EV Digest 6348
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
by ROBERT RICE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Can mixed batteries nimh and lead acid lead to best of both worlds for
an el
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: LED, HID, and other conservative lights? (efficient heating)
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Listserv v. BB/forum
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: why is there no chance for economical cars ..
by "Chuck Hays" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: FW: California Vehicle Code for Motorcycles,
Motor-driven Cycles,Motorized Bicycles,
and Motorized Quadricycle/Tricycle
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: FW: California Vehicle Code for Motorcycles,
Motor-driven Cycles,Motorized Bicycles,
and Motorized Quadricycle/Tricycle
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Kids an' Cars , WAS Re: Toyota vs GM............... WHY?
by ROBERT RICE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: California Vehicle Code for Motorcycles, Motor-driven Cycles,
Motorized Bicycles, and Motorized Quadricycle/Tricycle
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Monowheels
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: FW: Three-wheeling in California
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: FW: Three-wheeling in California
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Sushrut
by "sushrut patgaonkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Monowheels
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: FW: California Vehicle Code for Motorcycles, Motor-driven
Cycles,Motorized Bicycles, and Motorized Quadricycle/Tricycle
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Sushrut
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Sushrut
by Anthony Nguyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: why is there no chance for economical cars ..
by "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Freedom Ev update and BBB
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Sushrut
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Electric Vehicle bursts into flames in San Francisco - again!
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Starting out on a EV in the UK
by "Simon Chambers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: why is there no chance for economical cars ..
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Myles Twete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Jerry-
State Farm had no problem, issues or questions with setting up my 1921
Milburn Light Electric with antique car insurance.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
Hi EVerybody;
Hmmmm? An antique car in many states is anything OVER 25 years old. So
youse guyz with the older conversions have it made?Or to hunt down old gliders,
might be a good idea$$$???
Broadcasting live from the Sunshine State, goin' to BBB tonite. Survived
the Amtrak flight just fine from NYC, had a lovely Roomette on Silver Meteor,
right to Delray Beach. It IS a electric train that brought it's own Diseasel
Substation right along with it! Funny, they go all over the good "ole YSA, at
see level! Nobody rides trains, yeah, right ,nobody wants Electric Cars, ether.
Oh yeah, I had State Farm insurance on the Rabbit, but I have had State
Farm for over 40 years. They endeared themselves to me when they willingly sold
me coverage on the Barndoor VW Van, Micro buss,I bought in Seattle, when I came
home from overseas, from the Army thousands of years ago. Nobody else would.
Seeya at the Races, later.
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Nimh C cells the model car guys use have very high specific power, about
double that of an orbital or optima battery. IB4300 is an example. You would
have the issues of trying to keep a bunch of little cells balanced.
----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 6:08:23 PM
Subject: RE: Can mixed batteries nimh and lead acid lead to best of both worlds
for an el
Actually im pretty sure that lead acid has better specific power then nimh
but switch it around and i think you have the right idea.
>From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Can mixed batteries nimh and lead acid lead to best of both worlds
>for an electric vehicle?
>Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 13:28:56 -0800
>
>Can mixed batteries nimh and lead acid lead to best of both worlds for an
>electric vehicle?
>
>We know lead acid is cheap.
>We know nimh retains higher voltage.
>
>I think it would be possible to make an ev with a nimh pack that could be
>switched in for high acceleration when needed at higher voltage. When the
>lead acids are drooping in performance.
>You could run the motor at lower voltage off lead acid and kick in the nimh
>for a higher voltage motor switch for better performance.
>
>Total pack cost is lower than all nimh but you could switch in the nimh for
>SOME of the performance advantages of a full nimh.
>
>There would be other advantages too.
>Might need separate charging swicthes as well but total cost would still be
>lower than all nimh.
>
>Sort of a total electric but battery use hybrid.
>
>Plus a home builder could hack together a nimh booster pack from smaller
>nimh cells more easily than a whole car.
>
>Thoughts?
>
>
>
>www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming and
>the melting poles.
>
>www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
>
_________________________________________________________________
Buy, Load, Play. The new Sympatico / MSN Music Store works seamlessly with
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--- Begin Message ---
One thing about the "portable" A/C design. The ones I've seen have only
3 ports instead of 4. They take in the cooled room air instead of
outside air to cool the condenser and then blow it out the window. The
air must be replaced by air leaked in around doors, windows, etc. If
your house is well-sealed it will fail to flow at all. On the whole,
the performance is awful because that cooled air in the room was the
product and it wastes a huge volume of it just to cool the condenser.
You should be able to get around the problem easily enough by changing
it so the outside air cools the condenser.
Danny
Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
In my EV I plan to use a heat pump. I thought a portable heat/air
system could be modified to work. The one I was looking at was a
portable 10,000 BTU unit from Newegg that has heat also. Here is the
link. The unit could be disassembled and fit into the car where the old
heater system used to reside. It also comes with digital controls. It
pulls about 7 amps at 115V which should be fairly easy to do from an AC
inverter. It could also be possible to change the motor to a DC one and
run it straight off the pack voltage.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16896136008&ATT=96-13
6-008&CMP=OTC-Froogle
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 13:08
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: LED, HID, and other conservative lights? (efficient
heating)
On 25 Jan 2007 at 8:37, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
I believe the Toyota Prius uses
a heat pump system.
No, it doesn't; but the GM EV1 did. One of the many items from that
project that GM >could< have recycled for EV hobbyists instead of
crushing - and made a little money on - if they had cared.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've stayed out of this discussion up till now, despite firm opinions, because
I see a legitimate divide in the opinions of the various sides and the reasons
for them. But I've decided to toss my 2 cents worth into the fray.
First, I respect the history of the EVDL, and the work and patience of the
people who have nurtured it over the past 15 years. I recognize that the
current system can be more friendly to people with dial-up internet access.
And I guess we can all live with the recurring glitches - lost posts, posts
which mysteriously appear days after being sent in, the random and inconsistent
titling caused by people "replying" to a message just because it's the easiest
way to post about something else altogether, etc.
But time marches on. Pretty much every other interest group in the world has a
modern, thread oriented forum on line which is user friendly, allows immediate
posting and simple monitoring, facilitates the sorting of posts into coherent
threads, searching, etc. We, on the other hand, are still trying to wade
through reams of random posts on a wide variety of subjects, with responses
coming days after the post which triggered them, and no connection between the
two. Many of us set up random e-mail accounts just to deal with this one list.
(I have.)
It's actually kind of embarrassing. We EVers are already viewed as kind of odd
ducks, and here we are, stumbling along at horse and buggy speed with 20th
century technology as our primary means of group communication while the
knitters and clog-dancers are flying by in the fast lane of the internet.
It's good that there's really just this one list. I understand why the various
alternative EV fora which have been started have failed to catch on; you need a
critical mass of posts to do any good. And that mass is here. So my vote
(such as it is) would be for the EVDL stalwarts to give careful consideration
to moving this list into the 21st century, and converting to a BB/Forum style
of communication, and leave the venerable listserv mode to an honored token of
the past.
---------------------------------
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
maybe someone here knows enough german to let us have a gist
My German's a little rusty, but I listened to it and here's
what I get out of it:
The auto industry guy in the first part seems to be
saying that the reason they won't make electric
cars is because people don't want to buy them in
large enough quantities to make it economic.
I think he's also saying that technological development
of the ICE has realized a significant improvement
and still allows people to drive a more flexible car
that they don't have to plug in.
The environmentalist who drives the Prius says
that one reason the German auto industry isn't
getting seriously behind electric cars is that both
Porsche and Audi have long associations with
race cars and racing and the image of an electric
econobox just doesn't fit their corporate image.
He also says the German carmakers like Mercedes
are more into making luxury (or luxurious) cars,
so the Smart is really just a sop to the treehuggers.
The Swedish lady looking at the Loremo speaks
English, so that one's easy. :)
She says it's a beautiful car but since it's really
tiny she has no place to put the stroller for her
son. Junior seems to like the car but he's more
interested in his ice-cream cone. :)
The development engineers at Loremo seem to
be more infatuated with their innovative design
than with making something Swedish mums can
use.
They seem to be aiming for a price-point of
10,000 Euro (about CDN$20,000) -- but for a
car like that I would suspect they'd be taking
a loss on it (opinion!). It sounded to me like
the Loremo rep was saying that they see the
market as being very small -- everybody wants
a "sparsam" or "thrifty" car but they also want
beautiful design and a low price and to be able
to drive anywhere, anytime and carry a lot of
stuff. They're not interested in that -- they
want to make a beautiful car that a few people
can drive if it fits in their lifestyle.
That's my impression of it -- if someone else can
get a better understanding of it, please chime
in!
Chuck
Interior BC
_________________________________________________________________
Free Alerts : Be smart - let your information find you !
http://alerts.live.com/Alerts/Default.aspx
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Depends, if it's less than 1500 lbs, it's a motorcycle, otherwise it's
illegal in Ca.
> Or an electric two wheeler that can do over 45?
>
> Tim Humphrey wrote:
>> OK, so what is an E-3-Wheeler weighing 1500-2500lbs and capable of over
>> 45mph?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>> Behalf Of Randy Burleson
>>> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 3:01 AM
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: California Vehicle Code for Motorcycles, Motor-driven Cycles,
>>> Motorized Bicycles, and Motorized Quadricycle/Tricycle
>>>
>>> You all made me dig up and answer my own questions, dang-it! :p
>>> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd1.htm
>>>
>>> There's exceptions, but the meat of the code is this (emphasis is
>>> mine):
>>>
>>> A motorcycle is ANY MOTOR VEHICLE with a rider seat/saddle, designed to
>>> travel on not more than 3 wheels, WEIGHING LESS THAN 1,500lbs, unless
>>> electrically powered, in which case it can weigh up to 2500lbs, at a
>>> max
>>> speed of 45mph.
>>> That's pretty hybrid-unfriendly, unless you can squeeze it under
>>> 1500lbs.
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 400: Motorcycle
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> (a) A "motorcycle" is any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the
>>> use
>>> of the rider, designed to travel on not more than three wheels in
>>> contact
>>> with the ground, and weighing less than 1,500 pounds.
>>> (b) A motor vehicle that has four wheels in contact with the ground,
>>> two
>>> of
>>> which are a functional part of a sidecar, is a motorcycle if the
>>> vehicle
>>> otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
>>> (c) A motor vehicle that is electrically powered, has a maximum speed
>>> of
>>> 45 miles per hour, and weighs less than 2,500 pounds, is a motorcycle
>>> if
>>> the
>>> vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
>>> (d) A farm tractor is not a motorcycle.
>>> (e) A three-wheeled motor vehicle that otherwise meets the requirements
>>> of
>>> subdivision (a), has a partially or completely enclosed seating area
>>> for
>>> the
>>> driver and passenger, is used by local public agencies for the
>>> enforcement
>>> of parking control provisions, and is operated at slow speeds on public
>>> streets, is not a motorcycle. However, a motor vehicle described in
>>> this
>>> subdivision shall comply with the applicable sections of this code
>>> imposing
>>> equipment installation requirements on motorcycles.
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 405: Motor-Driven Cycle
>>> -------------------------------------------
>>> A "motor-driven cycle" is any motorcycle with a motor that displaces
>>> less
>>> than 150 cubic centimeters. A motor-driven cycle does not include a
>>> motorized bicycle, as defined in Section 406.
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 406: Motorized Bicycle
>>> -------------------------------------------
>>> (a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or
>>> three-wheeled
>>> device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or
>>> having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an
>>> automatic
>>> transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake
>>> horsepower
>>> and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more
>>> than
>>> 30 miles per hour on level ground.
>>> (b) A "motorized bicycle" is also a device that has fully operative
>>> pedals
>>> for propulsion by human power and has an electric motor that meets all
>>> of
>>> the following requirements:
>>> (1) Has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts.
>>> (2) Is incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more than 20
>>> miles per hour on ground level.
>>> (3) Is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when
>>> human power is used to propel
>>> the motorized bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour.
>>> (4) Every manufacturer of motorized bicycles, as defined in this
>>> subdivision, shall provide a
>>> disclosure to buyers that advises buyers that their existing
>>> insurance policies may not provide
>>> coverage for these bicycles and that they should contact their
>>> insurance company or insurance
>>> agent to determine if coverage is provided.
>>> (c) The disclosure required under paragraph (4) of subdivision (b)
>>> shall
>>> meet both of the following requirements:
>>> (1) The disclosure shall be printed in not less than 14-point
>>> boldface type on a single sheet
>>> of paper that contains no information other than the disclosure.
>>> (2) The disclosure shall include the following language in capital
>>> letters:
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 407: Motorized Quadricycle and Motorized Tricycle -------------
>>> A
>>> "motorized quadricycle" is a four-wheeled device, and a "motorized
>>> tricycle"
>>> is a three-wheeled device, designed to carry not more than two persons,
>>> including the driver, and having either an electric motor or a motor
>>> with
>>> an
>>> automatic transmission developing less than two gross brake horsepower
>>> and
>>> capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30
>>> miles per hour on level ground. The device shall be utilized only by a
>>> person who by reason of physical disability is otherwise unable to move
>>> about as a pedestrian or by a senior citizen as defined in Section
>>> 13000.
>>>
>> --
>> Stay Charged!
>> Hump
>> I-5, Blossvale NY
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Depends on when and where they were registered. If Ca change the rules,
then previously registered vehicles were probably grandfathered.
And of course this weight limit thing is just Ca restrictions. Other
states don't have the weight limit, and some other states don't allow
three wheelers at all, and some other states allow three wheelers; but not
vehicles like the Doran, and other states.....
> Somehow I think there must be a way to register such a vehicle. I think
> the Doran 3-wheelers fell in this category (though they may have been
> over 2500lb; not sure).
> cheers,
> Andrew
>
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> Illegal
>>
>>
>>> OK, so what is an E-3-Wheeler weighing 1500-2500lbs and capable of over
>>> 45mph?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Randy Burleson
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 3:01 AM
>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>> Subject: California Vehicle Code for Motorcycles, Motor-driven Cycles,
>>>> Motorized Bicycles, and Motorized Quadricycle/Tricycle
>>>>
>>>> You all made me dig up and answer my own questions, dang-it! :p
>>>> http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd1.htm
>>>>
>>>> There's exceptions, but the meat of the code is this (emphasis is
>>>> mine):
>>>>
>>>> A motorcycle is ANY MOTOR VEHICLE with a rider seat/saddle, designed
>>>> to
>>>> travel on not more than 3 wheels, WEIGHING LESS THAN 1,500lbs, unless
>>>> electrically powered, in which case it can weigh up to 2500lbs, at a
>>>> max
>>>> speed of 45mph.
>>>> That's pretty hybrid-unfriendly, unless you can squeeze it under
>>>> 1500lbs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Section 400: Motorcycle
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> (a) A "motorcycle" is any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for
>>>> the
>>>> use
>>>> of the rider, designed to travel on not more than three wheels in
>>>> contact
>>>> with the ground, and weighing less than 1,500 pounds.
>>>> (b) A motor vehicle that has four wheels in contact with the ground,
>>>> two
>>>> of
>>>> which are a functional part of a sidecar, is a motorcycle if the
>>>> vehicle
>>>> otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
>>>> (c) A motor vehicle that is electrically powered, has a maximum speed
>>>> of
>>>> 45 miles per hour, and weighs less than 2,500 pounds, is a motorcycle
>>>> if
>>>> the
>>>> vehicle otherwise comes within the definition of subdivision (a).
>>>> (d) A farm tractor is not a motorcycle.
>>>> (e) A three-wheeled motor vehicle that otherwise meets the
>>>> requirements
>>>> of
>>>> subdivision (a), has a partially or completely enclosed seating area
>>>> for
>>>> the
>>>> driver and passenger, is used by local public agencies for the
>>>> enforcement
>>>> of parking control provisions, and is operated at slow speeds on
>>>> public
>>>> streets, is not a motorcycle. However, a motor vehicle described in
>>>> this
>>>> subdivision shall comply with the applicable sections of this code
>>>> imposing
>>>> equipment installation requirements on motorcycles.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Section 405: Motor-Driven Cycle
>>>> -------------------------------------------
>>>> A "motor-driven cycle" is any motorcycle with a motor that displaces
>>>> less
>>>> than 150 cubic centimeters. A motor-driven cycle does not include a
>>>> motorized bicycle, as defined in Section 406.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Section 406: Motorized Bicycle
>>>> -------------------------------------------
>>>> (a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or
>>>> three-wheeled
>>>> device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or
>>>> having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an
>>>> automatic
>>>> transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake
>>>> horsepower
>>>> and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more
>>>> than
>>>> 30 miles per hour on level ground.
>>>> (b) A "motorized bicycle" is also a device that has fully operative
>>>> pedals
>>>> for propulsion by human power and has an electric motor that meets all
>>>> of
>>>> the following requirements:
>>>> (1) Has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts.
>>>> (2) Is incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more than 20
>>>> miles per hour on ground level.
>>>> (3) Is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when
>>>> human power is used to propel
>>>> the motorized bicycle faster than 20 miles per hour.
>>>> (4) Every manufacturer of motorized bicycles, as defined in this
>>>> subdivision, shall provide a
>>>> disclosure to buyers that advises buyers that their existing
>>>> insurance policies may not provide
>>>> coverage for these bicycles and that they should contact their
>>>> insurance company or insurance
>>>> agent to determine if coverage is provided.
>>>> (c) The disclosure required under paragraph (4) of subdivision (b)
>>>> shall
>>>> meet both of the following requirements:
>>>> (1) The disclosure shall be printed in not less than 14-point
>>>> boldface type on a single sheet
>>>> of paper that contains no information other than the disclosure.
>>>> (2) The disclosure shall include the following language in capital
>>>> letters:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Section 407: Motorized Quadricycle and Motorized Tricycle
>>>> -------------
>>>> A
>>>> "motorized quadricycle" is a four-wheeled device, and a "motorized
>>>> tricycle"
>>>> is a three-wheeled device, designed to carry not more than two
>>>> persons,
>>>> including the driver, and having either an electric motor or a motor
>>>> with
>>>> an
>>>> automatic transmission developing less than two gross brake horsepower
>>>> and
>>>> capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than
>>>> 30
>>>> miles per hour on level ground. The device shall be utilized only by a
>>>> person who by reason of physical disability is otherwise unable to
>>>> move
>>>> about as a pedestrian or by a senior citizen as defined in Section
>>>> 13000.
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Stay Charged!
>>> Hump
>>> I-5, Blossvale NY
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Damon and All,
E-gads, you're going to let a kid drive a new car? Statistically, kids WILL
crash a car before they turn 18.
Hi EVerybody;
Not for nuthin', but I MADE my kids (3)BUY their own cars AND pay for
their share, above my, rate for their insurance. They need a job to buy the
car and a car to GET to the job, double edged sward. Bottom line; They bought
and NEVER banged up any cars, but did collect their wrecked buddies cars to fix
up, too.At least I knew where my kids were, in those deformative years; All out
in the yard, place looked like a junk yard, but whatthehell I was raising KIDS,
not too concerned with a "House Beautiful" yard.A few speeding tickets, was the
worse they had to deal with. I was Very Lucky! They had to bury a few of their
friends, a sobering thought to ALL drivers EV's ,or otherwise.
My two amps worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Randy Burleson wrote:
> There's exceptions, but the meat of the code is this
> (emphasis is mine):
Perhaps an easier approach is to look at the Corbin Sparrow; this is a
3-wheeled vehicle that is legal as a motorcycle in CA, is electric, and
is capable of speeds in excess of 45mph max.
Googling 'Corbin Sparrow' turns up a site that lists its curb weight at
1350lbs, which suggests that the CA regs might properly be interpreted
to state that a motorcycle weighing 1500lbs or less may exceed 45mph,
and that while an electrically propelled vehicle weighing more than
1500-2500lbs but otherwise meeting the definition of a motorcycle, is
still considered a motorcycle but may not exceed 45mph.
Interestingly, if one goes to the NmG site and pulls up the online
manual, the curb weight is 1560lbs, which suggests that CA residents
contemplating the purchase of one might end up with an unregisterable
vehicle (or a very expensive NEV) unless they find a way to trim some
weight off...
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/TRANSPORT/motorwhl/motorwhl.htm#mclw
I haven't seen any of the Monowheel vehicles mentioned. It's an
interesting design (of 3 wheeler).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep... insurance can be tricky to find... and it's a big fine (here) if
you don't have it.
The odd thing is that my Farmers agent jumped to insure my car, but
another agent refused the same insurance to a friend. (BTW, mine was also
electric.)
> I'm hoping other California 3 wheelers jump in to help us both out. When I
> bought my Cushman I spent 2 days calling insurance companies here in
> California. With the combo of my cushman not starting life as an electric
> and being a 3 wheeler I could not find anyone to insure. Since less than
> 10% of my driving is on public roads I just gave up and did not insure or
> registar it.
>
> Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Federal weight number for a 3 wheel motorcycle to get DOT certified is
> 1,500lbs. curb weight (unloaded). There is also a width and length limit
> that I don't remember. I know the pizzabutt Sparrows were coming close to
> size limits. I think Zap Xebras actually exceed the weight limit by a
> couple
> of pounds, but have managed to squeak through.
>
> Dan
That's true, but DOT has little or nothing to do with a state
licensing/titling vehicles for operation. For instance, I can build a hot
rod and get it licensed here in Oregon... w/ little more than a frame and
engine. (It doesn't even require fenders.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have two questions
1. What happens to an ev at traffic lights , does the motor stops taking
power or does it keep
running ,, how do stop and go conditions affect the life of a battery
{li-ion}?
2. there is an ev with 4 flat motors ( hub motors ), how does such a vehicle
handle turns without a differential?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, because they're somewhat more suicidal than one would hope for.
I saw some videos of and interviews with Kerry McLean. He's definitely
the top monowheel guy but he has no problem saying they're impractical
and dangerous as hell. I saw the video where he was trying to take one
down the street at a modest speed and completely wiped out, seriously
injuring him.
Neat, though, and the history of the monowheel is fun to read up on.
I thought it would be really awesome to build a biwheel with electric
motors and a decent amount of sensors and control systems to keep it
stable- or unstable, if you have enough head clearance and have the
occupant(s) properly strapped in you could have fun gerbilling! Be a
hit at Burning Man!
Danny
Michael wrote:
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/TRANSPORT/motorwhl/motorwhl.htm#mclw
I haven't seen any of the Monowheel vehicles mentioned. It's an
interesting design (of 3 wheeler).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> OK, so what is an E-3-Wheeler weighing 1500-2500lbs and capable of
over 45mph?
By California Vehicle Code, it looks like it is... illegal.
Of course, the likelihood of the average officer knowing that particular
detail is pretty limited.
Take your chances, perhaps?
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The motor stops.
Depends on what kind of stop and go it is! Would be easy on the battery if
it was light acceleration, but hard on the battery if it was hard
acceleration.
----- Original Message -----
From: "sushrut patgaonkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 3:24 PM
Subject: Sushrut
I have two questions
1. What happens to an ev at traffic lights , does the motor stops taking
power or does it keep
running ,, how do stop and go conditions affect the life of a battery
{li-ion}?
2. there is an ev with 4 flat motors ( hub motors ), how does such a
vehicle
handle turns without a differential?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A differential is to take power coming from a single engine and split it
into different amounts for each wheel. With hub motors each wheel
automatically gets a different amount of power because they each have
their own engine
Dmitri wrote:
The motor stops.
Depends on what kind of stop and go it is! Would be easy on the
battery if it was light acceleration, but hard on the battery if it
was hard acceleration.
----- Original Message ----- From: "sushrut patgaonkar"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 3:24 PM
Subject: Sushrut
I have two questions
1. What happens to an ev at traffic lights , does the motor stops taking
power or does it keep
running ,, how do stop and go conditions affect the life of a battery
{li-ion}?
2. there is an ev with 4 flat motors ( hub motors ), how does such a
vehicle
handle turns without a differential?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That was an interesting video. There are several parts to the youtube video.
Its not why
there is no chance for economical cars but how there is little chance for an
inexpensive
car.
The gist is the EV may have to go along the same development path. The video
says there
is very little chance for an auto to be built as a startup and have it be an
inexpensive
product. People are used to a certain fairly high amount of safety, etc which
costs money
which shows up in the final price to consumer. They interview an architect who
owns a
Toyota Prius, in Germany. I haven't concluded/or seen any clue for what city it
is, in
Germany. He explains how cars were developed a hundred years ago and started
out as luxury
toys for the rich. Then as an example of this development path, they switch to
the Loremo
AG. A startup company, Loremo AG is now about 5 years old. They have been
working to
develop the Loremo car, which was shown at the Geneva auto show. In 2006 the
car is well
ahead of the design stage and may be priced at about 10000 euro or about 13000
dollars.
In the Loremo car is an EV -they showed a brief picture of a battery pack
indert the
seats. Two seats face forward and two face backward. the battery pack appears
to between
the seats. The whole front end is on a hinge and comes up as the door, with the
steering
column attached to the door/front-end. Its very aerodynamic. Though to the
woman they
asked, with her child in a stroller, she says it doesn't look practical for
her. She
wonders where she would put her child's stroller and baby-stuff.
They also mention the Ruetz Technology company an electronics parts supplier for
aftermarket parts. It shows some parts being installed in a BMW, which look
like a heater
unit of some sort.
Translating from German to English is a process of listening and turning it
around on the
fly. The grammar and sentence structure is so very different. It is a fun
language though.
Steve Love -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: why is there no chance for economical cars ..
> I did not hear them say that economical cars will not be made but I don't
> speak German. I saw innovative small economical cars being developed. If
> they really thought that then why are they investing their time and money. I
> can't believe they are all being interviewed and saying that no one will
> ever want one of these cars but we just do this because we are bored. I
> would love to watch a translated version.
> Roderick Wilde
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 7:32 AM
> Subject: why is there no chance for economical cars ..
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ASwJJaE2bU
> > this is in german .. but if smart car and loremo say
> > such things .. then how or when WILL economical
> > cars be made ?
> >
> >
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________
> > Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo!
> > Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/653 - Release Date: 1/26/2007
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/653 - Release Date: 1/26/2007
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
Things have not gone well in Freedom Land as
rushing to get ready for the BBB everything that could go
wrong has!!
Worst was my paint job that was not good and
had to sand it all off, losing 4 days. So now it's almost
ready for painting again but looks like it too. Because of
this, I'm only going down to the BBB for Sat instead of Sat
and Sunday as not much reason to show the Freedom until it's
ready.
When I return I'll be moving into my new
factory so I can work out of the weather and have a paint
booth!!
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some are listed in the FAQ at evparts. I just got a liability only, because my
independent insurance agent couldn't find a company to do an agreed value
policy, and a stated value policy was quite high. I think he went with safeco
for this one. I've also had a liability only EV policy through farmer's.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 1:02:51 AM
Subject: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
I know this has been covered, but I've done a couple searches in the
archives and haven't found any insurance companies mentioned as
writing EV insurance other than The Hartford. Some others people are
insured with?
Thanks,
Jerry
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stop and Go driving with Lion cells there is no issues. IF you have
properly designed battery pack.
Correctly designed economy-pack survives at least 5 years and 100 000
miles in town driving.
-Jukka
sushrut patgaonkar kirjoitti:
I have two questions
1. What happens to an ev at traffic lights , does the motor stops taking
power or does it keep
running ,, how do stop and go conditions affect the life of a battery
{li-ion}?
2. there is an ev with 4 flat motors ( hub motors ), how does such a
vehicle
handle turns without a differential?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At first I thought this was a hoax, similar to the stories about hollywood
celebrities whose cars had burst into flames inside their houses.
I still think it's arson. But whatever the case, it's real:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/01/26/BAGGONPRBP14.DTL
Fire closes Warming Hut
Electric car outside Crissy Field cafe bursts into flames
(01-26) 13:25 PST -- An electric vehicle parked outside the Warming Hut at
Crissy Field caught fire early this morning, damaging the popular cafe and
gift shop so severely that it will remain closed for several weeks while the
National Park Service makes repairs.
Golden Gate Bridge security officers saw a two-story pillar of flame shortly
after midnight and alerted the Park Service Fire Department, which
extinguished the fire within 30 minutes, said Rich Weideman, a spokesman for
the Golden Gate National Recreation Area.
Investigators determined the blaze started with an electrical fire in a
nearby Gem electric vehicle, but they do not know what went wrong with the
vehicle, Weideman said. The vehicle was unplugged and parked on the west
side of the Warming Hut, he said.
The fire caused relatively little damage, but the smoke it generated and the
water used to extinguish it made a mess of the building and its inventory,
Weideman said.
The Warming Hut is among the park's most popular buildings, a place where
tourists and locals alike grab a cup of coffee, a bite to eat and a
souvenir. With the Warming Hut boarded up, visitors are encouraged to visit
the Crissy Cafe not far away at the Crissy Center.
Today's fire was the second time a Gem vehicle has caught fire at the Golden
Gate National Recreation Area. One of the DaimlerChrysler-made vehicles
caught fire a year ago at Alcatraz Island. That vehicle was plugged in at
the time, prompting GGNRA officials to adopt a policy requiring that
unattended vehicles be left unplugged, Weideman said.
In both cases, the vehicles "burned literally to the frame," and
investigators suspect a problem with the vehicles' batteries or wiring,
Weideman said. Park authorities contacted DaimlerChrysler after last year's
fire and were told the automaker was not aware of any problems, Weideman
said.
Park officials have once again contacted DaimlerChrysler and will be working
with the company to determine what went wrong. In the meantime, the park and
the Golden Gate National Park Conservancy, the park's nonprofit fundraising
and outreach arm, are reviewing their policies regarding the use and storage
of Gem vehicles, Weideman said.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
After reading a lot of very interesting conversations over the past few
weeks, I have decided to post my first questions!
I'm looking into building (well converting) my first EV car and I am doing
my initial background research. I've noticed that there seems a very strong
EV parts business in America with an equally strong following. However in
the UK there is a distinct lack of places on which to get parts.
My main issue at the moment is locating reasonable affordable motors. I see
on evalbum that the Advance DC motor is extensively used in conversions, and
looking at the specs is understandable. Does anyone know of any UK suppliers
of EV motors that are at an affordable price?
Alternatively, are there any good types of motor that can be used in EV's?
For example I've noticed that the series wound Winch Motors seem very
powerful (however I don't know what their life would be like in continuous
usage) or even forklift motors?
Also why aren't 3-phase AC induction motor's (like what are attached to
lathes, mills, conveyor belts, etc) used in EV's? Since these produce large
amounts of reliable torque for long periods.
Kind Regards,
Simon
___________________________________________________________
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease
of use." - PC Magazine
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve kirjoitti:
They also mention the Ruetz Technology company an electronics parts supplier for
aftermarket parts. It shows some parts being installed in a BMW, which look
like a heater
unit of some sort.
Was it not a some sort of "smell" generator ? Strange stuff.... 1000 Eur
wunderbaum. Eh...
-Jukka
Translating from German to English is a process of listening and turning it
around on the
fly. The grammar and sentence structure is so very different. It is a fun
language though.
Steve Love -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: why is there no chance for economical cars ..
I did not hear them say that economical cars will not be made but I don't
speak German. I saw innovative small economical cars being developed. If
they really thought that then why are they investing their time and money. I
can't believe they are all being interviewed and saying that no one will
ever want one of these cars but we just do this because we are bored. I
would love to watch a translated version.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 7:32 AM
Subject: why is there no chance for economical cars ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ASwJJaE2bU
this is in german .. but if smart car and loremo say
such things .. then how or when WILL economical
cars be made ?
___________________________________________________________
Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo!
Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--
Jukka Järvinen
R&D Director
Oy Finnish Electric Vehicle Technologies Ltd
Teollisuuskatu 24 A3
11100 RIIHIMÄKI
jukka.jarvinen(at)fevt.com
cell phone +358-440-735705
wired phone +358-19-735705
fax +358-19-735785
--- End Message ---
