EV Digest 6277
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Need a little diagnosis help...
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) DOP 600 murdered
by "Jerald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Brake motor current switch (was: Unsafe Controllers - Question ...)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Come on, sign the Subie plug-in petition
by Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) What to do with old batteries?
by "Rodriguez, Jennifer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Brake motor current switch (was: Unsafe Controllers - Question ...)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Brake motor current switch (was: Unsafe Controllers - Question
...)
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) 4x4 Electric (was RE: Hydraulic drive)
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Brake motor current switch (was: Unsafe Controllers -
Question ...)
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Brake motor current switch (was: Unsafe Controllers -
Question ...)
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Brake motor current switch (was: Unsafe Controllers -
Question ...)
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: What to do with old batteries?
by Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Unsafe Controllers
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
14) Re: What to do with old batteries?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Hydraulic drive
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) DCP 600 murdered
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Big Red Panic Button
by "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: DOP 600 murdered
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Big Red Panic Button
by Jonathan Jekir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Big Red Panic Button
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Ugly box charger
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: DOP 600 murdered
by Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Hydraulic drive
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Big Red Panic Button
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Big Red Panic Button
by Jonathan Jekir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Hydraulic drive
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Big Red Panic Button
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Big Red Panic Button
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Brake motor current switch (was: Unsafe Controllers - Question
...)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the suggestions. Here is more data, more questions.
The throttle pot connections check out with smooth resistance between 0 and
a max of 7. No waver of VOM needle.
This morning I put the volt meter on that battery when I was driving. It
started, not fully charged a about 8.3V. Other batteries near were 8.6.
When driving, the volts went down to about 7.5. When I came to the point
when the car had no power, the voltage had not changed noticeably. Coming
back I tried it on another battery. It was around 8V under load.
After charging, I found I had only 1.135 SG in the low cell, with 1.275
around it. I have a couple of thoughts. Will equalizing possibly get this
cell back? Seemed like it didn't the last time I did that. What about
charging that battery separately - and what suggestions for charging at 8
volts?
Or, would is it likely this battery is finished, and can I bypass it and go
to 108 volts for now, and see if that changes my operating problem?
Thanks
Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I did a very bad thing.
I was putting a different type of battery pack into my truck and I reversed
the polarity.
My faithful DCP 600 died instantly. I know DCP is long gone.
The switch was off and the contactors were open so I am hoping that maybe
just the capacitors were fried. Does anyone know if that is possible? or
is the silicon gone too? If the smoke is gone I have heard that the Silicon
is soldered directly to the buss bars and is almost impossible to change in
the DCP.
Does anyone have a contact for the guy that made these?
Really banging my haed against the wall.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack Murray wrote:
> sounds good, but what happens if you are on a steep hill and
> you need to hold the brake pedal while you press the go pedal
> to get the car moving without rolling back into the car behind
> you?
Not generally a problem since you don't have the time lag/complication
of having to operate the clutch pedal as well to get rolling; just move
your foot from the brake to the throttle as you would in an automatic
tranny ICE.
When I am stopped at light on a hill in my EV, I prefer to set the
handbrake to hold my position rather than holding the brake pedal,
however, there are certainly other situations (brakestands, etc. ;^)
where one might intend for motor current to flow while the brake is
pressed.
I think that detecting current flow while the throttle is released is a
more sensible and reliable means of detecting an unwanted motor current
situation and preventing a runaway.
I like your idea of implementing this in a stand-alone supervisor that
can be sold to/used by users of any Curtis/other controller; an
everyperson's hairball? ;^>
A couple of other features that you might consider including in such a
device would be precharge control logic and rev limiting, both features
missing from the ubiquitous Curtis. Precharge control could be
implemented easily using one of many voltage supervisor ICs (I've got a
couple of little TO-92 package devices that seem suitable) to close the
main contactor only when the cap voltage reaches an appropriate level.
Rev limiting can be easily built around an LM2917 by following the
examples in the app notes. Or, you could use a micro of some sort and
do it all in SW. ;^>
A final feature that would be a good addition is the ability for this
supervisor to detect and prevent locked-rotor operation. That is, drop
out the contactor or take other action (idiot light, etc.) if motor loop
current is present for more than X time without motor rotation or with
motor speed below some minimum level.
> My plan is to have this on/off controller as a supervisor. It would
> monitor and do safety checks, and also report the data to the vehicle
> display on the dash, so its measuring battery current
> already.
It would need to monitor motor, rather than battery current for this
safety feature. Due to current multiplication, it is possible to have
an unintended high motor loop current without the battery current
appearing abnormal, and there are easily conceivable situations (heater
& DC/DC loads) where the battery current may be non-zero when the
throttle is released even though the motor current is zero (no fault).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As Joe has said, time to sign and sway an ICE corporation to do the right thing.
Bob
Joseph Lado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I heard that Subaru is working on a hybrid system in its early stages. Paul
Scott of Plug-In America has asked people to sign a petition to show Subaru
that a plug-in hybrid would be some thing that people would be willing to buy.
Can I ask you people to help? I want the list on the petition to go over 1000
names before the weekend. This kind of petition helps prove that there is
strong demand for EVs and EV like vehicles. Please help me by going to
http://www.petitiononline.com/subarupi/petition.html and signing the petition.
Also, so I can figure out which of the list serves and blog spots participates
the most, put in the comment section EVList. Thank you for all your help.
Currently the people on the Daily Kos are the strongest participants. Let's
show them that this list is stronger when it comes to EVs and plug-ins. Thank
you for all you can do. Sincerely, Joseph Lado
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have an EVT 4000e scooter with four B&B EB50 batteries in it (12v
50Ahr each). The hub motor is getting old and crusty (8000 miles on a
sealed, brushed motor) and harder to turn. The scooter plus myself
weighs about 400 lbs. My commute is about 12 miles each way, relatively
flat. Even with careful driving, my scooter just barely makes it to
work now, so I need new batteries. (A new motor would be nice, too, but
I'm going to try to get the advertised 10,000 miles out of this one, and
hope something better comes out by then.)
What kills me, is that if my commute were 5 miles, I'd still be golden.
I'd have tons of commutes still left in these batteries. I know that
the batteries aren't dead, just too dead for me. Is there anything
productive to do with these batteries? I especially wouldn't mind
selling them at a low price, to offset a little of the cost of new
batteries, but would anyone want to buy them? If not, is there
something else good to do with them, rather than just recycle them? I
think they still have some life in them, and hate to waste it.
Or... Are these batteries more dead than I think? Will they decline
rapidly from here, so that even if I had a 5 mile commute they still
wouldn't last as long as I imagine? Of course, they'll decline fast if
I keep trying to push them 12 miles, because they will get more fully
discharged. Unfortunately, I don't have a need to go just a few miles
very often, so I can't test out the 5-mile-commute theory without
wasting a lot of time.
Thanks for any suggestions,
Jenn
Yellow EVT 4000e
Santa Clara, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
sounds good, but what happens if you are on a steep hill and you need to
hold the brake pedal while you press the go pedal to get the car moving
without rolling back into the car behind you?
A brake-on-motor-off switch would not work for this situation.
On my three wheeler - no problem. Hold the vehicle with the two REAR brakes
- operated off the left hand grip. The right hand side, with the brake
light switch, operates the front brake. I ALWAYS use the front as it provides
the majority of the stopping force (true for cars and motorcycles)
Matt Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
BMW m/c-Golf Cart trike - 48 volts, 30mph on the flat, 35 mile range
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack wrote:
> sounds good, but what happens if you are on a steep hill and you need to
> hold the brake pedal while you press the go pedal to get the car moving
> without rolling back into the car behind you?
> A brake-on-motor-off switch would not work for this situation.
I am currently in the process to built a safety system. I bought an alarm
system type reed switch, but had to get it out of the plastic casing and
had to mount it across the power cable to get action. It now closes at
about 200A - depending on location one is able to adjust the appropriate
amperage for the reed switch to close. That should address the starting on
the hill type problem - unless of course one wants to start with burning
rubber effect - that would throw the safety - and save the rubber in the
process ;)
mm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Has anyone built a 4 wheel drive all electric?
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=215591&highlight=electri
c
Details are on a 4-wheeling BBS, with lots of chit-chat between (low
signal, high noise, but IMHO worth the read, skip through to the
pictures if you grew up watching MTV). This buggy did compete and do
pretty well under Mountain Dew sponsorship. For low-duration trials-type
competition, it worked really well.
A few direct picture links:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=107380&stc=1&;
d=1075862359
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=208509&stc=1&;
d=1128310896
Stats:
* Motor is a 96 to 144 volt DC motor with 28 hp at 0 rpm and 85 hp at
4000 rpm. Max rpm is 9000.
* Controller is a modified Curtis with minimum input stops and rev
limiter.
* Batteries are 3 Hawker pc 680's for the power steering and 12 hawker
PC-1200's for the motor (slightly modified).
* Power steering is a continuous duty 12 volt pump with some new rotor
with less drag and more power.
Theory: ability to run the batteries down to 8 volts per before noticing
a performance loss; batteries can be taken to zero about 400 times
before they are junk.
per Tony: "Normal offroad driving is about 4 1/2 hrs on a charge.
Recharging batteries is about 1 1/2 hours. Fully charged batteries start
at about 152 volts.... as you drive, you use up volts. At 3-4 hours your
voltage drops to about 90-100 volts. At about 96 volts and lower, I
started to feel a small drop in power but was able to continue
offroading until about 65 volts. That was the end of testing both times
but you could always drive it back to the truck with as few as 30
volts."
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The reed switch won't open with a modest motor current. All will work
fine starting on a hill.
If you think about it, you only need this circuit to cut out the
controller if the motor current is large enough that you can't stop
the car with the brakes. That is the beauty of the reed switch solution.
I told you it was really clever,
Bill Dube'
At 02:32 PM 1/5/2007, you wrote:
sounds good, but what happens if you are on a steep hill and you
need to hold the brake pedal while you press the go pedal to get the
car moving without rolling back into the car behind you?
A brake-on-motor-off switch would not work for this situation.
As I said before, I think a good way is to use the throttle-off
detector and cut power if the battery current doesn't fall.
My plan is to have this on/off controller as a supervisor. It would
monitor and do safety checks, and also report the data to the
vehicle display on the dash, so its measuring battery current
already. Though I'm not sure exactly what it does, it seems
similiar to what the Zilla hairball does, but this supervisor would
work independent of any particular motor controller.
Jack
Bill Dube wrote:
John Wayland figured out how to do this very cleverly several years ago.
As I recall John placed a magnetic reed switch right next to the
motor cable so that it would open when current was flowing to the
motor. He put this reed switch in parallel with a brake pedal
switch that would open when the pedal was pressed. This whole thing
was placed in series with the main contactor "seal in" circuit.
If there was a large current flowing to the motor, and you put your
foot on the brake, it would drop out the main contactor.
Quite clever, isn't it?
Bill D.
At 02:42 PM 1/4/2007, you wrote:
Wouldn't it be possible to build a circuit that:
Disables the contractor whenever the brake lights come on AND there is
current (or voltage) on the motor? Wouldn't that clearly indicate the
drivers desire to stop even though there seems to be power delivered to
the motor?
Somebody able to draw up a quick circuit?
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You want to get the kind that are normally closed and then open with
an applied magnetic field. (They make them.)
Bill Dube'
At 04:21 PM 1/5/2007, you wrote:
Jack wrote:
> sounds good, but what happens if you are on a steep hill and you need to
> hold the brake pedal while you press the go pedal to get the car moving
> without rolling back into the car behind you?
> A brake-on-motor-off switch would not work for this situation.
I am currently in the process to built a safety system. I bought an alarm
system type reed switch, but had to get it out of the plastic casing and
had to mount it across the power cable to get action. It now closes at
about 200A - depending on location one is able to adjust the appropriate
amperage for the reed switch to close. That should address the starting on
the hill type problem - unless of course one wants to start with burning
rubber effect - that would throw the safety - and save the rubber in the
process ;)
mm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Also, you can add an iron "C" around the cable to concentrate the
field on the reed switch.
Bill D.
At 04:21 PM 1/5/2007, you wrote:
Jack wrote:
> sounds good, but what happens if you are on a steep hill and you need to
> hold the brake pedal while you press the go pedal to get the car moving
> without rolling back into the car behind you?
> A brake-on-motor-off switch would not work for this situation.
I am currently in the process to built a safety system. I bought an alarm
system type reed switch, but had to get it out of the plastic casing and
had to mount it across the power cable to get action. It now closes at
about 200A - depending on location one is able to adjust the appropriate
amperage for the reed switch to close. That should address the starting on
the hill type problem - unless of course one wants to start with burning
rubber effect - that would throw the safety - and save the rubber in the
process ;)
mm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This probably won't apply to your batteries but is what I do with used
batteries. I live in a resort complex where the golf cart is king for local
getting around. I string used 6 volt golf cart batteries in series/par and
connect a Trace 2kw inverter and (2) 65 watt solar panels. This provides
standby power to me and my neighbors during power outages. To keep the
batteries from overcharging, I charge my Cushman EV by plugging the onboard
charger to the inverter. I only drive the Cushman about 25 miles a week so I
encourage my friends to plug their golf carts to the inverter.
Bob
"Rodriguez, Jennifer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have an EVT 4000e scooter with four B&B EB50 batteries in it (12v
50Ahr each). The hub motor is getting old and crusty (8000 miles on a
sealed, brushed motor) and harder to turn. The scooter plus myself
weighs about 400 lbs. My commute is about 12 miles each way, relatively
flat. Even with careful driving, my scooter just barely makes it to
work now, so I need new batteries. (A new motor would be nice, too, but
I'm going to try to get the advertised 10,000 miles out of this one, and
hope something better comes out by then.)
What kills me, is that if my commute were 5 miles, I'd still be golden.
I'd have tons of commutes still left in these batteries. I know that
the batteries aren't dead, just too dead for me. Is there anything
productive to do with these batteries? I especially wouldn't mind
selling them at a low price, to offset a little of the cost of new
batteries, but would anyone want to buy them? If not, is there
something else good to do with them, rather than just recycle them? I
think they still have some life in them, and hate to waste it.
Or... Are these batteries more dead than I think? Will they decline
rapidly from here, so that even if I had a 5 mile commute they still
wouldn't last as long as I imagine? Of course, they'll decline fast if
I keep trying to push them 12 miles, because they will get more fully
discharged. Unfortunately, I don't have a need to go just a few miles
very often, so I can't test out the 5-mile-commute theory without
wasting a lot of time.
Thanks for any suggestions,
Jenn
Yellow EVT 4000e
Santa Clara, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Roger Johnsonbaugh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>snip<
>
> By the way does anybody have a big red panic button on the dash?
>
> That's my two cents,
>
> Roger
Yep - not on the dash, though.
Its a knob linked to a cable that trips the main breaker.
And I have a Zilla.
I have had the throttle stick wide open on an ICE vehicle three times.
Once on a company car, once on a full size school bus and once on a camper.
My first reaction, maybe because I was a mechanic, was to reach down and pull
the peddle up.
Luckily it worked all three times. (Odds are it's a linkage problem)
You would think I would turn the key off.
Sometimes, you don't do what you think you'll do.
The incidents were spread pretty far apart - 1978, 1984 and 2004.
Dana
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a good possibility that where ever you buy the new batts at will
want your old ones in exchange. If not, they may charge a core charge
fee.
I doubt anyone is going to want to buy your old, tired batteries. If you
could find someone that did, they'd have to be a fool to pay more than a
couple bucks each (about what the core charge would be)
> I have an EVT 4000e scooter with four B&B EB50 batteries in it (12v
> 50Ahr each). The hub motor is getting old and crusty (8000 miles on a
> sealed, brushed motor) and harder to turn. The scooter plus myself
> weighs about 400 lbs. My commute is about 12 miles each way, relatively
> flat. Even with careful driving, my scooter just barely makes it to
> work now, so I need new batteries. (A new motor would be nice, too, but
> I'm going to try to get the advertised 10,000 miles out of this one, and
> hope something better comes out by then.)
>
> What kills me, is that if my commute were 5 miles, I'd still be golden.
> I'd have tons of commutes still left in these batteries. I know that
> the batteries aren't dead, just too dead for me. Is there anything
> productive to do with these batteries? I especially wouldn't mind
> selling them at a low price, to offset a little of the cost of new
> batteries, but would anyone want to buy them? If not, is there
> something else good to do with them, rather than just recycle them? I
> think they still have some life in them, and hate to waste it.
>
> Or... Are these batteries more dead than I think? Will they decline
> rapidly from here, so that even if I had a 5 mile commute they still
> wouldn't last as long as I imagine? Of course, they'll decline fast if
> I keep trying to push them 12 miles, because they will get more fully
> discharged. Unfortunately, I don't have a need to go just a few miles
> very often, so I can't test out the 5-mile-commute theory without
> wasting a lot of time.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions,
> Jenn
> Yellow EVT 4000e
> Santa Clara, CA
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> There was some press awhile back over Ford's "Hydraulic Hybrid".
> Instead of battery storage, it relied on pressurized tanks of hydraulic
> fluid. In fact since the energy storage comes from the compression of
> tank air above the fluid, it is more accurately termed a "Pneumatic
> Hybrid". As the fluid is used, it drains into a low pressure reservoir
> and will be pumped back into to the high pressure tank during
> regenerative braking or a slow recharge off the engine.
>
> I was surprised hydraulics could be applied that way, I assumed
> viscosity would make it terribly inefficient for any sort of high speed
> movement. I don't think its real world performance has been proven, but
> you can try to look up details on it anyways.
There was a college in Southern Oregon (Eugene?) that build one of these a
couple decades back. It performed pretty weel and got excellent gas
mileage.
I believe they used some kind of VW kit car for the basic vehicle, a small
gas engine and hydrualic pump, motor, resevoir, etc.
>
> Danny
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked
>> > I am wondering if anyone has developed a hydraulically driven EV yet ?
>> > There are many examples of wheel motors which already have mountings
>> > suitable for suspension. Two wheel motors and a big hydraulic pump on
>> > the front of your motor which could be mounted _anywhere_ in your
>> > vehicle would make an interesting installation I think
>>
>> Yes; they are common in industrial, mining, and other commercial
>> vehicles. For example, fork lifts use electric hydraulic pumps and
>> hydraulic motors.
>>
>> Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
>>
>>> You would lose a lot of efficiency by driving the pump with the
>>> electric
>>> motor.
>>
>>
>> It's less efficient than a gearbox (probably 80% vs. 95%). But, the
>> convenience, durability, and versatility often makes up for it.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter Senkowski (707.350.0156, of Myers Motors fame)
is your man. You will not want to, nor will you
likely be able to purchase a DCP 600. It will be a
Raptor 1200, for $2400. On the flip side, you can use
either the inductive throttle, or the potbox. He MAY
be able to do something about the power board on your
600, but I'd caution against this. The reliability of
the 1200A unit is apparently much better.
hope this helps (speaking from experience),
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> By the way does anybody have a big red panic button on the dash?
> Roger
Is there a safe way to run 140V DC to the dash? I vote no. A rod
to a breaker behind the firewall, perhaps?
I have purchased a breaker for my car, but I have yet to find a place
to put it where it can be reached by the driver as an emergency stop.
Every good spot seems to be occupied by batteries!
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's a long shot.
I think I have a DCP600 in the garage. The fellow I bought it from
said it was flakey. I've never tested it. Maybe we can repair yours
and/or swap out the good parts from mine, if there are any.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Jerald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I did a very bad thing.
>
> I was putting a different type of battery pack into my truck and I
reversed
> the polarity.
>
> My faithful DCP 600 died instantly. I know DCP is long gone.
> The switch was off and the contactors were open so I am hoping that
maybe
> just the capacitors were fried. Does anyone know if that is
possible? or
> is the silicon gone too? If the smoke is gone I have heard that the
Silicon
> is soldered directly to the buss bars and is almost impossible to
change in
> the DCP.
>
> Does anyone have a contact for the guy that made these?
>
> Really banging my haed against the wall.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Exactly. Place the breaker in the engine compartment with ON towards
the front and run some kind of cable to the dash. Attach a nice red
plug and you're set. The only problem with that approach is that if
you pull it, you need to get out and open the hood to reset it (not
necessarily a bad thing).
On 5-Jan-07, at 8:23 PM, Brian M. Sutin wrote:
By the way does anybody have a big red panic button on the dash?
Roger
Is there a safe way to run 140V DC to the dash? I vote no. A rod
to a breaker behind the firewall, perhaps?
I have purchased a breaker for my car, but I have yet to find a place
to put it where it can be reached by the driver as an emergency stop.
Every good spot seems to be occupied by batteries!
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You don't run 140V's to the dash. You run 12 volt
control line to a GFI breaker. When you hit the panic
button it trips the breaker.
--- "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > By the way does anybody have a big red panic
> button on the dash?
> > Roger
>
> Is there a safe way to run 140V DC to the dash? I
> vote no. A rod
> to a breaker behind the firewall, perhaps?
>
> I have purchased a breaker for my car, but I have
> yet to find a place
> to put it where it can be reached by the driver as
> an emergency stop.
> Every good spot seems to be occupied by batteries!
>
> --
> Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering
> and Optical Design
> Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711
> USA/(909) 621-3122
>
>
__________________________________________________
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I'm sorry I have to do this. I should have been able to find this by
searching. (I still suspect I could if I could find the right key
words)
I'm looking at the "ugly box" charger. This is the simple idea where
you put a large (or several smaller in parallel) motor run capacitors
in series with the AC line and then rectify the line after them. The
voltage is not controlled with this type of charger, but the current
is.
What I'm trying to figure out is how much uF of cap I need for a given
current. I'm in the U.S.A so its 60Hz. I'm looking at a case where the
peak of the AC line is slightly above the DC voltage required but would
like a way to understand the range better. I know the power factor is
bad but only want this for a couple of amps off a 20 amp branch
circuit.
Thanx for bailing me out,
Paul "neon" G.
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Sorry to hear you let the smoke out. If you want to save about $1000, and don't
mind rebuilt, these people have the best price over everyone on controllers.
http://www.logisystemscontrollers.com/index.html
Bob
Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Here's a long shot.
I think I have a DCP600 in the garage. The fellow I bought it from
said it was flakey. I've never tested it. Maybe we can repair yours
and/or swap out the good parts from mine, if there are any.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Jerald" wrote:
>
> I did a very bad thing.
>
> I was putting a different type of battery pack into my truck and I
reversed
> the polarity.
>
> My faithful DCP 600 died instantly. I know DCP is long gone.
> The switch was off and the contactors were open so I am hoping that
maybe
> just the capacitors were fried. Does anyone know if that is
possible? or
> is the silicon gone too? If the smoke is gone I have heard that the
Silicon
> is soldered directly to the buss bars and is almost impossible to
change in
> the DCP.
>
> Does anyone have a contact for the guy that made these?
>
> Really banging my haed against the wall.
>
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There are many different hydralic fluids and some or most have VERY low
viscosity for efficiency.
The one thing almost all hydralic fluids have is incompressability and
low foaming which may be what you are really thinking of.
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 5:23 pm, Chris wrote:
Ah yes viscosity, you could always run it slowly and gear it up to
take benefit from the huge ammounts of torque which hydraulic motors
can create, maybe.
Chris
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There was some press awhile back over Ford's "Hydraulic Hybrid".
Instead of battery storage, it relied on pressurized tanks of
hydraulic
fluid. In fact since the energy storage comes from the compression
of
tank air above the fluid, it is more accurately termed a "Pneumatic
Hybrid". As the fluid is used, it drains into a low pressure
reservoir
and will be pumped back into to the high pressure tank during
regenerative braking or a slow recharge off the engine.
I was surprised hydraulics could be applied that way, I assumed
viscosity would make it terribly inefficient for any sort of high
speed
movement. I don't think its real world performance has been
proven, but
you can try to look up details on it anyways.
Danny
Lee Hart wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked
> > I am wondering if anyone has developed a hydraulically driven
EV yet ?
> > There are many examples of wheel motors which already have
mountings
> > suitable for suspension. Two wheel motors and a big hydraulic
pump on
> > the front of your motor which could be mounted _anywhere_ in
your
> > vehicle would make an interesting installation I think
>
> Yes; they are common in industrial, mining, and other commercial
> vehicles. For example, fork lifts use electric hydraulic pumps
and
> hydraulic motors.
>
> Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
>
>> You would lose a lot of efficiency by driving the pump with the
electric
>> motor.
>
>
> It's less efficient than a gearbox (probably 80% vs. 95%). But,
the
> convenience, durability, and versatility often makes up for it.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
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At 05:23 PM 1/5/2007, you wrote:
> By the way does anybody have a big red panic button on the dash?
> Roger
Is there a safe way to run 140V DC to the dash? I vote no.
This is exactly what we HAVE been doing for damn near ever, with no
problem. You're only running the positive leg of the circuit to the
dash. It's still isolated from the chassis and separated from the
negative leg.
If you're going to run a remote activation cable and keep the breaker
under the hood or elsewhere, be sure that the cable is indeed a woven
cable, not a solid piece of wire. It needs to have enough slack so
the breaker can trip automatically if it senses a problem before you do.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
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I don't know about the breakers used in EVs, but in residential and
commercial applications, "free trip" or "positive trip" is a common
characteristic. Most breakers will thus trip even if the handle is
secured in the ON position.
On 5-Jan-07, at 10:07 PM, Electro Automotive wrote:
At 05:23 PM 1/5/2007, you wrote:
> By the way does anybody have a big red panic button on the dash?
> Roger
Is there a safe way to run 140V DC to the dash? I vote no.
This is exactly what we HAVE been doing for damn near ever, with no
problem. You're only running the positive leg of the circuit to
the dash. It's still isolated from the chassis and separated from
the negative leg.
If you're going to run a remote activation cable and keep the
breaker under the hood or elsewhere, be sure that the cable is
indeed a woven cable, not a solid piece of wire. It needs to have
enough slack so the breaker can trip automatically if it senses a
problem before you do.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone
831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since
1979
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You could do the same thing for less cost with only slighly less
efficicency if you had a single electric motor powering a hydraulic pump
sending hydralic fluild to standard hydraulic motors in each wheel.
Only valves would be needed to creat a slip traction control system and
regen could also happen through the fluid and the single electric
motor.
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 5:23 pm, Chris wrote:
Yes PML Flightlink, makers of printed circuit motors built this 4
wheel drive Mini with 640HP using 4 of their wheel motors
Check it out... http://tinyurl.com/nqddx
If I had the money I would get onto that...
Their webpage is here...
www.pmlflightlink.co.uk not bad progress for a company who started
making computer pancake motors for drives and the like !
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It would be easy four wheel drive if you put a hub motor on each
wheel.
Simple valves could turn it on and off.
Has anyone built a 4 wheel drive all electric?
It would get a lot of press.
It would have interesting climbing ability because of all that
torque.
If you wanted to maximise performance and throw away range with
few
batteries it might win some hill climb competitions for offroad
extreme
rock climbs which usually happen at slow speeds at high angles of
attack.
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 1:06 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I am wondering if anyone has developed a hydraulically driven EV
yet ?
> There
> are many examples of wheel motors which already have mountings
> suitable for
> suspension. Two wheel motors and a big hydraulic pump on the
front of
> your
> motor which could be mounted _anywhere_ in your vehicle would
make an
> interesting installation I think
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes,
globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
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Running high current, high voltage traction wiring inside the
driver's compartment is a lot like running a fuel line inside the
driver's compartment. It simply isn't safe to do.
The EVTC, NEDRA, and the NHRA prohibit the practice in EVs. OEM EVs
from large manufacturer's never allow it either. I haven't looked it
up, but I believe that the S.A.E. has a rule against it too.
Bill Dube'
At 08:07 PM 1/5/2007, you wrote:
At 05:23 PM 1/5/2007, you wrote:
> By the way does anybody have a big red panic button on the dash?
> Roger
Is there a safe way to run 140V DC to the dash? I vote no.
This is exactly what we HAVE been doing for damn near ever, with no
problem. You're only running the positive leg of the circuit to the
dash. It's still isolated from the chassis and separated from the
negative leg.
If you're going to run a remote activation cable and keep the
breaker under the hood or elsewhere, be sure that the cable is
indeed a woven cable, not a solid piece of wire. It needs to have
enough slack so the breaker can trip automatically if it senses a
problem before you do.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
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Jonathan wrote -
> The only problem with that approach is that if
> you pull it, you need to get out and open the hood to reset it (not
> necessarily a bad thing).
Nope, you can turn it on and off from the inside...
All you need to do is run a line in the opposite direction from the tripped
position and loop the wire around a pulley and run it back into the passenger
compartment.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
www.Airphibian.com
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
sounds good, but what happens if you are on a steep hill and you
need to hold the brake pedal while you press the go pedal to get
the car moving without rolling back into the car behind you?
A brake-on-motor-off switch would not work for this situation.
People have been dealing with this situation in vehicles with manual
transmissions forever. You simultaneously release the brake and move
from clutch to accellerator pedal. Or, you apply the emergency brake to
hold you on the hill, and then release it and instant *after* you have
stepped on the accellerator pedal to move forward. An EV is no different.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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