EV Digest 6256
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Series-Parallel Batteries
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Considering Warp11 for 85 MR2 Direct Drive
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EV Mail Truck on e-bay at $100 and no reserve in Alabama
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Pulse Charging techniques
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) RE: Pulse Charger follow up
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Current Eliminator news
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Columbia/Lexington SC EV Club
by "John Charbonnet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV Milestones for 2006
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Joe Sixpack Geo: controlling motor with only 2 terminals
by "Darin - MetroMPG.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV Mail Truck on e-bay at $100 and no reserve in Alabama
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Joe Sixpack Geo: controlling motor with only 2 terminals
by "Darin - MetroMPG.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Gens in EV's, Re: Current Eliminator news
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) EV poster for New Year
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Joe Sixpack Geo: controlling motor with only 2 terminals
by "Darin - MetroMPG.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) regen breaking
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: regen breaking
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Fw: 'nutty' EV - Part II - specs and where'd you get that nickname?
(long)
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Gens in EV's, Re: Current Eliminator news
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Current Eliminator news
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Current Eliminator news
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) RE: regen breaking
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Series-Parallel Batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, as long as it's not really slow (i.e. sub audio) the motor
doesn't really care much about the switching frequency. THis is usually
determined by the controllers components.
Most modern controllers shoot for very high frequencies, i.e. over 15 khz,
but that is for ergonomic reasons.
The motor will vibrate at the applied frequency, sort of like a large
speaker. If the frquency is low enough you can here it. THis is the
infamous "whine" or "whistle" that some folks associate with older EV
designs.
Some folks actually make use of this.
I have a couple of electric RC helicopters. The brushless motor
controllers on these use the motors as a speaker for playing beeps and
tunes to tell you certain status information.
My truck uses an older GE controller that switches in the audio range and
varies the frequency to maximize efficiency and torque.
It varies switching frequency depending on duty cycle and output current.
> Paul G responded with......
>
> On Dec 29, 2006, at 1:57 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/post?postID=3KJK9zb8XHc0zdnh8EEuPxw1YGJoyyUYj-ecdSYK-kHaIBb7kP3_O2udGQ9NO
> -tzQKfdepUe) wrote:
>
>> Is there any benefit to having a battery pack split so that you can
>> either
>> conect the batteries at half voltage but double current for starts
>> and then
>> switching to full voltage and regular current for speed ? There must a
>> be a
>> simple reason not to do this but I can't quite see it !
>
> Any modern high switching speed motor controller is effectively doing
> this for you already. At a 50% duty cycle the motor current is 2x the
> battery current and the motor voltage is 1/2 the pack voltage. A modern
> controller is an efficient buck converter.
>
> Paul "neon" G.
>
>>>>> End of QUote >>>>>>>
>
> That's interesting Paul, where would I start to work out the best
> frequency
> for switching though. I have slow Thyristors (100uS turnoff and turn on
> time).....DO I need to go into root-pi LC and so on ? I don't enough
> about my
> motor for that at this moment, but I could try optimising frequency on
> the run
> once it's all in the vehicle.
>
> Chris
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you are over estimating some weights here. Of course it all
depends on your chosen transaxle, but an older porsche 911/914 transaxle
only weighs about 70 lbs.
ALso torque is pretty much directly related to current, not voltage.
Doubling the voltage allows you to force more current into the motor which
is where you get more torque. If you are limiting yourself to 500 amps of
current, then your torque will remain the same regardless of voltage.
In this case the only thing the higher voltage allows you, is to continue
to supply the same current at higher RPMs before BEMF startts to reduce
the current draw.
And your BIGGEST mistaken assumption. If you do go with a single
reduction ratio, you need a BIGGER controller not a cheaper one.
Remember torque is related to CURRENT. To get the high starting torque
and hill climbing torque, you need a high current controller.
> In general, I'm assuming a few things here:
>
> #1, Weight difference is only a minor increase overall of less than 50 lbs
> or so given that the differential from the transaxle (guessing -150lbs
> there) will need a suitable rear drive style replacement, reducing that
> weight reduction by about half. Plus an 11" motor simply weighs 80 lbs
> more
> than the 9" I would use with a transaxle, making it probably pretty close
> to
> a wash.
>
> #2, Torque nearly doubles with voltage, so a 144V pack should provide
> nearly
> 300 lb-ft output from the 11" motor while keeping it under 500 amps
> maximum
> draw. Direct driven through a 4.11:1 rear end, that's roughly 1200 lb-ft
> to
> the axles. Working that backwards through the first gear ratio of the
> outgoing transmission of 13.66:1 overall, that should give me performance
> off the line equivalent to having about 88 lb-ft of input vs. the stock
> 105
> lb-ft. Considering that it's instantaneous, it should feel at least as
> strong as stock and have plenty of hill climbing power for all but the
> steepest inclines. (But for autocross and my short flat commute, it's
> unlikely to see any hill duty.)
>
> I'm assuming that for commuting, I'd rarely need to exceed even 100-150
> amps
> for reasonable acceleration with no highway travel.
>
> #3, My cost difference is about $1000 more, assuming salvage parts for the
> rear end can be found at a reasonable price, and I can defer some expense
> of
> a transmission adapter by using the Turbo 400 yoke supplied by EV Parts.
> I'm also assuming that I can get by with a less robust controller like the
> Curtis 1231c (so maybe just a 120V pack), knocking some of the expense off
> of what it would cost to get similar direct drive performance out of a
> smaller motor.
>
>
> The goal of this project is to have:
>
> - Stock-like acceleration
> - 20-30 mile maximum working range
> - Under 500 lb weight penalty vs. stock (total curb weight under 3000 lbs
> post conversion)
> - Highway speed capability up to 75 mph or so
>
> I'm willing to compromise range somewhat in order to meet the other
> conditions. From what I've read here and elsewhere, these seem reasonable
> targets to shoot for.
>
> So can anyone punch any serious holes in my assumptions and expectations?
>
>
> - Kip
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
item # 120069890163
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden Writes.....
>>>> quote>>>>>>>>>>>>
On 29 Dec 2006 at 9:48, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/post?postID=qaaUa7aVPGf6-Uc0UiXjLBf2WPRrscffK_lQ7nC3Qi_2ZlrhoEgZn7BL54ErAkknCz
qR005lgovFWg) wrote:
> not the kHz pulsing that shakes crystals from the plates ...
I would say - at best - "ALLEGEDLY shakes crystals [of lead sulfate] from
the plates." IMO, this is one of the many claims of "desulfator"
manufacturers that are not sufficienctly supported by evidence.
> On -period is adjustable from 0.2 to 5 seconds, off period is adjustable
from
> 0.5 to 10 seconds....or thereabouts.
What is the purpose of these pulses? This sounds a lot like what simple
cycle-dropping charge controllers have been doing - with straightforward
analog circuitry - for many decades. Their objective is to provide more or
less constant [average!] voltage for the final 20% of the charge, by acting
as a simple voltage regulator.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
>>>>> End of Quoted material >>>>>>>>
Hello David, yes it's merely like cycle dropping.
I asked a question here about if it would work the same as reducing the
average voltage for top off charging, and although I got no replies I'll take
your response as containing the information I was looking for.
The reason I'm using it is because I only have a 40 Amp charger and unless I
buy a variac i can't adjust anythinge about it.
Interestingly , since making this I read som information about how Current
interupt, CI, charging worked to increase the cycle life of Optima batteries.
The only difference for me is that I can't lower the current.
BTW Fair comment about this being nothing new and analogue design has been
working in this application for years, but I'm sitting at my bench, I get an
idea, and within minutes have connected a single device
into a circuit via a few lines of code...it works for me, and I'm aware
there are a lot that you are better off doing with analogue.
Cordially
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > On -period is adjustable from 0.2 to 5 seconds, off period is
> adjustable from
> > 0.5 to 10 seconds....or thereabouts.
>
> What is the purpose of these pulses? This sounds a lot like what simple
cycle-dropping charge controllers have been doing - with straightforward
analog circuitry - for many decades. Their objective is to provide more or
less constant [average!] voltage for the final 20% of the charge, by acting
as a simple voltage regulator.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
Exactly.
Getting to what Chris just said about CI (charge interruption)...
According to this NREL report on charging algorithms, they showed a 3x life
improvement in using charge interruption (aka cycle dropping(?) charging
(CC/CI) and zero delta-voltage (ZDV) charge termination vs standard CC/CV:
"Charging Algorithms for Increasing Lead Acid Battery Cycle
Life for Electric Vehicles"
http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/energystorage/pdfs/evs_17paper.pdf
Test subjects were Optima YTs...
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Same questions we asked the other dozen times this plan came up:
What's the goals here? A genny is always far worse emissions than any
modern car engine. Calculations show that with cycle efficiency being
what it is, the ultimate mpg can't be much better than the original
engine and generally calculates out to a substantial bit worse.
Is that one of the Honda 4-stroke inverter generators, the EU2000i?
Those are the best gennies out there, cleaner, quieter, more effiicent
than a 2-stroke for sure, but still not efficient enough to have
benefits over the original engine. Also a 2KW genny would need a pretty
high ratio of generator charging time to actual road time.
Another note, unless you weld on a new exhaust system, putting a genny
under the hood is going to be a hazard to the occupants as far as
exhaust gas is concerned.
Danny
At 08:20 AM 12/30/2006, you wrote:
I will start racing the CE again on jan.1 07 at speedworld in Witman
Az.Its a
gambler race that should have a good payoff.
I will again be
racing in
the super pro class all year with the CE dragster,both for the ADRA
and for
the NHRA Summit series.The ADRA series starts jan.6th at speedworld.
The CE ran over 650
qt.mile
passes in 06.Total winings against the super pro gassers $3700.00 for
the year!
I am picking up my S10 truck today up in prescot az.The full
cage is
now completed as is the battery and control containment.Nhra and
Nedra rules
will put this s10 in the pro street catorgy.It will be a daily driver
here in
phoenix.Some of the features,a 2khv zilla,a 13 inch ge motor direct
drive into a
9 inch ford rear with air lockup and 40 spline axel..Air front
suspension and
ladder bar rear.The truck will also carry the pfc20 charger,a dc to
dc step
up to 13.8 volt sli.,and 2 12volt chargers 1 for the reverse and 1
for the
sli.These are also multi input chargers.There is a honda 2000 watt
emergency
genset mounted in the underhood compartment.Manual steering and
manual brakes.I
will be building the 13 inch ge in january while the truck will be in
the paint
shop.The truck will use a 9inch dot slick in the rear.It should be on
the road
in april 07.Advance plans include a larger ge motor that I will build
in the
summer of 07. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gentlemen:
If any of you live in the Columbia/Lexington SC area and would be interested in
forming a new EV club, please reply to this msg. Thanks.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep, we definitely need to add Dennis' accomplishments. He's been out
there in force this past year making lots of money racing and getting
lots of attention as well.
And we can't forget Shawn and Rich's performance on Monster Garage
this past year. I think that was in 2006.
Since many of the accomplishments are racing related and Roderick has
mentioned that NEDRA is celebrating it's 10 Anniversary in 2007 maybe
we'll do something on the website listing the Top 10 NEDRA
Achievements of 2006.
Speaking of 2007. Plans are in the works for more racing.
Friday evening, January 26 is the NEDRA Battery Beach Burnout at
Moroso Motorsports Park in West Palm Beach, followed by other Battery
Beach Burnout events on Saturday and Sunday organized by the Florida
EAA.
June 3 is the NEDRA Power of DC in Hagerstown Maryland
Plans are underway for a possible event in Las Vegas and the NEDRA
Nationals on the West Coast.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
On Dec 29, 2006, at 10:26 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: December 29, 2006 6:03:48 PM EST
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV Milestones for 2006
How about Dennis Berube and the Current Eliminator's outstanding
results racing against gasser dragsters? I don't remember the name
of the big-time event he earned the right to compete in, but doing
so must certainly have been an "EV first".
cheers,
Andrew
Chip Gribben wrote:
1) "Who Killed the Electric Car?" premiers at Sundance.
2) Tesla Motors
3) Plug-In Hybrids . . . the momentum keeps going.
4) John Wayland and other EVs topping the Top 10 on the
Dragtimes.com site
5) Matt Graham breaking the 100 mph in the quarter mile
6) Bill Dube's achievement with the Killacycle and the A123 batteries
7) Myers Motors taking over the Sparrow
8) Spiking gas prices sparking an interest in EVs. Just how many
EVers and their EVs on this list have recently been profiled in
the media from all the publicity generated from WKTEC and high gas
prices?
Chip Gribben
NEDRA, EVA/DC
On Dec 29, 2006, at 3:07 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: December 29, 2006 2:31:43 PM EST
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: EV Milestones for 2006
I thought it might be good if we could use the collective
consciousness of the EV List to come up with a list of the top
ten EV milestones for 2006. Also maybe a wish list for 2007. What
do you folks think? You must have some idea of what you think
would be on this list.
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all -
2 controller questions:
1) Am I going to have problems controlling my series motor with its
(only) 2 external terminals?
(Motor details & pics:)
http://metrompg.com/offsite/baker-pump-motor-detail.html
Our EV-1 controller from the forklift obviously has connections for both
field and armature. Can we just ignore its field connections since we
won't be using the controller functions for motor reverse, plug braking,
or field weakening (which I understand are all controlled through the
field circuit)? What I'm not sure is whether it'll drive the motor if
we just hook the armature circuit to the 2 motor terminals.
2) I got a used golf cart controller to test with, and I haven't been
able to make it work. I'm not sure if it's due to the 2 (only) terminal
issue, or whether maybe the controller is shot (I'm not sure how to test
it, aside from hooking it up per the instructions and activating the pot
- I tried this and it produced no response from either the series Otis
in the car or a PM motor on the bench).
The controller I got is a Curtis 1204-410 36/48v 225A (I believe it's a
PM controller): http://tinyurl.com/ycpokz
Thanks in advance for any wisdom imparted.
Darin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
IHMO: Not worth it even if they paid you.
Rust, rock or bullet hole(s), flat tires, tired wiring, missing or
broken parts, body damage, no title, etc. Odometer reads 869.2
miles. No VIN number stated.
-
Direct ebay URL:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=120069890163
[images
http://i11.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/7c/14/1832_12.JPG
http://i3.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/7c/14/1cf8_12.JPG
http://i6.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/7c/14/29cf_12.JPG
http://i11.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/7c/14/2e81_12.JPG
http://i15.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/7c/14/3244_12.JPG
http://i19.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/7c/14/392a_12.JPG
http://i4.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/7c/14/468b_12.JPG
http://i21.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/7c/14/4cc8_12.JPG
http://i20.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/7c/14/4fce_12.JPG
http://i6.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/7c/14/56fe_12.JPG
http://i12.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/7d/9c/d0f1_12.JPG
http://i7.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/7d/9c/dac1_12.JPG
http://i4.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/7d/9c/ddac_12.JPG
]
Vehicle Description
The Vehicle is being sold for parts or for collectors who want to
own a piece of history....This was one of the first commercial
Electric vans used by the Post Office several years ago and as far
as I can tell only about 300 were ever built...I'm not sure of the
correct year but I believe it is a 77-79 van.....with only 869
miles on the drive-line.......
LOCATED OUTSIDE OPELIKA, ALABAMA ABOUT 15 MILES WEST OF COLUMBUS,
GEORGIA AND (105 MILES SOUTH OF ATLANTA ON I-85) ABOUT 60 MILES
EAST OF MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA.
The vehicle was delivered to a salvage yard several yrs ago and was
suppose to run but the owner didn't want it anymore since it needed
batteries.......(17-6-volt batteries) The pics of the vehicle show
it AS-IS without any attempt to clean or hide anything, it's just
like what you see in the pics and everthing was kept as dry as
possible over the past few years I've owned it.
I was planning on using it as a donor vehicle to build an
expermental "Joe Cell" car and just got too busy to do anything
with it.....It's a rare opportuniity to buy a complete vehicle to
built an Electric Car or Truck....it presently has dents or body
parts missing with a dent in the drivers side door, windows broken,
minor rust, fiberglass interior......has 3-mag type wheels which
are flat so you will need a trailer to transport it home.....
This Van has been in my collecton for over 4 years, it is in good
rebuildable condition.........It still retains all of the factory
marking....Please use the pictures to reference your questions
since I don't have any specs or details about the make or model of
this van at the present time.
-
VEHICLE WILL BE SOLD WITH A BILL-OF-SALE/AFFIDAVIT ONLY SINCE I
DON'T HAVE A TITLE FOR THIS VEHICLE.
This van also has a gas tank installed.....I don't know why it has
one but I have seen one other van similiar to this one that had a
generator installed by the owner to charge the batteries......I did
locate the name tag on the motor (Otis Elevator..TYPE: 24-96, PART
#: 107971)..
The motor is free and not frozen, the alternator (Motorola) is free
and not frozen.......The body is ALL fiberglass, including the
interior with only the battery doors and some frames made of
metal.....(so it is very light vehicle wise).....ALL of the window
glass is FLAT safety glass that can be easily replaced with
Plexiglass or new safety glass.......The front bumper is very solid
and made of heavy steel and probably used to push big SUV's out of
the way..lol.....The WHEEL BASE is about 100 inches, the bench seat
is about 44-1/2 inches wide... The inside rear area is about 52 X
52 inch area.....The body is about 52 inches wide..The HEIGHT is
about 77 inches tall (est).
I'VE LISTED SOME MORE PICS AT THE FOLLOWING URL:
[
http://s130.photobucket.com/albums/p263/alan_smithy/ELEC%20VAN/
]
The previous owner still has the original battery charger to the
Van and It can be obtained for the Buyer for free.....Thanks!
AN AFFIDAVIT WILL BE PROVIDED FOR OUT-OF-STATE BUYERS IF NEEDED.
ALABAMA DOES TITLE 1975 AND LATER VEHICLES SO USUALLY ALL THAT IS
NEEDED IS THE AFFIDAVIT FOR OUT-OF-STATE BUYERS...SOLD AS-IS FOR
PARTS!!....
FOR INFORMATION CALL AL @ 256-426-0208 AFTER 3PM CENTRAL TIME
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Controller test suggested by list member in private e-mail:
1) Verify the voltage going to the controller is above
the cut off limit. See manual for cutoff limit.
Check. (Testing with a 36v nominal string; voltage reads 37.5)
2) Then place clip leads to output of controller and
make sure you can see the meter. Turn on controller
and see if the voltage goes up as you are stepping on
throttle.
- With the motor connected to the controller and the Key Switch Input
on, I see zero volts output, regardless of what I do with the throttle pot.
- With the motor cable removed and only power & the pot connected to the
controller, I read 23.4v output with the Key Switch Input off, and 37.2v
with it on; neither reading changes regardless of what I do with the pot.
3)Verify throttle by measuring ohms while stepping on
throttle.
Check. The pot seems within spec for resistance. 0 to about 4800 ohms.
Darin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Danny, Dennis and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Current Eliminator news
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 13:16:29 -0600
>Same questions we asked the other dozen times this plan
>came up:
>
>What's the goals here? A genny is always far worse
>emissions than any modern car engine. Calculations show
>that with cycle efficiency being what it is, the ultimate
>mpg can't be much better than the original engine and
>generally calculates out to a substantial bit worse.
I disagree with that. If steady state high speed, you
would be right but in stop and go even a little and the eff
of a series hybrid is very good when done right.
And the correct way is using a good engine like the
Robin/Subaru 5-11hp tuned for almost full power and only
running it like that.
Another one could be using a 4.5-6hp Deutz on
biodiesel as the 4.5 hp only weighs 60 or so lbs.
I'll use a shunt version of the ADC A89/D+D ES21 for
my gen saving all that electronics with good eff with a 9hp
Robin and I expect over 100mpg in the Freedom EV on long
trips.
But Dennis is probably just using it when a plug
isn't available or gets stuck. With my 100 mile range, I'l
rarely use mine.
The other poster is right about installing it
permanently as it makes things very difficult EPA/emissions
wise. Mine will be plug in and probably rarely even in it,
only for long trips. And I'll tune it with emissions
equipment for very low emissions.
>
>Is that one of the Honda 4-stroke inverter generators, the
>EU2000i? Those are the best gennies out there, cleaner,
>quieter, more effiicent than a 2-stroke for sure, but
>still not efficient enough to have benefits over the
>original engine. Also a 2KW genny would need a pretty
>high ratio of generator charging time to actual road time.
The Honda isn't more eff as it is only at part
throttle when the engine slows down. If you only need say
700 watts it is but if you want the full amount, it's the
same as any other good generator except the Robin gens with
their more advanced, eff, lower polluting, SFC motor.
While what you say most of these cheap and not so
cheap gens are ineff, polluting is true, it doesn't have to
be if you chose carefully.
Jerry Dycus
>
>Another note, unless you weld on a new exhaust system,
>putting a genny under the hood is going to be a hazard to
>the occupants as far as exhaust gas is concerned.
>
>Danny
>
>> At 08:20 AM 12/30/2006, you wrote:
>>
>>> I will start racing the CE again on jan.1 07 at
>>> speedworld in Witman Az.Its a
>>> gambler race that should have a good payoff.
>>> I
>>> will again be racing in
>>> the super pro class all year with the CE dragster,both
>>> for the ADRA and for
>>> the NHRA Summit series.The ADRA series starts jan.6th at
>>>speedworld.
>>>
>>> The CE
>>> ran over 650 qt.mile
>>> passes in 06.Total winings against the super pro gassers
>>> $3700.00 for the year!
>>>
>>>
>>> I am picking up my S10 truck today up in prescot
>>> az.The full cage is
>>> now completed as is the battery and control
>>> containment.Nhra and Nedra rules
>>> will put this s10 in the pro street catorgy.It will be a
>>> daily driver here in
>>> phoenix.Some of the features,a 2khv zilla,a 13 inch ge
>>> motor direct drive into a
>>> 9 inch ford rear with air lockup and 40 spline axel..Air
>>> front suspension and
>>> ladder bar rear.The truck will also carry the pfc20
>>> charger,a dc to dc step
>>> up to 13.8 volt sli.,and 2 12volt chargers 1 for the
>>> reverse and 1 for the
>>> sli.These are also multi input chargers.There is a honda
>>> 2000 watt emergency
>>> genset mounted in the underhood compartment.Manual
>>> steering and manual brakes.I
>>> will be building the 13 inch ge in january while the
>>> truck will be in the paint
>>> shop.The truck will use a 9inch dot slick in the rear.It
>>> should be on the road
>>> in april 07.Advance plans include a larger ge motor that
>>> I will build in the
>>> summer of 07. Dennis Berube
>>
>>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
First of all a slightly early Happy New Year!
I made up a little staged poster for putting up in our city to
advertise the January BVS/BEVOB meet - but figured some of you may
like to use the top half to make your own EV resolution posters!
You can see the full poster at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/
aminorjourney/338831687/
If anyone wants to use this part: http://www.flickr.com/photos/
aminorjourney/338921198/ then please let me know and I'll send you a
high-quality version :)
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
3)Verify throttle by measuring ohms while stepping on
throttle.
Check. The pot seems within spec for resistance. 0 to about 4800 ohms.
Just thought to ask: does the pot have to be a certain style or size, or
should any 0-5k pot work? (The one I'm testing with is a small dial
pot, not the usual "PB-5" lever style that's usually hooked up to a
throttle cable).
The manual does say: "Any potbox that provides a nominal 0–5k ohm output
(controller output begins at 300 ohms, full output is 4400 ohms) will
work with the standard throttle input."
Darin
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--- Begin Message ---
does any one have some info on how much braking is done by regen breaking?
what is the percentage done by regen and what is the percentage done by regular
breaks [i.e. disk, drum]
check out my blog:
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- Begin Message ---
The regen in my truck is variable from zero too 100%. I can drive all
day without touching the brakes, and often do. Zero % may be helpful on
the freeway. Have yet to test that theory.
Mike
--- dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> does any one have some info on how much braking is done by regen
> breaking? what is the percentage done by regen and what is the
> percentage done by regular breaks [i.e. disk, drum]
>
>
> check out my blog:
>
> http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Yep. The fire thing is really not that big a deal. I always liked the idea of
two things that GM said can't work being fused together (Fiero and EV).
I've been trying to get an evalbum entry, but am having trouble uploading
photos. I'm also having trouble posting the rest of the specs and the story
behind the nickname.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 10:19:48 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: 'nutty' EV - Part II - specs and where'd you get that
nickname? (long)
Good you made it electric.
Those feiro's had a habit of their gas engine cacthing fire in that mid
engine hatch!
Is your electric motor in the mid engine area?
On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 9:53 pm, David Brandt wrote:
> Didn't go through the first or second time. Guess I'll have to have a
> part III.
>
> The 'electric squirrel' is based on a 1986 Pontiac Fiero GT. It uses
> 19 Power-Sonic PS121000 batteries with Rudman Regulators for a system
> voltage of 228V. A PFC-20 keeps the batteries happy and charges in a
> jiffy. A Z1K and a WarP 9” keeps the driver happy and discharges in
> a jiffy! Acceleration is brisk. As for range, I wanted to have my
> cake and eat it too. This baby should have 35-40 miles real-world
> range at highway speeds (at 70+ MPH) with a lot of high-speed stop and
> go mixed in for some variety. We'll see.
>
> Batteries:
> These Power-Sonic batteries are kind of like the concorde AGM’s
> discussed often on the list. Their chemistry lends itself to long
> life, but reduces the maximum current available, so they are not drag
> racing batteries (besides, at 100 AH and 70 lb. apiece, they are too
> heavy for that), but they are a step up from floodies too. They are
> sort of in between. The max. current draw from the batteries is set at
> 350A in the Zilla programming, to preserve them as long as possible.
>
> Instruments:
> With all the stories on this list over the years about blown E-Meters,
> I swore I’d never use one, but in order to be fair, I included the
> wretched thing in my comparisons (I didn't say I wasn't still biased
> against it, just that I'd include it;-). My requirements were that I
> wanted to be able to monitor amps, volts, and Amp-Hours, both charging
> and discharging. That’s all. I didn’t think that was too much to
> ask. I found three instruments to do this: An E-meter (and all the
> crap that goes with it..EV filter, Prescaler, DC/DC, hot wires in the
> cabin, and a lot of EMI), a Brusa Amp-hour Counter, and that seemed to
> be it, but then I found one more option: Cloud Electric’s BATMAN II
> (I got mine before the business was sold. I don't know if they are
> still available, but I hope they are.). An E-Meter, with all the
> additional stuff comes to about $500. This is the same as either of
> the other two with similar features. That meant the choice could be
> made on grounds other th!
> an price. The Brusa requires a special shunt, and the model that is
> comparable in price has no case. It’s a bare circuit board plus
> LCD. You have to supply the mounting. It actually costs about $75
> extra for the case. Odd. Probably a good deal for an OEM, though,
> since you could integrate it into your dash. There appear to be
> several hookups that need to be made, but not as many as the E-Meter,
> and the Brusa is pretty much self contained (even though it doesn’t
> have a 'container'). The E-Meter is a standard 2” round case
> (included at no extra charge, but don't tell xantrex or they'll start
> charging for it), but is a technical nightmare for people desiring to
> have the simplicity that they KNOW is possible with such a system. The
> E-Meter has several hookups and extra “stuff.” It requires a lot
> of support equipment to keep it going, (kind of like an
> ICE…Hmmm…). That’s sad. Instead of making a really nice
> self-contained product, they threw a bunch of band-aids and w!
> orkarounds at it to “make it work.” It’s almost like it was
> designed
> by aerospace management. Lastly, the BATMAN II is self contained,
> includes a case, has 6 wires to hook up (and isn't picky about what
> order they are attached in), is powered by the traction pack, and
> continuously monitors and displays amps, volts, amp hours, and watt
> hours, both positive (charging) and negative (discharging). It even
> comes with an RS232 port. The models of the others that I looked at
> cost extra to include RS232 communications. It doesn’t have as much
> extra functionality as the others (such as a peukert compensated bar
> graph), but it doesn't require paging through menus to correctly set it
> up, either. About the only thing you need to add on this thing is a
> connection to power the backlight. The only real disadvantage is that
> it is relatively untried, at least as far as the list's experience
> goes. Well, that’s never stopped me before. I went with the BATMAN
> II.
>
> So far I have to say I’m impressed. There are a couple of
> downsides. 1) the unit I got has a connection for backlight power but
> no light, and 2) the RS232 cord is permanently attached, not
> removable. I have talked to Bruce Sherry (the manufacturer), and he
> says the current versions have an RJ jack for the cord, but you still
> have to specify a light when you order. The cloud electric website
> omitted that information. I’ve also noted that it displays a small
> voltage and current at all times (less than 0.1V and half an amp when
> not connected to the battery pack). Bruce says that most likely this
> is due to dissimilar metal contact and thermocouple effects. He
> offered to recalibrate it, but since it’s so difficult to uninstall,
> I declined. It is within published tolerances, and at driving voltage
> and current levels, you don’t see an appreciable error build up.
> Just reset the AH and WH after charging. I also had to custom make a
> mount for it, but that wasn’t too big of a!
> deal.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to my rough calcs with a Robin RGV12100, you'd need to use no
more than about 0.055KHW/mi to get this sort of mpg.
I see the Freedom EV is a tadpole car and somewhat closer to a
motorcycle. I'm looking at
http://eiclub.students.mtu.edu/presentations/freedom_ev.pdf and it shows
a consumption of 0.120 KWh/mi. That would place fuel consumption at
around 46 mpg. This is of course a good mpg for a sedan, but for a
super-small minicar I'd consider that somewhat poor.
What did you base your calcs on? I just pulled the specs on a 10kw
continuous output Robin generator, 11.6 ga capacity, 8.2 hrs runtime on
a tank, and 80% efficiency due to controller, any battery cycling, and
motor losses.
Danny
jerryd wrote:
I'll use a shunt version of the ADC A89/D+D ES21 for
my gen saving all that electronics with good eff with a 9hp
Robin and I expect over 100mpg in the Freedom EV on long
trips.
But Dennis is probably just using it when a plug
isn't available or gets stuck. With my 100 mile range, I'l
rarely use mine.
The other poster is right about installing it
permanently as it makes things very difficult EPA/emissions
wise. Mine will be plug in and probably rarely even in it,
only for long trips. And I'll tune it with emissions
equipment for very low emissions.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 12/30/2006 10:25:13 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Subj: Re:Current Eliminator news
> Date:12/30/2006 10:25:13 AM Pacific Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> Dennis,
>
> Make sure that the genset (and its fuel tank) can be easily
> and completely removed. You need to do this for two reasons:
> **Its an eu2000 that can easily be removed in about 30 seconds.
> 1) When you register the car, it can't be in place or it will be
> classified as a gasoline-powered car that will have to pass
> emissions. (The genset has no hope of doing this.)
>
> 2) The NEDRA rules require that there be no fuel tank and no engine.
> Also, hybrids aren't allowed.
> **Hopefully having a bracket that holds the genset will not violate nedra
> rules
> I know that they are difficult to find, but a small diesel
> genset might be a better choice if you want to maintain the "green"
> theme of the vehicle. You can run it on biodiesel.
> **The genset will really be just for an emergency!Using this same generator
> at the et finals 1.75 gallons ran quitely for at least 10 hours.
> Just a suggestion,
> * Thanks Dennis
> Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 12/30/2006 11:18:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> ubj: Re: Current Eliminator news
> Date:12/30/2006 11:18:59 AM Pacific Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> Same questions we asked the other dozen times this plan came up:
>
> What's the goals here? A genny is always far worse emissions than any
> modern car engine. Calculations show that with cycle efficiency being
> what it is, the ultimate mpg can't be much better than the original
> engine and generally calculates out to a substantial bit worse.
>
> Is that one of the Honda 4-stroke inverter generators, the EU2000i?
> Those are the best gennies out there, cleaner, quieter, more effiicent
> than a 2-stroke for sure, but still not efficient enough to have
> benefits over the original engine. Also a 2KW genny would need a pretty
> high ratio of generator charging time to actual road time.
>
> Another note, unless you weld on a new exhaust system, putting a genny
> under the hood is going to be a hazard to the occupants as far as
> exhaust gas is concerned.
>
> Danny
***Again the EU2000i is just for an emergency.The truck should have a 35 mile
range more than I need around this town.The cage was constructed in primarly
a header shop so the exaust issue has already been adressed.Thanks Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
THere is no need to set 0% regen if you have good control
over your right foot.
I know that many US behemoths invite on/off type acceleration
but with a trained right foot it is easy to keep my truck
rolling at (almost) no current, you just need to find the
right spot by listening to the gearbox noise or having a
feel for acceleration/deceleration, or have a meter that shows it.
This way I can drive on freeway and in city without
reprogramming for a different braking profile.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 4:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: regen breaking
The regen in my truck is variable from zero too 100%. I can drive all
day without touching the brakes, and often do. Zero % may be helpful on
the freeway. Have yet to test that theory.
Mike
--- dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> does any one have some info on how much braking is done by regen
> breaking? what is the percentage done by regen and what is the
> percentage done by regular breaks [i.e. disk, drum]
>
>
> check out my blog:
>
> http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul G responded...
Any modern high switching speed motor controller is effectively
doing this for you already. At a 50% duty cycle the motor current
is 2x the battery current and the motor voltage is 1/2 the pack
voltage. A modern controller is an efficient buck converter.
True enough. A buck converter can be 98% efficient when cutting the
voltage in half and doubling the current. But switching the batteries
from series to parallel is 100% efficient. It can still gain you a
couple percent efficiency, if that's important.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Where would I start to work out the best frequency for switching?
The "best" frequency depends on the application. People favor high
frequencies (>15 KHz) to reduce acoustic noise; but this lowers
efficiency. On the other hand, too low a frequency causes high peak
currents and/or requires bigger inductors and capacitors, again causing
a loss of efficiency. You almost have to build a system and run it at
different frequencies to see where "best" is.
I have slow thyristors (100uS turn-off and turn-on time)...
SCRs generally turn on fast (1 uS), but turn off relatively slow (100 uS).
Do I need to go into root-pi LC and so on?
SCR controllers usually add inductors external to the motor, to aid
operation at low frequencies. They also aid in "commutating" the SCRs
(getting them to switch off).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
