EV Digest 6282
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Chevy Volta - was GM+Media+Online
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Precharge light bulb
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Precharge and relays
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Chevy VOLT
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) WX now!
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) PWM Module for fan
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: GM+Media+Online
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: GM+Media+Online
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Waiting on GM
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: PWM Module for fan
by "Aaron Quinto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Waiting on GM
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Chevy VOLT - NOT!
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: PWM Module for fan
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Chevy Volt
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Hydraulic drive
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Chevy VOLT
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: PWM Module for fan
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Two motor questions
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Silent Running
by "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Hydraulic drive
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) New EV Drag Race Videos on Google Video
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Chevy VOLT - NOT!
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) NEDRA Racers advice
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: NEDRA Racers advice
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Very strange Dragonfly news...
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Chevy VOLT
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Chevy VOLT
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Chevy VOLT
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Chevy VOLT
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Chevy VOLT
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Battery Beach ScooterCross
by "BFRListmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: Controllers
by "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Sure they could have. Ten years ago, the EV1 had already been developed and
was in the hands of fleet drivers (or soon to be), along with the S10 using
the same drive train. All they had to do was include a small generator to
recharge the batteries on the fly and provide some propulsion power. I think
even the GM engineers could have figured out that one, especially using the
S10 since it has plenty of room (as could Ford using the Ranger EV).
On everything else, I totally agree with you.
Dave Davidson
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: GM+Media+Online
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:41:57 -0800
I personally think you are giving GM engineers far too much credit. I don't
think they could have done this ten years ago. Many years ago I received a
call from an engineer at Ford and he admitted to me that they were way
behind the Japanese in the development of hybrid technology. I think the
reason GM chose the serial hybrid system is that it is much simpler in
design than something like Toyota's hybrid system. It really doesn't matter
if they build it or not or if any American car company does. If it is
feasible to build then the Chinese will build it. Don't get me wrong, I
would love to see a turn around in the US auto industry but the way they
have been going for the last 40 years does not give me much hope. Like I
said in an earlier post, it doesn't matter if it is BS or not, the media
blitz is making people think about plug-in electric cars. You will not be
able to just take that out of their minds. It will be too late. Remember
the damage Toyota's campaign did for electrics, "You don't have to plug it
in." That really stuck in a lot of average American minds. This should help
to rectify that wrong.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:02 AM
Subject: RE: GM+Media+Online
Until I can walk into my local Chevy dealer and drive out in one, I
consider it just a BS filled publicity stunt. GM could have done this 10
or more years ago, using the NiMH or even the Panasonic PbA batteries they
used in the EV1 and S10.
From: "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: GM+Media+Online
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 09:51:53 -0500
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=31656
_________________________________________________________________
Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered
by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul G. wrote:
With the Curtis controllers you can shut them down by removing pack plus
from the ksi terminal with a relay that operates with the main
contactor. The controller still has near pack voltage on it (in my case
about 10 volts less with a 7.5 watt bulb on a 1221b), but is not ON
(won't try to move the vehicle.)
True enough; but the capacitors remain charged and the MOSFETs have to
withstand whatever voltage is applied. This will reduce their life, and
may cause failures if the charger lets the voltage get too high.
With a 132 volt pack I would be concerned that the bulb will fail
unexpectedly. When the bulb is first turned on and the Curtis input
caps are not charged the voltage across the bulb is around 140 volts.
The voltage rating on a light bulb is its recommended operating voltage;
not its peak or short-term rating. In my 132v EV, the 75w 130v bulb
hardly has time to begin to light -- you see a brief, dim flash and the
controller is precharged. I've had the same light bulb after 8 years.
Just watch the bulb as it precharges. If it doesn't get as bright as it
does on normal rated voltage, then it's fine, even if the peak voltage
might be higher.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found a 3 pole double throw relay. It was not adequately rated for
120 volts DC
so I opened it up, and bent the open contacts to increase the gap on all
3 series poles.
No more welded contacts.
An AC relay can usually be identified by a heavy copper ring around the
coil to prevent
chattering.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1/7/07, Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
150mpg on all electric and 50mpg while the ice is running.
Nice concept but, where will Tesla and Phoenix be in ... 10 years??
Prototype pics from unveiling here:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/detroit-auto-show-chevy-volt-live/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The weather channel covering the car show and other electrics!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello:
The guy(s) who started the conversion of my truck (before I bought it)
ripped pretty much all electronics out, including the speed control of my
climate control fan. It works on/off, but only full speed ahead, pulling
>= 15A in the process. Now - that puts a lot of strain on my DC/DC and I
was wondering if there might be a way to have a PWM circuit to reduce
load, giving me the opportunity to turn the fan lower.
Any help or idea is appreciated.
mm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
American car manufacturers are again perfecting the art of blowing steam.
We ain't got something yet because:
(circle appropriate)
[] Fuel cells are not yet available
[} Not enough customer demand
[] No CNG fueling infrastructure
[] Not the right batteries available
[] Customers want V8 engines
In order to change things, we need:
[] Cash
[] Tax breaks
[] Reduce work force
[] Import restrictions on Asian car manufacturers
[] More cash
[] To tap into pension funds
[] Continuing tax write-offs for 3/4 ton trucks
We don't need:
[] Any restrictions on fuel consumption
[] Cut in federal support
[] Federal Environment Tax on gas
[] Demanding customers
While GM & friends are telling the public why the can't do stuff, smart
customers by Toyotas and Hondas. Or convert their cars to Electric - even
if it hurts.
To quote George Carlin: Just relax and enjoy the show ;)
mm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela Merz wrote:
American car manufacturers are again perfecting the art of blowing
steam... To quote George Carlin: Just relax and enjoy the show ;)
Great response, Michaela! The sad thing is that they lie so often and so
convincingly that they even fool themselves!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
RE EV: It's a do-it-yourself world. Why did it take so long for me to
realize it?
John, ab6oh in Sylmar, CA 1981 Jet Electrica, PV charged
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What year, make and model is the truck? You might be able to find the
correct resistor for it at an auto parts store. My dad's 2000 Ranger does
that too and a new "resistor pack" for the other 3 speeds costs $24 plus
installation.
Aaron Quinto
aaron at quintonet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 6:04 PM
Subject: PWM Module for fan
>
> Hello:
>
> The guy(s) who started the conversion of my truck (before I bought it)
> ripped pretty much all electronics out, including the speed control of my
> climate control fan. It works on/off, but only full speed ahead, pulling
> >= 15A in the process. Now - that puts a lot of strain on my DC/DC and I
> was wondering if there might be a way to have a PWM circuit to reduce
> load, giving me the opportunity to turn the fan lower.
>
> Any help or idea is appreciated.
>
> mm.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
JS wrote:
RE EV: It's a do-it-yourself world. Why did it take so long for me to
realize it?
A common big-company strategy for knocking out competition is to *claim*
they are working on some hot new product that will be out "real soon
now". This gets people to put off buying from a competitor or taking any
other constructive actions. Of course, the hot new product never comes
out...
Steve McCrea wrote a book about converting cars to EVs back in 1991,
titled "Why Wait for Detroit?" It's even more appropriate today than it
was back then!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I plan to buy an OEM electric car as soon as one is available. I
would like to buy a serial hybrid or pure electric with lithium cells
that does not look like a toy. However GM is right out. I refuse to
buy from such a two faced company. Ford is also not very high on my
personal list either. I got most of my information from this list and
I thank you for it. I just wanted to say that. It was nice to have
someone help cut through the doublethink for me. My Zilla can't get
here too soon.
R. Matt Milliron
1981 Jet Electrica
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If it was an OEM speed control, it should be available
at the junkyard from other S10/Sonoma or whatever names
and brands this same truck has had over time.
Alternative may be after-market?
Since it's a low voltage speed control, it may even
be possible to replace it with the eBike controller types,
though you need to check that it is the right type of
motor to do that.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Michaela Merz
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 3:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: PWM Module for fan
Hello:
The guy(s) who started the conversion of my truck (before I bought it)
ripped pretty much all electronics out, including the speed control of my
climate control fan. It works on/off, but only full speed ahead, pulling
>= 15A in the process. Now - that puts a lot of strain on my DC/DC and I
was wondering if there might be a way to have a PWM circuit to reduce
load, giving me the opportunity to turn the fan lower.
Any help or idea is appreciated.
mm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
150mpg on all electric and 50mpg while the ice is running.
Nice concept but, where will Tesla and Phoenix be in ... 10 years??
In my driveway! I hope.
I too am skeptical for a few reasons. One they used the magical 10 year
number; again.
Then they had to try and take credit for starting the green revolution.
I think Lutz's heart is in it this time but the marketing wreaks. When I
see ads announcing it's release in two years all over the place, then
cars on lots and even more advertising and then we can buy them not
lease them. Maybe I will believe. But 10 years is about 8 years to late,
Toyota, for example, doesn't need that much time. It was accepted that
concept to production was 5 years, now the industry says 3 years to
change over a line.
How long would it take them to restart the EV1 with Lithium Ion? < 2
years I am sure.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With not mechanical brakes, how do they avoid rolling down hill when they
park on an incline? Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: Hydraulic drive
You could do the same thing for less cost with only slighly less
efficicency if you had a single electric motor powering a hydraulic pump
sending hydralic fluild to standard hydraulic motors in each wheel.
Only valves would be needed to creat a slip traction control system and
regen could also happen through the fluid and the single electric motor.
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 5:23 pm, Chris wrote:
Yes PML Flightlink, makers of printed circuit motors built this 4
wheel drive Mini with 640HP using 4 of their wheel motors
Check it out... http://tinyurl.com/nqddx
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1/7/07, Markus Wachsmuth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Articles about the Volt are available at:
/New York Times
<
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/07/automobiles/07VOLT.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
>/
/Los Angeles Times/
<
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-electric7jan07,0,2190358.story?page=2&coll=la-home-headlines
>
/Forbes/
<
http://www.forbes.com/business/2007/01/03/general-motors-electric-car-biz-cz_jh_0107electric.html
>
IEEE Spectrum <http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jan07/4848>, and
GM's press release
<
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=31656
>
My favorite is the FLASH animation from IEEE Spectrum:
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/lithbat_flash.html
It claims:
16kW LiIon battery pack from 80 cellls [presumably they meant kW-Hr]
Twin 6-gallon gas tanks
110V @ 15A charging port [which would mean 10-hour charge from empty]
53kW generator (driven by a 1.0l, 3-cylinder turbo engine)
120kW motor (i.e. 160HP from the electric motor)
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at Toyota or Tesla as they discuss this
car...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:04 PM 7/01/07 -0600, Michaela wrote:
Hello:
The guy(s) who started the conversion of my truck (before I bought it)
ripped pretty much all electronics out, including the speed control of my
climate control fan. It works on/off, but only full speed ahead, pulling
>= 15A in the process. Now - that puts a lot of strain on my DC/DC and I
was wondering if there might be a way to have a PWM circuit to reduce
load, giving me the opportunity to turn the fan lower.
Any help or idea is appreciated.
On Ebay I see all the time 12V 20A PWM controllers or controller kits for a
reasonable price. I haven't looked too closely at any of them as they come
up in my regular "motor controller" search (business and industrial).
Alternatively there are similar available from electronics hobby supplkiers
here in Aussie, I'd expect the same worldwide. We've made up a couple for
clients for line haulers (deep sea angling) on boats.
One of those wired to the fan should be fine - use your switch for on/off
and either a pot as a 'volume control' or a switch with a set of resistors
for lo-med-hi.
Hope this helps
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Just to check, if I had two Trojan T-605s 6-volt batteries [rated for 105
> minutes at 75 amps, each] set up in parallel they will deliver 6-volts at
> 150 amps for 105 minutes?
Yup.
>
> Thanks; assuming my statement above is correct, youve answered my
> question, even though I asked it incorrectly. I was trying to compare
> two smaller batteries in parallel vs. one big battery for example:
> again, the two T-605s together weigh 116 lbs and deliver 150 for 105
> minutes [and have 210 AH at the 20 hr rate], but one Trojan L16H [420 AH
> at the 20 hr rate] weighs 121 lbs and delivers 150 amps for only 74.261
> minutes or only about 70% the duration of the two smaller batteries for
> the same amps
Ah, well now you are comparing apples to pears. Some batteries are better
than others. The L16H doesn't look like a particularly good candidate for
EVs.
> Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Im considering using two controllers not to reach high amps but to
>> maximize the batteries. If say 8 12 volt batteries where divided into
>> two separate 4 12 volt battery packs [48 volts] then it would seem that
>> two controllers drawing from their own battery pack would yield 20-30%
>> more range than one controller drawing from all 8 batteries [the 8
>> batteries would also be 48 volt, serial/parallel configuration]
>
> Why would you think that?
> The current will be exactly the same either way.
> If you need 5kw to go a certain speed, the it works out to ~52 amps per
> battery. If you use two controllers, then each string needs to produce
> 52amps. If you use buddy pairs, then the pairs have to produce 104 amps,
> which is 52 amps per battery.
>
> Power equals volts * amps. It ALWAYS works out to the same current per
> battery no matter how you stack the batteries.
>
> I.e. 5kw / 8 = 625 watts per battery, that works out to 12V @ ~52 amps.
>
> Please note: for simplicity I've assumed an ideal battery that has no sag
> and produces exactly 12V. IRL the battery's voltage will sag under load
> and it need to produce MORE current to make up for it, but the end result
> STILL works out to exactly the same power per battery, which means the
> same current.
>
>
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> Do you run the motors series at launch and then parallel when the zilla
>> decides it best, or just parallel? I guess if it's a zilla 2K, that may
>> be
>> enough amps even in full parallel.
>> Would advancing/retarding the timing share the load between motor more
>> closely?
>>
>>
>> Darin
>> BadFishRacing
>>
>> See you at BB
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bill Dube"
>> To:
>> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 6:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: Two motor questions
>>
>>
>> We run two motors on the KillaCycle.
>> http://www.KillaCycle.com
>>
>> They are coupled via chain. They are wired in
>> parallel. They don't fight each other.
>>
>> They are series-wound motors, so the back EMF
>> depends on current. This makes them load share
>> very nicely on the same controller.
>>
>> I would imagine that two series-wound motors
>> would load share nicely, even if they were connected to different
>> wheels.
>>
>> Bill Dube'
>>
>> At 03:45 PM 1/6/2007, you wrote:
>>>
>>> If anyone has any knowledge or insight on how to best configure two
>>> motors [identical motors oriented in the same direction] on an
>>> motorcycle
>>> [I'm sure that configuring two motors on a car should be similar in a
>>> lot
>>> of ways]. If these answers can be found in the 'archives', that I've
>>> heard mentioned, please let me know how to search them, otherwise:
>>>
>>> Please think about how much stress [fighting against each other, etc.],
>>> loss of efficiency, and other issues are expected with the following
>>> scenarios:
>>>
>>>
>>> One motor can be put on the front and one on the back.
>>> both motors on the rear, but each one on separate chain/belt drives on
>>> either side of the wheel
>>> both motors on the rear, but both on the same chain/belt drive, for
>>> this scenario what is the best way to place the two motors?
>>>
>>> Furthermore I would like to consider the three above scenarios with
>>> either both motors running off of one controller or each motor off of
>>> separate controllers [the controllers will be identical also]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>check out my blog:
>>>
>>>http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
>>> __________________________________________________
>>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>>http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.6/617 - Release Date: 1/5/2007
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> check out my blog:
>>
>> http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
>
>
> check out my blog:
>
> http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This problem was recently solved by an obscure company called "Curtis".
Their newfangled controllers make a warning sound at low speeds. I bet
everyone will be emulating these soon!
Brian
> [...snip...] sheeple are just wandering around you when you are TRYING to go!
> They don't hear any engine so figure that you aren't going.Hate to blow the
> horn at them, unless it's an AH-OO-GA horn<g>!Guyz at the RR used too say"
> Put a BELL on that thing"!So we know yur going, same issue with an electric
> locomotive! Could surprise you if you are on the trax, and one moves. But we
> have big brass bells on them, like the old steamers, to ring when yur gunna
> go. EVery loco has this quaint feature.
>
> Maybe they make nive "Bell" sound chips? And a speaker?
>
> Seeya at BBB?
>
> Bob
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe they have the same feature that automatic transmission
cars enjoy - a parking pawl, only this time on one or two
wheels.
The alternative would be some OEM supplied wheel chocks ;-)
BTW, my S10 conversion by US Electricar has the manual
transmission (locked in 2nd gear) while the steering column
is from an automatic, the gears are all switched electronically
and the only mechanical function of the automatic gear lever
is to drop a parking pawl on the starter ring.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mark Thomasson
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hydraulic drive
With not mechanical brakes, how do they avoid rolling down hill when they
park on an incline? Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: Hydraulic drive
> You could do the same thing for less cost with only slighly less
> efficicency if you had a single electric motor powering a hydraulic pump
> sending hydralic fluild to standard hydraulic motors in each wheel.
> Only valves would be needed to creat a slip traction control system and
> regen could also happen through the fluid and the single electric motor.
>
> On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 5:23 pm, Chris wrote:
>> Yes PML Flightlink, makers of printed circuit motors built this 4
>> wheel drive Mini with 640HP using 4 of their wheel motors
>>
>> Check it out... http://tinyurl.com/nqddx
>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David O'Neil from the SEVA, the Seattle Electric Vehicle Association, just
put up five new videos on Google Video. Although these are from 1999 there
is some great coverage from two German TV shows which filmed at Woodburn in
1999 as well as coverage on ESPN and the TV show The New Edge with Ryan
Seacrest who now hosts American Idle. There is also a great wheel standing
launch of the "Maniac Mazda" at Bremerton Raceway. You will see lots of EV
folks like Father Time flying over the handlebars when he collides with a
Lincoln Town Car and David Cloud's dragster breaking a sprocket on launch
allowing one of his two motors to over speed and form a great fireball.
There is also John Wayland, Dennis Berube, and Bill Dube just to name a few.
You will have to watch for yourself. You can also do a search for "Maniac
Mazda" which is what Dave put them up under.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6062890668995958197&q=%22maniac+mazda%22&hl=en
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4700006734431244939&q=%22Maniac+Mazda%22&hl=en
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1748502670581883487&q=%22Maniac+Mazda%22&hl=en
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9102640944663336425&q=%22Maniac+Mazda%22&hl=en
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2570172430805457538&q=%22maniac+mazda%22&hl=en
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It looks like the naysayers on this list who think that this is pure BS or a
green publicity stunt may have it right according to comments made by Walter
McManus, a former GM executive who is now director of automotive analysis at
the University of Michigan. In The Independent 1/7/07 from the UK he said he
had: ...."skepticism that the Volt would ever get to market, and said there
were quicker ways for the US car industry to reduce the environmental impact
of their products." You can read the full article here:
http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article2134926.ece
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:18 PM
Subject: Chevy VOLT - NOT!
I plan to buy an OEM electric car as soon as one is available. I
would like to buy a serial hybrid or pure electric with lithium cells
that does not look like a toy. However GM is right out. I refuse to
buy from such a two faced company. Ford is also not very high on my
personal list either. I got most of my information from this list and
I thank you for it. I just wanted to say that. It was nice to have
someone help cut through the doublethink for me. My Zilla can't get
here too soon.
R. Matt Milliron
1981 Jet Electrica
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
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According to the NEDRA rules in the "Street Conversion" class "Heavy duty and
or modified rear axles, ... [are] allowed so long as
the stock housing is retained."
Would this include the addition of bracing weldments on the housing?
Would this include aftermarket axles?
Would this include an aftermarket carrier with locking differentials or
"positrac"?
Locking and Posi- are terms specifically used in the PS and MC classes but not
specifically excluded from the SC class.
In my planning for the electric pinto i'm trying to figure the progression of
the build. Since Pinto's did come stock with Ford
8" rear ends I can save a little $ up front and pop an limited slip or posi
unit into the existing rear end and maybe spot brace
the housing. I could post times in the SC class until I get the full
compliment of Z2K and a couple Warp(something) motors. I
could then either sell the 8" (rear end) or blow it up trying to post an
impressive time whlie staying in the SC class. At which
time I would have to "modify" up to a Ford 9" rear end and whatever other body
and chassis mods I need to improve times. This I
would presume would put the pinto in the PS class.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
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I am going to forward this to the NEDRA board but I will tell you what I
think at the moment. The intent of the Street Conversion class was to be as
near stock appearing as possible. Since heavy duty aftermarket axles and
posi differentials that fit in the housing would not alter the appearance of
the differential I am sure they are OK. What I am doubting is the welding up
of the outside if the diff housing. Like I said I will take this to the
board and we will get back to you.
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA Board Member
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 11:34 PM
Subject: NEDRA Racers advice
According to the NEDRA rules in the "Street Conversion" class "Heavy duty
and or modified rear axles, ... [are] allowed so long as
the stock housing is retained."
Would this include the addition of bracing weldments on the housing?
Would this include aftermarket axles?
Would this include an aftermarket carrier with locking differentials or
"positrac"?
Locking and Posi- are terms specifically used in the PS and MC classes but
not specifically excluded from the SC class.
In my planning for the electric pinto i'm trying to figure the progression
of the build. Since Pinto's did come stock with Ford
8" rear ends I can save a little $ up front and pop an limited slip or
posi unit into the existing rear end and maybe spot brace
the housing. I could post times in the SC class until I get the full
compliment of Z2K and a couple Warp(something) motors. I
could then either sell the 8" (rear end) or blow it up trying to post an
impressive time whlie staying in the SC class. At which
time I would have to "modify" up to a Ford 9" rear end and whatever other
body and chassis mods I need to improve times. This I
would presume would put the pinto in the PS class.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
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Very strange Dragonfly news I ran across completely by accident:
http://transcendentalfloss.com/2006/08/blogging-bellingham-19.html
Bill D.
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It claims:
16kW LiIon battery pack from 80 cellls [presumably they meant kW-Hr]
Twin 6-gallon gas tanks
110V @ 15A charging port [which would mean 10-hour charge from empty]
53kW generator (driven by a 1.0l, 3-cylinder turbo engine)
120kW motor (i.e. 160HP from the electric motor)
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at Toyota or Tesla as they discuss this
car...
AutoBlogGreen posted a spec sheet on Volt:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/01/07/detroit-auto-show-full-specifications-on-the-chevy-volt/
GM has a poll on their page for Volt.
http://www.gm.com/company/gm_exp_live/events/naias_2007/index_flash.html?navID=3.0.1.1
If you havent already, go vote :)
-kert
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the question is, do we answer...
1. No and 2. No --- Don't Build, Won't buy
1. Yes and 2. no --- Yes build, Won't buy
1. No and 2. Yes -- Don't build, Will buy
1. Yes and 2. Yes -- Yes build, Will buy
...to their poll?
I would like a write in...Don't build, will build my own or buy from someone
else (in that order).
I doubt we'll EVer see the results of their poll.
> Kaido Kert wrote
> AutoBlogGreen posted a spec sheet on Volt:
> http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/01/07/detroit-auto-show-full-specifications-on-the-chevy-volt/
>
> GM has a poll on their page for Volt.
> http://www.gm.com/company/gm_exp_live/events/naias_2007/index_flash.html?navID=3.0.1.1
> If you havent already, go vote :)
>
> -kert
>
>
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Mike,
I'd suggest to vote for building, you'd be free to vote
what you like for buying, but think about it (it has been
said before):
How would you like it if in some yearts from now many thousands
of cars with electric propulsion are being made?
I don't care (well - I do, actually but that's another story)
if they generate the electricity with fool cells, gensets,
a super-efficient turbo-charged (diesel?) engine, or that
they help develop battery technology to allow BEVs become
mainstream - in any of these cases we will have access to
a growing pool of electric vehicles and I am sure there
will be an upward trend in battery availability and performance
once all naysayers see that it can work and everyone starts
pushing the cart in the same direction....
Maybe I am an optimist, but apart from it being a trick with
smoke and mirrors, any real development will strengthen the
position of full EVs.
The more feedback GM receives about interest, the more likely
they will actually pursue building it.
Why do you think this introduction is so early?
If they wanted to be first in the market, they would have
kept everything secret and developed ahead, like Toyota did
with the surprise in Hybrid technology.
GM simply wants to test the waters and if it is an acceptable
temperature, they might dive in and swim with the others.
If there is no interest, they will just keep up the press
releases that the battery technology is not there yet or
whatever other lame excuse - even if thousands of EVs are
on the road daily proving that it can be done.
If they get thousands of responses: build it! I'll buy it!
then the direction will be clear.
Just my NSH opinion.
BTW, I could not vote as the site requires Flash and I
have that de-installed to get rid of all those annoying
advertisements on about every website I open.
I may need to go to another PC to vote.
Oh wait - FireFox still works.
Wow - almost 900 votes and more than 98% positive. Sweet.
NOTE that the poll only asks if you'd consider buying one.
The answer to that consideration may still be no,
just think about it (pun intended ;-)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Willmon
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 1:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Chevy VOLT
the question is, do we answer...
1. No and 2. No --- Don't Build, Won't buy
1. Yes and 2. no --- Yes build, Won't buy
1. No and 2. Yes -- Don't build, Will buy
1. Yes and 2. Yes -- Yes build, Will buy
...to their poll?
I would like a write in...Don't build, will build my own or buy from someone
else (in that order).
I doubt we'll EVer see the results of their poll.
> Kaido Kert wrote
> AutoBlogGreen posted a spec sheet on Volt:
>
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/01/07/detroit-auto-show-full-specification
s-on-the-chevy-volt/
>
> GM has a poll on their page for Volt.
>
http://www.gm.com/company/gm_exp_live/events/naias_2007/index_flash.html?nav
ID=3.0.1.1
> If you havent already, go vote :)
>
> -kert
>
>
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Cor,
I followed up my e-mail with the reply below. It just hasn't made it yet. I
suspect if they don't want to build them they will
continue with the "batteries are not there yet" excuse; no matter what their
poll says. It is public however so this bodes well
for the message. However I kinda think they can't afford to miss the boat this
time. But I still don't think they care about an
oil free or pollution free interest.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Willmon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 12:07 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Chevy VOLT
>
>
> I stand corrected, they do show the results.
> I voted Yes and Yes BTW...weelll I would consider it.
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Another place to make yourself heard ( hopefully ). GM Vice Chairman
Robert Lutz blog post (comments enabled ) on Volt concept:
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2007/01/chevy_volt_conc_1.html
-kert
On 1/8/07, Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Cor,
I followed up my e-mail with the reply below. It just hasn't made it yet.
I suspect if they don't want to build them they will
continue with the "batteries are not there yet" excuse; no matter what their
poll says. It is public however so this bodes well
for the message. However I kinda think they can't afford to miss the boat
this time. But I still don't think they care about an
oil free or pollution free interest.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Willmon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 12:07 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Chevy VOLT
>
>
> I stand corrected, they do show the results.
> I voted Yes and Yes BTW...weelll I would consider it.
--- End Message ---
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Battery Beach Organizers,
What is the rough layout and speed of the ScooterCross course? I'm just
building up a scooter right now, and a few course details would help me with
what mods are needed.
Thanks,
Darin Gilbert
BadFishRacing
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a couple of questions on the following, from the EVDL Prof, Lee:
You should start by finding a good, working design example to copy. It
could be a dead controller, or plans from a book or application note
somewhere. Resist the urge to make too many "improvements". There are
likely to be very good reasons why the designer used a 600amp transistor
for a 200amp controller (i.e. because the 200a and 400a ones he tried
died!)
If it were me, I'd oversize the parts by 3:1 to give myself a good safety
margin. For example, 600v parts for a 200v pack, and use enough in
parallel to run them at 1/3rd their rated current.
I wouldn't use a microcomputer.. That way, you have a pretty good chance
of it working.
1. I've seen some dc series motor controller designs in an article, and
book, from a Motorola guy,
a Richard Valentine ("DC Motor Control for ElectricVehiocles" 1993; Motor
Control Electronics Handbook, 1988). However, as these are 1990s
literature, does anyone know of anything more current?
A basic design is also listed in that (ev) cult favorite, "Build your own
Electric Vehicle" by Bob Brant, 1994). BYOEV mentions checking Motorola's
website for white papers on such designs - has anyone
found such papers there? I don't have a PhD. in Motorola website
information retrieval, and have never found much that is useful for this
there, though admittedly it's been a while since I tried...
1a. Bob Brant's book also mentions how
- intelligent modules (decentralized processing resulting in better control
and protection 'at the extremities' say a shutdown or voltage reduction for
an individual IGBT module or something),
-dsp chips, and
-fuzzy logic
will lead to better controllers in the future.
He notes that Motorola's SMARTMOS and SMALLBLOCK intelligent module
technologies
seems to address the intelligent modules issue - any sight of either of
these in modern ev controller 9read dc series motor) controller technology?
Any ideas about where fuzzy logic might help optimize controller design?
2. any specific links on these types of devices, (or price info) for an ev
controller project wannabe ?
" I'd use one of many standard switching
regulator controller ICs that already have the hardware for undervoltage
shutdown, overvoltage lockout, single-pulse current limiting,
overtemperature protection, etc "
Thanks, to anyone with ideas or info (perhaps I should post this on sheen's
motor controller list, but since this list is so huge and knowledgeable
(including idiots, er, novices, like myself as well :-) !), thought Id cast
my nets out wide here ...)
Thanks,
Seth
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