EV Digest 6278
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Big Red Panic Button
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Big Red Panic Button
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Vero Beach WKtEC showing 7pm Sunday Jan. 7
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: What to do with old batteries?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Need a little diagnosis help...
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Hydraulic drive
by "Mark Dodrill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Big Red Panic Button
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Ugly box charger
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Unsafe Controllers
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Big Red Panic Button
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: What to do with old batteries?
by John Dawson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Need a little diagnosis help...
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Big Red Panic Button
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Vero Beach WKtEC showing 7pm Sunday Jan. 7
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: [EV] Re: Unsafe Controllers
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Big Red Panic Button
by "BFRListmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: ProEV news
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Big Red Panic Button
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Charger Interlock/Contactor/DC COnv Question
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Big Red Panic Button
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Rolands Ebike
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: [EV] Re: Unsafe Controllers, an' Stuff.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) DCP600
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Two Contactors, Was: Unsafe Controllers
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Brian M. Sutin wrote:
Is there a safe way to run 140V DC to the dash? I vote no. A rod
to a breaker behind the firewall, perhaps?
Yes, you can do it safely. Treat it just like you treat the 120vac and
240vac in your home or at work. The high voltage "stuff" goes inside a
fireproof metal box, built so it is impossible to touch any of it
without disassembling it with tools. You can have holes or an access
door to get at the controls and indicators that do not allow any
possibility of shocks.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dube wrote:
Running high current, high voltage traction wiring inside the driver's
compartment is a lot like running a fuel line inside the driver's
compartment. It simply isn't safe to do.
The EVTC, NEDRA, and the NHRA prohibit the practice in EVs. OEM EVs from
large manufacturer's never allow it either. I haven't looked it up, but
I believe that the S.A.E. has a rule against it too.
Bill, don't you mean that *IF* a fuel line or high voltage components is
inside the passenger compartment, *THEN* they must be protected with
normal industry safety practices?
For electrical equipment, this means wires in steel conduits, circuit
breakers in steel boxes, etc.
My Prius has its battery pack in a metal box, which is mounted INSIDE
the passenger compartment under the back seat.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There will be a free showing of the film "Who Killed the Electric Car?" this
coming Sunday, January 7 at 7pm in Vero Beach, Florida at:
Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of Vero Beach
1590 27th Ave.
Vero Beach, FL 32960
Contact telephone: 772-778-5880
A discussion will follow the film, and there will be at least one, possibly
two, EVs on display in the parking lot, including a Toyota RAV4-EV.
All are welcome.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jennifer,
I understand your feeling, that is why the motto of the
Freecycle movement (now a commercial company, unfortunately)
appeals to me: Reduce-Reuse-Recycle.
If you have the need for a little standby power in case of
outages, then you could keep them for that, but you need to
keep them well charged.
If you want to allow someone else to use them then you should
likely be giving them away, as the scooter is advertised to have
30 mile range, so if you can barely make 12 miles then they
are nearly dead.
You can try Craigslist - it is pretty active here in the SF Bay
area.
Make sure that you first check if the battery vendor wants you
to bring in your old batteries, else you may want to hang on to
them for this swap, else you pay more....
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rodriguez, Jennifer
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 3:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: What to do with old batteries?
I have an EVT 4000e scooter with four B&B EB50 batteries in it (12v
50Ahr each). The hub motor is getting old and crusty (8000 miles on a
sealed, brushed motor) and harder to turn. The scooter plus myself
weighs about 400 lbs. My commute is about 12 miles each way, relatively
flat. Even with careful driving, my scooter just barely makes it to
work now, so I need new batteries. (A new motor would be nice, too, but
I'm going to try to get the advertised 10,000 miles out of this one, and
hope something better comes out by then.)
What kills me, is that if my commute were 5 miles, I'd still be golden.
I'd have tons of commutes still left in these batteries. I know that
the batteries aren't dead, just too dead for me. Is there anything
productive to do with these batteries? I especially wouldn't mind
selling them at a low price, to offset a little of the cost of new
batteries, but would anyone want to buy them? If not, is there
something else good to do with them, rather than just recycle them? I
think they still have some life in them, and hate to waste it.
Or... Are these batteries more dead than I think? Will they decline
rapidly from here, so that even if I had a 5 mile commute they still
wouldn't last as long as I imagine? Of course, they'll decline fast if
I keep trying to push them 12 miles, because they will get more fully
discharged. Unfortunately, I don't have a need to go just a few miles
very often, so I can't test out the 5-mile-commute theory without
wasting a lot of time.
Thanks for any suggestions,
Jenn
Yellow EVT 4000e
Santa Clara, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A friend of mine had a '78 Scirocco with the same problem:
9" ADC
Curtis 1221C
108V Trojan T105 (18 batteries)
Power would completely cut out when starting from a stop. Just when you
hit the middle of the intersection :) It had a new battery pack, and the
potbox checked out OK. I put a VOM on the dash and ran the wires out the
window and under the hood to the potbox - even during an "outage" the
voltage stayed steady.
My friend replaced the 1221C (3rd in 10 years) and has had NO PROBLEMS for
over a year, so it wasn't the potbox or other wiring. I opened the bad
unit and found a few FETs that had unsoldered themselves from the PCB.
They were on the "bottom" of the controller (mounted with terminals UP - a
no no because of condensation/water seepage). I tried troubleshooting the
logic board, but there were no obvious problems.
On the plus side, I have a slightly disassembled 1221C for sale...
Adrian
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you have a source for the hydraulic pumps and motors? I've looked all
around the web, but have not been able to find a good source with real
documentation on how much HP they will produce.
On 1/5/07, GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
You could do the same thing for less cost with only slighly less
efficicency if you had a single electric motor powering a hydraulic pump
sending hydralic fluild to standard hydraulic motors in each wheel.
Only valves would be needed to creat a slip traction control system and
regen could also happen through the fluid and the single electric
motor.
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 5:23 pm, Chris wrote:
> Yes PML Flightlink, makers of printed circuit motors built this 4
> wheel drive Mini with 640HP using 4 of their wheel motors
>
> Check it out... http://tinyurl.com/nqddx
>
> If I had the money I would get onto that...
>
> Their webpage is here...
> www.pmlflightlink.co.uk not bad progress for a company who started
> making computer pancake motors for drives and the like !
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> It would be easy four wheel drive if you put a hub motor on each
> wheel.
>>
>> Simple valves could turn it on and off.
>>
>> Has anyone built a 4 wheel drive all electric?
>> It would get a lot of press.
>> It would have interesting climbing ability because of all that
> torque.
>> If you wanted to maximise performance and throw away range with
> few
>> batteries it might win some hill climb competitions for offroad
> extreme
>> rock climbs which usually happen at slow speeds at high angles of
>> attack.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 1:06 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> > I am wondering if anyone has developed a hydraulically driven EV
> yet ?
>> > There
>> > are many examples of wheel motors which already have mountings
>> > suitable for
>> > suspension. Two wheel motors and a big hydraulic pump on the
> front of
>> > your
>> > motor which could be mounted _anywhere_ in your vehicle would
> make an
>> > interesting installation I think
--
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If there is a continuous barrier (like a box or the body of the car)
between the passengers and the conductors, then they aren't really
"inside" the passenger compartment. (In the example you gave, they
are in the "battery compartment" aren't they?)
The idea is that you don't want the conductors in a place where
someone could touch them accidentally, or could damage the insulation
easily. You also want a barrier to separate the passengers from
plasma, molten metal, and large amounts of smoke should a wire short out.
At 10:01 PM 1/5/2007, you wrote:
Bill Dube wrote:
Running high current, high voltage traction wiring inside the
driver's compartment is a lot like running a fuel line inside the
driver's compartment. It simply isn't safe to do.
The EVTC, NEDRA, and the NHRA prohibit the practice in EVs. OEM EVs
from large manufacturer's never allow it either. I haven't looked
it up, but I believe that the S.A.E. has a rule against it too.
Bill, don't you mean that *IF* a fuel line or high voltage
components is inside the passenger compartment, *THEN* they must be
protected with normal industry safety practices?
For electrical equipment, this means wires in steel conduits,
circuit breakers in steel boxes, etc.
My Prius has its battery pack in a metal box, which is mounted
INSIDE the passenger compartment under the back seat.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is done all the time when you want to feed a low-power,
low voltage circuit off the grid, which is totally isolated.
You start with a small resistor that will take care of all
the spikes, then the capacitor that gives a certain current
per voltage rise, then a bridge rectifier and an electrolytic
capacitor to smooth the voltage and a voltage limiter, often
just a simple zener across the elco.
Night lights with IR movement detection are powered this way
and a host of other gadgets, because the loss is very low in
this capacitive transformation from high voltage to low
voltage.
Now, you said that you want to charge to close to the AC peak.
That would make this circuit very unreliable, as the current
depends on the difference between output voltage and input
(peak) voltage - every change in the grid voltage would have
a large effect on the current.
Luckily you can modify the circuit into a variant that is
capable of delivering much higher than grid peak voltage
(up to 2x) by first reverse charging the capacitor in the
negative phase through a diode, then push the current
through a second diode in the positive phase, the circuit
looks like this (fixed width font):
____ |\ |
o--|____|---||---+---| >|----+-------+---o +
R C1 _|_ |/ | | _|_
~ ^ D2 --- /
~ /_\ --- ^
| D1 | C2 /_\ Z
| | |
o----------------+-----------+-----------o -
R should dissipate only a fraction of the power, so you
will likely get a 1 Ohm or so resistor of several watts,
dependent on your current draw.
C1 determines how much current you will get, see below.
D1 charges the C1 during the negative halfcycle, so the
voltage on the right side of C1 is about 170V higher
than the left side in a 120V AC system.
During the positive halfcycle, the voltage on the left
side of C1 will rise, so C1 will open D2 and charge C2
up to a max of 2x the peak AC voltage, so you better
make sure C2 is a 400V cap.
If you have a battery pack of 144V or above, then this
will replace C2 and Z (Zener) which is needed in
mini-power supplies to limit the voltage on C2 when the
power draw is low.
NOTE that the output is directly connected to the grid!
You may want to make sure this is the N (Neutral) wire.
I did not show a fuse, but it is wise to have a fuse in
line with R.
Current depends on the value of C1 via the formula:
I * t = V * C
(Current times time equals voltage times capacitance)
Since 60 Hz has a 16 ms cycle time, C1 is discharged
during about half that time. It depends on the output
voltage (when does it start to open D2?).
This gives t = 8ms
V depends also on output voltage, but let's say it is
about equal to the AC peak of 170V.
This into the formula gives:
I * 8/1000 = 170 * C
I = 170,000/8 * C
I = 20,000 C (approx).
So, for 50 uF you will get approx 1 Amp.
Hope this helps,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Paul G.
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 6:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Ugly box charger
I'm sorry I have to do this. I should have been able to find this by
searching. (I still suspect I could if I could find the right key
words)
I'm looking at the "ugly box" charger. This is the simple idea where
you put a large (or several smaller in parallel) motor run capacitors
in series with the AC line and then rectify the line after them. The
voltage is not controlled with this type of charger, but the current
is.
What I'm trying to figure out is how much uF of cap I need for a given
current. I'm in the U.S.A so its 60Hz. I'm looking at a case where the
peak of the AC line is slightly above the DC voltage required but would
like a way to understand the range better. I know the power factor is
bad but only want this for a couple of amps off a 20 amp branch
circuit.
Thanx for bailing me out,
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4 Jan 2007 at 21:27, Dale Ulan wrote:
> Contactors wear out early when they need
> to charge a lot of capacitors on every pedal-up/pedal-down.
Use two contactors. Place the precharge resistor across the second one.
Leave it switched in when the car is stopped. In case of a failure, very
little current will flow through the precharge resistor (and probably not
for long).
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Jan 2007 at 17:23, Brian M. Sutin wrote:
> I have purchased a breaker for my car, but I have yet to find a place
> to put it where it can be reached by the driver as an emergency stop.
I've put a breaker under the driver's seat - mounted right at the front, of
course. Now that I think about it, though, the problem is the same as if
you have a cable pull in the middle of the instrument panel. If you're
fighting with the car it's likely that things are a little jostly about
then, and this can lock your inertia-reel seatbelt. Can you reach it? Are
you sure?
My breaker could no doubt be opened with a good kick - but could I find it
quickly enough in a near-panic situation? Good question.
Could you find room right next to the handbrake?
Jonathan Jekir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote :
> Place the breaker in the engine compartment with ON towards
> the front and run some kind of cable to the dash.
See above. Also make sure splash water can't reach the breaker. Wouldn't
do to have its mechanicals rusty and / or dirty when you really, really need
it to open. A tightly weathersealed box ought to do it.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't help with the batteries, but there is definitely hope for your
motor.
See this site:
http://www.7gen.com/book/my-ev-projects/cleaning-an-evt-hub-motor/701
for information on cleaning the dust out of the hub motor.
This motor should last much longer -- 10,000 miles should be nothing.
Unfortunately it does require periodic disassembly and cleaning.
It's awesome you made it to 8000 miles... My first cleaning is about to
commence -- at less than 1000 miles.
Good luck.
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave,
You have no battery problem, only a little imbalance
that you can change by either charging the one battery
separately or controlled equalization (long overcharge
with low current).
Your problem with 10 sec drop-out is either a motor
problem (I was thinking about a worn/stuck brush) or
a short-circuit in the motor circuit (which would explain
the motor voltage going to zero) or a flakey controller
(maybe water/dew getting into the controller?) or an
open circuit in either the controller (broken wire or
PCB hair-crack?) or other wiring around the controller.
Keep scouting for WHEN it happens, rattle the wires,
turn the key off/on, and so on to find where it could
be located and keep on measuring to isolate or dismiss
theories where it can be located...
It apparently is not an overheating controller if you
have it at the beginning of your trip!
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 2:06 PM
To: EVList
Subject: Re: Need a little diagnosis help...
Thanks for the suggestions. Here is more data, more questions.
The throttle pot connections check out with smooth resistance between 0 and
a max of 7. No waver of VOM needle.
This morning I put the volt meter on that battery when I was driving. It
started, not fully charged a about 8.3V. Other batteries near were 8.6.
When driving, the volts went down to about 7.5. When I came to the point
when the car had no power, the voltage had not changed noticeably. Coming
back I tried it on another battery. It was around 8V under load.
After charging, I found I had only 1.135 SG in the low cell, with 1.275
around it. I have a couple of thoughts. Will equalizing possibly get this
cell back? Seemed like it didn't the last time I did that. What about
charging that battery separately - and what suggestions for charging at 8
volts?
Or, would is it likely this battery is finished, and can I bypass it and go
to 108 volts for now, and see if that changes my operating problem?
Thanks
Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dube wrote:
Running high current, high voltage traction wiring inside the
driver's compartment is a lot like running a fuel line inside the
driver's compartment. It simply isn't safe to do.
The EVTC, NEDRA, and the NHRA prohibit the practice in EVs. OEM EVs
from large manufacturer's never allow it either. I haven't looked
it up, but I believe that the S.A.E. has a rule against it too.
Actually, when I converted my Civic I was surprised to find the fuel
lines actually are inside the passenger compartment. They were
pretty buried in a channel on the driver's side of the car, but they
were inside. They were routed through rubber bushings at the
firewall and rear floor so all connections with the engine and fuel
tank were made outside the passenger compartment.
On my conversion I installed the main breaker under the hood, then
connected a choke cable with a red handle to it. The cable is solid,
but I used a slide and stop arrangement to allow the breaker to trip
without moving the cable. It has worked fine except for the tech at
the tire store. despite me telling him it was na electric
conversion, he insisted he could drive the car to bring it inside for
an alignment. 2 minutes after he went out to get it he came back in
and said "I can't get it to start. I even pulled the choke." :^)
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We want to do a free showing like this in Kansas City as well, but
the location host requires a letter from the copyright holder
authorizing us to do so. Does anyone know how we can get this?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
At 08:03 PM 1/5/2007, you wrote:
There will be a free showing of the film "Who Killed the Electric Car?" this
coming Sunday, January 7 at 7pm in Vero Beach, Florida at:
Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of Vero Beach
1590 27th Ave.
Vero Beach, FL 32960
Contact telephone: 772-778-5880
A discussion will follow the film, and there will be at least one, possibly
two, EVs on display in the parking lot, including a Toyota RAV4-EV.
All are welcome.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> I have had the throttle stick wide open on an ICE vehicle three times.
The throttle once stuck wide open in VW bug I was driving in the highway.
I just continued at 70mph until the next stop I could stop and then
killed the ignition. :)
The linkage had stuck in the carb itselt. The pedal was limp.
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | Freedom's just another word
http://e.nn.cl | for nothing left to lose.
|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NHRA says 'Fuel lines must be located outside driver compartment'. If you
see a hot rod that has gauges on the cowl, outside of the car, one is
usually a fuel pressure gauge. You can get an isolator to relocate the fuel
pressure gauge to the inside of the car. Must be a bladder or something?
The only car I can recall using fuel within the drivers compartment is for
demolition derby cars. I that case you're limited to 5 gallons, must have a
fire extinguisher, etc.
NHRA (which came from NEDRA rules) says '..high current wiring may not be
located in driver's compartment'. 'Instrumentation wiring permitted'. So
high voltage is ok, but must be severely current limited. Makes sense. You
need voltmeters/ammeters visible to the driver. But there's no good reason
to interrupt 1k Amps within the driver compartment.
I guess you can argue that if that wiring is throughly protected, then is
isn't really in the 'drivers compartment' anymore. If wiring is in conduit,
that's equivalent to running it on the underside of the body. Rules are
made for a reason, but you should know the intent of the rule. Myself, I
can't see any reason to run wiring through the vehicle when you can run it
under.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: Big Red Panic Button
Bill Dube wrote:
Running high current, high voltage traction wiring inside the driver's
compartment is a lot like running a fuel line inside the driver's
compartment. It simply isn't safe to do.
The EVTC, NEDRA, and the NHRA prohibit the practice in EVs. OEM EVs from
large manufacturer's never allow it either. I haven't looked it up, but I
believe that the S.A.E. has a rule against it too.
Bill, don't you mean that *IF* a fuel line or high voltage components is
inside the passenger compartment, *THEN* they must be protected with
normal industry safety practices?
For electrical equipment, this means wires in steel conduits, circuit
breakers in steel boxes, etc.
My Prius has its battery pack in a metal box, which is mounted INSIDE the
passenger compartment under the back seat.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--
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Congratulations Cliff, well on your way to winning the SCCA Florida Regional
Championship!
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
---------------------------------------------------
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong
man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit
belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short
again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming,
but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself
for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high
achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while
daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid
souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ProEV
Sent: January 5, 2007 6:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: ProEV news
Hi EVers,
Happy New Year!
We have been very busy installing our new pack of High Power 100 amp-hr
Kokams and I have not been able to keep up with the EV list. The pack is now
in and we have posted a write up and lots of pictures on the website. Go to
ProEV.com, then Electric Imp Project, Work History. Scroll down to
'...Upgrading to Kokam High Power cells."
We competed with the new pack last weekend at the SCCA South Atlantic Road
Racing Championship (SARRC) race at Moroso Motorsports Park. We ran a 30+
mile race and finished in 2nd place! It was a great weekend.
We were very conservative for the pack's first outing as we were testing a
number of new systems. We limited amps to 400 in qualifying and 300 in the
race and used only 28 kWhrs from the 35 kWhr pack. We averaged 72 mph around
the track, reaching 111 mph on the straight-aways.
The Kokam cells were great. Despite the usual Florida 85 degree heat and 95%
humidity, the pack stayed within the proper temperature range.
We got lots of good in-car video footage, still pictures and data which will
be going up on the website within the next month. We do not have RSS in
place but you can sign up on our mailing list to get notifications when new
info is posted. http://www.proev.com/C3MList.htm
Our next outing is Battery Beach Burnout on January 26-27. I look forward to
seeing everybody there.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
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There are a couple of automotive standards surrounding high voltage:
SAE J1673 - it does not say you cannot route in a cabin, but does say that
high voltage is not user serviceable and must be packaged in a manner that
prevents inadvertent access by untrained people
DOT Standard S305 - says that in a crash test there cannot be voltage leak
from the battery to the chassis
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
---------------------------------------------------
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong
man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit
belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short
again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming,
but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself
for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high
achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while
daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid
souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bill Dube
Sent: January 5, 2007 7:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Big Red Panic Button
Running high current, high voltage traction wiring inside the driver's
compartment is a lot like running a fuel line inside the driver's
compartment. It simply isn't safe to do.
The EVTC, NEDRA, and the NHRA prohibit the practice in EVs. OEM EVs from
large manufacturer's never allow it either. I haven't looked it up, but I
believe that the S.A.E. has a rule against it too.
Bill Dube'
At 08:07 PM 1/5/2007, you wrote:
>At 05:23 PM 1/5/2007, you wrote:
>> > By the way does anybody have a big red panic button on the dash?
>> > Roger
>>
>>Is there a safe way to run 140V DC to the dash? I vote no.
>
>This is exactly what we HAVE been doing for damn near ever, with no
>problem. You're only running the positive leg of the circuit to the
>dash. It's still isolated from the chassis and separated from the
>negative leg.
>
>If you're going to run a remote activation cable and keep the breaker
>under the hood or elsewhere, be sure that the cable is indeed a woven
>cable, not a solid piece of wire. It needs to have enough slack so the
>breaker can trip automatically if it senses a problem before you do.
>
>Mike Brown
>
>Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
>http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electric Car Conversion
>Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
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Roland, and everyone;
I'm trying do the same thing, and I have some wiring questions. I'm charging
off 220 and I believe
I can run the Schumacher off just one leg. This will keep the house battery
fresh any time the car
is plugged in. The other wrinkle is that I want to be able to run the PFC-30
off 110 or 220.
I have a NEMA 14-30 4 prong twist lock connector in the car. Normally I just
plug in the big
extension cord from my 220 outlet. But I also want to make a short adapter cord
so I can plug the
car into 110 for opportunity charging.
So how do I wire the 110 Schumacher charger to the 4 wires (2 hot, one neutral,
one ground) inside
the car? Just use one hot leg and the neutral?
How do I make the adapter that will go between a 110 extension cord on one end
and the 14-30 4
prong receptacle on the car side? Will I be able to keep the Schumacher
connected? Am I asking for
too much? It is probably simple for some of you, but not obvious to me.
Thanks for the help.
Dave Cover
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Mike,
>
> It is easier to use a small on board 12 volt smart charger that is connected
> to you AC input for your main battery charger. Every time you you have the
> main AC plug on, your 12 volt charger can come on at the same time.
>
> This is what I do, The AC from the main 50 amp input goes to a on board 20
> amp circuit breaker which the 12 volt charger is connected to.
>
> I am use a Solid State Schumacher Model WM-5000A. Current select of 2,
> 10-30 amp. It has digital voltage and state of charge indicators. It will
> auto stop the balk charge and then go into a maintainer cycle.
>
> It will charge standard, deep cycle, AGM or Gel batteries.
>
> I purchase my unit from Wal-Mart or from www.walmart.com.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 11:34 AM
> Subject: Charger Interlock/Contactor/DC COnv Question
>
>
> > Hey All,
> >
> > I have a quick question on modifying my charging operation to allow for
> > charging of the aux battery at the same time the pack is charging.
> >
> > I was wondering how I could provide charger interlock functionality while
> > still allowing the DC to DC converter to charge the aux battery while the
> > pack is charging and not pull it off thew main pack during operation.
> > Since the main contactor in my setup feeds the DC conv through only when
> > the keyswitch relay sees ignition, the DC converter has no voltage during
> > charge and therefore doesnt charge the aux battery.
> >
> > I was thinking of a second contactor on the (-) side of the pack to
> > disable the controller when the charger interlock is engaged but would
> > prefer it be a normally closed contactor so there is only a 12 load during
> > charge.
> >
> > Any experience, thoughts or ideas that can help me get at a safe and
> > reliable solution?
> >
> > TIA, Mike
> >
> >
> > Mike Harvey
> > Harvey Coachworks
> > "They Killed It". We're Bringing It Back to Life"
> >
> >
>
>
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At 07:47 PM 1/5/2007, you wrote:
Running high current, high voltage traction wiring inside the
driver's compartment is a lot like running a fuel line inside the
driver's compartment. It simply isn't safe to do.
You might tell that to NASCAR.
The EVTC, NEDRA, and the NHRA prohibit the practice in EVs. OEM EVs
from large manufacturer's never allow it either.
Oh, yeah, the OEMs are great examples of safety! Let's see, the
OFFICIAL emergency disconnect procedure for one of them (as published
in a workbook for emergency personnel) was to cut the cables. In the
EV1, you had to tilt the driver's seat forward, open an access hatch
behind it, and pull a disconnect. Kind of the Rosemary Woods
maneuver (anybody remember her?). The first thing our daughter the
firefighter said to this was, "Oh, yeah, and I've got a patient in
the driver's seat with a neck injury? Right!"
Besides which, if you have a REAL emergency, the fusible links you
all have in your battery packs (right?) should blow and break the circuit.
Shari Prange
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
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I do agree that hub motors offer the most elegant solution so don't write
them off on 26 inch wheels just yet. I am running one of the new Phoenix
series hub motors on a 26 inch wheel on my tandem. It will haul 2 people
with a combined weight of over 375 pounds up a good hill. When going up this
hill on my own I pedal to make it look like I am powering the bike and I
pass guys on other bicycles like they are standing still. Since they can't
see or hear my motor or see my batteries they think that I am Superman. It
is hilarious! I am totally sold on them. They are also very efficient. I am
running mine on 48 volts with a 40 amp controller. My friend Brian from
Thunderstruck Motors says some people he knows are running them on as much
as 90 volts. Pictures of my tandem here:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1006 I plan on running my Schwinn Spoiler
chopper tandem, (girl in back) on 72 volts.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Rolands Ebike
The double reduction is always an issue on bikes with large wheels. I
built a bike with 20" wheels that had double reduction. They look like
major hacks to me.
Hub-motors are the most elegant but probably only practical on wheels 20"
or smaller. I had a 26" chinese brushed hub-motor that worked decent once
you were moving, on flat ground, but has insufficient torque to really get
you moving from stop or go up any hills. Like the author writes, I think
high torque BLDC motors have the most promise for ebikes.
--
Martin K
Roland Wiench wrote:
Maybe he meant this:
http://www.peltzer.net/ebike/
That its.
This list all the parts, sources and how to do to make a ebike or even
could be use for a 3 wheel bike.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Eduardo Kaftanski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: [EV] Re: Unsafe Controllers
> >
> > I have had the throttle stick wide open on an ICE vehicle three times.
Of course part of growin' up in USA, too<g>!Along with a COMPLETE brake
failure with the old single chamber master cylinders! "look for something
soft and cheap"!To hit!
>
> The throttle once stuck wide open in VW bug I was driving in the highway.
>
> I just continued at 70mph until the next stop I could stop and then
> killed the ignition. :)
> Hi EVerybody;
Hah! With a vw beetle a full throttle and stuck throttle is pretty much
the same. Same with a Diseasel Rabbit, except the thick smoke screen you are
leaving as you burn up your crankcase oil!All this "Unsafe Controller" stuff
brings up the old keep-the-clutch argument. If ya run away, you can jam the
brakes on enough to burn up the clutch, or to TURN OFF THE KEY! The "Line
Switch" big ass contacter opens with a zorch,You DO have one? Right? and you
call the tow truk!I guess you could do a never ending brake stand, til you
run out of juice or tires!
> The linkage had stuck in the carb itselt. The pedal was limp.
> Ah the memories of VWbing! Along with gassing yourself with the rusted
heat? exchangers, in the winter!
Seeya at BBB
Bob
> --
> Eduardo K. |
> http://www.carfun.cl | Freedom's just another word
> http://e.nn.cl | for nothing left to lose.
> |
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.6/617 - Release Date: 1/5/07
>
>
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Jerald,
I have an email from a guy with a flakey DCP600 as well. Maybe between
the 3 of us we can get one running. What do you think?
Mike
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So are these two contactors in series or parallel?
If you put them in series wouldn't they both have to be able to handle the
full current of the motor / controller?
Or could you have one big contactor and a second contactor (in series with
the precharge resistor) across the big contactor? This way the second
contactor would only have to handle the current of the precharge resistor
and could be smaller and less expensive? What type / current contactor
should be used? You would close the smaller contactor to precharge for a
few seconds, then close the big contactor to go.
Is there a problem with this that I am not seeing? Are there better ways to
do this?
_________________________________________________________________
David Roden wrote:
> Use two contactors. Place the precharge resistor across the second one.
> Leave it switched in when the car is stopped. In case of a failure, very
> little current will flow through the precharge resistor (and probably not
> for long).
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