EV Digest 6252
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 8 V battery charger
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: [EV] Re: EVLN(Automakers' goal is to make batteries for $500
each)
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EVLN(Automakers' goal is to make batteries for $500 each)
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: 8 V battery charger
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EVLN(Automakers' goal is to make batteries for $500 each)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Use 4x4 Transfer Case as 2-speed EV Transmission?
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EVLN(Automakers' goal is to make batteries for $500 each)
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Matsushita's heat-shield battery hits high gear
by Dennis Foulke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Use 4x4 Transfer Case as 2-speed EV Transmission?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: FlexiBar (Was: How much flex in battery interconnects)
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) 3 wheeler EV's .. stability issues
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EVLN(Man invents electric scooter, hopes a world success)
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Use 4x4 Transfer Case as 2-speed EV Transmission?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Use 4x4 Transfer Case as 2-speed EV Transmission?
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: FlexiBar (Was: How much flex in battery interconnects)
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EVLN(Man invents electric scooter, hopes a world success)
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: 3 wheeler EV's .. stability issues
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: FlexiBar (Was: How much flex in battery interconnects)
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) EVLN(Foster City lowering speed-limit to promote nEV use)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I'll have to agree with James, using a regulated
variable voltage supply is the best way to go.
I'm toping off my Saturn now with a 3A supply set to
15Volts since the car door was open for several hours
while I had a ceramic heater running (the window
slightly open and the driver floor board was soaked).
Here's a few examples of reasonably priced units that
will work on 6V, 8V and 12V batteries;
http://cgi.ebay.com/Kenwood-PA18-3-Regulated-DC-Power-Supply-0-18V-0-3A_W0QQitemZ190065036383QQihZ009QQcategoryZ58286QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Power-Designs-6050C-Universal-DC-Source-Power-Supply_W0QQitemZ250064834978QQihZ015QQcategoryZ58286QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-MASTECH-REGULATED-LAB-DC-POWER-SUPPLY-0-30V-0-6A_W0QQitemZ120068222479QQihZ002QQcategoryZ58286QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/TEKPOWER-VARIABLE-DC-POWER-SUPPLY-0-18-VOLTS-0-3-AMPS_W0QQitemZ250064630332QQihZ015QQcategoryZ58286QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mastech-Variable-Linear-Lab-Power-Supply-0-30V-0-5A_W0QQitemZ120068645919QQihZ002QQcategoryZ32720QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
You can find many more on ebay by searching for 'power
supply' under 'Industrial Electrical & test' category.
Rod
--- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 04:15 AM 28/12/06 -0800, Steve wrote:
> >I'd like to squeeze some more life out of my
> T-875's, so I'd like to slow
> >charge each of them for a day or so (that will take
> 13 days total, but I'm
> >OK with that, since it's not working today ...) to
> see if I can bring them
> >back to life. Trouble is, I can't find an 8 V
> charger. Anyone know where
> >to get one?
>
> G'day Steve, and All
>
> By the sound of it, just get yourself a lab power
> supply (current and
> voltage limited/adjustable) or two, and have the
> flexibility to do other
> things later. 3 amps/30 volts is typical of the
> lower cost ones, if that's
> the sort of current you're looking for? Probably the
> same sort of price as
> an 8V charger, and a lot safer than 'hack' chargers
> such as variac/etc.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Regards
>
> James
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A Chinese gov source said that up to 65 % of all Lithium in world is in
soil of China. There are Lithium mines even in Finland. So I think it
can be found about anywhaere. Just the concentration might not be worhty
to mine.
Was there specs what they intend to sell with 500 USD ? If it is 100 pcs
of 5 Ah cells.. It's very doable. Today.
-Jukka
Eduardo Kaftanski kirjoitti:
On Thu, Dec 28, 2006 at 11:54:21AM -0800, Bob Siebert wrote:
I think most lithium comes from Chile; China is secod.
I had to go and check... (i live in Chile)
According to this:
http://www.indexmundi.com/en/commodities/minerals/lithium/lithium_t4.html
in 2005 Chile was the worlds largest producer of lithium carbonate,
followed by China. But australia was the overall largest producer but
of something called 'lithium spodumene' but I dont know what it is :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is Dave Hermance speaking from his watery grave now?
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/11/david_hermance_.html
On 12/27/06, bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
EVLN(Automakers' goal is to make batteries for $500 each)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.boston.com/cars/news/articles/2006/12/24/us_automakers_join_battery_project/
US automakers join battery project
Goal is lighter, less costly hybrid cell
By Jason Roberson, Detroit Free Press December 24, 2006
President George Bush (left) and executives from Johnson Controls
look inside a Ford Escape Hybrid SUV with a new lithium-ion
battery during a tour of the Johnson Controls Battery Technology
Center in Glendale, Wis., early this year. (Pablo Martinez
Monsivais/Associated Press/FILE 2006)
DETROIT -- Detroit's automakers are investing in Johnson Controls
Inc. to develop a lighter and less expensive hybrid battery
expected to be in vehicles by 2010 and able to compete with
today's top-selling, Japanese-made hybrid batteries.
The Milwaukee-based supplier will be up against a Toyota Motor
Corp. joint venture called Panasonic Electric Vehicle Energy,
which makes batteries for Toyota and has 74 percent of the hybrid
battery market. Sanyo has a 13 percent market share, making
batteries for the Ford Escape and Honda Accord, and an
independent Panasonic battery operation making hybrid batteries
for the Honda Civic has a 13 percent market share.
Sales of hybrid vehicles, which increased from 84,000 in 2004 to
205,000 in 2005, show no signs of slowing down. But prices of
nickel, the main element in nearly all hybrid batteries today,
have increased from $7 a kilogram (2.2 pounds) in the mid-1990s
to $25 a kilogram today, and automakers are considering
alternatives.
"Johnson Controls, because of their joint venture, is in a
leadership position for lithium-ion," said Dave Hermance,
Toyota's executive engineer of advanced technology vehicles. "The
big advantage with JCI is they have a historic relationship with
the automotive industry."
A year ago, Johnson Controls, the world's largest manufacturer of
conventional lead-acid auto batteries, formed a joint venture
with Paris-based Saft Advanced Power Solutions to develop
lithium-ion batteries.
General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co., DaimlerChrysler AG, and the
U S Department of Energy -- members of the U S Advanced Battery
Consortium -- awarded Johnson Controls and Saft a two-year
contract Aug. 14 to develop lithium-ion batteries.
The automakers and the Department of Energy signed a $125 million
agreement in July to split the cost of hybrid battery development
projects. Johnson Controls also is fronting money and
contributing equipment, expertise, and employees to develop the
batteries.
The goal is to make batteries for $500 each.
Alan Mumby, vice president and general manager of Johnson
Control's hybrid battery business, said the company, with more
than 100 employees devoted to the project in Milwaukee, is on
target to meet its goals by the end of its contract.
Johnson Controls has been working on hybrid batteries since the
1970s, though they were first made of lead acid. The company
began exploring nickel-metal hydride in the early 1990s and
lithium-ion in the late 1990s, Mumby said.
"This is just a logical extension of our business," Mumby said.
Lithium-ion describes an energy transfer method of harnessing
lithium, a plentiful material with three times the energy density
of nickel.
More than 50 percent of the manufacturing costs for lithium-ion
and nickel-metal hydride batteries are for materials. Lithium-ion
batteries will be cheaper than nickel-metal hydride batteries
because it takes less lithium to deliver the same power as
nickel, said Menahem Anderman, founder of Total Battery
Consulting in Oregon House, Calif.
The consumer electronics industry is the primary user of
lithium-ion batteries, most of which are found in cellphones and
laptops. But the popularity of the battery with consumer
electronics could pose a problem for automakers, which would have
little leverage with battery manufacturers to develop what they
need.
"If you want a specific battery, you have to do it yourself,"
Hermance said. "And so that's what companies are doing. All of
the auto companies have development programs, either internally
or in partnerships with battery developers, to come up with these
high-power batteries."
Toyota uses a limited-volume lithium-ion battery in its Toyota
Vitz, the Japanese version of the Yaris. But it often is not
considered a true hybrid since it only uses lithium-ion
technology for its automatic start-and-stop system.
Lithium-ion battery manufacturers are working through safety
concerns. One of the most critical manufacturing processes is the
making of electrodes, the positive and negative poles of the
battery, said Klaus Brandt, executive vice president of Lithium
Technology Corp. in Plymouth Meeting, Pa. That process is
typically done by a solvent-based coating process.
"There's a safety risk, but there are also all sorts of
environmental burdens in handling large amounts of solvents,"
Brandt said.
Another challenge in developing lithium-ion batteries is finding
a market that Japanese manufacturers are not already dominating,
Brandt said.
"In general, Japanese battery manufacturers have made alliances
with Japanese car manufacturers," Brandt said. "We believe that
there is interest in getting access to this type of technology
rather than going to Japan for joint ventures or other licensing
deals."
(c) Copyright 2006 Globe Newspaper Company.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Dec 28, 2006, at 4:15 AM, Steve Powers wrote:
I'd like to squeeze some more life out of my T-875's, so I'd like to
slow charge each of them for a day or so (that will take 13 days
total, but I'm OK with that, since it's not working today ...) to see
if I can bring them back to life. Trouble is, I can't find an 8 V
charger. Anyone know where to get one?
That sounds like a job for a big diode and a few light bulbs. This
method will create a constant current charge with no voltage
regulation. My Dad and I did this for years to the old Farmall tractor
several times over the winter (we didn't have a 6v charger.) Since
flooded GC batteries tend to take a few amps without the voltage flying
out of bounds it worked well. Recharged my old Beetle (enough to start)
a few nights too!
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Question? I thought the majority of Lithium came out
> of mines in China. And that it is limited to that
> local. Is this in correct?
Google is our friend:
"On Earth, lithium is widely distributed, but because of its reactivity
does not occur in its free form. In keeping with the origin of its name,
lithium forms a minor part of almost all igneous rocks and is also found
in many natural brines. Lithium is the thirty-first most abundant element,
contained particularly in the minerals spodumene, lepidolite, petalite,
and amblygonite. On average, Earth's crust contains 65 parts per million
(ppm) lithium."
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If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am still trying to find a better solution than to use a manual
transmission for a DC EV. How about using a transfer case for a 4x4?
The newer transfer cases allow electrical shifting, "shift-on-the-fly"
between 4L and 4H, and full-time use (allow front and rear axles at
slightly different speed much like a differential). The ratio of L
and normally 1:2.something and H is normally 1:1 which is like second
and 4th gears on a manual transmission, exactly what a DC motor needs.
Could a transfer case be used to replace the entire transmission?
And, if it is a FWD, the entire tranaxle? Granted you might still
need the final drive ratio in this case (should be able to get
off-the-shelf crawl drive). And, you will have to fabricate custom
half shafts.
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hopefully lithium sources is not to far off topic, but if not read on:
i agree with the last email, however i only know of two sources in the US
personaly, but i'm sure there are many others. one is a lithium 'mine' in
silverpeak NV [near mineral ridge where i did field work, needless to say the
the people drinking the water out there are very mellow, however few people in
mining towns drink much water] there others in GA, in fact the soda drink 7-UP
orginaly had lithium in it.
so supply of lithium should not be a limiting factor for lithium battiers
Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Question? I thought the majority of Lithium came out
> of mines in China. And that it is limited to that
> local. Is this in correct?
Google is our friend:
"On Earth, lithium is widely distributed, but because of its reactivity
does not occur in its free form. In keeping with the origin of its name,
lithium forms a minor part of almost all igneous rocks and is also found
in many natural brines. Lithium is the thirty-first most abundant element,
contained particularly in the minerals spodumene, lepidolite, petalite,
and amblygonite. On average, Earth's crust contains 65 parts per million
(ppm) lithium."
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
check out my blog:
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
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--- Begin Message ---
Matsushita's heat-shield battery hits high gear
Yoshiko Hara <mailto:>
(12/27/2006 2:29 PM EST)
URL: http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=196702160
TOKYO - Capping years of research, Matsushita has moved to mass produce
a lithium-ion battery said to avert the excessive heat dangers that
recently bedeviled Sony batteries in portables.
A heat resistance layer (HRL) coated on the cathode allows Matsushita
Battery Industrial Co. Ltd. to use a highly efficient nickel-oxide
anode, the company said.
Matsushita began limited use of the HRL, a porous material several
microns thick, earlier in 2006 then shifted, in mid-December, to volume
production, with a monthly capacity of 5 million units.
Matsushita said the new battery does not generate excessive heat even if
foreign particles picked up in the production process cause a short.
Sony Corp. was forced into a series of costly recalls in 2006 after
batteries overheated and, in some instances, caught fire in laptops or
other portables.
For Matsushita, the breakthrough caps years of effort. "I assigned
engineers to investigate thoroughly the reason and mechanism why a
lithium-ion battery catches fire when I became the president [in 2004],"
said Toru Ishida, president of Matsushita Battery. "We got the solution
from the basic research."
Munehisa Ikoma, director of the Technology Development Center, said,
"There have always been demands for larger capacity. In 10 years, the
battery capacity grew about twice larger." Manufacturers have been
making an effort to prevent mixing foreign particles during production
for safety. "More effort would be required for higher-capacity battery
production, but we'll soon face the limit," he said. "We need brand new
technology that would not cause thermal runaway in a high-capacity
battery even if particles are mingled in the production process."
According to a Consumer Product Safety Commission report, the number of
batteries recalled sharply increased over 1 million units in 2004. The
timing accords when the battery capacity in an 18650 cylindrical (18mm
diameter x 65 mm long) package surpassed 2.4 Ah (ampere hour). The 18650
is a typical battery package for notebook PCs. At present 18650 with
2.6-Ah capacity is widely used for notebook PCs in a form of a battery
pack that houses six or nine 18650s.
Matsushita developed a lithium-ion battery with 2.8-Ah capacity in March
2005 using nickel oxide for the anode in place of conventional cobalt or
nickel-manganese anodes to generate more power. The company positioned
it as the second-generation battery with the introduction of nickel
oxide for the anode.
A heat resistance layer (HRL) coated on the cathode enabled it to use
the highly efficient nickel oxide anode, said Ikoma. The conventional
polyolefin insulator melts when the heat exceeds about 100°centigrade,
which finally results in fire in the worst case. The HRL is a ceramic
material with higher insulating and heat resistance. It withstands heat
of more than 1,000° centigrade. Even if a foreign substance causes a
short circuit, it ends at the HRL with little heat.
Matsushita expects high-capacity lithium-ion batteries with more than
2.6 Ah to account for more than 50 percent of the notebook PC battery
market in 2010. In the high-capacity sector, Matsushita aims at the top
position with this safety technology, said Ishida. It is now third,
behind Sanyo and Sony.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Edward,
Here is a ratio formula that will put you in the ball park for what overall
ratio you need for a certain weight of the EV for a normal starting
acceleration from 0 mph to 30 mph in 10 seconds.
Weight/400 = Overall ratio
By experimentation, it was found if the overall ratio was held constant for
any EV weight, the motor ampere reduces.
OR
It was found it the overall ratio was reduce proportional to the weight,
than the motor ampere remains constant.
Example:
Weight in lbs/400 Overall Ratio Motor Amps
8000/400 20:1 200
6000/400 15:1 200
4000/400 10:1 200
3000/400 7.5:1 200
2000/400 5:1 200
OR
8000/400 20:1 200
6000/400 20:1 150
4000/400 20:1 100
3000/400 20:1 75
2000/400 20:1 50
My EV weigh at one time 7850 lbs and had a 19.495:1 overall ratio which the
motor ampere will held at 180 amperes to 25 mph before shifting into 2nd
gear.
Today my EV weighs 6850 lbs and the motor amperes is about 175 amperes at 0
to 30 mph in 10 seconds.
I am running a Zilla, so my battery ampere is held between 40 to 110 ampere
during this normal acceleration period.
My batteries are current limit to 250 amps.
This might give you some ideal what gear ratio you might need.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:19 PM
Subject: Use 4x4 Transfer Case as 2-speed EV Transmission?
> I am still trying to find a better solution than to use a manual
> transmission for a DC EV. How about using a transfer case for a 4x4?
>
> The newer transfer cases allow electrical shifting, "shift-on-the-fly"
> between 4L and 4H, and full-time use (allow front and rear axles at
> slightly different speed much like a differential). The ratio of L
> and normally 1:2.something and H is normally 1:1 which is like second
> and 4th gears on a manual transmission, exactly what a DC motor needs.
>
> Could a transfer case be used to replace the entire transmission?
> And, if it is a FWD, the entire tranaxle? Granted you might still
> need the final drive ratio in this case (should be able to get
> off-the-shelf crawl drive). And, you will have to fabricate custom
> half shafts.
>
> --
> Edward Ang
> President
> AIR Lab Corp
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I couldn't find where to purchase it via googling, any leads on where to
purchase this? Yes it's quick, lightweight, low resistance, few connection
points, seems like the ideal solution!
- Tony
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Nice product. That looks like
the best solution I've seen. Is it very
expensive?
Bill Dube'
At 09:39 AM 12/28/2006, you wrote:
>John,
>
> You may want to consider this
> product http://www.erico.com/products/FlexibarN.asp
>
> I have used it. You can put a small bend or hump inbetween
> battery post connections to allow for vibration and thermal
> expansion. You strip the insulation at each end and put a hole
> though it to bolt up. No extra terminal needed. Holes are tough
> to drill. I use a punch.
>
> Jeff Major
>
>
>John wrote:
> I have a set of Interstate U2400 batteries with small L posts and I am
>making my interconnects. I have some copper bar stock (.08 inch thick
>by 1 inch wide) and 2/0 stranded welding cable. So far I have made an
>interconnect with both and neither seems to have much flex for short
>connections. The copper bar stock seems slightly better (and it is
>much easier to get the proper fit.)
>
>I think I will do my short interconnects with the copper stock meaning
>I need to buy some more of it. Each interconnect will have at least 2
>right angle bends so I suspect I may be over-analyzing the situation,
>but I thaught it was worth asking.
>
>for my next order would I be better off getting that is a bit thinner,
>or stick with the .08 inch stock? As I recall I can get it in 1/16 if
>an inch (.0625).
>
>For reference my conversion will be 144 volts and I plan to use the
>Zilla to limit battery draw to 400 amps.
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
".. please stick to discussing EVs .."
fully agree with this .. the point of bringing up the 3 wheeler from
merc is to get some inputs on the "stability" issues of 3 wheelers
the carver gas a single wheel in the front
the life-jet has TWO wheels in the front
mercedes talks about top speeds of 200kph (?) which is unheard of
in 3 wheelers .. i wonder what would happen when turning at high
speeds in 3 wheelers
THAT is an issue for EV's .. stability .. 2 wheels in front of rear ?
irrespective of the batteries, controllers and charging systems ..
types, models, designs and capacitites
i guess syncronizing two hub motors may be a problem ..
mechanically sync-ing may waste valuable watts ..
ONE wheel driven 3 wheeler may be THE EV for future
balancing 2 wheelers is always an issue
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:53 PM
Subject: RE: gizmag Article: The Moovie: they built it .. merc's F-300 Life
Jet
> If I were to pick a 3 wheeler, I would pick the Carver. It's as if you
were
> in a jet cockpit. See videos...
> http://www.carver-worldwide.com/Movies/LoadMovie.asp?S_ID=64&nc=1
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David Roden
> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 10:59 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: gizmag Article: The Moovie: they built it .. merc's F-300
Life
> Jet
>
> On 28 Dec 2006 at 10:44, peekay wrote:
>
> > i wonder what you guys think of this baby from merc :
> >
> > http://www.gizmag.com/go/3628/
>
> > The four-cylinder [engine] accelerated the F 300 Life-Jet
> > from 0 to 100 km/h ...
>
> I know I sound like a purist, and maybe a tad cranky - but could we please
> stick to discussing EVs on this list? It's not intended to be a
repository
> for all kinds of vehicles that just happen to be "different."
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
is there a pix or video of this vehicle ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evlist" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 1:04 PM
Subject: EVLN(Man invents electric scooter, hopes a world success)
> EVLN(Man invents electric scooter, hopes a world success)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> http://www.taiwanheadlines.gov.tw/ct.asp?xItem=56386&ctNode=9
> Home > Science & Technology Science & Technology News
> Man invents electric scooter he hopes will be a world success
> 12/28/2006 (Liberty Times)
<snipped>
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Could a transfer case be used to replace the entire transmission?
Probably. If you are interested in pursuing this, you might try looking
into "divorced" transfer cases. THese are the ones that separate from the
transmission, often fed by a small drive shaft.
> And, if it is a FWD, the entire tranaxle?
I'm not aware of transfer cases being used on FWD vehicles. I've only
seen them on 4WD or AWD vehicles.
Every one I've seen has separate differentials on the front and rear axle.
Do you (or anyone else) know of a FWD vehicle that uses a transfer case,
or even a 4WD vehicle that is normally FWD rather than RWD?
> off-the-shelf crawl drive). And, you will have to fabricate custom
> half shafts.
or use a vehicle that normally uses the transfer case so you can use the
stock axle setup.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm curious why you don't think a manual transmission IS a good solution.
They are efficient and durable, and you can often get away with very little
shifting. But, if you want maximum performace, you have the flexibility to
fo through the gears.
Phil
From: "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Use 4x4 Transfer Case as 2-speed EV Transmission?
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 17:19:06 -0800
I am still trying to find a better solution than to use a manual
transmission for a DC EV. How about using a transfer case for a 4x4?
The newer transfer cases allow electrical shifting, "shift-on-the-fly"
between 4L and 4H, and full-time use (allow front and rear axles at
slightly different speed much like a differential). The ratio of L
and normally 1:2.something and H is normally 1:1 which is like second
and 4th gears on a manual transmission, exactly what a DC motor needs.
Could a transfer case be used to replace the entire transmission?
And, if it is a FWD, the entire tranaxle? Granted you might still
need the final drive ratio in this case (should be able to get
off-the-shelf crawl drive). And, you will have to fabricate custom
half shafts.
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
_________________________________________________________________
Experience the magic of the holidays. Talk to Santa on Messenger.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0080000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/santabot/default.aspx?locale=en-us
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thought this was very interesting as well. They do refer to the product as
being applicable for "low voltage" applications (not sure what "low" means).
I inquired from the U.S. Distributor, which is Erico (http://www.erico.com)
using their web form about purchasing. According to the website they are in
Ohio. I didn't see any online ordering capability.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Hwang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: FlexiBar (Was: How much flex in battery interconnects)
I couldn't find where to purchase it via googling, any leads on where to
purchase this? Yes it's quick, lightweight, low resistance, few connection
points, seems like the ideal solution!
- Tony
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Nice product.
That looks like the best solution I've seen. Is it very
expensive?
Bill Dube'
At 09:39 AM 12/28/2006, you wrote:
John,
You may want to consider this
product http://www.erico.com/products/FlexibarN.asp
I have used it. You can put a small bend or hump inbetween
battery post connections to allow for vibration and thermal
expansion. You strip the insulation at each end and put a hole
though it to bolt up. No extra terminal needed. Holes are tough
to drill. I use a punch.
Jeff Major
John wrote:
I have a set of Interstate U2400 batteries with small L posts and I am
making my interconnects. I have some copper bar stock (.08 inch thick
by 1 inch wide) and 2/0 stranded welding cable. So far I have made an
interconnect with both and neither seems to have much flex for short
connections. The copper bar stock seems slightly better (and it is
much easier to get the proper fit.)
I think I will do my short interconnects with the copper stock meaning
I need to buy some more of it. Each interconnect will have at least 2
right angle bends so I suspect I may be over-analyzing the situation,
but I thaught it was worth asking.
for my next order would I be better off getting that is a bit thinner,
or stick with the .08 inch stock? As I recall I can get it in 1/16 if
an inch (.0625).
For reference my conversion will be 144 volts and I plan to use the
Zilla to limit battery draw to 400 amps.
---------------------------------
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I do not know of any pictures online but I have heard that an inventor in
California figured out a way to steer a vehicle by leaning. They became
quite popular and I believe they ended up calling them skate boards. They
also used no fuel and were considered quite an environmentally friendly form
of transportation ;-)
Roderick
----- Original Message -----
From: "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: EVLN(Man invents electric scooter, hopes a world success)
is there a pix or video of this vehicle ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evlist" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 1:04 PM
Subject: EVLN(Man invents electric scooter, hopes a world success)
EVLN(Man invents electric scooter, hopes a world success)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.taiwanheadlines.gov.tw/ct.asp?xItem=56386&ctNode=9
Home > Science & Technology Science & Technology News
Man invents electric scooter he hopes will be a world success
12/28/2006 (Liberty Times)
<snipped>
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
These seem to be very stable. They can title to 45 degrees. See videos...
http://www.carver-worldwide.com/Movies/LoadMovie.asp?S_ID=64&nc=1
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of peekay
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 8:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: 3 wheeler EV's .. stability issues
".. please stick to discussing EVs .."
fully agree with this .. the point of bringing up the 3 wheeler from
merc is to get some inputs on the "stability" issues of 3 wheelers
the carver gas a single wheel in the front
the life-jet has TWO wheels in the front
mercedes talks about top speeds of 200kph (?) which is unheard of
in 3 wheelers .. i wonder what would happen when turning at high
speeds in 3 wheelers
THAT is an issue for EV's .. stability .. 2 wheels in front of rear ?
irrespective of the batteries, controllers and charging systems ..
types, models, designs and capacitites
i guess syncronizing two hub motors may be a problem ..
mechanically sync-ing may waste valuable watts ..
ONE wheel driven 3 wheeler may be THE EV for future
balancing 2 wheelers is always an issue
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:53 PM
Subject: RE: gizmag Article: The Moovie: they built it .. merc's F-300 Life
Jet
> If I were to pick a 3 wheeler, I would pick the Carver. It's as if you
were
> in a jet cockpit. See videos...
> http://www.carver-worldwide.com/Movies/LoadMovie.asp?S_ID=64&nc=1
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David Roden
> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 10:59 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: gizmag Article: The Moovie: they built it .. merc's F-300
Life
> Jet
>
> On 28 Dec 2006 at 10:44, peekay wrote:
>
> > i wonder what you guys think of this baby from merc :
> >
> > http://www.gizmag.com/go/3628/
>
> > The four-cylinder [engine] accelerated the F 300 Life-Jet
> > from 0 to 100 km/h ...
>
> I know I sound like a purist, and maybe a tad cranky - but could we please
> stick to discussing EVs on this list? It's not intended to be a
repository
> for all kinds of vehicles that just happen to be "different."
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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>
>
>
>
> --
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> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/606 - Release Date:
28/12/2006
>
>
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
>From their webpage go to "Contact Us" and then select "Where to buy our
>products". Then you can search by country, State and
Brand of product. Here's the listings just for California.
ERICO USA
34600 Solon Road
Solon, OH 44139
USA
Phone: +1-800-497-4304
Fax: +1-800-944-4296
Advantage Electric
31857 Hayman Street
Hayward, CA 94544
USA
Phone: 510-264-9070
Fax: 510-264-9073
Schoenbachler EMS
222 Fashion Lane
Suite 201
Tustin, CA 92780
USA
Phone: 714-544-1888
Fax: 714-544-1887
Plough Electric Supply
1155 Bryant Street
San Francisco, CA 94103
USA
Phone: 1-800-851-8228
Fax:
PowerMatic Associates
1057 Serpentine Lane
Pleasanton, CA 94566
USA
Phone: 1-800-966-8513
Fax: 1-925-461-7184
*Local CA. Value Add ERIFLEX FLEXIBAR Distributor*
Westron Sales, Inc.
7640 Las Positas Rd.
Livermore, CA 94551
USA
Phone: 925-960-9600
Fax: 925-960-9640
Northern California, Northern Nevada
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Tony Hwang
> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 5:50 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: FlexiBar (Was: How much flex in battery interconnects)
>
>
> I couldn't find where to purchase it via googling, any leads on where to
> purchase this? Yes it's quick, lightweight,
> low resistance, few connection points, seems like the ideal solution!
>
> - Tony
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Foster City lowering speed-limit to promote nEV use)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.sfist.com/archives/2006/12/28/who_brought_back_the_electric_car.php
December 28, 2006 Who Brought Back the Electric Car
Foster City is debating about lowering the speed limit on some
roads in an attempt to encourage people to drive electric cars.
Not those spiffy little electric cars that were killed by the car
companies and buried somewhere in the desert, but whatever
electric cars are running around these days. Like golf carts. Or
Segway scooters. Or, well we're not exactly sure what other kinds
of electric cars are out there. Maybe one of those old bullpen
carts baseball teams had in the 70's to bring a pitcher in from
the bullpen. Man, that would be pretty sweet to own one of those.
Talk about pimped out rides.
The plan is to allow speeds of 25 on roads that up til now have a
speed limit of 35. This will make it so people could get out and
ride one of those cars without having to worry about not
following the speed limit. The measure passed by a 4-1 vote a
couple of weeks ago, but they decided to redo the vote once they
actually sat down and thought about what they were proposing. Or
at least heard from actual voters who said something along the
lines of "what, are you frickin' crazy?" Besides the fact there's
not really any cars of which the city voted for (NEVs which are
short for Neighborhood Electric Vehicles) but people aren't
psyched about their commutes taking even longer than they already
are.
The measure will be looked at and a revote could be held on
January 2nd. Posted by Jon in Transportation
===
http://www.examiner.com/a-478311~Council_still_at_odds_over_lowering_speed_limits_to_allow_for_electric_cars.html
Council still at odds over lowering speed limits to allow for
electric cars Jason Goldman-Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Examiner Dec 28, 2006 3:00 AM
SAN FRANCISCO - Drivers who get stuck behind someone doing less
than 35 miles per hour on Edgewater Boulevard this week might
find themselves honking at the mayor.
As part of an ongoing debate over whether to lower speed limits
to make them accessible to small Neighborhood Electric Vehicles,
Mayor Ron Cox said he plans to get out and do some driving
himself to find out at what speed traffic typically flows.
On Dec. 18, the City Council voted 4-1, with Councilwoman Linda
Koelling dissenting, to lower the speed limits on sections of
Shell and Edgewater boulevards to encourage the use of the
electric golf cartlike cars, a move that won the support of local
environmentalists.
Since then, however, doubts have emerged, and the council is now
set to consider reopening the issue at its Jan. 2 meeting.
Councilwoman Pam Frisella said she had received e-mails from
residents who didnt want to give up the convenience of faster
roads.
People get worked up, I know because I get the e-mails saying
Dont you people have better things to do, she said. I feel
like were kind of prematurely punishing the people who are
trying to get in and out of town.
Other than the NEV used by the Foster City Police Department for
special events and patrols, Frisella said she knows of only one
other such vehicle in the city.
The electric vehicles, which require a license, insurance and
registration to drive, are allowed on streets with speeds up to
35 miles an hour, but travel at approximately 25 miles an hour.
Foster City is already almost entirely accessible to NEVs because
the city is relatively flat, compact and all but five stretches
of road are 35 mph zones.
Cox says the lowered speeds and planned outreach would promote
alternative energy.
I love it, I think its a great idea, Cox said. I was thinking
when I was paying $3.30 a gallon for gas that it would be nice to
just jump in an electric car for running around town.
But Frisella said commuters will not want to add any time to
their morning drives.
Theres no need to get people in an uproar over something that
there might not be a need for, she said.
The motion to rescind the earlier vote must be approved by four
out of the five council members for any reconsideration to take
place.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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