EV Digest 6251
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) We have a glider!
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: gizmag Article: The Moovie: they built it .. merc's F-300 Life Jet
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Back from babyland and NiCD thoughts
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Not me!! Re: Nicad resetting vs NiMH
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Back from babyland and NiCD thoughts
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: How much flex in battery interconnects
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) FlexiBar (Was: How much flex in battery interconnects)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EVLN(Automakers' goal is to make batteries for $500 each)
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Bio-Gas generator
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EVLN(Automakers' goal is to make batteries for $500 each)
by Bob Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Zener regs revisited
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Fallout from producing advanced batteries???
by "james s" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: [EV] Re: EVLN(Automakers' goal is to make batteries for $500 each)
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 8 V battery charger
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Back from babyland and NiCD thoughts
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 8 V battery charger
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Fw: EVLN(Marin residents make their own EVs)-long
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
After seeing several GS/GSAs for US$300 to US$900, I bought
the first one I had looked at...
So, assuming I am picking up the jargon correctly, I now have
a future glider. I'll get it inspected tomorrow and try to clean
up 27 years of oily residues from the engine bay and hopefully
start with phase one of the conversion in a week.
First thing first, pictures: http://www.nn.cl/Autos/Gs/
Second, a small explanation on why I chose a GS:
-Its light (1000 kilograms)
-I has an enclosed but flat-loading boot/trunk
-Engine is aircooled flat four and it hangs from the gearbox
so electric motor install should be easy (looks like a VW beetle engine
mounted in the wrong side of the)
-Its entire electrical system is now 3 fuses!
-No power steering needed
-I fit in :)
-Its cheap
-It has Hydropneumatic selft leveling suspension, so batt weight
is automaticaly compensated for.
-I have a friend with 4 or 5 parts cars/donors to pick and pull parts from
-There is one in evalbum so I know its doable.
Why I chose this one?
-Original never overhauled engine (less than 100.000 miles)
-Two owners in 27 years
-Very little rust (only rusted out part it the trunklid and I can fix it)
-Gearbox can be shifted without clutch all day and it does not grind.
-Has original papers, including service history for the first few years and
original owners manual.
-And most importantly, it smells good. Has good vives. I am sure it's
grateful it's goong to be cared for. Had been neglected for years...
And whats phase one? Modifying the hidraulic system to run off DC.
I have a CX pump thats designed to run off a shaft and has a rubber damper
and a treadmill motor I'll initially run at 14volts (It should take
minutes to build pressure but I dont care) and then run at pack voltage.
I have to do that before taking the engine out because a GS has the
hyd pump integrated to the engine block and the car cannot be safely
moved around with no suspension at all and I need to at least be able
to tow it...
Then comes the motor, controller and batteries...
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
| Yo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I were to pick a 3 wheeler, I would pick the Carver. It's as if you were
in a jet cockpit. See videos...
http://www.carver-worldwide.com/Movies/LoadMovie.asp?S_ID=64&nc=1
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 10:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: gizmag Article: The Moovie: they built it .. merc's F-300 Life
Jet
On 28 Dec 2006 at 10:44, peekay wrote:
> i wonder what you guys think of this baby from merc :
>
> http://www.gizmag.com/go/3628/
> The four-cylinder [engine] accelerated the F 300 Life-Jet
> from 0 to 100 km/h ...
I know I sound like a purist, and maybe a tad cranky - but could we please
stick to discussing EVs on this list? It's not intended to be a repository
for all kinds of vehicles that just happen to be "different."
Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 28 Dec 2006 at 11:23, Christopher Zach wrote:
> ... am on the lookout for 50 used STM5-100's.
Where are you going to put them? Each is 24.8cm x 12cm, or about 300 cm^2.
So you'll need 15,000 square centimeters. In US lingo, that's about 16
square feet. Do you have that much space in your battery tray? You might
have to give up your trunk and/or back seat.
You'll also need very good ventilation. They shouldn't be operated over 45
deg C (internal temp; ambient will be lower). They shouldn't be charged at
internal temps over 35 deg C. Best life is under 30 deg C. They are not a
hot weather battery.
Try to avoid MR and MRE types manufactured before 2000. The later ones are
more reliable at high currents. Regrettably, the majority of the used ones
floating around are from the Alameda Station Car project Pivcos, and were
made around 1996. These should be pretty strictly limited to 250 amps, and
150-200 is better. (Might be fine with your Dolphin.)
The older type with individual cell caps don't seem to have this problem,
though they do need more frequent watering. I'd love to find some of these
early Safts, but they're pretty darn scarce these days.
PS - congrats on your new addition. Hope you get some sleep pretty soon. ;-
)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 28 Dec 2006 at 7:48, Christopher Zach wrote:
> According to manuals I have read, 1.0vpc is classified as
> discharged when the battery is at rest. I've seen quotes that you can
> take the batteries down to .7 volts under load, but that sounds dicey on
> a 252 cell string.
I've never seen 0.7 volts recommended, but then I don't have experience with
aircraft nicads.
Here's the relevant info from the Saft STM manual. It depends on current.
What they call "end voltage in discharge" is
Current Voltage
0.2C (20-36A*) 5.0v per 5-cell module (1.0vpc)
0.5C (50-90A*) 4.5v per module (0.9vpc)
1.0C (100-180A*) 4.0v per module (0.8vpc)
*Depends on module C5 capacity, 100 - 180AH
The manual also says : "In practice, STM modules can be discharged down to 0
volts. Even occasional reversal will not harm the blocks. However, it is
recommended not to reverse the blocks regularly, and it should be endeavored
to comply with the cutoff voltages listed [above]."
My recommendation is that you don't reverse them. If you stick to the
voltages given above, there's very little chance of reversing a cell.
Besides, when you reach those voltages, your vehicle will be stopping soon
anyway. Voltage for nicads holds up well until the end of charge, and then
it plummets.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 28 Dec 2006 at 13:36, David Roden wrote:
> am on the lookout for 50 used STM5-100's.
Also don't forget that you'll be hauling 625kg (1,375 lb) in batteries.
They're 12.5kg each, plus some mass for the cooling system and coolant if
you get the MRE versions.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:59 AM 12/28/2006, you wrote:
On 27 Dec 2006 at 12:27, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I used 3 layers [of braid] for my flooded NiCads ...
> The short sections of copper pipe on either end are very easy to do
> and make a much more reliable connection.
I would think that the KOH electrolyte would affect the copper.
Not a problem so far. The NiCads have 30,000 miles on them.
The central fill/vent system works very well to keep the electrolyte
contained.
Bill Dube'
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice product. That looks like the best solution I've seen. Is it very
expensive?
Bill Dube'
At 09:39 AM 12/28/2006, you wrote:
John,
You may want to consider this
product http://www.erico.com/products/FlexibarN.asp
I have used it. You can put a small bend or hump inbetween
battery post connections to allow for vibration and thermal
expansion. You strip the insulation at each end and put a hole
though it to bolt up. No extra terminal needed. Holes are tough
to drill. I use a punch.
Jeff Major
John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have a set of Interstate U2400 batteries with small L posts and I am
making my interconnects. I have some copper bar stock (.08 inch thick
by 1 inch wide) and 2/0 stranded welding cable. So far I have made an
interconnect with both and neither seems to have much flex for short
connections. The copper bar stock seems slightly better (and it is
much easier to get the proper fit.)
I think I will do my short interconnects with the copper stock meaning
I need to buy some more of it. Each interconnect will have at least 2
right angle bends so I suspect I may be over-analyzing the situation,
but I thaught it was worth asking.
for my next order would I be better off getting that is a bit thinner,
or stick with the .08 inch stock? As I recall I can get it in 1/16 if
an inch (.0625).
For reference my conversion will be 144 volts and I plan to use the
Zilla to limit battery draw to 400 amps.
---------------------------------
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Question? I thought the majority of Lithium came out
of mines in China. And that it is limited to that
local. Is this in correct?
This article make it sound as if its as common as Zinc
which is very common everywhere.
If the first thoughts are correct then the writer or
the engineer of the article is trying to pull over a
snow job similar to Hydrogen future.
--- bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> EVLN(Automakers' goal is to make batteries for $500
> each)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public
> EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for
> reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
>
http://www.boston.com/cars/news/articles/2006/12/24/us_automakers_join_battery_project/
> US automakers join battery project
> Goal is lighter, less costly hybrid cell
> By Jason Roberson, Detroit Free Press December 24,
> 2006
>
> President George Bush (left) and executives from
> Johnson Controls
> look inside a Ford Escape Hybrid SUV with a new
> lithium-ion
> battery during a tour of the Johnson Controls
> Battery Technology
> Center in Glendale, Wis., early this year. (Pablo
> Martinez
> Monsivais/Associated Press/FILE 2006)
>
> DETROIT -- Detroit's automakers are investing in
> Johnson Controls
> Inc. to develop a lighter and less expensive hybrid
> battery
> expected to be in vehicles by 2010 and able to
> compete with
> today's top-selling, Japanese-made hybrid batteries.
>
> The Milwaukee-based supplier will be up against a
> Toyota Motor
> Corp. joint venture called Panasonic Electric
> Vehicle Energy,
> which makes batteries for Toyota and has 74 percent
> of the hybrid
> battery market. Sanyo has a 13 percent market share,
> making
> batteries for the Ford Escape and Honda Accord, and
> an
> independent Panasonic battery operation making
> hybrid batteries
> for the Honda Civic has a 13 percent market share.
>
> Sales of hybrid vehicles, which increased from
> 84,000 in 2004 to
> 205,000 in 2005, show no signs of slowing down. But
> prices of
> nickel, the main element in nearly all hybrid
> batteries today,
> have increased from $7 a kilogram (2.2 pounds) in
> the mid-1990s
> to $25 a kilogram today, and automakers are
> considering
> alternatives.
>
> "Johnson Controls, because of their joint venture,
> is in a
> leadership position for lithium-ion," said Dave
> Hermance,
> Toyota's executive engineer of advanced technology
> vehicles. "The
> big advantage with JCI is they have a historic
> relationship with
> the automotive industry."
>
> A year ago, Johnson Controls, the world's largest
> manufacturer of
> conventional lead-acid auto batteries, formed a
> joint venture
> with Paris-based Saft Advanced Power Solutions to
> develop
> lithium-ion batteries.
>
> General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co.,
> DaimlerChrysler AG, and the
> U S Department of Energy -- members of the U S
> Advanced Battery
> Consortium -- awarded Johnson Controls and Saft a
> two-year
> contract Aug. 14 to develop lithium-ion batteries.
>
> The automakers and the Department of Energy signed a
> $125 million
> agreement in July to split the cost of hybrid
> battery development
> projects. Johnson Controls also is fronting money
> and
> contributing equipment, expertise, and employees to
> develop the
> batteries.
>
> The goal is to make batteries for $500 each.
>
> Alan Mumby, vice president and general manager of
> Johnson
> Control's hybrid battery business, said the company,
> with more
> than 100 employees devoted to the project in
> Milwaukee, is on
> target to meet its goals by the end of its contract.
>
> Johnson Controls has been working on hybrid
> batteries since the
> 1970s, though they were first made of lead acid. The
> company
> began exploring nickel-metal hydride in the early
> 1990s and
> lithium-ion in the late 1990s, Mumby said.
>
> "This is just a logical extension of our business,"
> Mumby said.
>
> Lithium-ion describes an energy transfer method of
> harnessing
> lithium, a plentiful material with three times the
> energy density
> of nickel.
>
> More than 50 percent of the manufacturing costs for
> lithium-ion
> and nickel-metal hydride batteries are for
> materials. Lithium-ion
> batteries will be cheaper than nickel-metal hydride
> batteries
> because it takes less lithium to deliver the same
> power as
> nickel, said Menahem Anderman, founder of Total
> Battery
> Consulting in Oregon House, Calif.
>
> The consumer electronics industry is the primary
> user of
> lithium-ion batteries, most of which are found in
> cellphones and
> laptops. But the popularity of the battery with
> consumer
> electronics could pose a problem for automakers,
> which would have
> little leverage with battery manufacturers to
> develop what they
> need.
>
> "If you want a specific battery, you have to do it
> yourself,"
> Hermance said. "And so that's what companies are
> doing. All of
> the auto companies have development programs, either
> internally
> or in partnerships with battery developers, to come
> up with these
> high-power batteries."
>
> Toyota uses a limited-volume lithium-ion battery in
> its Toyota
> Vitz, the Japanese version of the Yaris. But it
> often is not
> considered a true hybrid since it only uses
> lithium-ion
> technology for its automatic start-and-stop system.
>
> Lithium-ion battery manufacturers are working
> through safety
> concerns. One of the most critical manufacturing
> processes is the
> making of electrodes, the positive and negative
> poles of the
> battery, said Klaus Brandt, executive vice president
> of Lithium
> Technology Corp. in Plymouth Meeting, Pa. That
> process is
> typically done by a solvent-based coating process.
>
> "There's a safety risk, but there are also all sorts
> of
> environmental burdens in handling large amounts of
> solvents,"
> Brandt said.
>
> Another challenge in developing lithium-ion
> batteries is finding
> a market that Japanese manufacturers are not already
> dominating,
> Brandt said.
>
> "In general, Japanese battery manufacturers have
> made alliances
> with Japanese car manufacturers," Brandt said. "We
> believe that
> there is interest in getting access to this type of
> technology
> rather than going to Japan for joint ventures or
> other licensing
> deals."
>
> © Copyright 2006 Globe Newspaper Company.
> -
>
>
>
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Michaela,
To the extent that it is possible to run an EV on biogas and the fact that
people are actually doing so, I would disagree with David Roden about this
being too far off-topic for this list and of no general interest to EVers.
I think it is at least worthy of a brief mention, although I would agree
that any extended technical discussion of this would probably be OT.
You might want to contact Albert Straus of Straus Family Dairy Farm
(www.strausfamilycreamery.com) in Marin County, California. Albert owns and
drives a Toyota RAV4-EV which he charges with biogas-generated electricity
from his cow manure-fed methane digester
(www.strausfamilycreamery.com/?title=greenhouse%20gases). The methane
digester generates enough electricity to charge his EV plus provide 95% of
the electricity needed to power his house and run the farm. Albert provides
links on the above-referenced webpage to more information and experts on how
to do this.
I think this is a great idea and applaud your efforts to pursue this. Good
luck!
Charles Whalen
Two RAV4-EVs in Delray Beach, FL
(currently grid-charged, planned to be solar-charged in the future)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 10:29 AM
Subject: OT: Bio-Gas generator
We are running an agricultural business with enough waste products
available to power a small scale bio-gas system (www.littleriverranch.com)
I think it would be great to convert all that manure etc. to charge my EV
and maybe even produce some more power for the home.
I am looking for some insights on how to run an ICE on bio-gas (mostly
methane). I have googled for days, but it seems to be impossible to get an
appropriate genset in the 5 KW range.
If its too far off topic, I apologize.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think most lithium comes from Chile; China is secod.
/B
On Dec 28, 2006, at 11:36 AM, Bruce Weisenberger wrote:
Question? I thought the majority of Lithium came out
of mines in China. And that it is limited to that
local. Is this in correct?
This article make it sound as if its as common as Zinc
which is very common everywhere.
If the first thoughts are correct then the writer or
the engineer of the article is trying to pull over a
snow job similar to Hydrogen future.
--- bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
EVLN(Automakers' goal is to make batteries for $500
each)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public
EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for
reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.boston.com/cars/news/articles/2006/12/24/
us_automakers_join_battery_project/
US automakers join battery project
Goal is lighter, less costly hybrid cell
By Jason Roberson, Detroit Free Press December 24,
2006
President George Bush (left) and executives from
Johnson Controls
look inside a Ford Escape Hybrid SUV with a new
lithium-ion
battery during a tour of the Johnson Controls
Battery Technology
Center in Glendale, Wis., early this year. (Pablo
Martinez
Monsivais/Associated Press/FILE 2006)
DETROIT -- Detroit's automakers are investing in
Johnson Controls
Inc. to develop a lighter and less expensive hybrid
battery
expected to be in vehicles by 2010 and able to
compete with
today's top-selling, Japanese-made hybrid batteries.
The Milwaukee-based supplier will be up against a
Toyota Motor
Corp. joint venture called Panasonic Electric
Vehicle Energy,
which makes batteries for Toyota and has 74 percent
of the hybrid
battery market. Sanyo has a 13 percent market share,
making
batteries for the Ford Escape and Honda Accord, and
an
independent Panasonic battery operation making
hybrid batteries
for the Honda Civic has a 13 percent market share.
Sales of hybrid vehicles, which increased from
84,000 in 2004 to
205,000 in 2005, show no signs of slowing down. But
prices of
nickel, the main element in nearly all hybrid
batteries today,
have increased from $7 a kilogram (2.2 pounds) in
the mid-1990s
to $25 a kilogram today, and automakers are
considering
alternatives.
"Johnson Controls, because of their joint venture,
is in a
leadership position for lithium-ion," said Dave
Hermance,
Toyota's executive engineer of advanced technology
vehicles. "The
big advantage with JCI is they have a historic
relationship with
the automotive industry."
A year ago, Johnson Controls, the world's largest
manufacturer of
conventional lead-acid auto batteries, formed a
joint venture
with Paris-based Saft Advanced Power Solutions to
develop
lithium-ion batteries.
General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co.,
DaimlerChrysler AG, and the
U S Department of Energy -- members of the U S
Advanced Battery
Consortium -- awarded Johnson Controls and Saft a
two-year
contract Aug. 14 to develop lithium-ion batteries.
The automakers and the Department of Energy signed a
$125 million
agreement in July to split the cost of hybrid
battery development
projects. Johnson Controls also is fronting money
and
contributing equipment, expertise, and employees to
develop the
batteries.
The goal is to make batteries for $500 each.
Alan Mumby, vice president and general manager of
Johnson
Control's hybrid battery business, said the company,
with more
than 100 employees devoted to the project in
Milwaukee, is on
target to meet its goals by the end of its contract.
Johnson Controls has been working on hybrid
batteries since the
1970s, though they were first made of lead acid. The
company
began exploring nickel-metal hydride in the early
1990s and
lithium-ion in the late 1990s, Mumby said.
"This is just a logical extension of our business,"
Mumby said.
Lithium-ion describes an energy transfer method of
harnessing
lithium, a plentiful material with three times the
energy density
of nickel.
More than 50 percent of the manufacturing costs for
lithium-ion
and nickel-metal hydride batteries are for
materials. Lithium-ion
batteries will be cheaper than nickel-metal hydride
batteries
because it takes less lithium to deliver the same
power as
nickel, said Menahem Anderman, founder of Total
Battery
Consulting in Oregon House, Calif.
The consumer electronics industry is the primary
user of
lithium-ion batteries, most of which are found in
cellphones and
laptops. But the popularity of the battery with
consumer
electronics could pose a problem for automakers,
which would have
little leverage with battery manufacturers to
develop what they
need.
"If you want a specific battery, you have to do it
yourself,"
Hermance said. "And so that's what companies are
doing. All of
the auto companies have development programs, either
internally
or in partnerships with battery developers, to come
up with these
high-power batteries."
Toyota uses a limited-volume lithium-ion battery in
its Toyota
Vitz, the Japanese version of the Yaris. But it
often is not
considered a true hybrid since it only uses
lithium-ion
technology for its automatic start-and-stop system.
Lithium-ion battery manufacturers are working
through safety
concerns. One of the most critical manufacturing
processes is the
making of electrodes, the positive and negative
poles of the
battery, said Klaus Brandt, executive vice president
of Lithium
Technology Corp. in Plymouth Meeting, Pa. That
process is
typically done by a solvent-based coating process.
"There's a safety risk, but there are also all sorts
of
environmental burdens in handling large amounts of
solvents,"
Brandt said.
Another challenge in developing lithium-ion
batteries is finding
a market that Japanese manufacturers are not already
dominating,
Brandt said.
"In general, Japanese battery manufacturers have
made alliances
with Japanese car manufacturers," Brandt said. "We
believe that
there is interest in getting access to this type of
technology
rather than going to Japan for joint ventures or
other licensing
deals."
© Copyright 2006 Globe Newspaper Company.
-
=== message truncated ===
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--- Begin Message ---
On Dec 27, 2006, at 11:35 PM, Arthur W. Matteson wrote:
Tonight I repeated but modified my previous test showing that JB-Weld
has immeasurable electrical conductivity. This time instead of a
simple
resistance measurement (which gave "infinite" ohms), I put 65V on the
heatsink of the MOSFET in the following pictures. A digital multimeter
on the 200mV scale showed nothing but noise when touched to the
JB-Weld.
My test may have been faulty because I tested uncured JB weld. I stuck
the ends of my test probes in it about 0.02 inch apart and got a
resistance reading. Then I cleaned my test probes :-)
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A little late for this topic but Sudbury turned a new leaf in 78' with land
reclamation and proper care for the Sudbury Basin after years of no
consequence mining.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, Dec 28, 2006 at 11:54:21AM -0800, Bob Siebert wrote:
> I think most lithium comes from Chile; China is secod.
>
I had to go and check... (i live in Chile)
According to this:
http://www.indexmundi.com/en/commodities/minerals/lithium/lithium_t4.html
in 2005 Chile was the worlds largest producer of lithium carbonate,
followed by China. But australia was the overall largest producer but
of something called 'lithium spodumene' but I dont know what it is :)
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
| Yo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Powers wrote:
... I can't find an 8 V charger. Anyone know where to get one?
Steve, here are links to 3 different 8 volt chargers.
Does anyone have any advice on which one they think looks best?
BatteryMinder Plus
http://www.vdcelectronics.com/batteryminder_8v_1a.htm
Deltran Battery Tender
http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=DEL-021-0152
Power-Sonic
http://www.batteryweb.com/powersonic68vslachargers-detail.cfm?Model=PSCBW-8250A
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
On 28 Dec 2006 at 13:36, David Roden wrote:
am on the lookout for 50 used STM5-100's.
Also don't forget that you'll be hauling 625kg (1,375 lb) in batteries.
They're 12.5kg each, plus some mass for the cooling system and coolant if
you get the MRE versions.
True, however the Hawker pack weighs in at 21lbs/batt for the Prizm and
something like 35lbs/batt for the truck. Which comes to 1,050lbs for
Prizm and 1,820 for the truck.
As for cooling I could probably rig it into the truck's existing water
cooling system for the Dolphin. The radiator barely gets warm at full
power or charge.
Right now the BB600's weigh in at 3.2lbs per battery or 806lbs for the
pack in the truck. It's.... spry. Hm, maybe I could do 50 5-180's in the
truck...
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 04:15 AM 28/12/06 -0800, Steve wrote:
I'd like to squeeze some more life out of my T-875's, so I'd like to slow
charge each of them for a day or so (that will take 13 days total, but I'm
OK with that, since it's not working today ...) to see if I can bring them
back to life. Trouble is, I can't find an 8 V charger. Anyone know where
to get one?
G'day Steve, and All
By the sound of it, just get yourself a lab power supply (current and
voltage limited/adjustable) or two, and have the flexibility to do other
things later. 3 amps/30 volts is typical of the lower cost ones, if that's
the sort of current you're looking for? Probably the same sort of price as
an 8V charger, and a lot safer than 'hack' chargers such as variac/etc.
Hope this helps
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rick,
Nice article you wrote for the MarinIJ. I just read it now on
the marinij website (searching for "Marin residents make their
own electric vehicles", which gave me the URL
http://www.marinij.com/fastsearchresults/ci_4901466). I also
noticed it was picked up by Bruce Parmenter for the EVLN newsfeed
into the EV Discussion List (EVDL) (see below).
Maybe I didn't make it clear, or maybe our telephone interview
didn't quite go that way, but I really think the thing that
drives my EV passion is its applicability to RE (renewable
energy) and the flexibility of the fuel source, and the related
qualities of quietness, smoothness and ZEV-ness (zero-emission
vehicle). When I saw the light at a SEER (solar energy)
conference in Willits in 1992 as to how I could charge an EV from
RE or any other power source, it was a done deal for me at that
point. All I had to go do was implement it the best I could, and
the rest is history. I think that's how it has happened and is
happening for a number of EV'ers.
Also, I'd like to say that I do tend to view the EV stuff as just
a side trip in my life, kind of like a train on a railroad siding
if you will. The overall goal is to power the energy part of my
life from renewable energy (HomePower Magazine - homepower.com is
a good example), and to move other parts into things like organic
farming or sourcing therefrom, composting, etc. You have to
start somewhere.
Thanks,
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evlist" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 11:30 PM
Subject: EVLN(Marin residents make their own EVs)-long
> EVLN(Marin residents make their own EVs)-long
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint
rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
>
> Marin residents make their own electric vehicles
> Rick Polito Article Launched: 12/26/2006 01:01:57 AM PST
>
> [image
>
>
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site234/2006/1226/20061226__web%2026tinkerersbig_Gallery.jpg
> Richard Fechter of San Rafael is among many in Marin who have
> are building or modifying their own electric vehicles. Fechter
> has modified his scooter to do 0-25 in four seconds. (IJ
> photo/Jeff Vendsel)
>
> image
>
>
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site234/2006/1226/20061226__web%2026tinkerers2_Gallery.jpg
> Ron Gremban of Corte Madera works in his garage on his Toyota
> Prius, which he has turned into a plug-in hybrid that gets
more
> than 100 miles per gallon. (Special to the IJ/Meghan Roberts )
>
> image
>
>
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site234/2006/1226/20061226__web%20tinkerers3_Gallery.jpg
> Ron Gremban of Corte Madera stands in his garage with his
Toyota
> Prius, which he has converted into a plug-in hybrid that can
> travel more than 100 miles on one gallon of gas. (Special to
the
> IJ/Meghan Roberts)
>
> image
>
>
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site234/2006/1226/20061226__web%2026tinkerers4_Gallery.jpg
> Richard Fechter of San Rafael rides his modified scooter. (IJ
> photo/Jeff Vendsel ) ]
>
> The question on the movie marquee might ask "Who Killed the
> Electric Car?" but a legion of carport mechanics and soldering
> iron savants aren't waiting for a post-mortem.
>
> They're building their own electric vehicles, or EVs, their own
> cars of the future.
>
> Scavenging electric forklift motors and trading circuit-board
> secrets in Internet discussion groups, the E-tinkerers are
> hot-rodding electric scooters, Frankensteining electric bikes,
> putting the E in Easy Rider with battery-powered motorcycles
and
> maybe, even probably, steering the industry from cluttered work
> benches tucked behind anonymous suburban garage doors.
>
> Ron Gremban's garage door opens on a cul de sac in Corte
Madera.
> He's not shielding the 2004 Prius with the "100+ MPG" placard
> from corporate spies in some closed lab. The California Cars
> Initiative, a small private nonprofit founded four years ago,
was
> intended as a public, do-it-yourself project since the day he
> brought home his Toyota and started splicing circuits to create
> the first Prius plug-in hybrid.
>
> With help from an environmentally inclined squad of EV
ubergeeks
> and a stack of extra batteries, Gremban has tweaked his Prius
to
> drive the first 10 miles on battery power before the internal
> combustion engine kicks in. With most around town driving at
> shorter distances, Gremban is seeing performance "well over 100
> mpg." What he's not seeing is a plug-in hybrid he can buy off a
> showroom floor. "People who are interested in electric vehicles
> have had to go the do-it-yourself way for many years now,"
> Gremban says.
>
> And he should know. Gremban was one of three CalTech students
who
> drove an electric VW microbus across the country in 1968. He
gave
> up waiting for the big auto companies after California's zero
> emissions vehicle was "eviscerated" in an auto industry
lawsuit.
>
> He's not the only one who isn't waiting for a finished product.
> The EV home builders are plugged into their own underground
> community and Brian Hall is watching that community grow.
>
> Hall is the president of the National Electric Drag Racing
> Association and is the "main fuse" at Thunderstruck Motors in
> Santa Rosa, supplying batteries, motors, control circuits and
no
> small amount of advice to amateur innovators who bolt electric
> motors onto motorcycle frames and turn modest compact cars into
> tire-smoking electric hot rods. He has been doing it out of a
> 1,000-square-foot workshop but he's scouting for a space three
> times that size.
>
> When gas prices ticked past $3, the phone started ringing.
Movies
> like "Who Killed the Electric Car?" and "An Inconvenient Truth"
> have helped. "Some of the people we sell to are people who
> already have big solar panels are on the house," Hall says,
> referring to the green roots of the EV movement.
>
> But some of them aren't. Some of the people just want to burn
> rubber. Hall knows of one electric motorcyclist who can hit 150
> mph in the quarter mile and another driver with a converted
1972
> Datsun that "blows away" competitors in gas-powered muscle
cars.
>
> "Wanting to show people that it can be fun as well as
> environmentally sound" has become part of Hall's mission.
>
> The "fun" part is getting noticed. One of the most talked-about
> cars of 2006 is the Tesla Roadster, a $100,000 head-turning
> electric sports car that can hit 60 mph in a Ferarri-stomping 4
> seconds. Tesla is no major international auto manufacturer.
> Tuning the voltage into a converted Lotus Elise,
Peninsula-based
> Tesla may be closer to the bolt-it-on cult of the
E-hot-rodders.
>
> If that's what it takes to prove the electric car concept,
nobody
> is arguing with the results, but not everybody in the electric
> car cult is looking to turn heads and go James Bond on the back
> roads.
>
> Chuck Hursch just wanted to get to work.
>
> Hursch, a former software programmer who works at the United
> Parcel Service facility in San Rafael, wants to roll past the
gas
> pumps no matter the price-per-gallon. The political and
> environmental costs of gasoline are too high, he says. Hursch
> does it in a Volkswagen Rabbit he converted to electric a dozen
> years ago with a kit, "a lot of evenings after work and a lot
of
> weekends."
>
> Hursch is not a mechanic. "I could change the oil and stuff
like
> that," he says. It's possible, he says, just not simple.
>
> The VoltsRabbit has no computerized battery management system
and
> Hursch has to monitor the charging closely. The heavy lead acid
> batteries aren't cheap and they're hard on the brakes. The
> low-rolling-resistance tires are expensive. It cost him $10,000
> to get the car moving and the next set of batteries will put
him
> back another $1,600 or so. "It's been more of a challenge than
I
> wanted it to be," Hursch says.
>
> But if he wanted an electric car, he had to do it himself.
>
> "I'm not really interested in a regular Prius because it just
> runs on gasoline," Hursch says.
>
> The home-built EV community runs on that sentiment. Everybody
can
> recite some version of the conspiracy theory - big auto and big
> oil in an incestuous global scheme - but they don't spend a lot
> of time on it.
>
> Mostly, they work on their cars, their bikes, their motorcycles
> and scooters.
>
> Richard Fechter stepped into the EV underground for practical
> reasons, but he admits he has gone way past that. Fechter has
> modified a rather sedate looking "geezer scooter" to burn
rubber
> and accelerate from 0 to 25 in 4 seconds.
>
> When he bought his first electric scooter to carry him the last
> three-quarters of a mile from free parking to his job as a
> clinical engineer at the University of California San Francisco
> Medical Center, he was not impressed. "The performance was
> disappointing to say the least," he says. "Especially on
hills."
>
> And there was nothing better to buy. "Even the highest quality
> ones that are out there still suck," he says.
>
> He pulled out his soldering iron and some extra batteries, even
> hand coiling "rare earth" magnets for his own extra-strength
> motors, and took first place in his division in his first hill
> climbing race. And that wasn't enough.
>
> His latest toy is a modified Vego scooter. Fechter was
consulting
> for the now-defunct Marin company, and got the frame as
payment.
> He installed a new battery, a new controller and assorted
> tweaks.
>
> Now it screams. He can climb the hard-to-walk-up hill in his
> Terra Linda neighborhood at 20 mph. "You can get the tires
> smoking in about 2 seconds," Fechter says.
>
> But while he says "manufacturers are getting hints from stuff I
> did," he still has to wonder why no company offers a decent
> scooter. Most the parts "are off the shelf," he says. "I think
> people would pay for one that hold up and runs good," he says.
>
> If the performance matched the need, the market would follow,
> Fechter says. "When gas gets up to like $5 a gallon, then
you'll
> start so see some changes."
>
> Ian Hopper didn't need $5 gas to change his life. The Novato
dad
> says he thinks most people are so far removed from the
> consequences of their car addiction that the cost of gas is
just
> a distraction. Even high-mileage hybrids can't be the whole
> answer. "If you really want to be a conservationist," he says.
> "Get out of your car, right now."
>
> But Hopper knows the limitations of that. He is a cabinet maker
> with a shop in San Francisco. He sometimes finds himself
driving
> into the city. With a kid, grocery shopping, errands around
> Novato and a home at the top of a hill, a bike isn't always
> enough even close to home.
>
> He couldn't buy an electric vehicle to suit his needs and
> sensibilities.
>
> So he built one. Hopper ordered the Stokemonkey kit from an
> Oregon company and is building a "human-electric hybrid" bike
> that will haul his kid, hundreds of pounds of cargo and whir up
> steep grades. He has perhaps $2,500 wrapped up in it but Hopper
> confesses to being a "gearhead." He added a quiver of bells,
> whistles and doo-dads. A less ambitious Stokemonkey owner could
> be riding for less than $2,000.
>
> If it sounds like a lot of money for a commuter bike, Hopper
> doesn't see it that way. He calls it a station wagon on two
> wheels with 6 cents per charge and a 45-mile range. "For $2,500
> what do you get in terms of a car?" he says.
>
> Hopper isn't bothered that he had to do it himself. He's happy
> that other people are doing it with him. "It's going to come
from
> grassroots," he says of the EV movement. "Those waves tend to
be
> stronger anyway. They gather speed slowly but when they're
> moving, they're juggernauts."
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wants to ride that juggernaut.
>
> Rhodes, a vocal voice in the San Francisco EV circles, built
his
> first EV out of a 1958 Volkswagen Beetle - "the old one with
the
> oval windows." Since then, he's built or worked on "25 or 30
> more."
>
> Rhodes is no engineer. He plays the bassoon on the Bay Area
> symphony circuit. "All shade tree mechanics do is bolt things
> together," Rhodes says. "Putting an electric motor in a car is
> not too much harder than changing your starter."
>
> He compares the EV world to the hot rod phenomenon. The hot
> rodders helped birth the muscle car phenomenon - home mechanics
> directly influencing automobile industry. It could be happening
> with electric vehicles. "This is American ingenuity at its
best,"
> Rhodes says of the home-built EV movement.
>
> Gremban and his California Cars Initiative team say they have
> already plucked the auto industry's ear. In late November,
> General Motors flew him down to the Los Angeles Auto Show for a
> briefing timed to the company's announcement that they are
> developing a plug-in hybrid.
>
> "Toyota has gone all the way from saying nobody will ever want
to
> plug in their vehicles to saying 'We'll do it.' We're just
> waiting for the batteries to be ready and we want to be first."
>
> It's a huge change in attitude for carmakers. Not all of it
came
> from the home-built movement. But Gremban says California Cars
> Initiative played some part.
>
> It would seem a long way from the wind tunnels and design labs
of
> Detroit to Gremban's cramped garage where a 12-pack of paper
> towels is stacked next to the litter box and the rack of
> electrical parts But maybe it's not that far after all.
>
> "What has really been valuable coming out of the garages,"
> Gremban says, "is the actual demonstration of what's possible."
>
> ON THE NET
> Learn more about the home-built electric vehicle movement at
> these sites:
>
> - The Electric Auto Association: www.eaaev.org
>
> - The California Cars Initiative: www.calcars.org
>
> - The Electric Vehicle Album: www.austinev.org/evalbum
>
> - Photos and specs on Richard Fechter's electric scooter:
> www.austinev.org/evalbum/803
>
> - Thunderstruck Motors: www.thunderstruck-ev.com
>
> - The National Electric Drag Racing Association: www.nedra.com
>
> - Cleverchimp, designers of the Stokemonkey electric bicycle
kit:
> www.cleverchimp.com
>
> Contact Rick Polito via e-mail at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Copyright © 1999-2005 by MediaNews Group, Inc. and ANG
Newspapers
> -
>
>
>
>
>
> Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
>
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> ===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
>
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