EV Digest 6285
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: thundersky batteries
by "Matthew Drobnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: thundersky batteries
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: PWM Module for fan
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: My 1990 Honda Civic Conversion
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: A down under newby help..
by "Don Moyes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: thundersky batteries
by Bob Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Battery Beach ScooterCross
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Chevy VOLT - NOT!
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Battery Beach ScooterCross
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: thundersky batteries
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: precharge circuitry
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: contacter and circuit breaker
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: thundersky batteries
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: precharge circuitry
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Chevy Volt
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: precharge circuitry
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) EV patent on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) RAV4 EV for $72K
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: EV patent on eBay
by Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Chevy VOLT
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Very strange Dragonfly news...
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: RAV4 EV for $72K
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) The LONG and SHORT of the Chevy Volt Story
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: RAV4 EV for $72K
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Chevy VOLT
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Bellingham: City of Innovation?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: EV patent on eBay
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) a way to lower aerodynamic drag
by Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Other list members were involved in a group buy of their older cells. They
weren't impressed (varying capacity, manufacturing dates, and not meeting
output capabilities...) . I'd stay away if I were you.
-Matt
On 1/8/07, Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
i was just looking at the thundersky website and they have a Li-ion
battery
that is perfect an electric motorcycle i might build. It is a 3.2 volt 80
AH
battery. I was thinking of using 22 of these batteries in series to make
about 72 volts and 80 AH pack. They can dish out up to 400 amps. At 72
volts
this would equate to about 37 HP!. The pack would also only weigh 120
pounds. Not sure what range i would get with these, maybe about 30 miles
with these batteries driven conservativly. On there website it also said
that their batteries costed $0.16 per WH so this means 72volts*80AH=5760WH
5760WH*$0.16=$922. Is this right? thats awful cheap for that much
capacity... I was also planning on using a pmg 132 and altrax 72 volt 450
amp controller for the conversion. This thing should go pretty fast right?
_________________________________________________________________
Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live
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--- Begin Message ---
At 05:42 PM 1/8/2007, Tim Gamber wrote:
i was just looking at the thundersky website and they have a Li-ion
battery that is perfect an electric motorcycle i might build. It is
a 3.2 volt 80 AH battery. I was thinking of using 22 of these
batteries in series to make about 72 volts and 80 AH pack. They can
dish out up to 400 amps.
Maybe, the old ones sure didn't.
On there website it also said that their batteries costed $0.16 per
WH so this means 72volts*80AH=5760WH
5760WH*$0.16=$922. Is this right?
Yup, for Quantity 1,000,000 units or so. Or the used the wrong units.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 8, 2007, at 11:21 AM, Roger Stockton wrote:
Michaela Merz wrote:
I was wondering if there might be a way to have a PWM circuit
to reduce load, giving me the opportunity to turn the fan lower.
Any help or idea is appreciated.
If you don't decide to just get a factory control unit from a wrecker,
etc., you could put a simple circuit together based on the TI/Burr
Brown
DRV-101/DRV-102 IC (available in a 7-lead TO220 package). Both are
available from DigiKey.
It looks like this got you thinking too Roger :-) The first thought in
my head was that PWMing the heater fan would be more efficient than
using a resistor controller. In the whole scheme of EV propulsion 12
volts loads are under the radar (range change measured in feet.)
However, plenty of the home built EVs don't have a terribly large DC to
DC converter (they have what will work and is easily available off the
shelf.) Saving 12 volt power does have value in this case.
Well, at least in my opinion. I'm with Plasma Boy on this - the 12 volt
system is one of those places where EVs **can be better than ICEs. Its
unfortunate when an EVer can't seize the positive potential (I will
note that even John has fought with this in the White Zombie.)
This falls to the question - what would it take to have affordable
DC>DC converters in the 60 to 100 amp range? There are issues - input
voltages, output currents, and small number of customers.
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm stunned you have space under the hood after a
Kostov and 192V. Must be using AGM batteries.
I think that in order to sell, you might want to have
Mike Chancey (www.evalbum.com) set up a page, because
people will want to confirm that you are using AGM
batteries; do they have regulators on them?; who made
your DCDC converter?; did you beef up the suspension
yet?; vacuum pump on the brakes? circuit breaker?
charger? Weight distribution on the batteries? Did
you save the back seat? Hatch/sedan?
Best to you as you sell.
Sincerely,
--- Neil Wicai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, Group.
>
> I started my 1990 Honda Civic conversion in the mid
> 1990's and it's about
> 90% complete. I am moving and have decided to let
> go of the project. It's a
> 192 volt system with a Kostov motor and Grizzly
> controller. Just about all
> components are purchased except the batteries.
>
> If anyone is interested please contact me off line
> at my e-mail below.
>
>
> Neil
>
> Neil P. Wicai, Survey Sales Representative
> Surveyors Service Company - New Mexico
> (505) 345-1097 (Office)
> (800) 938-0609 (Toll Free)
> (505) 345-3499 (Fax)
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Sorry about attachment not aware attachments were not allowed, the diagram
was of circuitry using GE EV1 SCR tm controller will be greatful if someone
could help with this.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Moyes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:29 PM
Subject: A down under newby help..
-----
Please help if you can,
Attached is the wiring diagram for the above controller in a Crown fork
lift
opperating two Prestolte 48 volt 6.7" motors.
I wish to fit both in a VW Beatle with this controller. What would be
its
safe opperating range, volts and amps?
Would it be possible for anybody to advise how this wiring diagram needs
to
be modified to work with the two motors in a VW beatle?
Any other information you may feel helpful would be appreciated.
Yours faithfully ,
Don Moyes
South Australia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
Tim:
The new batteries look good, but contact me off line re, Thunder Sky.
/Bob
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Jan 8, 2007, at 5:42 PM, Tim Gamber wrote:
i was just looking at the thundersky website and they have a Li-ion
battery that is perfect an electric motorcycle i might build. It is
a 3.2 volt 80 AH battery. I was thinking of using 22 of these
batteries in series to make about 72 volts and 80 AH pack. They can
dish out up to 400 amps. At 72 volts this would equate to about 37
HP!. The pack would also only weigh 120 pounds. Not sure what range
i would get with these, maybe about 30 miles with these batteries
driven conservativly. On there website it also said that their
batteries costed $0.16 per WH so this means 72volts*80AH=5760WH
5760WH*$0.16=$922. Is this right? thats awful cheap for that much
capacity... I was also planning on using a pmg 132 and altrax 72
volt 450 amp controller for the conversion. This thing should go
pretty fast right?
_________________________________________________________________
Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with
Windows Live Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For a 10MPH scooter, I assume you have a 12V system. With these you can
often get by in overvolting by 6V... w/o a lot of extra work or expense. You
simply wire it for 12V or 18V... with a switch on your handlebars to cut in
the extra batt in series.
Start out on 12V until you get nearly up to speed, let off the accelerator,
switch to 18V, and you can get up to 50% greater speed. If you start off at
18V you might toast the controller, but many scoots can handle the extra
power used in that manner. Oh, and you will gain some extra range to boot.
(Of course, you'd need a 2nd charger.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "BFRListmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: Battery Beach ScooterCross
> I'm getting the feeling that my 10mph scooter won't be competitive. Guess
> you don't get much for free these days. OK. Guess I just need to double
> the voltage and ice down the motor.
>
>
> Darin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's also around the time (1920's) they started killing the electric
trolley lines... but it was some time before they were convicted of it. They
spent millions, but a "friendly" judge only fined them $1000. (As I recall,
one each of the tire, fuel and truck manufacturers were also in on this
scam.)
They spent billions (adjusted for inflation) but had a way to pay for it.
Opel was building fleets of trucks for the Nazis (w/ US corporate support).
Opel was taken as a tax write off... then GM collected again after the war
for damage to their plants. A little triple dipping, to pay for forcing
Americans to become dependent on oil.
> I know I've said this before, but...
> GM's killing of electrics goes back even 2 decades further.
> In Feb. 1923, GM purchased the Milburn Wagon Works, which had been for 8
> years building the Milburn Light Electric line of vehicles (over 5000 EVs
> produced) and had built carriages since the mid 1800's. Milburn had been
> building building car bodies for GM prior to the purchase. Within 2
months,
> GM converted the main plant to a Buick manufacturing plant, then sold off
> the remains of Milburn Light Electric to a local investor who supposedly,
> maybe, kept producing Milburns at another Toledo plant...but there are no
> Milburns known to have been produced in 1924, so effectively, GM killed
the
> Milburn Light Electric in 1923.
>
> -Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am pretty sure that Darin from
http://www.badfishracing.net can handle overvolting a
scooter. :-)
--- Michael Perry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> For a 10MPH scooter, I assume you have a 12V system.
> With these you can
> often get by in overvolting by 6V... w/o a lot of
> extra work or expense. You
> simply wire it for 12V or 18V... with a switch on
> your handlebars to cut in
> the extra batt in series.
>
> Start out on 12V until you get nearly up to speed,
> let off the accelerator,
> switch to 18V, and you can get up to 50% greater
> speed. If you start off at
> 18V you might toast the controller, but many scoots
> can handle the extra
> power used in that manner. Oh, and you will gain
> some extra range to boot.
> (Of course, you'd need a 2nd charger.)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "BFRListmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 1:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Battery Beach ScooterCross
>
>
> > I'm getting the feeling that my 10mph scooter
> won't be competitive. Guess
> > you don't get much for free these days. OK.
> Guess I just need to double
> > the voltage and ice down the motor.
> >
> >
> > Darin
>
>
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Yeah. That comes with Li-Fe cells. Thou price is wrong. Such price could
be achieved with 200 000 000 Ah order and if made in continous process.
I've seen from various suppliers prices for unmatched cells without
warranty 1.5 to 1.9 USD/Ah = 450-600 USD/kWh.
And then you just need to find out the proper way to manage them +
shipping + extra cells if there is too big variance between cells in
pack. :) Not the easiest thing to do. Sure.. you can do supervicing
circuitry and LFP cells won't burn unless you really really try. but to
get the lifetime up to there where it should be...
You can get power and cycles out of them. For onetime conversion I would
suggest to go for Li-Mn (LMP-cells). Those have better voltage and you
need only 20 cells. 80 AH cell is there too. Those cells have less
material cost than LFP or LCP.
LMP-30 cells can push 325 A and stay above 2.5 V . For longer lifetime
you should stay below 5-6 C .
-Jukka
p.s.-Really.. the group buy was lifetime ago. It's a completely new
situation now. There is lot's of succesfull implementation too. Bad news
just are faster then good ones.
Tim Gamber kirjoitti:
i was just looking at the thundersky website and they have a Li-ion
battery that is perfect an electric motorcycle i might build. It is a
3.2 volt 80 AH battery. I was thinking of using 22 of these batteries in
series to make about 72 volts and 80 AH pack. They can dish out up to
400 amps. At 72 volts this would equate to about 37 HP!. The pack would
also only weigh 120 pounds. Not sure what range i would get with these,
maybe about 30 miles with these batteries driven conservativly. On there
website it also said that their batteries costed $0.16 per WH so this
means 72volts*80AH=5760WH 5760WH*$0.16=$922. Is this right? thats
awful cheap for that much capacity... I was also planning on using a pmg
132 and altrax 72 volt 450 amp controller for the conversion. This thing
should go pretty fast right?
_________________________________________________________________
Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows
Live Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim Gamber wrote:
Can someone please explain very simply the purpose of a precharge
circuit with a lightbulb in it to me. Also how can it be easily
disconected so that you wont blow up the bulbs? Do you have to use
precharge circuit everytime you fire you EV up?
Sure! Controllers (and other devices, like power supplies and DC/DC
converters) have large input filter capacitors. When they are off, the
capacitors will discharge to 0 volts. When you first turn them on, the
capacitors look like a dead short! Whatever switch or connector is used
to connect the power has to carry a tremendous surge of current to
charger those capacitors. This surge is very hard on things.
A "precharge" circuit is any circuit designed to let these capacitors
charge more slowly, so you don't get these high peak currents.
The simplest and cheapest precharge circuit is a resistor in series with
the power source. This is what is used in 99% of consumer items; all
your TVs, computers, microwaves, etc. have them. It is usually a
temperature dependent resistor (called a surge suppressor) that has a
high resistance when cold, and a low resistance when hot. The problem
with this approach is that it has low efficiency; that resistor is
always there, always hot, and wasting power.
In EVs, we are more concerned about efficiency. So, the precharge
circuits are more complicated. They are still often a resistor (or light
bulb :-) but the circuit has additional parts to switch it out of the
circuit once it is no longer needed. That's what all these relays and
switches people are talking about are doing.
Does this help?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim Gamber wrote:
I was just wondering why some people say you need to have the circuit
breaker in your car on a certain side of the battery pack. Would it
matter? Can i use a circuit breaker on each side of my pack to
disconnect it completly while charging? Also how many contacters do i
need and where in the car?
Technically, you can break a circuit anywhere. It's just that some
locations may be easier, or better than others in certain circumstances.
If the circuit breaker is to be in the front for easy access, it's
convenient to have it break a wire that's already in the front.
If you want to kill power in an electrical box so you can work on it,
the circuit breaker needs to be put in the wires that power that box.
If you have a non-isolated charger, it's best to break both sides of the
pack, so the battery pack is completely isolated from the rest of the
vehicle. Otherwise, leakage paths to ground in (for example) a wet motor
could create a shock hazard.
The number of contactors needed depends on what they need to. If all you
need is on/off, a single contactor may do. If you need to isolate the
pack (see above), you may need two. If you want to electrically reverse
the motor, you need an additional 1 or 2. If you have a contactor
controller that rearranges the batteries in series or parallel groups,
you need more yet.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:27 PM 1/8/2007, Jukka Järvinen wrote:
You can get power and cycles out of them. For
onetime conversion I would suggest to go for
Li-Mn (LMP-cells). Those have better voltage and
you need only 20 cells. 80 AH cell is there too.
Those cells have less material cost than LFP or LCP.
LMP-30 cells can push 325 A and stay above 2.5 V
. For longer lifetime you should stay below 5-6 C .
So, are there any prices available on these?
-Jukka
p.s.-Really.. the group buy was lifetime ago.
It's a completely new situation now. There is
lot's of succesfull implementation too. Bad news
just are faster then good ones.
And Exceptionally BAD service experiences will
stay with a companies reputation for YEARS.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am by no means an expert, but I have recently learned a little and this my
understanding of it.
The precharge resistor (or lightbulb) is there to prevent the large initial
current spike which would otherwise occur when you turn on the key.
Limiting the initial current serves to prevent unnecessary wear on two
important components. One is the delicate and expensive capacitors in the
controller. And two, is the main contactor. You probably don't want to
have to replace the controller and you definitely don't want to find that
the contactor has welded itself closed when you need it open.
You put the precharge resistor or lightbulb across the main contactor. This
slows the inrush of current when you first connect it. But if you are
shorting across the contactor that means that the controller is connected to
the battery pack even while charging. Since the charger puts out more than
the nominal voltage of the battery pack, this voltage could be higher than
the rating of the controller. In any case, it is not necessary to subject
the controller to the charger's voltage since you never use both at the same
time. So you put a switch in series with the resistor. But you want to
close the switch without bringing the full pack voltage into the passenger
compartment. So you use a relay instead. But now you have to remember to
close that relay and wait a few seconds before closing the contactor every
time. So you make the relay close automatically when it senses that the
precharge is complete by wiring the input across the controller input (B+ to
B-).
I'm not entirely clear on why some people use a lightbulb instead of a fixed
resistor, but I assume the lightbulb's resistance characteristics make it a
good choice.
I don't think the light bulb would blow up even if it were left connected,
as current only flows through it for a few seconds while precharging and
once the main contactor is closed, it is essentially out of the circuit.
Yes, in normal use, you would use the precharge circuit every time you "fire
up" your EV.
Bruce
Tim Gamber wrote:
> Can someone please explain very simply the purpose of a precharge circuit
> with a lightbulb in it to me. Also how can it be easily disconected so
that
> you wont blow up the bulbs? Do you have to use precharge circuit
everytime
> you fire you EV up?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Re: Chevy VOLT
Seems a 40 mile range is ok if it is associated with an ICE. Lawrence
Rhodes.........
This looks to me like the plug in hybrid we've been asking for. I've been
hearing from ev folks that 40 mile range would be adequate for 90% of the trips
made. The ICE takes care of the other 10%. My wife claims that my electric
Samurai isn't a car, its a hobby. No matter how much range you build into it,
there are going to be times it isn't enough. 30-40 miles seems to be a good
compromise.
It seems to me that this is a better, less complicated solution to the hybrid
than the Prius. Since the ICE could be set up for constant speed, it could run
even cleaner than those in most autos.
The electric car is fun, but when you misguestimate your range and can't quite
make it home you do note a certain deficiency in the concept. It is a way to
make new friends when you ask to borrow a kilowatt or so, but it is a bit of
an awkward and time consuming situation.
I'm not going to buy a new car until a PIH is available. If GM will build it,
I'd buy it. It sounds perfect to me.
storm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe a having a light associated with starting an EV serves a secondary
purpose, it might help us develop a new set of vocabulary terms like in stead
of saying fire it up say, light it up. Just as we have replaced gas pedal
with accelerator and instead of rev-it-up we have amp-it-up etc
I'm not entirely clear on why some people use a lightbulb instead of a fixed
resistor, but I assume the lightbulb's resistance characteristics make it a
good choice.
Yes, in normal use, you would use the precharge circuit every time you "fire
up" your EV.
Bruce
check out my blog:
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
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--- Begin Message ---
Unless I am mistaken, this item for sale on eBay appears to be a patent for
perpetual motion:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120072860714
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--- Begin Message ---
Looks like the original MSRP for a Toyota RAV4 EV was a worthwhile investment:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110076153173
Isn't that about $20-30K ROI in 4 years?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm guessing he is testing the theory that the oil companies will purchase
anything that might impact their strangle hold on us. I hope he can con those
idiots.
Bob
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Unless I am mistaken, this item for sale on eBay appears to be a patent for
perpetual motion:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120072860714
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Martin,
I checked and you >can< vote repeatedly.
It went up 3798 - 3799 - 3800 - 3801.
Apparently the invalid votes are when
someone forgets to select yes or no,
when clicking "Submit your vote".
Still 99% wants GM to build it and 98%
thinks about buying one...
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Martin K
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 3:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Chevy VOLT
When I voted it said "1006 valid votes" or some such statement,
indicating that they were not counting people repeatedly voting (as far
as they can tell)
--
Martin K
Roderick Wilde wrote:
> That doesn't say much for their web masters does it! You would think
> they could afford better.
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jukka Järvinen"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 4:38 AM
> Subject: Re: Chevy VOLT
>
>
>> Did you notice you can vote as many timeas as you wish ? :) Let's
>> make BEV's popular and very interesting thing.
>>
>> -Jukka
>>
>>
>> Mike Willmon kirjoitti:
>>> Cor,
>>> I followed up my e-mail with the reply below. It just hasn't made
>>> it yet. I suspect if they don't want to build them they will
>>> continue with the "batteries are not there yet" excuse; no matter
>>> what their poll says. It is public however so this bodes well
>>> for the message. However I kinda think they can't afford to miss
>>> the boat this time. But I still don't think they care about an
>>> oil free or pollution free interest.
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Mike Willmon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 12:07 AM
>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>> Subject: RE: Chevy VOLT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I stand corrected, they do show the results.
>>>> I voted Yes and Yes BTW...weelll I would consider it.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/618 - Release Date: 1/6/2007
>>
>>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I suggest that EVDL members use prudence in this thread.
If one has a bad experience with an organization or company in the EV
community, it can be a good thing to discuss it here. We've had several
such exchanges and I support them 100% as long as they're limited to
verifiable, factual statements. (Think "Ebay feedback. ;-)
Remember, gang, this is a public forum. When you're in a public forum,
speculative statements, accusatory comments, or hearsay can have legal
consequences for you.
Mailing lists and forums may seem as if they're anonymous, but they're not.
Your words are yours, and they're archived in several different places on
the web. Once you send a message to this list, it's writ large for all the
world to see and the letters cannot be painted out.
As always, before hitting "send," ask yourself if you'd like a prospective
employer or mate, or for that matter your best friend or worst enemy, to
read what you've just written - because they certainly can and will.
In this case I'm also concerned that we could see the thread turn into a
flame war between people defending two different sides in a controversy.
That would be bad for those taking part and worse for the entire EVDL. Easy
there ...
I'm not going to say "take this thread offline," but I would ask everyone to
consider the value >>to the EVDL as a whole<< of discussing this issue
online. Personally, I think the safest approach is to stick to quoting the
news media (if anything at all), and let the Washington state legal system
deal with this matter in its own ways.
Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8 Jan 2007 at 22:11, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Looks like the original MSRP for a Toyota RAV4 EV was a worthwhile investment:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110076153173
>
No takers yet at that price. We'll see on the 17th of January. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Many Thanks to Rodric Wilde, and his POST on the GM-Web Cast. It was
18 minutes of pure ...what I have been hoping to hear for 15 years.
http://www.gm.com/company/gm_exp_live/events/naias_2007/index_flash.html?navID=3.0.1.1
Too bad I am of near retirement age now... NOW that GM, who we were
associated with (through our GMC dealership ) for 45 years...
Finally.... ( Maybe....) has seen the LIGHT.
There are several other worthy ( but shorter) videos you can all enjoy
by merely typing into google VIDEO.... ( GM VOLT )
They are all worth seeing... especially the cut-a-ways of the vehicle
architecture, and interviews with designers and engineers, ets...
I DO HAVE O N E PROBLEM... however... there is this video clip
of a gal pulling the Chevy VOLT out of a garage, un-plugging it, and
driving away down the street AS IF SHE IS IN A NEV WITH dead
batteries... and a lot of gear noise too... This is NOT good PR !!!
She should have accelerated out of the garage, as if Roderic was driving
his Maniac Mazda...!!!!!!!!11
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It did not sell for that price, there are zero bids.
Hey, I could list my truck for $100,000. Maybe someone likes it...
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RAV4 EV for $72K
Looks like the original MSRP for a Toyota RAV4 EV was a worthwhile
investment:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110076153173
Isn't that about $20-30K ROI in 4 years?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Think about it:
The tremendous successful and shaming-all-US-automakers Prius
from Toyota was kick-started because of rumors and announcements
by US law makers and US car manufacturers, so Toyota was afraid
they would be too late if they did not quickly allocate a good
team of engineers to develop clean car technology.
GM c.s. succeeded in killing the EV mandate eventually, while
Toyota successfully rolled out the Hybrid cars....
Today we have a new ZEV mandate by CARB (for California and 10
other states) also allowing requirements for PZEVs, such as
Hybrids. US car makers are showing prototypes of cars that
could become available in 3 to 5 years....
What would happen if GM did NOT pursue their electric drivetrain?
Yep - Toyota is approximately on par with GM as biggest car maker
so with a new mistake from GM, Toyota could be the world leader
in car manufacturing and give all gas guzzler builders their niche.
I have the feeling that GM cannot afford to make the same mistake.
Also I doubt that the CARB mandate will be killed again.
Time will tell, as always. We live in interesting times.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Willmon
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 1:50 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Chevy VOLT
Cor,
I followed up my e-mail with the reply below. It just hasn't made it yet.
I suspect if they don't want to build them they will
continue with the "batteries are not there yet" excuse; no matter what their
poll says. It is public however so this bodes well
for the message. However I kinda think they can't afford to miss the boat
this time. But I still don't think they care about an
oil free or pollution free interest.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Willmon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 12:07 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Chevy VOLT
>
>
> I stand corrected, they do show the results.
> I voted Yes and Yes BTW...weelll I would consider it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I suggest that EVDL members use prudence in this thread.
If one has a bad experience with an organization or company in the EV
community, it can be a good thing to discuss it here. We've had several
such exchanges and I support them 100% as long as they're limited to
verifiable, factual statements. (Think "Ebay feedback. ;-)
Remember, gang, this is a public forum. When you're in a public forum,
speculative statements, accusatory comments, or hearsay can have legal
consequences for you.
Mailing lists and forums may seem as if they're anonymous, but they're not.
Your words are yours, and they're archived in several different places on
the web. Once you send a message to this list, it's writ large for all the
world to see and the letters cannot be painted out.
As always, before hitting "send," ask yourself if you'd like a prospective
employer or mate, or for that matter your best friend or worst enemy, to
read what you've just written - because they certainly can and will.
In this case I'm also concerned that we could see the thread turn into a
flame war between people defending two different sides in a controversy.
That would be bad for those taking part and worse for the entire EVDL. Easy
there ...
I'm not going to say "take this thread offline," but I would ask everyone to
consider the value >>to the EVDL as a whole<< of discussing this issue
online. Personally, I think the safest approach is to stick to quoting the
news media (if anything at all), and let the Washington state legal system
deal with this matter in its own ways.
Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And only $10 million starting bid, what a deal!
Tilley of the Tilley Electric Vehicle scam (recharges itself as you
drive through unspecified means, allowing infinite range) may have been
a slimeball- but at least he put a lot of work into his scam.
Danny
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Unless I am mistaken, this item for sale on eBay appears to be a patent for
perpetual motion:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120072860714
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.fraunhofer.de/fhg/EN/press/pi/2006/12/ResearchNews12-2006-Topic4.jsp
As fast as a shark in water
With the help of tiny ridge-like structures in their scales, sharks
are able to minimize drag when swimming. A new coating system takes
advantage of this “riblet effect” to improve the aerodynamics of
vehicles and aircraft.
Scales have a beneficial effect on the speed at which fish swim: tiny
ridges arranged parallel to the swimming direction, known as
“riblets”, reduce drag in water. This riblet effect, which has been
known to scientists and engineers for more than 50 years, can also be
utilized by ships and other means of transport: Films with a suitable
structure can be applied to their outer surfaces to reduce frictional
resistance and thus bring down fuel consumption.
The problem is that these films can only be applied to flat or convex
surfaces, but bodies whose aerodynamic or hydrodynamic properties
have been optimized tend to have a more complex shape. The
alternative to coating with a film is to texture the surface itself
with riblets. However, none of the laser or milling techniques which
have been employed so far are suitable for components that have to be
painted, as the paint would immediately flow into the tiny grooves
and fill them.
Dr. Volkmar Stenzel of the Fraunhofer Institute for Manufacturing
Engineering and Applied Materials Research IFAM thus came up with the
idea of integrating the riblet pattern into the lacquer itself. “That
meant we had to look for a tool which didn’t adhere to the lacquer,
so that it could impress the required structure onto it,” explains
Stenzel. A prototype has now been created, combining a suitable
lacquer and the technology for applying it. The novelty is that an
approximately 20 cm wide transparent silicone film with a riblet
pattern serves as a “stamp”. This is capable of printing patterns
with a resolution of a few nanometers, similar to those found in
holograms, onto surfaces. The film runs over three flexible rollers
and can thus adapt its shape to hug uneven surfaces. From the front,
a new type of resin lacquer is continuously sprayed onto the film and
transferred with the help of the rollers onto the surface to be
treated. A UV lamp then hardens the resin in a fraction of a second.
Because of the extremely fast application and hardening process, the
riblet structure is retained.
“Our trial lacquer is based on the chemistry used in aviation paints.
It is mechanically very durable and,” Stenzel hopes, “should also be
resistant to strong UV radiation at high altitude.” A field trial
will soon show whether the lacquer fulfills its promise in practice.
However, applications for the new coating system are not restricted
to the aviation industry, as Stenzel stresses: “With this technology
we can apply any other micro and nano structures to lacquered
surfaces.”
--- End Message ---
