EV Digest 6352
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: efficient heating
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Electric Vehicle bursts into flames - EVLN(GEM nEV besmirches EV's
reputation)
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Link 10 Question
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Electric Vehicle bursts into flames - EVLN(GEM nEV besmirches EV's
reputation)
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Listserv v. BB/forum
by xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Listserv v. BB/forum
by xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: [Evtech] "open source" e-meter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Hi all
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Listserv v. BB/forum
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Seattle EVA Feb 13 Meeting - Change of Venue
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Voting is not enough
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Plug-in Partners petition
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Listserv v. BB/forum
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Electric Vehicle bursts into flames in San Francisco - again!
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Link 10 Question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Electric Vehicle bursts into flames in San Francisco - again!
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: repair of controller, Re: Curtis 1221R regen controller wirin
g diagram
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a Terminal
Get? Not very, it shouldn't!)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Voltage spikes.
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Jan 2007 at 8:59, Dmitri wrote:
> Additional heat provided by watercooled motor/inverter."
> Hey, I thought you guys just said there isn't much heat from the water??
IIRC, the GM EV1 used the small amount of waste heat from the motor and
inverter as the input to a heat pump. I'm pretty sure it had resistive heat
as a supplement.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger offered:
> It is not at all clear that this is a GEM issue, and it is certainly not
> the case that GEMs are the only EVs that burst into flames (it wasn't
> that long ago that a California EVDL member's 914 loaded with Optima YTs
> burst into flames despite also not being plugged in at the time).
And at the risk of discussing EV-flambes while driving and racing, at the
drags just this last year at PIR three separate EVs popped batteries within
a couple hours of each other, one of the cars catching fire, and without
fire extinguisher, would've burnt up had there not been alert track crew to
help put it out.
It will be interesting to hear what the root cause of the SF GEM incident
turns out to be.
-MT, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just installed my repaired Link 10 (E-Meter) and I found a setting
I am not familiar with, F18. My manual is from 1999 and only shows
up to F18 on the settings. What is F18? I checked the website and
Xantrex no longer shows the manual as a download.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, Jan 27, 2007 at 11:16:42AM -0800, Myles Twete wrote:
<..snip..>
> ... at the drags just this last year at PIR three separate EVs popped
> batteries within a couple hours of each other, one of the cars catching fire
<..snip..>
How does this happen?!
A PbA battery can just burst into flames when not under charge or discharge?
That seems crazy.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [rant]
> Great, go ahead and start a BBS and convert all of
> the old archieves over
> and then invite everyone to join.
I see no need to convert anything, just post one link
to the yahoo archives.
I have no idea how to do any of this, I just thought
it must be possible to create a parallel BBS that
mirrors the existing list so everyone is happy.
Creating a new BBS that's not tied into the existing
list doesn't work because the older people with
knowledge don't want to use the new BBS so all you get
is a bunch of us newbies talking in circles and then
no one uses the new forum. I've checked out some of
the previous attempts at a EV BBS and that's what
seems to happen.
I guess eventually as EV's become more popular there
will be enough people who want a BBS to give it
critical mass.
John
____________________________________________________________________________________
Have a burning question?
Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This argument is old and getting tiring... It is
> now occurring at least
> once a month and has been happening for a quite a
> while now.
That's because there is growing interest in the
subject. It will probably keep occurring until
someone creates a successful EV BBS. Or it could
just be deemed an inappropriate topic by the list
powers that be and banned for discussion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------+
> + Until SOMEONE can create a web based interface
> WITHOUT INTERUPTION to
> existing email clients it will not happen. +
> +
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------+
>
That's exactly what some of us are proposing. I
assumed it was possible, though I have no knowledge of
how to do it. If it's not, then it's not, end of
story.
John
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
If I read his email right, [Otmar] is willing to give his Hairball 2
internal code to somebody he TRUSTS to develop it. The hairball
already has a place for a MAX1660 chip. This chip will accurately
monitor a battery pack's charge and discharge current flow.
The MAX1660 is not nearly good enough for an E-meter type of gauge. It
is built for measuring small currents over a fairly narrow range (like a
laptop computer). It may only draw a few amps max, and doesn't need to
measure currents less than 1% of this. The current won't go lower unless
the computer is completely off. They can use a fairly high resistance
shunt with a larger voltage drop because heat won't be a problem.
At one extreme, the Zilla can discharge at battery currents in excess of
1000 amps. At the other extreme, your DC/DC could be powering nothing
but a dome light and only drawing 0.1 amps. That's a 10,000 to 1 range.
Double this if you want to handle high charge rates and regenerative
braking currents.
On the high current end, you need an exceptionally low resistance shunt
or the power dissipation in the shunt becomes excessive. But this low
resistance produces too small of a signal at low currents for simple
circuits like the MAX1660 use.
You can't ignore or make errors measuring low currents either, or your
amphour counts will keep drifting off farther and farther from reality.
The MAX1660 can work in the Zilla if it only needs to keep track of
*controller* current. This current is always high (many amps) or off.
You can use a relatively inaccurate current sensor, like a hall effect
device, because it doesn't need to work at low current enough time to
matter.
An automaker could design a system with separate amphour counters for
each class of device (controller, charger, heater, DC/DC,
instrumentation, etc.) and then use a central controller to combine all
these signals. It's probably cheaper if you are making millions of them;
but much more complicated and expensive for small home-built EVs.
Does one of our wonder programmers want to rise to the ocassion? I would
suggest that you contact him off list, and don't be suprised if it takes a week
or 2 for him to answer, he is pretty busy.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
sushrut patgaonkar wrote:
lead acid batteries are just not good enough for an ev
They aren't if you build EVs just like ICEs. A regular ICE is so heavy
and inefficient that it takes an unreasonable amount of lead-acid
batteries to get acceptable performance.
But lead-acid works quite well in vehicles designed as EVs from scratch.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1/27/07, Adrian DeLeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I feel there are 2 big reasons a BB/forum would be very beneficial - even
for dialup users.
1) Information is archived in threads.
So use Gmail to receive and view the list (in single message mode),
and you will have a proper threaded view.
2) A BB/forum reduces the huge amount of bandwidth wasted with short
replies to long posts.
If you use Gmail, repeated quote text is hidden, so you don't have to
read it. Since it's web based, you aren't downloading it anyway.
"You need a better mail client to thread messages, search, sort, etc."
That only works IF I've archived the EVDL for the last 20 years AND don't
receive the EVDL in digest format. And everyone knows web searches of the
EVDL are a hassle (because results are in digest format!)
Searching your own archive via Gmail is *far* more effective and fast
than any web based forum I've used. Search facilities on PHPbb for
example, seem to be about 10 years out of date.
"The EVDL has been around for 20 years and works just fine." Right. That's
why I get 100 messages/day (150K to 300K of data) covering 5-10 subjects
with maybe 10% new material.
Like this thread in fact. Must be about the 100th time I've heard it.
And yet, this is nothing to do with the medium. You will always get
clueless newbies signing up and asking random questions off the top of
their head, often more so in a forum where there is no need to sign
up, no need to engage brain before sending a message.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
February 13th 2007 Meeting CHANAGE OF VENUE
This is IMPORTANT...........................
The February 13th Meeting will NOT BE at Chuck's house.
We have been INVITED to Pacific Power Batteries
3729 Broadway in down town Everett.
Same time 7 pm Hosted by PPB's CEO Steve Ahmann..
He has good connections with the Community College folks up north, and
he has invited many of them to attend our meeting and for all of us to
get to know each other. Sugest we do as much car pooling as possible.
See you all there...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The poorly designed voting poll may be discounted by GM.
A petition similar to the plug-in hybrid petition might carry
a lot more weight.
John in Sylmar, CA
PV EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They (safeco) did mine! I went through an independent agent. Liability only,
however.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:04:45 AM
Subject: Re: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
Thanks John, Bob and Sam. I can add Allstate and Progressive to my
list of insurers to get a price from.
I'd like to find something as inexpensive as my Safeco policy. Very
low, but they won't write an EV.
Jerry
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss an email again!
Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://pluginpartners.com/whatYouCanDo/onlinePetition.cfm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 27 Jan 2007 at 12:16, xx xx wrote:
> Or it could
> just be deemed an inappropriate topic by the list
> powers that be and banned for discussion.
Why would we do that? Maybe if it caused a flame war or dominated the
discussion, but I doubt that either is likely.
I think it's a valid topic. I also that this thread has been pretty well
beaten into the ground. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > Today's fire was the second time a Gem vehicle has caught fire at the
> > Golden Gate National Recreation Area. One of the DaimlerChrysler-made
> > vehicles
> > caught fire a year ago at Alcatraz Island.
Seems a little suspicious that both fires happened in the same general area.
Somebody working for
the CA park service have a little too much stock in car and oil companies?
Hmmmmmm ;^)
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
F18 when ON, allows to display the AH in 1 amp-hour capacity increments for
small batteries of 2 to 40 amp-hour and 2 amp-hour capacity for batteries of
2 to 200 amp-hour.
If F18 is OFF (the DEFAULT setting), the meter operates as described
elsewhere in the manual.
This is initially use when you input your ampere-hour capacity of your
battery. If you go to the section on Setting Battery Capacity, and if you
want to increments in smaller units as what is listed there, so you can
install the correct battery ampere-hour.
The first time I use it, I overshoot the settings and had to advance the
ampere-hour to 1980 ampere hour before it resets to zero. I leave F18 in
Off, so the AH increments 20 ampere-hour at a time.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:39 PM
Subject: Link 10 Question
> I just installed my repaired Link 10 (E-Meter) and I found a setting
> I am not familiar with, F18. My manual is from 1999 and only shows
> up to F18 on the settings. What is F18? I checked the website and
> Xantrex no longer shows the manual as a download.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
> In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
> position. (Horace)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone should check the receptacle circuit that the EV plugs into. I have
found in some cases, that if the neutral feeding the receptacle is open or
highly resistance, and if the ground in the cable or EV is cross connected,
the circuit may have found another path through chassis ground.
I had a electrical worker at one time, reposition a ground wire off a
grounding electrode, and the minute he disconnect it, there was a large
spark between the ground wire and electrode.
This means, that the neutral connection was highly resistance. We found it
was in the power company transformer connection where the neutral wire was
oxidized at the terminal.
You have to test this circuit under load, to see how much voltage drop there
is. At no load, the voltage may look normal.
Of course if they fix it, they may not tell anybody about it.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: Electric Vehicle bursts into flames in San Francisco - again!
>
> > > Today's fire was the second time a Gem vehicle has caught fire at the
> > > Golden Gate National Recreation Area. One of the DaimlerChrysler-made
> > > vehicles
> > > caught fire a year ago at Alcatraz Island.
>
> Seems a little suspicious that both fires happened in the same general
> area. Somebody working for
> the CA park service have a little too much stock in car and oil companies?
> Hmmmmmm ;^)
>
> Dave Cover
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:08 AM 1/25/2007, David Roden wrote:
On 24 Jan 2007 at 13:55, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> I don't consider a 700lb payload capacity to even BE a truck. More
> of a car with a big trunk.
Speaking of such matters, have you considered a car or small truck pulling a
largeish trailer? When you weren't hauling lumber, you could put batteries
in the trailer for more range. Seriously.
I sat back and thought about this for a while. It has definite advantages.
Then I went through the list of places I've gone to pick up stuff
with my truck in the last couple years.
Won't work. I've been to several places with long driveways where I
had to back the truck out since the only turnaround was where their
car was parked. I've crossed the ferry several times, a trailer adds
$70 to the roundtrip cost. Most of my loads at the lumber yard are
down dead-end lumber aisles.
So no, a trailer would be a royal PITA.
Looking at the 2003 S10 specs (i.e. small truck.)
Other than being generally uncomfortable for me (i'm not small), I
have some problems with the bed.
6' long, and only 40" between wheel wells. If I put a rack in the
bed, I could get 55" between the sides, which would make it wide
enough for plywood. Tailgate would have to be down.
This does make 12' and 16' lumber a lot more difficult though. I'd
probably have to put a lumber rack on it.
Curb weight is 3200 lbs. Payload capacity is 1400 lbs. So no way to
put a 240V pack of GC batteries in it.
A 120V pack weighs 1200 lbs - and brings the truck to probably
4400lbs. Half the weight of the F250, and half the battery
pack. The lower voltage makes things more difficult as well.
So, it would need to have at least a 1000 lbs payload capacity
added. This would likely result in a vehicle that is over it's original GVWR.
Using a F250, I can put a 240V GC pack, and still have 1000 lbs (or a
bit more) payload capacity with no mods, and not going over GVWR.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My first car is an EV and gets over 95% of my driving.
After searching for an 8 or 12 passenger new or used van for 3 months I
almost gave up.
I tried Enterprise Used Car sales on the internet.
They had eight 15 passenger 2001 vans! They were a year old, from car
pools,
with about 20,000 miles on them. When I took out the 3 rear seats I can
carry
a full 4x8 foot sheet of plywood. I can even get a couple 16 foot 2x4s
in, and more
if I removed the passenger seat. More room than a pick-up. My load is
enclosed and secure.
I have never thought about converting it, but they are 1 ton rating.
It was so successful my son bought one. Anyone need some extra seats?
John in Sylmar, CA
PV EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:41 PM 1/27/2007, JS wrote:
My first car is an EV and gets over 95% of my driving. After
searching for an 8 or 12 passenger new or used van for 3 months I
almost gave up.
I tried Enterprise Used Car sales on the internet.
They had eight 15 passenger 2001 vans! They were a year old, from car pools,
with about 20,000 miles on them. When I took out the 3 rear seats I can carry
Your point is?
I have an EV (a Sparrow). I have a car for long trips. I have a
Pickup truck for big loads.
I'd LIKE to have a Electric Pickup truck.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think JS tries to suggest using an (electric) van, because
it does what you describe that you need.
Of course, if you haul dirty loads, then a van does not work
as good as a truck where you can rinse out the bed easily.
But seeing that trucks are generally limited to 7' bed if you
have the longbed version and more like 5' when you like more cab
the suggestion of a van is a very good one.
I use my truck to transport over 200 servings of food in
chafer pans once every week.
When the gravy is a little soupy, this spills easily, but
I rather have it spill in my truck bed than in someone's trunk
or van.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 3:53 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
At 03:41 PM 1/27/2007, JS wrote:
>My first car is an EV and gets over 95% of my driving. After
>searching for an 8 or 12 passenger new or used van for 3 months I
>almost gave up.
>
>I tried Enterprise Used Car sales on the internet.
>They had eight 15 passenger 2001 vans! They were a year old, from car
pools,
>with about 20,000 miles on them. When I took out the 3 rear seats I can
carry
Your point is?
I have an EV (a Sparrow). I have a car for long trips. I have a
Pickup truck for big loads.
I'd LIKE to have a Electric Pickup truck.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug,
What if a brush started to fail (either stuck in its holder,
so not touching the comm with enough force to hold it down, or
worn down to the end stop?
If you had a part in the controller that was already "weak"
and the brush lost contact with the comm, even though you
were driving it lightly - it could still create a voltage
spike with either too high a peak or too steep a slope for
the part to handle, causing it to fail and blow, which caused
the avalanche stopped by the fuse blowing.
If you had rough behavior when starting and eventually no
motor while the controller is giving full motor voltage, that
even more points to failed brush(es).
Opening the motor will tell.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Doug Hartley
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 5:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: repair of controller, Re: Curtis 1221R regen controller
wiring diagram
Hi Cor,
You did not say if the fuse was in the motor or battery circuit,
> though I assume the battery part.
That is right, in series with battery negative, the original factory item in
an orange aluminum electrical box with lots of other small fuses and
terminal blocks for 230VAC.
> The fuse likely failed when a component in the controller
> failed and caused a short. Apparently the failed component(s)
> blew up while also the fuse blew, this could cause more
It seems so, and the fuse blew in the same time as many MOSFETS and diodes
took to short and blow open - how well timed and behaved of them all!
What I don't understand is the reason and mechanism for this failure, at a
time of low stress. I would think that if one MOSFET failed shorted, it
would just carry too much current temporarily taking some load off the
others and after it opened the output current would be reduced by a
fraction. I suspect then that the problem might have started in a diode
and spread from there until the fuse blew. After, when the fuse was
replaced, there was no longer a contagion/avalanche of spikes and the
controller operated "normally" (considering the lesser numper of power parts
still alive and on duty).
There might be some other factor at work, considering the absence of
operating conditions stress. Pehaps a momentary ground fault in the motor
at the same time as a ground fault on the pack wiring, (like at the current
shunt, which I saw for a short while a year ago and it went away when I
moved one cable - the shunt was too inaccessible underneath with the battery
box on top, for a good look at this until the next major work.) A few
months after the controller problem, in early September, the motor quit
after it had been feeling somewhat "rough" and "uneven" (especially in
reverse) when starting moving. It drove fine to the destination, then no
reaction when it was time to drive back home. I tried turning the motor by
moving the car a little and there was still no current draw or movement when
pressing on the pedal. A test with a lamp load showed that the (84V 1221R)
controller was working normally, so I had the car flat-bedded home. I
pushed it in the garage later, for storage for the winter, having no time to
look at it before. I will remove the batteries, battery box and then motor
in the spring when I can get at it when the electric snow blower and other
stuff has been removed out of the way for the season. I am curious about
what the motor looks like and what went wrong (only about 16,000 KM, 10,000
miles, but maybe regen was tough on the brushes) but I have had to supress
my curiosity until a better time, when the PHEV development and winter are
both closer to being finished. Then I can address all issues I can think of
while things are apart and accessible.
Thanks for your recommendation about changing all MOSFETs and diodes, it
sounds wise.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: RE: repair of controller, Re: Curtis 1221R regen controller wiring
diagram
> Doug,
>
> You did not say if the fuse was in the motor or battery circuit,
> though I assume the battery part.
> The fuse likely failed when a component in the controller
> failed and caused a short. Apparently the failed component(s)
> blew up while also the fuse blew, this could cause more
> components to fail due to possible voltage spike.
> I recommend to replace ALL mosfets and diodes in the power stage.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chuck,
I do not have a use for them at this time, but if I am going
to do a conversion, I rather have some cable lying around
that I can re-use than buying new at that time.
To re-use it, I will likely cut the insulation from the end
where the lug goes, use sand-paper to expose raw copper in
all strands, dip it in NoAlOx to avoid further trouble and
crimp a lug on, then measure resistance to see if it is in
an acceptable range. I don't know how thick the strands are,
if they are really thin then it may be a problem to get it
to work this way and I will need to search for a way to
improve contact or sort out the cables that are still
usable. With this price it is hard to go wrong.
Yes, I infrequently visit the San Jose and Palo Alto EAA
meetings, I am in good contact with several members that
do visit frequently, for example Ron Freund needs to there
every meeting because he has the keys to the HP building.
Let me know how many cable you got and it is OK if you find
someone else that needs it - I have no use for it now, just
thought it to be a waste to trash it, rather have it in stock.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Chuck Hursch
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 2:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a
Terminal Get? Not very, it shouldn't!)
Cor,
The more I started thinking about it, yep, the more it seemed a
shame to throw it out, since copper and other natural resources
are coming more and more into demand, to the point of people
stealing copper wiring (I think one or two of the EV chargers out
there may have met their demise this way, according to what I
remember reading on the evchargernews.com postings). Heck, maybe
I had better be worried about my EV for a different reason, and
that is those two long 2/0 copper cables between the front and
rear packs - that is a substantial amount of copper to steal.
(Just kidding...) Fortunately, those long guys are from the
original VoltsRabbit kit, and they seem just fine.
Anyways, Cor, you go to any of the EAA meetings on the Peninsula,
or even in San Jose? I get down there once in awhile, so I could
bring the cabling with me. I'll weigh it with the insulation on
once I'm done recabling the battery interconnects, and see just
what I have with a rough subtraction for the insulation. What
would you do with the copper to salvage it? These are like 7" to
10" pieces with the lugs cut off. Crimping down on oxidized
strands don't work, so you'll have to copper creme them or
something, frizzing out all the strands.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:10 PM
Subject: RE: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a
Terminal Get? Not very, it shouldn't!)
> Chuck,
>
> Many EV'ers around here (I am in Santa Clara county, south
> of SF Bay) and I think that you cable is salvageable with
> some manual rework, so don't thrash it just yet.
> If you find no better offers, then I will be happy to give
> you double what you already were offered and pay for shipping
> if I don't travel up north soon, I also have a colleage in
> Petaluma, so he may be able to pick those cables up.
>
> Others in SF may have interest in the cables as well.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private:
http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life:
www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Chuck Hursch
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:23 PM
> To: EVDL post
> Subject: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a
Terminal
> Get? Not very, it shouldn't!)
>
>
> I am generating some used cable as I am going through my pack,
> putting new cables in to replace the old ones that were getting
> hot (which were most all of the cables made at the installation
> of the second pack in my car some five years ago - apparently
> defective cable that had some oxidation on the strands - I'll
try
> to post about that some other time). The point of this post is
> that a fellow EV'er (and I believe he is on the EVDL also)
> prompted me to think about recycling that cable, when I
mentioned
> I was going to throw the old stuff out. Well, I called my
local
> recycler, Marin Recycling (Marin is the county where I live),
and
> they gave me a price of 58 cents/pound, with the insulation
> removed from the cable. I doubt it's going to be more than a
> couple of pounds with the insulation off. Even if it was ten
> pounds, it would barely be worth my time to slice the
insulation
> off the copper and drive it to the recycling place. There's
just
> not that much of it. Anybody have different numbers/pound?
>
> Thanks,
> Chuck
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry,
Which type of insurance?
For liability only most companies don't really care that it is an EV,
because they don't need to pay you if you crash it, only that where
you crashed into.
I never had a problem with the local Farmers agent.
Before going to him, I tried to get car insurance with several other
companies, but they quoted outrageous rates, because I was less than
half a year in the US and just got my CA drivers license.
Farmers gave me a good policy and rate and even honoured the many
years of accident-free driving that I could show on a cancellation
notice from my Dutch insurance policy.
Since the first car was a Hybrid, I got an extra reduction, together
with the reductions for multiple cars once I added the EV and more
reduction when I added renters insurance.
I now pay about $29 per month for the Prius and $22 for the EV, for
100/300/100 coverage as the minimum level is not going to cut it
in Silicon Valley.
I told the agent all about my Prius (it is a rebuilt Salvage) and the
EV (US Electricar S10 pickup) but the EV still shows up as 4-cyl
because that is what the VIN tells the insurance company that it is.
Since I have liability only, there was no reason to get that fixed.
But I have the idea that you are looking to insure the value of your
EV, right?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jerry McIntire
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Insurance companies writing EV policies?
I know this has been covered, but I've done a couple searches in the
archives and haven't found any insurance companies mentioned as
writing EV insurance other than The Hartford. Some others people are
insured with?
Thanks,
Jerry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow!
I am sorry to hear her terrifying experience and loss,
luckily the utility company paid for repair/replacement,
but I do not think that you can design the EV charging
to isolate against this kind of happenings, it sounded
like the 12kV "middle voltage" shorted to their service.
It does illustrate that grid power is not always a neat
120V sine wave.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of JS
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Voltage spikes.
My daughter just faced a big one. The year old transformer supplying
grid power to their hours failed,
putting high voltage into their house. The convenience outlets arced
over, leaving smoke on their walls.
Everything plugged in burned out. Company paid.
John in Sylmar, CA
PV EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 04:07 PM 1/27/2007, Cor van de Water wrote:
I think JS tries to suggest using an (electric) van, because
it does what you describe that you need.
It's just a truck with a roof. Same weight problems (actually, the
van is heavier), and not as easy to pack batteries into.
But seeing that trucks are generally limited to 7' bed if you
have the longbed version and more like 5' when you like more cab
the suggestion of a van is a very good one.
???? What kind of tiny trucks are you working with? My pickup has
an 8' bed that is about 50" between wheel wells.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:09 PM 27/01/07 -0800, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
<snip>
Looking at the 2003 S10 specs (i.e. small truck.)
Other than being generally uncomfortable for me (i'm not small), I have
some problems with the bed.
6' long, and only 40" between wheel wells. If I put a rack in the bed, I
could get 55" between the sides, which would make it wide enough for
plywood. Tailgate would have to be down.
This does make 12' and 16' lumber a lot more difficult though. I'd
probably have to put a lumber rack on it.
Curb weight is 3200 lbs. Payload capacity is 1400 lbs. So no way to put a
240V pack of GC batteries in it.
A 120V pack weighs 1200 lbs - and brings the truck to probably 4400lbs.
Half the weight of the F250, and half the battery pack. The lower voltage
makes things more difficult as well.
So, it would need to have at least a 1000 lbs payload capacity added. This
would likely result in a vehicle that is over it's original GVWR.
Using a F250, I can put a 240V GC pack, and still have 1000 lbs (or a bit
more) payload capacity with no mods, and not going over GVWR.
G'day John, and All
John, what is the availability of Japanese cab-forward trucks over there?
I've been driving a Toyota Dyna for over ten years now, for many of those
years it was my only vehicle. Mine is a 4 tonne (3900kg) laden mass
vehicle, being a dual cab (seats six) it is a bit heavy at 2200kg unladen.
Highway speed of mine may be an issue for where you are, able to cruise
10km/h over the open-road speed limit here is risking a speeding fine, but
as I understand it that speed in the USA is asking to be rear-ended. Other
similar trucks are capable of higher speeds, and I'd suspect that they'd be
more common/popular than the version that I drive (3 litre 4 cyl diesel).
My truck has a tray that is about 5'6" wide and 6'6" long, but the single
cab versions run trays about 10' long. Load capacity on the single cab
versions is about 2400kg (5280lb), so they'd do what you need with plenty
of load capacity left. Wether the overall performance of an F250 would be
better than a cab-forward truck would depend (I guess) a lot on the
aerodynamic capability - My truck probably has only 3/4 of the frontal area
of an F250, but may have a significantly higher Cd - I've never looked for
a Cd figure for it. IIRC Canadian EV convert similar trucks.
I've often thought of making my truck an EV, since it can carry plenty of
battery weight, but the reality is that it gets a high number of 500km+
trips, so that is not going to happen with this truck.
Hope this helps.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
