EV Digest 6279
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Ugly box charger
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Rolands Ebike
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Precharge light bulb
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Ugly box charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Hydraulic drive
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Precharge light bulb
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: ProEV news
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Charger Interlock/Contactor/DC COnv Question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: new EV business
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: YouTube was Re: ProEV news
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: [EV] Re: Unsafe Controllers
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: new EV business
by "Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: DCP600
by "Jerald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Two motor questions
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Rolands Ebike
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Rolands Ebike
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) re-thinking forgotten technologys-
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: Two motor questions
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Two motor questions
by "BFRListmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) How to test a motor?
by Aaron Quinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Two motor questions
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Paul,
I think I am the originator of the ugly Box Charger. It got it's name
bacause the first one I gave to Wayland was in a very ugly grey Box. Just as a
rule of thumb a 45 UF oil filled cap will supply a little over 1 amp average
current if you are running 220VAC and charging a 144V pack. The peak current
is
much higher so don't use a wimpy rectifier. Also be aware that without a
load on the output it is 350+ volts, Be carefull.
I have built a capacitivly coupled PFC charger that supplies 10 amps into
my 252V pack. I can supply you with a schematic and parts list. contact me
off list if interested.
Pat Sweeney
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
I'm sorry I have to do this. I should have been able to find this by
searching. (I still suspect I could if I could find the right key
words)
I'm looking at the "ugly box" charger. This is the simple idea where
you put a large (or several smaller in parallel) motor run capacitors
in series with the AC line and then rectify the line after them. The
voltage is not controlled with this type of charger, but the current
is.
What I'm trying to figure out is how much uF of cap I need for a given
current. I'm in the U.S.A so its 60Hz. I'm looking at a case where the
peak of the AC line is slightly above the DC voltage required but would
like a way to understand the range better. I know the power factor is
bad but only want this for a couple of amps off a 20 amp branch
circuit.
Thanx for bailing me out,
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice Roderick. What's stopping you from putting another hubmotor on the
front wheel. Lawrence Rhodes.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A previous owner wired a 7 watt 120v light bulb across the contactor to
precharge the Curtis 1231C controller.
I have never seen a reference to this approach. It leaves the
controller wired to 132 volts peak from the Zivan ng3 charger
through the bulb.
Pros and Cons?
John in Sylmar, 1981 Jet Electrica
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
Luckily you can modify the circuit into a variant that is
capable of delivering much higher than grid peak voltage
(up to 2x)... like this (fixed width font):
____ |\ |
AC hot --|____|---||---+---| >|----+-------+---o +
(black) R C1 _|_ |/ | | _|_
^ D2 --- \ /
/_\ --- ^
| D1 | C2 /_\ Z
| | |
AC neutral ------------+-----------+-------+---o -
(white)
Yes, this is a classic voltage doubler. (BTW, good job on the ASCII
circuit!)
Note that the stress on the parts is pretty high. The ripple current in
C1 is very large; don't try using an electrolytic except at low
currents! For high currents, C1 has to be a plastic film or oil filled
capacitor to survive. The peak current when you first turn it on is very
high, and can easily kill diodes and blow fuses -- use a very large
derating factor (like 50 amp diodes for a 10 amp charger). You'll need
SLOW blow fuses on the input and output.
Finally, include a small "bleeder" resistor across each capacitor.
Without them, the capacitors will remain charged for a long time after
the charger is unplugged, and represent a shock hazard!
Use this circuit with care!
A somewhat better circuit is a halfwave doubler:
AC hot____/\/\________|\|_________+
(black) R1 | |/| |
| D1 _|_
| ___ C1
| |
| AC neutral__|
| (white) |
| _|_
| ___ C2
| D2 |
|_____|/|_____|___-
|\|
This circuit also delivers a DC voltage of up to 2x the peak of the AC
line (320vdc for a 120vac input). Again, the current is limited by the
capacitor values. It lets you use two identical capacitors, each of
which can have half the voltage rating. It also has a more symmetrical
AC current waveform.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Dodrill wrote:
Do you have a source for the hydraulic pumps and motors? I've looked all
around the web, but have not been able to find a good source with real
documentation on how much HP they will produce.
Hydraulic motors are like electric motors; they just convert whatever
amount of power you stuff into them into mechanical horsepower output.
More pressure makes more torque; more flow means more RPM; so more
horsepower (until something breaks).
A good start for surplus hydraulics is the Surplus Center, 1015 West "O"
Street, Lincoln NE 68528, phone 800-488-3407, www.surpluscenter.com
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pro: cheap current source
Pro: you can tell when your contactor is open if the controller draws
some current
Con: relatively delicate
Con: makes it look like an antique (subjective)
--
Martin K
JS wrote:
A previous owner wired a 7 watt 120v light bulb across the contactor
to precharge the Curtis 1231C controller.
I have never seen a reference to this approach. It leaves the
controller wired to 132 volts peak from the Zivan ng3 charger
through the bulb.
Pros and Cons?
John in Sylmar, 1981 Jet Electrica
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cliff,
I went to your site, great job putting the batteries and EVerything together.
I have a question about your brake setup - why 2 pedals? is there a system for
the rear and a system for the front? and what is the other thing on the left, a
push to lock for both pedals?
Thanks,
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
www.Airphibian.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Dave,
There is several ways to connect the charger 120 v cord to a 240 v AC input
power plug.
The best way, which I do, which is more of a industrial type of wiring, is
to have the AC input 4 wires coming from the onboard 30 or 50 amp recepticle
terminate to a large 4 wire power block, which is just a large terminal
strip with box lugs.
You can get these power blocks from a electrical supplier, that may be
may be one solid connection block. You can even go to a track mount
terminal strip, that you can slide on 4/0 to 12 awg wire size box lugs. You
can even mounted switches, relays, circuit breakers, solid state devices,
contactor, motor starters, etc., on to these tracks.
>From what every method of terminal block you use, then cross connect from
the main AC input source to a smaller 30 amp box lug terminal strip, with
one black wire coming off either 120 volt leg of the 240 volt input power.
Also cross connect a white (neutral) and green (ground) to a smaller 30 amp
terminal strip mounted next to the breaker. My breaker which is a Square D
type, is design to snap on to this track which is call a dim rail. The
neutral, ground and I have other spare spaces for other types of wiring.
I cut off the plug of the charger and install the black wire directly to the
circuit breaker, and the white and green wire to the box lugs next to it. I
use a number 6 awg wire size box lugs for the neutral and ground, so I can
install other 120 volt tap off the main.
Instead of cutting off the plug, you can install a cast aluminum junction
box, which is normally made by the Bell Company. Install a 20 amp heavy
duty 120 volt receptacle in this box, with a metal receptacle cover.
Use a type SO No. 12 AWG power cable between the circuit breaker and the
junction box. Use a box connector with a rubber O-ring design to connect
this cord to the junction box.
I have two of these receptacles in my EV. It is handy for plugging in under
dash heaters, pumps, test equipment etc.
The power block terminal strip, allows you to do a lot of future mods which
I have done later. My latest mod is to install a heavy duty 30 amp 2 pole 2
position switches which I either can select the commercial power or from a
on board inverter system which is half or a rotating 7kw alternator
inverter, which can supply 12 v power and 120 VAC 60 hz at the same time.
While this alternator-inverter is turning, I can transfer any of my on board
120 VAC units from the commercial power to this on board system. I can
supply this power to the onboard charger to charge my 12 battery system or
select the alternator to supply the 12 voltage.
My next experiment, is to supply the on board main battery charger with the
7Kw inverter, while the main battery is disconnected from the controller and
motor while coast down, to see if this will provide some REGEN braking.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: Charger Interlock/Contactor/DC COnv Question
> Roland, and everyone;
>
> I'm trying do the same thing, and I have some wiring questions. I'm
> charging off 220 and I believe
> I can run the Schumacher off just one leg. This will keep the house
> battery fresh any time the car
> is plugged in. The other wrinkle is that I want to be able to run the
> PFC-30 off 110 or 220.
>
> I have a NEMA 14-30 4 prong twist lock connector in the car. Normally I
> just plug in the big
> extension cord from my 220 outlet. But I also want to make a short adapter
> cord so I can plug the
> car into 110 for opportunity charging.
>
> So how do I wire the 110 Schumacher charger to the 4 wires (2 hot, one
> neutral, one ground) inside
> the car? Just use one hot leg and the neutral?
>
> How do I make the adapter that will go between a 110 extension cord on one
> end and the 14-30 4
> prong receptacle on the car side? Will I be able to keep the Schumacher
> connected? Am I asking for
> too much? It is probably simple for some of you, but not obvious to me.
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Dave Cover
>
> --- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hello Mike,
> >
> > It is easier to use a small on board 12 volt smart charger that is
> > connected
> > to you AC input for your main battery charger. Every time you you have
> > the
> > main AC plug on, your 12 volt charger can come on at the same time.
> >
> > This is what I do, The AC from the main 50 amp input goes to a on board
> > 20
> > amp circuit breaker which the 12 volt charger is connected to.
> >
> > I am use a Solid State Schumacher Model WM-5000A. Current select of 2,
> > 10-30 amp. It has digital voltage and state of charge indicators. It
> > will
> > auto stop the balk charge and then go into a maintainer cycle.
> >
> > It will charge standard, deep cycle, AGM or Gel batteries.
> >
> > I purchase my unit from Wal-Mart or from www.walmart.com.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 11:34 AM
> > Subject: Charger Interlock/Contactor/DC COnv Question
> >
> >
> > > Hey All,
> > >
> > > I have a quick question on modifying my charging operation to allow
> > > for
> > > charging of the aux battery at the same time the pack is charging.
> > >
> > > I was wondering how I could provide charger interlock functionality
> > > while
> > > still allowing the DC to DC converter to charge the aux battery while
> > > the
> > > pack is charging and not pull it off thew main pack during operation.
> > > Since the main contactor in my setup feeds the DC conv through only
> > > when
> > > the keyswitch relay sees ignition, the DC converter has no voltage
> > > during
> > > charge and therefore doesnt charge the aux battery.
> > >
> > > I was thinking of a second contactor on the (-) side of the pack to
> > > disable the controller when the charger interlock is engaged but would
> > > prefer it be a normally closed contactor so there is only a 12 load
> > > during
> > > charge.
> > >
> > > Any experience, thoughts or ideas that can help me get at a safe and
> > > reliable solution?
> > >
> > > TIA, Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Harvey
> > > Harvey Coachworks
> > > "They Killed It". We're Bringing It Back to Life"
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gary,
You've gotten a lot of good feedback about the hurdles you face. One thing
I haven't seen, and that you may have the expertise to do, is to develop
interfaces for the computers found in modern cars. This has been a major
headache for people wanting to convert newer vehicles. It seems like
EVerything in modern cars go through the computer, and when you remove the
ICE, the computer must be fooled. I don't know how consistant computers
from a single manufacturer are from model to model, but if you could develop
a box that would work with, for example, all Toyotas or all Hondas, I
believe you could find a market for it and maybe even make a profit. You'll
run into this converting your Fit, so that would be a good place to start.
If you can figure out how to talk to the computer and get it to run
everything without the ICE, I think you'll have more customers than you can
handle.
Dave
From: "gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: new EV business
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:13:29 -0600
Since this is probably the largest single collection of EV experts that
there is, and it has been a great list with lots of friendly advice and
good ideas, I'd like to see if I can get some feedback on an EV plan.
I am an electrical engineer (microprocessors, s/w, systems integration,
project management, etc.) and I recently left my job after 23 years to
move cross country with my wife who got a s/w job in San Antonio that
she couldn't refuse. She's paying the bills :<} so I have the rare
opportunity to try to start a business that I care about instead of
going back to a corporate desk. I was looking into solar and wind, but
got hooked on EV's. I know there's never been any money in saving the
environment but I don't need much to get by as long as I'm doing
something I like.
I started building a "rough" 3-wheeler as a test bed and I wanted to
design a few others that I have in mind. This takes money so I started
on a business plan for investors and will continue with that in
parallel. Part of that plan is to convert new cars as a short-term
product, to test systems, and to develop credibility for investors and
customers. Another goal is to design subsystems for EV's. I see plenty
of other people working on new vehicle design and subsystem design so
this is nothing new but hopefully the industry will get the attention it
deserves and will continue to grow.
We just signed on a $30K loan and I have a (refundable) deposit on a
2007 Honda Fit. I selected it based on cost, curb and gross weight,
utility, resale, etc. The Fit is 109 HP, 2432 curb, 3446 gross and $16K
(for "sport" model, base models are too scarce). Seems to be high
demand, and the new engine resale may be pretty good. Lot's of room,
safe, lightweight w/ ok gross, electric throttle and steering assist.
It's a very tight budget to offer a new EV for around $30K, especially
since it needs to be professionally done and maintenance-free, but I am
willing to work full-time to be able to sell the first one at cost.
This will get my foot in the door, test the market, and allow subsequent
conversions to be done much quicker with possibly a small profit. This
isn't intended to be a stand-alone money maker, just a path to learn and
become established. Worst case, I'll "get stuck" with a very nice EV
and continue working on designs.
I initially planned on the first one to be low-budget (DC/Pb) and
another to be high-end (AC/Li) but I'm considering AC/Pb right now.
That makes $30K almost impossible but I'm still trying to price all of
the options (I sent requests to ElectroAuto and MetricMind for
Solectria, Siemens and MES systems). I know Zillas are 6 months out and
I will order one anyway, and I just saw LogiSystems re-engineered Curtis
1221B's that I will look into (any feedback on them?). The goal is for
a daily commuter that will briskly accelerate to 65mph for highway use,
so range will be secondary. Both mine and my wife's daily drives are
well under 30 miles round trip and I have a 5 mile run at 70mph with
trucks on my bumper. I think that's reasonably average for a lot of
people, and battery upgrades would be available.
Non-EV'ers feedback is consistent - "Huh? That's stupid." What's the
feedback from within the community? Aside from why it may not work out,
I'd love to get ideas on component selection. I've read the whole AC vs
DC debate and battery tradeoff's but would still like to hear comments
on this particular application. I'm also open to partnering or helping
other efforts. Investors welcome!
Much appreciated. Thanks and Happy New EV's to everybody!
Gary Krysztopik
Z-Wheelz, LLC (website almost done - details of conversion will be
documented)
gkrysztopik at satx.rr.com
_________________________________________________________________
The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop.
http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are 2 RAV4 EVs in the Maryland area. No, I'm not one of them :(
Dave Goldstein should be able to set you up with one to test drive, as well
as several other EVs.
Dave Davidson
From: nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: YouTube was Re: ProEV news
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:57:01 +0000
ROFLOL - well it'd work for me ;)
coincidentally, if anyone wants me to review their EV while I'm stateside
I shall be in the greater DC area from Friday next week through till 1/20.
Please email me if you have a car you don't mind me videoing and reviewing
for my YouTube Collection. http://youtube.com/profile? user=aminorjourney
My aim is to get as many EVs as possible reviewed in a motoring show
style. If anyone in the greater DC area has a RAV4EV still I'd love to
drive it!
Cheers
Nikki.
P.S. Kate and I will be giving a guest talk at the EVA DC meet on January
16 in Bethesda on UK EVing ;)
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
On Jan 5, 2007, at 5:21 PM, Bill Dube wrote:
Screen shot that is displayed comes from _exactly_ half way though the
video clip.
I've seen folks put a single frame of a sexy girl at the exact half- way
point in their video just to get the increased YouTube hits.
Bill Dube'
At 10:04 AM 1/5/2007, you wrote:
--- Death to All Spammers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> YouTube those videos!
I've seen 750+ downloads for a video uploaded two weeks ago. Actually,
750+ total spread across three videos that are diff. versions of the
same subject (identical key words, same length)
HINT. YouTube displays a "screenshot" from each upload. Not sure how it
selects what image but the three versions ended up "captured" as a
close-up of a (segway) wheel, a mug shot of some old guy and the third
an upperbody and head shot of a good-looking young woman, nicely
dressed and wearing a bike helmet. "*Her*" copy of the three vids gets
about 80% of the hits <smile>
So yah, if anyone has more EV content to upload, it'd be fun if EVers
stuffed this video ballot box.
tks
Lock
Toronto
human-electric
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________________
Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win?
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://davevscarl.spaces.live.com/?icid=T001MSN38C07001
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My father in laws dune buggy had the same problem, it would happen
quite frequently as sand and dirt would get into the linkage. It's
quite an experience finding yourself going full throttle down the
steep edge of a 300 foot sand dune.
On 1/6/07, Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have had the throttle stick wide open on an ICE vehicle three times.
The throttle once stuck wide open in VW bug I was driving in the highway.
I just continued at 70mph until the next stop I could stop and then
killed the ignition. :)
The linkage had stuck in the carb itselt. The pedal was limp.
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | Freedom's just another word
http://e.nn.cl | for nothing left to lose.
|
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This might help....
I've been a member of a Yahoogroup called 'Opendiag' which centres
it's activity about liberating the diagnostic connectors in cars from
being a 'dealer access only' device. In the case of some vehicles the
whole fo the system is discussed, wiring diagrams are forthcoming
sometimes too. It's worth a look http://tinyurl.com/y4foua
http://tinyurl.com/y4foua
Chris
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Gary,
>
> You've gotten a lot of good feedback about the hurdles you face.
One thing
> I haven't seen, and that you may have the expertise to do, is to
develop
> interfaces for the computers found in modern cars. This has been a
major
> headache for people wanting to convert newer vehicles. It seems
like
> EVerything in modern cars go through the computer, and when you
remove the
> ICE, the computer must be fooled. I don't know how consistant
computers
> from a single manufacturer are from model to model, but if you
could develop
> a box that would work with, for example, all Toyotas or all Hondas,
I
> believe you could find a market for it and maybe even make a
profit. You'll
> run into this converting your Fit, so that would be a good place to
start.
> If you can figure out how to talk to the computer and get it to run
> everything without the ICE, I think you'll have more customers than
you can
> handle.
>
> Dave
>
>
> >From: "gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: new EV business
> >Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:13:29 -0600
> >
> >Since this is probably the largest single collection of EV experts
that
> >there is, and it has been a great list with lots of friendly
advice and
> >good ideas, I'd like to see if I can get some feedback on an EV
plan.
> >
> >I am an electrical engineer (microprocessors, s/w, systems
integration,
> >project management, etc.) and I recently left my job after 23
years to
> >move cross country with my wife who got a s/w job in San Antonio
that
> >she couldn't refuse. She's paying the bills :<} so I have the rare
> >opportunity to try to start a business that I care about instead of
> >going back to a corporate desk. I was looking into solar and
wind, but
> >got hooked on EV's. I know there's never been any money in saving
the
> >environment but I don't need much to get by as long as I'm doing
> >something I like.
> >
> >I started building a "rough" 3-wheeler as a test bed and I wanted
to
> >design a few others that I have in mind. This takes money so I
started
> >on a business plan for investors and will continue with that in
> >parallel. Part of that plan is to convert new cars as a short-term
> >product, to test systems, and to develop credibility for investors
and
> >customers. Another goal is to design subsystems for EV's. I see
plenty
> >of other people working on new vehicle design and subsystem design
so
> >this is nothing new but hopefully the industry will get the
attention it
> >deserves and will continue to grow.
> >
> >We just signed on a $30K loan and I have a (refundable) deposit on
a
> >2007 Honda Fit. I selected it based on cost, curb and gross
weight,
> >utility, resale, etc. The Fit is 109 HP, 2432 curb, 3446 gross
and $16K
> >(for "sport" model, base models are too scarce). Seems to be high
> >demand, and the new engine resale may be pretty good. Lot's of
room,
> >safe, lightweight w/ ok gross, electric throttle and steering
assist.
> >It's a very tight budget to offer a new EV for around $30K,
especially
> >since it needs to be professionally done and maintenance-free, but
I am
> >willing to work full-time to be able to sell the first one at cost.
> >This will get my foot in the door, test the market, and allow
subsequent
> >conversions to be done much quicker with possibly a small profit.
This
> >isn't intended to be a stand-alone money maker, just a path to
learn and
> >become established. Worst case, I'll "get stuck" with a very nice
EV
> >and continue working on designs.
> >
> >I initially planned on the first one to be low-budget (DC/Pb) and
> >another to be high-end (AC/Li) but I'm considering AC/Pb right now.
> >That makes $30K almost impossible but I'm still trying to price
all of
> >the options (I sent requests to ElectroAuto and MetricMind for
> >Solectria, Siemens and MES systems). I know Zillas are 6 months
out and
> >I will order one anyway, and I just saw LogiSystems re-engineered
Curtis
> >1221B's that I will look into (any feedback on them?). The goal
is for
> >a daily commuter that will briskly accelerate to 65mph for highway
use,
> >so range will be secondary. Both mine and my wife's daily drives
are
> >well under 30 miles round trip and I have a 5 mile run at 70mph
with
> >trucks on my bumper. I think that's reasonably average for a lot
of
> >people, and battery upgrades would be available.
> >
> >Non-EV'ers feedback is consistent - "Huh? That's stupid." What's
the
> >feedback from within the community? Aside from why it may not
work out,
> >I'd love to get ideas on component selection. I've read the whole
AC vs
> >DC debate and battery tradeoff's but would still like to hear
comments
> >on this particular application. I'm also open to partnering or
helping
> >other efforts. Investors welcome!
> >
> >Much appreciated. Thanks and Happy New EV's to everybody!
> >
> >Gary Krysztopik
> >Z-Wheelz, LLC (website almost done - details of conversion will be
> >documented)
> >gkrysztopik at satx.rr.com
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the
scoop.
> http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline2
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike
Not sure what I am going to do at this point. I took it apart and examined
all of the boards amd chips. There was no visble damage anywhere. I was
hoping to find some MOSFET with blowholes or exploded caps are some other
tell tale. I been reading on the web about testing MOSFETs I guess next
step is to pull some off the board to check or maybe rig up a test jig for
the power section with a few batteries and a light bulb. See if I can get
any signs of life.
I don't mind putting some money into it to fix it, but I hate to put money
in to it and still have it not working when I am done. I was hoping someone
on the list would know what the likely failure mode is for a controller that
has been reverse wired.
I let you know when I get closer to knowing what parts I need to trade out.
Jerald
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Phillips [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 10:12 AM
To: Jerald
Subject: DCP600
Jerald,
I have an email from a guy with a flakey DCP600 as well. Maybe between
the 3 of us we can get one running. What do you think?
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If anyone has any knowledge or insight on how to best configure two motors
[identical motors oriented in the same direction] on an motorcycle [Im sure
that configuring two motors on a car should be similar in a lot of ways]. If
these answers can be found in the archives, that Ive heard mentioned, please
let me know how to search them, otherwise:
Please think about how much stress [fighting against each other, etc
], loss
of efficiency, and other issues are expected with the following scenarios:
One motor can be put on the front and one on the back.
both motors on the rear, but each one on separate chain/belt drives on
either side of the wheel
both motors on the rear, but both on the same chain/belt drive, for this
scenario what is the best way to place the two motors?
Furthermore I would like to consider the three above scenarios with either
both motors running off of one controller or each motor off of separate
controllers [the controllers will be identical also]
check out my blog:
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Martin K wrote:
Hub-motors are the most elegant but probably only practical on wheels
20" or smaller. I had a 26" chinese brushed hub-motor that worked decent
once you were moving, on flat ground, but has insufficient torque to
really get you moving from stop or go up any hills. Like the author
writes, I think high torque BLDC motors have the most promise for ebikes.
Hub motors not powerful enough?
Here is a bit of a posting I made around the time of the NEDRA Nationals in
'05-
"Another interesting EV thing- Keith Vansickle brought a 72V Crystalyte BLDC
hubmotor mounted in a 26" bicycle wheel with the controller and twist-grip.
Plasma Boy wasted no time in commandeering his daugter's almost new mountain
bike for experimentation purposes :^D"
"With Matt Husted in the saddle, and 72V worth of 13Ah Hawkers in a
way-overloaded backpack, that sucker flew to well over 50 mph on the street
in front of John's place. Someone has video. We all yelled "Brakes!" alot.
It was the fastest ebicycle I have ever seen. Jim Husted (Matt's dad) was
relieved to see Matt survive unscathed."
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Director
www.nedra.com
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping
Sales & Deals
http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200639
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I was there and saw it with my own eyes. 50 mph is about right because
the Phoenix Racer series does 28 mph on 36 volts. You double the voltage,
you double the wheels RPM so what we saw was most likely about fifty and it
was very scary. I even thought so :-) But hey, I've never been killed, not
even once!
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: Rolands Ebike
Martin K wrote:
Hub-motors are the most elegant but probably only practical on wheels
20" or smaller. I had a 26" chinese brushed hub-motor that worked decent
once you were moving, on flat ground, but has insufficient torque to
really get you moving from stop or go up any hills. Like the author
writes, I think high torque BLDC motors have the most promise for ebikes.
Hub motors not powerful enough?
Here is a bit of a posting I made around the time of the NEDRA Nationals in
'05-
"Another interesting EV thing- Keith Vansickle brought a 72V Crystalyte BLDC
hubmotor mounted in a 26" bicycle wheel with the controller and twist-grip.
Plasma Boy wasted no time in commandeering his daugter's almost new mountain
bike for experimentation purposes :^D"
"With Matt Husted in the saddle, and 72V worth of 13Ah Hawkers in a
way-overloaded backpack, that sucker flew to well over 50 mph on the street
in front of John's place. Someone has video. We all yelled "Brakes!" alot.
It was the fastest ebicycle I have ever seen. Jim Husted (Matt's dad) was
relieved to see Matt survive unscathed."
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Director
www.nedra.com
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping
Sales & Deals
http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200639
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am constantly amazed at the diversity of ideas put forth on this forum. I
once worked with an old welder who would tell me, "shut up and hold the
bracket still so's I kin weld it- I've forgotten more about this stuff than
you'll
ever know" But who knows for sure? a new twist on old technology has worked
before. I would love to see an electric powered vehicle driven by a
hydrostatic transmission, regen using stored hydraulic pressure? might be able
to
capture more kinetic energy that way- found an interesting article, no pics
though,(darn) just google high mpg hybrid hydraulic vehicle. thanks for all
the
food for thought- everyone! now back to my little workshop- frank walker.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We run two motors on the KillaCycle.
http://www.KillaCycle.com
They are coupled via chain. They are wired in
parallel. They don't fight each other.
They are series-wound motors, so the back EMF
depends on current. This makes them load share
very nicely on the same controller.
I would imagine that two series-wound motors
would load share nicely, even if they were connected to different wheels.
Bill Dube'
At 03:45 PM 1/6/2007, you wrote:
If anyone has any knowledge or insight on how
to best configure two motors [identical motors
oriented in the same direction] on an
motorcycle [Im sure that configuring two
motors on a car should be similar in a lot of
ways]. If these answers can be found in the
archives, that Ive heard mentioned, please
let me know how to search them, otherwise:
Please think about how much stress [fighting
against each other, etc
], loss of efficiency,
and other issues are expected with the following scenarios:
One motor can be put on the front and one on the back.
both motors on the rear, but each one on
separate chain/belt drives on either side of the wheel
both motors on the rear, but both on the
same chain/belt drive, for this scenario what
is the best way to place the two motors?
Furthermore I would like to consider the
three above scenarios with either both motors
running off of one controller or each motor off
of separate controllers [the controllers will be identical also]
check out my blog:
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dale,
Are you saying a motor on the front wheel and another on the back? I think
I've heard of this once, but as I recall, the results weren't pretty.
Two controllers would be effective if a single controller couldn't deliver
the amps you needed.
I've run twin motors in a series/parallel configuration on my drag bike.
Chained back to a common jackshaft. Contactor control. Silicon Sucks!
Bill,
Do you run the motors series at launch and then parallel when the zilla
decides it best, or just parallel? I guess if it's a zilla 2K, that may be
enough amps even in full parallel.
Would advancing/retarding the timing share the load between motor more
closely?
Darin
BadFishRacing
See you at BB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dube" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: Two motor questions
We run two motors on the KillaCycle.
http://www.KillaCycle.com
They are coupled via chain. They are wired in
parallel. They don't fight each other.
They are series-wound motors, so the back EMF
depends on current. This makes them load share
very nicely on the same controller.
I would imagine that two series-wound motors
would load share nicely, even if they were connected to different wheels.
Bill Dube'
At 03:45 PM 1/6/2007, you wrote:
If anyone has any knowledge or insight on how to best configure two
motors [identical motors oriented in the same direction] on an motorcycle
[I'm sure that configuring two motors on a car should be similar in a lot
of ways]. If these answers can be found in the 'archives', that I've
heard mentioned, please let me know how to search them, otherwise:
Please think about how much stress [fighting against each other, etc.],
loss of efficiency, and other issues are expected with the following
scenarios:
One motor can be put on the front and one on the back.
both motors on the rear, but each one on separate chain/belt drives on
either side of the wheel
both motors on the rear, but both on the same chain/belt drive, for
this scenario what is the best way to place the two motors?
Furthermore I would like to consider the three above scenarios with
either both motors running off of one controller or each motor off of
separate controllers [the controllers will be identical also]
check out my blog:
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.6/617 - Release Date: 1/5/2007
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm new to EV's, but I really want to build at least one EV to show
people that it can be done. I was waiting to send this out question
until I had built my little website about it so that if anyone has
any questions about the pieces and parts, you could check there.
Here's the link for the site:
http://www.quintonet.com/qev1/
I'm using that as my "diary" or "weblog" of the build, for anyone
else that might try to do something like it in the future. One of the
sections I came up with is "Roadblocks." This is where I'm going to
list all of the problems I run into and how I either resolved them,
or got around them. So, at this point, I'm at roadblock # 2, which is
"Will the motor run?" This is where I need some help from the more
experienced EV'rs.
The motor I'm using is a separately excited one from a forklift and I
want to make sure that it will run under battery power before I
continue to buy a controller. I've tried to make note of everything
I've done so far on the website, but basically, here's my question to you:
What do I need to do to get a sepex motor running directly from a
battery? The book I have says that I need to install some type of
resistance in-line with the windings and the armature, but what do I
use for the resistance? I thought about maybe just getting a cheap
headlight and adding that in-line, but then I figured it would
probably blow because of the current of the motor. I tried wiring the
two fields in series, but that didn't do anything. What do you guys
suggest as a means of testing the motor to make sure I can get it to
actually spin?
Aaron Quinto
aaron at quintonet.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes one motor one each wheel is one of the possible configurations Im
inquiring about, Im just brain storming for my next bike.
Those of you who have used two motors, can I get a little more detail on the
setup? Like the rear wheel is driven by chain from the jackshaft, the
jackshaft has two other chains on it one from each motor, or one motor is
higher than the other, etc
Im considering using two controllers not to reach high amps but to maximize
the batteries. If say 8 12 volt batteries where divided into two separate 4 12
volt battery packs [48 volts] then it would seem that two controllers drawing
from their own battery pack would yield 20-30% more range than one controller
drawing from all 8 batteries [the 8 batteries would also be 48 volt,
serial/parallel configuration]
thanks for the help
BFRListmail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dale,
Are you saying a motor on the front wheel and another on the back? I think
I've heard of this once, but as I recall, the results weren't pretty.
Two controllers would be effective if a single controller couldn't deliver
the amps you needed.
I've run twin motors in a series/parallel configuration on my drag bike.
Chained back to a common jackshaft. Contactor control. Silicon Sucks!
Bill,
Do you run the motors series at launch and then parallel when the zilla
decides it best, or just parallel? I guess if it's a zilla 2K, that may be
enough amps even in full parallel.
Would advancing/retarding the timing share the load between motor more
closely?
Darin
BadFishRacing
See you at BB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dube"
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: Two motor questions
We run two motors on the KillaCycle.
http://www.KillaCycle.com
They are coupled via chain. They are wired in
parallel. They don't fight each other.
They are series-wound motors, so the back EMF
depends on current. This makes them load share
very nicely on the same controller.
I would imagine that two series-wound motors
would load share nicely, even if they were connected to different wheels.
Bill Dube'
At 03:45 PM 1/6/2007, you wrote:
>
> If anyone has any knowledge or insight on how to best configure two
> motors [identical motors oriented in the same direction] on an motorcycle
> [I'm sure that configuring two motors on a car should be similar in a lot
> of ways]. If these answers can be found in the 'archives', that I've
> heard mentioned, please let me know how to search them, otherwise:
>
> Please think about how much stress [fighting against each other, etc.],
> loss of efficiency, and other issues are expected with the following
> scenarios:
>
>
> One motor can be put on the front and one on the back.
> both motors on the rear, but each one on separate chain/belt drives on
> either side of the wheel
> both motors on the rear, but both on the same chain/belt drive, for
> this scenario what is the best way to place the two motors?
>
> Furthermore I would like to consider the three above scenarios with
> either both motors running off of one controller or each motor off of
> separate controllers [the controllers will be identical also]
>
>
>
>check out my blog:
>
>http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
> __________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
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Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.6/617 - Release Date: 1/5/2007
check out my blog:
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
