe that this is the delay-in-showing issue
> that comes up from time to time) or you are using words or phrases that
> are
> 'black listed'.
>
> So Peter is right in a way, the system doesn't censor emails, but in
> another way it does, thanks to the spammers and the necessary response to
> them.
>
> So all:
> Have a happy and safe Christmas, summer solstice, winter solstice, new
> year
> or whatever is celebrated in your part of the world this season.
>
> and STOP LETTING THE PLASMA ARCS LOOSE. We need all the EVers we can get,
> with as little adverse publicity as possible.
>
> Regards
>
> [Technik] James
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been watching the threads about charging and sort-of understand but
need some further information if anyone doesn't mind.
I understand the idea behind just bulk charging to 80% whatever condition
the battery is in, but then you need a slower charge rate to finish with.
Does this finish charge absolutely need to be a constant current or a
constant voltage cycle ? Or could I pulse switch my charger ?
For example, my charger can give 40Amps, If I need to charge at a 10Amp rate
is it permissible to charge at 40A for 1 second and then have no charge for
the next three seconds......or I suppose 'average' the charge period, and what
effect might this have overall ?
I'm asking because the only charger I have is 72V at 40Amp,....I could build
something else but, I already have what i need to pulse charge this beast
and the control software to do it.
On another note........
I am looking into balancing and seeing how important it is. I'v efound the
following document to be of great use, and although it is mainly about LI-ion
pack maintenance I am sure the techniques would work equally as well for other
cell types, some of the time at least (!)
_http://www.americansolarchallenge.org/tech/resources/SAE_2001-01-0959.pdf_
(http://www.americansolarchallenge.org/tech/resources/SAE_2001-01-0959.pdf)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi GW and All,
Good find!! This is very important as this
board rules Cal, 10 other states and EV's!! Their earlier
rulings are what brought us the EV's of the late 90's like
the RAV4EV, EV-1, ect. their capitulation was what stopped
EV's again!! Now it looks like they are going EV mandate
again and a reason for recent big auto talks about EV
projects.
Anyone with inside knowledge on this?
If true, Car makers will have to build 10's of
thousands EV's/yr!!!!
Jerry dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Fw: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] (fwd) OT: Sawyer
comment on ZEV waiver approval
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:30:55 -0500
>Subject: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] (fwd) OT: Sawyer
>comment on ZEV waiver approval
>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 14:42:47 -0700
>
>
>Don't know how to judge if this is hot air, but I hope it's
>not.
>
>http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/nr122206.htm
>
>
>California Environmental Protection Agency
>NEWS RELEASE
>
>Air Resources Board
>
>
>Release 06-37
>
>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>December 22, 2006
>
>CONTACT:
>Jerry Martin
>Gennet Paauwe
>(916) 322-2990
>www.arb.ca.gov
>
>Statement by California Air Resources Board Chairman Dr.
>Robert Sawyer on
>USEPAÆs Approval of CaliforniaÆs Waiver Request for
Zero
>Emission Vehicles
>
>California received an early Christmas present from
>Washington today in the form of a waiver for our Zero
>Emission Vehicle regulations. With this
>waiver, California and the other ten
>states that have adopted our ZEV regulations can expect
>emission-free vehicles powered by fuel cells or batteries
>on their roads starting by 2009.
>
>The waiver also allows California to enforce its
>requirement for other near zero technologies, such as
>hybrid electric vehicles or the increasingly popular
>Partial Zero Emission Vehicles (PZEVs). These gasoline
>powered vehicles are armed with the worldÆs cleanest
>tailpipe standard, zero evaporative emission technology and
>a 15 year, 150,000 mile
>warranty on emission control
>equipment. Already, there are hundreds of thousands of
>these popular, modest priced cars on the roads and this
>waiver assures us of millions more within the next few
>years.
>
>This is a real Christmas gift for all of us. All
>Californians will breathe easier because of this measure
>and the technology that makes these
>clean cars possible can now be made available to everyone.
>
>Dr. Robert Sawyer,
>Chairman,
>California Air Resources Board
>
>
>--
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>"Mark Abramowitz"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Community Environmental Services
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>RAV4-EV mailing list
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/rav4-ev
>
>
>
>www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes,
>globalwarming and the melting poles.
>
>www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you Lee. Your knowledge of electronics is most helpful.
I've changed out parts on circuit boards a few times and built a few
homemade items on pref board; however, my actual knowledge of soldering
is not great. I got a Rat Shack 30 watt iron and whatever electronics
solder they had and went for it (and when I needed to change a small
item with lots of pins I bought a solder sucker from Rat Shack.)
In addition to building a set of zener/lamp regs I'm trying to increase
my knowledge in this area. You know, build it right instead of just
hack it together. I hope my questions aren't getting tiring...
On Dec 22, 2006, at 11:25 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
On a related note, I like the way the wire was soldered to the top of
the terminal. However, I would think the heat of soldering would
damage the zener if it had a snug fit inside the ring terminal.
It's fine if you do it fairly quickly. That takes a big soldering iron.
What is "big" in this situation? I'm am looking at a 80 watt iron with
a 3/8 flat tip.
I had a powerful old iron for years, bought it at a garage sale for a
couple of bucks. Big and poorly balanced (very nose heavy) with a
turned wooden handle and a 3/8th inch flat tip. 250 watts was only a
guess on my part, there was nothing readable on it. It finally died a
few years ago, prompting the purchase of the Rat Shack iron I have now.
By comparison the new iron is slow (to not possible) for work larger
than soldering pins into a PC board.
Then again, looking around on the web I see suggestions on how to use
a toaster oven to solder SMD... Can that really be right? Could I
"toast flow" a batch of zener regs?
If you read the specs for most parts, they'll say something like "10
seconds" at soldering temperatures. A toaster oven setup is going to
exceed this by a LOT!
Yeah, that is the only soldering number I ever really paid attention to
myself. The specs say 230C for 10 seconds 1/16th inch from the case for
soldering, and operation and storage at up to 200C (392F!) Some solders
melt below that temp (I'm not sure about making a good joint below that
temp.)
Now, what happens if you do it anyway? First, the parts drift. A 5.1v
zener can change to 5.2v after being "cooked" like this. Analog parts
like opamps will have considerable drift in their specs like input
offset voltage. The other problem is that excessive heat will damage
the seals between the leads and the plastic case. This has no
immediate effect, but will shorten the life of the part.
Clearly that is not where I want to go. Knowing that I am a soldering
amateur (though I have been successful at it so far) I am wondering it
I should be hacking a second hand toaster over so I can hold it to 195C
and finding a suitable low temp solder paste or hand solder with the
zener body right on the other side of the contact.
On that note, I could use a brief tutorial on solder alloys and flux
choices. Perhaps there is a worthy web site I should visit or book I
should read? My Rat shack roll is 60/40 rosin core 0.05 inch diameter.
I notice that 63/37 has a slightly lower melting temp and more brief
"plastic" stage (and both are readily available.) I understand almost
nothing about flux choice right now except that RA (mildly activated
Rosin) seems to be most common for electronics (and that there are many
choices.)
Merry Christmas,
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
Lee
Unfortunately I don't have the serial connection on my E-Meter...
Do I NEED to have the serial connection for your add-on board?
You don't need it, except that the serial connector has two screw
terminals that assist in mounting the Companion board. If your E-meter
doesn't have the serial connector, then I would suggest getting a 9-pin
right angle D connector, and soldering it to the E-Meter. It won't work
as a serial port, but will support the Companion board.
The Companion's DC/DC and prescaler still work normally. There won't be
any serial data on the Companion's RS-232 connector, of course; but you
still use the RS-232 connector to connect 12v power and ground to it.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
I think I mentioned, these are AGMs. And they are not that old
and I am using regs. Their life: 3 months daily less than 30% DOD.
1 month off, 5 months daily to 75% DOD.
How many cycles do you think you have on them? 3 months x 30 days = 90
cycles; then 5 months daily is 150 cycles, for a total of 240 cycles.
That's just about right for AGMs with no battery management.
How can the 2 buddied batteries not reach full compared to rest of
string if they all start out full.
Because a battery's charge/discharge efficiency changes with current.
Suppose you had 3 identical batteries. You connect #1 and #2 in
parallel, and then #3 in series. If you discharged them all in series,
#3 would reach dead first (because it has half the amphour capacity of
#1 and #2 in parallel. Now charge them all in series. You'd think they
would all reach "full" at the same time.
But they won't! #3 actually got discharged more than twice as much, due
to the Peukert effect. #3 will also charge slower, because it is being
charged at twice the current relative to #1 and #2. So #3 will hit
"full" well before the other two; it will go over voltage, start
gassing, and do all the other things that happens when batteries are
overcharged.
Meanwhile, #1 and #2 will get discharged less deeply, and will have a
higher charging efficiency due to the lower charging rate. If the
charger shuts off when the voltage rises due to #3 going into
overcharge, #1 and #2 won't get enough time to reach "full".
The result is that imbalances are not corrected on each charge cycle,
Instead, they persist and can even get bigger.
There was a sharp and noticable drop in range when the weather
changed. Maybe they are not really getting fully charged.
That's possible, if your charger keeps using the same endpoint voltage
despite the batteries being cold.
Or, cold batteries have a higher internal resistance and fewer amphours.
So you have to drive slower and can't go as far before the voltage sags
to your endpoint voltage (1.75v/cell or whatever).
Ultimately, you're going to have to do some testing on individual
batteries under controlled conditions to know what's going on. Let one
warm up, and measure its amphours at a couple of known load currents.
See what its capacity and internal resistance are. Is it bad, showing
signs of under- or over-charging, or just cold?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
There is no simple solution to getting regen with a series wound motor.
Pretty much true; at least, it's not simple to get *controlled* regen
from a series motor.
The problem is, that in order to do regen you need to spin the motor
faster than it wants to go at a given voltage.
Not quite. Spinning a series motor faster just makes its current drop;
it doesn't become a generator. To understand a series motor's
characteristics as a generator, you first have to understand its
characteristics as a motor.
Suppose you connect a series motor directly to a battery (fixed voltage):
To make it become a series generator, you have to do ONE of three
things; reverse the field wires, OR reverse the armature wires, OR spin
it backwards from the direction it wants to run as a motor.
When you do, you'll find that its performance is exactly the same as it
was as a motor, EXCEPT that the direction of the current flow is
reversed (i.e. it generates power instead of consuming it). Here's what
happens if you again connect it straight to a battery:
- at 0 rpm, it draws a HUGE current, and produces a HUGE braking
torque (i.e. you get peak braking torque near zero speed!
It usually melts wiring or breaks things. This can happen
if you are rolling backwards in a forward gear, and
accidentally step on the throttle).
- at low rpm, it generates a large current, and produces a large torque
- at medium rpm, it generates medium current and medium torque
- at high rpm, it generates a low current, and low torque
- at no load, rpm is VERY high and current is very low
(i.e. shifting into reverse while going 60 mph forward
generates almost no braking current, but will explode the
motor form excessive speed)
This is backwards from what "common sense" says -- but once you think
about it, this behavior is exactly analogous to what it does as a motor.
Worse yet, the generator situation is unstable. As a motor, a series
motor naturally settles out at a certain speed, where its current draw
(and thus torque) exactly balances the torque needed to maintain that
speed. If the vehicle slows, the motor slows, which makes it draw more
current, which makes more torque, which pushes you BACK toward the
original speed.
But as a generator, this effect works backwards. If you slow down, you
get MORE generated current, which slows you down faster, which only
makes things worse. It won't smoothly coast down a hill; it will either
try to "slam on the brakes" and stop you immediately, or quickly diverge
to no braking force at all.
Thus, the controller for a series generator is very tricky. It is trying
to balance something that is FIGHTING to avoid being balanced.
the [other] problem is that the brushes are in the wrong place.
You want them advanced for using it as a motor, but retarded
to use it as a generator. So you put the brushes in a neutral
position, which isn't really good for motoring or generating.
So the motor tends to arc if the current gets to high, plus
efficiency drops a bit. And you don't get much back from regen
anyway, so overall your efficiency is about the same as if you
DIDN'T have regen. Plus now with regen your motor runs hot,
tends to arc, etc, etc.
This is why few people even bother with regen on series wound
motors (unless you are one of the few lucky ones with interpoles.
they solve most of the above problems)
Interpoles solve the brush position problem; but they don't change the
odd unstable behavior of a series generator. This still has to be dealt
with by the controller.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark, why so secretive? What is it that makes you want to hold back on
information about the Zebras?
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
---------------------------------------------------
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong
man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit
belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short
again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming,
but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself
for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high
achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while
daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid
souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
Sent: December 23, 2006 3:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Zebra Purchase Warning/and more
Here is what I will tell you on the list, if you NEED more info you can
contact me directly but please don't just out of curiosity only if you are
serious about purchasing. Many containers of Zebras have been pulled off the
shipping docks and being restricted from entering the US at this time. There
is going to be more effort put in to stopping vehicles that are unsafe and
don't comply with regulations for a multitude of reasons even if it just
means they are deemed "unsafe", this includes all the other EV clones, etc.
It does not matter if your local DMV is ignorant to what can be legitimately
registered as many vehicles get through all the time. If you DMV makes a
call about this vehicle to DOT with a registration question it will most
likely be denied. This is happening now and is a federal not a state issue
so you can classify anything any way you want but many vehicles get
registered as a result of luck and ignorance on the part of the DMV
individual and not because they should.
M
On Dec 21, 2006, at 10:19 AM, jerryd wrote:
>
> Hi Peter and All,
> He probably talking about the Fed DOT rules that you
> must have DOT approved brake hoses, ect. I forget the other things one
> needs to have approved on any road vehicle being imported.
> Jerry Dycus
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Zebra Purchase Warning
> Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 10:10:08 -0700 (MST)
>
>>> Peter-
>>>
>>> The only attempt here was to provide some info that is fact not
>>> rumor and is very reliable. It does not matter what a sate or states
>>> allow if the vehicle has been
>> restricted from being imported.
>>
>> Yes but you haven't provided any "facts". I have to wonder why you
>> are so reluctant to post "facts".
>>
>>> The real
>>> purpose of my post was to help potential buyers make a better
>>> decision- I won't be specific here on the details so everyone can
>>> speculate all they want until an entirely
>> new rumor surfaces.
>>
>> Hmm, good idea, let's not waste bandwidth on specific details or
>> facts.
>>
>> --
>> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of
>> legalistic junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me
>> to do whatever I wish with the message. By posting the message you
>> agree that your long legalistic signature is void.
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
See my reply to you
On Dec 23, 2006, at 6:06 PM, Don Cameron wrote:
Mark, why so secretive? What is it that makes you want to hold
back on
information about the Zebras?
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
---------------------------------------------------
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how
the strong
man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The
credit
belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is
marred by
dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes
up short
again and again, because there is no effort without error or
shortcoming,
but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who
spends himself
for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the
triumph of high
achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails
while
daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold
and timid
souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
Sent: December 23, 2006 3:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Zebra Purchase Warning/and more
Here is what I will tell you on the list, if you NEED more info you
can
contact me directly but please don't just out of curiosity only if
you are
serious about purchasing. Many containers of Zebras have been
pulled off the
shipping docks and being restricted from entering the US at this
time. There
is going to be more effort put in to stopping vehicles that are
unsafe and
don't comply with regulations for a multitude of reasons even if it
just
means they are deemed "unsafe", this includes all the other EV
clones, etc.
It does not matter if your local DMV is ignorant to what can be
legitimately
registered as many vehicles get through all the time. If you DMV
makes a
call about this vehicle to DOT with a registration question it will
most
likely be denied. This is happening now and is a federal not a
state issue
so you can classify anything any way you want but many vehicles get
registered as a result of luck and ignorance on the part of the DMV
individual and not because they should.
M
On Dec 21, 2006, at 10:19 AM, jerryd wrote:
Hi Peter and All,
He probably talking about the Fed DOT rules that you
must have DOT approved brake hoses, ect. I forget the other things
one
needs to have approved on any road vehicle being imported.
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Zebra Purchase Warning
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 10:10:08 -0700 (MST)
Peter-
The only attempt here was to provide some info that is fact not
rumor and is very reliable. It does not matter what a sate or
states
allow if the vehicle has been
restricted from being imported.
Yes but you haven't provided any "facts". I have to wonder why you
are so reluctant to post "facts".
The real
purpose of my post was to help potential buyers make a better
decision- I won't be specific here on the details so everyone can
speculate all they want until an entirely
new rumor surfaces.
Hmm, good idea, let's not waste bandwidth on specific details or
facts.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of
legalistic junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me
to do whatever I wish with the message. By posting the message you
agree that your long legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I've come up with a charger for my 180 V system. It is a cross of a bad boy and
Lee's Bonn charger. I think my logic is right, but just to be sure, I'm asking
for feedback on how I can improve it.
Since my system is 180 v, a regular 120 v bad boy won't work. What I have done
is parallel a regular 120 v bad boy charger and the concept and values of Lee's
Bonn charger. A 120 bad boy with just a rectifier puts out 168v max so to get
up to my 180 v for float/charge/equalize, I need 30, 53 and 66 more volts. I've
paralleled Lee's Bonn Inductor (which may become a Transformer) to get the
required voltage. I may add more taps for the ability to charge packs with less
voltage to give me more flexibility.
Here is an ASCII schematic, as usual view it with a fixed font.... It is too
long for this email so I cut it in half.
___ D1
S1 | | S2 ____
Hot____/____| G |__/_____________o__ _|AC +|__________o_____
| | | | | | | |
120vac Neutral_____| F | C1_|_ | | | | | CONT -
| | --- Fan | | | |
Gnd_________| I |____|____|__o___|____|AC -|_______o__|_____
_|_ |___| | | |____| | |
/// | |- - - - | |
| | | | | |
| 30 53 66 | |
| o o o D2 | |
| \ ____ | |
| L1 o____|AC +|__|__|
| | | |
|_____________| |__o
|AC -|
|____|
Fuse _
____/\ ________________________________| |
\/ __|__ |+|
CONT - |Volts| | |Anderson
|150 -| | | Plug
| 250| | |
____ |_____| | |
_______|AMPS|________________|__________|-|
|0-15| |_|
|____|
S1 is a 15 amp breaker to turn everything off
S2 is a 240vac 20amp 0-12 hour mechanical timer. Can be set to maximum charging
time to automatically shut off when done.
C1 is a 5-10uf 220vac or more motor run capacitor.
D1 and D2 are bridge rectifiers, 400V 35 amp min.
L1 is the Inductor, or it may become a transformer that has taps which will
give me the values, 20v, 53v and 66v that I need.
The switch for the different voltages is a toggle switch, 120vac 15amp minimum
with at least 3 positions, maybe more depending on my inductor/transformer taps
(for more flexibility)
Fuse is a 250vdc 15 amp fuse.
Amp meter will read 0-15 amps
Volt meter will read 150-250 volts.
And lastly an Anderson connector.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Posted Sat, 12/23/2006 8:30 pm MT
I have had problems also... Many of the posts sometimes take up to 3 days to
get to me. It seems that the last SJSU server will keep them for days and then
release them to my mail server.
Here is part of one header -
Received: from metis.sjsu.edu [130.65.3.15] by dpmail10.doteasy.com with ESMTP
(SMTPD32-8.05) id ADAD26D700A4; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 20:16:45 -0800
Received: from listproc (hera.sjsu.edu [130.65.3.19])
by metis.sjsu.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.13.1) with SMTP id kBK3TWYa008615;
Tue, 19 Dec 2006 19:29:32 -0800 (PST)
which shows that metis.sjus.edu got the email on Tue, 19 Dec 2006 19:29:32
-0800 (PST) and released it on Fri, 22 Dec 2006 20:16:45 -0800. It kept the
email for 3 days.
Also if you look in the headers you will see that there is line in some of the
headers
- X-Greylist: Delayed for 00:15:11 by milter-greylist-3.0 (hestia.sjsu.edu
[130.65.3.74]),
or it is
- X-Greylist: Sender DNS name whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0
so there is a 'censoring' in place.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 3:50 PM
Subject: Wierd list events, was: Re: NmG dealership in Texas! was RE: Zebra
Purchase Warning
> At 12:32 PM 23/12/06 -0700, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>>I don't think the EVDL even has the capability to censor emails.
>>
>>You're ISP might be doing it, though I can't think of why.
>>
>>Most likely it was just some kind of technical glitch. I'll bet you can
>>post a message right now that mentions SParrows, or whatever, and not have
>>any problem with it getting through.
>>
>> > get through. Many of the October post replies were rather negative so I
>> > suspected emails from me on that subject got censored? No idea really.
>
> G'day All
>
> I had an interesting event regarding the EVDL about six months ago,
> essentially I stopped getting posts completely. Attempting to fix this
> revealed that for some reason messages from either me or my ISP were being
> blocked from even reaching the SJSU server, and all messages from the SJSU
> server to me were blocked. I believe that the SJSU server will
> automatically stop sending for a while to an address that gets 'bounce'
> messages to cope with full mail boxes, etc, so this was probably triggered
> in my case by whatever was blocking.
>
> My ISP could 'see' the SJSU server, but of a bunch of "query" type messages
> that I sent to the SJSU server, only a couple got through and were replied
> to, but the reply never made it back. One of the ones that made it through
> was an "un-subscribe" message, followed by a re-subscribe that never made
> it, so I got removed as a subscriber at that point, but couldn't tell.
> After about three weeks I was able to subscribe again, and all becomes back
> to normal.
>
> As far as I could work out, it wasn't an antivirus thing, it *may* have
> been an anti-spam thing at an intermediate router, but there was nothing to
> confirm that. The SJSU (which stands for San Jose State University, I
> believe) who hosts the EVDL do a thing (most of the time) where they strip
> attachments as an anti-virus measure, and operate some kind of anti-spam
> front end (you'll notice no messages for making your bodily parts larger,
> etc? that tells me they operate an anti-spam front end). So it may be that
> if you get blocked some, you are using something that is an anti-spam key
> word, the particular key words presumably change as the spammers do.
>
> What I don't know about my situation is why the SJSU list control messages
> didn't get through, since they are apparently all logged, spam and all, yet
> most from me were missing. The ones that got through were responded to, but
> the responses never made it back to me. My ISP's anti-spam was not blocking
> SJSU, and could see no reason for this to be happening.
>
> So, any message censorship is likely to be unintentional, and in my case
> for unknown reasons. Individual messages that don't make it are likely to
> be from someone whose ISP or webmail service has been grey-listed and
> contain 'suspect' words (I believe that this is the delay-in-showing issue
> that comes up from time to time) or you are using words or phrases that are
> 'black listed'.
>
> So Peter is right in a way, the system doesn't censor emails, but in
> another way it does, thanks to the spammers and the necessary response to
> them.
>
> So all:
> Have a happy and safe Christmas, summer solstice, winter solstice, new year
> or whatever is celebrated in your part of the world this season.
>
> and STOP LETTING THE PLASMA ARCS LOOSE. We need all the EVers we can get,
> with as little adverse publicity as possible.
>
> Regards
>
> [Technik] James
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Looking for a 96 volt controller for a motorcycle there aren't too many
options.
48v parts are plentiful. Is it possible to hook up 2 controllers in
series? I know you can will most battery chargers, not sure if it held
for PWM controllers too.
Thanks,
Garret
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
PS on my previous battery question I know I have to put in more than I
take out, I put a + after the 24. I meant though that I can put into the
buddy pair the same as the non buddied battery, it shouldn't matter if a
battery is more capacity than the rest, it should only be an issue with
one is significantly less.
I have been working on a design to connect a bunch of A123 cells
together into EV pack sizes. I am working on the design to facilitate
the balancer circuit design.
I have worked out a few options on balancing and monitoring and wanted
to ask the opinions of this list.
What would you people like to see.
Idea 1 : a 7"x5" footprint 8" high with one mounting hole down the
center at 13.2Vnominal and 36.8Ah. Consider it 1/2 an orbital. Two would
fit in the space of 1 orbital
Idea 2 : a 7 x 10 x 8 orbital sized 13.2V x 73.6Ah (too much capacity
to buy for most conversions by the time I get a good system voltage?)
Idea 3 : a " " 26.4V x 36.8Ah (Same
as two off the first just a little money and connections saved)
Or a little less conventional
same size 19.8V @ 48.3ah (better target Ah but non-standard voltage.)
or wild ideas
a 12 level (max cells of chipset) 40V nominal battery balance
module/backplane 10" tall by 15" long(seperate out the balancer from the
cells)
A series of 10" high x 15" by 2" thick slices of 18ah each that
attach to the side and have high power strapping at the end and a cabled
balancing buss between slices.
A master/slave setup
a grid made of 5"x7"x8" blocks arranged in a three rows 18ah 13.2V
slices can add to them to vary the capacity.
36ah +18ah +18ah ...
__________ ____ ____
| Master || || |
| || || |
| row 1 || || | 1 orbitals of space
| || || |
| || || |
|_________||____||____|
__________ ____ ____
| Slave || || |
| || || |
| row 2 || || |
| || || |
| || || |
|_________||____||____|
__________ ____ ____
| Slave || || |
| || || |
| row 3 || || |
| || || |
| || || |
|_________||____||____|
36ah +18ah +18ah ...
I am trying to come up with a sub module that can be combined in
different ways to make these and other configurations.
I am using the assumption of 250Wh/mile and 50Mile Goal @80% DOD to
arrive at 16kwh desired pack (using the 48.3's that is 331V or 25
modules at about 21lbs each.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Maximum grip lowest rolling resistance?
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 13:38:00 -0500
Motor cycle tires are rounded because they must be able to bank. Therefore
they have a smaller contact patch and less grip.
You need tire with a flatter profile to the road..
The width of the tire (not the contact patch) and air pressure determines
most of the rolling resistance.
So the more narrow the wheel generally the less resistance but the profile
should be square to the road.
Hi, GW
Can you tell me why you think this is so ( that narrower tires have lower
RR)? Other people here have said that also, but I'm looking for some
technical justification or reliable reference.
For bicycle tires ( I ride a recumbent, and recumbent riders, in general,
are quite concerned with tire RR) most everyone believes that, for a given
tire pressure, wider tires have lower rolling resistance. I wonder if (and
why) it might be different for car tires.
Thanks
Phil
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--- End Message ---
