EV Digest 6314
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: NOISY SLOW Volt Video
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Funding a conversion
by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Altairnano battery - group buy?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) RE: Battery technology
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Another Reason for Ultracaps
by "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Motor Clamp for Prestolite Motor
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Altairnano battery - group buy?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: NOISY SLOW Volt Video
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Battery Beach Burnout/6th EVer Special Update
by "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: NOISY SLOW Volt Video
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: where to start
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: APUs vs multi-vehicles (was : BBS?)
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Funding a conversion
by "Cory R. Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Motor Clamp for Prestolite Motor
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Pictures of MES DEA system, anyone using this?
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Got the Grin
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Funding a conversion
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Funding a conversion
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This was probbly what happened to me - The alternator either wasn't putting
out enough amps, or the regulator was messed up.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
> I've had to do this and it does work as long as you turn off all the
> electrical accessories. If you try to draw more current than the
alternator
> can put out, the engine dies. Generally will happen at idle. Had a
battery
> stolen out of an ICE while in college. Had to jump it to start it, then
> drove it home without a battery so I could put in new cables and a new
> battery. Went about 30 miles without a battery.
>
> Dave
>
>
> >From: "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Subject: Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
> >Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 06:53:21 -0800
> >
> >No, you are incorrect - a vehicle will NOT run on the alternator alone;
> >been
> >there, hasn't worked!
> >
> >Joseph H. Strubhar
> >
> >E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >Web: www.gremcoinc.com
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Bruce Weisenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 8:07 PM
> >Subject: Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
> >
> >
> > > Incorrect- The Alternator provides all the power to an
> > > ICE electrical system. Once the Car is started it will
> > > run without a battery. The Alternator provide a
> > > recharge to the battery while providing power to run
> > > the rest of the Vehicle. The Voltage regulator provide
> > > the switch to recharge the battery and maintain it.
> > > However the battery is only used during the initial
> > > starting of the vehicle or when it is off. So to run a
> > > generator to power the ev it has to be big enough to
> > > power the EV and have enough over head to charge
> > > batteries which are to be disconnected during the
> > > charging.
> > >
> > > --- "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 19:55 -0700, Roland Wiench
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Hello Jurgen,
> > > > >
> > > > > You cannot charge a battery at the same time you
> > > > are using it. You cannot
> > > > > make electricity go both ways at the same time.
> > > >
> > > > Whaaa? Why? What does a normal automotive
> > > > alternator do? The
> > > > alternator charges, the headlights (etc.) discharge.
> > > > This setup works
> > > > well because the voltage is regulated at around
> > > > 14.4V, so the battery
> > > > won't overcharge. The batteries in this case would
> > > > act as an extension
> > > > of the controller's bus capacitors, in the situation
> > > > where the generator
> > > > puts out the same power that the car needs to move.
> > > >
> > > > So Jurgen, for this setup to work, the charger
> > > > should try to put out a
> > > > constant voltage and simply reduce that voltage to
> > > > keep the power within
> > > > the generator's limit if necessary. I think Rich
> > > > Rudman's PFC series
> > > > can do this. They will keep your generator's
> > > > electrical section cooler
> > > > as well (as opposed to a non-PFC charger), because
> > > > less current has to
> > > > flow in order to produce the same power - I can
> > > > detail this more if
> > > > necessary. PFC = Power Factor Correction.
> > > >
> > > > Your charger shouldn't really need to start going
> > > > until you've driven a
> > > > few miles, but if the voltage is well-regulated at
> > > > 14V maximum each
> > > > battery, then there shouldn't be a problem. I would
> > > > suggest trying to
> > > > maintain a 70-80% charge while driving in order to
> > > > reduce gassing. Just
> > > > try to copy what the ICE vehicles do, except reduce
> > > > your voltage just a
> > > > tad since you have the capacity to make a lot more
> > > > hydrogen gas. Do
> > > > make sure there is a venting system running at all
> > > > times, especially in
> > > > this case. By my definition, you'll certainly have
> > > > a plug-in hybrid
> > > > when you're done. The gas mileage may not be so hot
> > > > though.
> > > >
> > > > - Arthur
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Jurgen Schmidt"
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:19 PM
> > > > > Subject: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I have a portable generator (Dewalt 4300, puts
> > > > out 15A at 240V) that I
> > > > > > would like to use as an emergency
> > > > extender/backup for my pickup EV I'm
> > > > > > designing. Ideally, I would just load the
> > > > generator in the bed and plug
> > > > > > in the on-board charger, when needed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Questions: Can a typical EV be charged while it
> > > > is driving? Does this
> > > > > > require a special charger, or any modifications
> > > > to the circuitry?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I realize this will not be a true hybrid, or
> > > > plug-in hybrid, I just want
> > > > > > to be able to extend the range a little when
> > > > necessary.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Jurgen Schmidt
> > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
_
> >________
> > > Finding fabulous fares is fun.
> > > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight
> >and
> >hotel bargains.
> > > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.13/632 - Release Date:
> >1/16/2007
> >4:36 PM
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series. Who will win?
>
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://davevscarl.spaces.live.com/?icid=T001MSN38C07001
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.13/632 - Release Date: 1/16/2007
4:36 PM
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can you put up a link for the video i can't find it.
From: Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR <[email protected]>
Subject: NOISY SLOW Volt Video
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:05:37 -0800
I'll bet ya 10 to 1 it was that this Mock-Up Proto-Type, only has a small
DC motor Chain-Driven perhaps only to one wheel. JUST to get it out and
around on the Pedestal at the Detroit Intl Auto Show, and the next few
shows, round the country. Not really road worthy, or road ready...
Certainly not the 100 hp+ AC system a real production model of this E-Flex
car would have...
As I recall, the EV1 at those speeds was virtually silent !!
Why they would TAPE this and SHOW this, and let us all hear the awful
noises.... is beyond me...
Perhaps it was not really MEANT to get out into general distribution.
Watching her leave the garage, and return and plug in WAS very COOL as
Roderick Wilde already stated a few days ago...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
_________________________________________________________________
Free Alerts : Be smart - let your information find you !
http://alerts.live.com/Alerts/Default.aspx
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I have decided to opt towards the WarP
motor, Zilla controller and T-145 batteries. That's pushed my estimated
cost to $10,250. I think I'll still try talking to Duke energy and maybe
Trojan about funding (got nothing to lose). If they won't provide any
funding, I might look into that raffle/fundraiser idea, if it's legal that
is. Otherwise, I guess I'm looking at a summer job or something. I'll post
news about my conversion on my web page (not the best site in the world, but
it puts my content online without taking bandwidth from my home connection,
plus its quick and easy) It's at http://bmk789.googlepages.com It has
links to my battery comparison chart and hopefully eventually some useful EV
calculators (if i can get some PHP under my belt).
Brandon
On 1/17/07, Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is that legal? Usually these lotteries include a way to enter for free to
stay legal. (like promotions by Coke, McD's monopoly game, etc).
- Tony
Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Sell 200 lottery tickets at $100
each. If conversion costs $10,000
including glider, then you can give away the first conversion with
enough left over for a second, which will probably be better than the
first
Haven't tried this myself. But folks do like to gamble, usually at much
worse odds.
tks
Lock
Toronto
human-electric hybrid.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Kruger"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:18 PM
> Subject: Funding a conversion
>
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm hoping to start my conversion of my Dodge Shadow (
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1033) this summer. I've found all
> the
> > parts
> > I plan to use and totaled the prices. With my DC/PbA conversion,
> my
> > estimated cost is around $9000. Being a student, I do not have any
> way to
> > make this kind of money quickly or easily. So, I have been trying
> to
> > figure
> > out how to raise this money and I came to thinking of sponsorship.
> Would
> > it
> > be a good idea to go to my local power company and ask for them to
> fund
> > this
> > "educational project" of mine? Should I also try contacting
> Trojan,
> > Curtis,
> > ADC, etc.? Any advice for getting my car sponsored/paid for?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brandon
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If they are as good as this release claims. The Altairnano would be the last
battery you ever buy. After 15,000 cycles they still have 85% of their
capacity? If you had a 100 mile pack and it was taken to 85% from day one you
would have 1,275,000 miles.
_http://www.b2i.us/profiles/investor/ResLibraryView.asp?BzID=546&ResLibraryID=
17574&Category=856_
(http://www.b2i.us/profiles/investor/ResLibraryView.asp?BzID=546&ResLibraryID=17574&Category=856)
Seems too good to be true.
Don
In a message dated 1/17/2007 1:26:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Thanks for the information Damon. The issue I have with the NiCd batteries
is that their energy density (Whr/kg), while better than lead-acid, is still
quite a bit lower than Lion. The NiCd also has a lower max discharge rate.
If I'm going to make a significant investment, I want to make sure I've done
my best to explore all the options. I know getting my hands on the
Altairnano battery is a likely a long shot, but I want to know if anyone
knows otherwise if a person was willing to make a significant $$ purchase.
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Altairnano battery - group buy?
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:00:40 +0000
I wouldn't spend $20K on Saft BB600s either, they are usually picked up
surpluss for much, much less. It is the SAFT STM modules that cost multiple
thousands of dollars, but from what I have heard they are worth the
investment. There is a certain manufacturing period that seemed
questionable, but if you go directly to SAFT and buy them brand new like
some others on the list have they are one of the best options. Bill Dube is
quite pleased with his, and I believe he spent less than $20K.
damon
>From: "Stuart Friedrich and Wendy Lyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Altairnano battery - group buy?
>Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:54:53 -0500
>
>Since Altairnano appears to be equipped to manufacture their batteries in
>sufficient quantities to supply Phoenix, what is the chance they would
>consider a purchase from the public? If enough interested group members
>were to put in a consolidated order of say $100 - 200K, would they be
>interested? I am willing to spend $20K on a battery pack, but am not
>willing to spend this on Saft/BB600 NiCds or Thundersky Lion based on what
>I have read of their issues. Does anyone have any insider information
>about likely availability of the Altairnano batteries?
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Share your opinion and enter to win! Please complete this survey to enter
>into a draw for a grand prize of $500 or one of twenty $50 cash prizes.
>http://www.youthographyinsiders.com/R.aspx?a=116
>
_________________________________________________________________
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Buy, Load, Play. The new Sympatico / MSN Music Store works seamlessly with
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah we have made these kinds of batterys in chem class. Bolth electrodes
are just carbon electrodes and the solutions which are the substances that
react are stored in seperate beakers. But a non precipitating salt bridge is
also needed between the cells to allow ion flow.
From: Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Battery technology
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:11:42 -0500
The following was original posted on the MIT piclist (discussion of
everything computerized/electronics/etc) by Russell McMahon. Seems
relevant.
-----------------------
James wants to know about these.
Ken too.
VERY high capacity batteries.
___________
The interview at the end is worth looking at for it's "this is how
science/engineering happens" lessons.
In this case the battery very nearly didn't.
________________________
Flow batteries are electrically like conventional batteries but store
energy in liquid "plates" which is able to be pumped out into storage when
charged. Very large batteries in the 100's of kW and several MWh range are
being built.
Flow batteries are not new BUT the Vanadium Redox battery uses identical
fluids in both halves and uses the multiple oxidation levels of vanadium to
form both negative and positive "plates". Leakage between halves is
equivalent to self discharge rather than contamination as in other flow
cells.
Invented / patented by Sydney university in 1980s. A large trial unit is
being used with a windpower system on King island in bass Strait.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery
Sumitomo
http://electricitystorage.org/pubs/2001/IEEE_PES_Summer2001/Miyake.pdf
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3589/vanadium.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/vanadium-redox-battery
http://www.vfuel.com.au/company.htm
http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Vanadium_redox_batteries
http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/01/vandium_reflux_.html
Vanadium Bromide cell - next generation - lower volumes etc
Prof Skyllas-Kazacos (again/still)(she has been the main developer)
http://www.actapress.com/PaperInfo.aspx?PaperID=17953
Interview with Prof Skyllas-Kazacos
http://www.science.org.au/scientists/notesmsk.htm
Wider ranging interview which the above is taken from
http://www.science.org.au/scientists/msk.htm
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With a string of ultracaps, my EV could have one of these:
http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2007/012007/01172007/251373
If we all had these, the ICE's would be more polite on the road!
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I need a motor support for an older Prestolite MTC-4001 motor. This would
be to support the end of the motor furthest from the adapter plate and also
to torque restrain the motor.
I assume it would consist of two parts. The base would be flat on the
bottom and have a concave cylindrical surface the shape of the motor on top.
The second part would be a band clamp that went around the motor and could
be tightened very snugly to the base to secure the motor from rotating.
Both parts would need to fit the Prestolite's 7.2" outside diameter. I have
found clamps for 6.7 inch and 8 inch motors, but not 7.2 inch.
So, can I buy something like this? Or will I have to fabricate it? Are
there ready made band clamps and bases that were made for other things 7.2"
in diameter, that I might be able to adapt?
Thanks!
Bruce
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually calendar life is often more important than the charge cycle
life for li-ion.
They do mention a 40 yr theoretical but suggest a 20 yr practical life.
If it can last that long while holding a full charge, that would indeed
be great.
Danny
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If they are as good as this release claims. The Altairnano would be the last
battery you ever buy. After 15,000 cycles they still have 85% of their
capacity? If you had a 100 mile pack and it was taken to 85% from day one you
would have 1,275,000 miles.
_http://www.b2i.us/profiles/investor/ResLibraryView.asp?BzID=546&ResLibraryID=
17574&Category=856_
(http://www.b2i.us/profiles/investor/ResLibraryView.asp?BzID=546&ResLibraryID=17574&Category=856)
Seems too good to be true.
Don
In a message dated 1/17/2007 1:26:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Thanks for the information Damon. The issue I have with the NiCd batteries
is that their energy density (Whr/kg), while better than lead-acid, is still
quite a bit lower than Lion. The NiCd also has a lower max discharge rate.
If I'm going to make a significant investment, I want to make sure I've done
my best to explore all the options. I know getting my hands on the
Altairnano battery is a likely a long shot, but I want to know if anyone
knows otherwise if a person was willing to make a significant $$ purchase.
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Altairnano battery - group buy?
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:00:40 +0000
I wouldn't spend $20K on Saft BB600s either, they are usually picked up
surpluss for much, much less. It is the SAFT STM modules that cost multiple
thousands of dollars, but from what I have heard they are worth the
investment. There is a certain manufacturing period that seemed
questionable, but if you go directly to SAFT and buy them brand new like
some others on the list have they are one of the best options. Bill Dube is
quite pleased with his, and I believe he spent less than $20K.
damon
From: "Stuart Friedrich and Wendy Lyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Altairnano battery - group buy?
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:54:53 -0500
Since Altairnano appears to be equipped to manufacture their batteries in
sufficient quantities to supply Phoenix, what is the chance they would
consider a purchase from the public? If enough interested group members
were to put in a consolidated order of say $100 - 200K, would they be
interested? I am willing to spend $20K on a battery pack, but am not
willing to spend this on Saft/BB600 NiCds or Thundersky Lion based on what
I have read of their issues. Does anyone have any insider information
about likely availability of the Altairnano batteries?
_________________________________________________________________
Share your opinion and enter to win! Please complete this survey to enter
into a draw for a grand prize of $500 or one of twenty $50 cash prizes.
http://www.youthographyinsiders.com/R.aspx?a=116
_________________________________________________________________
Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping
Sales & Deals
http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200639
_________________________________________________________________
Buy, Load, Play. The new Sympatico / MSN Music Store works seamlessly with
Windows Media Player. Just Click PLAY.
http://musicstore.sympatico.msn.ca/content/viewer.aspx?cid=SMS_Sept192006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim wrote:
Can you put up a link for the video i can't find it.
Try one or both of these:
http://www.autospies.com/news/DETROIT-AUTO-SHOW-GM-Volt-Concept-in-Action-11478/
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1791839763235205955
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone!
Well, the race and conference planning is fast under way and coming together
great. So far we have people from the US, Canada and Mexico all planning on
attending. We have several media crews planning on being to film the events,
race teams and EV'ers from all over the US and the registrations keep
rolling in every day. Based on the number of registered people, calls and
emails, this looks like it could be one of the biggest EV races ever.
Speaking of racing, the FLEAA is honored to be the ones to announce a very
special car that will be racing at the BBB. Thanks to the hard work of Bill
Dube and his sponsor A123, Shawn Lawless will be racing the recently
upgraded Orange Juice Dragster with the A123 battery pack out of KillaCycle
for the weekend! If you are not familiar with Orange Juice in its current
configuration, it is a shorten rail dragster, with 8 Zilla powered LEMCO
motors, now energized by the famous A123 cells from KillaCycle. The whole
dragster with motors, controller and batteries is weighing in less than
1000lbs. Shawn and his team will certainly be putting on a great show! We
can't wait to see what kind of times he can post.thanks to Bill Dube and
A123 for supporting Shawn's Orange Juice.
The rest of the drag strip line is looking very impressive as well. Besides
Orange Juice, Darin Gilbert of Bad Fish Racing, Matt Graham's Joule
Injected, ProEV's Electric Imp, Miramar's Porsche 944, Brian Hall with
Thunderstruck EV and numerous others will all be out there. There is also
local rumor of a new S-10 with a Warp 13 and a Z2K racing! We will have
close to 30 EV's competing in the competitions throughout the weekend. The
road rally is looking great with numerous long range vehicles taking the
line-up. More rumors of a Valence powered car from GA are surfacing as well.
Saturday afternoon will bring us the first ever East Coast Scootercross and
the much anticipated autocross later that day. We will see if ProEV and
their Electric Imp can hold their title from last year. To add to the fun,
we have invited a local road racer to bring his super-charged Acura NSX to
go head-to-head with the EVs.
So after the 2 hard days of racing and action, we will be winding down to a
much deserved award ceremony and award banquet dinner Saturday night. There
will be plenty of time to socialize and relax before the conference on
Sunday. Sunday's conference promises to yield a lot of great information and
discussions.
The FLEAA will be providing a continental style breakfast of bagels,
doughnuts and fruit with coffee Saturday morning at FAU while all the prep
work is under way. There is a group breakfast being planned like were held
at the 5th EVer for Sunday morning.
There is a lot of hard work being put in by numerous people to bring this
all together, but I would like to take a moment and thank our sponsors, who
without we would not be holding such a grand event:
Headlining the event this year is Vectrix, joined by AC Propulsion, Palm
Beach Toyota, Suncoast EV Outfitters (SEVO), Alltrax Controllers, Hawker
AeroBatteries, Coastal Tire and Auto, ThunderStruck Motors, KTA Services,
and Hi-Torque Electric.
We would also like to thank NEDRA for sanctioning the drag race at the
Battery Beach Burnout.
It is going to be a fantastic event and not one to be missed. It's not too
late to plan on being here. Registration for the events and race is free,
however, the FLEAA does ask that if you are going to attend and are planning
on being there to please take a moment to register at the website:
http://floridaeaa.org/modules/liaise/?form_id=6 This will allow us to have
your pit pass (name tag) pre-printed and ready for you when you arrive.
Thanks everyone, we look forward to seeing in a little over a week here is
sunny south Florida!
Shawn M. Waggoner
FLEAA
www.floridaeaa.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Try one or both of these:
>
>
>
http://www.autospies.com/news/DETROIT-AUTO-SHOW-GM-Volt-Concept-in-Action-11478/
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1791839763235205955
>
Did she unplug from a 110V cord? How long does *that* take for a recharge?
I guess GM gave up on inductive paddles...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Hi,
> Just joined the list. I have a Nissan 240 sx that I'd like to
convert to an EV. I'm wondering where does someone start with a
project like this?
> I know this is such a "newbie" question, but any suggestions,
advice, help would be greatly appreciated.
> Rachael
>
Matt Graham can probably give you the most appropriate advice -
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/836 - but you may want to start at
lower performance than Joule Injected!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm surprised you haven't heard of Flexcar, which does exactly what you
describe for an ever-increasing list of cities. They just added
Gainesville, FL.
<http://www.flexcar.com/>
I was a member when it was Portland Car Sharing, and it (plus public
transportation, and a Seattle Sombrero for walking in the Portland
rain) enabled us to easily manage without a car for our last two years
in Portland. Highly recommended.
A few years ago they offered a discount to members with EVs. Couldn't
find a mention of it tonight, but it might be worth an inquiry if you
live in one of their cities and are interested.
On Jan 17, 2007, at 12:28 PM, David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
What we really need is a neighborhood motorpool, a variation on the
Station
Car concept. You'd never have to own a vehicle, just own a share or
pay a
monthly fee. You could drive a small EV for daily commuting. If you
needed
a gasser van for the family vacation or a big diesel pickup to fetch
some
lumber, you'd just call ahead, leave the E-car, and swap for what you
needed
for a couple of days. (There might be a surcharge for doing so to
encourage
people to use the EVs when possible.)
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://www.gdunge.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Brandon,
If you don't have $10k, why not build something you can afford? Besides,
you won't get enough power out of those batteries to bother with a Zilla
controller or any 9" motor, and just where are 24 batteries going to go
in that little thing?!
Cory
Brandon Kruger wrote:
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I have decided to opt towards the WarP
motor, Zilla controller and T-145 batteries. That's pushed my estimated
cost to $10,250. I think I'll still try talking to Duke energy and maybe
Trojan about funding (got nothing to lose). If they won't provide any
funding, I might look into that raffle/fundraiser idea, if it's legal
that
is. Otherwise, I guess I'm looking at a summer job or something.
I'll post
news about my conversion on my web page (not the best site in the
world, but
it puts my content online without taking bandwidth from my home
connection,
plus its quick and easy) It's at http://bmk789.googlepages.com It has
links to my battery comparison chart and hopefully eventually some
useful EV
calculators (if i can get some PHP under my belt).
Brandon
On 1/17/07, Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is that legal? Usually these lotteries include a way to enter for
free to
stay legal. (like promotions by Coke, McD's monopoly game, etc).
- Tony
Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Sell 200 lottery tickets at
$100
each. If conversion costs $10,000
including glider, then you can give away the first conversion with
enough left over for a second, which will probably be better than the
first
Haven't tried this myself. But folks do like to gamble, usually at much
worse odds.
tks
Lock
Toronto
human-electric hybrid.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Kruger"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:18 PM
> Subject: Funding a conversion
>
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm hoping to start my conversion of my Dodge Shadow (
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1033) this summer. I've found all
> the
> > parts
> > I plan to use and totaled the prices. With my DC/PbA conversion,
> my
> > estimated cost is around $9000. Being a student, I do not have any
> way to
> > make this kind of money quickly or easily. So, I have been trying
> to
> > figure
> > out how to raise this money and I came to thinking of sponsorship.
> Would
> > it
> > be a good idea to go to my local power company and ask for them to
> fund
> > this
> > "educational project" of mine? Should I also try contacting
> Trojan,
> > Curtis,
> > ADC, etc.? Any advice for getting my car sponsored/paid for?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brandon
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bruce,
Just go to a steel yard and pick up a short length of 8 inch 10 gage tubing.
This tubing should read 8 inches outside diameter. Leaving about 7.75 inch
inside diameter.
Lets say the pipe section is 4 inches long, than pick up pick up a length of
1-1/4 to 1-1/2 inch by 1/8 flat bar which you need to get four lengths of it
that will be 4 inches long.
Now cut the tubing in half to make two clam shell sections and cut addition
1-1/4 off one section on each end so the diameter of this tubing will be
reduce down to your motor diameter.
When you cut the tubing in half it will spring open a little, so you will
have to bend it back to fit the curve of the motor.
The flat bar will then be welded to the the end of the curved tubing section
at 90 degrees that will have two holes in it for clamping around the the
motor with 3/8 inch by 2 inch bolts.
If you want a flat bottom for it, Then weld on two lengths of angle iron
going the width of the band, with the two legs against the band and the 90
degree corner downward.
Then you weld a 4 inch by 1/4 inch flat bar so the angle iron corners rest
on.
Instead of installing a flat base on my motor mount. I welded on a 3/4 inch
thick by 2.5 inch wide steel flat bar on the bottom clam shell about half
way down from the bolt flange clamp.
Before this bar was welded on, I drill two holes in it and tap it for a 1/2
inch bolt hole which match a engine mount for a engine.
I first bolted this bar to the engine mount and position it on the cross
member where it was bolted on. It may not be exactly in the same spot but
may be back further to the fire wall. I then clamp on the clam shell and
dry fit the motor in position so the clam shell is resting on engine mounts.
I normally did this with the motor attach to the transmission, so the motor
position exactly level in relationship to the pinion U-joint on the
differential.
The transmission output shaft axils and differential axils should be
parallel to each other, but is not inline. There should be at least a 2
degree angle of the drive shaft between the two while the car is on the
ground. While it is jack up it the differential will drop to at least 4
inches in a 6 foot length of drive shaft.
When the differential rises up and down, the drive shaft should be allow to
slid in out of the transmission. So make sure you do not butt the
transmission output shaft against the drive line U-Joint.
If you did not record this amount of slippage while the engine was connected
and the amount of drive line drop, then you should look at a shop manual for
these specs.
Normally if you place the rear transmission mount on the same location, you
should be ok for length.
My GM transmission has about 1 inch space from the U-joint when the car is
down and about 1.5 space when the car is jack up.
This part of the installation is very important other wise the needle
bearings in the U-joint will not rotate if you are directly in line.
After you dry fit the motor and transmission, then you can position your
motor mounts in the correct position for welding on to the bottom clamp
shell. I then tack weld the motor mounts to the clamp shell and then remove
the clam shell for finishing the welding and paint.
In my case, my motor was so far back from the cross member section, it miss
it all together. So I position and tack welded the engine mount on the clam
shell as close to the rear of the cross member. Then bottom of the engine
mounts were hanging in mid air.
This gave me a reference point for welding on a steel extension on the rear
of the cross member. I use a 4 inch by 4 inch by 3/8 inch angle iron that
was also gusset for a platform for the motor mount.
If you use a flat bar platform on the bottom of the clam shell, then you can
use this same method for building a platform of the right height.
If you place you car on jack stands all round, it is best to use a magnetic
base level that has a round dial that has 360 degrees. I use a MD or
Mackianburg-Duncan degree dial I pick up from Home Depot.
Check the level of the differential. Lets say its reads 2 degrees, because
your vehicle may not be exactly level, than make sure your motor is at 2
degrees, so both units are parallel to each other.
After you check the right height of the motor, than you can position your
motor platform in the correct position.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 9:21 PM
Subject: Motor Clamp for Prestolite Motor
> I need a motor support for an older Prestolite MTC-4001 motor. This would
> be to support the end of the motor furthest from the adapter plate and
> also
> to torque restrain the motor.
>
> I assume it would consist of two parts. The base would be flat on the
> bottom and have a concave cylindrical surface the shape of the motor on
> top.
> The second part would be a band clamp that went around the motor and could
> be tightened very snugly to the base to secure the motor from rotating.
> Both parts would need to fit the Prestolite's 7.2" outside diameter. I
> have
> found clamps for 6.7 inch and 8 inch motors, but not 7.2 inch.
>
> So, can I buy something like this? Or will I have to fabricate it? Are
> there ready made band clamps and bases that were made for other things
> 7.2"
> in diameter, that I might be able to adapt?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bruce
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know the Siemens drive systems are much more popular, so if anyone's
interested, I've posted some pictures of a MES DEA drive system I purchased
from metricmind:
http://evconvert.blogspot.com/
Pretty cool huh! :) Can't wait to start tearing up my donor car. Is anyone else
using this drive system, or know of anyone using it in a home conversion
project?
- Tony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just wanted to drop a note to you all expressing my thanks for your advice and
encouragement. After just over 4 months of conversion work, our Cabby EV is
finally roadworthy. Tonight, my Cabby made it's maiden voyage to the grocery
store without incident, and I EV grinned all the way. A few days of shake out
and we'll load her up on the trailer and head down to the BBB!
Thanks again!
Regards, Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't want to say anything, but a poor college student shouldn't be
spending $10,000 on a hobby, particularly if they don't have it. I'd
suggest building some R/C electric cars and go racing, and cut your
costs by $9,500. Actually I'd suggest building an electric motorcycle,
but maybe you live in cold rainy weather, in which case go back to the
first suggestion.
Jack
Cory R. Cross wrote:
Hi Brandon,
If you don't have $10k, why not build something you can afford? Besides,
you won't get enough power out of those batteries to bother with a Zilla
controller or any 9" motor, and just where are 24 batteries going to go
in that little thing?!
Cory
Brandon Kruger wrote:
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I have decided to opt towards the WarP
motor, Zilla controller and T-145 batteries. That's pushed my estimated
cost to $10,250. I think I'll still try talking to Duke energy and maybe
Trojan about funding (got nothing to lose). If they won't provide any
funding, I might look into that raffle/fundraiser idea, if it's legal
that
is. Otherwise, I guess I'm looking at a summer job or something.
I'll post
news about my conversion on my web page (not the best site in the
world, but
it puts my content online without taking bandwidth from my home
connection,
plus its quick and easy) It's at http://bmk789.googlepages.com It has
links to my battery comparison chart and hopefully eventually some
useful EV
calculators (if i can get some PHP under my belt).
Brandon
On 1/17/07, Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is that legal? Usually these lotteries include a way to enter for
free to
stay legal. (like promotions by Coke, McD's monopoly game, etc).
- Tony
Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Sell 200 lottery tickets at
$100
each. If conversion costs $10,000
including glider, then you can give away the first conversion with
enough left over for a second, which will probably be better than the
first
Haven't tried this myself. But folks do like to gamble, usually at much
worse odds.
tks
Lock
Toronto
human-electric hybrid.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Kruger"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:18 PM
> Subject: Funding a conversion
>
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm hoping to start my conversion of my Dodge Shadow (
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1033) this summer. I've found all
> the
> > parts
> > I plan to use and totaled the prices. With my DC/PbA conversion,
> my
> > estimated cost is around $9000. Being a student, I do not have any
> way to
> > make this kind of money quickly or easily. So, I have been trying
> to
> > figure
> > out how to raise this money and I came to thinking of sponsorship.
> Would
> > it
> > be a good idea to go to my local power company and ask for them to
> fund
> > this
> > "educational project" of mine? Should I also try contacting
> Trojan,
> > Curtis,
> > ADC, etc.? Any advice for getting my car sponsored/paid for?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brandon
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brandon, you did a great job on your battery chart on your site but you are
missing a very important spec on the batteries. You have their energy
density but not their power density. This relates to their internal
resistance and how quickly you can draw that stored energy from the
batteries. The reason people are saying that the Zilla is not a good match
with the Trojan T-145 is because this battery has a low power density and if
you draw more than 600 amps from them you will destroy them. That is why all
the racers who use Zillas also use batteries with a very low internal
resistance such as Optima's, Hawkers, and Exide Orbitals to name a few. You
should get a tape measure and see if 24 batteries will fit in your vehicle.
Also there have only been a few conversions done with 1700 pound packs and
they were pick ups or other vehicles with heavy duty suspensions. I once did
a Jeep Cherokee with 24 T-145s. I had to cut into the grill area and redo
the hood latch and move it forward. I had a string in behind the back seat
in a sealed box vented to the outside with fan circulation and one box below
and behind the rear axle. It was a real job shoe horning these batteries in
a vehicle as large as a Cherokee let alone a compact car. I must admit that
I did get 2000 pounds of batteries in a Ford Taurus race car once. You may
want to reconsider your range requirements or your choice of vehicle.
Roderick
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: Funding a conversion
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I have decided to opt towards the WarP
motor, Zilla controller and T-145 batteries. That's pushed my estimated
cost to $10,250. I think I'll still try talking to Duke energy and maybe
Trojan about funding (got nothing to lose). If they won't provide any
funding, I might look into that raffle/fundraiser idea, if it's legal that
is. Otherwise, I guess I'm looking at a summer job or something. I'll
post
news about my conversion on my web page (not the best site in the world,
but
it puts my content online without taking bandwidth from my home
connection,
plus its quick and easy) It's at http://bmk789.googlepages.com It has
links to my battery comparison chart and hopefully eventually some useful
EV
calculators (if i can get some PHP under my belt).
Brandon
On 1/17/07, Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is that legal? Usually these lotteries include a way to enter for free to
stay legal. (like promotions by Coke, McD's monopoly game, etc).
- Tony
Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Sell 200 lottery tickets at
$100
each. If conversion costs $10,000
including glider, then you can give away the first conversion with
enough left over for a second, which will probably be better than the
first
Haven't tried this myself. But folks do like to gamble, usually at much
worse odds.
tks
Lock
Toronto
human-electric hybrid.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Kruger"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:18 PM
> Subject: Funding a conversion
>
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm hoping to start my conversion of my Dodge Shadow (
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1033) this summer. I've found all
> the
> > parts
> > I plan to use and totaled the prices. With my DC/PbA conversion,
> my
> > estimated cost is around $9000. Being a student, I do not have any
> way to
> > make this kind of money quickly or easily. So, I have been trying
> to
> > figure
> > out how to raise this money and I came to thinking of sponsorship.
> Would
> > it
> > be a good idea to go to my local power company and ask for them to
> fund
> > this
> > "educational project" of mine? Should I also try contacting
> Trojan,
> > Curtis,
> > ADC, etc.? Any advice for getting my car sponsored/paid for?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brandon
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- End Message ---
