EV Digest 6344
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: repair of controller, Re: Curtis 1221R regen controller wiring
diagram
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: LED, HID, and other conservative lights? (efficient heating)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Water cooled AC Motor question...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: EVs in Edmonton
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Battery Monitor Design
by =?UTF-8?B?SnVra2EgSsOkcnZpbmVu?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: FW: Three-wheeling in California
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: FW: Three-wheeling in California
by Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Strange EVDL goings-on
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: New EVer, New EV
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Fwd: hi from india
by "sushrut patgaonkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Strange EVDL goings-on
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EVs in Edmonton
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Toyota vs GM
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Battery Monitor Design
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: FW: Three-wheeling in California
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: KTA Services no longer sells to hobbyists
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Electric "Jeep", Is this project feasable?
by xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: LED, HID, and other conservative lights?
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Jeeps, Trucks & cars
by xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get? Not
very, it shouldn't!)
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Strange EVDL goings-on
by xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Battery Monitor Design
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: New EVer, New EV
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Electric "Jeep", Is this project feasable?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Strange EVDL goings-on
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Hartley wrote:
Hi Lee,
Thanks for your kind offer, I would like to take you up on it.
Only the 120V controller is not working well due to about half the
MOSFETs and diodes being blown... The fact that the controller is
still "working" suggests to me that there hopefully is not a lot,
or anything else, wrong...
Sounds like you were lucky. Most of the time at least some of the
MOSFETS and/or diodes short, and draw so much fault current that it
burns up traces on the board and otherwise renders it unfixable.
I have the MUR2020RG diodes and some better MOSFETS - NTP30N20G 30A
200V - that I obtained for the repair, and could supply 25 diodes
and 20 MOSFETs. What I am lacking is the time and experience, and
consequently, somewhat lacking the courage to plunge in and tackle
this work I didn't do before, particularly considering the potting
around the 10-pin connector, and the way the boards are tied together.
I've done it before. It's a little tedious, but straightforward.
On the potting compound, I find it better to break it all away, cut a
piece of PC board material to replace it, and then seal it in place with
silicone rubber. This forms a truly waterproof seal, and yet is easily
removed if it needs to be opened up again.
This was a rebuilt 1221R that Gorilla vehicles had sold me. What I
don't understand is why it failed...
Any signs of water inside (rusty screws, etc.)? How old is it? If used,
what happened to it in its previous life? "Failure" usually occurs when
enough abuse and damage has accumulated over its life so far.
I'll check the capacitors. Electrolytics gradually go bad from age and
heat. If they fail, you get excessive voltage spikes, which then kill
the MOSFETs or diodes.
I saw that the special European 200A fuse was blown.
Some of the MOSFETs must have shorted, which blew the fuse. It probably
stopped the fireworks before the controller was completely destroyed.
Please email me for the arrangements. While I have some loss of
confidence in it after this kind of failure, I have nothing else that
could work to give regen and operate at the higher voltage pushed up by
28 cells of TS lithium ion 100 A-hr (November 2004 good ones) helping
the 8 DCS-75 AGMs. So I would be very glad to have it working again.
Thanks for your offer of help with this.
My mailing address is at the bottom of all my posts; just send it there.
I have a few high priority things ahead of it, so is is OK if you're not
in a hurry? If it's here I can work on it as I get time between other
projects. Probably will take a month or two max. If you include the
parts, the only charge will be labor (probably $100-$150; depends on the
actual time it takes).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dmitri wrote:
Hmm, a Peltier heater maybe?
What about using an AC in reverse? Would that work? Why doesn't anybody
use that, since they are more efficient than Peltiers, and provide
cooling as well.
How much more efficient would that be, compared to just resistive
heating? Anybody know?
Running an air conditioner in reverse is called a "heat pump". Yes, they
are more efficient than simple resistive heating. Just how efficient
depends on the temperature difference between inside and outside.
Suppose it is 100 deg.F outside and you want it 70 deg.F inside. A good
air conditioner can efficiently produce large volumes of air with that
30 deg.F temperature difference.
If run as a heat pump, it can just as efficiently heat the air by 30
deg.F; for instance heat 40 deg.F outside air to 70 deg.F.
The problem is that efficiency gets worse as the inside-outside
temperature difference gets larger. Heat pumps start having problems
when it's below freezing outside, and are useless at 0 deg.F. So heat
pumps also have resistive heaters to deal with very cold temperatures.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe Plumer wrote:
For those of you who are running water cooled AC Motors, does the
water circulating through the motor get hot enough to be used for
heating the vehicle?
Not really. Electric motors (AC or DC) are 80% or more efficient. If it
takes 10 hp (=10kw) to push you down the road, you've only got perhaps 2
kw of waste heat -- about the same as one of those little 120vac
portable heaters.
The motor controller is even more efficient, so there's even less heat
available from it.
Since motors and electronics last longer the cooler they get, they are
generally overcooled. This means what heat they do provide is at quite a
low temperature; not what you'd consider "warm".
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm mostly interested in EV events in Edmonton, or things going on
nearby during the summer break.
Given that Alberta is oil country, and there seem to be a lack of EV's in
this part of the world, it might be tough.
There are a few EV's up here, and a bunch in process, but I don't know about
an 'event'. A few years back, the U of A hybrid electric (running as an EV
most of the time - it had an EV range of 60-80 km with NiCd batteries, it
ran very well, using UQM BLDC motors and Saft NiCd's) did make a bunch of
appearances at environmental events, though.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Amen.
-Jukka
Victor Tikhonov kirjoitti:
Lee Hart wrote:
...
Most propulsion packs are not ground referenced (i.e. not grounded;
floating). This means a voltmeter connected between ground and any
propulsion battery shows essentially no voltage, because there is no
path for current to flow between them.
In OEM designs propulsion pack circuitry is isolated from the logic
portion but is connected to the common via 500k-2M resistor (about 2W
power) at one point. This effectively preserves isolation but does not
allow propulsion pack potential to "float away" from the rest of the
circuit. It is not terribly good reference connection for the voltage
measurements, especially if cheap (low input impedance) voltmeters
are used to check what is the voltage between either end (or anywhere
in the middle) of the pack and the vehicle ground, but it's not the
purpose of such connection.
...
I don't understand the reason for using 1-10 Mbit networking for a
system that measures battery voltages every half second or so. It
seems like a fast network just makes it more expensive and susceptible
to noise.
If you measure battery voltage once every half second - indeed
no reason. In fact there is no reason to use CAN networks just for this.
But if you measure for instance voltages and temperatures for each of
124 LiP cells the pack consists of, have to transfer all that data
every half second for processing and also have to send data back to the
cell modules to balance them, it is different matter.
In modern cars it is rare to have dedicated CAN bus for just one
purpose. Because of broadcast nature of CAN usually common bus gets
loaded with independent subsystems, so the CAN traffic may require
high bandwidth. With very slow bus electrical noise immunity is lower
because more aggressive filtering is allowed, however bus load increases
leading to too many retransmissions of lower priority frames.
More than 30% is considered quite loaded CAN bus. If you analyze
can traffic you will see that you have less delays if you have
high speed bus and allow quick retransmitting corrupted (due to the
noise) messages than if you have slow and relatively error free bus.
Finally, I wanted to mention - typically today you'd have about 30 kbps
CAN/LIN bus for HMI interfaces (locks, dome lights, seats, climate,
mirrors, radio, etc), 125 to 500 kbps for the bulk of engine/body
controls and 25Mbps
for airbags / suspension dynamics sensors. If those cars would be
in EV form, they would not slow down buses for such subsystems.
Noise errors are successfully dealt with on the system level by
redundancy and other error correction means (in addition to
shielding, filtering, noise canceling techniques etc. on the hardware
level).
These systems are sure complex, but it is not designed to be
complex. Engineers try to make it simpler and outcome is usually
as simple as possible given *very* demanding requirements to be
satisfied demanded by safety agencies, insurance companies, customers
etc. Far more complex topic than just engineering decision to pick
10Mbps CAN transceiver vs. 20Mbps one.
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
--
Jukka Järvinen
R&D Director
Oy Finnish Electric Vehicle Technologies Ltd
Teollisuuskatu 24 A3
11100 RIIHIMÄKI
jukka.jarvinen(at)fevt.com
cell phone +358-440-735705
wired phone +358-19-735705
fax +358-19-735785
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You might want to check with at least a couple DMV offices to see if it
can be registered when you are finished... and make sure each agree that
it *can* be registered. I never heard back from the dude who completed his
rig then could not drive it.
BTW, MC insurance is usually less expensive, as you say, but that's
because it doesn't cover but a fraction of what auto insurance covers.
Getting insurance seems to be more a factor in having a friendly insurance
agent, than in locating a particular company.
> My research indicates that 3-wheelers in California are
> regulated as motorcycles... which looks to be one of the last few
> less-regulated niches available for highway-capable vehicles. I'm likely
> to work from a front-wheel drive auto glider, such as a Geo Metro, for
> ease of initial implementation and light weight, with a custom chassis
> after proof of concept. I'm aware that this will weigh more than a
> purpose-built glider.
>
> I'm considering constructing a 3-wheel commuter hybrid, and
> would like to discuss licensure and insurance with anyone who's been
> down this road before.
>
> Source of power has clear benefits, as does efficiency, and my
> past motorcycle insurance policies have been substantially cheaper than
> 4-wheeled modes of transit... are there hidden costs that I'm missing?
>
> Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm hoping other California 3 wheelers jump in to help us both out. When I
bought my Cushman I spent 2 days calling insurance companies here in
California. With the combo of my cushman not starting life as an electric and
being a 3 wheeler I could not find anyone to insure. Since less than 10% of my
driving is on public roads I just gave up and did not insure or registar it.
Bob
Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
3 wheelers are an excellent idea, for most states (some apparently dont
allow them)
One thing though, as I recall California has a weight limit on three
wheeled motor cycles. Can't remember what it is, but I think it's under
2,000 lbs.
> My research indicates that 3-wheelers in California are
> regulated as motorcycles... which looks to be one of the last few
> less-regulated niches available for highway-capable vehicles. I'm likely
> to work from a front-wheel drive auto glider, such as a Geo Metro, for
> ease of initial implementation and light weight, with a custom chassis
> after proof of concept. I'm aware that this will weigh more than a
> purpose-built glider.
>
> I'm considering constructing a 3-wheel commuter hybrid, and
> would like to discuss licensure and insurance with anyone who's been
> down this road before.
>
> Source of power has clear benefits, as does efficiency, and my
> past motorcycle insurance policies have been substantially cheaper than
> 4-wheeled modes of transit... are there hidden costs that I'm missing?
>
> Randii
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stranage... EV Digest # 6342 headers says there are 25 messages..
Yet I gets the first one ( from Charles Wahlen )
and part of the Second one ( from a Randy Burleson
but then THIS and no more...............
------_=_NextPart_001_01C74082.644CE0B0"
Subject: Three-wheeling in California
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 05:11:54 -0800
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: Three-wheeling in California
Thread-Index: AcdAgmKqFbCbYJwSQJmzu5gnLJmEFQ==
From: "Randy Burleson--
----------------------------------------------
What happened ??
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aside from the poor fuel economy and excessive pollution from this idea,
the main problems I see are insufficient power from the generator (after
you solve the problem of excessive voltage) and over heating of the
controller and motor.
Neither are designed for continuous use at these power levels for more
than /maybe/ an hour.
Have you considered a pusher trailer idea? Maybe using a motorcycle as
the pusher.
It would produce less polution, be more efficient, and you won't run into
the problems with frying your motor/controller.
> The purpose of the project (and yes, I know a few of you are going to
> have a serious problem with this, but it is what it is) is to build an
> optional generator trailer for the vehicle. I plan on driving the
> vehicle around the country this coming summer hiking, camping, etc
> before I get stuck in a lab for the next five years in grad school (at
> which point I'll put the trailer away and go back to pure EV). I have
> an old concrete mixer trailer that we've rehabilitated and are modifying
> for the project and we're currently working on the CAD models to do
> aerodynamic testing of the vehicle/trailer combinations to decide on the
> proper composite fairings. That's the easy part for me though.
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: sushrut patgaonkar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Jan 26, 2007 3:28 AM
Subject: hi from india
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
hello everyone
i am sushrut patgaonkar .
i am a product design student from india
i am exploring electric vehickles , india has a currently two electric
vehicles
one is a yo scooter and the reva electric
where can i source plans for building an ev from scratch
another question
in an ev can a motor be directly connected to a generator with 2 battery
packs ,one runs the motor the other charges the second battery pack, after
the motor finishes the first pack it can switch to the second pack while the
generator charges the first pack so on so forth till both the pack come to
zero ,,, it can increase the range multi fold
one obvious issue is the weight of carrying cpacity or the weight of the
second battery pack
any suggestions or feedback is most valued
thank you all
sushrut
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 25 Jan 2007 at 13:53, Steven Lough wrote:
> What happened ??
Hmm, I thought SJSU had that fixed a couple of years ago. Maybe fixing
something else re-broke this.
It's a listserver bug triggered by Randy Burleson's sending an attachment to
the list. The filter clips the attachment, which it should do, but it also
knocks
off all the messages after that from the digest. As I said I thought this was
fixed some time ago but it seems to be broken again.
SJSU is probably going to switch us over to Mailman soon, so these bugs in
the listserver should all go away and be replaced by different bugs. ;-)
David Roden
EV List Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark
Welcome to Edmonton. Edmonton is not exactly a "hotbed" for EVs but there
are a few of us.
I have two completed EV's on the list
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/716
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/737
I have two other EVs under construction, hopefully on the road this summer.
I have most of my components including donor cars, motors, batteries,etc.
EZEsport Zoom is a 1988 RX7 Turbo that will have dual adc 8", zilla 2k,
parallel/series and AGM. It should be a higher performance vehicle. Otmar
says my long awaited Z2k is now ready to ship.
EZEsport Cruise is a 1987 RX7 that will be built for extended range hopefully
up to 100 miles. I have a set of M95 nimh batteries from a Ranger EV. I want
to get regen on this vehicle. The motor choice is still up in the air. I have
a 70kw BLDC I would like to use but a suitable controller is not available.
Might try build one if I had the time. I also have a set of Prestolite sepex
motors with a Curtis 1244 Sepex with regen but voltages are low and the
performance may not be adequate. AC would be nice but they lack of ability to
customize and cost a lot.
So far, I have been collecting and testing parts for the two cars. The
garage/workshop should warm up soon and hopefully the conversions will go
smoothly.
Maybe we can go for a coffee.
Ray
Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi all,
Well the Fowler family has relocated from Sydney, Austrlia to Edmonton,
Canada for the year of 2007.
(We had to leave the EV behind, but it's in good hands. I hope :-)
What sort of EV action is there in Edmonton?
(Not an awful lot mentioned in the archives.)
What about other nearby places? (Yes, I know, nearby is a relative
term.)
We'll be doing a bit of travelling during the school breaks.
Mark
---------------------------------
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nope,
The son gets the yet to be purchased and perhaps converted used small truck,
or his moms 1999 Taurus, if she gets a new Prius.
My older sister wrecked two of our cars when we were teens, one on the day I
was supposed to take it to prom, and I vividly remember my arch nemesis in
High School wrecking his brand new Trans Am his daddy bought him the day he
got his drivers license. I also remember the girl that was riding with him
walking around with screws in her head to secure the neck brace she had to
wear, and no I wasn't the one responsible for the poster hanging on the
school wall featuring pictures of his wrecked car sitting in the tow
companies lot, that was my best friend Todd. I am very aware of the dangers
teenage drivers pose to themselves, the people around them, and the vehicles
they drive.
Some of the selling factors on doing the conversion include the time we
could spend together doing the work, the fact that anything you work for has
a lot more value and he would be doing a lot of the work, and that he thinks
it would be cool as heck to drive an EV to school.
I've struggled as a parent with the idea of having my High School age kids
work while they are in school, as I prefer to have them concentrate on their
school work as well as all the things that they can only enjoy during that
time in their life. They will have the rest of their life to work. I do
want them to have a good work ethic so having him build a vehicle, even if I
am paying for alll the pieces, sounds like the best of both worlds.
Of course if we build something with enough range and power, he may find
that he is driving the Insight while I take the EV to work. My commute of
26 miles one way over freeways and hills is tough to build for on a
reasonable budget.
damon
From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Toyota vs GM
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:42:56 -0700
Damon and All,
E-gads, you're going to let a kid drive a new car? Statistically, kids WILL
crash a car before they turn 18. Which reminds me, five years ago I was
giving my son's friend the "be careful" talk a couple of days after he got
his driver's license, and later that day he was upside down in his car! My
son was in the minority and didn't wreck until he was over the age of 18,
but before my daughter turned 18 (earlier this month, amen), she had two
accidents. She had rear-ended someone when she first got her license, and
last year she spun out in the RX-7 EV and smacked a curb, so I had to
replace a wheel and axle...
Suck Amps,
BB
>From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:07:24 +0000
>
>>If it does, I don't know about you, but I'll be celebrating. I'm not
too
>>concerned with whether it's Toyota, GM, Nissan, Ford, or for that matter
>>General Electric or Zenn or Phoenix which makes it happen, just as long
as
>> >someone< does.
>
>I'm with you on this. One of the reasons I drive a Honda Insight instead
of
>an EV is because I could walk into a dealership, pick out my color and
drive
>away with it.
>
>Even now with my oldest son coming up on 16 I'm torn between putting in
the
>tremendous time and resources it takes to convert a small truck to an EV
or
>going out and buying my wife that new Prius we've been wanting to get
>forever, and letting him drive her car...
<snip>
_________________________________________________________________
Valentines Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping
http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode=wlmtagline
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 24, 2007, at 2:50 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
Rich Rudman wrote:
Keep in mind that NO protection of any kind will last for years.
Only if you are lucky, and never get "hit". Driving around with no
seat belts will work for years, too -- until you get hit.
I think that what Rich means here is "There is no such thing as a
protection system that will last for years."
Not "If you have no protection then your equipment will last for
years", which appears to be what you were assuming he said.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Federal weight number for a 3 wheel motorcycle to get DOT certified is
1,500lbs. curb weight (unloaded). There is also a width and length limit
that I don't remember. I know the pizzabutt Sparrows were coming close to
size limits. I think Zap Xebras actually exceed the weight limit by a couple
of pounds, but have managed to squeak through.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter VanDerWal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 11:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: FW: Three-wheeling in California
3 wheelers are an excellent idea, for most states (some apparently dont
allow them)
One thing though, as I recall California has a weight limit on three
wheeled motor cycles. Can't remember what it is, but I think it's under
2,000 lbs.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What I will miss most is the tons of kits of specialized little stuff that Ken
makes available, like the heater relay package with all the snubber components,
and the wiring diagrams that come with his stuff. And I'm not aware of anyone
with as many kits available, or as much motor data, or battery heater pads. He
was always willing to discuss your options with you at length, too.
I seriously considered buying KTA when it was up for sale. Of course not
actually having anywhere near that much money kind of made the decision for me,
plus the fact my wife would never move to California.
That said, I completely understand his wanting to actually retire. I hope we
hear more of him in the future.
David Brandt
____________________________________________________________________________________
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I actually think that has to be a typo. Later in the
same message he says:
> That would slow down this two
> ton
> plus beast when going down a 6 to 10 percent grade >
> from up on the
> mountain
> in Jerome, Arizona, the birthplace of NEDRA.
Two ton equal 4000lbs. Even with an aluminum body it
has to be more than 2,000lbs, the battery pack alone
is probably close to 1,000 I'd think.
John
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> John (xx xx) wrote:
>
> > I've seen others say a 9" didn't give them enough
> > torque for a heavy vehicle.
>
> Rod's Land Rover isn't what EVers consider a heavy
> vehicle. I don't
> know about the newer Land Rover models, but the
> older ones, such as
> Rod's, are aluminum bodied, and Rod described his as
> "two thousand plus"
> (lbs); this is in the same ballpark as the *lighter*
> car conversions.
>
> It isn't unusual for a car conversion using flooded
> batteries to be over
> 3000lbs and a small truck to be 4000+.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Properly done, LED lights are great for backup lights, turn signals (you can
buy plug-in replacements for the factory bulbs), and interior lights. You need
a lot more for the same light in the interior, so a custom install is in order
for there, but it makes it look snazzy.
I used the drop-in replacements for the rear lights in the fiero, and replaced
the stupid, half burned out, half melted logo lighting with "streetglow
hotwierz' neon tube for a nifty look.
I wouldn't mess with headlights, though the higher efficiency bulbs that are
available would help get more light for less power.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Randy Burleson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 3:55:44 AM
Subject: LED, HID, and other conservative lights?
Are most of you using LED lights to minimize electrical draw, or just
working with whatever came in your glider? Retro-reflective tape only
goes so far -- we all need turn signals and such?
As I nursed my charge-handicapped daily driver home in the dark, with
first dim white, then dim yellow, I was thinking about my eventual
electric or hybrid, and wondering how significant headlight drains are
to overall range... and whether the snazzy new HID lamps are more
conservative in electrical usage, after the ballast fires.
Randii (driving by Braille)
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, that's good information. What kind of range
were you getting with the Tracker? How much of the
4200lbs was batteries?
John
--- "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Folk's
>
> I used a 9" in my 4200lb Geo Tracker with 20 6V
> floodeds and performance was fine, about 65mph
> highway speed. 9" are usually used in trucks/jeeps
> and 8" in cars like my 2400lb Electro-Metro with 14
> batteries, 1st 6V then 8V. This should be
> intuitively obvious but it takes about half the HP,
> batteries, controller = cost at 2k lbs than it does
> to shove a 4k lb vehicle down the road. I'm now
> going full circle back to a lightweight vehicle, a
> 914 Porsche 2100lbs start weight (but not as light
> as my earlier 1700lb cheese wedge or 1200lb
> Bombardier. I got 30 mile range with 12ea 8V
> batteries in the Bombardier and it took 20 batteries
> in the jeep to do the same plus I got tired of
> watering all those batteries while driving 300 miles
> a week. Battery changing time every 10k miles was a
> PITA. Less batteries (lighter weight vehicle) makes
> a better more cost effective EV.
>
> Have a renewable energy day,
> Mark
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Cor,
The more I started thinking about it, yep, the more it seemed a
shame to throw it out, since copper and other natural resources
are coming more and more into demand, to the point of people
stealing copper wiring (I think one or two of the EV chargers out
there may have met their demise this way, according to what I
remember reading on the evchargernews.com postings). Heck, maybe
I had better be worried about my EV for a different reason, and
that is those two long 2/0 copper cables between the front and
rear packs - that is a substantial amount of copper to steal.
(Just kidding...) Fortunately, those long guys are from the
original VoltsRabbit kit, and they seem just fine.
Anyways, Cor, you go to any of the EAA meetings on the Peninsula,
or even in San Jose? I get down there once in awhile, so I could
bring the cabling with me. I'll weigh it with the insulation on
once I'm done recabling the battery interconnects, and see just
what I have with a rough subtraction for the insulation. What
would you do with the copper to salvage it? These are like 7" to
10" pieces with the lugs cut off. Crimping down on oxidized
strands don't work, so you'll have to copper creme them or
something, frizzing out all the strands.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:10 PM
Subject: RE: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a
Terminal Get? Not very, it shouldn't!)
> Chuck,
>
> Many EV'ers around here (I am in Santa Clara county, south
> of SF Bay) and I think that you cable is salvageable with
> some manual rework, so don't thrash it just yet.
> If you find no better offers, then I will be happy to give
> you double what you already were offered and pay for shipping
> if I don't travel up north soon, I also have a colleage in
> Petaluma, so he may be able to pick those cables up.
>
> Others in SF may have interest in the cables as well.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private:
http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life:
www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Chuck Hursch
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:23 PM
> To: EVDL post
> Subject: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a
Terminal
> Get? Not very, it shouldn't!)
>
>
> I am generating some used cable as I am going through my pack,
> putting new cables in to replace the old ones that were getting
> hot (which were most all of the cables made at the installation
> of the second pack in my car some five years ago - apparently
> defective cable that had some oxidation on the strands - I'll
try
> to post about that some other time). The point of this post is
> that a fellow EV'er (and I believe he is on the EVDL also)
> prompted me to think about recycling that cable, when I
mentioned
> I was going to throw the old stuff out. Well, I called my
local
> recycler, Marin Recycling (Marin is the county where I live),
and
> they gave me a price of 58 cents/pound, with the insulation
> removed from the cable. I doubt it's going to be more than a
> couple of pounds with the insulation off. Even if it was ten
> pounds, it would barely be worth my time to slice the
insulation
> off the copper and drive it to the recycling place. There's
just
> not that much of it. Anybody have different numbers/pound?
>
> Thanks,
> Chuck
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure would be nice if we had a web based BBS and could
avoid problems like this.
;^) Yes, though I'm new here, I am aware of the
ongoing debate over this issue. I'll throw my vote in
as a yes on a BBS if anyone is counting. Seems like
there should be a way to do both somehow, but I don't
really know.
--- "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On 25 Jan 2007 at 13:53, Steven Lough wrote:
>
> > What happened ??
>
> Hmm, I thought SJSU had that fixed a couple of years
> ago. Maybe fixing
> something else re-broke this.
>
> It's a listserver bug triggered by Randy Burleson's
> sending an attachment to
> the list. The filter clips the attachment, which it
> should do, but it also knocks
> off all the messages after that from the digest. As
> I said I thought this was
> fixed some time ago but it seems to be broken again.
>
> SJSU is probably going to switch us over to Mailman
> soon, so these bugs in
> the listserver should all go away and be replaced by
> different bugs. ;-)
>
> David Roden
> EV List Administrator
> http://www.evdl.org/
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Weathers wrote:
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> >> Keep in mind that NO protection of any kind will last for years.
>
> I think that what Rich means here is "There is no such thing as a
> protection system that will last for years."
>
> Not "If you have no protection then your equipment will last for
> years", which appears to be what you were assuming he said.
Interesting suggestion.
My interpretation was certainly the same as Lee's; it seemed clear at
the time that Rich was defending the absence of any protection from his
system. I think Rich's subsequent comment that a system with protection
would/could last for decades (vs a system without lasting for "years",
as the quoted statement suggests) backs up the interpretation Lee and I
both seem to have taken.
Of course, Rich's unique writing style makes it difficult to be sure...
;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day Bryan, and All
At 07:45 AM 25/01/07 -0800, Bryan Taylor wrote:
<snip>The trailer will have a traditional gas generator on it that
provides 8kw continuous. For those of you that speak of tuning the engines
for the most efficient (or minimal toxicity), I would love to know how
someone might go about doing that. Otherwise, it's a brand new generac
engine that will be run stock.
1) My battery pack is 72V nominal.
Rather than buy a generator, it may be better to buy an engine and couple
it up to a rewound 3-phase motor as an alternator, that provides around
65VRMS 3-phase, rectify that would be around 85V - close to the full
charged voltage of your battery pack. Alain St-Yves has used this method
successfully at 128 volts http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/682 and 144 volts
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/122 as range extending.
But I tend to think that your motor/controller is not intended for
continuous operation, and would think that you'd need to add some agressive
cooling strategies with what you've got, particularly given the aero drag
at speed of a bug, and the added weight of the trailer.
A pusher trailer http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/753 or
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/304 may be more appropriate, as with care
you'd be able to add a 110V generator to the engine and use that as a
charger for the EV to recharge as you drive, allowing the EV to provide
acceleration power then recharge as you go. This also should help when
registering it, as you can make a song-and-dance about the generator, so
they overlook the fact that the transmission and drive axles are still in
the trailer!
Hope this helps
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes Roger, you are on your toes and caught my typo. I was thinking the two
tons while writing the pounds. My apologies for any confusion I may have
caused on the List by my fingers not properly hooked to my brain. Roger, the
talk of it being light was meant as a joke. You might not have caught that
part :-) It's just my sick sense of humor acting up again.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 1:04 PM
Subject: RE: Electric "Jeep", Is this project feasable?
Roderick Wilde wrote:
First of all our Land Rover was not that heavy :-) It was
only a little over two tons.
Was it a little over 4000lbs (2 tons), or was it "two thousand plus"
(something over 1 ton), as your original description stated?
Maybe I need to dig out my copy of the LRM atricle and refresh my
memory! ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't be silly. Web based BBSs are more complicated than a simple mailing
list which means they have a larger potential for problems. Besides as has
been mentioned and tried many times on this list, anyone that is interested
in starting a web based EV BBS is more than welcome to. Let us all know
where it is at, and we will choice to participate or not...
damon
From: xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Strange EVDL goings-on
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:56:26 -0800 (PST)
Sure would be nice if we had a web based BBS and could
avoid problems like this.
;^) Yes, though I'm new here, I am aware of the
ongoing debate over this issue. I'll throw my vote in
as a yes on a BBS if anyone is counting. Seems like
there should be a way to do both somehow, but I don't
really know.
--- "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On 25 Jan 2007 at 13:53, Steven Lough wrote:
>
> > What happened ??
>
> Hmm, I thought SJSU had that fixed a couple of years
> ago. Maybe fixing
> something else re-broke this.
>
> It's a listserver bug triggered by Randy Burleson's
> sending an attachment to
> the list. The filter clips the attachment, which it
> should do, but it also knocks
> off all the messages after that from the digest. As
> I said I thought this was
> fixed some time ago but it seems to be broken again.
>
> SJSU is probably going to switch us over to Mailman
> soon, so these bugs in
> the listserver should all go away and be replaced by
> different bugs. ;-)
>
> David Roden
> EV List Administrator
> http://www.evdl.org/
>
>
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