EV Digest 6350
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Starting out on a EV in the UK
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Starting out on a EV in the UK
by "Simon Chambers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Electric Vehicle bursts into flames in San Francisco - again!
by "Doug McKee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) FW: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) FW: Strange EVDL goings-on
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
by Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
Not very, it shouldn't!)
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Listserv v. BB/forum
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Listserv v. BB/forum
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Strange EVDL goings-on
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) a few configurations
by "sushrut patgaonkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Hi all
by "sushrut patgaonkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: a few configurations
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Sushrut
by "sushrut patgaonkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Starting out on a EV in the UK
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Listserv v. BB/forum
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Hi all
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Starting out on a EV in the UK
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Listserv v. BB/forum
by Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV Insurance
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:48 PM 26/01/07 +0000, Simon wrote:
My main issue at the moment is locating reasonable affordable motors. I see
on evalbum that the Advance DC motor is extensively used in conversions, and
looking at the specs is understandable. Does anyone know of any UK suppliers
of EV motors that are at an affordable price?
Richard Bebbington ia a motor distributor in South Wales, but I don't
believe he (or anyone else in the UK for that matter) will have stock (at
least Murphy will make it none of the size you need). One of the UK EVers
should have more info.
Alternatively, are there any good types of motor that can be used in EV's?
For example I've noticed that the series wound Winch Motors seem very
powerful (however I don't know what their life would be like in continuous
usage) or
The design life of winch motors us typically tens of hours, and their duty
cycle is probably 30 seconds at rating, 5 min to cool down.
even forklift motors?
Yes, many forklift(/towmotor/electric truck) motors are useable, the
difference between a forklift traction motor and a road-going traction
motor are typically as follows:
- Forklift motors often have splined or tapered output shafts that are not
so easy to use, but not impossible.
- Some motors are made to fit a transmission housing (one of my ex-fork
motors has a starter-motor bulge cast into the transmission adaptor) that
means a non-standard adaptor.
- Weight is usually not an issue, so they often have cast iron end plates
instead of aluminium. I made a new end plate for my motor that does double
duty - end plate and transmission adaptor.
- They are optimised for torque instead of speed, so the fields are often
series connection, with fairly high turn count, where on-road motors have
fewer turns and have two paralell paths through the fields (a reasonably
straigh-forward modification to change).
- they are designed for more conservative amperages, so the brushes are
relatively smaller for the size of the motor than many on-road designs, so
you'd try and find a bigger motor (e.g. a 10" motor for a vehicle that
could use an 8" ADC motor)
- Some are totally enclosed, non-ventilated (TENV) use on-road an external
blower should be used. The motor I'm preparing for my truck was 4.5hp but
as big as a 45hp, due to being TENV.
- The grade of brush material may be different.
Haunt your local scrap dealers, make friends, beer is a good way to make
them think of you and ring you up when something turns up. You may be lucky
enough to find a big, old 72V forklift or electric truck that will provide
motor, contactors, cabling, maybe a controller, and all for scrap price. A
Mitsubishi Colt was converted in Western Australia using a 72V fork motor
that would burn rubber in 5th gear, but they couldn't get faster than 50mph
(80km/h). They didn't do their research so changed out the motor for an ADC
that gave them more top speed but they had to use the gears as the torque
was way down. They could have modded their motor or added bypass field
weakening to increase top speed for much less money than the ADC would have
cost them.
Also why aren't 3-phase AC induction motor's (like what are attached to
lathes, mills, conveyor belts, etc) used in EV's? Since these produce large
amounts of reliable torque for long periods.
They are! However, to get a wide speed range and plenty of power relative
to weight, the on-road motors are quite special, and the controllers are as
well. The differences principly are:
- Normal 3-phase 50 or 60Hz, on-road 300Hz+
- Normal motor speed 4-pole 1400RPM (50Hz) on-road 10,000RPM+
- Normal motor has cast aluminium windings on rotor, on-road may have copper
- Normal motor air cooled, on-road motor often water cooled.
Then the inverters:
- Normal motor control: sensorless vector or similar, on-road often encoder
feedback
- Normal speed control-constant speed, on-road constant torque.
- Inverters for on-road are designed for low weight relative to power, and
may be water cooled.
It is possible to rewind and otherwise rebuild a normal induction motor for
on-road use, some inverters are happy to be used on DC (Eletronica Santerno
comes to mind). Programming the inverter to behave in constant torque may
be an issue (so the vehicle throttle becomes a speed reference so you are
in cruise control all the time, set by the accelerator).
By the time you've done all that, you are likely to be better off getting
one of the superbly engineered surplus EV systems that Siemens make, and
comes with a 10 year warranty, unless you have access to rewinding etc at a
"mates rates" price.
Hope this helps
Regards
[Technik] James
(in Australia)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Firstly, thanks for the reply!
Are the AC motors special purpose EV built units? Or are they derived from
industrial units?
Due to their wide spread usage, industrial motors seem very economical
compared to brushed and series wound DC motors. In terms of actual cost, a
brand new 15Hp 3 phase 400v motor in the UK is around $510. Compared to a DC
motor in the US, I've seen the Etek units go for around $600, which can only
just manage 15Hp Peak.
In terms of driving the motors, how complicated is it? I'm aware that you
can get industrial (hideously expensive) inverters that vary the input
frequency between (from the one's I've seen) 0-2KHz to vary the speed.
Surely it's not too complicated to feed 3 sets of sine waves into a motor,
compared to driving a DC motor using PWM?
The only draw back I can see is the high voltage needed to drive the motors
at their rated voltages. What is the effect of lowering the voltage on an AC
inductance motor?
Kind Regards,
Si
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jonathan Jekir
Sent: 27 January 2007 2:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Starting out on a EV in the UK
3-phase AC drive is used in EVs (just look at AC Propulsion or Metric
Mind Engineering) but it is not as common a choice among DIYers due
to the cost premium. If you have the money for an AC system, there
are several advantages, one is torque, another is regenerative
braking, and I believe there are a few others. Also, DC systems in
the 100-160v range that is most common among hobbyists are very
commonly available, while AC drives vary, some are high voltage (240
anywhere up to nearly 400v) and some can be found running as low as 72v.
On 26-Jan-07, at 6:48 PM, Simon Chambers wrote:
> Hi,
>
> After reading a lot of very interesting conversations over the past
> few
> weeks, I have decided to post my first questions!
>
> I'm looking into building (well converting) my first EV car and I
> am doing
> my initial background research. I've noticed that there seems a
> very strong
> EV parts business in America with an equally strong following.
> However in
> the UK there is a distinct lack of places on which to get parts.
>
> My main issue at the moment is locating reasonable affordable
> motors. I see
> on evalbum that the Advance DC motor is extensively used in
> conversions, and
> looking at the specs is understandable. Does anyone know of any UK
> suppliers
> of EV motors that are at an affordable price?
>
> Alternatively, are there any good types of motor that can be used
> in EV's?
> For example I've noticed that the series wound Winch Motors seem very
> powerful (however I don't know what their life would be like in
> continuous
> usage) or even forklift motors?
>
> Also why aren't 3-phase AC induction motor's (like what are
> attached to
> lathes, mills, conveyor belts, etc) used in EV's? Since these
> produce large
> amounts of reliable torque for long periods.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Simon
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its
> simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine
> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>
>
__________ NOD32 2010 (20070126) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com
___________________________________________________________
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease
of use." - PC Magazine
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The DOE hired folks to protest nuclear energy during the 60s and 70s.
The result is that we, the USA, only have nuclear power plants close to
refinery centers.
The big three wouldn't be a bit hesitant to stoop to such tactics to
discredit the EV. Remember the Pinto.
Doug
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For you military types, USAA told me to just keep the receipts for the major
parts and have pictures of them all, attached to the
vehicle. Also no matter who you get insurance from remind them that because of
your limited range you should qualify for Low
Mileage Discount :-) It doesn't EVen take convincing them.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:23 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
>
>
> Allstate
>
> No problem, didn't even want to know/care that it is electric.
>
> respectfully,
> John
>
> The Skunk, 58 HD Servicar conversion
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=751
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerry McIntire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:02 PM
> Subject: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
>
>
> >I know this has been covered, but I've done a couple searches in the
> > archives and haven't found any insurance companies mentioned as
> > writing EV insurance other than The Hartford. Some others people are
> > insured with?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't most boards have the option to send from and forward to your e-mail
client? There are several boards I visit but I mostly
just have it deliver each post to my inbox. On some I can pick the threads I
want to be delivered. Every once in a while I'll
log onto the board to see if there's anything I'm missing by selectively
allowing threads. Otherwise I send and receive just like
the EVDL. I set rules to move each boards e-mail into its own folder. I also
visit the board to check for files or potos that
have been added. Each can have it their own way.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> xx xx wrote:
>
> I think the problem has been how to integrate both so
> there would be postings at both. The mail people
> could still get the mail interface and the BBS people
> could move into the 21'st century and use the BBS. I
> assume this must be possible, I just don't know how to
> do it.
>
> John
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks John, Bob and Sam. I can add Allstate and Progressive to my
list of insurers to get a price from.
I'd like to find something as inexpensive as my Safeco policy. Very
low, but they won't write an EV.
Jerry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Spot price of a pound of copper is at $2.65 right now.
At 3.1g each a pre-1982 copper penny is worth 1.8 cents
Back in October when it was up to $3.50/lb that penny was worth 2.4 cents.
Save your wire and save your pennys :-)
Taking $0.58/lb for the wore isn't worth it. But getting $2+ just might
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Joseph H. Strubhar
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 5:45 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a
> Terminal Get? Not very, it shouldn't!)
>
>
> I'd say you're geting ripped off by the recyclers - I recently got a quote
> of over $2.00 per pound for dirty copper, that is, with the insulation ON.
>
> I'll be selling some shortly - we'll see what price I actually get!
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EVDL post" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:22 PM
> Subject: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get?
> Not very, it shouldn't!)
>
>
> > I am generating some used cable as I am going through my pack,
> > putting new cables in to replace the old ones that were getting
> > hot (which were most all of the cables made at the installation
> > of the second pack in my car some five years ago - apparently
> > defective cable that had some oxidation on the strands - I'll try
> > to post about that some other time). The point of this post is
> > that a fellow EV'er (and I believe he is on the EVDL also)
> > prompted me to think about recycling that cable, when I mentioned
> > I was going to throw the old stuff out. Well, I called my local
> > recycler, Marin Recycling (Marin is the county where I live), and
> > they gave me a price of 58 cents/pound, with the insulation
> > removed from the cable. I doubt it's going to be more than a
> > couple of pounds with the insulation off. Even if it was ten
> > pounds, it would barely be worth my time to slice the insulation
> > off the copper and drive it to the recycling place. There's just
> > not that much of it. Anybody have different numbers/pound?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.11/652 - Release Date: 1/25/2007
> 3:32 PM
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I feel there are 2 big reasons a BB/forum would be very beneficial - even
for dialup users.
1) Information is archived in threads. No searching through hundreds of
archived messages trying to track down small bits of data on a topic. All
related information is in one place and can be easily located with a quick
search. a FAQ section would take care of the endless "I'm new to EVs,
which is better, AC or DC?" posts.
2) A BB/forum reduces the huge amount of bandwidth wasted with short
replies to long posts. IE: a 1 line reply followed by the original 65
lines of text. In a listserv this is almost mandatory. And how many times
have you seen an entire EV digest tacked on to the end of a short post?
The key to a relatively painless switchover is to integrate large chunks
of the EVDL archives (AC vs DC, beginners info, battery info, etc) into
the forum before it goes live. Then the search function will return useful
results even if no one uses the forum. It is definitely a large task to
tackle, but would be well worth it.
here we are, stumbling along at horse and buggy speed with20th century
technology as our primary means of group
communication while the knitters and clog-dancers areflying by in the
fast lane of the internet.
How true! So many people cling to the listserv like it's their life
support! The wheel has been around for quite a while too, but I don't have
granite tires on my EV ;)
"But I use the EVDL because it works great on my blackberry, cellphone,
Commodore64, teletype..." If you're too busy to sit down at a computer (or
laptop!) and scan through a page or two of subjects once a week then
you're probably too busy to sift through all the BS that floats around on
the EVDL anyway.
"You need a better mail client to thread messages, search, sort, etc."
That only works IF I've archived the EVDL for the last 20 years AND don't
receive the EVDL in digest format. And everyone knows web searches of the
EVDL are a hassle (because results are in digest format!)
"The EVDL has been around for 20 years and works just fine." Right. That's
why I get 100 messages/day (150K to 300K of data) covering 5-10 subjects
with maybe 10% new material. The other 90% is copies of original messages,
requests to unsubscribe, and complaints that posts aren't getting through.
"I'm on dialup and pay $100/message to read e-mail." Then you definitely
want a forum! Check out www.spadworld.net for a good example. Over 64,000
posts and 2,000+ members. Everything's organized into broad categories,
the largest of which has less than 600 original topics. The opening page
is 50K without the graphic - equivalent to a single EV digest. Use the
"view posts since last visit" to see updated subjects (another 50K) and
only view topics of interest. If you only want answers to a few quick
questions, ask for e-mail notification when a reply comes in. Then you
don't have to regularly check the forum at all.
[/rant]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I remember someone talking about a BB forum connected to the EV list, you
either post here or there and message appear on both.
Imho this is the best solution as i think we really need to keep EVerybody
happy.
Why not using such wonderful solution ?
I read, each time there is a email list VS a BB war, a BB is more time
consuming than email list, it's a non sense as email list have any filtering
feature.
Such problem is only real for people who want to see ALL posted message.
I'm such though would prefer a BB.
Having more time out of my computer is becoming vital...and reading EV list
IS very time consuming though i love it.
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:19 AM
Subject: RE: Listserv v. BB/forum
> From: Steve Condie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > But time marches on. Pretty much every other interest group in the
> world
> > has a modern, thread oriented forum on line which is user friendly,
> allows
> > immediate posting and simple monitoring, facilitates the sorting of
> posts
> > into coherent threads, searching, etc...
> > It's actually kind of embarrassing. We EVers are already viewed as
> kind of
> > odd ducks, and here we are, stumbling along at horse and buggy speed
> with
> > 20th century technology as our primary means of group communication
> while
> > the knitters and clog-dancers are flying by in the fast lane of the
> internet.
>
> Well put! We are odd ducks, and seem to pride ourselves in it -- perhaps
> chalking it up to being "ahead of the curve" or "just knowing better."
> Many draw on a rich history of innovation and creation, and some focus
> on an almost as-rich history of big businesses squashing that
> innovation... sometimes to the point of assumed conspiracy. A thread of
> truth runs through that all, that the technology, development,
> marketing, or combination thereof have not yet been strong enough to
> thrive and overcome the obstacles placed against it (by conspired intent
> or accident).
>
> I think all of us are unified in our belief that our hobby is nearing
> that threshold. Oddly, some resist that, as well, perhaps fearing
> becoming less unique? Loyalty to the mail list may be more than just
> familiarity, for some... they may WANT to hold it back. Could it be a
> conspiracy, somehow, of big oil? :p
>
> My hope is that one of the fuller-featured forums catches on, and I can
> parse this stream of excellent content more easily there. In the
> meantime, I'll stay here, because the critical mass is here.
>
> No disrespect intended... except to conspiracy theorists. :p That's OK
> -- they already think I'm out to get 'em!
>
> Randii
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
mike you make way too much sense . if people don't like what the evdl is they
can change . or modify what they have in their comp, to fit what THEY WANT ,
that makes too much sense . but the real problem is these people who are
wanting every one else to change don't WANT to change or modifly what they
have they would rather demand every one ELSE to change .
ENOUGH OF THIS !! ACCEPT WHAT IS AND LET THE GUYS WHO HAVE BROUGHT US ALL THIS
FAR TAKE US THE REST OF THE WAY . it is time to dance with the one who brought
you now let it go
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Willmon<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:08 PM
Subject: FW: Strange EVDL goings-on
Don't most boards have the option to send from and forward to your e-mail
client? There are several boards I visit but I mostly
just have it deliver each post to my inbox. On some I can pick the threads I
want to be delivered. Every once in a while I'll
log onto the board to see if there's anything I'm missing by selectively
allowing threads. Otherwise I send and receive just like
the EVDL. I set rules to move each boards e-mail into its own folder. I
also visit the board to check for files or potos that
have been added. Each can have it their own way.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> xx xx wrote:
>
> I think the problem has been how to integrate both so
> there would be postings at both. The mail people
> could still get the mail interface and the BBS people
> could move into the 21'st century and use the BBS. I
> assume this must be possible, I just don't know how to
> do it.
>
> John
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all,
I was thinking last night about some ev configurations
1. A small diesel engine of about 35 hp connected to a ac generator which is
connected directly to two hub motors ,,what would be the likely advantages
and dis advantages of such a system,,will it need two controllers ? will it
need the extra weight of a gearbox to achieve performance of 200 kmph,, the
diesel engine will be tuned for maximum efficiency ,, what configuration of
motors should i start looking for if I want to build such a system
2. does anyone have contacts of where to source ev parts in India ,,
(Ahmedabad , Mumbai)
3. Can such a system deliver on the goals of efficiency and performance
4. what would be the costof such a system ?
5.what is the significance of having a battery pack in the first place ,,
can it be bypassed to prevent the weight penalty associated with batteries
6. has anyone heard of such a system or worked on such a system?
7. where can I find mentors for guiding me thru the process of building the
above said system
8.what would be the specifications of such a system if it is to be used for
a) a sports car
b) a suv
thank you all
Sushrut
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all ,
I am not trying to be cynical here but lead acid batteries are just not good
enough for an ev
they are heavy , dont have energy density , take up lots of space and have
to be replaced after a few miles
from my point of veiw pure electrics just dont have what it takes to be a
good business
unless of course they are li-ion / polymer
but these are not avaliable in India and cost too much to import
plug in hybrids are the way ahead
they somewhat solve the problems of both systems
a. high torque of electric motors for general driving , accelerating and
braking
b. helping IC engines do their best at a fixed rpm and providing electricity
to power the systems
c. such IC engines can be tuned to perform to their highest efficiency
without having to worry about power bands , accelerating and speed
d. any ways the maximum speed in cities is below 60 kmph which is well
within the limits of todays technology
e. the IC engine in this case can run on any thing that burns (e85, butanol,
CNG , Diesel etc)
f. such an IC engine can do away with the problem of having throttle
mechanism in the first place
g. If a company can come up with an engine that can produce 35 hp @ 60 kmpl
then that engine will have the potential to solve current evs problem of
range
h. finally plug in are the only cost effective way ahead currently
regards
Sushrut
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Re questions 1 and 5: an upcoming technology in the recreational marine world
is the use of an efficient variable-speed diesel powerplant driving a DC
generator which powers a motor. This replaces the standard propulsion unit.
In boats this means you can decouple the power "source" from the drive unit and
provide better sound and vibration insulation. Use of common rail,
multi-pulsing injector technology with variable speed means engines are more
efficient and less polluting. Some manufacturers also use batteries so the
diesel doesn't have to be started as often.
I've never heard of such an animal in a road going vehicle though - I suspect
you'd be better off to drive the wheels directly. VW (amongst others) has very
efficient diesel units these days.
----- Original Message ----
From: sushrut patgaonkar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 7:00:59 AM
Subject: a few configurations
Hello all,
I was thinking last night about some ev configurations
1. A small diesel engine of about 35 hp connected to a ac generator which is
connected directly to two hub motors ,,what would be the likely advantages
and dis advantages of such a system,,will it need two controllers ? will it
need the extra weight of a gearbox to achieve performance of 200 kmph,, the
diesel engine will be tuned for maximum efficiency ,, what configuration of
motors should i start looking for if I want to build such a system
2. does anyone have contacts of where to source ev parts in India ,,
(Ahmedabad , Mumbai)
3. Can such a system deliver on the goals of efficiency and performance
4. what would be the costof such a system ?
5.what is the significance of having a battery pack in the first place ,,
can it be bypassed to prevent the weight penalty associated with batteries
6. has anyone heard of such a system or worked on such a system?
7. where can I find mentors for guiding me thru the process of building the
above said system
8.what would be the specifications of such a system if it is to be used for
a) a sports car
b) a suv
thank you all
Sushrut
____________________________________________________________________________________
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
what changes or software i should look for to making my ev with hub motors
turn
does it require some thing to make it turn
how does the power from each battery vary
please clarify
finally are hub motors suitable for ev conversions
where can i find good ac hub motors
regards
Sushrut
On 1/27/07, Anthony Nguyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
A differential is to take power coming from a single engine and split it
into different amounts for each wheel. With hub motors each wheel
automatically gets a different amount of power because they each have
their own engine
Dmitri wrote:
> The motor stops.
> Depends on what kind of stop and go it is! Would be easy on the
> battery if it was light acceleration, but hard on the battery if it
> was hard acceleration.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "sushrut patgaonkar"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 3:24 PM
> Subject: Sushrut
>
>
>> I have two questions
>>
>> 1. What happens to an ev at traffic lights , does the motor stops
taking
>> power or does it keep
>> running ,, how do stop and go conditions affect the life of a battery
>> {li-ion}?
>>
>> 2. there is an ev with 4 flat motors ( hub motors ), how does such a
>> vehicle
>> handle turns without a differential?
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Simon, actually in Europe you have good access to high quality OEM EV
equipment such as Siemens and MES. Contact Victor at www.metricmind.com as
he has a partner office in Europe who can line you up with some nice 3 phase
AC equipment.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Simon Chambers
Sent: January 26, 2007 3:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Starting out on a EV in the UK
Hi,
After reading a lot of very interesting conversations over the past few
weeks, I have decided to post my first questions!
I'm looking into building (well converting) my first EV car and I am doing
my initial background research. I've noticed that there seems a very strong
EV parts business in America with an equally strong following. However in
the UK there is a distinct lack of places on which to get parts.
My main issue at the moment is locating reasonable affordable motors. I see
on evalbum that the Advance DC motor is extensively used in conversions, and
looking at the specs is understandable. Does anyone know of any UK suppliers
of EV motors that are at an affordable price?
Alternatively, are there any good types of motor that can be used in EV's?
For example I've noticed that the series wound Winch Motors seem very
powerful (however I don't know what their life would be like in continuous
usage) or even forklift motors?
Also why aren't 3-phase AC induction motor's (like what are attached to
lathes, mills, conveyor belts, etc) used in EV's? Since these produce large
amounts of reliable torque for long periods.
Kind Regards,
Simon
___________________________________________________________
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and
ease of use." - PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This argument is old and getting tiring... It is now occurring at least
once a month and has been happening for a quite a while now.
You can get threaded EVDL archive at:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
The people who run the list are happy with it the way it is. So are many of
the long standing users of the list. Seems as though it is just the newbies
who complain.
Many people have tried to create web based lists - even to the extent of
converting all the old messages, and it has failed.
+
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------+
+ Until SOMEONE can create a web based interface WITHOUT INTERUPTION to
existing email clients it will not happen. +
+
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------+
So please do not bothering arguing about it any more.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Adrian DeLeon
Sent: January 27, 2007 12:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Listserv v. BB/forum
I feel there are 2 big reasons a BB/forum would be very beneficial - even
for dialup users.
1) Information is archived in threads. No searching through hundreds of
archived messages trying to track down small bits of data on a topic. All
related information is in one place and can be easily located with a quick
search. a FAQ section would take care of the endless "I'm new to EVs, which
is better, AC or DC?" posts.
2) A BB/forum reduces the huge amount of bandwidth wasted with short replies
to long posts. IE: a 1 line reply followed by the original 65 lines of text.
In a listserv this is almost mandatory. And how many times have you seen an
entire EV digest tacked on to the end of a short post?
The key to a relatively painless switchover is to integrate large chunks of
the EVDL archives (AC vs DC, beginners info, battery info, etc) into the
forum before it goes live. Then the search function will return useful
results even if no one uses the forum. It is definitely a large task to
tackle, but would be well worth it.
> here we are, stumbling along at horse and buggy speed with20th century
> technology as our primary means of group communication while the
> knitters and clog-dancers areflying by in the fast lane of the
> internet.
How true! So many people cling to the listserv like it's their life support!
The wheel has been around for quite a while too, but I don't have granite
tires on my EV ;)
"But I use the EVDL because it works great on my blackberry, cellphone,
Commodore64, teletype..." If you're too busy to sit down at a computer (or
laptop!) and scan through a page or two of subjects once a week then you're
probably too busy to sift through all the BS that floats around on the EVDL
anyway.
"You need a better mail client to thread messages, search, sort, etc."
That only works IF I've archived the EVDL for the last 20 years AND don't
receive the EVDL in digest format. And everyone knows web searches of the
EVDL are a hassle (because results are in digest format!)
"The EVDL has been around for 20 years and works just fine." Right. That's
why I get 100 messages/day (150K to 300K of data) covering 5-10 subjects
with maybe 10% new material. The other 90% is copies of original messages,
requests to unsubscribe, and complaints that posts aren't getting through.
"I'm on dialup and pay $100/message to read e-mail." Then you definitely
want a forum! Check out www.spadworld.net for a good example. Over 64,000
posts and 2,000+ members. Everything's organized into broad categories, the
largest of which has less than 600 original topics. The opening page is 50K
without the graphic - equivalent to a single EV digest. Use the "view posts
since last visit" to see updated subjects (another 50K) and only view topics
of interest. If you only want answers to a few quick questions, ask for
e-mail notification when a reply comes in. Then you don't have to regularly
check the forum at all.
[/rant]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I do 90 percent of my daily driving with a solectria force with lead acid
batteries. mike young
----- Original Message -----
From: "sushrut patgaonkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 7:31 AM
Subject: Hi all
Hello all ,
I am not trying to be cynical here but lead acid batteries are just not
good
enough for an ev
they are heavy , dont have energy density , take up lots of space and have
to be replaced after a few miles
from my point of veiw pure electrics just dont have what it takes to be a
good business
unless of course they are li-ion / polymer
but these are not avaliable in India and cost too much to import
plug in hybrids are the way ahead
they somewhat solve the problems of both systems
a. high torque of electric motors for general driving , accelerating and
braking
b. helping IC engines do their best at a fixed rpm and providing
electricity
to power the systems
c. such IC engines can be tuned to perform to their highest efficiency
without having to worry about power bands , accelerating and speed
d. any ways the maximum speed in cities is below 60 kmph which is well
within the limits of todays technology
e. the IC engine in this case can run on any thing that burns (e85,
butanol,
CNG , Diesel etc)
f. such an IC engine can do away with the problem of having throttle
mechanism in the first place
g. If a company can come up with an engine that can produce 35 hp @ 60
kmpl
then that engine will have the potential to solve current evs problem of
range
h. finally plug in are the only cost effective way ahead currently
regards
Sushrut
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
** Reply to message from "Simon Chambers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Sat,
27 Jan 2007 02:48:13 -0000
Here's a fellow in your part of the world. He uses AC motor too.
http://www.evconvert.com/article/peters-solar-van-ii
Dale Curren
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
For those that must have a BB/Forum, do this:
Find an open source Forum package that you like.
Set it up on a stable internet server (remember, this is going to be
used by hundreds of people all over the world, so it needs to be
robust).
Set up a mailbox to receive evdl listserv messages.
Write some code to insert the incoming messages correctly into the
threaded forum.
(You can feed archived evdl posts into the system as a way to test your
categorisation algorithm, and get the archive online as a bonus :-)
Write some code to authenticate forum members to their evdl email
address.
(optional) Write some code to allow new forum registrations to
automatically subscribe to the evdl (so they can post with their real
email)
(optional) Write some code to allow new forum registrations to
automatically subscribe to the evdl with a fake forum email address, so
they can post but don't have their private email splattered all over the
internet.
Write some code to post new forum entries to the evdl, under the name of
the authenticated member.
(important) Write some code to filter out the evdl messages that
originally came from forum posts, so they don't appear twice.
(optional) Write some code to modify forum posts that get sent to the
evdl that contain pictures or attachments, so that the attachments are
changed to plain text http links to the documents within the forum,
allowing evdl members to see your exploded commutator or the pdf of your
circuit diagram.
(important) Recruit some people to help you administer the system,
because there will inevitably be problems, no matter how foolproof you
make it.
Once this is done, there will be a nice, modern forum system that works
seamlessly in parallel with the old system, allowing people to migrate
from one system to the other without any difficulty whatsoever.
None of the tasks listed above are impossible. In fact, many of the
previous evdl replacement projects have already done some of them.
Give it a go - if it works, it will benefit the entire EV community.
Let us know if you need some help - many of us have a wide variety of
skills.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Adrian DeLeon
Sent: Saturday, 27 January 2007 1:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Listserv v. BB/forum
I feel there are 2 big reasons a BB/forum would be very beneficial -
even for dialup users.
1) Information is archived in threads. No searching through hundreds of
archived messages trying to track down small bits of data on a topic.
All related information is in one place and can be easily located with a
quick search. a FAQ section would take care of the endless "I'm new to
EVs, which is better, AC or DC?" posts.
2) A BB/forum reduces the huge amount of bandwidth wasted with short
replies to long posts. IE: a 1 line reply followed by the original 65
lines of text. In a listserv this is almost mandatory. And how many
times have you seen an entire EV digest tacked on to the end of a short
post?
The key to a relatively painless switchover is to integrate large chunks
of the EVDL archives (AC vs DC, beginners info, battery info, etc) into
the forum before it goes live. Then the search function will return
useful results even if no one uses the forum. It is definitely a large
task to tackle, but would be well worth it.
> here we are, stumbling along at horse and buggy speed with20th century
> technology as our primary means of group communication while the
> knitters and clog-dancers areflying by in the fast lane of the
> internet.
How true! So many people cling to the listserv like it's their life
support! The wheel has been around for quite a while too, but I don't
have granite tires on my EV ;)
"But I use the EVDL because it works great on my blackberry, cellphone,
Commodore64, teletype..." If you're too busy to sit down at a computer
(or
laptop!) and scan through a page or two of subjects once a week then
you're probably too busy to sift through all the BS that floats around
on the EVDL anyway.
"You need a better mail client to thread messages, search, sort, etc."
That only works IF I've archived the EVDL for the last 20 years AND
don't receive the EVDL in digest format. And everyone knows web searches
of the EVDL are a hassle (because results are in digest format!)
"The EVDL has been around for 20 years and works just fine." Right.
That's why I get 100 messages/day (150K to 300K of data) covering 5-10
subjects with maybe 10% new material. The other 90% is copies of
original messages, requests to unsubscribe, and complaints that posts
aren't getting through.
"I'm on dialup and pay $100/message to read e-mail." Then you definitely
want a forum! Check out www.spadworld.net for a good example. Over
64,000 posts and 2,000+ members. Everything's organized into broad
categories, the largest of which has less than 600 original topics. The
opening page is 50K without the graphic - equivalent to a single EV
digest. Use the "view posts since last visit" to see updated subjects
(another 50K) and only view topics of interest. If you only want answers
to a few quick questions, ask for e-mail notification when a reply comes
in. Then you don't have to regularly check the forum at all.
[/rant]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom:
I live in Maine also and called Hanover to ask if they would insure my EV
conversion before I dove-in and they said they would. I'd like to see the S10
setup sometime. Last time I stopped at the shop you were out. -5F at our
house this a.m. (Brooklin).
----- Original Message ----
From: Tom Gocze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 8:30:36 PM
Subject: Re: EV Insurance
So here is my EV insurance saga.
Several years ago my car insurance company, State Farm, told me that
they would not insure any more of my electric cars.
Mind you, never had an accident with them. Never any claim with any
EV. They just did not want to insure EV's in Maine.
I searched high and low and eventually got Allstate to write all my
EV's. Sometimes they limit the amount of information
so we do not get the underwriters too riled up, but at least they
will talk to me.
Took out my S10 with the nicads out a couple days ago. Been busy with
other things. Hadn't charged it in a month. Just wanted to see what
it did in the snow. The nicads are very nice in this cold weather.
(-10F tonight in Maine--for all you ____'s in Florida this weekend!)
I was surprised the nicads had not discharged very much.
It will feel really warm tomorrow when it goes up to +18F.
Ran around without any heat. A manly, stupid concept, but never felt
that it was too important.
Waiting for the Curtis 1231 to fail and then I will rig up a
contactor with the big resistor until it comes back.
Dammit, then there will be some heat.
Tom
Hotandcold.tv
____________________________________________________________________________________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
--- End Message ---
