EV Digest 6311
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) 25,000 miles unplugged was Re: Transalantic solar boat, Re: 7000 miles
unplugged
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: A little bit OT: Dashboard gauge needle / pointer
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: KIS!! Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: 1965 Datsun Battery Placement, ideas
by Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Shipper for TEVan?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Funding a conversion
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Funding a conversion
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: "Chrysler questions climate change"
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: BBS?
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: "Chrysler questions climate change"
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: Voltage sag, ultra-cold weather, and a new controller
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Shipper for TEVan?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: KIS!! Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Charging while driving
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Controller/motor match (Sepex regen)
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.planetsolar.org/
:)
L
--- Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks for that link Osmo!
> Googled around on Mr.Ponkala and found this too:
> http://www.solarnavigator.net/solar_boat.htm
>
> So, nice to see the model eventually built and afloat! Can't tell if
> she has a sauna onboard <grin>, so will save the Finnish language
> links
> to show my friend Risto.
> tks again
> Lock
> Toronto
>
> --- "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I don´t know about the sea-going nation (well, some of the vikings
>
> > were Finnish..:), but a Finnish inventor Jorma Ponkala made this in
>
> > 2003. Haven´t heard of it since.
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/yr343a
> >
> > terveisin,
> > Osmo
> >
> >
> >
> > Lock Hughes kirjoitti 17.1.2007 kello 5.26:
> >
> > > `Cum on Jerry - they're Swiss! ...not known as a sea-going nation
> > much
> > > <grin>... Cut `em some slack. Besides, at least the solar otta
> give
> >
> > > `em
> > > enough steerage way to keep out of the sargassum...
> > > They "missed the boat" too, not config'ing the solar panels as
> air
> > > foils à la Solar Sailor:
> > > http://www.solarsailor.com/
> > > L
> > >
> > > --- jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> Hi Lock and All,
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> > >> From: Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> To: [email protected]
> > >> Subject: 7000 miles unplugged
> > >> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:21:24 -0500 (EST)
> > >>
> > >>> This EV (Electric Vessel) is well on it's way to travel
> > >>> 7,000 miles under solar power alone:
> > >>> http://www.transatlantic21.org/
> > >>
> > >> While a good looking design concept wise, though for
> > >> heavy weather safety I'd put the solar cells on deck, it
> > >> will receive at least a 3 knot push from the ocean currents
> > >> on it's path plus the 15-30 knot tradewinds will give it
> > >> another 3+ knots so from aero drag, hardly just on solar
> > >> power from the cells as they are only claiming 6 knots ;^D.
> > >> There is a reason ships of old took this route as
> > >> even an empty water bottle would end up in the West Indies
> > >> in 6 months or so from off Spain. Now if they went from the
> > >> WI's back to Spain the same route would be a real
> > >> accomplisment.
> > >>
> > >> Jerry Dycus
> > >>>
> > >>> tks
> > >>> Lock
> > >>> Toronto
> > >>> human-electric hybrid pedestrian
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Hobby store- look for homemade clock hands. there are
a variety and they can be painted.
--- Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Found a solution to this. I bought a set of drill
> bits that are #60 to
> #80 (.04" to .0135") turns out that using a #76
> (0.02") drill on a piece
> of 1/8" thick plexiglas works pretty well. I
> ground the material away
> from the hole until it was a small disc 1/8" thick,
> and 3/16" in
> diameter. I then simply glued a pointer needle onto
> the little piece.
>
>
> Eric Poulsen wrote:
> > I have some snifty high-torque meter movements
> (Beede Super Torque)
> > that I was going to use for speedo / amps /
> whatever.
> > One thing that is proving really difficult to
> locate are meter needles
> > that don't cost an arm and a leg. You know, the
> little orange pointer
> > thing that moves on your speedometer?
> >
> > I have found some fancy models for $50 and up, but
> I'm just looking
> > for your basic el-cheapo pointer.
> >
> > I know I can make my own easily enough, but it
> seems this should be a
> > $1 item, if only I knew where to look.
> >
> >
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Solar range extender seen here:
http://www.solartaxi.com/projekt-e.htm
"Solar panels on a trailer produce about 30 % of the needed
electricity."
Probably look good towed behind a Freedom EV :)
tks
Lock
Toronto
human-electric hybrid pedestrian
--- jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Joe and All,
> The earlier posts are some of the worst
> ways to do range extention.
> The real way would be using a real DC gen driven by a low
> polluting motor. This eliminates all the problems below
> being both eff and powerful enough to do any trip.
> For pick ups, a Geo 3cyl motor only weighs
> 125lbs or so that directly coupled to a DC gen like a Shunt
> field version of most any EV motor we use puts out massive
> power without complaint safely and much more eff at a lower
> cost than just a PFC charger needed the other way.
> A reg AC gen is just not going to do the
> job and likely to burn up.
> Regulation is very easy, once the battery
> pack hits a certain voltage like 14.5vdc/6cells of batt, a
> limit circuit turns it off. If you need it again, just hit
> the contactor to the battery pack and the shunt motor/gen
> revs up, starting the gen ICE.
> Done correctly can be a great addition to
> an EV, maybe eliminating the need to keep an ICE too.
> KIS,
> Jerry Dycus
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:42:15 -0800
>
> >Yes, there are problems with using simple, unregulated
> >chargers in a series hybrid:
> >
> >1) When you step on the accelerator to move the vehicle,
> >the battery voltage goes down resulting in an unregulated
> >charger putting too much load on the generator causing it
> >to either overheat or lug down.
> >
> >2) When you lift off the accelerator, the battery voltage
> >goes up, causing the charger to uncontrollably cut back on
> >charge current sometimes overvoltage the controller or
> >overspeed the genset.
> >
> >3) The poor power factor of the simple chargers limits the
> >power out of the genset to about 60% to 80% of the engine
> >power capability before the breakers open or the genset
> >windings burn out.
> >
> >The PFC chargers were built to accommodate the genset
> >charging a battery when it is in use:
> >
> >a) The current limit will prevent overcurrent conditions
> >that would cause damage to the genset.
> >b) The voltage limit will prevent overvoltage damage to the
> >batteries and controller.
> >c) The high power factor will allow pulling rated current
> >from the genset without overheating or lugging either the
> >engine or the generator. d) The charger will maintain a
> >constant power from the genset regardless of battery
> >voltage until the voltage limit is reached. e) The charger
> >will work on a wide voltage range to cover 100 to 250 VAC
> >or VDC input.
> >f) The charger will work on a wide frequency range to allow
> >the engine to be variable speed.
> >
> >The last feature allows the designer to put a solenoid on
> >the throttle to arbitrarily pull the engine back to idle to
> >eliminate the annoying genset noise when stopped in
> >traffic. I would probably connect it to a button or switch
> >in the driver's compartment so he can choose to quiet it to
> >be sensitive to his environment.
> >
> >Sheer Pullen drove his Acura from Seattle to Woodburn
> >powered by a genset on a trailer. He had problems because
> >1) the PFC-50 had not been invented yet, therefore he
> >paralleled three PFC-20s to get enough power to push the
> >car at freeway speeds, 2) his trailer was too high
> >substantially increasing his wind resistance (traction
> >power requirements), and 3) it was a very hot (~100F) day
> >causing the chargers to cut back current when operated in
> >the back seat area.
> >
> >If I were designing the system today, I would recommend: a)
> >a very short trailer that gets the genset out of the wind,
> >b) use a PFC-50B, and c) duct outside air to the charger
> >for cooling.
> >
> >John Wayland did the Red Beastie run up the Columbia river
> >using the ugly box charger. I don't recall the names of
> >other people to run EVs from Seattle to Portland and back.
> >Rich Rudman, John Wayland and Steve Lough should know
> >several others who have done it and report on the lessons
> >learned.
> >
> >Joe Smalley
> >Rural Kitsap County WA
> >Fiesta 48 volts
> >NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:18 AM
> >Subject: RE: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >> Some folks have tried this in the past and destroyed
> >> >> their controllers. I'm not sure why, but I wouldn't
> >advise trying it until you can find out
> >> >> what went wrong and how to avoid it.
> >> >
> >> > I think they forgot that when the let up on the
> >> > accelerator, the generator will send all its power into
> >> > the batteries. If they just start driving (or even
> >> > before they start driving and fire up the generator
> >> > just before taking off) the batteries cannot handle all
> >> > the current while they are full and can go well beyond
> >> > 15V per battery (I have seen AGM batteries go above 16V
> >>with only 10A current)
> >> That's why they run the generator through the charger.
> >> The charger takes care of regulating the charging current
> >> & voltage. As I recall, they suspected some kind of high
> >> level voltage spikes coming from the generator that
> >>somehow go through the charger.
> >> I think John Wayland was one of the folks that tried this
> >> and toasted something. I believe he was using one of
> >> Rich's PFC chargers and one of Otmar's controllers, but
> >>I'm not sure.
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 02:58 -0500, Bob Rice wrote:
>
>
> Are
> ya thinking of fiberglassing over the grill. Should be<g>!You don't need a
> grill, looks nice and makes the truck unique. Also keeps the rain out, yoiou
> don't need raw water flow over the electronics.
Good tip. I took my truck on a test run yesterday and it started to
snow. I was dismayed when I opened the hood and found little drifts up
against some of the tender bits.
Rich
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think Nick Austin paid $950 to ship my TEVan to
Mountain View when he bought it. I assume the service
was acceptable, maybe Nick could respond if watching
the list.
AAALL STATES AUTO TRANSPORT INC.
SALES 712-275-9056 PO BOX 146
DISPATCH 712-275-9017 SCHALLER, IOWA 51053
Customer copy
FAX 712-275-9086 CONTRACT
DATE 05-26-05 FROM/TO AKRON,OH TO MOUNTAIN
VIEW,CA
ORDER # xxxxx
YEAR1994 M DODGE M CARAVAN EARLIEST PICKUP DATE
05-26-05
__________________________________ $200.00
BALANCE OF $750.00 TO BE PAID AT TIME OF DELIVERY.
$950.00 TOTAL
TRANSPORT COST.
AMOUNT ONLY TO BE CHARGED AFTER LOADING THE VEHICLE
ON THE
TRANSPORTER!
--- Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, I'm a lurker and only occasionally post to the
> EVDL. But now I'm
> finally getting back into an EV!
>
> I bought a Dodge TEVan on the other coast and want
> to have it shipped
> to me in Portland, Oregon. DAS wants to treat it as
> a specialty
> vehicle and quoted me $2300!
>
> I have found a $1600 quote, but would be glad to
> have a
> recommendation of a reliable shipper to bring it
> from Maryland to
> Oregon. Of course, if you happen to be driving that
> route with an
> empty flatbed I'd be happy to pay you...
>
> Jerry
>
> 503-866-0565
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brandon, best of luck with your conversion. But....
Don't hold your breath. You will be lucky to find anyone who will give you
much more
than a decal for your bumper. I am just a teacher and not rich, and I had
some similar ideas when I started my EV project and one I wanted to do at
the school where I work. I was disappointed very quickly.
As to a couple of the companies you mentioned. Don't waste your time asking
ADC. I asked them once on behalf of my school for a project and they gave
me a VERY short answer that they wouldn't even give us a discount or sell
directly to us. When it came time to do my own project I chose a Netgain
(in my opinion a better motor) instead.
The controller company you mentioned was offering some free samples on
their website so I filled out the online form and got a call from their rep
who brushed me off and never sent the sample relay after she found out I was
with a school (never returned my call after that). A Zilla is a much better
controller if you can afford the wait time. It won't "squeal" on you
either.
You will get mostly good advice here on the forum. That will save you some
money and wasted time along the way, but it will come down to your own
resources and ingenuity to get your project funded and running. In my case
I have some great friends who have assisted in many aspects (especially the
welding department where I work in a trade school). I wouldn't be nearly
as far along without them.
Occasionally you will encounter some naysayers here as well that will tell
you you picked the wrong car, you need to buy "this or that", etc., or your
car won't go 80 miles when you are done because you didn't pick a Geo Metro
peanut car or whatever they think is the best for an EV because they live in
CA and have to commute 100 miles to work...whatever!
Don't be discouraged, just stay focused and believe in your project. Things
will work out, you will be surprised..
Best of luck,
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:18 PM
Subject: Funding a conversion
Hello,
I'm hoping to start my conversion of my Dodge Shadow (
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1033) this summer. I've found all the
parts
I plan to use and totaled the prices. With my DC/PbA conversion, my
estimated cost is around $9000. Being a student, I do not have any way to
make this kind of money quickly or easily. So, I have been trying to
figure
out how to raise this money and I came to thinking of sponsorship. Would
it
be a good idea to go to my local power company and ask for them to fund
this
"educational project" of mine? Should I also try contacting Trojan,
Curtis,
ADC, etc.? Any advice for getting my car sponsored/paid for?
Thanks,
Brandon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sell 200 lottery tickets at $100 each. If conversion costs $10,000
including glider, then you can give away the first conversion with
enough left over for a second, which will probably be better than the
first <smile>
Haven't tried this myself. But folks do like to gamble, usually at much
worse odds.
tks
Lock
Toronto
human-electric hybrid.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:18 PM
> Subject: Funding a conversion
>
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm hoping to start my conversion of my Dodge Shadow (
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1033) this summer. I've found all
> the
> > parts
> > I plan to use and totaled the prices. With my DC/PbA conversion,
> my
> > estimated cost is around $9000. Being a student, I do not have any
> way to
> > make this kind of money quickly or easily. So, I have been trying
> to
> > figure
> > out how to raise this money and I came to thinking of sponsorship.
> Would
> > it
> > be a good idea to go to my local power company and ask for them to
> fund
> > this
> > "educational project" of mine? Should I also try contacting
> Trojan,
> > Curtis,
> > ADC, etc.? Any advice for getting my car sponsored/paid for?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brandon
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
I agree we had none of our normal winter last year and this yr
our weather here in northern new york has just finally turned to winter in
mid Jan. We have had temps from 40 to 60 through nov and dec which is not
normal My range on the solectria is definitely down with the 15 to 20 degree
temps. mike young.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 1:53 AM
Subject: RE: "Chrysler questions climate change"
Tim,
That is exactly the predicted effect of "global warming",
that weather gets more extreme over time.
In The Netherlands the average winter temp is slightly above
freezing (day temp) and slightly below at night on average.
This year it has not frozen at all for the entire winter.
Since December the trees and flowers are blossoming and I
heard last week that the roses have flowers too. In Januari!
Water taps are frozen solid in San Diego and you can walk
outside without coat in New York winter.
Who needs EV's?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Tim Gamber
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 1:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: "Chrysler questions climate change"
I think global warming insn't really gobal warming... The way i see it its
more like insanly extreme weather conditions. One week its 15 C and the
next
its a blizzard and minus 20C. One week it floods the next it dosn't rain
at
all. The past 5 years are the crazyiest i have ever seen. The ski hills
don't open as early anymore, not because of a lack of snow, but because
the
snow melts away before a base can form. Skiing is now a hit and miss. One
day the snow is really light and fluffy and the next you water skiing.
From: "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: "Chrysler questions climate change"
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:12:10 +0200
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6247371.stm
_________________________________________________________________
Buy what you want when you want it on Sympatico / MSN Shopping
http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/content/shp/?ctId=2,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=081
805
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have an FAQ at evparts.com that has been around for quite a while.
Also, as Storm pointed out, we have a thread sorted archive:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
---------------------------------------------------
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong
man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit
belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short
again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming,
but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself
for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high
achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while
daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid
souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom Parker
Sent: January 17, 2007 12:53 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BBS?
On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 12:27 -0800, Storm Connors wrote:
> I've been using http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive to
keep up. The individual messages overwhelmed my email, so I "postponed"
delivery. Having the messages threaded makes reviewing them a little easier.
Responding takes an extra step.
>
> Doesn't this satisfy the request for BBS or am I missing something?
> storm
One of the complaints about the mailing list is that new members repeat
questions, which leads to renewed discussion (see the on board generator
discussion this week -- perhaps the 4th time since I joined 6 months ago).
Could the community support a wiki to address such recurring topics? If
someone suggests an on board generator, a reply with a link to the wiki page
would hopefully prevent any repeated discussion of the subject.
Wikipedia seems to have quite an extensive electric vehicle section.
However a discussion on why a homemade series hybrid isn't usually a good
idea seems out of place there.
The electric vehicle conversion wikibook would seem an appropriate
place:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_conversion
As would seva's wiki http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/Main_Page but the
account signup email is dead (no valid MX records).
So I wrote a couple of paragraphs that kindof summarise the current
thread:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_conversion_chapter:_technologi
es#On_Board_or_Towed_Generator
I also stubbed battery trailers and pusher trailers.
Please contribute.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 1/17/2007 7:00:59 AM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
We have had temps from 40 to 60 through nov and dec which is not
normal My range on the solectria is definitely down with the 15 to 20 degree
temps.
A quick question (that probably comes up every winter!).
Does it hurt the batteries to use an EV that is "soaked" in sub-freezing
cold? I know the range suffers but does it shorten the battery life to make a
short run or two in ten degree weather and then recharge?
8 degrees as I write!
Matt Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
BMW m/c-Golf Cart trike - 48 volts, 30mph on the flat, 35 mile range
1972 VW Van - to be converted this year!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All,
In living in cold weather, you learn to design any electrical systems to
work in these extreme conditions. It is normal here in Montana to get a 80
degree change in with one hour, I think the record is about a 100 degree
change in 40 minutes.
So we design our homes, garages, and vehicles to at least withstand a 100
degree change to reduce the btur's lost's, by using the following btur lost
formula.
Btur's = sf x u x TD
where sf = the square foot area you want to insulated.
u = 1/R (R=R Factor or the resistance of a material)
TD = Temperature Difference between the area you want to
maintain to the ambient temperature.
Therefore I have my house and garage walls insulated to 79 R-factor and the
ceiling is at 136 R-factor. My garage doors is at 19 R's and my windows are
at .11 u-factor.
I hold all the living areas to 75 degrees temperature and the garage to
variable 65 to 70 degrees.
My EV is also double insulated with a dead air space. The battery
compartments are a non-conductive material which is insulated with 2 inches
of Dow blue rigid foam, then a nylon cover, 3 inches or dead air space,
another nylon cover and 2 inches of rigid foam. The battery box covers are
nylon foam cover and double gasket.
The two layers of foam alone is 20 R-factor and there is about 1 R-factor
per 3/4 inch of air space.
About 1 hour before I take out my EV in temperatures ranging down to -30
below, I preheat the inside of the battery box to 70 degrees, the cab to 80
degrees and the motor bay also is at 70 degrees.
At these low -20 to -30 degrees F. the maximum amount of time I let the EV
set outside is 2 hours which is enough time for my runs during a cloudy day.
If its clear and that cold, I park the EV back glass hatch pointing to the
sun, which can keep it up to 80 degrees in the battery compartment, I have
let the EV park outside for up to 8 hours.
Only one problem I have, is the motor compartment cools down, and the motor
controller starts to squeal when I first start up. Also the industrial cog
fan belts go crunch, crunch, crunch as they turn very slowly around pulleys.
In the summer, we get very intense direct sun temperatures, because of our
very dry climate at 3600 feet elevation. My under hood temperature gets up
to or over 140 degrees. I then pop the battery compartment hatch cover up
about 1 inch to ventilated. The maximum battery temperature I read inside
my battery box was 89.9 F.
In a this type of climate, you work out how much time you are expose to the
ambient temperature. In my case, it averages about 15 seconds, which is the
time I get out of my EV which has a cab temperature of about 80 degrees and
be able to walk to inside a building.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: Voltage sag, ultra-cold weather, and a new controller
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Lemke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Voltage sag, ultra-cold weather, and a new controller
>
>
> > I was about to post on this same issue. Here in Southern California, a
> winter day is 75 and night about 60. Last 5 days we have seen 25 at night.
> I
> normally have a 30+ mile range and have never given it a thought for my
> grocery shopping which is 22.5 miles. Yesterday I was coming home from the
> store and had to plug in for 15 minutes 900 feet from home.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hey all,
> > It's 28F outside. c-c-c-cold. My batts. should
> > have a complete charge, and yet I'm sagging down to
> > 122V on my 144V pack, when I'm barely pulling
> > 100-200A. Is this _really_ what EV-ing in cold
> > weather is like? Wow! Am I damaging batteries with
> > such a hard sag? (fortunately for only a 1/3-mile
> > trip)
> > The only other explanation I can think of is that I
> > have a new DCP 1200 controller, but I've turned down
> > the max current to mid-point, so that really (to me)
> > doesn't explain the hard sag.
> > Is there something else I'm missing? This is a
> > _brand new_ set o' batteries!
> > Thanks,
> > Hi Guyz:
>
> Welcome to the wonderful? World of Weather! You left coasters have
> been
> getting away with this for YEARS!Yeah! It sucks, having to live with half
> your range, get used to it, rather than the hassle of insulating your
> battery boxes. If ya do, they get too hot in our(CT) Florida like summers.
> When driving your EV in Cold, like 10-15 degrees, it is pitiful how much
> voltage sag ya get. By driving EVery day the batteries sorta stay warm,
> you
> sure DO notice if you don't use the car for a day, or so.So we prey for
> better batteri, that are indifferent to cold and heat!
>
> My 10 volts drop worth
>
> Bob
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, you are incorrect - a vehicle will NOT run on the alternator alone; been
there, hasn't worked!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Weisenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
> Incorrect- The Alternator provides all the power to an
> ICE electrical system. Once the Car is started it will
> run without a battery. The Alternator provide a
> recharge to the battery while providing power to run
> the rest of the Vehicle. The Voltage regulator provide
> the switch to recharge the battery and maintain it.
> However the battery is only used during the initial
> starting of the vehicle or when it is off. So to run a
> generator to power the ev it has to be big enough to
> power the EV and have enough over head to charge
> batteries which are to be disconnected during the
> charging.
>
> --- "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 19:55 -0700, Roland Wiench
> > wrote:
> > > Hello Jurgen,
> > >
> > > You cannot charge a battery at the same time you
> > are using it. You cannot
> > > make electricity go both ways at the same time.
> >
> > Whaaa? Why? What does a normal automotive
> > alternator do? The
> > alternator charges, the headlights (etc.) discharge.
> > This setup works
> > well because the voltage is regulated at around
> > 14.4V, so the battery
> > won't overcharge. The batteries in this case would
> > act as an extension
> > of the controller's bus capacitors, in the situation
> > where the generator
> > puts out the same power that the car needs to move.
> >
> > So Jurgen, for this setup to work, the charger
> > should try to put out a
> > constant voltage and simply reduce that voltage to
> > keep the power within
> > the generator's limit if necessary. I think Rich
> > Rudman's PFC series
> > can do this. They will keep your generator's
> > electrical section cooler
> > as well (as opposed to a non-PFC charger), because
> > less current has to
> > flow in order to produce the same power - I can
> > detail this more if
> > necessary. PFC = Power Factor Correction.
> >
> > Your charger shouldn't really need to start going
> > until you've driven a
> > few miles, but if the voltage is well-regulated at
> > 14V maximum each
> > battery, then there shouldn't be a problem. I would
> > suggest trying to
> > maintain a 70-80% charge while driving in order to
> > reduce gassing. Just
> > try to copy what the ICE vehicles do, except reduce
> > your voltage just a
> > tad since you have the capacity to make a lot more
> > hydrogen gas. Do
> > make sure there is a venting system running at all
> > times, especially in
> > this case. By my definition, you'll certainly have
> > a plug-in hybrid
> > when you're done. The gas mileage may not be so hot
> > though.
> >
> > - Arthur
> >
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jurgen Schmidt"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:19 PM
> > > Subject: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
> > >
> > >
> > > > I have a portable generator (Dewalt 4300, puts
> > out 15A at 240V) that I
> > > > would like to use as an emergency
> > extender/backup for my pickup EV I'm
> > > > designing. Ideally, I would just load the
> > generator in the bed and plug
> > > > in the on-board charger, when needed.
> > > >
> > > > Questions: Can a typical EV be charged while it
> > is driving? Does this
> > > > require a special charger, or any modifications
> > to the circuitry?
> > > >
> > > > I realize this will not be a true hybrid, or
> > plug-in hybrid, I just want
> > > > to be able to extend the range a little when
> > necessary.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Jurgen Schmidt
> > > > San Antonio, TX
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:14 AM 1/17/2007, Rod Hower wrote:
I think Nick Austin paid $950 to ship my TEVan to
Mountain View when he bought it. I assume the service
And I've had good luck with "Kiwi Karriers" out of Port Townsend, WA.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am with you Jerry. Though for "joe sixpack" or me ;) it is much easier
to get a ready built genset and to hook it up. However, I am sure there
would be a market for purpose built genset-/trailers and I would even
consider to buy one from ACP IF they would still sell it. Sooner or later
I will have to buy another gas car to cover those trips necessary whenever
the EV is not charged or whenever the distance is just too large. I would
rather buy some range-extending equipment.
I have 15 Miles to work (95% on a highway). I usually charge at my work
location. But my truck can do the trip both ways without charge (if I stay
at about 55mph - 60mph). That of course drains the batteries pretty bad
and I wouldn't be able to use the EV for some time until the batteries are
refreshed. On occasion, I have to drive back to work without the time to
charge in between. So - I need a second car to cover those and similar
situations.
The idea of just hooking up a trailer to get juice is .. well, a nice
dream :)
mm.
Jerry Dycus wrote:
>
> Hi Joe and All,
> The earlier posts are some of the worst
> ways to do range extention.
> The real way would be using a real DC gen driven by a low
> polluting motor. This eliminates all the problems below
> being both eff and powerful enough to do any trip.
> For pick ups, a Geo 3cyl motor only weighs
> 125lbs or so that directly coupled to a DC gen like a Shunt
> field version of most any EV motor we use puts out massive
> power without complaint safely and much more eff at a lower
> cost than just a PFC charger needed the other way.
> A reg AC gen is just not going to do the
> job and likely to burn up.
> Regulation is very easy, once the battery
> pack hits a certain voltage like 14.5vdc/6cells of batt, a
> limit circuit turns it off. If you need it again, just hit
> the contactor to the battery pack and the shunt motor/gen
> revs up, starting the gen ICE.
> Done correctly can be a great addition to
> an EV, maybe eliminating the need to keep an ICE too.
> KIS,
> Jerry Dycus
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:42:15 -0800
>
>>Yes, there are problems with using simple, unregulated
>>chargers in a series hybrid:
>>
>>1) When you step on the accelerator to move the vehicle,
>>the battery voltage goes down resulting in an unregulated
>>charger putting too much load on the generator causing it
>>to either overheat or lug down.
>>
>>2) When you lift off the accelerator, the battery voltage
>>goes up, causing the charger to uncontrollably cut back on
>>charge current sometimes overvoltage the controller or
>>overspeed the genset.
>>
>>3) The poor power factor of the simple chargers limits the
>>power out of the genset to about 60% to 80% of the engine
>>power capability before the breakers open or the genset
>>windings burn out.
>>
>>The PFC chargers were built to accommodate the genset
>>charging a battery when it is in use:
>>
>>a) The current limit will prevent overcurrent conditions
>>that would cause damage to the genset.
>>b) The voltage limit will prevent overvoltage damage to the
>>batteries and controller.
>>c) The high power factor will allow pulling rated current
>>from the genset without overheating or lugging either the
>>engine or the generator. d) The charger will maintain a
>>constant power from the genset regardless of battery
>>voltage until the voltage limit is reached. e) The charger
>>will work on a wide voltage range to cover 100 to 250 VAC
>>or VDC input.
>>f) The charger will work on a wide frequency range to allow
>>the engine to be variable speed.
>>
>>The last feature allows the designer to put a solenoid on
>>the throttle to arbitrarily pull the engine back to idle to
>>eliminate the annoying genset noise when stopped in
>>traffic. I would probably connect it to a button or switch
>>in the driver's compartment so he can choose to quiet it to
>>be sensitive to his environment.
>>
>>Sheer Pullen drove his Acura from Seattle to Woodburn
>>powered by a genset on a trailer. He had problems because
>>1) the PFC-50 had not been invented yet, therefore he
>>paralleled three PFC-20s to get enough power to push the
>>car at freeway speeds, 2) his trailer was too high
>>substantially increasing his wind resistance (traction
>>power requirements), and 3) it was a very hot (~100F) day
>>causing the chargers to cut back current when operated in
>>the back seat area.
>>
>>If I were designing the system today, I would recommend: a)
>>a very short trailer that gets the genset out of the wind,
>>b) use a PFC-50B, and c) duct outside air to the charger
>>for cooling.
>>
>>John Wayland did the Red Beastie run up the Columbia river
>>using the ugly box charger. I don't recall the names of
>>other people to run EVs from Seattle to Portland and back.
>>Rich Rudman, John Wayland and Steve Lough should know
>>several others who have done it and report on the lessons
>>learned.
>>
>>Joe Smalley
>>Rural Kitsap County WA
>>Fiesta 48 volts
>>NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: <[email protected]>
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:18 AM
>>Subject: RE: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
>>
>>
>>>
>>> >> Some folks have tried this in the past and destroyed
>>> >> their controllers. I'm not sure why, but I wouldn't
>>advise trying it until you can find out
>>> >> what went wrong and how to avoid it.
>>> >
>>> > I think they forgot that when the let up on the
>>> > accelerator, the generator will send all its power into
>>> > the batteries. If they just start driving (or even
>>> > before they start driving and fire up the generator
>>> > just before taking off) the batteries cannot handle all
>>> > the current while they are full and can go well beyond
>>> > 15V per battery (I have seen AGM batteries go above 16V
>>>with only 10A current)
>>> That's why they run the generator through the charger.
>>> The charger takes care of regulating the charging current
>>> & voltage. As I recall, they suspected some kind of high
>>> level voltage spikes coming from the generator that
>>>somehow go through the charger.
>>> I think John Wayland was one of the folks that tried this
>>> and toasted something. I believe he was using one of
>>> Rich's PFC chargers and one of Otmar's controllers, but
>>>I'm not sure.
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joseph H. Strubhar wrote:
No, you are incorrect - a vehicle will NOT run on the alternator alone; been
there, hasn't worked!
Can you explain a little more why the alternator alone didn't won't work
for you? What problems did you have? If the alternator weren't
supplying enough energy to supply the electrical needs and keep the
battery charged, then it seems that a car's SLI battery would run down
and die quickly. I understand that the alternator sometimes can't
supply momentary inrush current, as when lights are first turned on or
the power steering pump demands energy. But if I run for 8 hours
overnight, with the high beams on, the wipers going, AC pumping away,
stereo blasting and power steering pump drawing power as I round sharp
curves mountain passes, it seems like the alternator would have to be
supplying enough energy, on average, to run everything, else the battery
would soon go kaput.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:53 AM 1/17/2007, Joseph H. Strubhar wrote:
No, you are incorrect - a vehicle will NOT run on the alternator alone; been
there, hasn't worked!
Then your car was broken.
Once started, a car had better be able to run off just the
alternator! If it can't, then it means that it is drawing more power
than the alt provides, and will be constantly discharging the battery.
Note that I HAVE done the "jump start a car without a battery, remove
the jumper cables, drive home" thing.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
When I worked at GE-EV 96-99' (until they got out of EV's) I worked on the GE
golf cart controllers which were Club Car and Yamaha. the Club Car's wher
about 3/4ths the size as the more powerful one we made for Yamaha. GE made
both the controllers & motors. The Yamaha controller will hit the club car
motor a bit harder with current, 200A instead of about 160 on demand but should
be ok in your application.
The GEM is a 72V version of the Yamaha controller. I integrated my charger
in see patent number 6,218,812 but the opted for a Saft similar resonant mode
charger.
Have a renewable energy day,
Mark
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:03:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Jeff Major"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: controller/motor match To:
[email protected] Plain Text Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer |
Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]
Hi Carl, Most golf car motors referred to as "regen" are separately
excited and require a separately excited controller. I am not familiar with
Yamaha controllers. Curtis and Sevcon make controllers for separately
excited motors. You will need to program the controller to match the motor
and application. I have done this with a GE Club Car sep-ex motor and could
help. Jeff Carl Clifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi List,
I have a 48v regen motor from a 2000 Club Car golf cart and a YAMAHA 48 VOLT
G-19 controller. I am converting a motorcycle and would like to pair these
but am wondering if anyone can tell me whether they will match well or I
should wait to find a either a Club Car controller or a Yamaha motor to match
the other. Thanks Carl Denver
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
