EV Digest 6347
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
by "Dr. Andy Mars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get? Not
very, it shouldn't!)
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) why is there no chance for economical cars ..
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: DC/DC converter on Ebay
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Controller ratings
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: OT Copper, was: EEstor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
by "Dr. Andy Mars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: why is there no chance for economical cars ..
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: affordable BMS?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: why is there no chance for economical cars ..
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: In California you may moped in bike lanes.
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) This is Interesting - Who's Investing the Money (OT ?)
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: In California you may moped in bike lanes.
by Anthony Nguyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: In California you may moped in bike lanes.
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: FW: California Vehicle Code for Motorcycles, Motor-driven
Cycles,Motorized Bicycles, and Motorized Quadricycle/Tricycle
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: FW: California Vehicle Code for Motorcycles,
Motor-driven Cycles,Motorized Bicycles,
and Motorized Quadricycle/Tricycle
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: California Vehicle Code for Motorcycles, Motor-driven Cycles,
Motorized Bicycles, and Motorized Quadricycle/Tricycle
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: FW: California Vehicle Code for Motorcycles, Motor-driven
Cycles,Motorized Bicycles, and Motorized Quadricycle/Tricycle
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: FW: California Vehicle Code for Motorcycles, Motor-driven
Cycles,Motorized
Bicycles, and Motorized Quadricycle/Tricycle
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
While I am currently with AAA, and have been for a couple of decades, and
have insured three different EVs with them over the years, two conversions
and a GEM, I am about to get a quote comparison from FARMERS - Terry Connor
is apparently a particularly eco-conscious agent with them who was recently
referred to me - he even gives discounts for EVs, BioDiesel, CNG, and even
Hybrids - his card says, "Now when you drive an alternative fuel vehicle in
California, think of all the green you'll save." - for anyone in California
wanting to get a quote from Terry, his number is 310/365-6073 - I have no
relationship with him other than that I am getting a quote from him over the
next few days - with AAA's longevity/loyalty discounts, I am not sure that
FARMERS will be able to beat my current insurance rates, but I'll give it a
shot - when I have called other companies for quotes to compare, they have
always been a good bit more, (21st Century, Allstate, Statefarm, Mercury,
and Liberty are all companies with which I called to compare recently) -
21st Century and Liberty were not willing to insure my EV, but Allstate,
Statefarm, and Mercury all were willing to do it without a problem, just as
AAA has been doing - my last check before I renew my AAA policy is to check
with Terry about his special FARMERS program.
Until next INTERNEcTion -
Take care (and spread it around) -
Peace,
Andy
Andy Mars, Ph.D.
"Helping make a difference in the lives of kids - helping kids make a
difference in life."
Educational Consulting, Counseling, & Tutoring - & New Private School
Opening in About Two Years
www.MarsAcademy.org
Summer & Winter Camp Programs
www.CampExploration.org
Weekend Community Service Projects
www.KidsMakeADifference.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Maynard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:14 AM
Subject: RE: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
I specifically told Progressive it was electric. They make no
distinction between electric, ICE, or Hybrid. Treated like any other
licensable car.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
From: Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, January 25, 2007 10:02 pm
To: [email protected]
I know this has been covered, but I've done a couple searches in the
archives and haven't found any insurance companies mentioned as
writing EV insurance other than The Hartford. Some others people are
insured with?
Thanks,
Jerry
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--- Begin Message ---
I'd say you're geting ripped off by the recyclers - I recently got a quote
of over $2.00 per pound for dirty copper, that is, with the insulation ON.
I'll be selling some shortly - we'll see what price I actually get!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL post" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:22 PM
Subject: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
Not very, it shouldn't!)
> I am generating some used cable as I am going through my pack,
> putting new cables in to replace the old ones that were getting
> hot (which were most all of the cables made at the installation
> of the second pack in my car some five years ago - apparently
> defective cable that had some oxidation on the strands - I'll try
> to post about that some other time). The point of this post is
> that a fellow EV'er (and I believe he is on the EVDL also)
> prompted me to think about recycling that cable, when I mentioned
> I was going to throw the old stuff out. Well, I called my local
> recycler, Marin Recycling (Marin is the county where I live), and
> they gave me a price of 58 cents/pound, with the insulation
> removed from the cable. I doubt it's going to be more than a
> couple of pounds with the insulation off. Even if it was ten
> pounds, it would barely be worth my time to slice the insulation
> off the copper and drive it to the recycling place. There's just
> not that much of it. Anybody have different numbers/pound?
>
> Thanks,
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.11/652 - Release Date: 1/25/2007
3:32 PM
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ASwJJaE2bU
this is in german .. but if smart car and loremo say
such things .. then how or when WILL economical
cars be made ?
___________________________________________________________
Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! Mail.
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Massey wrote:
20 amp DC/DC on Ebay...
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Newmar-DC-DC-converter-power-supply-12-volt-new-NR-110_W0QQitemZ180076987390QQihZ008QQcategoryZ92078QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
If the output fuse is 20a, this is the *peak* output current, not the
average. The continuous duty output is probably 10-15 amps, which is
pretty low. Take this into account when bidding.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce Weisenberger wrote:
Alltrax 7245... 30V 400 amp Surplus Aircraft Generator...
The Alltrax peak rate is 450 amps for up to 2 minutes
and a hour rating of 200 amps. Will 200 amps be enough
to run a vehicle?
Aircraft generators are low-voltage high-current devices. That 400a is
their *continuous* rating. The Alltrax isn't really big enough to get
much torque out of this motor (and the motor is on the small side for
your Honda CRX as it is. If you you this controller, you'll have slow
accelleration and a low top speed.
I used a 30v 500a aircraft generator as my motor with a 72v pack in an
1974 Datsun pickup EV. It took 200a at 50 mph, and more like 400a at 70
mph. Peak current during acceleration was 1000 amps!
Was going to build a contactor controller but did not like the price
of contactors verses the rating. And at $125 a pop for the Kilovac
@ 200 amp it became almost same price for a pwm controller. And the
SW80's did not have enough current rating for my tastes.
The Kilovac and SW80 are the wrong parts for this job. You're going to
need a main contactor anyway. Albright SW200 series are easy to get, but
expensive new. For economy, I'd be looking for low-voltage high-current
forklift contactors (generally $20-$50).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joseph H. Strubhar wrote:
Actually, knob and tube wiring is safer than romex, because of the distance
the wires are separated.
There's nothing really wrong with knob and tube; our EVs today are wired
much the same way! The problems just come from it being 50+ years old!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ditto for AAA.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
Allstate
No problem, didn't even want to know/care that it is electric.
respectfully,
John
The Skunk, 58 HD Servicar conversion
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=751
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry McIntire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:02 PM
Subject: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
I know this has been covered, but I've done a couple searches in the
archives and haven't found any insurance companies mentioned as writing
EV insurance other than The Hartford. Some others people are insured
with?
Thanks,
Jerry
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.11/652 - Release Date: 1/25/2007
3:32 PM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Progressive had really good rates and didn't have any problems with a unique
Electric Vehicle.
FYI,
Peter
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I did not hear them say that economical cars will not be made but I don't
speak German. I saw innovative small economical cars being developed. If
they really thought that then why are they investing their time and money. I
can't believe they are all being interviewed and saying that no one will
ever want one of these cars but we just do this because we are bored. I
would love to watch a translated version.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 7:32 AM
Subject: why is there no chance for economical cars ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ASwJJaE2bU
this is in german .. but if smart car and loremo say
such things .. then how or when WILL economical
cars be made ?
___________________________________________________________
Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo!
Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
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No virus found in this incoming message.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry-
State Farm had no problem, issues or questions with setting up my 1921
Milburn Light Electric with antique car insurance.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
HI Lee I have sombody interested (as I am) in putting together one
of your bms's. I know you needed 10 orders to pay for the boards.
I could get 5 controller boards if this would help make an order.
Yes, that would certainly push us "over the hump"! I still have your
deposit check for one, but would probably replace it before actually
ordering (it's probably not good any more).
The Relay boards are done and ready to order. The Control board could be
done if I quit tweaking it (time to shoot the engineer).
So, let me know if this is a serious order for 5, and I'll proceed
accordingly.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I would love to watch a translated version.
me too ..
maybe someone here knows enough german to let us have a gist
___________________________________________________________
Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Too bad we barely have any bicycle lanes here's in soCal.
On 1/26/07, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Reading the California Motorcycle hand book I found this:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl655/dl665mcycle.pdf
You may ride a moped in a bicycle
lane at a reasonable speed. Be
careful of bicyclists using the
lane.
This also means you could run a three wheeled electric golfcart in the bike
lane if it is registered as a moped. Nice little loophole. Lawrence
Rhodes......
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I find it interesting who all in the Venture Capitol world is hopping
on board with A123Systems... ( hope this isn't too OT )
The article below explains...
http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=20930&hed=Battery
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Theres plenty of bike lanes where I live, in North San Diego and
Southern OC.
Peter Gabrielsson wrote:
Too bad we barely have any bicycle lanes here's in soCal.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
True, maybe I should have been more specific. I live in LA.,
On 1/26/07, Anthony Nguyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Theres plenty of bike lanes where I live, in North San Diego and
Southern OC.
Peter Gabrielsson wrote:
> Too bad we barely have any bicycle lanes here's in soCal.
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, so what is an E-3-Wheeler weighing 1500-2500lbs and capable of over 45mph?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Randy Burleson
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 3:01 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: California Vehicle Code for Motorcycles, Motor-driven Cycles,
> Motorized Bicycles, and Motorized Quadricycle/Tricycle
>
> You all made me dig up and answer my own questions, dang-it! :p
> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd1.htm
>
> There's exceptions, but the meat of the code is this (emphasis is mine):
>
> A motorcycle is ANY MOTOR VEHICLE with a rider seat/saddle, designed to
> travel on not more than 3 wheels, WEIGHING LESS THAN 1,500lbs, unless
> electrically powered, in which case it can weigh up to 2500lbs, at a max
> speed of 45mph.
> That's pretty hybrid-unfriendly, unless you can squeeze it under 1500lbs.
>
>
> Section 400: Motorcycle
> ---------------------------------------------------
> (a) A "motorcycle" is any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the
> use
> of the rider, designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact
> with the ground, and weighing less than 1,500 pounds.
> (b) A motor vehicle that has four wheels in contact with the ground, two
> of
> which are a functional part of a sidecar, is a motorcycle if the vehicle
> otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
> (c) A motor vehicle that is electrically powered, has a maximum speed of
> 45 miles per hour, and weighs less than 2,500 pounds, is a motorcycle if
> the
> vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
> (d) A farm tractor is not a motorcycle.
> (e) A three-wheeled motor vehicle that otherwise meets the requirements of
> subdivision (a), has a partially or completely enclosed seating area for
> the
> driver and passenger, is used by local public agencies for the enforcement
> of parking control provisions, and is operated at slow speeds on public
> streets, is not a motorcycle. However, a motor vehicle described in this
> subdivision shall comply with the applicable sections of this code
> imposing
> equipment installation requirements on motorcycles.
>
>
> Section 405: Motor-Driven Cycle
> -------------------------------------------
> A "motor-driven cycle" is any motorcycle with a motor that displaces less
> than 150 cubic centimeters. A motor-driven cycle does not include a
> motorized bicycle, as defined in Section 406.
>
>
> Section 406: Motorized Bicycle
> -------------------------------------------
> (a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or three-wheeled
> device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or
> having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic
> transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake horsepower
> and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more
> than
> 30 miles per hour on level ground.
> (b) A "motorized bicycle" is also a device that has fully operative pedals
> for propulsion by human power and has an electric motor that meets all of
> the following requirements:
> (1) Has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts.
> (2) Is incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more than 20
> miles per hour on ground level.
> (3) Is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when
> human power is used to propel
> the motorized bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour.
> (4) Every manufacturer of motorized bicycles, as defined in this
> subdivision, shall provide a
> disclosure to buyers that advises buyers that their existing
> insurance policies may not provide
> coverage for these bicycles and that they should contact their
> insurance company or insurance
> agent to determine if coverage is provided.
> (c) The disclosure required under paragraph (4) of subdivision (b) shall
> meet both of the following requirements:
> (1) The disclosure shall be printed in not less than 14-point
> boldface type on a single sheet
> of paper that contains no information other than the disclosure.
> (2) The disclosure shall include the following language in capital
> letters:
>
>
> Section 407: Motorized Quadricycle and Motorized Tricycle ------------- A
> "motorized quadricycle" is a four-wheeled device, and a "motorized
> tricycle"
> is a three-wheeled device, designed to carry not more than two persons,
> including the driver, and having either an electric motor or a motor with
> an
> automatic transmission developing less than two gross brake horsepower and
> capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30
> miles per hour on level ground. The device shall be utilized only by a
> person who by reason of physical disability is otherwise unable to move
> about as a pedestrian or by a senior citizen as defined in Section 13000.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I first bought my truck I checked with just about all of the
insurance companies in town. None of them cared that it was electric, but
only one of them (Progressive) would insure it because it was a
reconstructed/self constructed vehicle.
I.e the folks that build it did so many modifications (including a home
made frame) that it had to be retitled and issued a new VIN.
> I know this has been covered, but I've done a couple searches in the
> archives and haven't found any insurance companies mentioned as
> writing EV insurance other than The Hartford. Some others people are
> insured with?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jerry
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Illegal
>
>
> OK, so what is an E-3-Wheeler weighing 1500-2500lbs and capable of over
> 45mph?
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Randy Burleson
>> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 3:01 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: California Vehicle Code for Motorcycles, Motor-driven Cycles,
>> Motorized Bicycles, and Motorized Quadricycle/Tricycle
>>
>> You all made me dig up and answer my own questions, dang-it! :p
>> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd1.htm
>>
>> There's exceptions, but the meat of the code is this (emphasis is mine):
>>
>> A motorcycle is ANY MOTOR VEHICLE with a rider seat/saddle, designed to
>> travel on not more than 3 wheels, WEIGHING LESS THAN 1,500lbs, unless
>> electrically powered, in which case it can weigh up to 2500lbs, at a max
>> speed of 45mph.
>> That's pretty hybrid-unfriendly, unless you can squeeze it under
>> 1500lbs.
>>
>>
>> Section 400: Motorcycle
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> (a) A "motorcycle" is any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the
>> use
>> of the rider, designed to travel on not more than three wheels in
>> contact
>> with the ground, and weighing less than 1,500 pounds.
>> (b) A motor vehicle that has four wheels in contact with the ground, two
>> of
>> which are a functional part of a sidecar, is a motorcycle if the vehicle
>> otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
>> (c) A motor vehicle that is electrically powered, has a maximum speed of
>> 45 miles per hour, and weighs less than 2,500 pounds, is a motorcycle if
>> the
>> vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
>> (d) A farm tractor is not a motorcycle.
>> (e) A three-wheeled motor vehicle that otherwise meets the requirements
>> of
>> subdivision (a), has a partially or completely enclosed seating area for
>> the
>> driver and passenger, is used by local public agencies for the
>> enforcement
>> of parking control provisions, and is operated at slow speeds on public
>> streets, is not a motorcycle. However, a motor vehicle described in this
>> subdivision shall comply with the applicable sections of this code
>> imposing
>> equipment installation requirements on motorcycles.
>>
>>
>> Section 405: Motor-Driven Cycle
>> -------------------------------------------
>> A "motor-driven cycle" is any motorcycle with a motor that displaces
>> less
>> than 150 cubic centimeters. A motor-driven cycle does not include a
>> motorized bicycle, as defined in Section 406.
>>
>>
>> Section 406: Motorized Bicycle
>> -------------------------------------------
>> (a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or three-wheeled
>> device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or
>> having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an
>> automatic
>> transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake
>> horsepower
>> and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more
>> than
>> 30 miles per hour on level ground.
>> (b) A "motorized bicycle" is also a device that has fully operative
>> pedals
>> for propulsion by human power and has an electric motor that meets all
>> of
>> the following requirements:
>> (1) Has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts.
>> (2) Is incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more than 20
>> miles per hour on ground level.
>> (3) Is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when
>> human power is used to propel
>> the motorized bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour.
>> (4) Every manufacturer of motorized bicycles, as defined in this
>> subdivision, shall provide a
>> disclosure to buyers that advises buyers that their existing
>> insurance policies may not provide
>> coverage for these bicycles and that they should contact their
>> insurance company or insurance
>> agent to determine if coverage is provided.
>> (c) The disclosure required under paragraph (4) of subdivision (b) shall
>> meet both of the following requirements:
>> (1) The disclosure shall be printed in not less than 14-point
>> boldface type on a single sheet
>> of paper that contains no information other than the disclosure.
>> (2) The disclosure shall include the following language in capital
>> letters:
>>
>>
>> Section 407: Motorized Quadricycle and Motorized Tricycle -------------
>> A
>> "motorized quadricycle" is a four-wheeled device, and a "motorized
>> tricycle"
>> is a three-wheeled device, designed to carry not more than two persons,
>> including the driver, and having either an electric motor or a motor
>> with
>> an
>> automatic transmission developing less than two gross brake horsepower
>> and
>> capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30
>> miles per hour on level ground. The device shall be utilized only by a
>> person who by reason of physical disability is otherwise unable to move
>> about as a pedestrian or by a senior citizen as defined in Section
>> 13000.
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> I-5, Blossvale NY
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The question is: If you have an ICE M/C that's over 1500 lbs, then what
does the DMV categorize it as? Best I can tell is "not a motorcycle."
I don't think such a vehicle falls into any of the classifications, as
there are gaps in the classifications.
Also, any EMC over 1500 lbs is pretty likely to exceed 45 MPH.
Randy Burleson wrote:
You all made me dig up and answer my own questions, dang-it! :p
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd1.htm
There's exceptions, but the meat of the code is this (emphasis is mine):
A motorcycle is ANY MOTOR VEHICLE with a rider seat/saddle, designed to
travel on not more than 3 wheels, WEIGHING LESS THAN 1,500lbs, unless
electrically powered, in which case it can weigh up to 2500lbs, at a max
speed of 45mph.
That's pretty hybrid-unfriendly, unless you can squeeze it under
1500lbs.
Section 400: Motorcycle
---------------------------------------------------
(a) A "motorcycle" is any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the
use of the rider, designed to travel on not more than three wheels in
contact with the ground, and weighing less than 1,500 pounds.
(b) A motor vehicle that has four wheels in contact with the ground, two
of which are a functional part of a sidecar, is a motorcycle if the
vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
(c) A motor vehicle that is electrically powered, has a maximum speed of
45 miles per hour, and weighs less than 2,500 pounds, is a motorcycle if
the vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
(d) A farm tractor is not a motorcycle.
(e) A three-wheeled motor vehicle that otherwise meets the requirements
of subdivision (a), has a partially or completely enclosed seating area
for the driver and passenger, is used by local public agencies for the
enforcement of parking control provisions, and is operated at slow
speeds on public streets, is not a motorcycle. However, a motor vehicle
described in this subdivision shall comply with the applicable sections
of this code imposing equipment installation requirements on
motorcycles.
Section 405: Motor-Driven Cycle
-------------------------------------------
A "motor-driven cycle" is any motorcycle with a motor that displaces
less than 150 cubic centimeters. A motor-driven cycle does not include a
motorized bicycle, as defined in Section 406.
Section 406: Motorized Bicycle
-------------------------------------------
(a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or three-wheeled
device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or
having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an
automatic transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross
brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum
speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.
(b) A "motorized bicycle" is also a device that has fully operative
pedals for propulsion by human power and has an electric motor that
meets all of the following requirements:
(1) Has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts.
(2) Is incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more
than 20 miles per hour on ground level.
(3) Is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device
when human power is used to propel
the motorized bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour.
(4) Every manufacturer of motorized bicycles, as defined in this
subdivision, shall provide a
disclosure to buyers that advises buyers that their existing
insurance policies may not provide
coverage for these bicycles and that they should contact their
insurance company or insurance
agent to determine if coverage is provided.
(c) The disclosure required under paragraph (4) of subdivision (b) shall
meet both of the following requirements:
(1) The disclosure shall be printed in not less than 14-point
boldface type on a single sheet
of paper that contains no information other than the disclosure.
(2) The disclosure shall include the following language in
capital letters:
Section 407: Motorized Quadricycle and Motorized Tricycle -------------
A "motorized quadricycle" is a four-wheeled device, and a "motorized
tricycle" is a three-wheeled device, designed to carry not more than two
persons, including the driver, and having either an electric motor or a
motor with an automatic transmission developing less than two gross
brake horsepower and capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed
of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground. The device shall be
utilized only by a person who by reason of physical disability is
otherwise unable to move about as a pedestrian or by a senior citizen as
defined in Section 13000.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Somehow I think there must be a way to register such a vehicle. I think
the Doran 3-wheelers fell in this category (though they may have been
over 2500lb; not sure).
cheers,
Andrew
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Illegal
OK, so what is an E-3-Wheeler weighing 1500-2500lbs and capable of over
45mph?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Randy Burleson
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 3:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: California Vehicle Code for Motorcycles, Motor-driven Cycles,
Motorized Bicycles, and Motorized Quadricycle/Tricycle
You all made me dig up and answer my own questions, dang-it! :p
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd1.htm
There's exceptions, but the meat of the code is this (emphasis is mine):
A motorcycle is ANY MOTOR VEHICLE with a rider seat/saddle, designed to
travel on not more than 3 wheels, WEIGHING LESS THAN 1,500lbs, unless
electrically powered, in which case it can weigh up to 2500lbs, at a max
speed of 45mph.
That's pretty hybrid-unfriendly, unless you can squeeze it under
1500lbs.
Section 400: Motorcycle
---------------------------------------------------
(a) A "motorcycle" is any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the
use
of the rider, designed to travel on not more than three wheels in
contact
with the ground, and weighing less than 1,500 pounds.
(b) A motor vehicle that has four wheels in contact with the ground, two
of
which are a functional part of a sidecar, is a motorcycle if the vehicle
otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
(c) A motor vehicle that is electrically powered, has a maximum speed of
45 miles per hour, and weighs less than 2,500 pounds, is a motorcycle if
the
vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
(d) A farm tractor is not a motorcycle.
(e) A three-wheeled motor vehicle that otherwise meets the requirements
of
subdivision (a), has a partially or completely enclosed seating area for
the
driver and passenger, is used by local public agencies for the
enforcement
of parking control provisions, and is operated at slow speeds on public
streets, is not a motorcycle. However, a motor vehicle described in this
subdivision shall comply with the applicable sections of this code
imposing
equipment installation requirements on motorcycles.
Section 405: Motor-Driven Cycle
-------------------------------------------
A "motor-driven cycle" is any motorcycle with a motor that displaces
less
than 150 cubic centimeters. A motor-driven cycle does not include a
motorized bicycle, as defined in Section 406.
Section 406: Motorized Bicycle
-------------------------------------------
(a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or three-wheeled
device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or
having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an
automatic
transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake
horsepower
and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more
than
30 miles per hour on level ground.
(b) A "motorized bicycle" is also a device that has fully operative
pedals
for propulsion by human power and has an electric motor that meets all
of
the following requirements:
(1) Has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts.
(2) Is incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more than 20
miles per hour on ground level.
(3) Is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when
human power is used to propel
the motorized bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour.
(4) Every manufacturer of motorized bicycles, as defined in this
subdivision, shall provide a
disclosure to buyers that advises buyers that their existing
insurance policies may not provide
coverage for these bicycles and that they should contact their
insurance company or insurance
agent to determine if coverage is provided.
(c) The disclosure required under paragraph (4) of subdivision (b) shall
meet both of the following requirements:
(1) The disclosure shall be printed in not less than 14-point
boldface type on a single sheet
of paper that contains no information other than the disclosure.
(2) The disclosure shall include the following language in capital
letters:
Section 407: Motorized Quadricycle and Motorized Tricycle -------------
A
"motorized quadricycle" is a four-wheeled device, and a "motorized
tricycle"
is a three-wheeled device, designed to carry not more than two persons,
including the driver, and having either an electric motor or a motor
with
an
automatic transmission developing less than two gross brake horsepower
and
capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30
miles per hour on level ground. The device shall be utilized only by a
person who by reason of physical disability is otherwise unable to move
about as a pedestrian or by a senior citizen as defined in Section
13000.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Or an electric two wheeler that can do over 45?
Tim Humphrey wrote:
OK, so what is an E-3-Wheeler weighing 1500-2500lbs and capable of over 45mph?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Randy Burleson
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 3:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: California Vehicle Code for Motorcycles, Motor-driven Cycles,
Motorized Bicycles, and Motorized Quadricycle/Tricycle
You all made me dig up and answer my own questions, dang-it! :p
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd1.htm
There's exceptions, but the meat of the code is this (emphasis is mine):
A motorcycle is ANY MOTOR VEHICLE with a rider seat/saddle, designed to
travel on not more than 3 wheels, WEIGHING LESS THAN 1,500lbs, unless
electrically powered, in which case it can weigh up to 2500lbs, at a max
speed of 45mph.
That's pretty hybrid-unfriendly, unless you can squeeze it under 1500lbs.
Section 400: Motorcycle
---------------------------------------------------
(a) A "motorcycle" is any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the
use
of the rider, designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact
with the ground, and weighing less than 1,500 pounds.
(b) A motor vehicle that has four wheels in contact with the ground, two
of
which are a functional part of a sidecar, is a motorcycle if the vehicle
otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
(c) A motor vehicle that is electrically powered, has a maximum speed of
45 miles per hour, and weighs less than 2,500 pounds, is a motorcycle if
the
vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
(d) A farm tractor is not a motorcycle.
(e) A three-wheeled motor vehicle that otherwise meets the requirements of
subdivision (a), has a partially or completely enclosed seating area for
the
driver and passenger, is used by local public agencies for the enforcement
of parking control provisions, and is operated at slow speeds on public
streets, is not a motorcycle. However, a motor vehicle described in this
subdivision shall comply with the applicable sections of this code
imposing
equipment installation requirements on motorcycles.
Section 405: Motor-Driven Cycle
-------------------------------------------
A "motor-driven cycle" is any motorcycle with a motor that displaces less
than 150 cubic centimeters. A motor-driven cycle does not include a
motorized bicycle, as defined in Section 406.
Section 406: Motorized Bicycle
-------------------------------------------
(a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or three-wheeled
device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or
having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic
transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake horsepower
and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more
than
30 miles per hour on level ground.
(b) A "motorized bicycle" is also a device that has fully operative pedals
for propulsion by human power and has an electric motor that meets all of
the following requirements:
(1) Has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts.
(2) Is incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more than 20
miles per hour on ground level.
(3) Is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when
human power is used to propel
the motorized bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour.
(4) Every manufacturer of motorized bicycles, as defined in this
subdivision, shall provide a
disclosure to buyers that advises buyers that their existing
insurance policies may not provide
coverage for these bicycles and that they should contact their
insurance company or insurance
agent to determine if coverage is provided.
(c) The disclosure required under paragraph (4) of subdivision (b) shall
meet both of the following requirements:
(1) The disclosure shall be printed in not less than 14-point
boldface type on a single sheet
of paper that contains no information other than the disclosure.
(2) The disclosure shall include the following language in capital
letters:
Section 407: Motorized Quadricycle and Motorized Tricycle ------------- A
"motorized quadricycle" is a four-wheeled device, and a "motorized
tricycle"
is a three-wheeled device, designed to carry not more than two persons,
including the driver, and having either an electric motor or a motor with
an
automatic transmission developing less than two gross brake horsepower and
capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30
miles per hour on level ground. The device shall be utilized only by a
person who by reason of physical disability is otherwise unable to move
about as a pedestrian or by a senior citizen as defined in Section 13000.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
--- End Message ---
