EV Digest 6250
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(Obvio Tribrid: Electric Pocket Rocket Runs on Anything)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(Man invents electric scooter, hopes a world success)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(Altima: A hybrid in more ways than one)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Zener regs revisited
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Not me!! Re: Nicad resetting vs NiMH
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Rudman regs & a Soniel charger.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) SCR controllers
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) 8 V battery charger
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Not me!! Re: Nicad resetting vs NiMH
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 8 V battery charger
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Battey Beach Burnout
by "Matt Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: How much flex in battery interconnects
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Back from babyland and NiCD thoughts
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 8 V battery charger
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Motor Measurements
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: 8 V battery charger
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) BBC video of Vectrix bike at new charging stations in London
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Need help to ID GE controller ...
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: How much flex in battery interconnects
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: gizmag Article: The Moovie: they built it .. merc's F-300 Life Jet
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Maximum amps for Anderson 350?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Obvio Tribrid: Electric Pocket Rocket Runs on Anything)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/obvio-tribrid-sports-car-electric-pocket-rocket-runs-on-anything-224474.php
Obvio Tribrid Sports Car: Electric Pocket Rocket Runs on Anything
If you can figure out front from back in this cab-forward
next-gen vehicle, the next thing you can do is figure out what
sort of fuel to put inside. It's called a "tribrid" car because
it can run on any combination of regular gas/bio ethanol (that's
kinda like french fry grease), natural gas, or electricity.
Brazillian designer Obvio is partnering up with supercar maker
Lotus (also the builder of the body of the Tesla electric sports
car) to develop this roadster which is expected to sell for
around $59K if it ever makes it to the US.
Called a high-performance micro sports car, it has side-by-side
seating for three and is just 10.5 feet long. Obvio says it will
be available in the last quarter of 2008, when the company will
also offer a 160MPH non-electric multi-fuel car with the same
body for a US price of around $28,000.
Check out five more wild exterior and interior pics:
[image
http://www.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/12/obvio_sideview.jpg
]
Look at thatthere's a carputer in there, too.
[image
http://www.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/12/6inside.jpg
]
The way things are going, looks to us like by 2010 (if not
sooner) there will be quite an impressive collection of
multifueled and electric sports cars from which to choose. Bring
it on. Charlie White
Product Page [Obvio, via Jalopnik]
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Man invents electric scooter, hopes a world success)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.taiwanheadlines.gov.tw/ct.asp?xItem=56386&ctNode=9
Home > Science & Technology Science & Technology News
Man invents electric scooter he hopes will be a world success
12/28/2006 (Liberty Times)
Ho Yi-hsin was once the owner of a very profitable factory.
However, as traditional industries began to fall behind as Taiwan
moved up the industrial ladder, Ho ultimately had to shut down
the operation. So upset was he by the inability to meet his
ambitions, Ho at one point considered jumping off a building.
However, he pulled himself together and decided to devote himself
to the research and development of items that could be patented.
After spending six years of research on his own, Ho has finally
created a recreational electronic vehicle that has received
patents in Europe, the United States and Japan. The vehicle,
which somewhat resembles a cross between a bicycle and a scooter,
has provided a "second spring" for Ho.
After graduating from Yung Ching Junior High School, Ho began to
get his hands dirty in helping his father in his business. Over
the years, he was involved in plastics injection, belt conveyors
used in packaging and electric scooters. When the economy was
good, his factory employed 30 people who would work day and night
to meet the orders placed by customers. However, six years ago,
Ho had to start again from scratch. Taiwan's traditional
industries have gradually left Taiwan and moved to China. As a
result, he lost orders for his products. Nonetheless, he was
determined to remain in Taiwan. The cost for him, however, was
that he eventually had to shut his factory.
"I do not regret at all not going to China and setting up a
factory there. Many of my counterparts moved to China several
years ago, but they are not doing any better there now," Ho said.
Ho, who has always maintained an air of optimism, believes that
there are always opportunities; one simply has to create them. Ho
auctioned off the machinery he no longer needed at his factory.
He was the boss of a deserted facility, and ended up also being
the janitor of the facility as well. He devoted his time to
developing innovative products. Many of the products he invented
received accolades, but were not hits in the marketplace. The
stress of it all began to take a toll on him after a while,
especially as he faced total collapse.
Ho said that in order to have the funds to develop new products,
he borrowed money from a number of sources. At the time, he
became so exhausted that when his friends saw him, they barely
recognized him. His friends also were concerned that they would
also be drawn into the situation. At his lowest point, Ho said he
was left with only NT$100.
Ho, however, refused to give up. He found new possibilities in
his R&D work. His efforts in developing new items over the years
enabled Ho to possess 20 patents on various goods. The sales of
these patents began to generate some money for him. What is the
most satisfying to him is his recently successful development of
an electric vehicle. Ho said with pride that this vehicle is the
result of six years of hard work. He added that the vehicle will
take advantage of the new trend of using electric vehicles in
leisure activities.
Many years ago, Ho said he realized that electric vehicles must
be able to be used for recreation. As a result, he decided to
turn the style of the vehicle inside out from its traditional
look. He said the vehicle is steered through the seat, which
moves when a person leans in a specific direction.
Ho said that the electric vehicle does not have a steering wheel
and moves entirely based on the swaying of one's body, which
causes the center of gravity for the vehicle to tilt in different
directions. Once the front wheel senses this change, the wheel
then turns. The electric vehicle weighs 23 kilograms and can
travel 15 kilometers on a single re-charging of its battery.
Rather than just having the functional uses of a scooter, the
vehicle can be used in recreation and leisure activities.
Ho Yi-hsin spent six years developing this vehicle. He said that
electric vehicles will sooner or later become an important part
of leisure activities. Therefore, he designed the vehicle to be
driven in parks, through factories and on school campuses. It
also has the function of providing a physical workout.
Ho also said that the inspiration for this vehicle came from the
electronic scooter Segway that was developed in the United
States. He said that the scooter also relies on shifts in a
person's center of gravity to steer the vehicle. He said that
people who ride the vehicle also get exercise by having to sway
back and forth.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Altima: A hybrid in more ways than one)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/features/featuredetail.asp?file=decemberfeatures462006.xml
Altima: A hybrid in more ways than one (LAT-WP) By Dan Neil
You know that horror movie where the mad scientist straps two
victims to gurneys, lowers the metal skull caps on them and, by
dint of special effects the victims personalities are switched?
The 2007 Nissan Altima hybrid is like that. The companys first
effort at a gas-electric auto, using parts and technology
licenced from Toyota, drives like a Nissan with a Prius soul
transplant: The same ninja-in-the-night silence at low speeds;
the same tremble when the gas engine lights up; the same bubbly,
torque-infused acceleration as the gas and electric motors pull
on the oars, only quite a bit more so.
Anybody who has driven a hybridised Toyota Camry will recognise
the companys power-management graphics displayed on the Altimas
center-dash LCD screen. In fact, the Altima hybrid nearly a
numerical dead ringer for the Camry hybrid (wheelbase, height,
weight, horsepower, acceleration) might be thought of as a
Camry hybrid with sex appeal. Let us not underestimate the
magnitude of that achievement.
This is not a car that Nissan wanted to build, particularly.
Nissan chief Carlos Ghosn has long argued that hybrid cars were a
money-losing proposition with little consumer demand of course,
this was before Toyota started selling more than 100,000 Priuses
annually.
Earlier in December, Nissan executive Dominique Thormann admitted
the company was building the Altima hybrid at a loss only to
comply with Californias partial zero-emission vehicle mandate,
which has been adopted by seven north-eastern states.
Recently, Nissan announced its Green Programme 2010, which
in addition to looking for cuts in carbon emissions from its
factories will develop a hybrid vehicle using in-house
technology, as well as pursue plug-in hybrid and all-electric
technology. Nissan also announced it would create its own company
to produce and market advanced lithium-ion batteries, which are
the critical component to make alternative vehicles work.
Bookmark this moment in the history of cars, because what is
emerging is something like consensus. Hybrid doubters who once
railed that the batteries were sketchy, the costs of the hybrid
premium unrecoverable, the mileage gains overstated, and so on
are beginning to look like the Flat Earth Society.
As underscored in November when GM announced it would build a
plug-in hybrid version of its Saturn Vue, the logic of electric
propulsion is compelling. Electric motors are clean, lightweight,
maintenance-free and powerful. The latest lithium-ion batteries
are energy-dense, durable, compact and recyclable. Putting these
components together opens a world of oil- and carbon-saving
possibilities.
What about a car that uses a powerful electric motor to drive the
wheels, that you would charge overnight like a cordless phone,
that would deliver per-mile costs at a fraction of gasoline? And
if the car should need to exceed its all-electric range, a small,
hyper-clean gas-powered generator would be aboard to charge the
battery. Such a widget, known as a serial hybrid, could get
over 100 miles per gallon. Fantasy? Lets talk after Detroits
auto show in January.
In the meantime, we have the Altima hybrid, which is the result
of a deal Nissan signed with Toyota in 2002. Toyota supplies the
244V nickel metal hydride battery, the electric motor/transaxle,
the inverter and controller, while Nissan uses its 2.5-liter
four-cylinder engine and continuously variable transmission
(CVT).
The DOHC, 16-valve gas engine serves up 158 horsepower at 5,200
rpm, while the permanent magnet AC synchronous motor imparts
another 40 horsepower, for a nominal net of 198 horsepower. This
thrust is pitted against 3,448 pounds of mass, which is 264
pounds heavier than the regular four-cylinder, 175-horsepower
Altima.
The Altima hybrid also surrenders some trunk space to the hybrid
batteries and controllers: The regular Altima has a
15.3-cubic-foot trunk while the hybrid Altima makes do with 9.1
cubic feet.
Functionally, the Altima hybrid powertrain feels familiar. From
idle to about 10 mph, the car moves in all-electric mode, pulled
along by the electric motors husky 199 pound-feet of torque
(between 0-1,500 rpm). Above stop-and-go speeds and depending on
throttle demand, the gas engine kicks in with a slight
low-frequency flutter. In keeping with the brands sportier vibe,
Nissans engineers gave the Altima hybrid a huskier exhaust note
although the effect is like having someone in the trunk making
motorboat sounds.
In straight-line acceleration, the Altima pours out a nice,
syrupy torque below 60 mph, where the gas and electric power
plants are most effective. Zero-to-60 mph is about 9 seconds. At
interstate highway speeds, the Altima starts to feel a little
starved for electrons, and floor-to-the-mat requests for
acceleration are met with a major kick-down whine from the CVT.
Overall, the hybrids performance should be roughly on par with
the Altima four-banger. Those who desire more boot-scoot may be
interested in the 3.5-liter, 270-hp Altima SE. As for fuel
economy, the hybrids official numbers are 41 city, 36 highway
or about 25 per cent better than the four-cylinder Altima (26/34
mpg).
While pricing wont be announced until late January, close to the
time the vehicle goes on sale, the base Altima hybrid should come
in around $25,500. (Because its a loss-leader proposition
anyway, its only a matter of how much the company wants to eat
on each unit.) A car like our all-in tester with navigation,
rearview camera, leather and wood, satellite radio with Bose
sound system and a slew of other conveniences and amenities
would likely run about $32,000. Currently, the federal tax credit
on the Altima hybrid is $2,350, according to Nissan.
Its worth noting, incidentally, that the recent downturn in
Toyota hybrid sales is probably due to the shrinking tax credit
on them, because Toyota was the first manufacturer to hit the
60,000-unit mark, after which the tax credit decreases. The
Altima hybrid seems like a good way to get a Camry hybrid-esque
car and still get the full credit.
Except, of course, that its not a Camry, with all the bourgeois
burden the nameplate implies. The Altima has been restyled for
the 2007 model year, an effort that has merely refined the cars
well-loved, cleanly architectural styling: the perfect-arch
roofline, the raked windshield, the close-fitting wheel openings
and glassine details at the corners.
The Altima also shares Nissans affection for crisper ride and
handling and more vivid steering. The Camry hybrid drives a
little like the worlds most sophisticated hearse. If this is
what it takes to put Toyota efficiency in a sleek, stylish sedan,
then I say, Doctor, throw the switch.
© 2001 The Peninsula. All Rights Reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
Tonight I repeated but modified my previous test showing that JB-Weld
has immeasurable electrical conductivity. This time instead of a simple
resistance measurement (which gave "infinite" ohms), I put 65V on the
heatsink of the MOSFET in the following pictures. A digital multimeter
on the 200mV scale showed nothing but noise when touched to the JB-Weld.
A bridge through my skin, however, made the reading go off the meter's
scale.
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/p1010002.jpg
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/p1010004.jpg
This module was made by soldering an IRF640 to an FR-4 one-ounce circuit
board with an extra copper sheet sandwiched in between, then milling off
the fiberglass from behind and adding a heatsink. With the transformer
oil in the background, I achieved about 0.5 deg.C/W, sufficient to
safely dissipate at least 20W.
Some IRF2907ZS-7PPBFs that will eventually be encapsulated that way:
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/p1010006.jpg
And another little project that I've been working on:
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/028.jpg
Step-by-step instructions to build the semi-open-source DC motor
controller will be available soon (probably for a modest cost).
- Arthur
On Wed, 2006-12-27 at 23:44 -0500, Christopher Zach wrote:
> Paul G. wrote:
> > Yes, JB weld is also rather conductive. I was not aware that heat sink
> > epoxy would be conductive. Now that I know its not an issue. If I didn't
> > know that could have been a problem. Thanks to Lee for pointing out this
> > potential issue!
>
> I guess. I used the Mouser potting compound and my set of 50 regs is not
> leaking enough to trip the Dolphin's rather sensitive "holy smokes there
> is a ground fault in the pack!" detection circuit.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 27 Dec 2006 at 23:51, Christopher Zach wrote:
> What I have done with the truck is run it till the batteries are (IMHO)
> tired, then let it sit at 2ah drain for about 2-3 hours to let the pack go
> down a bit more gently, then charge up again.
Christopher, this is a confusing use of the term amp-hours. The statement
as written is nonsense.
Did you mean to write
"a 2 AMP drain for 2-3 hours" (total 4-6 amp hours), or
"a 2ah drain OVER 2-3 hours" (total 2 amp hours)?
The difference is significant.
> my idea of "low" is 1.0vpc @90a load cutoff.
That's Saft's idea of "discharged."
d
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Joe but these are Mark I C & D rev regs. I've got them Molexed.now
so just 4 connections & I won't fry anything connecting and disconnecting
them. I didn't know the sealed lead acid algorythm was a higher voltage for
charging than end of charge. It only seems to do that weird 55 v thing when
it senses the resistance of the regs. It only takes a fraction of a second
for it to cut back. I might try consulting a Soniel engineer. I wish the
little chargers could talk to the regs. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: Rudman regs & a Soniel charger.
> Connect 5 volts between pin 1 (+) and pin 3 (-) on the Regbus. It puts all
> the regs into equalize mode (raises the threshold 10%) until you are ready
> to use them. It eliminates the pain of disconnecting and reconnecting
them.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 11:11 AM
> Subject: Rudman regs & a Soniel charger.
>
>
> > Seems the Soniel 48v charger has three charge levels.55v 58v and one
> > slightly higher. I noticed my batteries were charging at 14.75 early in
> the
> > cycle. NOt badly balanced I noticed 58.32vdc without regs. & eventully
> > stopping of charge. I'd have one battery(at end of charge) that was
> > charging slightly lower. 13.5 vs maybe one battery over 14v and the
> others
> > maybe 13.75. I now have them all around 13.8 but this happened when I
> added
> > the regs. Seems that when the charger sensed the regs it cut back from
> 58.32
> > to 55.23. It still hasn't stopped charging & this is all now done on a
> > full charge. I'm getting a bad feeling that these old rev d & C regs
> won't
> > work with this charger on the bulk charge and still balance at the end
of
> > charge. The charger charges higher first and cools off later. I'm
using
> > these on a Lepton scooter with 4 BB 50 ah batteries. Maybe the answer
is
> to
> > just use the regs at end of charge only. But that is a pain. Lawrence
> > Rhodes.....
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a couple of Lansing 'Hytron V' motor control panels from a large 3
ton forklift, which are SCR based circuits. The larger tracton circuit could
drive a 10kW Traction motor and had 500Amp fuses, so I'm taking from that that
the SCR's are good for that sort of current ,with bypass for the higher
speeds.
The logic boards are just complications for my purpose, and only the SCR's
caps and a transformer are required, but when i ditch the logic control I have
no reliable way to fire the SCR's
>From a previous project I remembered that the little pic16F690
microcontroller has a few good motor control modes, one of them called 'half
bridge'
which seems to do what I need, i.e. one pulse to turn on SCR1 and at the end
of
the duty cycle another pulse to turn on SCR2 which turns off SCR1. Nice and
simple.
Before I start getting fully involved is there anyone who has already built
an SCR driver ?
Chris Barron
10kW Traction motor, 36 2V 430Ah batteries and suitable charger, and a half
a controller....no vehicle as yet but that's just some shopping !
Possibly an EV motorcycle coming soon too.......!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd like to squeeze some more life out of my T-875's, so I'd like to slow
charge each of them for a day or so (that will take 13 days total, but I'm OK
with that, since it's not working today ...) to see if I can bring them back to
life. Trouble is, I can't find an 8 V charger. Anyone know where to get one?
Steve
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--- Begin Message ---
David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
Did you mean to write
"a 2 AMP drain for 2-3 hours" (total 4-6 amp hours), or
Yes.
my idea of "low" is 1.0vpc @90a load cutoff.
That's Saft's idea of "discharged."
Interesting. According to manuals I have read, 1.0vpc is classified as
discharged when the battery is at rest. I've seen quotes that you can
take the batteries down to .7 volts under load, but that sounds dicey on
a 252 cell string.
In theory as long as they don't go past 0.0v under load things should
still work. Part of the reason I'm fiddling with the "if it's reading
-1.0v something is really bad, stop" detector. Then again with a floor
voltage cut-out like on the Elec-trak (contactors drop @30v or 1.0vpc
average) you hit high resistance before the pack seems to reverse (I'll
be monitoring that this winter as the Elec-trak pack is a study in
imbalance with the lift tapping the pack).
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Steve,
When my batteries were on its last legs, over 10 years on them, my old
single Schumacher 10 amp with three voltage selection. You can select 6-8,
12, and 24 volts. The charger would take for ever to get over 1.5 amp at
6.8 charger volts on some of my 6 volt batteries. So I try the 12 volt
position it the charger pop right up to 6 amps and at a starting voltage of
7 to 8 volts.
I had to watch a amp and volt meter very closely, so I can stop charging
when I got to 7.7 - 8 volts.
I added a 300 watt 120 volt light bulb in series with the battery lead to
the battery and this held the 12 volts to below 7.5 volts. I try a very
large rheostat which had to be over 1000 watt rating at some ohm value less
then 10 ohms and this work too.
I am now using a Schumacher model WM-1000A Smart charge I got from Wal Mart
which is a 6 & 12 volt charger. To see what will happen, if I try to charge
a 6 volt battery on the 12 volt setting, it start charging it as it would be
on the 6 volt setting. Again, I had to watch the battery voltage so it
would not get over 7.7 volts.
The maximum voltage on a 8 volt battery would be about 10.26 volts for a
equalization charge and 10 volts for a normal charge. Just test out a 12
volt charger on your 8 volts.
A 6 volt battery on my old charger with the three voltage selections, the
6-8V setting would start to charge at about 6 amps. A 8 volt battery on the
6-8V setting would start out at 1.5 to 3 amps.
Roland
With this type of charger, I had to watch the voltage for the 6 volt battery
so it would not go over 7.7 volts.
You can still get these type of charger, but they cost more then the
Shumaker smart charger.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Powers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 5:15 AM
Subject: 8 V battery charger
> I'd like to squeeze some more life out of my T-875's, so I'd like to slow
> charge each of them for a day or so (that will take 13 days total, but I'm
> OK with that, since it's not working today ...) to see if I can bring them
> back to life. Trouble is, I can't find an 8 V charger. Anyone know where
> to get one?
>
> Steve
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ken, Heidi, Steve and all,
Looking forward to seeing all of you at Battery Beach Burnout! Yes, there
was some unfortunate misinformation regarding the EVers conference, but
everything is on schedule for the drag race and autocross events, and we
have a full schedule of speakers for the conference on Sunday!
We have a lot of local EVs that will be competing, but also some
long-haulers as well. If you haven't seen it yet, go to www.floridaeaa.org
and check out the links for Battery Beach Burnout and the EVers Conference.
We have hotel and location information posted there, and also a registration
form. If you're planning on attending, please fill out that form. We'll have
pre-printed "pit-pass" tickets for you, and it'll also let us know who will
be bringing EVs.
The focus of the Conference is EV Education, and it's appropriate that we'll
have several high school teams competing again this year. The autocross is
primarily for them, but I imagine we'll see a certain long-range, twin
AC-powered Imp there as well!
On the drag strip, we'll be putting it to the gassers at the Friday Night
Test and Tune. I don't know if Shawn Lawless will be bringing the rail, but
maybe if enough people chime in. . . ;-) We've got confirmations from quite
a few EV folks, but we can always use more, so come on down to South Florida
for some EV fun in the sun, January 26-28.
See you there!
Matt Graham
300V Nissan "Joule Injected" 240SX
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 8:51 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Battey Beach Burnout
>
> In a message dated 12/23/2006 6:41:19 AM Central Standard
> Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I heard some of the conferences were cancelled. Is that
> right? What kind of turn out are we expecting? I plan to be
> there. Anyone else?
>
> Steve
> Heidi and I will be there. Don't know about the conferences..??
>
> Ken & Heidi
>
>
>
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John,
You may want to consider this product
http://www.erico.com/products/FlexibarN.asp
I have used it. You can put a small bend or hump inbetween battery post
connections to allow for vibration and thermal expansion. You strip the
insulation at each end and put a hole though it to bolt up. No extra terminal
needed. Holes are tough to drill. I use a punch.
Jeff Major
John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have a set of Interstate U2400 batteries with small L posts and I am
making my interconnects. I have some copper bar stock (.08 inch thick
by 1 inch wide) and 2/0 stranded welding cable. So far I have made an
interconnect with both and neither seems to have much flex for short
connections. The copper bar stock seems slightly better (and it is
much easier to get the proper fit.)
I think I will do my short interconnects with the copper stock meaning
I need to buy some more of it. Each interconnect will have at least 2
right angle bends so I suspect I may be over-analyzing the situation,
but I thaught it was worth asking.
for my next order would I be better off getting that is a bit thinner,
or stick with the .08 inch stock? As I recall I can get it in 1/16 if
an inch (.0625).
For reference my conversion will be 144 volts and I plan to use the
Zilla to limit battery draw to 400 amps.
---------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
Sorry I've been posting so much last night; I've been out of commission
for the past 2 months due to the birth of my daughter, Brianna. Mom and
family are doing well, but it's been kind of crazy.
As a quick report on how my experiments are going:
BB600 NiCds: I still love them. The string of 252 in the truck are
running fine and now have over 1,500 miles on them without a problem.
Overall they run really well. I'm getting a good 20ah/20 miles out of
the pack before it sags too far for me to drive it (down to 250v at
90-100a draw which is the controller low voltage limit) but I have been
able to go to 25ah without much trouble. For a pack that is only 30ah in
size and is being pulled at peaks of 7C and an average of 2-3C that's
really not too bad.
I've watered them once (end of November) since commission; just about
all of them were at the same level as when I started with about 5 of
them down somewhat. Just to see what happened I filled them up with
about 20ml of water extra which brought the water level to 50% of the
top capacity when fully charged. I did this on the Elec-trak over the
summer and did not see any venting issues, so I thought I'd see how the
truck handles it. So far so good; I'll check the water levels again in
the spring.
They totally shrug off the cold. I can't wait to try the truck at zero
degrees; at those temps the batteries in the Prizm just start to whimper.
The Prizm is also doing well. It's pack is now coming up on 4 years and
8,000 miles old, which for a used Hawker Genesis pack is not too bad
IMHO. I installed the zener regs in the spring on a tired pack, replaced
6 bad batteries, and spent the summer driving it over 20 miles per
charge, 2-3 charges per day. Right now it has a usable range of 15 miles
in the cold, which is still not bad. I'll drop the pack in the spring
and see what kind of shape it's in; I think the zener regs are really
helping to keep it alive. Also in the spring I'll install the red/green
battery monitoring system with darlington opto isolators to watch the pack.
The Elec-trak continues to be my BB600 experimental grounds and it's
also running well. This winter I'm going to try a cell-based monitoring
and discharge solution for the heck of it. Goal is to have something
that can scale to a 252-504 cell pack for the truck.
I really am impressed with NiCDs, and am on the lookout for 50 used
STM5-100's. Given the performance of the BB600's, I'd be interested in
putting together a NiCD pack that can go 100 miles....
Chris
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--- Begin Message ---
You could put some diodes in series with your 12v charger to knock it
down. There probably aren't many other options unless you go about
building a variable supply of some sort with perhaps a ceiling fan
"dimmer" and a 12v charger.
--
Martin K
Steve Powers wrote:
I'd like to squeeze some more life out of my T-875's, so I'd like to slow
charge each of them for a day or so (that will take 13 days total, but I'm OK
with that, since it's not working today ...) to see if I can bring them back to
life. Trouble is, I can't find an 8 V charger. Anyone know where to get one?
Steve
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Phil,
Of course it depends on the particular motor, battery and application, but it
is often not "relatively small" and therefore very important. I suspect those
who race EVs soon realize this. With small batteries and high currents, this
is the factor which limits power.
This voltage equation on motor curves should always be considered when
looking at power ratings, peak power and stall torque. You can get fooled by a
constant voltage motor curve and you can still find many published motor curves
with constant voltage.
Jeff
Phil Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi, Jeff
Thanks for the clarification.
It was clear to me that the voltage drop was due to a resistance ( because
the voltage drop is proportional to resistance) but I assumed that it was a
cable loss.
In practice, it doesn't matter at all what causes the voltage drop. The
important thing ( and maybe not even that important, since the voltage drop
is relatively small) is to realize that these published motor curves are not
generated at constant voltage, but at a voltage that varies slightly with
the motor current.
If you want to generate accurate motor performance predictions based on
these curves, you obviously have to account for all the voltage drops in
your system, including batteries, cabling, terminals, and controller, so
that you base your analysis on true voltage at the battery terminals.
Phil
>From: Jeff Major
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: Motor Measurements
>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 08:38:45 -0800 (PST)
>
>Brian and Phil,
>
> The ".03 I" normally is a term to reflect the voltage drop due to the
>internal resistance of the battery. When motor performance curves are
>prepared, the terminal voltage affects the motor speed. At loads of
>several hundred amps or more, battery voltage will sag significantly due to
>the internal resistance of the battery. So a motor curve drawn at a
>constant voltage will not reflect the motor speed correctly at heavy loads.
> This also plays into the equation for stall current and torque.
>
> V = 75v - .03 I is the voltage at the motor terminals for which that
>motor performance curve was measured or calculated, so I guess it could be
>considerd to include some cable resistance, but the primary component is
>battery internal resistance.
>
> The .03 used for the internal resistance of the battery should be
>considered "typical". The actual internal battery resistance is probably
>not linear and varies with battery size and type and, I believe, with state
>of charge.
>
> Lengthy cable resistance and other resistance or voltage drops between
>the battery and motor should be considered in addition to the .03 I.
>
> Jeff Major
>
>
>
>Phil Marino
wrote:
>
>Brian
>
>The legend will usually read something like : "75 V - .03 I " ( That dash
>is a minus sign)
>
>This example means that 75 volts was applied to the motor through a
>resistance of 0.03 ohms. The 0.03 ohms is the resistance of the cabling and
>terminal resistances between the voltage source and the motor itself. So,
>the actual voltage at the motor terminals will be less than 75 volts by a
>voltage equal to the motor current times this external resistance.
>
>The voltage drop in the cabling is equal to the motor current times this
>resistance or Vdrop = 0,.03 ohms x motor current in amps. This is based on
>" E = I x R ".
>
>So, the acual voltage at the motor terminals is equal to the voltage source
>minus the cabling/connection drop, or, 75 V - .03 x I.
>
>( They leave out the multiplication sign - as that is understood - and
>write "75V -.03I" )
>
>Phil
>
>
>
> >From: "Brian M. Sutin"
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: EV List
> >Subject: Motor Measurements
> >Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 20:40:53 -0800
> >
> >On most electric motor measurement plots, something like "0.03I"
> >appears. What does that refer to?
> >
> >Brian
> >Alfa Romeo Conversion
> >http://www.skewray.com/alfa
> >
> >--
> >Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
> >Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered
>by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
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>
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The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> You could put some diodes in series with your 12v charger to knock it
> down. There probably aren't many other options unless you go about
> building a variable supply of some sort with perhaps a ceiling fan
> "dimmer" and a 12v charger.
One flexible charging option I like is a Vicor Megapac unit loaded with
DC/DC converter modules.
The full size 1st generation modules commonly run 150watts output each, with
up to 8 modules in the unit.
With output DC/DC adjustability running from -50% to +10%, for roughly 8v
output, you could use any module with output rated from 7.3v to 16v and tune
it to what you need. Since 12v modules are very common and it's in the mid
range, it'd probably be your best bet. A 150w/12v converter would be able
to dish out 12.5amps. At 8volts, that's 100watts. One Megapac loaded with
modules could be wired to individually charge up to 8, or even 16 (with
dual output DC/DCs) individual batteries of 6/8/12v each.
Not a cheap option if bought new, but these Megapacs are often had for
$50-$100 surplus loaded with DC/DCs.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
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--- Begin Message ---
(I originally posted this link 9 days ago but never saw it come across in
any of the digests I've received since then.)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolavconsole/ifs_news/hi/nb_rm_fs.stm?news=1&bbram=1&bbwm=1&nbram=1&nbwm=1&nol_storyid=6214612
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Steve Powers wrote:
> The first one was no issue. It is definately out of a Jet
> Industries, and is an EV-1C. It is still in the big metal
> box fully assembled with contactors and all. I can't mistake
> that thing. I told him it is worth about $250 if it works.
> I feel that is fair for one of these that can run 144 V / 300
> A. I've heard both 300 A and 400 A. Maybe 400 A?
I'm running an EV-1C out of a friend's 007 in my EV, and my E-Meter
reports a solid 450A, "out of the box" (i.e. without me having turned up
the screws yet). I don't know where the 300A and 400A figures you
suggest come from.
Cheers,
Roger.
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On 27 Dec 2006 at 12:27, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I used 3 layers [of braid] for my flooded NiCads ...
> The short sections of copper pipe on either end are very easy to do
> and make a much more reliable connection.
I would think that the KOH electrolyte would affect the copper.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 28 Dec 2006 at 10:44, peekay wrote:
> i wonder what you guys think of this baby from merc :
>
> http://www.gizmag.com/go/3628/
> The four-cylinder [engine] accelerated the F 300 Life-Jet
> from 0 to 100 km/h ...
I know I sound like a purist, and maybe a tad cranky - but could we please
stick to discussing EVs on this list? It's not intended to be a repository
for all kinds of vehicles that just happen to be "different."
Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Rush,
Yea, you need to keep the two connectors tight together. The standard clamps
were not an option for me. Problem solved with different clamp method.
Jeff
Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jeff wrote -
> Steve,
>
> I have used the SB-350 connectors for exchangeable batteries on competition
> vehicles with excellent results. Would see 700 amps very often. Only problems
> were due to mechanical separation and brake fluid. Keep them clean and tight.
> Probably be fine.
>
If there is a problem with the 2 connectors separating because of vibration,
stress, etc, there is locking mechanism that Anderson has. Here is a link to
the Anderson site which shows the lock and clamp.
http://www.andersonpower.com/products/multipole-sb.html
Scroll down to SB350 family, open up the Drawings+ file and chose the 919 SB350
Manual Release Locking Half w/Clamp
KTA has it up at their site, http://www.kta-ev.com/catalog/index.html ANDERSON
#919 350 Amp Double Pole Connector Locking Handle Assy, for $25
Merry Xmas and Happy New Year
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
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