EV Digest 6313
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Altairnano battery - group buy?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Fwd: RE: A little bit OT: Dashboard gauge needle / pointer
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Rev Counter
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Altairnano battery - group buy?
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Altairnano battery - group buy?
by "Stuart Friedrich and Wendy Lyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: T105 vs. T125
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Rev Counter
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Rev Counter with programmable prescaler
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) where to start
by Rachael Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) New controller and voltage sag: What am I missing?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: where to start
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
by "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Test
by "James F. Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: where to start
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) EEstore press release
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I wouldn't spend $20K on Saft BB600s either, they are usually picked up
surpluss for much, much less. It is the SAFT STM modules that cost multiple
thousands of dollars, but from what I have heard they are worth the
investment. There is a certain manufacturing period that seemed
questionable, but if you go directly to SAFT and buy them brand new like
some others on the list have they are one of the best options. Bill Dube is
quite pleased with his, and I believe he spent less than $20K.
damon
From: "Stuart Friedrich and Wendy Lyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Altairnano battery - group buy?
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:54:53 -0500
Since Altairnano appears to be equipped to manufacture their batteries in
sufficient quantities to supply Phoenix, what is the chance they would
consider a purchase from the public? If enough interested group members
were to put in a consolidated order of say $100 - 200K, would they be
interested? I am willing to spend $20K on a battery pack, but am not
willing to spend this on Saft/BB600 NiCds or Thundersky Lion based on what
I have read of their issues. Does anyone have any insider information
about likely availability of the Altairnano batteries?
_________________________________________________________________
Share your opinion and enter to win! Please complete this survey to enter
into a draw for a grand prize of $500 or one of twenty $50 cash prizes.
http://www.youthographyinsiders.com/R.aspx?a=116
_________________________________________________________________
Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping
Sales & Deals
http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200639
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hot glue?
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 12:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: A little bit OT: Dashboard gauge needle / pointer
Tried that already -- the shaft holes in the clock hands are much too
large, by a factor of 5 or 10. The meter shaft is .0235", and tapered.
The hole you need is essentially a pinhole.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 17 Jan 2007 at 11:29, Bill Dennis wrote:
> I'm asking because I want to compare the situation to running an
> alternator off the tailshaft of a traction motor. Just trying to understand
> why an alternator alone couldn't supply enough energy on average
Sorry Bill, I was referring to the continuing exchange about running an ICE
without an SLI battery. I took your post as part of that discussion. My
mistake.
As I posted before, Assuming you're talking about a means of obtaining 12v
power for standard accessories - lights, wipers, etc. - I don't see any real
problem with what you propose. It's been done successfully.
Downsides : a typical automotive alternator is less efficient than a good
DC:DC, it weighs more, it takes up more space under the hood, and it's less
flexible in its mounting.
OTOH, in a conversion you usually get one "free."
If none of the negatives presents an insurmountable problem in your situation,
it certainly can't hurt to try it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Tachometer" is a bit weird, as "Tachos" in greek for "speed," so a
"Tachometer" is really a "Speedometer" Maybe "Vertometer" would be
better? From the Latin "Verto", "to turn". But then again, a vertometer
is something used by ophthalmologists to measure lenses.
Chris wrote:
Revolution counter to ships captains, tachometer to automotive
technicians, repetitive event rate monitor and display unit to
scientists !
Trivial and available elsewhere, but very useful all the same.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
> Dave, I'm asking because I want to compare the situation to running an
> alternator off the tailshaft of a traction motor. Just trying to
> understand why an alternator alone couldn't supply enough energy on
> average.
>
> Hope that clarifies.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
Hello Bill,
This is exactly what I am doing in my EV. It is not a standard alternator
that is use for a standard vehicle. A alternator with a fixed voltage built
in regulator keeps a standard cranking battery charge between 75 to 85%. It
is only needed to run a starting motor for about 5 seconds, therefore
battery is not discharge very deep.
In my EV, I am using a Delco Model No. 1117152 that is equipped with a
(field+), (field-) and (trio) terminals for with 120-volt, 60 Hz power
inverters (such as manufactured by the Dynamote Corporation) with a maximum
rated output of 6kw and can supply current for 12-volt charging at the same
time. The 12 volt current is rectified in the inverter for this, or you can
plug in a 12 smart charger into it.
When the field + and - is connected together, then it provides 13.5 to 15.5
vdc out and when the these fields are disconnected, then it provides 110 vdc
7kw at alternator terminals.
The internal regulator has external adjustments where you can adjust the 12
VDC output to any voltage from 13.5 to 15.5 volts. You still need a 12 volt
accessory battery for this alternator, so it can excited the fields to bring
up the voltage.
With this type of alternator in my EV, I am using a Trojan SCS 12 V 130 AH
deep cycle battery. I can allow this battery to discharge to about 60% by
turning of the regulator circuit, (12 volts is switch off to the alternator
R Terminal). The alternator is free spinning with out any load and the
accessory battery is supplying the load.
When the battery voltage drops to about 11 volts, then a voltage relay
applied a 12V battery voltage to the R-terminal which turns on the regulator
to start to charge the battery.
The pilot shaft of the main motor does not turn this alternator-inverter
unit, A/C unit, and vacuum pump anytime the main motor is under load. The
main motor is only connected to the accessory drive unit through a electric
clutch made from a 12 V A/C clutch. Any time the main motor ampere goes to 0
amps and the rpm is above 0 rpm, then the clutch is engaged, which I control
by a selector switch (Auto-Off-On). It then turns off two accessory
electric motors that are power by the main battery pack.
I have over 10 indicators on my dash plates that will show 0 motor amps, 0
battery amps, but indicates, 110 VAC 80 Hz, 110 VDC to the inverter, 12 Volt
and ampere from the alternator to the battery, alternator to the
accessories, and battery to the accessories. There is isolation diodes that
prevent feed back, so I can read how much current is each circuit uses.
Anytime the motor ampere comes up, then the clutch will disengaged with a 15
second time delay, so I do not get short cycling which can cause undo
accessory motor surges.
So there is no additional load on the motor any time the EV is under power
by the main motor. It is only connected to the accessory drive unit after
about 15 seconds of delay time on the accelerator control unit.
This is what I call Mechanical REGEN.
Before I did a complete mod on this EV in 2002, installing a Zilla, PFC-50
and new batteries, This alternator-inverter system would connect to a
onboard multi voltage battery charger, that was built into the EV, which
could charge the batteries some what while the batteries where disconnected
from the controller.
This is how the REGEN braking was done.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since Altairnano appears to be equipped to manufacture
their batteries
in
sufficient quantities to supply Phoenix, what is the
chance they would
consider a purchase from the public? If enough
interested group
members
were to put in a consolidated order of say $100 -
200K, would they be
interested? I am willing to spend $20K on a battery
pack, but am not
willing to spend this on Saft/BB600 NiCds or
Thundersky Lion based on
what I
have read of their issues. Does anyone have any
insider information
about
likely availability of the Altairnano batteries?
I tried to get a deal with them. They have an
exclusive with Phoenix Motorcars for 2 years. I
believe the deal has 18 or more months left on it.
That would preclude anyone else from getting them till
then.
Gadget
visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com,
and coming soon leftcoastelectic.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the information Damon. The issue I have with the NiCd batteries
is that their energy density (Whr/kg), while better than lead-acid, is still
quite a bit lower than Lion. The NiCd also has a lower max discharge rate.
If I'm going to make a significant investment, I want to make sure I've done
my best to explore all the options. I know getting my hands on the
Altairnano battery is a likely a long shot, but I want to know if anyone
knows otherwise if a person was willing to make a significant $$ purchase.
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Altairnano battery - group buy?
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:00:40 +0000
I wouldn't spend $20K on Saft BB600s either, they are usually picked up
surpluss for much, much less. It is the SAFT STM modules that cost multiple
thousands of dollars, but from what I have heard they are worth the
investment. There is a certain manufacturing period that seemed
questionable, but if you go directly to SAFT and buy them brand new like
some others on the list have they are one of the best options. Bill Dube is
quite pleased with his, and I believe he spent less than $20K.
damon
From: "Stuart Friedrich and Wendy Lyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Altairnano battery - group buy?
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:54:53 -0500
Since Altairnano appears to be equipped to manufacture their batteries in
sufficient quantities to supply Phoenix, what is the chance they would
consider a purchase from the public? If enough interested group members
were to put in a consolidated order of say $100 - 200K, would they be
interested? I am willing to spend $20K on a battery pack, but am not
willing to spend this on Saft/BB600 NiCds or Thundersky Lion based on what
I have read of their issues. Does anyone have any insider information
about likely availability of the Altairnano batteries?
_________________________________________________________________
Share your opinion and enter to win! Please complete this survey to enter
into a draw for a grand prize of $500 or one of twenty $50 cash prizes.
http://www.youthographyinsiders.com/R.aspx?a=116
_________________________________________________________________
Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping
Sales & Deals
http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200639
_________________________________________________________________
Buy, Load, Play. The new Sympatico / MSN Music Store works seamlessly with
Windows Media Player. Just Click PLAY.
http://musicstore.sympatico.msn.ca/content/viewer.aspx?cid=SMS_Sept192006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Frank wrote -
> Hi All:
>
> I've seen where a lot of conversions use T105's and others use T125's. The
> Trojan specs I've seen show that they're the same size but the 125's have
> higher capacity. Can anyone explain the advantage (if any) of using the
> 105's instead of the 125's?
>
Frank,
I did a spread sheet for the 3 different batteries here is part of it. This is
for a 180 V pack, 30 batteries, so adjust accordingly.
(View with a fixed width font)
C20 amps C1 amps Wts 50% DOD 300whr/mile 250whr/mile lbs tot lbs
T-105 225 128.2 23085 11542 38.48 46.17 62 1488
T-125 240 136.8 24624 12312 41.04 49.248 66 1980
T-145 260 148.2 26676 13338 44.46 53.352 72 2160
I found that the 125's were best for me. They, hopefully if my calcs are right,
will give me the range I want and the weight is acceptable. The 145's would
have given me more range and also more weight, which I could have lived with,
but the price became too much.
Also the watts per pound are just a little better on the 125's, so again that
was a consideration.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
www.Airphibian.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well for one thing, unless you idle the traction motor continuously, you
won't have any electric power for your accessories when stopped.
Your lights & wipers won't work when stopped. Unless it's really old,
your radio will need to be reprogrammed everytime you start. No emergency
blinkers when you break down. No dome light, etc.
If you idle your traction motor just to power your accessories, then it
draws a relatively large amount of power compared to what it produces.
If you have frequent stops, this energy drain will reduce you range more
than the weight from an added accessory battery.
Oh yeah, your main contactor needs power to engage in order to turn on the
controller and traction motor.
You'd need to either bypass the contactor, tap your traction pack, or do
something else equally silly and possibly dangerous.
Use an accessory battery, especially if you are going to use an alternator
instead of a DC/DC converter.
> Dave, I'm asking because I want to compare the situation to running an
> alternator off the tailshaft of a traction motor. Just trying to
> understand why an alternator alone couldn't supply enough energy on
> average.
>
> Hope that clarifies.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> David Roden wrote:
>> On 17 Jan 2007 at 8:41, Bill Dennis wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Can you explain a little more why the alternator alone didn't won't
>>> work for
>>> you? What problems did you have?
>>>
>>
>> Excuse me for interrupting, but please remember that this is a list for
>>
>>>> ELECTRIC VEHICLES<<. Please discuss ICEVs in private email, not here
>>>> on
>>>>
>> the list.
>>
>> Thanks for your understanding.
>>
>>
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EV List Administrator
>>
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
>> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
>> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
>> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All,
While I was ordering some stuff from www.surplussales.com, I notice that
they have a solid state digital Rev Counter. There are brand new and so
cheap, about $10.00, I told them to send me one. I ask the tech, if there
is a sender for these units. They said, all they have is about 5000 of
these in stock and nothing else.
These unit which is a manufacture P/N H7ER-60 or Surplus Sales No.
7631-5P1DC. It has four terminals on it. One set is to be used as counter
with a switching power source of 5-24 volts DC.
The other set of terminals for a tachometer readout using 4.5 to 30 volts DC
from a Programmable Prescaler which did not come with it.
On the counter side, you input a 5 to 24 v input from any type of sensor,
magnetic or other type of switch and lets say its counts 1200 pulse in 1
minute then this is 1200/1 = 1200 rpm.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: Rev Counter
> "Tachometer" is a bit weird, as "Tachos" in greek for "speed," so a
> "Tachometer" is really a "Speedometer" Maybe "Vertometer" would be
> better? From the Latin "Verto", "to turn". But then again, a vertometer
> is something used by ophthalmologists to measure lenses.
>
> Chris wrote:
> > Revolution counter to ships captains, tachometer to automotive
> > technicians, repetitive event rate monitor and display unit to
> > scientists !
> >
> > Trivial and available elsewhere, but very useful all the same.
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An alternator puts out very little current at idle. The ICE vehicle
accessories will draw more current at idle than what the alternator puts
out, so will pull current from the battery until the engine speeds up so the
alternator supplies sufficient current to run the accessories and put
current back into the battery. An alternator run off the tailshaft of an EV
works the same way. When stopped, everything runs off the accessory
battery. When the motor speeds up, the alternator produces electricity to
run the accessories and recharge the accessory battery.
Dave
From: Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 11:29:09 -0700
Dave, I'm asking because I want to compare the situation to running an
alternator off the tailshaft of a traction motor. Just trying to
understand why an alternator alone couldn't supply enough energy on
average.
Hope that clarifies.
Bill Dennis
David Roden wrote:
On 17 Jan 2007 at 8:41, Bill Dennis wrote:
Can you explain a little more why the alternator alone didn't won't work
for
you? What problems did you have?
Excuse me for interrupting, but please remember that this is a list for
ELECTRIC VEHICLES<<. Please discuss ICEVs in private email, not here on
the list.
Thanks for your understanding.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note:
mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a
private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
_________________________________________________________________
Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: Rev Counter
It does have a Programmable Prescaler, it is built right in and you
calibrated with a small screw driver. The wiring diagram show this as a
external unit, so I thought it needed a extra component.
> Hello All,
>
> While I was ordering some stuff from www.surplussales.com, I notice that
> they have a solid state digital Rev Counter. There are brand new and so
> cheap, about $10.00, I told them to send me one. I ask the tech, if there
> is a sender for these units. They said, all they have is about 5000 of
> these in stock and nothing else.
>
> These unit which is a manufacture P/N H7ER-60 or Surplus Sales No.
> 7631-5P1DC. It has four terminals on it. One set is to be used as
> counter with a switching power source of 5-24 volts DC.
>
> The other set of terminals for a tachometer readout using 4.5 to 30 volts
> DC from a Programmable Prescaler which did not come with it.
>
> On the counter side, you input a 5 to 24 v input from any type of sensor,
> magnetic or other type of switch and lets say its counts 1200 pulse in 1
> minute then this is 1200/1 = 1200 rpm.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Rev Counter
>
>
> > "Tachometer" is a bit weird, as "Tachos" in greek for "speed," so a
> > "Tachometer" is really a "Speedometer" Maybe "Vertometer" would be
> > better? From the Latin "Verto", "to turn". But then again, a vertometer
> > is something used by ophthalmologists to measure lenses.
> >
> > Chris wrote:
> > > Revolution counter to ships captains, tachometer to automotive
> > > technicians, repetitive event rate monitor and display unit to
> > > scientists !
> > >
> > > Trivial and available elsewhere, but very useful all the same.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich wrote:
Hey Wayland..
Should we finally tell the list the whole story about the Red Beastie charge
cart effort, the all day charger Flambe and electrocution Field day?
I am not sure the list is ready for a Flash back to the Good old days of the
The Ammo Box charger, the Ugly box charger and the Gen cart from Hell.
Man the old thing is covered with Blackberry vines and sits molding in my
back yard. Wow..Remember when......
Before PFC anything chargers, just variacs and manual throttle controls.
Pat Sweeny's place with 50 amp cables going everywheres... Busted this
broken that, Diodes on fire....Coolant leaking every where...
And...Nobody got killed, or even slightly maimed.
Madman
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Please do! I believe that the gen cart from hell may now be in my possession-
an old Onan generator on a harbor freight trailer, complete with an ammo box
cable cubby that bears a very Rudmanesque resemblance. Curious to hear what
kind of power you actually got out of that rig back in the day, before I put
too much energy into resurrecting it.
Thanks,
Jay Donnaway
www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free
AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Just joined the list. I have a Nissan 240 sx that I'd like to convert to an
EV. I'm wondering where does someone start with a project like this?
I know this is such a "newbie" question, but any suggestions, advice, help
would be greatly appreciated.
Rachael
---------------------------------
Never Miss an Email
Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I set my shunt up to read battery amps, not motor
amps.
I run a 144V pack.
When I climb a huge hill, my voltage readings go
higher than when I'm pulling a lighter load on a
straightaway! This makes no sense to me!
Perhaps the issue is now that I have a 1200A
controller, I now need a 1000A shunt? Could this be
causing the extra hard voltage sag readings?
Thanks,
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rachel, and welcome to the list.
I started with Mike Brown's "Convert It" book.
(www.electroauto.com)
Also, wikipedia has lots of good information.
After that, if you're looking for "easy," check
www.evalbum.com, because there may be another Nissan
240sx so that you can have a general idea of where
every component should/can be mounted. This is in
fact, the reason I selected the Honda Civic. Someone
had already "been there, done that". I asked them for
some video, and basically copied their design.
Hope that helps, and keep asking questions. I hope
the car is a stick, and that you've checked your
average daily commutes.
peace,
--- Rachael Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hi,
> Just joined the list. I have a Nissan 240 sx that
> I'd like to convert to an EV. I'm wondering where
> does someone start with a project like this?
> I know this is such a "newbie" question, but any
> suggestions, advice, help would be greatly
> appreciated.
> Rachael
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never Miss an Email
> Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get
> started!
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You sire will stand corrected!!!
I Have the gen cart from Hell!!!
Me me Mine MINE MINE!
You may have Plasma Boys little toy..... Dinky 2200 watt toy..
Snort!
Mine made 25kw... Made a lot of noise and ate most of the electronics...just
with vibrations.
I has a Geo Metro 3 cycler engine .. and a 25 Kw aircraft alternator that we
belted up 2.75:1 so we could run it at 8000 rpm with 2500 rpm of engine
speed.
The bearings would heat up just with speed and no load. At 8K you really
should have oil cooled bearings.
Now days I would know that less RPM would be just fine with some forced air
cooling. And since we rectified it ,Hz really would not matter, Then
Boost/Buck it with a PFC75 and you have a large version of the Honda
inverter based Genset, Cept we don't try to make AC with it.
Even with out the PFC75 it would still make a really good 96v to 150v
throttle controlled charger.
Man I need to get that thing running again.
Hey anyone out there in EV land have a TDI Engine, That needs a
charger......
We have a BioDiesel production shop going
Madman.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
> Rich wrote:
> Hey Wayland..
> Should we finally tell the list the whole story about the Red Beastie
charge
> cart effort, the all day charger Flambe and electrocution Field day?
>
> I am not sure the list is ready for a Flash back to the Good old days of
the
> The Ammo Box charger, the Ugly box charger and the Gen cart from Hell.
>
> Man the old thing is covered with Blackberry vines and sits molding in my
> back yard. Wow..Remember when......
>
> Before PFC anything chargers, just variacs and manual throttle controls.
>
> Pat Sweeny's place with 50 amp cables going everywheres... Busted this
> broken that, Diodes on fire....Coolant leaking every where...
>
> And...Nobody got killed, or even slightly maimed.
>
> Madman
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
> -Please do! I believe that the gen cart from hell may now be in my
possession- an old Onan generator on a harbor freight trailer, complete with
an ammo box cable cubby that bears a very Rudmanesque resemblance. Curious
to hear what kind of power you actually got out of that rig back in the day,
before I put too much energy into resurrecting it.
> Thanks,
> Jay Donnaway
> www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web,
free AOL Mail and more.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw emails to follow up a question from an EVer about using a portable
generator as
an onboard on-the-go charger. This idea generated a lot of comments. The
general opinion
is the idea is not very beneficial.
The idea of a crude series hybrid is still very appealing. It would be better
if it didn't
pollute.
The goal is a series hybrid EV, with better range than just with batteries but
also
non-polluting, non greenhouse gases etc. Charge on the fly means not needing to
stop
for an 'overnight' charge.
Would it work better with a portable fuel cell, if one were available?
Availability is
crucial, I
know, and I'm not sure if fuel cells are as available as generators are.
This might pose a space problem. There may be not enough spare space to put 10
batteries,
motor, controller and an APU of any size in a small car or a truck.
If there were two battery strings, could you charge one with an APU and drive
off the
other
string thru the electric motor?
Steve -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 1:04 AM
> Subject: Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
>
> > A quick Google search reveals some pleasing results:
> > http://www.acpropulsion.com/PDF files/Low_Emiss_Range_Ext.pdf
> > Firstly, let's consider the PDF file. It is soon clear that even though
> > they mention taking the batteries to nearly 100% SOC, there is no
> > disconnection of the controller from the batteries. This isn't a small
> > generator, either (20kW). My advice to the novice is to make sure their
> > controller is rated to handle as high as 15V per battery, otherwise it
> > could get blown.
> > http://www.madkatz.com/acpropulsion/longRanger.html
> > The longRanger.html gives a nice overview of the pricey (~$10,000 I
> > believe) AC Propulsion generator trailer. This is helpful, because
> > along with the "white paper" PDF, it gives the details that you'd need
> > in order to implement something like this properly.
> > http://www.evnut.com/rav_longranger.htm
> > The third link surprised me the most:
> > > Amazingly, even with all the conversion losses added up, the gas
> > > mileage of this combo is comparable or BETTER than the pure gasoline
> > > version of the same vehicle.
> > Clearly, someone has done their homework in implementing a good
> > overall system (mostly Alan Cocconi). It might not be practical for the
> > hobbyist to achieve better fuel economy, but seeing a working version
> > of a trailer and having its parameters should at least help set reasonable
> > goals and expectations.
>
> > David Roden wrote: > >
> The key is understanding the battery and genset as a system. If it's
> configured correctly, when the vehicle is using more energy than the genset
> can provide, it draws down the battery; when it is using less than the
> genset can provide, genset energy flows into the battery. You have created
> a crude hybrid. So yes, it may get you a bit more range.
> But is it practical? Not very.
> > For the inexperienced hobbyist or "newbie," I agree.
> > But there may be situations where you'd want to supply remote power
> > (tools), and wouldn't want to run down your pack. It is an interesting
> > idea,
> > and especially so if you could run it on ethanol or biodiesel. Being a
> > student,
> > 90% of my driving is under five miles. A trailer would be very useful if I
> > had
> > a roadworthy EV.
> > - Arthur
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 12:32 AM Subject: Re: Charging while driving
> [JGS-EV]
>
> > Technically, you both are correct, or both wrong depending on how you look
> > at it. It IS possible to have a generator connected to the batteries while
> > they
> > are being used. It is NOT possible to charge and discharge a battery at
> > the same time.
>
> > If the current from the generator is more than the load on the battery,
> > the surplus will go towards charging the battery. The battery will charge
> > and the generator will power the load as well as charge the battery.
> > If the load exceeds the output from the generator, then the battery will
> > discharge. The battery will provide part of the power for the load, the
> > generator will provide the rest.
> > So, yes you can connect a generator will driving, but no you can't charge
> > and discharge the battery at the same time.
>
> > Does it take a special charger? Maybe.
> > Some folks have tried this in the past and destroyed their controllers.
> > I'm not sure why, but I wouldn't advise trying it until you can find out
> > what went wrong and how to avoid it.
> > FWIW other folks have done this with no problems.
>
> > >> You cannot charge a battery at the same time you are using it. You
> > >> cannot make electricity go both ways at the same time.
> > > Whaaa? Why? What does a normal automotive alternator do? The
> > > alternator charges, the headlights (etc.) discharge. This setup works
> > > well because the voltage is regulated at around 14.4V, so the battery
> > > won't overcharge. The batteries in this case would act as an extension
> > > of the controller's bus capacitors, in the situation where the generator
> > > puts out the same power that the car needs to move.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 11:39 PM Subject: Re: Charging while driving
> [JGS-EV]
>
> On 15 Jan 2007 at 20:19, Jurgen Schmidt wrote:
> > I have a portable generator (Dewalt 4300, puts out 15A at 240V) that I
> > would like to use as an emergency extender/backup for my pickup EV I'm
> > designing. Ideally, I would just load the generator in the bed and plug
> > in the on-board charger, when needed.
>
> We get this on the EVDL a couple times a month, usually from EV beginners.
> "I have an idea. I'll I use a portable genset as a range extender!"
> Yes, you can do it, sort of. Roland Wiench replies "You cannot charge a
> battery at the same time you are using it," but that's a misleading
> statement. The key is understanding the battery and genset as a system. If
> it's
> configured correctly, when the vehicle is using more energy than the genset
> can provide, it draws down the battery; when it is using less than the
> genset can provide, genset energy flows into the battery. You have created
> a crude hybrid.
> So yes, it may get you a bit more range. But is it practical? Not very.
>
> A Solectria Force, a very efficient conversion, needs about 6-7kW - almost
> double your genset's output - just to maintain 45mph. You can bet your
> truck will require appreciably more. Even if your genset could put out the
> claimed 3600 Watts, which it probably can't and almost certainly not
> continuously, it still wouldn't keep up with real-world driving.
> The best you can hope for is a few more miles of range; then you'd have to
> stop and let the genset catch up. But you probably wouldn't want to hang
> around the truck while it did that, thanks to the noise and vibration.
> It would also produce gross air pollution, hundreds of times as much as an
> ICE would produce. Do you care? And with the typical portable genset
> you're unlikely to even approach the fuel efficiency of the ICE. Do you
> care?
>
> If the destination isn't within range of your EV, believe me, you're better
> off borrowing or renting an ICE.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Administrator
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
>
> > Hello Jurgen,
> > You cannot charge a battery at the same time you are using it. You cannot
> > make electricity go both ways at the same time.
> > Charging is from negative plates of a battery to the positive plates and
> > discharge to a load is from the positive to the negative of a battery.
> > A on board generator can done several ways: One: Stop the vehicle,
> > disconnect the battery from the load and charge it with a smaller generator.
> > Two, it is possible to charge the batteries, while the vehicle is coasting
> > down a long hill while the batteries are disconnected from controller.
> > This is one of the methods I use with a on board alternator-inverter that
> > provides 120 VAC 60 HZ at 7KW, that is mechanical rotating by the
> > coasting force of the EV while the batteries are disconnected from the
> > controller. Three, a very large motor generator, that can provide the power
> > to the controller and motor and charge the batteries while they are
> > disconnected from the controller.
>
> > In my EV, called Transformer, I was transported over 600 miles using a 3
> > phase generator rated at 37.5 KW at 240 VAC Delta 60 HZ. This voltage was
> > fed into a 900 amp three phase full wave bridge that had a output of 280
> > volts at about 300 amps per phase.
> > The AC output was control by a Size 4 Magnetic 3 pole magnetic
> > contactor and the DC side was control by four CableForm 600 amp DC
> > contactors. Two contactors are use to disconnect from the generator and two
> > contactors (call safety contactors) are use to disconnect the batteries from
> > controller. There is also another 2 pole 50 amp contactor to disconnect the
> > regular on board charger from this circuit.
>
> > The motor generator was in a stream line trailer that I pull with the EV. It
> > uses a 8 wire aircraft power cable and 300 amp plug made my Power Anderson
> > that is 4/0 4 wire and four No. 10 awg control wires that is about 2.5 inch
> > in diameter. So the only thing you can do with your 20 amp 120 generator,
> > is
> > to charge the batteries while the batteries are not under load.
>
> > Roland
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jurgen Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:19 PM
> > Subject: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
>
> > > I have a portable generator (Dewalt 4300, puts out 15A at 240V) that I
> > > would like to use as an emergency extender/backup for my pickup EV I'm
> > > designing. Ideally, I would just load the generator in the bed and plug
> > > in the on-board charger, when needed.
> > > Questions: Can a typical EV be charged while it is driving? Does this
> > > require a special charger, or any modifications to the circuitry?
> > > I realize this will not be a true hybrid, or plug-in hybrid, I just want
> > > to be able to extend the range a little when necessary.
>
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jurgen Schmidt
> > > San Antonio, TX
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Test please disregard
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh boy you are in luck! There are a few 240SXs that have been converted and
are some of the fastest EVs out there. (see http://www.jouleinjected.com/ )
Here is the approximate steps:
1. What is your budget? $5,000 will work for a commuter, $12,000 should
get a very fast DC car.
2. What do you want to do? Commute, just drive around town?
3. How far do you want to go? 30mi, 50mi 100mi?
4. Take a read at evparts.com the FAQ, lots of good info.
5. There are also some good web sites, goto evalbum.com and check out the
240sx
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
---------------------------------------------------
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong
man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit
belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by
dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short
again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming,
but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself
for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high
achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while
daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid
souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." - Teddy Roosevelt
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rachael Myers
Sent: January 17, 2007 4:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: where to start
Hi,
Just joined the list. I have a Nissan 240 sx that I'd like to convert to
an EV. I'm wondering where does someone start with a project like this?
I know this is such a "newbie" question, but any suggestions, advice, help
would be greatly appreciated.
Rachael
---------------------------------
Never Miss an Email
Stay connected with Yahoo! Mail on your mobile. Get started!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If this isn't just hot air, it sure sounds like they're making good progress.
------------
CEDAR PARK, TEXAS -- (MARKET WIRE) -- January 17, 2007 -- The first
EEStor, Inc. automated production line has been proven to meet the
requirements for precise chemical delivery, purity control, parameter
control and stability.
In addition, EEStor, Inc. has completed the initial milestone of
certifying purification, concentration, and stability of all of its
key production chemicals notably the attainment of 99.9994% purity of
its barium nitrate powder.
The independent 3rd party chemical analysis was completed by Southwest
Research Institute, Inc. located in San Antonio, Texas under contract
with EEStor, Inc.
With these milestones completed, EEStor, Inc. is now in the process of
producing on its automated production line, composition-modified
barium titanate powders and is moving toward completing its next major
milestone of powder certification.
It is anticipated that the relative permittivity of the current powder
will-either meet and/or exceed 18,500, the previous level achieved
when EEStor, Inc. produced prototype components using it engineering
level processing equipment.
Richard Weir, CEO and President of EEStor, Inc. added: "We are very
proud of the key advancements we have made over the past year. In
addition to the milestones identified, the Company has also been
awarded a critical patent related to our technology and has 12
additional patents pending. We have built a state-of-the-art facility
and have exceptional personnel onboard."
The first commercial application of the EESU is intended to be used in
electric vehicles under a technology agreement with ZENN Motors
Company. EEStor, Inc. remains on track to begin shipping production 15
kilowatt-hour Electrical Energy Storage Units (EESU) to ZENN Motor
Company in 2007 for use in their electric vehicles. The production
EESU for ZENN Motor Company will function to specification in
operating environments as sever as negative 20 to plus 65 degrees
Celsius, will weigh less than 100 pounds, and will have ability to be
recharged in a matter of minutes.
ABOUT EEStor, Inc.
Headquartered in Cedar Park, Texas, EEStor, Inc. is dedicated to the
design, development, and manufacturing of high-density energy storage
devices. Utilizing revolutionary ultra capacitor architecture and
environmentally friendly materials the EEStor, Inc. EESU will compete
against all existing battery technologies. The EEStor, Inc. EESU IS
capable of microsecond recharging and millions of 100%
charge/discharge cycles. The technology is affordable and designed for
versatile "racked and stacked" configurations.
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
