EV Digest 6254
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 'nutty' EV on the road part I (long)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: FlexiBar (Was: How much flex in battery interconnects)
by "ROBERT GOUDREAU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EVs in Russia
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Series Parallel Batteries
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Use 4x4 Transfer Case as 2-speed EV Transmission?
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) AltairNano Completes ORDER to Phoenix Motorcar
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV Milestones for 2006
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV Milestones for 2006
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: AltairNano Completes ORDER to Phoenix Motorcar
by "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Controllers
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Series-Parallel batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: 'nutty' EV on the road part I (long)
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Fw: 'nutty' EV - Part II - specs and where'd you get that nickname? (long)
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 'nutty' EV on the road part I (long)
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Controllers
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Fw: 'nutty' EV - Part II - specs and where'd you get that nickname?
(long)
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hey David!
Great write-up! I am almost certain I know what "The Electric Squirrel" was in
its former life, as I am giving electric re-birth to the same. Though, you are
way ahead of me. Funding and time is my hurdles. Anyway, looking forward to
part 2!
Would love to see it. Any chance "The Electric Squirrel" will be at the
Battery Beach Burnout?
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 1:50 PM
Subject: 'nutty' EV on the road part I (long)
It was born in the throes of drop hammers, hydroformers, and reaction injection
molding machines, and was assembled by robotic spot welders and overhead
cranes.
When it first emerged from the factory, it was one of the most advanced
vehicles
on the planet. It was unique, and was regarded as one of the best factory-made
racing and street vehicles in the world at the time. Loving owners
meticulously
cared for them, and went to extra lengths to maintain their unique features.
Alas, this was not enough, and after only 5 years, they were no longer produced.
In time, the newness faded, and ownership gradually passed to another class –
the enthusiasts. Also careful in maintenance, these owners knew no fear, and
undertook extensive modifications, keeping these vehicles in the forefront for
a
little longer, though they appeared less on the racetracks and more on the
streets.
But there were comparatively few enthusiasts. More and more, ownership passed
to ordinary people, who cared more about affordability and reliability than the
unique features these cars offered. Maintenance was hit-and-miss with these
owners. Some were careful and meticulous, some did not maintain their vehicles
at all, driving them to an early grave, but more often, these owners simply
forgot every now and then, or could not afford the proper maintenance at the
scheduled time. The vehicle’s numbers began to drop as one by one, component
failures and neglect drove them to the scrapyard. Like many other types of
cars
before them, they became a vanishing breed.
One in particular had seen a hard life. As it left it’s last owner, it’s
sensors were mostly plugged, electrical contacts were corroded, contaminants
were abundant in it’s fluids, deposits covered the engine’s vital moving parts,
virtually every part was literally worn out, and corrosion (from lack of
cleaning and an indefinite time left in a wooded area) was advancing
unmercifully. And so it was that this one came to rest, tired and literally
worn out, in a slightly less than reputable West Virginia used car lot. With a
presentable exterior and a condition misrepresented by the lot’s owner, it was
sure to move quick – and probably be a source of contention for the new owner.
Though presentable on the outside, corrosion and lack of cleaning had started
it’s ugly work. This one had literally been rode hard and put up wet, and was
one step away from the crusher.
By virtue of being listed to a large portion of the world through ebay, the car
did indeed sell quickly. With a few phone calls, the car was packed up on a
trailer and taken to Georgia, it’s tired springs creaking with every bump along
the way. The new owner seemed happy at first to receive the car, but then
strangely just drove it into the garage – a trip which the old vehicle barely
managed. When it’s battery was removed, it gratefully fell once again into a
long and very deep sleep. At first, it was a peaceful sleep, but then came the
dreams – just flashes, really, but memorable in a scary way - dreams of being
disassembled piece by piece – A/C, heater core, interior, most engine
components, cooling system, and even the elaborate network of insulation and
heat shields that the unique mid-engine layout required. Was this the end?
Was
the crusher next? There was even a dream that it was moved and scrubbed clean
while in this condition. Then the cutting began. The dreams turned to the
removal of the dozens of little flanges and brackets that held all the various
support systems for its internal combustion engine in place. Wiring for engine
sensors was cut away. The bare metal under the cut bracketry was ground
smooth,
then soothed by a coat of primer and finally by a waxy substance that
penetrated
into all the little cracks and crevices where corrosion would normally try to
start.
Then the dreams changed. Rather than glimpses of dismemberment, it dreamt of
new things being added, like a motor unlike any it had seen before being mated
to its transmission, and an odd green box being attached to the motor, attached
to a small radiator located where the air intake used to be. Then there was a
lot of re-wiring and a new, smaller battery was added, bringing life back to
the
12V systems, and waking the car from its slumber.
When the 12 volt system was finally reconnected, the old car awoke. It felt
new; simplified, like the way it had cried out to be from the beginning. It
was
still on the 'life support' of a 12V charger to maintain its new auxiliary
battery, but it truly felt alive again. It stayed there another long time.
The
interior was slowly replaced or rebuilt, with a few instrumentation changes.
Brake vacuum was now electric, with no more cross-car tubes and manifolds to
leak or break. The worn interior parts were removed, the stereo was replaced,
a
subwoofer filled the void the console tray had occupied, and a strange new gage
was placed where the crumbling old 'rally gages' had been. It began to feel
new, lighter, quicker, more energetic, more powerful,…and faster. But it still
felt something was missing. It’s fuel tank had been removed and it had
witnessed the tank being cut in two. What would supply this newly felt power?
Then the new owner installed a lot of structure. It seemed odd, since it’s
spaceframe provided complete structural integrity. Surely there was a reason
for it. Then came the large boxes…Here at last was the power source! One by
one they were installed on the new structure, filling every spare cubic inch.
Then came the wiring. Not the smallest gages possible, like it had originally
been equipped with, but huge cables, designed to carry hundreds of amps
continuously without heating up. Small components were attached to the power
boxes, and then the last installation – another green box, this one a bit
different, with an electrical plug fastened where the gas filler neck had been.
At last, the work wound down. With all construction complete, the controller
was powered on for the first time, and programmed. With the initial energizing
of the controller, the old car felt a sense of what kind of power was now at
its
disposal – more than double what it had possessed as it left the factory. With
a maximum factory power to weight ratio of less than 25 Watts/lb. with the top
of the line V6 engine, and now with a ratio of more than twice that (24.16 OEM
vs. 49.98 as an EV peak power to weight for you techies), the difference was
breathtaking.
The other green box was plugged into a wall outlet, and soon the small
components attached to the batteries began to blink, soon to be followed by a
blue light on the green box. When this happened, the new owner disconnected
the
cord, closed the “fuel” door, turned the key, and pressed the accelerator to
begin the car’s first drive as an EV…It was different, but definitely good.
After the first hot-rod was handily dispatched at the stop-light challenge on
the main drag, the car knew it would be quite content with its new state of
being. It barely heard the owner saying something about being sorry he
couldn’t
afford the more powerful controller…
The above piece is to introduce (and dramatize) the completion of my new EV,
"The Electric Squirrel." Details to follow in part II.
David Brandt
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.cse-distributors.co.uk/acatalog/Erico.html
On 12/29/06, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Danny Miller wrote:
> Say you have a short bar of several layers, say the layers lay
> horizontally and one is stacked over the other, and the ends are
> crimped... Better than a bar, for sure, but looks inferior to
> braid as well as less available.
I've made this style of bussbar myself for years. The most recent ones I
made are 4" x 0.875" x 0.025" thick copper sheets. The ends are cleaned,
fluxed, clamped together in a stack of 4 with vice grips, and dipped in
a solder pot to fuse the ends. I drilled a 5/16" hole in each end, and
slid a piece of heat shrink tubing over the center.
Each stack of 4 was bent by hand into an omega sign
_
_/ \_
and then bolted between two batteries with flag-type terminals. Copper
is very soft, so it takes over 1/8" of relative motion between the
batteries before the bar's natural springiness is overcome.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In reference to Roderick's POST:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/82969
A direct link to translate the www.ebiker.ru site is:
http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebiker.ru%2F&langpair=ru%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8
I assume Roderick has already suggested he put his EV(s) up on:
http://evalbum.com
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Dec 29, 2006, at 1:57 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Is there any benefit to having a battery pack split so that you can
either
conect the batteries at half voltage but double current for starts
and then
switching to full voltage and regular current for speed ? There must a
be a
simple reason not to do this but I can't quite see it !
Any modern high switching speed motor controller is effectively doing
this for you already. At a 50% duty cycle the motor current is 2x the
battery current and the motor voltage is 1/2 the pack voltage. A modern
controller is an efficient buck converter.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A CVT has a variable efficiency. At the low gear ratio, the efficiency is in
the low 80% range due to the small diameter of the driver gear. At the high
ratio where there is a 1:1 ratio the efficiency is over 90%.
These number are from the CVT "bible" written by Olav Aaen called the Clutch
Tuning Handbook.
When I built my EZEsport motorcycle, I did a lot of testing with CVTs ranging
in power levels from 10hp to 150hp.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/716
The CVT is viable for EV use. You trade off some low speed efficiency to
gain acceleration. On my motorcycle, I use a 15/45 final chain drive. Overall
gear ratio with the CVT gives me a 9:1 ratio at low gear and a 3:1 at high
gear. Good acceleration and hiway speed.
Belt wear would be the only maintenance issue. The CVT's used in the new
hybrids are using metal belts to overcome this maintenance issue.
EZEsport
Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have mentioned before a CVT would be a good setup for an electric car
> and there is an electric car in Sacramento that uses one.
> Have you looked into the Polaris CVT?
Please define "good"
A CVT has very little benifit in an EV and relatively poor efficiency
(even lower than a typical automatic transmission)
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A little pricy... but a beginning. Ten 35kwh Bat.Packs
As reported to me from Google News Feed:
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=198524
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1) "Who Killed the Electric Car?" premiers at Sundance.
2) Tesla Motors
3) Plug-In Hybrids . . . the momentum keeps going.
4) John Wayland and other EVs topping the Top 10 on the Dragtimes.com
site
5) Matt Graham breaking the 100 mph in the quarter mile
6) Bill Dube's achievement with the Killacycle and the A123 batteries
7) Myers Motors taking over the Sparrow
8) Spiking gas prices sparking an interest in EVs. Just how many
EVers and their EVs on this list have recently been profiled in the
media from all the publicity generated from WKTEC and high gas prices?
Chip Gribben
NEDRA, EVA/DC
On Dec 29, 2006, at 3:07 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: December 29, 2006 2:31:43 PM EST
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: EV Milestones for 2006
I thought it might be good if we could use the collective
consciousness of the EV List to come up with a list of the top ten
EV milestones for 2006. Also maybe a wish list for 2007. What do
you folks think? You must have some idea of what you think would be
on this list.
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about Dennis Berube and the Current Eliminator's outstanding results
racing against gasser dragsters? I don't remember the name of the
big-time event he earned the right to compete in, but doing so must
certainly have been an "EV first".
cheers,
Andrew
Chip Gribben wrote:
1) "Who Killed the Electric Car?" premiers at Sundance.
2) Tesla Motors
3) Plug-In Hybrids . . . the momentum keeps going.
4) John Wayland and other EVs topping the Top 10 on the Dragtimes.com
site
5) Matt Graham breaking the 100 mph in the quarter mile
6) Bill Dube's achievement with the Killacycle and the A123 batteries
7) Myers Motors taking over the Sparrow
8) Spiking gas prices sparking an interest in EVs. Just how many EVers
and their EVs on this list have recently been profiled in the media
from all the publicity generated from WKTEC and high gas prices?
Chip Gribben
NEDRA, EVA/DC
On Dec 29, 2006, at 3:07 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: December 29, 2006 2:31:43 PM EST
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: EV Milestones for 2006
I thought it might be good if we could use the collective
consciousness of the EV List to come up with a list of the top ten EV
milestones for 2006. Also maybe a wish list for 2007. What do you
folks think? You must have some idea of what you think would be on
this list.
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marketwire reports Altair Nanotechnologies Inc. (NASDAQ: ALTI) announced today
that it
shipped ten rapid charge, high power NanoSafeT battery packs to Phoenix
Motorcars, Inc. on
schedule.
Phoenix Motorcars is building an electric Sport Utility Truck (SUT).
As reported in http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/12/phoenix_ev_truc.php:
"Using
lithium ion batteries, Phoenix has developed two normal-looking, normal-sized
electric
vehicles that they plan on releasing sometime in 2007. Their Sport Utility
Truck (room for
five with a flatbed)... . Pheonix's 120 mile range vehicles will be available
soon, they
plan on producing at least 500 SUT's in 2007. I hate to point out the obvious
but, wow,
that's not very many. No word on the sticker price, but it's going to be pretty
darned
expensive."
Steve Love -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 5:37 PM
Subject: AltairNano Completes ORDER to Phoenix Motorcar
> A little pricy... but a beginning. Ten 35kwh Bat.Packs
> As reported to me from Google News Feed:
>
> http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=198524
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have the car. I know where to get the motor.
I am having second thoughts with the controller.
I really want to build my own. Am I two crazy to plan to get a cheap
48/72 volt controller just to get the car running and then try and build
my own controller? I know just enough about controllers to get in trouble,
but have access to a willing to help friend.
I know I will never be able to build zilla, I just want to build something
simple around a PIC and a 400 amp IGBT...
Anybody want to sell a controller?
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | "World domination, now"
http://e.nn.cl | Linus Torvalds
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I realise I only told you half the story, for the full picture I'm building
a Thyristor PWM controller, because I already have everything I need for
that, and was wondering if there was a direct benefit to switching to higher
current-lower voltage for smaller pulse durations, it seemed to stand out that
the smaller pulses woudl provide more torque because the current was higher. It
sounds almost the same as saying that a longer PWM pulse would do the same
thing....but does it ? If I'm looking for torque isn't it current that gets
things going ?
Lee Hart replied.......
<Roland is right that the contacts arc. Whether this causes a "lot" of
<maintenance depends on how often you switch them. Contactors built <for
<this service are designed to switch their full rated current and voltage
<for 100,000 cycles. This is many years for a typical EV that is driven
<perhaps 1 hour a day.
I'll watch for the contactor arcing if I need. I'll be working the PWM
directly so I could time the contactor changeover to occur in a non-pwm
period....actually lose a few pulses if I have to.
It's only got in my head that this might be something for me to try because
I tried variable PWM the other day and got some interesting results., for
example......
WIth a fixed 1kHz frequency I modulated the PWM widths. At lower settings
every third pulse was three times the length of the first and every second
pulse
was twice the size of the first.....the fourth pulse is the same as the
second. At about 1/3 throttle the thrid pulses are at 100% duty cycle and the
other pulses are minimal but climbing. At 2/3rds throttle the second and
fourth
pulses are almost 100% and finally at full throttle all pulses are 100% ,
though in practice 95% is the maximum limit and I intend to use a bupass
controller for 100%.
What I found by dong this was that there was a 300Hz full torque pulsing at
1/3 throttle which seemed to produce momre starting force in my motor , so I
want to establish the best way to get the most from my pulses and thought that
more current for the longer pulses would gie a good drive from zero speed.
It's probably not too differnet to a variable frequency PWM system with a few
odd harmonics thrown in I suppose, but it's fun to play, and good to make
mistakes before you actually build the car !
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
'Fraid not. The expense is just too much, especially since we just moved. It
should be ready by then, though (the springs I ordered should get here that
week - till then it rides kinda low;-).
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 3:28:41 PM
Subject: Re: 'nutty' EV on the road part I (long)
Hey David!
Great write-up! I am almost certain I know what "The Electric Squirrel" was in
its former life, as I am giving electric re-birth to the same. Though, you are
way ahead of me. Funding and time is my hurdles. Anyway, looking forward to
part 2!
Would love to see it. Any chance "The Electric Squirrel" will be at the
Battery Beach Burnout?
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 1:50 PM
Subject: 'nutty' EV on the road part I (long)
It was born in the throes of drop hammers, hydroformers, and reaction injection
molding machines, and was assembled by robotic spot welders and overhead
cranes.
When it first emerged from the factory, it was one of the most advanced
vehicles
on the planet. It was unique, and was regarded as one of the best factory-made
racing and street vehicles in the world at the time. Loving owners
meticulously
cared for them, and went to extra lengths to maintain their unique features.
Alas, this was not enough, and after only 5 years, they were no longer produced.
In time, the newness faded, and ownership gradually passed to another class –
the enthusiasts. Also careful in maintenance, these owners knew no fear, and
undertook extensive modifications, keeping these vehicles in the forefront for
a
little longer, though they appeared less on the racetracks and more on the
streets.
But there were comparatively few enthusiasts. More and more, ownership passed
to ordinary people, who cared more about affordability and reliability than the
unique features these cars offered. Maintenance was hit-and-miss with these
owners. Some were careful and meticulous, some did not maintain their vehicles
at all, driving them to an early grave, but more often, these owners simply
forgot every now and then, or could not afford the proper maintenance at the
scheduled time. The vehicle’s numbers began to drop as one by one, component
failures and neglect drove them to the scrapyard. Like many other types of
cars
before them, they became a vanishing breed.
One in particular had seen a hard life. As it left it’s last owner, it’s
sensors were mostly plugged, electrical contacts were corroded, contaminants
were abundant in it’s fluids, deposits covered the engine’s vital moving parts,
virtually every part was literally worn out, and corrosion (from lack of
cleaning and an indefinite time left in a wooded area) was advancing
unmercifully. And so it was that this one came to rest, tired and literally
worn out, in a slightly less than reputable West Virginia used car lot. With a
presentable exterior and a condition misrepresented by the lot’s owner, it was
sure to move quick – and probably be a source of contention for the new owner.
Though presentable on the outside, corrosion and lack of cleaning had started
it’s ugly work. This one had literally been rode hard and put up wet, and was
one step away from the crusher.
By virtue of being listed to a large portion of the world through ebay, the car
did indeed sell quickly. With a few phone calls, the car was packed up on a
trailer and taken to Georgia, it’s tired springs creaking with every bump along
the way. The new owner seemed happy at first to receive the car, but then
strangely just drove it into the garage – a trip which the old vehicle barely
managed. When it’s battery was removed, it gratefully fell once again into a
long and very deep sleep. At first, it was a peaceful sleep, but then came the
dreams – just flashes, really, but memorable in a scary way - dreams of being
disassembled piece by piece – A/C, heater core, interior, most engine
components, cooling system, and even the elaborate network of insulation and
heat shields that the unique mid-engine layout required. Was this the end?
Was
the crusher next? There was even a dream that it was moved and scrubbed clean
while in this condition. Then the cutting began. The dreams turned to the
removal of the dozens of little flanges and brackets that held all the various
support systems for its internal combustion engine in place. Wiring for engine
sensors was cut away. The bare metal under the cut bracketry was ground
smooth,
then soothed by a coat of primer and finally by a waxy substance that
penetrated
into all the little cracks and crevices where corrosion would normally try to
start.
Then the dreams changed. Rather than glimpses of dismemberment, it dreamt of
new things being added, like a motor unlike any it had seen before being mated
to its transmission, and an odd green box being attached to the motor, attached
to a small radiator located where the air intake used to be. Then there was a
lot of re-wiring and a new, smaller battery was added, bringing life back to
the
12V systems, and waking the car from its slumber.
When the 12 volt system was finally reconnected, the old car awoke. It felt
new; simplified, like the way it had cried out to be from the beginning. It
was
still on the 'life support' of a 12V charger to maintain its new auxiliary
battery, but it truly felt alive again. It stayed there another long time.
The
interior was slowly replaced or rebuilt, with a few instrumentation changes.
Brake vacuum was now electric, with no more cross-car tubes and manifolds to
leak or break. The worn interior parts were removed, the stereo was replaced,
a
subwoofer filled the void the console tray had occupied, and a strange new gage
was placed where the crumbling old 'rally gages' had been. It began to feel
new, lighter, quicker, more energetic, more powerful,…and faster. But it still
felt something was missing. It’s fuel tank had been removed and it had
witnessed the tank being cut in two. What would supply this newly felt power?
Then the new owner installed a lot of structure. It seemed odd, since it’s
spaceframe provided complete structural integrity. Surely there was a reason
for it. Then came the large boxes…Here at last was the power source! One by
one they were installed on the new structure, filling every spare cubic inch.
Then came the wiring. Not the smallest gages possible, like it had originally
been equipped with, but huge cables, designed to carry hundreds of amps
continuously without heating up. Small components were attached to the power
boxes, and then the last installation – another green box, this one a bit
different, with an electrical plug fastened where the gas filler neck had been.
At last, the work wound down. With all construction complete, the controller
was powered on for the first time, and programmed. With the initial energizing
of the controller, the old car felt a sense of what kind of power was now at
its
disposal – more than double what it had possessed as it left the factory. With
a maximum factory power to weight ratio of less than 25 Watts/lb. with the top
of the line V6 engine, and now with a ratio of more than twice that (24.16 OEM
vs. 49.98 as an EV peak power to weight for you techies), the difference was
breathtaking.
The other green box was plugged into a wall outlet, and soon the small
components attached to the batteries began to blink, soon to be followed by a
blue light on the green box. When this happened, the new owner disconnected
the
cord, closed the “fuel” door, turned the key, and pressed the accelerator to
begin the car’s first drive as an EV…It was different, but definitely good.
After the first hot-rod was handily dispatched at the stop-light challenge on
the main drag, the car knew it would be quite content with its new state of
being. It barely heard the owner saying something about being sorry he
couldn’t
afford the more powerful controller…
The above piece is to introduce (and dramatize) the completion of my new EV,
"The Electric Squirrel." Details to follow in part II.
David Brandt
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--- Begin Message ---
Didn't go through the first or second time. Guess I'll have to have a part III.
The 'electric squirrel' is based on a 1986 Pontiac Fiero GT. It uses 19
Power-Sonic PS121000 batteries with Rudman Regulators for a system voltage of
228V. A PFC-20 keeps the batteries happy and charges in a jiffy. A Z1K and a
WarP 9” keeps the driver happy and discharges in a jiffy! Acceleration is
brisk. As for range, I wanted to have my cake and eat it too. This baby
should have 35-40 miles real-world range at highway speeds (at 70+ MPH) with a
lot of high-speed stop and go mixed in for some variety. We'll see.
Batteries:
These Power-Sonic batteries are kind of like the concorde AGM’s discussed often
on the list. Their chemistry lends itself to long life, but reduces the
maximum current available, so they are not drag racing batteries (besides, at
100 AH and 70 lb. apiece, they are too heavy for that), but they are a step up
from floodies too. They are sort of in between. The max. current draw from
the batteries is set at 350A in the Zilla programming, to preserve them as long
as possible.
Instruments:
With all the stories on this list over the years about blown E-Meters, I swore
I’d never use one, but in order to be fair, I included the wretched thing in my
comparisons (I didn't say I wasn't still biased against it, just that I'd
include it;-). My requirements were that I wanted to be able to monitor amps,
volts, and Amp-Hours, both charging and discharging. That’s all. I didn’t
think that was too much to ask. I found three instruments to do this: An
E-meter (and all the crap that goes with it..EV filter, Prescaler, DC/DC, hot
wires in the cabin, and a lot of EMI), a Brusa Amp-hour Counter, and that
seemed to be it, but then I found one more option: Cloud Electric’s BATMAN II
(I got mine before the business was sold. I don't know if they are still
available, but I hope they are.). An E-Meter, with all the additional stuff
comes to about $500. This is the same as either of the other two with similar
features. That meant the choice could be made on grounds other th!
an price. The Brusa requires a special shunt, and the model that is
comparable in price has no case. It’s a bare circuit board plus LCD. You have
to supply the mounting. It actually costs about $75 extra for the case. Odd.
Probably a good deal for an OEM, though, since you could integrate it into your
dash. There appear to be several hookups that need to be made, but not as many
as the E-Meter, and the Brusa is pretty much self contained (even though it
doesn’t have a 'container'). The E-Meter is a standard 2” round case (included
at no extra charge, but don't tell xantrex or they'll start charging for it),
but is a technical nightmare for people desiring to have the simplicity that
they KNOW is possible with such a system. The E-Meter has several hookups and
extra “stuff.” It requires a lot of support equipment to keep it going, (kind
of like an ICE…Hmmm…). That’s sad. Instead of making a really nice
self-contained product, they threw a bunch of band-aids and w!
orkarounds at it to “make it work.” It’s almost like it was designed
by aerospace management. Lastly, the BATMAN II is self contained, includes a
case, has 6 wires to hook up (and isn't picky about what order they are
attached in), is powered by the traction pack, and continuously monitors and
displays amps, volts, amp hours, and watt hours, both positive (charging) and
negative (discharging). It even comes with an RS232 port. The models of the
others that I looked at cost extra to include RS232 communications. It doesn’t
have as much extra functionality as the others (such as a peukert compensated
bar graph), but it doesn't require paging through menus to correctly set it up,
either. About the only thing you need to add on this thing is a connection to
power the backlight. The only real disadvantage is that it is relatively
untried, at least as far as the list's experience goes. Well, that’s never
stopped me before. I went with the BATMAN II.
So far I have to say I’m impressed. There are a couple of downsides. 1) the
unit I got has a connection for backlight power but no light, and 2) the RS232
cord is permanently attached, not removable. I have talked to Bruce Sherry
(the manufacturer), and he says the current versions have an RJ jack for the
cord, but you still have to specify a light when you order. The cloud electric
website omitted that information. I’ve also noted that it displays a small
voltage and current at all times (less than 0.1V and half an amp when not
connected to the battery pack). Bruce says that most likely this is due to
dissimilar metal contact and thermocouple effects. He offered to recalibrate
it, but since it’s so difficult to uninstall, I declined. It is within
published tolerances, and at driving voltage and current levels, you don’t see
an appreciable error build up. Just reset the AH and WH after charging. I
also had to custom make a mount for it, but that wasn’t too big of a!
deal.
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nutty squirrel?
Hmm what kind of car was it to begin with?
On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 2:54 pm, David Brandt wrote:
It was born in the throes of drop hammers, hydroformers, and reaction
injection molding machines, and was assembled by robotic spot welders
and overhead cranes. When it first emerged from the factory, it was
one of the most advanced vehicles on the planet. It was unique, and
was regarded as one of the best factory-made racing and street vehicles
in the world at the time. Loving owners meticulously cared for them,
and went to extra lengths to maintain their unique features. Alas,
this was not enough, and after only 5 years, they were no longer
produced.
In time, the newness faded, and ownership gradually passed to another
class – the enthusiasts. Also careful in maintenance, these owners
knew no fear, and undertook extensive modifications, keeping these
vehicles in the forefront for a little longer, though they appeared
less on the racetracks and more on the streets.
But there were comparatively few enthusiasts. More and more, ownership
passed to ordinary people, who cared more about affordability and
reliability than the unique features these cars offered. Maintenance
was hit-and-miss with these owners. Some were careful and meticulous,
some did not maintain their vehicles at all, driving them to an early
grave, but more often, these owners simply forgot every now and then,
or could not afford the proper maintenance at the scheduled time. The
vehicle’s numbers began to drop as one by one, component failures and
neglect drove them to the scrapyard. Like many other types of cars
before them, they became a vanishing breed.
One in particular had seen a hard life. As it left it’s last owner,
it’s sensors were mostly plugged, electrical contacts were corroded,
contaminants were abundant in it’s fluids, deposits covered the
engine’s vital moving parts, virtually every part was literally worn
out, and corrosion (from lack of cleaning and an indefinite time left
in a wooded area) was advancing unmercifully. And so it was that this
one came to rest, tired and literally worn out, in a slightly less than
reputable West Virginia used car lot. With a presentable exterior and
a condition misrepresented by the lot’s owner, it was sure to move
quick – and probably be a source of contention for the new owner.
Though presentable on the outside, corrosion and lack of cleaning had
started it’s ugly work. This one had literally been rode hard and
put up wet, and was one step away from the crusher.
By virtue of being listed to a large portion of the world through ebay,
the car did indeed sell quickly. With a few phone calls, the car was
packed up on a trailer and taken to Georgia, it’s tired springs
creaking with every bump along the way. The new owner seemed happy at
first to receive the car, but then strangely just drove it into the
garage – a trip which the old vehicle barely managed. When it’s
battery was removed, it gratefully fell once again into a long and very
deep sleep. At first, it was a peaceful sleep, but then came the
dreams – just flashes, really, but memorable in a scary way - dreams
of being disassembled piece by piece – A/C, heater core, interior,
most engine components, cooling system, and even the elaborate network
of insulation and heat shields that the unique mid-engine layout
required. Was this the end? Was the crusher next? There was even a
dream that it was moved and scrubbed clean while in this condition.
Then the cutting began. The d!
reams turned to the removal of the dozens of little flanges and
brackets that held all the various support systems for its internal
combustion engine in place. Wiring for engine sensors was cut away.
The bare metal under the cut bracketry was ground smooth, then soothed
by a coat of primer and finally by a waxy substance that penetrated
into all the little cracks and crevices where corrosion would normally
try to start.
Then the dreams changed. Rather than glimpses of dismemberment, it
dreamt of new things being added, like a motor unlike any it had seen
before being mated to its transmission, and an odd green box being
attached to the motor, attached to a small radiator located where the
air intake used to be. Then there was a lot of re-wiring and a new,
smaller battery was added, bringing life back to the 12V systems, and
waking the car from its slumber.
When the 12 volt system was finally reconnected, the old car awoke. It
felt new; simplified, like the way it had cried out to be from the
beginning. It was still on the 'life support' of a 12V charger to
maintain its new auxiliary battery, but it truly felt alive again. It
stayed there another long time. The interior was slowly replaced or
rebuilt, with a few instrumentation changes. Brake vacuum was now
electric, with no more cross-car tubes and manifolds to leak or break.
The worn interior parts were removed, the stereo was replaced, a
subwoofer filled the void the console tray had occupied, and a strange
new gage was placed where the crumbling old 'rally gages' had been. It
began to feel new, lighter, quicker, more energetic, more
powerful,…and faster. But it still felt something was missing.
It’s fuel tank had been removed and it had witnessed the tank being
cut in two. What would supply this newly felt power?
Then the new owner installed a lot of structure. It seemed odd, since
it’s spaceframe provided complete structural integrity. Surely there
was a reason for it. Then came the large boxes…Here at last was the
power source! One by one they were installed on the new structure,
filling every spare cubic inch. Then came the wiring. Not the
smallest gages possible, like it had originally been equipped with, but
huge cables, designed to carry hundreds of amps continuously without
heating up. Small components were attached to the power boxes, and
then the last installation – another green box, this one a bit
different, with an electrical plug fastened where the gas filler neck
had been.
At last, the work wound down. With all construction complete, the
controller was powered on for the first time, and programmed. With the
initial energizing of the controller, the old car felt a sense of what
kind of power was now at its disposal – more than double what it had
possessed as it left the factory. With a maximum factory power to
weight ratio of less than 25 Watts/lb. with the top of the line V6
engine, and now with a ratio of more than twice that (24.16 OEM vs.
49.98 as an EV peak power to weight for you techies), the difference
was breathtaking.
The other green box was plugged into a wall outlet, and soon the small
components attached to the batteries began to blink, soon to be
followed by a blue light on the green box. When this happened, the new
owner disconnected the cord, closed the “fuel” door, turned the
key, and pressed the accelerator to begin the car’s first drive as an
EV…It was different, but definitely good.
After the first hot-rod was handily dispatched at the stop-light
challenge on the main drag, the car knew it would be quite content with
its new state of being. It barely heard the owner saying something
about being sorry he couldn’t afford the more powerful controller…
The above piece is to introduce (and dramatize) the completion of my
new EV, "The Electric Squirrel." Details to follow in part II.
David Brandt
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Crazy, just like myself. I'm building a 400 Amp IGBT based controller
as well. Info here www.electric-lemon.com
Any input would be most welcome.
-Peter
On 12/29/06, Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have the car. I know where to get the motor.
I am having second thoughts with the controller.
I really want to build my own. Am I two crazy to plan to get a cheap
48/72 volt controller just to get the car running and then try and build
my own controller? I know just enough about controllers to get in trouble,
but have access to a willing to help friend.
I know I will never be able to build zilla, I just want to build something
simple around a PIC and a 400 amp IGBT...
Anybody want to sell a controller?
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | "World domination, now"
http://e.nn.cl | Linus Torvalds
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good you made it electric.
Those feiro's had a habit of their gas engine cacthing fire in that mid
engine hatch!
Is your electric motor in the mid engine area?
On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 9:53 pm, David Brandt wrote:
Didn't go through the first or second time. Guess I'll have to have a
part III.
The 'electric squirrel' is based on a 1986 Pontiac Fiero GT. It uses
19 Power-Sonic PS121000 batteries with Rudman Regulators for a system
voltage of 228V. A PFC-20 keeps the batteries happy and charges in a
jiffy. A Z1K and a WarP 9” keeps the driver happy and discharges in
a jiffy! Acceleration is brisk. As for range, I wanted to have my
cake and eat it too. This baby should have 35-40 miles real-world
range at highway speeds (at 70+ MPH) with a lot of high-speed stop and
go mixed in for some variety. We'll see.
Batteries:
These Power-Sonic batteries are kind of like the concorde AGM’s
discussed often on the list. Their chemistry lends itself to long
life, but reduces the maximum current available, so they are not drag
racing batteries (besides, at 100 AH and 70 lb. apiece, they are too
heavy for that), but they are a step up from floodies too. They are
sort of in between. The max. current draw from the batteries is set at
350A in the Zilla programming, to preserve them as long as possible.
Instruments:
With all the stories on this list over the years about blown E-Meters,
I swore I’d never use one, but in order to be fair, I included the
wretched thing in my comparisons (I didn't say I wasn't still biased
against it, just that I'd include it;-). My requirements were that I
wanted to be able to monitor amps, volts, and Amp-Hours, both charging
and discharging. That’s all. I didn’t think that was too much to
ask. I found three instruments to do this: An E-meter (and all the
crap that goes with it..EV filter, Prescaler, DC/DC, hot wires in the
cabin, and a lot of EMI), a Brusa Amp-hour Counter, and that seemed to
be it, but then I found one more option: Cloud Electric’s BATMAN II
(I got mine before the business was sold. I don't know if they are
still available, but I hope they are.). An E-Meter, with all the
additional stuff comes to about $500. This is the same as either of
the other two with similar features. That meant the choice could be
made on grounds other th!
an price. The Brusa requires a special shunt, and the model that is
comparable in price has no case. It’s a bare circuit board plus
LCD. You have to supply the mounting. It actually costs about $75
extra for the case. Odd. Probably a good deal for an OEM, though,
since you could integrate it into your dash. There appear to be
several hookups that need to be made, but not as many as the E-Meter,
and the Brusa is pretty much self contained (even though it doesn’t
have a 'container'). The E-Meter is a standard 2” round case
(included at no extra charge, but don't tell xantrex or they'll start
charging for it), but is a technical nightmare for people desiring to
have the simplicity that they KNOW is possible with such a system. The
E-Meter has several hookups and extra “stuff.” It requires a lot
of support equipment to keep it going, (kind of like an
ICE…Hmmm…). That’s sad. Instead of making a really nice
self-contained product, they threw a bunch of band-aids and w!
orkarounds at it to “make it work.” It’s almost like it was
designed
by aerospace management. Lastly, the BATMAN II is self contained,
includes a case, has 6 wires to hook up (and isn't picky about what
order they are attached in), is powered by the traction pack, and
continuously monitors and displays amps, volts, amp hours, and watt
hours, both positive (charging) and negative (discharging). It even
comes with an RS232 port. The models of the others that I looked at
cost extra to include RS232 communications. It doesn’t have as much
extra functionality as the others (such as a peukert compensated bar
graph), but it doesn't require paging through menus to correctly set it
up, either. About the only thing you need to add on this thing is a
connection to power the backlight. The only real disadvantage is that
it is relatively untried, at least as far as the list's experience
goes. Well, that’s never stopped me before. I went with the BATMAN
II.
So far I have to say I’m impressed. There are a couple of
downsides. 1) the unit I got has a connection for backlight power but
no light, and 2) the RS232 cord is permanently attached, not
removable. I have talked to Bruce Sherry (the manufacturer), and he
says the current versions have an RJ jack for the cord, but you still
have to specify a light when you order. The cloud electric website
omitted that information. I’ve also noted that it displays a small
voltage and current at all times (less than 0.1V and half an amp when
not connected to the battery pack). Bruce says that most likely this
is due to dissimilar metal contact and thermocouple effects. He
offered to recalibrate it, but since it’s so difficult to uninstall,
I declined. It is within published tolerances, and at driving voltage
and current levels, you don’t see an appreciable error build up.
Just reset the AH and WH after charging. I also had to custom make a
mount for it, but that wasn’t too big of a!
deal.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
