EV Digest 6303
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Elcat EV's for Sale
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Drive a Trolley (was: Lisbon Electric Trolley Pictures) and E trains.
an' Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Left Coast Conversions?
by "Matthew Drobnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: PWM Module for fan
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Drive a Trolley (was: Lisbon Electric Trolley Pictures)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: [EV] RE: PWM Module for fan
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Rev Counter
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) RE: [EV] RE: PWM Module for fan
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Drive a Trolley (was: Lisbon Electric Trolley Pictures) and E
trains. an' Stuff
by "Michael A. Radtke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Garden tractor question or DC/AC yet again
by Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) newbie question re etek/curtis combo
by Green VW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Aluminum battery chemistry
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: GVWR limitation for EV conversions, Comments
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Aluminum battery chemistry
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Aluminum battery chemistry
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Aluminum battery chemistry
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: BBS?
by "David Hrivnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Garden tractor question or DC/AC yet again
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Left Coast...
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Stan Ovshinsky
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Promised technology ( was Re: Solar Cell prices
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Aviation batteries
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: GVWR limitation for EV conversions in Canada
by "Darin - MetroMPG.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: BBS?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) RE: Stan Ovshinsky
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Well.. It is a robust vehicle. Most of the service expences will be
generated by the gasoline heter. Service is quite easy and the
components are reliable.
thou I got rid of most of thise parts.. :) Had to upgrade it a bit.
see: www.evalbum.com
Can't remember the number of it. Web is horrible slow here in China.
My Elcat still has the original motor, gear box and differential. It
has McPhearson suspension.
The item on Ebay is brand new. So it is NEW OEM EV ! Price high ? gosh...
It has a Curtis controller originally which was about 450 A 78V. I
drive the motor now with 140 V and 750A. Clutch has been crying lately
so directdrive setup with even higher voltage will be installed.
But.. Even it is possible to blow it to high way speeds the
aerodynamics will be a big problem. You really need the whole road to
keep it on it. At 88 mph it really takes you to near death experience.
Collision zone is about 1 feet in the front. The excitement can change
to horror in a blink of an eye if you're cought by hefty side wind...
BUT it IS an in town car and excellent one of those. I love it. I
bought another one just for my own joy. I'm upgrading it with 400/600
Ah Lithium. (have not yet decided which batts will be thrown in). At
least 80 volts it will be for sure.
If you have a choice to buy one I can recommend. It's a bargain. I
have driven over 20 000 miles with same brushes. They still were in
good shape. Unfortunately I managed to burn that motor by pushing 1000
Zilla Amps through it and forgot to reconnect the cooler cables. A
shame, whatta shame...
There will be Lithium upgrade kit for it as soon as I get it
integrated to the vehicles own charger. It's a bit tricky thing and
since I'm doing that as hobby timetable is unclear even to me. New
1kUSD charger can be of course purchased too to hasten the process.
But then existing one will need to come out.
Elcat has it's main componenes installed in one black box at the rear
end of the car. On the same lid that provided service hatch for ICE.
It's nicely covered. Motor is mounted on the old ICE location leaving
the gearbox and other parts of drive train intact. A simple and
effective solution.
If you have a doubt you can also see the vid on my home site. Should I
Tube it ? www.fevt.com/Videos/IVO_burnout.MPG
Whatta Roarrr this cat is indeed...
-Jukka
p.s.- Been driving last few days with 52 seater 40 feet Lithium EV
bus... A nice change for Elcat :)
Lainaus Geoff Linkleter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
UK listers might be interested in the attached:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Elcat-Cityvan-202P-Electric-Vehicle_W0QQitemZ270078215340QQihZ017QQcategoryZ123878QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Looks expensive to me, but if you follow the links you will also
find there are some second hand ones for sale.
There are also a number for sale missing components.
I am not familiar with the ev side of these vehicles. Would any of
the Finnish listers like to talk us through the motor / controller /
battery arrangements (DC with regen?). What are the strong / weak
points. Will the motor / controller stand a battery voltage upgrade
to increase performance?
Geoff
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Derrick J Brashear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: Drive a Trolley (was: Lisbon Electric Trolley Pictures)
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2007, Michael A. Radtke wrote:
>
> > Bill etc.,
> >
> > Nice pictures. It's been a while since I rode those Lisbon trolleys,
> > but I rode the Warsaw trolleys in 2006.
> >
> > I suppose that trolleys are EVs and appropriate for discussion here.
> >
> > So, how many of you have driven one?
> Hi EVerybody;
Guilty! Have been a member of the Branford Trolley Museum since I was a
kid. That was after building a few electric wagons as a younger kid. Being
an incurable RR fan, to be able to go to a place that had OTHER guyz that
were trolley and RR fans was better than nervana for me! When yur a kid, you
pitch in and help , after all it IS a volunteer operation. If you are
useful, the older members will let you run a trolley a bit. These museum
operations often have a few miles of track to play on. You learn to run the
drum controllers with their series and parallel "Points" for a smooth ride
and the old "Lap" type brake valves to smoothly stop.To make a long story
short, for me it lead to an Engineer's position at Amtrak, as a midlife
career change, 20 years later. One of the long time museum members often
helped guyz get a job on the "Real" RR from Museum experiance. That's how I
got on the RR, did 30 years there, Amtrak was a lot of fun, as a place to
work.RR guyz are alot like EV guys, in some ways. You have to love trains to
be willing to put up with the RR's 24/7 schedule, figure on training EVERY
holiday and Bad weather! But they DO pay you for all the fun<g>!A decent
wage, and bennies, medical, and retirement!Toward the end of my tenure I had
5 week vacations, enough to drive out to Woodburn EVery year, and a decent
pick of runs, seniority wise.And to pick on the equipment they were junking,
for EV parts! A Budd RDC Air conditioner contacter served well in my Rabbit
as a line switch!If you ever trained between NYC and Boston in the last few
years, I might have been pulling for you?
All this RR experiance and the coolness of Electric RR stuff, stop by,
see my book and Vid collection, got me into road EV's. A Electric
"Buckboard" in VietNam, a Roadable NEV in Taiwan, I spread the EV fun
whereEVer I went.
Shameless plug here. RR museums are looking for a few good men, and
women, get out and join, volunter your services in the shops or on the
road.We often come up short for trolley crews in the summer, or in a Steam
outfit, same issue. Recreational Railroading nowadaze is BIG Time! After
all, kids nowadaze won't even KNOW why a steam engine chuffs" I Think I Can
I Think I can" Offset, a tad, rods, cranks, so it can't stop on dead center
and not be able to START again, an affrunt to any engineer's pride!Now us
old farts knew this all the time?The popular Christmass Movie " Polar
Express" catches a bit of the Steamer magic. But you DON'T steer a steamer
with the throttle and brake!<g>! Seeing it with the RR giyz we would
jokingly point out the safety violations being portrayed, like riding on the
roof, for starters. but it is a beautiful little film. "You have to believe"
the theme of it.The folks that made that film had to go to a RR museum to
get ideas as top what a steamer LOOKED like, sounds it makes, and other
effects like what does it sound like top slide down a coal pile as a kid, in
the tender? Go rent it and enjoy the magic! No the coaches don't bend around
the tight curves, ether<g>!
To me it's 'way cool that racers like John Wayland are discovering 19th
century RR tech in their racers, like series parallelling motors field
shunting, brush shifting, a sport done in the FIRST streetcars, and why the
driver was called a "Motorman" HE tended the motor, shifting the brush
timing to control direction and how much the motor arced while going. Not to
mention the "armstrong " hand brakes, and doing this in city traffic!The
motor was on the front"porch" of the trolley, chain driven to the lead axle.
We have a few examples in our collection.Technology changed at breathtaking
speeds back then from a curiosity to a people mover, big time. You should
see how a 15 bench open trolley can swallow up crowds of humanity! By 1900 a
trolley was a perfected thing. RR, heavy, was progressing too. Here's why
tough laws, like in NYC, the CITY outlawed Steam lokies in the city.
Possably infulinced by a few nasty rear enders, because the engineers
couldn't see the signals through the smoke.This is why the RR's embraced
electrification at the turn of the century.Grand Central and Penn Station
would not have been possable without electrics, both lokies and MU cars.
Good laws can save lives and promote the general welfare, like CARB TRIED to
do? If it wasn't for safety laws we would ALL be driving around with single
cylinder master brake cylinders!they came out NOT that long ago.Non locking
ABS brakes? We had them on the RR since the 30's, on the new streemliners,
but not on freight equipment.
I'm getting carried away a bit, most anything out here for EV's is
really new. RR's have been developing along the EV thing for us. New stuff
regen's right back in the overhead wire. A nice touch!As it did on DC
systems at the turn of the LAST century.You folks had the Milwaukee Road
electirification, 100 years ago, gone now EVen the RR is gone!E power right
to Seattle.They never FINISHED it all the way east.I don't think they got to
Portland, though?
OK enough off trak on trak!
Seeya on the train?
To BBB, EVen
Bob>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Anyone know what's going on with them? I saw the website about a month or
two ago, and now it's parked by godaddy.com....Is Gadget still doing
conversions?
-Matt
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--- Begin Message ---
Paul G. wrote:
> This market split I referred to gets wider :-)
>
> You would be happy with the DC>DC keeping up *most* of the
> time and the voltage wandering down below 13 volts the rest
> of the time.
No, not necessarily. I am asking *you* if 100A is really a realistic
continuous 12V system load. I've seen the 100A value bandied about by
others on the basis that if an ICE vehicle is equipped with a 100A
alternator, then we should be installing 100A DC/DCs. I don't have
personal experience with vehicles with 100A level 12V loads, so my
question is really if it makes sound sense to pay for 100A of continuous
DC/DC capability if the reality is that this value really represents a
peak or worst-case load condition that might seldom, if ever, be
encountered.
> I'm viewing the EV as having an edge in this
> area - the 12v system doesn't need to sag at all (you may
> recognize this idea from a friend of mine :-)
Yes, John does have very persuasive views on the subject! ;^>
But, bear in mind that he also doesn't have an EV that requires 100A of
DC/DC to keep a nice stiff 12V rail. I think even in Blue Meanie he has
run "just" a pair of Todds for perhaps 60-80A of DC/DC.
> I want the 12 volt system voltage up without the ICE "idle sag" or
> worse. You seem more interested in packaged for outdoor environment.
Well, I'd rather pay $1200 up front for an appropriate part and not get
stranded than to pay $600 now, go through the hassle of being stranded
and then having to spend another $600 to replace the dead Iota's anyway.
> I'm thinking I can provide trailer home level protection to save
> money. You seem to be thinking along the lines of having only 30
> amps to save money.
Hmmm... I think you are getting the two of us mixed up ;^> I have
access to 1kW DC/DC capability at a very reasonable price, should I want
it, so I'm not really concerned with cost at all (my employer's sealed
1kW chargers eat DC happily, and I have the ability to reprogram them
for whatever output voltage and behaviour I want; unfortunately the
general public doesn't have this option). It wasn't my suggestion that
this level of DC/DC is either not available at any cost, or not at a
cost people are willing to bear.
You've noted that a pair of Iota's will do the job for about $600,
provided the pack voltage is a good match for their input range. If it
isn't, then MetricMind has some very capable units: BNW41x, 80A cont,
125A pk, 125-370VDC in, $2470. Need more?, BSC524-12V, 180A cont, 250A
pk, 220-450VDC. Need less? There's a 600W (35A) model for $631. The
MetricMind units are suited for the automotive environment, but carry a
heftier pricetag; either way, the components are available to achieve
the performance you want, it is just a matter of one needing to decide
how much they are willing to spend on a detail that might not be
noticed/appreciated by anyone other than JW or yourself ;^>
At the higher voltage end of things, there appear to be fewer
off-the-shelf options that are well-suited to the automotive environment
other than the MetricMind offerings, however, at the lower voltage
levels, one can certainly parallel as many 30A SurePower DC/DCs at the
72/96V pack level, or ~25A Curtii at the 120/144V pack level, and have
the desired 12V capability in packaging suitable for the automotive
environment.
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
On 15 Jan 2007 at 10:25, Michael A. Radtke wrote:
> I suppose that trolleys are EVs and appropriate for discussion here.
Sparingly. ;-)
To determine the acceptability and appropriateness of something that's
moderately off topic, multiply the topicality factor by the inverse of the
controversy factor. Trolleys are low on the controversy factor, so ...
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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>
> No, not necessarily. I am asking *you* if 100A is really a realistic
> continuous 12V system load. I've seen the 100A value bandied about by
> others on the basis that if an ICE vehicle is equipped with a 100A
> alternator, then we should be installing 100A DC/DCs. I don't have
> personal experience with vehicles with 100A level 12V loads, so my
> question is really if it makes sound sense to pay for 100A of continuous
> DC/DC capability if the reality is that this value really represents a
> peak or worst-case load condition that might seldom, if ever, be
> encountered.
>
On this subject, I am converting a very simple car, that maybe needs
20 amps of electrical load on the 12v side tops.
Could I get away with a really small DC/DC and a small battery?
More like a trickle recharger than one sized for the load?
--
Eduardo K. | Roses are #FF0000
http://www.carfun.cl | Violets are #0000FF
http://e.nn.cl | All my base Are belong to you
http://ev.nn.cl |
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--- Begin Message ---
Just want to mention this wee project I tried with great success. Before
messing with motors and controllers it's handy to have a rev counter to make
sure you keep the speed to a safe level. I downloaded the PIC code for a neat
little setup from _www.josepino.com_ (http://www.josepino.com/) . I used the
second version, 0 - 9,999 rpm and used an infrared transmitter/detector pair
to detect a white patch on my rotating motor output plate. There's a bit of
flutter but only from my sensing device setup, the hardware and code work as
well as any professional device I've used before.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eduardo Kaftanski wrote:
> On this subject, I am converting a very simple car, that maybe needs
> 20 amps of electrical load on the 12v side tops.
>
> Could I get away with a really small DC/DC and a small battery?
> More like a trickle recharger than one sized for the load?
Yes, but... ;^>
If you need only 20A or so of 12V, then you are in an ideal position to
build an EV with a nice stiff 12V supply without breaking the bank, so I
definitely side with Paul that it is worthwhile doing so.
If you choose to go the trickle charge approach, you are pretty much
guaranteed that under almost all driving situations your 12V rail will
sag and performance of things like your wipers will be noticable
inferior to the ICE version's. The cost of a (perhaps 5A?) 'trickle
charge' level DC/DC (unless bought surplus) tends not to be much less
than the cost of a 'proper' unit, and you will need to leave it running
continuously (i.e. even while the vehicle is parked) to give it time to
refill the battery after each drive.
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Bob for taking the time to write about trains and trolleys. I
truly enjoyed it.
Mike
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I'm wanting to build a garden tractor for various jobs around my place. One
of it's jobs will be to provide a roving AC power supply, thus requiring an
inverter. Many of the donors I'm finding have a hydrostatic transmission,
which would seem to need only a contactor, not a controller. In light of these
conditions, is there any advantage to use AC motors (both traction and
implement) rather than DC? It would seem that at a minimum, the switching
would be a lot easier/cheaper. Motors may also be more readily available.
Thanks, Ken
---------------------------------
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
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--- Begin Message ---
I have been reading recent posts regarding the etek and curtis
controller combo. I am working on an electric motorcycle project which
uses an etek with an older golftech converted curtis 48v 450amp
controller and a Comet cvt style clutch. When releasing the throttle,
the belt stays engaged for a few seconds keeping the etek turning for a
few seconds on coast down. Do I need a freewheel diode? If i do, is
this added inline in the power cables or is this an internal
modification to the curtis? Does anyone know where to purchase what is
needed or in the case of an internal mod, does anyone know of a company
to make the modification?
thanks
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--- Begin Message ---
mol is short for mole. maybe you miss understood. I never stated molar
concentration anywhere in this article. I was stating the molar ratio for
this reaction. For every mole of flourine gas and two mols of lithium metal
two moles of electrons are produced.
From: Kenneth Dove <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Aluminum battery chemistry
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:43:09 -0500
Complicated?
Nobody will probly understand?
Impossible to understand?
I am not sure what a "mol" is, but a mole is the equivalent of Avogadro's
number of molecules of any given element. The following statement, "many
molecules or (mols) for short of electrons per mol" is nonsensical.
Electron availability is a function of the element in question and has
nothing to do with molar concentration.
I cannot recommend anyone contacting you in regards to chemistry related
questions.
Kenneth Dove
B.S. Pharmacy - The Ohio State University
Tim Gamber wrote:
The problem is not making electricity from aluminum the problem is finding
two metals... One has to be a strong reducing agent (lithium metal is the
strongest known) and one has to be a strong oxidizing agent (flourine gas
is the strongest known). This will determine voltage of the cell. Then you
also have to find a reaction that transfers many molocules or (mols) for
short of electrons per mol of reactants. This will determine your AH
rating. This figure does not relate to any one metal, but a combination of
any two metals. This is where it gets complicated... Nobody will probly
understand this but i will try to make it simple. As an example i am going
to use flourine gas and lithium metal. I don't want this to be impossble
to understand so i will just tell you the final equation.
F2(g) + 2Li(s) = 2F-(aq) + 2Li+(aq)
The numbers infront of the substances represent how many molucules of each
there are. As you can see after the reaction flourine becomes negative and
lithium becomes positive. Also flourine starts as a gas and then changes
into an aqeous ion. Lithium starts as a solid and changes into an aqeous
ion. 2 electrons are transfered in this reaction. If i wanted to reverse
this reaction i would need to overcome the voltage of this cell which is
5.91 volts. That means i would have to use at least 5.91 volts to make the
reaction go in the oposite direction.
Figuring this out isn't to hard, but the problem is reversing the reaction
safely and without producing a precipitate. If there are impuritys in the
reactants that can mess up the reaction and make a precipitate. Like in
the lead acid batery when you reverse and use the reactions many times the
reaction is not perfect and produces sulfate as a precipitate (sulfation)
and the battery continues to store less energy everytime you use it.
If you have anymore chemistry related questions email me at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Stuart
The factory Chevrolet S-10 EV and Ford Ranger EV both have the batteries in
trays mounted under the trucks.
The S-10 is a little lower than the Ranger and the batteries are all in the
center of the truck. It is a weird sensation but It corners like it is on
tracks.
The sacrifice is ease of access to the batteries. Other than that it is all
positive.
Don
1998 S-10EV
In a message dated 1/15/2007 9:52:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Thanks Dale and all the others who have provided comments.
I'm in Canada and was somewhat aware of the GVWR issue, which was the reason
for my main restriction based on weight. One specific question: Do you
know if you need to include a specific #kgs per seatbeat when you calculate
the legal payload for a vehicle, or can you simply use the weight of the
passengers that are actually using the vehicle?
Also, if I were to use a truck for conversion I was thinking of mounting
custom built battery boxes along the frame rather than put them in the cargo
bed. This would lower the center of gravity, distribute the front/back load
better, and allow the bed to be used for (light) loads. Do you think the
"powers that be" would consider the battery boxes on the frame an illegal
addition?
Thanks,
Stuart
From: "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: GVWR limitation for EV conversions, Comments
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:26:34 -0700
In Canada, you need to now stay below GVWR with passengers and payload. It
is no longer acceptable to put on better springs and a few better bits and
pieces and justify the reason for a higher GVWR without full recertification
of the vehicle. This law was changed fairly recently (2004 or 2005, I
think). Vehicle insurance is also void if you don't comply with the law.
That's what's keeping me from building my EV yet - so far my calculations
indicate that I can't keep below GVWR and get the range that I would like -
even using a lightweight brushless drive system. Lithiums are the only way I
can see pulling this off now.
Legally, in Canada, the weight of the EV drive system and batteries has to
be equal to the weight you take off by removing the ICE, fuel tank, and
whatever weight you can pull off. That is because the rated payload and
passenger weight ratings need to be respected unless you recertify your
vehicle.
It may be possible for a registered professional engineer to design/analyze
the components used and the conversion - Transport Canada may accept a
properly written-up report and issue a new sticker.
The reason for these new laws is not the stop EV's, but rather, to stop
people from overloading the remainder of the vehicle (brakes, tires) by
putting on large, heavy, accessories (like campers, or those industrial
service boxes). Basically you can't legally take a 1/2 ton truck and put a 2
ton box on the back.
-Dale
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--- Begin Message ---
look for yourself, here is the table of selected standard electrode
potentials
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Reduction-potentials2.PNG/260px-Reduction-potentials2.PNG
From: Sam Thurber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Aluminum battery chemistry
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 08:32:13 -0800 (PST)
Not to nit-pick but Lithium (after elemental hydrogen) is actually the
weakest reducing agent, Francium is the strongest. The larger the molecule,
the easier it is to lose it's lone electron in the outer shell, therfore
reducing agent's strength go from hydrogen to Francium. Oxidzer's on the
other hand want that last electron to complete their outer shell and their
reletave strength goes in the opposite direction with Astatine being the
weekest and Fluorine being the strongest.
http://www.corrosionsource.com/handbook/periodic/
Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The problem is not making electricity from aluminum the problem is
finding
two metals... One has to be a strong reducing agent (lithium metal is the
strongest known)
---------------------------------
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
_________________________________________________________________
Dont waste time standing in linetry shopping online. Visit Sympatico / MSN
Shopping today! http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes, this would extend battery life, i've seen manufactures advertise the
purity of lead in their battery.
From: Aaron Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Aluminum battery chemistry
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:29:15 -0600
On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 18:33 -0700, Tim Gamber wrote:
> Figuring this out isn't to hard, but the problem is reversing the
> reaction
> safely and without producing a precipitate. If there are impuritys in
> the
> reactants that can mess up the reaction and make a precipitate. Like
> in the
> lead acid batery when you reverse and use the reactions many times
> the
> reaction is not perfect and produces sulfate as a precipitate
> (sulfation)
> and the battery continues to store less energy everytime you use it.
This seems to indicate that if we created batteries that have no
impurities then the battery life would be increased. Is this the case?
Aaron
_________________________________________________________________
Your opinion matters. Please tell us what you think and be entered into a
draw for a grand prize of $500 or one of 20 $50 cash prizes.
http://www.youthographyinsiders.com/R.aspx?a=116
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--- Begin Message ---
you are thinking in terms of electronegitivity not electrode potentials...
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Aluminum battery chemistry
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 08:37:34 -0800
At 08:32 AM 1/14/2007, Sam Thurber wrote:
Not to nit-pick but Lithium (after elemental hydrogen) is actually the
weakest reducing agent, Francium is the strongest. The larger the
molecule, the easier it is to lose it's lone electron in the outer shell,
therfore reducing agent's strength go from hydrogen to Francium. Oxidzer's
on the other hand want that last electron to complete their outer shell
and their reletave strength goes in the opposite direction with Astatine
being the weekest and Fluorine being the strongest.
Hmm, sounds like a Fluorine/Francium battery could be, umm, exciting...
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
_________________________________________________________________
Buy, Load, Play. The new Sympatico / MSN Music Store works seamlessly with
Windows Media Player. Just Click PLAY.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As a possibility of BBS look at www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com. It is
normally updated within a minute of the post, much faster than this
list, it is well organized and easy to add topics.
They have a current topics list on the front page that shows the most
active discussions and then you can jump to the forums that are easy to
search. I would love it if there were a similar EV on line club. I am
willing to try and find more if you want. It is the best such
discussion site I have ever seen. Check it out.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 9:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BBS?
At 05:50 PM 1/14/2007, Brian M. Sutin wrote:
> > This listserv really should be changed over to a BBS. I think I'm
gonna
> > opt out given the volume to topic ratio without any way to
categorize
> > the topics.
>
>I agree. In fact, I would be happy to create to create a domain and
put
>up a forum, which would take a few days at most and cost nothing. On
the
>other hand, I suspect that many of the people who read this won't
switch
>over, and the only result would be to dilute the community. Unless the
You got it.
Lets see, I can have an Email list that comes to me as it happens,
OR a web forum that is slow, requires me to explicitly check things,
and will end up cluttered with lots of cute icons.
Which do you think I (and many others) would prefer?
Hint: Time is Precious
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had an EV Tractor that I had converted from an old Sears Tractor (free
tractor from my father)
I had a PM motor hooked up to 40 1.2 NiCad Cells and tied to the original
kholer shaft it turned the deck and hydrostatic transmision.
I used a three position switch to turn it on.
1) Off
2) Relay 1 On which had a resistor in series
3) Relay 2 On which with no resistor
Maybe $30s to switch on/off?
----- Original Message ----
From: Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 3:16:42 PM
Subject: Garden tractor question or DC/AC yet again
Hi all,
I'm wanting to build a garden tractor for various jobs around my place. One
of it's jobs will be to provide a roving AC power supply, thus requiring an
inverter. Many of the donors I'm finding have a hydrostatic transmission,
which would seem to need only a contactor, not a controller. In light of these
conditions, is there any advantage to use AC motors (both traction and
implement) rather than DC? It would seem that at a minimum, the switching
would be a lot easier/cheaper. Motors may also be more readily available.
Thanks, Ken
---------------------------------
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with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm sure some of you have noticed that the Left Coast
Conversions site is down. Things seldom go as smoothy
as planned. We are now Left Coast Electric inc. The
new site should be up in a week or so. We have changed
the name to reflect our broader vision for the
companies future. Our second round of funding is
almost complete at which point we will be producing
controllers and a battery and BMS for NiMH. That will
all be announced on our site. We are back to shopping
for a Lithium ion battery since things at Advanced
Battery did not work out.
Rather than just supplying the DYI and conversion
business we will also be supplying other manufactures
as well. Hence the name change. The new site will be
updated often and will give all the info on our
products and when they will be available.
We are also updating the Reverend Gadget sites and all
of them will be linked together. We are developing
some content to put up on YouTube. I will notify the
list when it is available.
Here are some of the new products that will be
available when the new site is up.
Motor to Bellhousing Adapter Plates
We now have the ability to stamp bellhousing adaters
from 1/4 aluminum plate with 1 inch offset. They will
be available two ways: one is a blank that is
predrilled for your motor but otherwise just a
rectangle that you cut and drill to suit your
application. The other is a complete adapter, with all
cutting and drilling done for you.
Clutchless Transmission Adapters
For this all you have to do is send us your old clutch
disc. The hub is removed from the disc and is fitted
to a special clamp on adapter with a keyway to match
your motor.
Flywheel Modification
Send in your old flywheel and we will insert a hub
with a taperlock bushing to fit your motor. We also
can remove the ring gear and lighten it. The flywheel
is then balanced and sent back to you.
Battery Cables
You will be able to order your cables already
assembled with Vutron cable. The cable is orange to
comply with current DOT regs on high voltage cables.
we crimp the fitting on with a conductive grease and
shrink red or black color coded tubing over the joint.
They are then tested for resistance and load tested
and checked for tempurature rise.
These are just a few of the things we are working on.
The new products will be up on the website with
pictures when it is up and running. 2007 will be a
great year for electric cars.
Gadget
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got the quote below off another list. Someone with access to a pc please
check this guys name in free patentsonline.com and lets see if we can
get the date of the earliest nimh patent.
He apparently is in california. Anyone from the list know him?
Wonder what he thinks of chevron not letting anyone build car size nimh
batteries.
Stan Ovshinsky, father of the NiMH battery: (circa 2005, Quoted in the
>Orange County Weekly)
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>"The people who are saying that [electric vehicle] battery technology
isn't
>ready are absolutely wrong," [Stan] says. "It's part of the party
line. It's
>self-perpetuating. It's very sad. You tell a lie big enough and long
enough
>and people start to believe it. The fact of the matter is volume.
That's the
>only reason batteries are the cost they are."
>- Stan Ovshinsky, father of the NiMH battery: (circa 2005, Quoted in
the
>Orange County Weekly)
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Solar cells are massed produced now.
Ironically at a solar conference I attended about 3 years ago one of the
vendeors admitted that state subsudy of consumer installations actually
kept the manufacture price high.
The manufacturers knew they could get more per panle because the
consumer was subsidized 50% by the state.
On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 9:28 am, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Yes we've been promised significant advances in solar tech for decades
now. Just like we've been promised "Super batteries" at significantly
reduced cost for decades.
You can't spend promises and, personally, I never depend on them. Too
many disapointments in that area.
"Solar cells are already mass produced, so all we are talking about is
producing them in large mass produced quantities. I don't see that
making
a significant reduction in their price."
http://www.nanosolar.com/
Promises a "significant" reduction in prices.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jennifer wrote:
When you wrote regs I am assuming you meant
He was referring to "regulators" as seen here for example:
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/
Other possible options:
http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/balancerland/
http://www.evsource.com/tls_powercheq.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dale -
Can you point me to the specific regulation you described?
thanks,
Darin
---
Legally, in Canada, the weight of the EV drive system and batteries has to
be equal to the weight you take off by removing the ICE, fuel tank, and
whatever weight you can pull off.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another very nice forum that I visit regularly is the Pennock's Fiero Forum:
http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/fiero/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=3.+Gene
ral+Fiero+Chat&number=1&DaysPrune=2&LastLogin=
It is very fast to post and to view topics of interest. You can even upload
pics with your post.
Ken
In a message dated 1/15/2007 4:08:49 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
As a possibility of BBS look at www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com. It is
normally updated within a minute of the post, much faster than this
list, it is well organized and easy to add topics.
They have a current topics list on the front page that shows the most
active discussions and then you can jump to the forums that are easy to
search. I would love it if there were a similar EV on line club. I am
willing to try and find more if you want. It is the best such
discussion site I have ever seen. Check it out.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 9:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BBS?
At 05:50 PM 1/14/2007, Brian M. Sutin wrote:
> > This listserv really should be changed over to a BBS. I think I'm
gonna
> > opt out given the volume to topic ratio without any way to
categorize
> > the topics.
>
>I agree. In fact, I would be happy to create to create a domain and
put
>up a forum, which would take a few days at most and cost nothing. On
the
>other hand, I suspect that many of the people who read this won't
switch
>over, and the only result would be to dilute the community. Unless the
You got it.
Lets see, I can have an Email list that comes to me as it happens,
OR a web forum that is slow, requires me to explicitly check things,
and will end up cluttered with lots of cute icons.
Which do you think I (and many others) would prefer?
Hint: Time is Precious
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
GWMobile wrote:
> Got the quote below off another list. Someone with access to
> a pc please check this guys name in free patentsonline.com
> and lets see if we can get the date of the earliest nimh patent.
> He apparently is in california. Anyone from the list know him?
> Wonder what he thinks of chevron not letting anyone build car
> size nimh batteries.
>
> Stan Ovshinsky, father of the NiMH battery: (circa 2005, Quoted in the
> > >Orange County Weekly)
Stan Ovshinshky (sp?), is deceased. He and his wife were the
founders/owners of Ovonics, which was sold to GM/Chevron and is now
known as Cobasys.
Ovonics was enforcing/defending its large-format NiMH patents even
before the sale.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
