EV Digest 6308
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: "Chrysler questions climate change"
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) T105 vs. T125
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: NEDRA in Hot Rod magazine...
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Price,
availability Re: Electric Rate Increase Effective
January 1
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Price,
availability Re: Electric Rate Increase Effective
January 1
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: T105 vs. T125
by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Rev Counter
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) re:controller/motor match
by Carl Clifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: NEDRA in Hot Rod magazine...
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Funding a conversion
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Spacy UFO Sounds for our EV's I LIKE I T !!
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: PWM Module for fan
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) NOISY SLOW Volt Video
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: T105 vs. T125
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: T105 vs. T125
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: A little bit OT: Dashboard gauge needle / pointer
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Spacy UFO Sounds for our EV's I LIKE I T !!
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV costs, production, Re: Conversion costs never change?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) 1965 Datsun Battery Placement
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: [EV] RE: PWM Module for fan
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: broken battery post
by "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Battery technology
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Voltage sag, ultra-cold weather, and a new controller
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Big EV Grin
by "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Voltage sag, ultra-cold weather, and a new controller
by Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: 1965 Datsun Battery Placement
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I think global warming insn't really gobal warming... The way i see it its
more like insanly extreme weather conditions. One week its 15 C and the next
its a blizzard and minus 20C. One week it floods the next it dosn't rain at
all. The past 5 years are the crazyiest i have ever seen. The ski hills
don't open as early anymore, not because of a lack of snow, but because the
snow melts away before a base can form. Skiing is now a hit and miss. One
day the snow is really light and fluffy and the next you water skiing.
From: "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: "Chrysler questions climate change"
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:12:10 +0200
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6247371.stm
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi All:
I've seen where a lot of conversions use T105's and others use T125's. The
Trojan specs I've seen show that they're the same size but the 125's have
higher capacity. Can anyone explain the advantage (if any) of using the 105's
instead of the 125's?
TIA
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--- Begin Message ---
Glad to hear that. They've been pretty hard on hybrids and the like; I've
written several letters telling them they should check out some of the hot
conversions. They are very widely read in the hotrod community and any
publicity in that mag should generate a lot of interest.
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 4:24:01 PM
Subject: Re: NEDRA in Hot Rod magazine...
Hi all,
I couldn't find it on their website, so we called the
Editor (Rob Kinnan) by phone and he was excited about
electrics. He verified page 40 of March 2007 Hot Rod.
He stated that the April issue will feature the
Killacycle too. Nice guy and well informed. He said
we can expect more electrics.
Jay Lashlee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> All,
> The only volunteer gig that I'm currently doing
> (having been burned out on
> 10+ years of youth-sports volunteer work!), is to
> dig through the recycling
> bin at the post office to remove the trash and
> plastic, prior to hauling it
> to the drop-off center. Anyway, I'm always scoring
> on magazines and
> catalogs (cars, tools, and electronics, of course!),
> and the other day I
> pulled out the March, 2007 edition of Hot Rod. Last
> night after doing
> chores I finally cracked the mag open and was
> surprised to see a page
> devoted to NEDRA (National Electric Drag Racing
> Association), Motorsport Of
> The Month on page 40 to be exact. I'm wondering if
> someone contacted the
> mag (the Wilde man?), or if they stumbled on the
> website? I haven't had Hot
> Rod mags around since the 60's, but maybe I'll have
> to subscribe and also
> write a positive letter to the editor about the
> NEDRA plug!
> Suck Amps,
> BB
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Well, wh/mile is highly speed dependent.
A vehicle that average 300 wh/mile at normal traffic speeds could probably
get 100-150 wh mile at 1-5 mph.
If you only drive once a week and exercise daily...still hardly worth it.
If you are going to people power an EV, you need a lighter more efficient EV.
> Michael wrote:
>
>> What is the conversion factor that I am missing? Folks have
>> reported 300wH for their 3000 lb+ EVs... but 2 people can
>> deliver that power. Is that perhaps 300wH per mile?
>
> Correct. Energy consumption of EVs is typically specified in Watt-hours
> per mile (Wh/mi) or Watt-hours per kilometer (Wh/km).
>
> Going back to Peter's citation that a reasonably fit individual can
> generate about 200W, this means that over about 1.5hrs an individual
> could generate enough energy to move a typical 300Wh/mi EV a distance of
> 1 mile. Of course, this energy would have to be stored somehow for
> later use, unless one is content to travel at 0.67mph (1mi in 1.5hrs)
> ;^>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
--
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wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> A reasonably fit individual can produce over 200 watts per hour, the
>> average couch patato, about 1/2 of that.
>> Considering that the average American (and most people in the other
>> developed counries) could use an extra hour of exercise every day or so,
>> this could be an excellent source of additional energy.
>
> What is the conversion factor that I am missing? Folks have reported 300wH
> for their 3000 lb+ EVs... but 2 people can deliver that power. Is that
> perhaps 300wH per mile?
Yup, that's it exactly.
The "average" EV uses about 250-350 wh per mile. Really efficient ones
can use less than 200 wh mile.
Ultra-Light, Ultra-Efficient can theoretically use less than 1wh per mile.
Some of the record breaking HPVs use less then 1wh per mile when going
70+ mph.
For a normal size car, 100-150 wh mile would be exceptional.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Frank,
The T-125 is essentially a T-105 with 10Ah higher capacity, 5 pounds
heavier, and about $6 more each. In a 144V system, the T-105 would provide
32.4kWh at 1464 pounds for $2616. The T-125 would provide 33.84kWh at 1584
pounds for $2776. Other than that, I haven't noticed any differences
between the products.
Brandon
On 1/16/07, Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi All:
I've seen where a lot of conversions use T105's and others use
T125's. The Trojan specs I've seen show that they're the same size but the
125's have higher capacity. Can anyone explain the advantage (if any) of
using the 105's instead of the 125's?
TIA
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--- Begin Message ---
So ... it's a tachometer?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just want to mention this wee project I tried with great success. Before
messing with motors and controllers it's handy to have a rev counter to make
sure you keep the speed to a safe level. I downloaded the PIC code for a neat
little setup from _www.josepino.com_ (http://www.josepino.com/) . I used the
second version, 0 - 9,999 rpm and used an infrared transmitter/detector pair
to detect a white patch on my rotating motor output plate. There's a bit of
flutter but only from my sensing device setup, the hardware and code work as
well as any professional device I've used before.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well I can't seem to find much info on the G-19 controller, so I wonder if I
would be better off ponying up for the alltrax which I know I could program.
Apparently the Yamaha G-Max could be programmed with a palm pilot, so I might
grab that one if I can find it refurbed. I think motor is a GE sepex so was
probably in Yamaha and Club Car carts.
Thanks,
Carl
>Hi Carl,
Most golf car motors referred to as "regen" are separately excited and require
a separately excited controller. I am not familiar with Yamaha controllers.
Curtis and Sevcon make controllers for separately excited motors. You will need
to program the controller to match the motor and application. I have done this
with a GE Club Car sep-ex motor and could help.
Jeff
>Are you sure about the "Regen" motor? All motors can do regen (more or
less) it's the controller the determines whether you get regen or not.
I don't think Yahmaha makes electric motors, but I could be wrong.
Is the motor series wound, PMDC, or AC?
> Hi List,
>
> I have a 48v regen motor from a 2000 Club Car golf cart and a YAMAHA 48
> VOLT G-19 controller. I am converting a motorcycle and would like to
> pair these but am wondering if anyone can tell me whether they will
> match well or I should wait to find a either a Club Car controller or a
> Yamaha motor to match the other.
>
> Thanks
>
> Carl
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Jay for the update. For the newbies to the list there is a great
article from the 1988 Hot Bike magazine featuring Ed Rannberg's Kawashocki
which was turning 11s almost twenty years ago. NEDRA has reprinted the
entire article. You can read it here: http://www.nedra.com/hotbike.html The
jpegs are a bit hard to read. You may need a magnifying glass.
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA Marketing Director
www.nedra.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: NEDRA in Hot Rod magazine...
Hi all,
I couldn't find it on their website, so we called the
Editor (Rob Kinnan) by phone and he was excited about
electrics. He verified page 40 of March 2007 Hot Rod.
He stated that the April issue will feature the
Killacycle too. Nice guy and well informed. He said
we can expect more electrics.
Jay Lashlee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
All,
The only volunteer gig that I'm currently doing
(having been burned out on
10+ years of youth-sports volunteer work!), is to
dig through the recycling
bin at the post office to remove the trash and
plastic, prior to hauling it
to the drop-off center. Anyway, I'm always scoring
on magazines and
catalogs (cars, tools, and electronics, of course!),
and the other day I
pulled out the March, 2007 edition of Hot Rod. Last
night after doing
chores I finally cracked the mag open and was
surprised to see a page
devoted to NEDRA (National Electric Drag Racing
Association), Motorsport Of
The Month on page 40 to be exact. I'm wondering if
someone contacted the
mag (the Wilde man?), or if they stumbled on the
website? I haven't had Hot
Rod mags around since the 60's, but maybe I'll have
to subscribe and also
write a positive letter to the editor about the
NEDRA plug!
Suck Amps,
BB
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You won't be needing to pay for it all at once. Start
with the motor and adapter plate. Batteries and
controller are also pricey, but you don't need them
until closer to the end of the project.
RE: grants. Most likely via mech tech/JC programs.
Limited english/limited income areas.
This is not to say you won't find a taker in ADC or
Trojan, but I've never heard of them doing any type of
grant...
Hope that helps,
--- Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm hoping to start my conversion of my Dodge Shadow
> (
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1033) this summer.
> I've found all the parts
> I plan to use and totaled the prices. With my
> DC/PbA conversion, my
> estimated cost is around $9000. Being a student, I
> do not have any way to
> make this kind of money quickly or easily. So, I
> have been trying to figure
> out how to raise this money and I came to thinking
> of sponsorship. Would it
> be a good idea to go to my local power company and
> ask for them to fund this
> "educational project" of mine? Should I also try
> contacting Trojan, Curtis,
> ADC, etc.? Any advice for getting my car
> sponsored/paid for?
>
> Thanks,
> Brandon
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roland: Do you have MP3 samples of these sounds ?? Would love to
integrate this into some of our EVs round Seattle..
( Loved the old movie "Forbidden Planet" ) It was a bench-mark Si-Fi
State of the ART movie way untill "2001" came along..Don't you agree ??
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 15, 2007, at 12:08 PM, Roger Stockton wrote:
I wrote earlier:
This market split I referred to gets wider :-)
You would be happy with the DC>DC keeping up *most* of the
time and the voltage wandering down below 13 volts the rest
of the time.
No, not necessarily. I am asking *you* if 100A is really a realistic
continuous 12V system load. I've seen the 100A value bandied about by
others on the basis that if an ICE vehicle is equipped with a 100A
alternator, then we should be installing 100A DC/DCs. I don't have
personal experience with vehicles with 100A level 12V loads, so my
question is really if it makes sound sense to pay for 100A of
continuous
DC/DC capability if the reality is that this value really represents a
peak or worst-case load condition that might seldom, if ever, be
encountered.
100 amps at 13.x volts is *not* a realistic continuous load. It is a
peak load and if the DC>DC can't handle the peak loads the 12v system
really will drop down into the 12v range.
It depends entirely on the vehicle. There are of people on this
converting late model cars that want their AC, PS, and power antilock
brake systems intact. There are various ways to handle AC, some don't
impact the 12v system much (but the treadmill motors seem to have some
reliability issues.) PS is an issue. The common MR2 pump will take most
of 100 amps all by itself when turning. I would guess that the 12v
electric assist systems (often discussed, not sure anyone has reverse
engineered for transplant yet) represent a substantial load too (power
is power :-)
[snip]
I'm thinking I can provide trailer home level protection to save
money. You seem to be thinking along the lines of having only 30
amps to save money.
Hmmm... I think you are getting the two of us mixed up ;^> I have
access to 1kW DC/DC capability at a very reasonable price, should I
want
it, so I'm not really concerned with cost at all (my employer's sealed
1kW chargers eat DC happily, and I have the ability to reprogram them
for whatever output voltage and behaviour I want; unfortunately the
general public doesn't have this option).
[snip]
If I am, sorry. When someone mentions the Curtis DC>DC my first thought
is "lack of amps." Of course that is not always true. My EV Buggy uses
a Todd PC20-LV without a 12v system battery; however, lacking a heater
and power steering (and almost everything else) has a way to reducing
12v power needs ;-) When I built my VW Pickup I bought what was
available and settled for 25 amps (if I where doing it today I'd most
likely choose an Iota DLS-75.) I quickly became keenly aware of the 12v
system dropping into the 12's.
Converters like the Iota are routinely mounted in vehicles - motor
homes and travel trailers. They are not be built for the under-hood
automotive environment; but, they are built to be mounted in vehicles.
So, while the Iota has options that would work fine for EVs I *have*
built, I'm getting interested in some other options. I have since sold
the Pickup (in 2003) and am exploring my next EV build options.
Voltages right around 200v seems to match both the motors I have in
mind and the range I have in mind (around 30-35 miles, sealed
batteries.) I start looking around and quickly find other list members
have asked this question and I'm finding few options.)
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll bet ya 10 to 1 it was that this Mock-Up Proto-Type, only has a
small DC motor Chain-Driven perhaps only to one wheel. JUST to get it
out and around on the Pedestal at the Detroit Intl Auto Show, and the
next few shows, round the country. Not really road worthy, or road
ready... Certainly not the 100 hp+ AC system a real production model of
this E-Flex car would have...
As I recall, the EV1 at those speeds was virtually silent !!
Why they would TAPE this and SHOW this, and let us all hear the awful
noises.... is beyond me...
Perhaps it was not really MEANT to get out into general distribution.
Watching her leave the garage, and return and plug in WAS very COOL as
Roderick Wilde already stated a few days ago...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Other than the greater weight, is there a reason not to specify the T125's over
the T105's?
thanks
----- Original Message ----
From: Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 4:54:04 PM
Subject: Re: T105 vs. T125
Hi Frank,
The T-125 is essentially a T-105 with 10Ah higher capacity, 5 pounds
heavier, and about $6 more each. In a 144V system, the T-105 would provide
32.4kWh at 1464 pounds for $2616. The T-125 would provide 33.84kWh at 1584
pounds for $2776. Other than that, I haven't noticed any differences
between the products.
Brandon
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
T105s weigh less, 61 lbs compared to 66 lbs, and have about 10 percent less
capacity and cost less.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 1:33 PM
Subject: T105 vs. T125
Hi All:
I've seen where a lot of conversions use T105's and others use T125's.
The Trojan specs I've seen show that they're the same size but the 125's
have higher capacity. Can anyone explain the advantage (if any) of using
the 105's instead of the 125's?
TIA
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and
hotel bargains.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Found a solution to this. I bought a set of drill bits that are #60 to
#80 (.04" to .0135") turns out that using a #76 (0.02") drill on a piece
of 1/8" thick plexiglas works pretty well. I ground the material away
from the hole until it was a small disc 1/8" thick, and 3/16" in
diameter. I then simply glued a pointer needle onto the little piece.
Eric Poulsen wrote:
I have some snifty high-torque meter movements (Beede Super Torque)
that I was going to use for speedo / amps / whatever.
One thing that is proving really difficult to locate are meter needles
that don't cost an arm and a leg. You know, the little orange pointer
thing that moves on your speedometer?
I have found some fancy models for $50 and up, but I'm just looking
for your basic el-cheapo pointer.
I know I can make my own easily enough, but it seems this should be a
$1 item, if only I knew where to look.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Steven,
I haven't run this disc in my EV when it was in a car show back in 1985.
These sounds came from a sound synthesizer that is built into a Commodore
128D using Basic 7.0 language. The sounds are on 3.5 inch disk not PC
formated.
There is suppose to be a interface system which can down load the 7.0
language into a PC, so I can transfers all my old files. Someday I might
get to this.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List
RCVR"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 3:31 PM
Subject: Spacy UFO Sounds for our EV's I LIKE I T !!
> Hi Roland: Do you have MP3 samples of these sounds ?? Would love to
> integrate this into some of our EVs round Seattle..
> ( Loved the old movie "Forbidden Planet" ) It was a bench-mark Si-Fi
> State of the ART movie way untill "2001" came along..Don't you agree ??
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 15, 2007, at 7:00 PM, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
A motor converts electrical power into shaft horsepower. Nothing more
or less except for a *slight* difference in efficiency. Large motors
tend to make more torque per amp, but in turn less rpm per volt (and
cost much more.)
Hmm, not true. The torque per amp thing is inherent to design, not
size.
You can get the same torque-per-amp in a 6.7 inch motor as the 13in, it
just can handle the high current for as long.
"Not true"? I did say "tend" and I think that if you look at the motors
in question (and other series motors commonly used in EVs) you will
find that to be true.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Group;
Pulled the bed off my 1965 Datsun truck "WATTSUN" to start design of my
battery boxes.
My original intent was to put all the batteries under the bed with
hydraulic assist cylinders for access.
I really like this set up. Lower center of gravity and it still has a
usable bed.
As a newbie, I would like to stay with a single string of 12V AGM's,
144V with a weight of ~ 700# to 900#.
I'm considering a lot of different batteries, but for talking purposes
let's say I use the Odyssey PC1700/65 with a weight of 60.9 each.
This should give me 730# of lead with an everyday range of ~ 15 miles at
50% DOD.
Here is my dilemma;
This truck is really small.
Not a show stopper yet, but I may only get 10 batteries under the bed.
(3) on each side of the driveshaft and (4) behind the rear end.
I may get (4) on each side of the driveshaft, but I need to build a
plywood mockup of the box to prove out that point.
I need to stay with a battery that is heavy enough to give me the range
that I need, but that increases the size and space that they take up.
Trying to stay in my comfort zone of 144V, but I'm really starting to
see the advantage of using whatever battery fits your constraints and
not worry about total voltage.
This is the beauty of the Zilla controller.
First Question:
The emergency brake cable and frame guide brackets are in the way.
I'm assuming I will need to retain it.
Any ideas on reworking, relocating, other?
Second Question:
If I only can fit 10 batteries under the bed, any ideas on where to go
with the other 2?
By going under the bed, I have limited myself from any batteries "in"
the bed.
Do I scrap the whole idea and put "all" the batteries in the bed?
Under the hood is very small and even if they fit, I would like to keep
from putting 120# in the radiator space.
I'm trying to keep the weight distribution close to the same as original
and I figure my electric motor and controls will weigh as much as the
tiny 1200cc ICE.
I guess that I'm going to have to give on something, and I'm wondering
what would be the best way to go.
Any suggestions will be appreciated;
Thanks;
Dennis
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C739CF.880810AD"
Subject: 1965 Datsun Battery Placement
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:36:30 -0600
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Thread-Topic: 1965 Datsun Battery Placement
Thread-Index: AcbWXQYzsEM/8bSQSTCmJXv6hb+cLxjWRH4g
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion Group--
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624)
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Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EV] RE: PWM Module for fan
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:43:52 -0800
To: [email protected]
On Jan 15, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Eduardo Kaftanski wrote:
> On this subject, I am converting a very simple car, that maybe needs
> 20 amps of electrical load on the 12v side tops.
>
> Could I get away with a really small DC/DC and a small battery?
> More like a trickle recharger than one sized for the load?
You can. Many have and plenty of EVs still do. In fact, lots of older
EVs don't even have a DC to DC converter; they charge the 12v battery
when they charge the pack.
Its a less than ideal solution because "12 volt" automotive electronics
are generally designed to work on around 13.5 volts. 14.5 volts from
the alternator plus undersized wiring and connectors is a common stock
solution.
There are lots of answers, but without knowing your EV pack voltage its
hard to give any advice.
Oh, and I notice that sometimes Roger Stockton agrees with me :-)
Paul "neon" G.
From: "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: broken battery post
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:01:57 -0500
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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charset="us-ascii"
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Thanks for all of the advice on my broken battery post. I just wanted to
let everyone know that I found a company here in Charlotte, NC to repair the
post. They did a great job and it only cost me $11.00 for the repairs.
Just incase we have any other Ev'ers local to Charlotte, the name of the
company is Battery Services on 24th street. They are super good. I will be
back up to full strength tomorrow when I put the battery back in the pack.
Fred
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 5:36 PM
To: Fred Hartsell
Subject: Re: broken battery post
There's a couple of thigns you could do.
I had a similar situation with battery post terminals whcih couldn't
be removed but i needed to make a new connection aswell so couldn't
remove everything. My first thought was to drill down the inside of
the post and tap it. I decided not to because I only had fine
threaded bolts and I think they thread in the lead post would strip
too easily SO I drilled horizontally through the post and the
terminal and bolted lug terminals.
A friend at a bettery supplier reckons it's a ogod fix, and also that
the vertical drill and tap idea would work with a large fat wide
threaded bolt.
He also said that if it happens again I could get a new post cast on
top. They use an oxy-acet torch to heat the post with a ring of lead
around it and either feed in lead pellets or pour in liquid lead from
a crucible.
Chris
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> I am using Interstate U2200 6 volt batteries in my EV. I noticed
that one
> of the posts seemed loose today when I inspected the batteries for
water.
> When I test the connection I found that part of the battery post
was broken.
> Is there any way to fix this without replacing the battery? These
batteries
> are less than one year old. I was using the stud part of the post
to
> connect the cable to. The only thing left now is a flat portion of
the post
> that goes down into the batteries. Any advice or suggestion would
be
> appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks, Fred
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:11:42 -0500
From: Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Battery technology
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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The following was original posted on the MIT piclist (discussion of
everything computerized/electronics/etc) by Russell McMahon. Seems relevant.
-----------------------
James wants to know about these.
Ken too.
VERY high capacity batteries.
___________
The interview at the end is worth looking at for it's "this is how
science/engineering happens" lessons.
In this case the battery very nearly didn't.
________________________
Flow batteries are electrically like conventional batteries but store
energy in liquid "plates" which is able to be pumped out into storage
when charged. Very large batteries in the 100's of kW and several MWh
range are being built.
Flow batteries are not new BUT the Vanadium Redox battery uses
identical fluids in both halves and uses the multiple oxidation levels
of vanadium to form both negative and positive "plates". Leakage
between halves is equivalent to self discharge rather than
contamination as in other flow cells.
Invented / patented by Sydney university in 1980s. A large trial unit
is being used with a windpower system on King island in bass Strait.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery
Sumitomo
http://electricitystorage.org/pubs/2001/IEEE_PES_Summer2001/Miyake.pdf
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3589/vanadium.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/vanadium-redox-battery
http://www.vfuel.com.au/company.htm
http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Vanadium_redox_batteries
http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/01/vandium_reflux_.html
Vanadium Bromide cell - next generation - lower volumes etc
Prof Skyllas-Kazacos (again/still)(she has been the main developer)
http://www.actapress.com/PaperInfo.aspx?PaperID=17953
Interview with Prof Skyllas-Kazacos
http://www.science.org.au/scientists/notesmsk.htm
Wider ranging interview which the above is taken from
http://www.science.org.au/scientists/msk.htm
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:12:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Voltage sag, ultra-cold weather, and a new controller
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hey all,
It's 28F outside. c-c-c-cold. My batts. should
have a complete charge, and yet I'm sagging down to
122V on my 144V pack, when I'm barely pulling
100-200A. Is this _really_ what EV-ing in cold
weather is like? Wow! Am I damaging batteries with
such a hard sag? (fortunately for only a 1/3-mile
trip)
The only other explanation I can think of is that I
have a new DCP 1200 controller, but I've turned down
the max current to mid-point, so that really (to me)
doesn't explain the hard sag.
Is there something else I'm missing? This is a
_brand new_ set o' batteries!
Thanks,
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
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From: "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Big EV Grin
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:26:17 -0500
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Well, I am starting to get the big EV grin. I took the Dakota EV to get it
weight yesterday and while it took only 2 minutes to weigh the truck, it
took me another 30 minutes just showing it off. Then I went in town to get
new tires and a front-end alignment and I had to spend another 45 minutes
showing off the truck and answering questions. I know that a lot of you
guys have said that this would happen but I did not believe it until it
happened to me. Boy does it feel great just driving the truck around and
not having to worry about stopping at the gas station.
By the way, the truck, a 1991 Dodge Dakota, weighted 4060 pounds complete
with 20 Interstate U2400 batteries. I know that is a little heavier that I
wanted it to be but this is a Dakota and it is bigger than an S-10 or
Ranger. I am still testing to find out what my range will be. I have
driven 34 miles on my longest trip and the truck had more to go. I am
hoping to get better range with the new tires but time will tell.
Thanks, Fred
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:44:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Voltage sag, ultra-cold weather, and a new controller
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I was about to post on this same issue. Here in Southern California, a winter
day is 75 and night about 60. Last 5 days we have seen 25 at night. I normally
have a 30+ mile range and have never given it a thought for my grocery shopping
which is 22.5 miles. Yesterday I was coming home from the store and had to plug
in for 15 minutes 900 feet from home.
Bob
Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey all,
It's 28F outside. c-c-c-cold. My batts. should
have a complete charge, and yet I'm sagging down to
122V on my 144V pack, when I'm barely pulling
100-200A. Is this _really_ what EV-ing in cold
weather is like? Wow! Am I damaging batteries with
such a hard sag? (fortunately for only a 1/3-mile
trip)
The only other explanation I can think of is that I
have a new DCP 1200 controller, but I've turned down
the max current to mid-point, so that really (to me)
doesn't explain the hard sag.
Is there something else I'm missing? This is a
_brand new_ set o' batteries!
Thanks,
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:02:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 1965 Datsun Battery Placement
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dennis,
I'm going through the same thought process with my '94 Toyota which doesn't
offer tons of room either. I'm not convinced that your motor/controls will
weigh as much as your ICE and most folks seem to end up putting batteries under
the hood (from what I've seen so far). I don't think that a couple there will
hurt anything. Other options I'm considering are using taller batteries (still
under the bed) and either modifying the floor of the existing bed or making a
custom bed (stake truck style maybe) a bit higher to allow more height for
batteries.
Another option might be using the stock bed and using one of those aluminum
"tool boxes" as a battery box. They're all mounted right behind the cab which
is probably the best place for weight distribution.
What kind of motor are you planning to use?
Frank
----- Original Message ----
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV Discussion Group <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 7:36:30 PM
Subject: 1965 Datsun Battery Placement
Group;
Pulled the bed off my 1965 Datsun truck "WATTSUN" to start design of my
battery boxes.
My original intent was to put all the batteries under the bed with
hydraulic assist cylinders for access.
I really like this set up. Lower center of gravity and it still has a
usable bed.
As a newbie, I would like to stay with a single string of 12V AGM's,
144V with a weight of ~ 700# to 900#.
I'm considering a lot of different batteries, but for talking purposes
let's say I use the Odyssey PC1700/65 with a weight of 60.9 each.
This should give me 730# of lead with an everyday range of ~ 15 miles at
50% DOD.
Here is my dilemma;
This truck is really small.
Not a show stopper yet, but I may only get 10 batteries under the bed.
(3) on each side of the driveshaft and (4) behind the rear end.
I may get (4) on each side of the driveshaft, but I need to build a
plywood mockup of the box to prove out that point.
I need to stay with a battery that is heavy enough to give me the range
that I need, but that increases the size and space that they take up.
Trying to stay in my comfort zone of 144V, but I'm really starting to
see the advantage of using whatever battery fits your constraints and
not worry about total voltage.
This is the beauty of the Zilla controller.
First Question:
The emergency brake cable and frame guide brackets are in the way.
I'm assuming I will need to retain it.
Any ideas on reworking, relocating, other?
Second Question:
If I only can fit 10 batteries under the bed, any ideas on where to go
with the other 2?
By going under the bed, I have limited myself from any batteries "in"
the bed.
Do I scrap the whole idea and put "all" the batteries in the bed?
Under the hood is very small and even if they fit, I would like to keep
from putting 120# in the radiator space.
I'm trying to keep the weight distribution close to the same as original
and I figure my electric motor and controls will weigh as much as the
tiny 1200cc ICE.
I guess that I'm going to have to give on something, and I'm wondering
what would be the best way to go.
Any suggestions will be appreciated;
Thanks;
Dennis
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C739CF.880810AD"
Subject: 1965 Datsun Battery Placement
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:36:30 -0600
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Thread-Index: AcbWXQYzsEM/8bSQSTCmJXv6hb+cLxjWRH4g
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion Group--
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