EV Digest 6281
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Chevy VOLT
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Big Red Panic Button
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) gms volt announced at detroit auto show
by "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Chevy VOLT
by Markus Wachsmuth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: GM+Media+Online
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Chevy VOLT
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Rolands Ebike
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Chevy VOLT
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Big Red Panic Button, Hell's Bells!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: How to test a motor?
by "Dave Wilker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 2007 Detroit Auto Show & PHE
by "martin emde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Looking for Kapton heaters
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Chevy VOLT
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Photos from the January BEVOB meet
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: GM+Media+Online
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Chevy VOLT
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: How to test a motor?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Precharge light bulb
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Google Trends
by Aaron Quinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Chevy VOLT
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: 2007 Detroit Auto Show & PHEV
by "Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Two motor questions
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Precharge light bulb
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Chevy VOLT
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) EV's required in 2009!!, eRe: GM+Media+Online
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Security Circuit / Controller failure
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/01/07/detroit-auto-show-its-here-gms-plug-in-hybrid-is-the-chevy-v/
-kert
On 1/7/07, EVdave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Did anyone see the Chevy Volt on GMA this morning? Concept plug-in
hybrid that boasts 40 EV miles per charge.
I googled this, but does anyone know any other sites?
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42868
db
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another way to perform a emergency shut down, is to have a series of dash or
console mounted switches that control a 12 volt relays, which than control
two safety contactors.
There is one switch for each contactor with a backup switch for each switch
There is also two more ignition control back up switches for the standard
ignition switch which also controls high voltage relay which uses pack
voltage to also control the safety contactors.
Is a backup, backup, backup, backup system. I have all these switches in a
roll, which are lighted rocker switches on the console with is only 2 inches
away from my hand.
Without looking, I can hit any one or more of the six switches to
disconnected the battery pack from the controller. I had to do a shut down
once in 30 years. I was park between to cars and the minute I press on the
accelerator, the EV went into a violent acceleration for about a foot, my
hand is always ready like a quick draw which is resting on the console gear
shift and my hand snap back brushing about 4 switches which stop this
reaction.
Roland
> On 06/01/07, Brian M. Sutin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > By the way does anybody have a big red panic button on the dash?
> > > Roger
> >
> > Is there a safe way to run 140V DC to the dash? I vote no. A rod
> > to a breaker behind the firewall, perhaps?
> >
> > I have purchased a breaker for my car, but I have yet to find a place
> > to put it where it can be reached by the driver as an emergency stop.
> > Every good spot seems to be occupied by batteries!
> >
> > --
> > Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
> > Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
sorry about not saying what link was to before. but this is the link to the
anouncement of the chevrolet volt. electric phev.
Tom
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=31656
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Articles about the Volt are available at:
/New York Times
<http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/automobiles/07VOLT.html?_r=1&oref=slogin>/
/Los Angeles Times/
<http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-electric7jan07,0,2190358.story?page=2&coll=la-home-headlines>
/Forbes/
<http://www.forbes.com/business/2007/01/03/general-motors-electric-car-biz-cz_jh_0107electric.html>
IEEE Spectrum <http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jan07/4848>, and
GM's press release
<http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=31656>
EVdave wrote:
Did anyone see the Chevy Volt on GMA this morning? Concept plug-in
hybrid that boasts 40 EV miles per charge.
I googled this, but does anyone know any other sites?
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42868
db
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Until I can walk into my local Chevy dealer and drive out in one, I consider
it just a BS filled publicity stunt. GM could have done this 10 or more
years ago, using the NiMH or even the Panasonic PbA batteries they used in
the EV1 and S10.
From: "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: GM+Media+Online
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 09:51:53 -0500
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=31656
_________________________________________________________________
Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page
www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
PR stunt or will it be available in the next 10 years?
Markus Wachsmuth wrote:
Articles about the Volt are available at:
/New York Times
<http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/automobiles/07VOLT.html?_r=1&oref=slogin>/
/Los Angeles Times/
<http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-electric7jan07,0,2190358.story?page=2&coll=la-home-headlines>
/Forbes/
<http://www.forbes.com/business/2007/01/03/general-motors-electric-car-biz-cz_jh_0107electric.html>
IEEE Spectrum <http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jan07/4848>, and
GM's press release
<http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=31656>
EVdave wrote:
Did anyone see the Chevy Volt on GMA this morning? Concept plug-in
hybrid that boasts 40 EV miles per charge.
I googled this, but does anyone know any other sites?
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42868
db
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doubling the voltage also quadruples the horsepower. LR..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: Rolands Ebike
> Yes, I was there and saw it with my own eyes. 50 mph is about right
because
> the Phoenix Racer series does 28 mph on 36 volts. You double the voltage,
> you double the wheels RPM so what we saw was most likely about fifty and
it
> was very scary. I even thought so :-) But hey, I've never been killed, not
> even once!
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 3:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Rolands Ebike
>
>
>
> Martin K wrote:
> >Hub-motors are the most elegant but probably only practical on wheels
> >20" or smaller. I had a 26" chinese brushed hub-motor that worked decent
> >once you were moving, on flat ground, but has insufficient torque to
> >really get you moving from stop or go up any hills. Like the author
> >writes, I think high torque BLDC motors have the most promise for ebikes.
>
> Hub motors not powerful enough?
>
> Here is a bit of a posting I made around the time of the NEDRA Nationals
in
> '05-
>
> "Another interesting EV thing- Keith Vansickle brought a 72V Crystalyte
BLDC
> hubmotor mounted in a 26" bicycle wheel with the controller and
twist-grip.
> Plasma Boy wasted no time in commandeering his daugter's almost new
mountain
> bike for experimentation purposes :^D"
>
> "With Matt Husted in the saddle, and 72V worth of 13Ah Hawkers in a
> way-overloaded backpack, that sucker flew to well over 50 mph on the
street
> in front of John's place. Someone has video. We all yelled "Brakes!" alot.
> It was the fastest ebicycle I have ever seen. Jim Husted (Matt's dad) was
> relieved to see Matt survive unscathed."
> ...
>
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
> NEDRA NW Regional Director
> www.nedra.com
>
> My EV and RE Project Pages-
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
>
> Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping
> Sales & Deals
> http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200639
>
>
>
>
> --
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> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.6/617 - Release Date: 1/5/2007
>
>
>
>
> --
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1/7/07, Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
PR stunt or will it be available in the next 10 years?
Forbes: GM Vice Chairman Robert A. Lutz, known for his love of
gas-guzzling sports cars and fighter jets said, surprisingly: "The
electrification of the automobile is not just a possibility. It is
inevitable."
Its an arms race, and its a race that they cannot afford to lose. I
think they mean it and are dead serious this time around.
Its a pity that they wasted more than fifteen years since EV1, we
might be living in a different world today.
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
Sounds like Roland has it covered! I confess to driving an ev like a
gasser; People have commented on my giving the Rapter a bit of "Juice" and
letting the clutch out as I would with a gas car, slipping the clutch to
start off. Rarely just putting it in gear and giving it the power. Force of
habit from my contacter controller daze, I guess, you HAD to do"Clutch" for
smooth starts!Car has never locked on, but if it did, I would still be in
control. But 50 years of driving clutch cars I'm confortable with that, and
in a runaway , I would slam the clutch to the floor if needed. Jerry
Warfield would be getting my motor for a rewind. Better than a out of
control launch!You know, Murphy's law, it will launch when, you are TRYING
to park, or sheeple are just wandering around you when you are TRYING to go!
They don't hear any engine so figure that you aren't going.Hate to blow the
horn at them, unless it's an AH-OO-GA horn<g>!Guyz at the RR used too say"
Put a BELL on that thing"!So we know yur going, same issue with an electric
locomotive! Could surprise you if you are on the trax, and one moves. But we
have big brass bells on them, like the old steamers, to ring when yur gunna
go. EVery loco has this quaint feature.
Maybe they make nive "Bell" sound chips? And a speaker?
Seeya at BBB?
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Big Red Panic Button
> Another way to perform a emergency shut down, is to have a series of dash
or
> console mounted switches that control a 12 volt relays, which than control
> two safety contactors.
>
> There is one switch for each contactor with a backup switch for each
switch
>
>
> There is also two more ignition control back up switches for the standard
> ignition switch which also controls high voltage relay which uses pack
> voltage to also control the safety contactors.
>
> Is a backup, backup, backup, backup system. I have all these switches in
a
> roll, which are lighted rocker switches on the console with is only 2
inches
> away from my hand.
>
> Without looking, I can hit any one or more of the six switches to
> disconnected the battery pack from the controller. I had to do a shut
down
> once in 30 years. I was park between to cars and the minute I press on
the
> accelerator, the EV went into a violent acceleration for about a foot, my
> hand is always ready like a quick draw which is resting on the console
gear
> shift and my hand snap back brushing about 4 switches which stop this
> reaction.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
> > On 06/01/07, Brian M. Sutin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > By the way does anybody have a big red panic button on the dash?
> > > > Roger
> > >
> > > Is there a safe way to run 140V DC to the dash? I vote no. A rod
> > > to a breaker behind the firewall, perhaps?
> > >
> > > I have purchased a breaker for my car, but I have yet to find a place
> > > to put it where it can be reached by the driver as an emergency stop.
> > > Every good spot seems to be occupied by batteries!
> > >
> > > --
> > > Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
> > > Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/618 - Release Date: 1/6/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You could use a Wheatstone bridge.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: How to test a motor?
>
It's really hard to measure the resistance of a motor. Motors typically
have less than 1 ohm of resistance, you need a special meter that can
measure super low resistance. Even then it's hard to measure, you need
to
rock the shaft back and forth to find the lowest resistance.
Oops, sorry. Need to edit better. I meant to say Armature, not motor.
Please substitute armature for motor above.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's a link to GM's PHEV.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16503845/
Martin
On 1/7/07, Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sunday, January 7, 2006
NBC "Today" Show just broadcast a segment from the Detroit Auto Show and
featured were two PHEV (One Chevy; One Ford) Both capable of traveling 40+
miles before ice kicks in giving them 600+ miles between stops at the gas
station and an overall 55 mpg. Statement from these reps: "This is a "Plug
In" society and car buyers want to plug in at home.
I wonder what gave them that idea? About time they discovered the obvious
Don B. Davidson III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.elecars.spaces.live.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:24 PM 1/6/2007, Bill Dube wrote:
We need about 25 stick-on type Kapton heaters about 10" x 12" for
the battery pack of the KillaCycle.
The max dimensions would be 12" x 14". However, we could use several
smaller heaters to cover the same area instead. Looking for a good
deal on something surplus because new ones are darn expensive.
Any particular reason they have to be the Kapton heaters?
I've used some of the self-regulating heat cable to good effect in my Sparrow.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Even if it were a PR stunt just the fact that some articles are saying 180
mpg by using a plug-in hybrid system powering a car with an electric motor
gives people the "wants" and makes them aware of electric propulsion. In my
opinion the cat is out of the bag and isn't going back in!
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Chevy VOLT
PR stunt or will it be available in the next 10 years?
Markus Wachsmuth wrote:
Articles about the Volt are available at:
/New York Times
<http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/automobiles/07VOLT.html?_r=1&oref=slogin>/
/Los Angeles Times/
<http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-electric7jan07,0,2190358.story?page=2&coll=la-home-headlines>
/Forbes/
<http://www.forbes.com/business/2007/01/03/general-motors-electric-car-biz-cz_jh_0107electric.html>
IEEE Spectrum <http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jan07/4848>, and
GM's press release
<http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=31656>
EVdave wrote:
Did anyone see the Chevy Volt on GMA this morning? Concept plug-in
hybrid that boasts 40 EV miles per charge.
I googled this, but does anyone know any other sites?
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42868
db
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/618 - Release Date: 1/6/2007
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/618 - Release Date: 1/6/2007
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
Okay, so it's not a great turnout when compared to some big meet out
in CA - but we had 20 people turn up today for the BEVOB meeting in
Bristol, UK.
Four Evs too, and two ebikes! Photos are here:http://flickr.com/
groups/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/pool/ - Thought you'd all like to share :)
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I personally think you are giving GM engineers far too much credit. I don't
think they could have done this ten years ago. Many years ago I received a
call from an engineer at Ford and he admitted to me that they were way
behind the Japanese in the development of hybrid technology. I think the
reason GM chose the serial hybrid system is that it is much simpler in
design than something like Toyota's hybrid system. It really doesn't matter
if they build it or not or if any American car company does. If it is
feasible to build then the Chinese will build it. Don't get me wrong, I
would love to see a turn around in the US auto industry but the way they
have been going for the last 40 years does not give me much hope. Like I
said in an earlier post, it doesn't matter if it is BS or not, the media
blitz is making people think about plug-in electric cars. You will not be
able to just take that out of their minds. It will be too late. Remember the
damage Toyota's campaign did for electrics, "You don't have to plug it in."
That really stuck in a lot of average American minds. This should help to
rectify that wrong.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:02 AM
Subject: RE: GM+Media+Online
Until I can walk into my local Chevy dealer and drive out in one, I
consider it just a BS filled publicity stunt. GM could have done this 10
or more years ago, using the NiMH or even the Panasonic PbA batteries they
used in the EV1 and S10.
From: "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: GM+Media+Online
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 09:51:53 -0500
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=31656
_________________________________________________________________
Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page
www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/618 - Release Date: 1/6/2007
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/618 - Release Date: 1/6/2007
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks to Felix Kramer and the Cal Cars News Group, I woke up to a whole
LIST of articles on the Chevy VOLT.
Here are Two of the most informative secondary web sites.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/01/gm_introduces_e.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/automobiles/07VOLT.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Looks a lot like the new Chev Camero..but with 4 doors. This E-Flex
Series hybarid system is also going into the Saturn VUE Green-Line SUV.
This coupled with GM's news on choosing Li-Ion Battery people is all
GOOD NEWS..
Here is a funny coincidence. Years ago, when the EV1 had its debut, it
was on a December 5th ( My Birthday ! )
Now over a decade later, General Motors chose January 7th, to unveil
its Chev Volt! ( MY WIFE Donna's Birthday !!) Do ya think the EV Gods
are trying to TELL me Something ???
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aaron Quinto wrote:
The motor I'm using is a separately excited one from a forklift and
I want to make sure that it will run under battery power...
What do I need to do to get a sepex motor running directly from a
battery?
Wow; that's a big motor! What did you say it weighed?
It looks pretty crusty, but salvageable. I'd take it to a good shop that
does big DC motors, and have it refurbished (cleaned, commutator turned,
new brushes, etc.). Jim Husted is on the EV list; he may chime in with
more info on this particular motor.
A separately excited motor should have two big terminals for the
armature, and two small terminals for the field. You have to power BOTH
the field AND the armature to make it run. The field winding should have
at least several ohms of resistance (the 1 ohm you mentioned sounds too
low).
But it's also possible that it's a series motor, and has a separate
small shunt field, or even an internal temperature sensor on the small
terminals. You can tell by taking it apart, and looking at the wire size
that the field is wound with. If it has a few turns of heavy wire, it is
a series motor. If it is many turns of small wire, it is a shunt or
sepex motor.
For a bench test, you can connect the field and armature both to a 12v
battery and it should run. Use a cheap set of jumper cables, and (as you
learned) make the final connection between two points that you don't
care if they are damaged from the arcing -- not to the battery post or
motor terminal! Connect the field FIRST, then the armature. When
shutting it off, disconnect the armature first, then the field.
You can also do a generator test (as you did). Connect a voltmeter to
the armature, and spin the motor. With no field power, you get (almost)
no armature voltage. Connect power to the field; the higher the field
voltage and current, the greater the armature voltage will be.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce wrote:
This sounds good. Two details I could use advice on are:
1) The "small relay contact in series with the bulb" - Specifically
what relay or contactor would be suitable for this? Rating /
manufacturer / source?
Unless otherwise specified by the manufacturer, a contact's DC voltage
rating is about 1/4th of its AC voltage rating. So, a "120vac" relay
contact is good for 120/4 = 30vdc, and a "240vac" contact is good for 60vdc.
The voltage rating of contacts in series add. So a 2-pole 240vac relay
can switch 240/4 x 2 = 120vdc; a 3-pole 240vac relay can switch 180vdc.
So, I used a 3-pole relay with 240vac 5amp contacts in series to switch
my precharge resistor (75w light bulb) on my 144vdc pack. I happened to
have this relay in my "junk box" (a Thermo King 1084A82G04), but it's
equivalent to the Potter & Brumfield KUP series. Or, you can use a
special relay with DC rated contacts like the Potter & Brumfield KUEP or
PRD series.
2) "When the controller has precharged, its voltage pulls in a second
relay" -- How do you tell when the controller has precharged?
Where does this second relay get its input from?
I used a relay with a 120vac coil, and added a resistor in series so it
pulled in when it reached 132vdc (about 12v less than my pack voltage).
This was wired across the controller input (B+ to B-). Here again, you
can use an AC coil on DC, but the rated DC voltage is lower. There is no
rule-of-thumb for how much lower; you have to measure it for yourself.
My junkbox relay (CP Clare GP3R123AA6000) required 25vdc to pull in, and
a 6.2k resistor in series to pull in at 132vdc.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone seen this? I found it last night at Google Labs
(http://labs.google.com/) and had to try it. I searched the following
and thought the results were interesting:
Electric Car
http://www.google.com/trends?q=electric+car
Electric Cars
http://www.google.com/trends?q=electric+cars
Electric Vehicle
http://www.google.com/trends?q=electric+vehicle
Electric Vehicles
http://www.google.com/trends?q=electric+vehicles
The one commonality that you'll see is that the searches for each of
these terms went through the roof right after Katrina hit in August
2005. So just for comparison:
Katrina
http://www.google.com/trends?q=katrina
Aaron Quinto
aaron at quintonet.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
150mpg on all electric and 50mpg while the ice is running.
Nice concept but, where will Tesla and Phoenix be in ... 10 years??
Tehben
On Jan 7, 2007, at 9:10 AM, Roderick Wilde wrote:
Even if it were a PR stunt just the fact that some articles are
saying 180 mpg by using a plug-in hybrid system powering a car with
an electric motor gives people the "wants" and makes them aware of
electric propulsion. In my opinion the cat is out of the bag and
isn't going back in!
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin K" <martin-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Chevy VOLT
PR stunt or will it be available in the next 10 years?
Markus Wachsmuth wrote:
Articles about the Volt are available at:
/New York Times <http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/automobiles/
07VOLT.html?_r=1&oref=slogin>/
/Los Angeles Times/ <http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-
electric7jan07,0,2190358.story?page=2&coll=la-home-headlines>
/Forbes/ <http://www.forbes.com/business/2007/01/03/general-
motors-electric-car-biz-cz_jh_0107electric.html>
IEEE Spectrum <http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jan07/4848>, and
GM's press release <http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?
target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/
viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=31656>
EVdave wrote:
Did anyone see the Chevy Volt on GMA this morning? Concept plug-in
hybrid that boasts 40 EV miles per charge.
I googled this, but does anyone know any other sites?
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42868
db
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--- Begin Message ---
No problem, I apologise for not thanking you for bringing this
excellent news to my attention.
Chris
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> OOPS! Old habits are hard to break! Sunday, January 7, 2007 is what
I meant
> to say
> Don B. Davidson III
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:46 AM
> Subject: Re: 2007 Detroit Auto Show & PHEV
>
>
> >
> > That was last year, surely it should be 2007 ?
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Don" <ev@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Sunday, January 7, 2006
> > > NBC "Today" Show just broadcast a segment from the Detroit Auto
> > Show and featured were two PHEV (One Chevy; One Ford) Both
capable of
> > traveling 40+ miles before ice kicks in giving them 600+ miles
> > between stops at the gas station and an overall 55 mpg. Statement
> > from these reps: "This is a "Plug In" society and car buyers want
to
> > plug in at home.
> > > I wonder what gave them that idea? About time they discovered
the
> > obvious
> > >
> > > Don B. Davidson III
> > > dbdiii@
> > > www.elecars.spaces.live.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just to check, if I had two Trojan T-605s 6-volt batteries [rated for 105
minutes at 75 amps, each] set up in parallel they will deliver 6-volts at 150
amps for 105 minutes?
Thanks; assuming my statement above is correct, youve answered my question,
even though I asked it incorrectly. I was trying to compare two smaller
batteries in parallel vs. one big battery for example: again, the two T-605s
together weigh 116 lbs and deliver 150 for 105 minutes [and have 210 AH at the
20 hr rate], but one Trojan L16H [420 AH at the 20 hr rate] weighs 121 lbs and
delivers 150 amps for only 74.261 minutes or only about 70% the duration of the
two smaller batteries for the same amps
Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Im considering using two controllers not to reach high amps but to
> maximize the batteries. If say 8 12 volt batteries where divided into
> two separate 4 12 volt battery packs [48 volts] then it would seem that
> two controllers drawing from their own battery pack would yield 20-30%
> more range than one controller drawing from all 8 batteries [the 8
> batteries would also be 48 volt, serial/parallel configuration]
Why would you think that?
The current will be exactly the same either way.
If you need 5kw to go a certain speed, the it works out to ~52 amps per
battery. If you use two controllers, then each string needs to produce
52amps. If you use buddy pairs, then the pairs have to produce 104 amps,
which is 52 amps per battery.
Power equals volts * amps. It ALWAYS works out to the same current per
battery no matter how you stack the batteries.
I.e. 5kw / 8 = 625 watts per battery, that works out to 12V @ ~52 amps.
Please note: for simplicity I've assumed an ideal battery that has no sag
and produces exactly 12V. IRL the battery's voltage will sag under load
and it need to produce MORE current to make up for it, but the end result
STILL works out to exactly the same power per battery, which means the
same current.
>
> Bill,
>
> Do you run the motors series at launch and then parallel when the zilla
> decides it best, or just parallel? I guess if it's a zilla 2K, that may be
> enough amps even in full parallel.
> Would advancing/retarding the timing share the load between motor more
> closely?
>
>
> Darin
> BadFishRacing
>
> See you at BB
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Dube"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 6:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Two motor questions
>
>
> We run two motors on the KillaCycle.
> http://www.KillaCycle.com
>
> They are coupled via chain. They are wired in
> parallel. They don't fight each other.
>
> They are series-wound motors, so the back EMF
> depends on current. This makes them load share
> very nicely on the same controller.
>
> I would imagine that two series-wound motors
> would load share nicely, even if they were connected to different wheels.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
> At 03:45 PM 1/6/2007, you wrote:
>>
>> If anyone has any knowledge or insight on how to best configure two
>> motors [identical motors oriented in the same direction] on an
>> motorcycle
>> [I'm sure that configuring two motors on a car should be similar in a
>> lot
>> of ways]. If these answers can be found in the 'archives', that I've
>> heard mentioned, please let me know how to search them, otherwise:
>>
>> Please think about how much stress [fighting against each other, etc.],
>> loss of efficiency, and other issues are expected with the following
>> scenarios:
>>
>>
>> One motor can be put on the front and one on the back.
>> both motors on the rear, but each one on separate chain/belt drives on
>> either side of the wheel
>> both motors on the rear, but both on the same chain/belt drive, for
>> this scenario what is the best way to place the two motors?
>>
>> Furthermore I would like to consider the three above scenarios with
>> either both motors running off of one controller or each motor off of
>> separate controllers [the controllers will be identical also]
>>
>>
>>
>>check out my blog:
>>
>>http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
>> __________________________________________________
>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
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> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.6/617 - Release Date: 1/5/2007
>
>
>
>
> check out my blog:
>
> http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
> __________________________________________________
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> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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check out my blog:
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 6, 2007, at 7:10 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
You don't want to leave the bulb in the circuit all the time, or
you're leaving the controller "on" as you said. I have a small relay
contact in series with my bulb; when I turn on the key, this relay
pulls in and connects the bulb. When the controller has precharged,
its voltage pulls in a second relay, whose contacts enable the main
contactor to close.
With the Curtis controllers you can shut them down by removing pack
plus from the ksi terminal with a relay that operates with the main
contactor. The controller still has near pack voltage on it (in my case
about 10 volts less with a 7.5 watt bulb on a 1221b), but is not ON
(won't try to move the vehicle.)
With a 132 volt pack I would be concerned that the bulb will fail
unexpectedly. When the bulb is first turned on and the Curtis input
caps are not charged the voltage across the bulb is around 140 volts.
If you only switch ksi then the only time the bulb takes the full pack
voltage is when you screw it in.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When they have a concept car, do they actually have a working prototype? There
are some great concepts shown with the Volt.
They say that the batteries are not there yet.
What about the genset. Do they actually have a 53kw genset with an efficient
1 litre engine that's 50+mpg and very super lightweight to fit in an EV and can
run continuous duty for 600 miles?
I want one. Most 50kw continuous duty gensets are about 600lbs and sit on a
trailer or take a pickup truck to haul.
Ray
Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thanks to Felix Kramer and the Cal Cars News Group, I woke up to a whole
LIST of articles on the Chevy VOLT.
Here are Two of the most informative secondary web sites.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/01/gm_introduces_e.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/automobiles/07VOLT.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Looks a lot like the new Chev Camero..but with 4 doors. This E-Flex
Series hybarid system is also going into the Saturn VUE Green-Line SUV.
This coupled with GM's news on choosing Li-Ion Battery people is all
GOOD NEWS..
Here is a funny coincidence. Years ago, when the EV1 had its debut, it
was on a December 5th ( My Birthday ! )
Now over a decade later, General Motors chose January 7th, to unveil
its Chev Volt! ( MY WIFE Donna's Birthday !!) Do ya think the EV Gods
are trying to TELL me Something ???
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rod and All,
I sent this last week and no one said anything
so I called CARB and talked to the head of this and yes, the
big 6 auto companies will have to build 2% Zero Emissions
Vehicles, ZEV's, which means EV's unless fool cells have a
big breakthrough!! And it's 2% EV, 2% PHEV in Cal and 10
other states, mostly in New England.
Jerry Dycus
Hi GW and All,
Good find GW!! This is very important as this
board rules Cal, 10 other states and EV's!! Their earlier
rulings are what brought us the EV's of the late 90's like
the RAV4EV, EV-1, ect. their capitulation was what stopped
EV's again!! Now it looks like they are going EV mandate
again and a reason for recent big auto talks about EV
projects.
Anyone with inside knowledge on this?
If true, Car makers will have to build 10's of
thousands EV's/yr!!!!
Jerry dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Fw: [future-fuels-and-vehicles] (fwd) OT: Sawyer
comment on ZEV waiver approval
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:30:55 -0500
>
>
>Don't know how to judge if this is hot air, but I hope it's
>not.
>
>http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/nr122206.htm
>
>
>California Environmental Protection Agency
>NEWS RELEASE
>
>Air Resources Board
>
>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>December 22, 2006
>
>CONTACT:
>Jerry Martin
>Gennet Paauwe
>(916) 322-2990
>http://www.arb.ca.gov
>
>Statement by California Air Resources Board Chairman Dr.
>Robert Sawyer on
>USEPAÆs Approval of CaliforniaÆs Waiver Request for
Zero
>Emission Vehicles
>
>California received an early Christmas present from
>Washington today in the form of a waiver for our Zero
>Emission Vehicle regulations. With this
>waiver, California and the other ten
>states that have adopted our ZEV regulations can expect
>emission-free vehicles powered by fuel cells or batteries
>on their roads starting by 2009.
>
>The waiver also allows California to enforce its
>requirement for other near zero technologies, such as
>hybrid electric vehicles or the increasingly popular
>Partial Zero Emission Vehicles (PZEVs). These gasoline
>powered vehicles are armed with the worldÆs cleanest
>tailpipe standard, zero evaporative emission technology and
>a 15 year, 150,000 mile
>warranty on emission control
>equipment. Already, there are hundreds of thousands of
>these popular, modest priced cars on the roads and this
>waiver assures us of millions more within the next few
>years.
>
>This is a real Christmas gift for all of us. All
>Californians will breathe easier because of this measure
>and the technology that makes these
>clean cars possible can now be made available to everyone.
>
>Dr. Robert Sawyer,
>Chairman,
>California Air Resources Board
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello:
I finished putting my controller failure security system in my truck and I
thought I give some info:
I reed-relay is put across (+) to controller. It switches (+) from the
brake lights to a relay. The relay would be activated if the brake lights
are on AND the reed switch is closed (at about 200 Amps). It will then
disconnect the contractor.
Well, first try worked great - however, since once the contractor has been
disabled, there will be no more current at the (+) leading to the
controller, hence the reed opens, the control relay opens, the contractor
re-engages and everything starts from the beginning, leading to a
contractor flutter. SO - one has to make sure that once the relay engages,
it needs to stay engaged preventing the continuous open- and close of the
controller.
Did that now and the contractor will be disabled until ignition is turned
off.
With the added safety in place, I feel much better now.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
