EV Digest 6247
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Low Rolling Resistance tire law
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Low Rolling Resistance Tires - B381
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Manzanita micro PCF-20 charger
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Manzanita micro PCF-20 charger
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Manzanita micro PCF-20 charger
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Final tally: 2.3 years; 7,128 miles before murder. New strategies for
next USB pack
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) OT: Bio-Gas generator
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: IRS taxes, EV mileage, cost effectiveness building, selling EV's
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: OT: Bio-Gas generator
by "Doc Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) DC Motor question....
by "Joe Plumer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Final tally: 2.3 years; 7,128 miles before murder. New strategies for
next USB pack
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Scales and weighing vehicles (was Re: Needing Tires
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: DC Motor question....
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Wrong motor direction for Joe Sixpack Geo Metro EV
by "Darin - MetroMPG.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Weighing vehicles
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: DC Motor question....
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: OT: Bio-Gas generator
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: OT: Bio-Gas generator
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: DC Motor question....
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: DC Motor question....
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Low Rolling Resistance Tires - B381
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Manzanita micro PCF-20 charger
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Zener regs revisited
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
I expect that the TigerPaws are still available - these
are the OEM tires for the S10 US Electricar.
BTW - I hear a lot of good things about Hydroedges, even
though they are not very low RR, they seem to give a good ride.
I have no complaints about the Sumitomo HTR200 either, this
is the cheapest of the list of LRR tires, currently available
for about $43.
My next tire I may try the B381 but that should be many
years away...
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 12:41 PM
To: US Electricar; EVDL
Subject: Low Rolling Resistance tire law
In the spirit of less lore and more data, below are several references
about LRR tires.
This one has tires by manufacturer and their LRR coefficient.
http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/sr/SR286Rolling_Resistance_Data.pdf
Here is a very long paper on LRR tires.
http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/sr/sr286.pdf
Here is a summary that is very short.
http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/sr/sr286TRNewsSummary.pdf
Here is a LRR tire law passed in California, coming to a state near
you:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/2005publications/CEC-999-2005-016/CEC-999-2005-016.
PDF
The Green Geal testing data is great but just try and find a tire on
that list that you can still buy.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Low Rolling Resistance Tires - B381
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 00:55:07 -0800
Hi Phil,
How do you like the tire [ Bridgestone B381]?
(Are you already on the road with it?)
No - I haven't even had them mounted yet. When I get them on the road, I'll
post my impressions.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop.
http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oops, sorry Rich - just went to the website ans answwered my own question!!
Thanks!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 6:12 AM
Subject: Re: Manzanita micro PCF-20 charger
> Rich, I have a question about the input voltage on the PFC chargers. Can
you
> use them at 120V and 240V both on the same charger (not at the same time,
of
> course!) I have a customer that needs to fast charge sometimes, but most
of
> the time will be using a standard outlet. Or can a PFC-20 be made/modified
> with a switchable input for 2 different voltages?
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 11:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Manzanita micro PCF-20 charger
>
>
> > I think the list pretty much has answered your questions.
> >
> > But You should know that We here at Manzanita Micro are on this list and
> you
> > can always ask us directly.
> >
> > Most of my distributors are on here also.. and about 300 of my
> customers....
> >
> >
> > So.. feel free to ask..
> >
> > Yes you can turn down a PFC charger. It's one of the main features, A
> large
> > AMPS knob that allows you to set the ouput current from full power to
Zero
> > power and anywhere in between.
> >
> > The Peak voltage .. or the maximum voltage the charger will allow, is
set
> by
> > the Volts Trim setscrew. It's intentionally harder to get to, Because
you
> > don't want to bump this setting by mistake or have it adjusted by
mistake.
> > This can be set from 12 to 450 volts...and anywheres in between.
> >
> > When you are in voltage control mode.. IE you batteries are fully
> charged,
> > The current is automatically tapered back to hold the voltage at the
> > setpoint. So you can set a 2 amp current and restrict it to not more
than
> > say 191 volts.. This is a perfect end of charge point for 13 Optima Yts.
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 2:42 PM
> > Subject: Manzanita micro PCF-20 charger
> >
> >
> > > Hi everyone
> > >
> > > I was reading about the manzanita micro charger on a web page and it
> said
> > > that you could turn the current down on it for lower capacity
batteries.
> I
> > > was wondering if i could turn it down far enough so that i could use
it
> as
> > a
> > > trickle charger to top off my batteries, does anyone think that would
> > work.
> > > Also how does the charger know what voltage of a pack i am chargeing.
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Off to school, going on a trip, or moving? Windows Live (MSN)
Messenger
> > lets
> > > you stay in touch with friends and family wherever you go. Click here
to
> > > find out how to sign up! http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date:
> 12/26/2006 12:23 PM
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich, I have a question about the input voltage on the PFC chargers. Can you
use them at 120V and 240V both on the same charger (not at the same time, of
course!) I have a customer that needs to fast charge sometimes, but most of
the time will be using a standard outlet. Or can a PFC-20 be made/modified
with a switchable input for 2 different voltages?
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Manzanita micro PCF-20 charger
> I think the list pretty much has answered your questions.
>
> But You should know that We here at Manzanita Micro are on this list and
you
> can always ask us directly.
>
> Most of my distributors are on here also.. and about 300 of my
customers....
>
>
> So.. feel free to ask..
>
> Yes you can turn down a PFC charger. It's one of the main features, A
large
> AMPS knob that allows you to set the ouput current from full power to Zero
> power and anywhere in between.
>
> The Peak voltage .. or the maximum voltage the charger will allow, is set
by
> the Volts Trim setscrew. It's intentionally harder to get to, Because you
> don't want to bump this setting by mistake or have it adjusted by mistake.
> This can be set from 12 to 450 volts...and anywheres in between.
>
> When you are in voltage control mode.. IE you batteries are fully
charged,
> The current is automatically tapered back to hold the voltage at the
> setpoint. So you can set a 2 amp current and restrict it to not more than
> say 191 volts.. This is a perfect end of charge point for 13 Optima Yts.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 2:42 PM
> Subject: Manzanita micro PCF-20 charger
>
>
> > Hi everyone
> >
> > I was reading about the manzanita micro charger on a web page and it
said
> > that you could turn the current down on it for lower capacity batteries.
I
> > was wondering if i could turn it down far enough so that i could use it
as
> a
> > trickle charger to top off my batteries, does anyone think that would
> work.
> > Also how does the charger know what voltage of a pack i am chargeing.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Off to school, going on a trip, or moving? Windows Live (MSN) Messenger
> lets
> > you stay in touch with friends and family wherever you go. Click here to
> > find out how to sign up! http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date:
12/26/2006 12:23 PM
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:12 AM 12/27/2006, Joseph H. Strubhar wrote:
Rich, I have a question about the input voltage on the PFC chargers. Can you
use them at 120V and 240V both on the same charger (not at the same time, of
course!) I have a customer that needs to fast charge sometimes, but most of
the time will be using a standard outlet. Or can a PFC-20 be made/modified
with a switchable input for 2 different voltages?
I'm not rich, but I do use a PFC charger.
It doesn't care what the input voltage is. No switch needed. Just
plug it in to whatever power is available.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well it's time. The current pack is needing way too
much charge current, and sagging waaaay too hard on
hill pulls and moderate acceleration.
The longevity I got, while cost-effective compared
with ICE, was not enough compared to others on the
list. So I've compiled my findings. Feel free to
add:
USB says to hold 2.587VPC for 2 hrs. to get bubbling
and complete mixing of the electrolyte.
Successful listers say charge until you get 2.65 SG
and (within reason) ignore the dang voltage. If
you've done so, you'll have had bubbling and mixed the
electrolyte. I've also heard that this is almost an
equalizing charge every time.
Some say to charge as often as possible.
Successful LISTers say that charging is hard on the
batteries.
Solution: I'll charge when I pull more than 2.5 kWh
from the pack.
In general, I'll be relying more on SG than voltage
from now on.
I will start my charge at C/10, not the max I can pull
from the charger.
I'll be using 165Ah, not the high-capacity 178 Ah for
less messiness.
I will add a small section of tubing to my filler
bottle, so that my levels of electrolyte will now be
lower than they have been in the past. It needs to be
1/4" below the plastic tab in the well on 80% complete
charge; just covering the plates pre-charge, and the
bottle allows it to get higher than that.
Other ideas welcomed.
In summary I'm still stunned that battery care and
feeding has required more effort and reading than
building the car in the first place. Hopefully this
will be my next floodie pack, before that "next
battery technology... right around the corner" comes
out!
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We are running an agricultural business with enough waste products
available to power a small scale bio-gas system (www.littleriverranch.com)
I think it would be great to convert all that manure etc. to charge my EV
and maybe even produce some more power for the home.
I am looking for some insights on how to run an ICE on bio-gas (mostly
methane). I have googled for days, but it seems to be impossible to get an
appropriate genset in the 5 KW range.
If its too far off topic, I apologize.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Subject: IRS taxes, EV mileage, cost effectiveness building, selling EV's
>> From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >I know this will start a HUGE debate, but....
>
> > An EV costs _about_ the same to own and operate
> >per mile as a fueled car, when you look at the total cost
> >over the life span of the car.
>
When I talk to people about this I add that the speed you drive will change the
cost by quite a bit ... as your speed goes your saving goes down.... the
difference between 50 mph and 65 mph is about twice the cost .. If you wanted
to make EV's look very good then compair them to a gas car , with both doing 35
mph ... OK so you say well that's not fair cus the gas car dosn't do its best
at that speed ... then lets compare your gas at it's best speed and the EV AT
IT"S BEST speed ,, again the ev again would win buy far but its best speed
would be slower than a gas driver would want to go.
Some things do better as ev's then others ,,, My EV mower have trunned out
to be quite a bit cheeper to run , as before I had to replace the engine ever
few years , air filters every month , and 3 gallons of gas to cut 10 yards .
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela,
Check out WWW. uscarb.com and see if they can help.
Doc
On 12/27/06, Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
We are running an agricultural business with enough waste products
available to power a small scale bio-gas system (www.littleriverranch.com)
I think it would be great to convert all that manure etc. to charge my EV
and maybe even produce some more power for the home.
I am looking for some insights on how to run an ICE on bio-gas (mostly
methane). I have googled for days, but it seems to be impossible to get an
appropriate genset in the 5 KW range.
If its too far off topic, I apologize.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My question is about power and useability for DC motors. I have read that
when doing a
conversion to an EV that you only need 1/4 of the HP/Torque rating of the
ICE vehicle.
So, my question is: In practical application is that a good guideline?
Would that allow the
same vehicle to perform similarly when tested side by side?
It seems that the AC motors that I have seen seem to have more power than
the DC
motors. But if I only need 30 ft lbs of torque instead of 120 for the ICE,
then the DC
motors look like a much better deal.
Any thoughts or guidelines would be appreciated.
_________________________________________________________________
The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop.
http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bob,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 8:06 AM
Subject: Final tally: 2.3 years; 7,128 miles before murder. New strategies
for next USB pack
I am now over 9100 miles in 5 years. See the following on how I did this.
> Well it's time. The current pack is needing way too
> much charge current, and sagging waaaay too hard on
> hill pulls and moderate acceleration.
This is what happen with my last pack at about 10 years. My daily driving
distance was not that far, but I squeeze every bit of energy of the battery
until I could not go around the block that had a voltage drop 1.44 volts per
cell average.
>
> The longevity I got, while cost-effective compared
> with ICE, was not enough compared to others on the
> list. So I've compiled my findings. Feel free to
> add:
>
> USB says to hold 2.587VPC for 2 hrs. to get bubbling
> and complete mixing of the electrolyte.
> Successful listers say charge until you get 2.65 SG
> and (within reason) ignore the dang voltage. If
> you've done so, you'll have had bubbling and mixed the
> electrolyte. I've also heard that this is almost an
> equalizing charge every time.
I only charge to 2.5 vpc for about 30 to 40 minutes a maximum of C/4 for
bulk charging and than another 30 minutes for finishing. It may not get to
100% but its above 95%.
>
> Some say to charge as often as possible.
> Successful LISTers say that charging is hard on the
> batteries.
> Solution: I'll charge when I pull more than 2.5 kWh
> from the pack.
I have been charging my batteries at about 80 to 90% SOC which on my
batteries is 4.5 to 9 kWh.
>
> In general, I'll be relying more on SG than voltage
> from now on.
It is best to check the SG once in a while, to see it matches the voltage
indication and SOC percentages. I found at times my batteries SG will be
above 1.300 SG, but that is normal when the electrolyte is low where the
water has bubble off, making the electrolyte stronger.
If the electrolyte is low, but is still above the plates, charge the
batteries to about 95% SOC and than add water. Then finish charging to 100$
at that time which then mixes the water setting on top of the acid which
normally settles to the bottom.
If you take a reading just after you add the water, it is normal for the SG
to be low at that time. It takes several charge cycles to get a average SG
reading.
>
> I will start my charge at C/10, not the max I can pull
> from the charger.
>
> I'll be using 165Ah, not the high-capacity 178 Ah for
> less messiness.
I was told way back in the 70's, is to use a battery with a large enough AH
rating, that will have about 75% SOC remaining after you daily travel. So,
that what I did.
>
> I will add a small section of tubing to my filler
> bottle, so that my levels of electrolyte will now be
> lower than they have been in the past. It needs to be
> 1/4" below the plastic tab in the well on 80% complete
> charge; just covering the plates pre-charge, and the
> bottle allows it to get higher than that.
>
> Other ideas welcomed.
The professional type bottle filler made by PLEWS / Edeimann Division, Stant
Corportion No. 75030 , has a two stage telescoping spout that recesses to a
first stop for standard batteries and than to a second stop for deep cycle
batteries that works good. It fills to about 1/8 to 1/16 inch below the
filling neck.
>
> In summary I'm still stunned that battery care and
> feeding has required more effort and reading than
> building the car in the first place. Hopefully this
> will be my next floodie pack, before that "next
> battery technology... right around the corner" comes
> out!
Yes, for me, it is about 90 percent of the time for battery maintenance, 5
percent for motor maintenance and 5 percent of update's and modifications.
Roland
>
>
>
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> Learn more at:
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A couple more ideas on where to get a vehicle weighed:
If you live near a race track, or a place where they race autocross,
someone will probably have a scale that weighs wheels independently.
If you live near a place that sells rock/sand/etc. in bulk (i.e. by the
ton) they usually have a scale to weigh the vehicle before and after
loading.
If you live near a highway weighing station (for weighing big rigs), they
obviously have a scale.
Hit these folks up when bussiness is slow and tell them why you want to
weigh the vehicle. Of course you'll probably have to answere a bunch of
questions, but they will probably weigh your vehicle for free.
> Hello Fred,
>
> At the automatic truck weigh stations, you just follow the instructions on
> the sign. You normally drive the front wheels on and than a indicator
> light
> will come on and then it will tell you to proceed forward to weigh the
> next
> axles. Truck with trailers has to weigh each axle.
>
> Then you drive off the scale, insert your credit card in a machine, and it
> will give you a weigh slip showing all the different weights.
>
> I have also went to a grain elevator that has a scale. Just tell the
> operator what you want to do, and you just weigh each axle.
>
> Dunlap does not make a 15 inch tire with the load rating of 2350 lbs.
> They
> change that load rating for a 18 inch tire. The only two companies that
> have that load rating for a 15 inch is Goodyear and Pirelli.
>
> I am running Pirelli ATR all weather tire design for a SUB or heavy
> pickups.
>
> See what the weight is per wheel, and if it will match the Michelin Energy
> MXVH Plus tire, that the one I would get. Its has a 2 ply wall like my
> Pirelli and has a stiff thread section that keeps it more rounded.
>
> The soft side walls do not effect the thread face as it did with the older
> tires. This gives you a softer ride then a hard 4 ply side wall like my
> old
> Dunlaps did.
>
> The face of these LRR tires do not deflect as much, but the side walls do
> which does not increase the resistance.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 3:43 PM
> Subject: RE: Needing Tires
>
>
>> What tire did you use? I am looking for exact brand as well as size.
>> Did
>> you stay with the Dunlop tires? As soon as the weather clears around
>> here
>> I
>> am going to try to get my truck weighted but I do not know of any place
>> that
>> I can get just the front or just the rear weighted separately. I do know
>> of
>> a grain scale company a short distance from my house that will weigh the
>> whole truck but I am going to have to check to see if I can find someone
>> to
>> weigh just the front and then just the rear.
>>
>> Thanks, Fred
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Roland Wiench [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 8:45 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: Needing Tires
>>
>> Hello Fred,
>>
>> The 225/75/15R are the same type I have on my El Camino. You first must
>> find out what the vehicle weight is on each wheel.
>>
>> The next step is to check the maximum load rating on the side of the
>> tire
>> or
>>
>> in the dealers spec sheet. It may read something like this: Maximum
>> Load
>> Rating 1500 lbs @ 35 PSI.
>>
>> If your weight is 1500 lbs or less than you can air the tires to a
>> maximum
>> of 35 PSI for the lease amount of tire deflection of the face of the
>> thread
>> face.
>>
>> The problem with my EV, the weights on the rear is over 2300 lbs per
>> wheel,
>> so there was no LRR in the 15 inch size over 2300 lbs rating. Most of
>> the
>> tire manufactures reduce the load rating for the 15 inch tires and
>> assign
>> that value for 18 inches and above.
>>
>> There was only two tire companies, Goodyear and Pirelli that still made
>> a
>> 15
>>
>> inch tire with a load rating over 2300 lbs. So that was my only choice.
>>
>> These tires are built different then the Dunlops that were 8 ply and had
>> a
>> load rating of 2600 lbs at 65 PSI which I ran for 21 years and still had
>> 0.25 thread on it. They had a very stiff side wall to reduce the
>> deflection.
>>
>> The new tires, have a soft 2 ply wall with a stiff 6 ply thread area.
>> The
>> thread stays more rounded while the side wall gives you a softer ride.
>>
>> I would like to have the Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus LRR tires, but there
>> load
>>
>> rating was not high enough for me in the 15 inch size. Might work for
>> your
>> rig.
>>
>> Roland
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 4:14 PM
>> Subject: Needing Tires
>>
>>
>> > Well, Santa was good to be. My wife just gave me the go ahead to get
>> my
>> > much needed tires for my Dodge Dakota EV. While I have been reading
>> up
>> > on
>> > the list about LRR tires, I would like to know what other EV'ers are
>> > using
>> > and with what success. I don't have enough money to make mistakes so
>> I
>> > would like to get a good set. I believe my factory tire size is
>> > 225/75/15.
>> > Please let me know what tires you are using and if they help to get
>> you
>> > better range. I am more concerned about getting as much range as
>> > possible.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks, Fred
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
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wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For starters, realize that with a DC motor, you have
100% of the horsepower available from the get-go. HP
on ICEs are based on certain RPMs.
Next, subtract the HP from your ICE that it takes to
run the alternator, the water pump, the oil pump, and
any other parasites that I'm forgetting.
Any DC driver will tell you that the torque off the
line is SWEEEEEET! They will also tell you that upper
range (40-60 mph) is only mediocre. It's really a
matter of perspectives with DC.
AC is a whole other game. (;-p
--- Joe Plumer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My question is about power and useability for DC
> motors. I have read that
> when doing a
> conversion to an EV that you only need 1/4 of the
> HP/Torque rating of the
> ICE vehicle.
>
> So, my question is: In practical application is that
> a good guideline?
> Would that allow the
> same vehicle to perform similarly when tested side
> by side?
>
> It seems that the AC motors that I have seen seem to
> have more power than
> the DC
> motors. But if I only need 30 ft lbs of torque
> instead of 120 for the ICE,
> then the DC
> motors look like a much better deal.
>
> Any thoughts or guidelines would be appreciated.
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is
> here. Get all the scoop.
> http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brush timing update:
It's aliiiiiiiive!
Spent a little holiday time working on the motor. It's all back
together: new holes drilled to reposition the brush plate & end cap, a
couple of new cables inside, and a few mini bus bar type extensions to
the field coil wires. All of which permits the brushes to be properly
located for the correct rotation at the right speed.
And yesterday, a milestone: the first motor spin test in the car,
documented in this short video (for those who get excited about such
things):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NebLkPulpNg
Thanks again to everyone for advice & suggestions on this, particularly
the motor guru, Mr Husted.
- Darin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I weighed each wheel separately on my RV at a brick yard. They did not
charge me as I told them I needed no
official paperwork.
John in Sylmar, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are a couple issues here.
ICE engines are rated a peak power, this power level is rarely seen
outside of laboratory conditions (I.e. it only happens at a specific RPM
and torque).
Electric motors are rated at, or near, their continous HP. I.e. how much
power they can produce all day long, or on some for 1 hour or so.
Electric motors can produce MUCH more than their rated HP for short
periods of time, the more power you require, the shorter time.
Electric drag racers routinely pull 20X (or more) rated power for 10-15
seconds.
For electric motors, peak HP is typically limited by the controller not
the motor.
AC motors are usually solds as sets (motor + controller) often these list
peak and continous HP. If you compare the peak power listed on these to
the continous HP listed for most DC motors, you might mistakenly think
that the AC motor is more powerful. It may or may not be, depends on the
controller you use with the DC motor.
Obviously an ICE vehicle going down the road at 65mph isn't using it's
peak HP. In fact it's probably only using 20-30 hp.
This is why most folks use an electric motor rated at 15-20 hp continous
(you'll note that this is CONSIDERABLY less than 1/4 peak HP for most
modern cars).
HTH
> My question is about power and useability for DC motors. I have read that
> when doing a
> conversion to an EV that you only need 1/4 of the HP/Torque rating of the
> ICE vehicle.
>
> So, my question is: In practical application is that a good guideline?
> Would that allow the
> same vehicle to perform similarly when tested side by side?
>
> It seems that the AC motors that I have seen seem to have more power than
> the DC
> motors. But if I only need 30 ft lbs of torque instead of 120 for the
> ICE,
> then the DC
> motors look like a much better deal.
>
> Any thoughts or guidelines would be appreciated.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop.
> http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try looking for generators designed to run on CNG (Compressed Natural
Gas). Natural Gas is primarily methane.
I'm not sure if you'll need to compress the methane or not.
>
> We are running an agricultural business with enough waste products
> available to power a small scale bio-gas system (www.littleriverranch.com)
>
> I think it would be great to convert all that manure etc. to charge my EV
> and maybe even produce some more power for the home.
>
> I am looking for some insights on how to run an ICE on bio-gas (mostly
> methane). I have googled for days, but it seems to be impossible to get an
> appropriate genset in the 5 KW range.
>
> If its too far off topic, I apologize.
>
> Michaela
>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 27 Dec 2006 at 9:29, Michaela Merz wrote:
> If its too far off topic, I apologize.
This is indeed pretty far off topic, and I suspect it's not of much general
interest to the list. Sorry. If anyone has info for Michaela, please email
it privately, not on the list.
Michaela, have you tried posting this on the AE (Alternative Energy) mailing
list? It's on the same server, and has the same list owner, as this list.
Subscribe by sending
subscribe AE Michaela Merz
to the address
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
For general information on alternative energy systems, the AE list is a much
better resource than this list.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe, The confusion about horsepower differences between electric motors
and ICE motors is because the gas motors are rated by peak horsepower and
the electrics are rated by continuous duty horsepower. It still takes the
same amount of horsepower to move a vehicle down the road whether gas or
electric. I do not know where you are looking to get the idea that there are
more high powered AC motors than DC. Most electric car racing world records
are held by DC. Someday when there are high powered AC controllers readily
available we may see a change in that. Your torque will be determined mostly
by the controller you choose because amps equals torque. Of course the motor
has to be built to handle the amps.
To find a motor suitable for your application I would recommend going to
the EV Album, www.evalbum.com and seeing what motor and controller
combinations work for certain types and weights of vehicles. Also tell this
EV List what car you are considering and what type of performance and range
you are looking for and you will get a lot of feedback.
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Plumer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 8:21 AM
Subject: DC Motor question....
My question is about power and useability for DC motors. I have read that
when doing a
conversion to an EV that you only need 1/4 of the HP/Torque rating of the
ICE vehicle.
So, my question is: In practical application is that a good guideline?
Would that allow the
same vehicle to perform similarly when tested side by side?
It seems that the AC motors that I have seen seem to have more power than
the DC
motors. But if I only need 30 ft lbs of torque instead of 120 for the
ICE, then the DC
motors look like a much better deal.
Any thoughts or guidelines would be appreciated.
_________________________________________________________________
The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop.
http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/605 - Release Date:
12/27/2006
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An addendum. Horsepower whether gas or electric is RPMs times torque. In an
electric RPMs is related to voltage and torque is related to amps. Volts
times amps equals watts. Roughly 750 watts equals one horsepower. As a rule
of thumb in figuring for a complete electric drive you can figure about 1000
watts per horsepower to include inefficiencies.
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: DC Motor question....
For starters, realize that with a DC motor, you have
100% of the horsepower available from the get-go. HP
on ICEs are based on certain RPMs.
Next, subtract the HP from your ICE that it takes to
run the alternator, the water pump, the oil pump, and
any other parasites that I'm forgetting.
Any DC driver will tell you that the torque off the
line is SWEEEEEET! They will also tell you that upper
range (40-60 mph) is only mediocre. It's really a
matter of perspectives with DC.
AC is a whole other game. (;-p
--- Joe Plumer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
My question is about power and useability for DC
motors. I have read that
when doing a
conversion to an EV that you only need 1/4 of the
HP/Torque rating of the
ICE vehicle.
So, my question is: In practical application is that
a good guideline?
Would that allow the
same vehicle to perform similarly when tested side
by side?
It seems that the AC motors that I have seen seem to
have more power than
the DC
motors. But if I only need 30 ft lbs of torque
instead of 120 for the ICE,
then the DC
motors look like a much better deal.
Any thoughts or guidelines would be appreciated.
_________________________________________________________________
The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is
here. Get all the scoop.
http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/605 - Release Date:
12/27/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/605 - Release Date: 12/27/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The B381s are on my wife's 2003 Civic Hybrid. We bought the car used,
but I believe that they are the OEM tire. Our Civic has ~57k miles on it
now, and the tires are still going strong. I generally keep them
inflated to about 44psi (sidewall max rating). No complaints here.
cheers,
Andrew
Cor van de Water wrote:
Hi Phil,
How do you like the tire?
(Are you already on the road with it?)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Phil Marino
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 5:18 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Low Rolling Resistance Tires - B381
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: "Brian M. Sutin" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Low Rolling Resistance Tires
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 07:33:40 -0000
As long as you have a 14" wheel you are fine. Mine are 15". Many are
16 and larger now. Even the guy in our group that has B281's had a
very hard time getting them. OEM tires are not always available in the
aftermarket!
If you mean the Bridgestones B381's ( the lowest tested RR value in the
Greenseal testing) I bought some a couple of months ago from TireRack. I
just ordered them, and they came. There are only a couple of sizes
available, though. ( at least from TireRack)
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
>From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes
has
it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Dec 27, 2006, at 6:12 AM, Joseph H. Strubhar wrote:
Rich, I have a question about the input voltage on the PFC chargers.
Can you
use them at 120V and 240V both on the same charger (not at the same
time, of
course!) I have a customer that needs to fast charge sometimes, but
most of
the time will be using a standard outlet. Or can a PFC-20 be
made/modified
with a switchable input for 2 different voltages?
From the Manzanita Micro web site, "These chargers will operate on any
voltage from 60 volts to 240 volts AC at either 50 or 60 Hz."
<http://www.manzanitamicro.com/chargers3.htm> Just remember that the
charger will take 20 amps, input or output, which ever limit is reached
first. The Buck Enhanced version will do 20 amps input or 30 amps
output.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A long time ago Lee had written a hilarious post describing in detail the steps
needed to solder surface mount parts.
I could have sworn that I saved a copy of that post, but alas I cannot find it.
Does anybody have a copy, or have it posted to a website?
It was too long ago to even think of searching in the archives for it....
Thanks,
Stay Charged!
Hump
--- End Message ---
