EV Digest 6349
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Monowheels / History & Photos / BikeMenu.com
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re:Insurance companies writing EV policies?
by "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: OT Copper, was: EEstor
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN(UC Davis' Prof. Andrew Frank re-engineers GM Equinox)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Starting out on a EV in the UK
by Jonathan Jekir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EVLN(Hero E-Cycles using UK's Ultra Motor)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EVLN(Experts say: fleet EVs successful, but not by individuals)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EVLN(MotivNation/Damon's light electric vehicle)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) EVLN(GEM nEV besmirches EV's reputation)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: New EVer, New EV
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: efficient heating
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Listserv v. BB/forum
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EV Insurance
by Tom Gocze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Electric Vehicle bursts into flames in San Francisco - again!
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
We have mono-wheels and Uni-racers (single wheel
nutcase racing) at:
http://www.bikemenu.com/motorcycle_photos.html
Note they are in the middle of page under different
menu buttons.
Jay Lashlee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-------------------------------------
--- Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, because they're somewhat more suicidal than
> one would hope for.
> I saw some videos of and interviews with Kerry
> McLean. He's definitely
> the top monowheel guy but he has no problem saying
> they're impractical
> and dangerous as hell. I saw the video where he was
> trying to take one
> down the street at a modest speed and completely
> wiped out, seriously injuring him.
> Neat, though, and the history of the monowheel is
> fun to read up on.
> I thought it would be really awesome to build a
> biwheel with electric
> motors and a decent amount of sensors and control
> systems to keep it
> stable- or unstable, if you have enough head
> clearance and have the
> occupant(s) properly strapped in you could have fun
> gerbilling! Be a hit at Burning Man!
> Danny
-----------------------------------
> Michael wrote:
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/TRANSPORT/motorwhl/motorwhl.htm#mclw
> I haven't seen any of the Monowheel vehicles
> mentioned. It's an interesting design (of 3
wheeler).
____________________________________________________________________________________
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I know this has been covered, but I've done a couple searches in the
> archives and haven't found any insurance companies mentioned as
> writing EV insurance other than The Hartford. Some others people are
> insured with?
Allstate, here. They didn't seem to care if it was electric or
nuclear powered, as far as I could tell. The car is a '76 though,
with liability only. The trick seems to be to already have a
policy, then add the new car over the phone later, as if you just
purchased it.
Brian
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jeff the comments about loose wires make me think you have alum. wire and
copper ? is this so ? are they mixed in the same box / on the same device ? I
refuse to use ge devices because of my experience with them #12 and #14 wire
can be *stabbed in * the back of recpticals but I do not do that on my stuff .
if you have copper wire and devices that are al rated you will also have those
type problems . also I use only #12 / 20a. for wall outlets and never more than
6 outlet per circuit > way under code limits but give me good functions . I
would suggest anyone who has to wire their batt. charger circuit use the next
higher wire size . ie #10 wire on 20 a bkeaker #12 on 15a bkr . also if the
wireing on the house is old please use fuses . they are a pain to replace all
the time but safer as breakers are resetable but only garrentteed for only the
first trip !! after that ------
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Shanab<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: OT Copper, was: EEstor
Actually, here is another viewpoint.
I have lived and worked on many homes over my years(standard Disclaimer
applies) even wired 4 of them and Recently I bought a new home, had it
built and paid extra for a panel upgrade, 100A service dropped in the
garage and the extra plugs and lighting. ( I have never been more
disappointed)
At least in this area houses in the 70's,80's and early 90's all had #12
as a minimum wire size. This meant 20A 115V circuits.
Even after all my belly achaing and paying upcharges I am very
dissasified with the wiring in my new home. Sure it looks like a lot of
breakers but when you discount all the required by law GFI seperate
breakers dedicated to the kitchen and bath only, you are left with 1
breaker covering all ceiling lights and non-gfi plugs in the kitchen, Tv
room and garage (Thank God I had a sub panel dropped) The first time I
plugged in the PFC and turned it up to 5 battery amps (<10A from wall) I
popped that breaker.
I later found that 1 more breaker powers EVERYTHING in the familyroom
and bedroom and back bathroom. When my new Air Conditioner broke and
they wanted $1100 for a PWM driven 1/10 HP condensor fan motor, I
bought a window AC unit. Yeah, right. If I want AC I have to walk thru
and shut off all lights and my computer first.
I knew a lot of electricians in the time i was working on houses and
this type of wireing is legal but unconscionable. The panel is good for
200 Amps but that would be 13 15Amp circuits and there isn't even that
(For those who don't know usually the breaker maxs add up to more than
the master becuase you don't use everthing at once. )
The #14 wire is also just to damn weak and some plugs were not screwed
down tight i think and useing the plugs 2 or 3 times and the wire breaks
off at the back of the plug. 3 failed already and one I will have to
rip out the wall because the @[EMAIL PROTECTED] didn't leave enough to work
with in
the box.
It use to be illegal to use push in on #14 for that reason, that seems
to be ok(legal) now.
To bring this back to EV's, The most current wireing laws have been
severly compromised, at least in this county, in the last 10-15 years.
If EV's and even plug in hybrids do become the norm we could start
having some problems. I would recommend people have a dedicated plug
wired in. If you are luck the panel is on the garage side, this is not
bad. The standard 115V plug in my garage used daily for an EV without
plugging and unplugging the extension cord from it, quit working after 3
months of service limited to 12A max on a 15 amp service. It seems the
rateings are "harbor freight" rateings, ie peak not continous.
Pull to hard on a #14 wire and it becomes #16 really really easy, no
margin for error.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(UC Davis' Prof. Andrew Frank re-engineers GM Equinox)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070122005377&newsLang=en
January 22, 2007 08:00 AM Eastern Time
Lithium Technology Corporation Powers US Hybrid Electric Vehicle
Project
UC Davis Hybrid Electric Vehicle Group Re-engineers GM Equinox
Using LTCs Lithium-ion Cells
PLYMOUTH MEETING, Pa.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Lithium Technology
Corporation, a global provider of large lithium-ion rechargeable
power solutions, is powering the Chevy Equinox being
re-engineered by the University of California, Davis Hybrid
Electric Vehicle Group as part of the Challenge X: Crossover to
Sustainable Mobility engineering competition. LTC provided a
series of high power lithium-ion cells to power the Universitys
demonstration vehicle entry for the contest sponsored by General
Motors (GM) and the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE).
LTC delivered 95 cells used by the UC Davis team to build the
battery for the converted plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV).
Each cell has an output of 3.6 V (nominally) and a capacity of 45
Ah. The nominal battery pack voltage is 342 V, and with each cell
limited to 4.2V, the maximum pack voltage is approximately 400 V.
The converted Chevy Equinox is a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle
(PHEV). This means that the battery can be charged by either a
generator driven by the internal combustion engine (ICE) or a
standard AC household electrical socket. The PHEV can drive over
40 miles on the overnight electrical charge and has a fuel
economy of 36 mpg in the city, and 38 mpg on the highway in
hybrid mode, as compared to the original range of 19 mpg city and
25 mpg highway. This is an improvement which reflects a reduction
of approximately 68% in city and 39% for highway fuel consumption
and release of pollutants.
LTC is commited to continuously advancing automotive battery
solutions, and we are proud to be associated with this project,
which illustrates that the technology to make a difference is
available today, comments Dr. Klaus Brandt, executive vice
president of LTC and managing director of GAIA. Lithium-ion
batteries are the technology of choice for hybrid and electrical
vehicles offering improved performance and cost advantages over
conventional technologies.
LTCs cells and the UC Davis project were recently highlighted in
a video produced by Plug-In Partners, a national grass-roots
organization consisting of numerous state and local government
offices, research and academic institutions and diverse
businesses that have collaborated to demonstrate to automakers
that a market for flexible-fuel PHEVs exists today. The full
video discussing the economic and environmental benefits of PHEVs
can be viewed on the Plug-In Partners website at
http://www.pluginpartners.org/includes/images/PHEV%20Video%2010%20Best
.wmv .
(Due to its length, this URL may need to be copied/pasted into
your Internet browser's address field. Remove the extra space
if one exists.)
Andrew Frank, the UC Davis team adviser and professor of
Mechanical Engineering at the University discusses how LTCs
technology was integrated into the groups vehicle and the
advantages of lithium-ion. The battery from the old car is metal
hydride, its still good but its older technology
the new
lithium battery has the same capacity as the old battery but is
much smaller and half the weight, comments Prof. Frank.
About Lithium Technology Corporation: Lithium Technology
Corporation (LTC) is a global provider of large format
rechargeable power solutions for diverse applications, and offers
the largest lithium-ion cells with the highest power of any
standard commercial lithium ion cell produced in the western
hemisphere. With more than 30 years of experience, LTC leverages
its extensive expertise in high power and large battery
assemblies to commercialize advanced lithium batteries as a new
power source in the military and national security systems,
transportation and stationary power markets.
LTC manufactures the GAIA® product line of large, high power
hermetically sealed rechargeable lithium-ion cells and batteries.
The Company's product portfolio includes large cells and
batteries from 10 times the capacity of a standard laptop
computer battery to 100,000 times greater. LTC manufactures a
variety of standard cells that are assembled into custom large
batteries complete with electronics (battery management systems)
and electronics to communicate with other components of the
system for performance monitoring.
LTC headquarters are located in Plymouth Meeting, PA and R&D in
Nordhausen, Germany. LTC sales for the U.S. and European markets
are managed out of each of the offices. For more information
about LTC, its technology and products, please visit
http://www.lithiumtech.com .
Safe Harbor for Forward-looking Statements: The foregoing
information contains forward-looking statements [...] Contacts
The Red Consultancy Allyson Curtis, 212-529-8474
[EMAIL PROTECTED] © Business Wire 2007
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
3-phase AC drive is used in EVs (just look at AC Propulsion or Metric
Mind Engineering) but it is not as common a choice among DIYers due
to the cost premium. If you have the money for an AC system, there
are several advantages, one is torque, another is regenerative
braking, and I believe there are a few others. Also, DC systems in
the 100-160v range that is most common among hobbyists are very
commonly available, while AC drives vary, some are high voltage (240
anywhere up to nearly 400v) and some can be found running as low as 72v.
On 26-Jan-07, at 6:48 PM, Simon Chambers wrote:
Hi,
After reading a lot of very interesting conversations over the past
few
weeks, I have decided to post my first questions!
I'm looking into building (well converting) my first EV car and I
am doing
my initial background research. I've noticed that there seems a
very strong
EV parts business in America with an equally strong following.
However in
the UK there is a distinct lack of places on which to get parts.
My main issue at the moment is locating reasonable affordable
motors. I see
on evalbum that the Advance DC motor is extensively used in
conversions, and
looking at the specs is understandable. Does anyone know of any UK
suppliers
of EV motors that are at an affordable price?
Alternatively, are there any good types of motor that can be used
in EV's?
For example I've noticed that the series wound Winch Motors seem very
powerful (however I don't know what their life would be like in
continuous
usage) or even forklift motors?
Also why aren't 3-phase AC induction motor's (like what are
attached to
lathes, mills, conveyor belts, etc) used in EV's? Since these
produce large
amounts of reliable torque for long periods.
Kind Regards,
Simon
___________________________________________________________
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its
simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Hero E-Cycles using UK's Ultra Motor)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.domain-b.com/companies/companies_h/hero_cycles/20070105_launch.htm
Hero Cycles to launch electric two-wheelers in collaboration with
UK's Ultra Motor 5 January 2007
Mumbai: The fast growing Indian automobile industry will soon
witness the emergence of electric two-wheelers. The world's
largest bicycle manufacturer, Ludhiana-based Hero Cycles Limited
(HCL), in technical collaboration with UK-based electric vehicles
company Ultra Motor Company (UMC) has announced the launch seven
variants of e-bikes and e-scooters, branded "Hero Electric.
The vehicles are priced between Rs.15,000 to Rs. 20,000 and
E-Scooters are in the range of Rs. 24,000 to Rs. 28,000. The
running cost of these vehicles, the company says, is just a tenth
of the conventional petrol driven two-wheelers while maintenance
costs just a third of a conventional two-wheeler. Depending on
the model of two-wheeler, a single charge can last between 40km
and 70km, with the running cost being an unbelievable 10 paise
per km the cost of charging the battery.
To ensure appropriate technology behind this launch, Hero Cycles
Limited has signed a technical collaboration-cum-joint marketing
agreement with Ultra Motor Company, to produce and jointly market
this new range of electric two-wheelers in India. The electric
two-wheelers will open up a new segment of value conscious
consumers. Low running cost will be the major catalyst for these
environment friendly vehicles.
"In a market where there are 1.6 million two-wheelers sold every
month (including bicycles, scooters and motorbikes), these
technologically advanced yet affordable electric two-wheelers
will definitely herald a major change in the Indian two wheeler
industry," Vijay Munjal, managing director, Hero Cycles Limited.
The two-wheelers will be equipped with Ultra Motor's "Power
Pack", consisting of its motor, electronic controller,
specialised battery and charger, which Hero Cycles will integrate
and assemble.
According to Ian Woodcock, chairman, Ultra Motor Company, UK,
"Our business model is to partner with leading vehicle companies
in different countries, to jointly develop and market electric
vehicles specifically designed to meet the requirements of local
markets. Together with Hero Cycles the largest manufacturer of
bicycles on the planet - Ultra Motor Company's broad portfolio of
electric vehicle technology solutions will bring about a paradigm
shift in Indian transportation."
Copyright © 1999-2007 The Information Company Private Limited.
All rights reserved.
===
http://www.indiainfoline.com/news/innernews.asp?storyId=23504&lmn=1
Hero Cycles launches electric two-wheelers
India Infoline News Service / Mumbai Jan 04, 2007 17:20
It has signed a technical collaboration cum joint marketing pact
with UK-based Ultra Motor to produce and jointly market the new
range of e-bikes and e-scooters
Hero Cycles Ltd., the worlds largest bicycle manufacturer, in
technical collaboration with UK-based Ultra Motor Co. (UMC), on
Thursday launched its unique range of Electric Two Wheelers in
the country.
These vehicles will have seven variants of E-Bikes and E-Scooters
and will be branded as Hero Electric, with the Ultra Powered
technology tag.
To ensure appropriate technology behind this launch, Hero Cycles
has signed a technical collaboration cum joint marketing
agreement with Ultra Motor, to produce and jointly market the new
range of electric two-wheelers in India.
"In a market where there are 1.6mn two-wheelers sold every month
(including cycles, scooters and bikes), these technologically
advanced yet affordable electric two wheelers will definitely
herald a major change in the Indian two wheeler industry," said
Vijay Munjal, Managing Director, Hero Cycles.
Ultra Motor has provided the electric vehicle technology, besides
the Ultra-Motor, Electronic Controller, Specialized Battery and
Charger. Hero Cycles is responsible for the mechanical
integration, assembly, manufacturing and services of the
vehicles.
Additionally, both Hero Cycles and Ultra Motor will work towards
developing the electric vehicle business in India by not only
investing in joint marketing of the electric two-wheelers but
also by setting up retail and services infrastructure.
" Together with Hero Cycles - the largest manufacturer of
bicycles on the planet - Ultra Motor's broad portfolio of
electric vehicle technology solutions will bring about a paradigm
shift in Indian transportation," said Ian Woodcock, Chairman,
Ultra Motor.
The Hero E-Bikes are priced between Rs15,000 to Rs 20,000. The
Hero E-Scooters are in the range of Rs 24,000 to Rs 28,000. The
running cost of these E-Bikes and E-Scooters is one tenth of the
conventional petrol driven two wheelers. What's more, their
maintenance cost is just a third of the conventional
two-wheelers.
Depending on the model of electric two wheeler, a single charge
can last between 40 kms and 70 kms. The price of running an
electric two wheeler works out to be an unbelievable 10 paise per
km, which is the cost of charging the battery.
Hero Cycles in partnership with Ultra Motor has aggressive plans
to roll out these electric two wheelers in India. The company is
aiming to open an extensive dealer network in 16 major cities
across the country, between January and March for comprehensive
service and sales experience.
The first phase of rollout will be in North India of Delhi, NCR,
Ludhiana and Chandigarh. West and South India launches will
follow in the second phase of the rollout plan in Q3/Q4 of 2007.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Experts say: fleet EVs successful, but not by individuals)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.simivalleyacorn.com/news/2007/0105/Community/017.html
[
http://www.simivalleyacorn.com/news/2007/0105/Community/017p1_xlg.jpg
]
Size still matters in local automotive world
Demand for large cars remains high even as trends move to reduce
emissions By Sylvie Belmond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HAPPY WITH A HYBRID- Moorpark City Councilmember Keith Millhouse
displays the underthehood mechanics of his Toyota Prius.
[...]
Hybrid trends
"We anticipate that hybrids will make up about 1.5 percent of car
sales in 2007," said Kevin Riddell, an automotive analyst for
Westlake based JD Powers and Associates, a global marketing
information firm that conducts independent surveys of customer
satisfaction, product quality and buyer behavior.
Hybrid owners earn an average of $113,000 per year, and 40
percent of them have an advanced college degree, Riddell said.
Studies show that people say they're environmentally conscious
when they look to buy a car, Riddle said, but when the rubber
meets the road, environmental concerns are among the least
important factors. Hybrid sales tend to increase when gas prices
go up and slow down when costs dip.
"It seems that consumers are paying more attention to what hits
the pocketbook," Riddell said.
Riddell also indicated that hybrid owners anticipate more gas
savings then they actually get.
"They expect to get 28 more miles per gallon but get about 7.5
miles per gallon because they don't change their driving style,"
he said.
Even though they're not perfect, Ridell said he thinks hybrids
are successfully bridging a gap.
"You get the alternate power to boost your range- at the same
time they're not as expensive as a totally electric vehicle," he
said.
But some gas-powered small sedans don't fall far behind when it
comes to fuel efficiency, he said.
Manufacturers of Japanese cars have an advantage in the hybrid
field now, but the playing field will level out since other
companies are working together make a hybrid system for larger
vehicles.
"Because research is so expensive, General Motors, Daimler
Chrysler and BMW formed an alliance to design a hybrid system
that all three manufacturers will use," Riddell said.
A hybrid Chevy Tahoe and GMC Yukon should hit the market toward
the end of this year.
At the same time Chrysler will bring out a Dodge Durango with the
same system and BMW will follow suit.
There will also be new plug-in hybrids that use more battery
power, the analyst said. The new cars will have electrical
systems that can hold a charge longer then the current hybrids
can, so drivers can use even less gas.
Other alternatives lag behind
[...]
Solely electric vehicles didn't succeed in the marketplace
because they weren't practical for individual consumers; they
were, however, successfully used in fleets for a time, car
experts said.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(MotivNation/Damon's light electric vehicle)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://digital50.com/news/items/BW/2001/07/14/20070126005468/motivnation-to-introduce-new-product-line-of-light-electric-vehicle-through-damons.html
IRVINE, Calif.-(Business Wire)-January 26, 2007 - MotivNation, an
Orange County, California-based provider and manufacturer of
"tools and toys for the automotive enthusiast," today announced
the introduction of a light electric vehicle through Damon's
division [ http://damonsmc.com ].
George R. Lefevre, MotivNation CEO, commented, "We're excited
about this upcoming product featuring innovative motor,
controller, battery and manufacturing techniques from this
alternative energy line of product."
About MotivNation:
Based in Irvine, California, MotivNation is aggressively
positioned in the custom automotive and motorcycle enthusiast
market. Damon's is in the business of customizing motorcycles and
automobiles. TrixMotive is in the business of converting
automobile chassis into stretched limousines and other
specialized automotives. MotivSource is an automotive supplier
delivering advanced systems and components to the motor vehicle
industry.
MotivNation's business divisions provide a full range of services
that cater to the custom motorcycle and automotive enthusiast,
including the sale, manufacture, converting, customization, armor
protecting, and installation of custom-built motorcycles and auto
parts and accessories, as well as restoration, repair, and
servicing.
For more information, visit http://www.MotivNation.com. Safe
Harbor Statement: This news release contains forward-looking
statements[...]
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(GEM nEV besmirches EV's reputation)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/16555501.htm
Posted on Fri, Jan. 26, 2007 Bay City News Service
Electric car sparks blaze at Crissy Field in S.F.
An electric car being recharged outside a cafe and bookstore at
San Francisco's Crissy Field caught fire overnight and caused
substantial damage to the building, authorities said today.
Nobody was hurt in the blaze, but ``there was quite a bit of
damage to the interior of the Warming Hut,'' a building owned by
the National Park Service, national parks spokesman Michael
Feinstein said.
``It was an electrical fire. There was an electric car being
charged next to the building'' that experienced some sort of
short or other electrical problem before going up in flames, San
Francisco Fire Department spokeswoman Mindy Talmadge said.
The park service owns the car, she said.
Firefighters learned of the blaze around midnight and the fire
was under control by 12:30 a.m., but not before flames had
reached up the side of the building and into the attic, Talmadge
said.
The lower part of the Warming Hut, a showcase for sustainable
renovation, was damaged by water, but no official damage estimate
was available this morning, she said.
Copyright © 2006 by Bay City News, Inc. -- republication,
re-transmission or reuse without the express written consent of
Bay City News, Inc. is prohibited.
© 2007 MercuryNews.com and wire service sources. All Rights
Reserved.
===
http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=5996569&nav=9qrx
Electric car outside Crissy Field cafe bursts into flames
SAN FRANCISCO An electric CAR parked outside the Warming Hut cafe
at Crissy Field caught fire early this morning, damaging the
popular business and gift shop so severely that it will remain
closed for several weeks.
Golden Gate Bridge security officers saw a two-story flames
shortly after midnight and alerted the Park Service Fire
Department, which extinguished the fire within a half hour.
Investigators determined the blaze started with an electrical
fire in a nearby Gem electric vehicle, but they do not know what
went wrong.
Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This
material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or
redistributed.
All content © Copyright 2002 - 2007 WorldNow and KESQ. All Rights
Reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think lee's set up with the full wave bridge feeding a inductr/ capactor
filter system the simplists and full wave bridges are fairly cheap and you can
put a bunch of them in parrellal and it be very cost effective !! the full wave
bridges I was thinking about are found on lots of mfg. machinery . and
electronic supply house will probably be the cheapest source . I cannot
remember the co we use at work . I just take the old out and some one else
orders sorry I cannot help more .
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Hart<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: New EVer, New EV
Bryan Taylor wrote:
> The trailer will have a traditional gas generator on it that provides
> 8kw continuous. For those of you that speak of tuning the engines for
> the most efficient (or minimal toxicity), I would love to know how
> someone might go about doing that.
You could modify it to run on E85 or even straight alcohol.
> My battery pack is 72V nominal... If power is constant going into
> the batteries, does the peak voltage matter from a battery health
> perspective?
Basically, they start to gas and get hot if you try to put high currents
into them when the voltage is over 2.4 volts per cell; that's 86v on a
72v pack. So, your generator/charger setup needs some kind of regulation
or controller to prevent this.
> I was originally planning on a transformer/rectifier configuration
> that would provide a fairly clean DC signal from the trailer at the
> cost of the weight and cost of the the transformer.
Transformer-rectifier chargers are very common. The charging current
from such a charger is actually pulsing; all the current flows at the
peaks of the AC line voltage. This won't bother the battery as long as
the peak voltage stays under the above limit.
However, the real problem with such a charger is that it has a poor
power factor of 0.7 or so. This means you can only get 70% of the
generator's rated power before it overheats.
> An alternate design... eliminates the transformer by using thyristors
> for the rectifier diodes. A controlling circuit would adjust the phase
> angle (delay) for the configured power.
This is a phase controlled charger; they are also very common. However,
their power factor is even worse! You'd be doing good to get even 50% of
your generator's rated output with a phase-controlled charger.
There are a number of better solutions, but they cost more and/or take
more work.
Rich Rudman sells a PFC (power factor corrected) charger that maximizes
the power you can get from your generator, and lets you efficiently
regulate the charging voltage and current. It is expensive, though.
You can simply rectify the generator's AC output directly, but reduce
the engine's speed and/or fiddle with the regulation circuit to lower
its basic output voltage. This requires a lot of fiddling.
You can rectify the generator's AC output, but put a series inductor in
one leg going to the bridge, and an AC-rated capacitor across the
generator's AC output. The inductor limits the charging current, but
also causes a phase shift and poor power factor. The capacitor shifts
the phase back toward 100%. You'll have to experimentally pick the
optimal value of inductor and capacitor, but this is fairly
straightforward with a meter that can measure AC current, voltage, and
power factor (a $40 Kill-A-Watt meter, for example).
> Can a charger be used while the car is under operation and
> the batteries are being intermittently discharged?
Yes. Properly done, the batteries work even better this way.
> Now for some easy questions. I've been getting data from the
> Alltrax and it brought up the question about when you see ratings for
> the controller (amperage limits) are those battery amps or motor amps?
They give both.
> I've looked high and low and can't find specs on the EGC8 batteries
> (from Sams Club website, Energizer website, or Johnson Controls)
That's an 8v golf cart battery, so it's probably about 175 amphours at
the 20-hour rate, and about 75 minutes at 75 amps.
> the D&D motor... is 10hp cont, 40hp peak but what are the time limits
> for what level?
There are no absolute numbers, because it depends on RPM and cooling.
Figure on about 5-10 minutes at 40 hp. It will be easy to tell from
motor temperature if you need to know. If it gets too hot to put your
hand on it, it's overheating! :-)
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
thanks I was looking for something like this and ur not far from my thoughts
about how to get r done . I was thinkg of plugging in the heated tank at night
so when I started in the a.m. I wolud not use battery power for a ways , then
when I got in to come home switch to battery power heat / defrost . I like ur
system
----- Original Message -----
From: Roland Wiench<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: efficient heating
I found that when using electric hot water heat or resistance heater in the
same heater core area in a vehicle, it is best to rework the incoming
ambient air ducts and change it to a circulatory system.
I at first used a 2500 watt 240 v engine heater design for a semi and any
time it was below 0, I had to crank the water temperature to 210 degrees F
for defrosting the windshield.
Remember that a engine coolent temperature can get over 250 degrees F. and
out side air is use to temper it. So I adjusted the doors that brought in
the outside air and rework the duct so the cab air would circulated back
through the heater.
Now, the water temperature only has to get to 50 degrees to start defrosting
the windshield. I change this water heating unit to a 120 V 1000 watt
engine heating unit, and it works just fine as a defroster.
For cab heating, I use two small 640 watt 120 v ceramic under dash cab
heaters, that I got from a auto parts store. They are tuck way back and
mounted on the firewall. These units only need to be on for about 5 minutes
when its between 0 to 30 degrees.
If its below 0 degrees, I then preheat with the plug in power by using a
transfer selector switch.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 6:59 AM
Subject: Re: efficient heating
> Are you sure it's an actual heat pump when used for heating? It doesn't
> say.
> Maybe it's just resistive heating.
>
>
> I also found these conversions on the evalbum with a heat pump:
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/701<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/701>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/378<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/378>
>
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/338.html<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/338.html>
"Heater/AC is QUITE effective.
> Additional heat provided by watercooled motor/inverter."
> Hey, I thought you guys just said there isn't much heat from the water??
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 7:48 AM
> Subject: RE: LED, HID, and other conservative lights? (efficient heating)
>
>
> > In my EV I plan to use a heat pump. I thought a portable heat/air
> > system could be modified to work. The one I was looking at was a
> > portable 10,000 BTU unit from Newegg that has heat also. Here is the
> > link. The unit could be disassembled and fit into the car where the old
> > heater system used to reside. It also comes with digital controls. It
> > pulls about 7 amps at 115V which should be fairly easy to do from an AC
> > inverter. It could also be possible to change the motor to a DC one and
> > run it straight off the pack voltage.
> >
> >
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16896136008&ATT=96-13<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16896136008&ATT=96-13>
> > 6-008&CMP=OTC-Froogle
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of David Roden
> > Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 13:08
> > To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> > Subject: RE: LED, HID, and other conservative lights? (efficient
> > heating)
> >
> > On 25 Jan 2007 at 8:37, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
> >
> >> I believe the Toyota Prius uses
> >> a heat pump system.
> >
> > No, it doesn't; but the GM EV1 did. One of the many items from that
> > project that GM >could< have recycled for EV hobbyists instead of
> > crushing - and made a little money on - if they had cared.
> >
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EV List Administrator
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Want
> > to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> > switch to digest mode? See how:
http://www.evdl.org/help/<http://www.evdl.org/help/> = = = = = = =
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> > To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the
> > webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/<http://www.evdl.org/help/> .
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Steve Condie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> But time marches on. Pretty much every other interest group in the
world
> has a modern, thread oriented forum on line which is user friendly,
allows
> immediate posting and simple monitoring, facilitates the sorting of
posts
> into coherent threads, searching, etc...
> It's actually kind of embarrassing. We EVers are already viewed as
kind of
> odd ducks, and here we are, stumbling along at horse and buggy speed
with
> 20th century technology as our primary means of group communication
while
> the knitters and clog-dancers are flying by in the fast lane of the
internet.
Well put! We are odd ducks, and seem to pride ourselves in it -- perhaps
chalking it up to being "ahead of the curve" or "just knowing better."
Many draw on a rich history of innovation and creation, and some focus
on an almost as-rich history of big businesses squashing that
innovation... sometimes to the point of assumed conspiracy. A thread of
truth runs through that all, that the technology, development,
marketing, or combination thereof have not yet been strong enough to
thrive and overcome the obstacles placed against it (by conspired intent
or accident).
I think all of us are unified in our belief that our hobby is nearing
that threshold. Oddly, some resist that, as well, perhaps fearing
becoming less unique? Loyalty to the mail list may be more than just
familiarity, for some... they may WANT to hold it back. Could it be a
conspiracy, somehow, of big oil? :p
My hope is that one of the fuller-featured forums catches on, and I can
parse this stream of excellent content more easily there. In the
meantime, I'll stay here, because the critical mass is here.
No disrespect intended... except to conspiracy theorists. :p That's OK
-- they already think I'm out to get 'em!
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So here is my EV insurance saga.
Several years ago my car insurance company, State Farm, told me that
they would not insure any more of my electric cars.
Mind you, never had an accident with them. Never any claim with any
EV. They just did not want to insure EV's in Maine.
I searched high and low and eventually got Allstate to write all my
EV's. Sometimes they limit the amount of information
so we do not get the underwriters too riled up, but at least they
will talk to me.
Took out my S10 with the nicads out a couple days ago. Been busy with
other things. Hadn't charged it in a month. Just wanted to see what
it did in the snow. The nicads are very nice in this cold weather.
(-10F tonight in Maine--for all you ____'s in Florida this weekend!)
I was surprised the nicads had not discharged very much.
It will feel really warm tomorrow when it goes up to +18F.
Ran around without any heat. A manly, stupid concept, but never felt
that it was too important.
Waiting for the Curtis 1231 to fail and then I will rig up a
contactor with the big resistor until it comes back.
Dammit, then there will be some heat.
Tom
Hotandcold.tv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Kinda sounds like a hoax to me to...
From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Electric Vehicle bursts into flames in San Francisco - again!
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:26:39 -0800
At first I thought this was a hoax, similar to the stories about hollywood
celebrities whose cars had burst into flames inside their houses.
I still think it's arson. But whatever the case, it's real:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/01/26/BAGGONPRBP14.DTL
Fire closes Warming Hut
Electric car outside Crissy Field cafe bursts into flames
(01-26) 13:25 PST -- An electric vehicle parked outside the Warming Hut at
Crissy Field caught fire early this morning, damaging the popular cafe and
gift shop so severely that it will remain closed for several weeks while
the
National Park Service makes repairs.
Golden Gate Bridge security officers saw a two-story pillar of flame
shortly
after midnight and alerted the Park Service Fire Department, which
extinguished the fire within 30 minutes, said Rich Weideman, a spokesman
for
the Golden Gate National Recreation Area.
Investigators determined the blaze started with an electrical fire in a
nearby Gem electric vehicle, but they do not know what went wrong with the
vehicle, Weideman said. The vehicle was unplugged and parked on the west
side of the Warming Hut, he said.
The fire caused relatively little damage, but the smoke it generated and
the
water used to extinguish it made a mess of the building and its inventory,
Weideman said.
The Warming Hut is among the park's most popular buildings, a place where
tourists and locals alike grab a cup of coffee, a bite to eat and a
souvenir. With the Warming Hut boarded up, visitors are encouraged to visit
the Crissy Cafe not far away at the Crissy Center.
Today's fire was the second time a Gem vehicle has caught fire at the
Golden
Gate National Recreation Area. One of the DaimlerChrysler-made vehicles
caught fire a year ago at Alcatraz Island. That vehicle was plugged in at
the time, prompting GGNRA officials to adopt a policy requiring that
unattended vehicles be left unplugged, Weideman said.
In both cases, the vehicles "burned literally to the frame," and
investigators suspect a problem with the vehicles' batteries or wiring,
Weideman said. Park authorities contacted DaimlerChrysler after last year's
fire and were told the automaker was not aware of any problems, Weideman
said.
Park officials have once again contacted DaimlerChrysler and will be
working
with the company to determine what went wrong. In the meantime, the park
and
the Golden Gate National Park Conservancy, the park's nonprofit fundraising
and outreach arm, are reviewing their policies regarding the use and
storage
of Gem vehicles, Weideman said.
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--- End Message ---
