EV Digest 6353
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV insurance
by Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: I Need You to Blitz GM Like Never Before, More Comments
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Insurance companies...
by Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: repair of controller, Re: Curtis 1221R regen controller wiring diagram
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) We Have Kurt Kammerer's EV1, And We Like It!
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: where to start?
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a Terminal Get? Not
very, it shouldn't!)
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Freedom Ev update and BBB
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: where to start?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Electric Vehicle bursts into flames in San Francisco - again!
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: We Have Kurt Kammerer's EV1, And We Like It!
by "Chelsea Sexton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Electric Vehicle bursts into flames - EVLN(GEM nEV besmirches EV's
reputation)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: I Need You to Blitz GM Like Never Before, More Comments.
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Monowheels
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: We Have Kurt Kammerer's EV1, And We Like It!
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: LED, HID, and other conservative lights? (efficient heating)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Mike, Myles, Peter and Tom-- and anyone else I missed. I'll
add Progressive to the list.
Jerry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chelsea's been on the ground floor with these folks so she speaks
from experience.
I don't think it will hurt to fill in the survey. No matter what GM's
reasons are, numbers don't lie and if they see over 120,000 people
signing in a survey to want the Volt that not only says something to
GM it says something to the other manufacturers that people want EVs
and plug-in hybrids.
The auto manufacturers are putting their foot in the water with alt
fuel vehicles without really jumping in yet. They are still testing
the waters. If we tell them "Come on in the water's fine" by signing
a survey with thousands of signatures it has to say something and
they have to pay attention.
As far as the Volt, I'm not too keen on the styling. It looks like
they are going after the Chrysler 300 - Dodge Magnum and Charger look
with the chopped top appearance, taller body, aggressive grill and
big tires. I guess that is the look now days and works well for
Chrysler. Maybe Chelsea has some insight into the design.
But the fact they are doing something is interesting. I hope it's
not, "Look over there technology" and they really intend to follow
through with it.
I still miss the EV-1 greatly and haven't given the Volt much serious
thought because GM already had a great EV, but as Chelsea mentions we
shouldn't look back.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
On Jan 27, 2007, at 2:19 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Chelsea Sexton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: January 27, 2007 2:04:31 PM EST
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: I Need You to Blitz GM Like Never Before, More Comments.
OK, gotta jump in to this one...
Re: whether it's useful to tell GM that we want to buy the Volt...I
guess my question would be, why wouldn't you? Even if you believe
GM will never build it, it is crucial that we as consumers continue
to demonstrate demand. If you don't, and GM doesn't build this car,
you've handed them a reason why. If you do, and they still don't
build it, it calls them out- let's face it, demand for the EV1
would have been a lot harder to prove without the 5,000 person
waiting list. The truth is that there is and always was demand for
plug-in cars- but we've nothing to gain by not getting that truth
out there at every opportinity.
I'm not at all naive in this, of course, especially when it comes
to GM- what happened with the EV1 is as personal to me as anyone.
But being encouraged by the Volt announcement is not the same as
letting them off the hook for EV1- indeed, many of the people whom
I feel did the most damage to the EV1 program are no longer there
anyhow, and I personally think it's more productive at this point
to move forward than look back. Bob and I were in Detroit with
Chris Paine for the Volt announcement, and between that and other
meetings, I've have had many hours of recent conversation with both
the Volt designers and engineers as well as the execs and PR folks.
A lot can happen between concept car and showroom, and ultimately,
I'm going to judge them on what they do, not what they say. But all
pr spin aside, there is a level of commitment and sincerity in the
individuals involved that I've not seen in years- and I know for
certain that we've collectively played a part in the fact that
they're even pursuing this direction again; not only do I hope they
follow through, I think it's crucial for the future of the company.
Do I wish they'd never taken the detour? Of course...but this is
exactly what we've been working for, and if we can't allow the
slightest optimism, I have to wonder why we're bothering?
The reality is that not one of the car companies behaved honorably
with respect to their EV programs. But I also believe that while
they each have a lot of ground to make up, none of them are beyond
redemption. To the extent that any of them are wanting to take a
step in a better direction, I think it's important to allow them to
take it (or not) before we judge.
chelsea
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: I Need You to Blitz GM Like Never Before, More Comments.
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:10:09 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Martin K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: I Need You to Blitz GM Like Never Before
>
> Martin:
>
> You are about to fall into GM's public relations trap. I am sure
that some
> guy in tie and suit is giggling about how his sting got GM some
good
> headlines. GM will never built the 'Volt' - at least not as long
as they
> can sell their cheapo gas guzzlers. They are not serious, never
have been.
>
> Michaela
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks chip, Kip, and David! More companies to call...
I'll let you know which one has the best rate for me.
Jerry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>>But seeing that trucks are generally limited to 7' bed if you
>>have the longbed version and more like 5' when you like more cab
>>the suggestion of a van is a very good one.
>
> ???? What kind of tiny trucks are you working with? My pickup has
> an 8' bed that is about 50" between wheel wells.
Indeed, the bed on my short bed truck is almost 7ft long.
John, the point you are missing is that a compact truck will get better
range with a 1200 lb battery back than one of these behemoths will with a
2400 lb pack.
Porbably have more payload capacity too.
The base model F250 regular cab LB has 3100 lbs of payload.
The electric motors, controllers, charger, cables, battery racks, etc. are
going to weigh almost as much as the ICE equipment you remove. I'm not
exactly sure how much this V8 weighs, but similar engines (with
accessories) weigh about 500 lbs give or take.
So, assume we end up with an extra 100 lbs of Payload (before batteries)
you'll end up with /maybe/ 800 lbs of payload.
Start with a mid 90's Toyota pickup and 1/2 the batteries and you'll end
up with about the same usable payload, and MUCH lower conversion costs.
Personally, I'd go this route and put up with the rare hassle using a
trailer when the cargo both exceeds the capacity of the small truck AND is
inconvient for the trailer.
However, I'm getting the impression that you want to convert a large truck
regardless of the practicality.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh yeah, one other thing. You might want to calculate how much room 40 GC
batteries will require. I don't think you'll be able to fit them all
under the bed and in the engine compartment.
You might end up loosing some bed space to batteries.
> At 10:08 AM 1/25/2007, David Roden wrote:
>>On 24 Jan 2007 at 13:55, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
>> > I don't consider a 700lb payload capacity to even BE a truck. More
>> > of a car with a big trunk.
>>
>>Speaking of such matters, have you considered a car or small truck
>> pulling a
>>largeish trailer? When you weren't hauling lumber, you could put
>> batteries
>>in the trailer for more range. Seriously.
>
> I sat back and thought about this for a while. It has definite
> advantages.
> Then I went through the list of places I've gone to pick up stuff
> with my truck in the last couple years.
> Won't work. I've been to several places with long driveways where I
> had to back the truck out since the only turnaround was where their
> car was parked. I've crossed the ferry several times, a trailer adds
> $70 to the roundtrip cost. Most of my loads at the lumber yard are
> down dead-end lumber aisles.
> So no, a trailer would be a royal PITA.
>
> Looking at the 2003 S10 specs (i.e. small truck.)
> Other than being generally uncomfortable for me (i'm not small), I
> have some problems with the bed.
> 6' long, and only 40" between wheel wells. If I put a rack in the
> bed, I could get 55" between the sides, which would make it wide
> enough for plywood. Tailgate would have to be down.
> This does make 12' and 16' lumber a lot more difficult though. I'd
> probably have to put a lumber rack on it.
> Curb weight is 3200 lbs. Payload capacity is 1400 lbs. So no way to
> put a 240V pack of GC batteries in it.
> A 120V pack weighs 1200 lbs - and brings the truck to probably
> 4400lbs. Half the weight of the F250, and half the battery
> pack. The lower voltage makes things more difficult as well.
> So, it would need to have at least a 1000 lbs payload capacity
> added. This would likely result in a vehicle that is over it's original
> GVWR.
>
> Using a F250, I can put a 240V GC pack, and still have 1000 lbs (or a
> bit more) payload capacity with no mods, and not going over GVWR.
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I
> dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Cor,
Thanks for your comments and insight. I was suspecting something like this
bad brush contact idea or or a momentary short and then let go, to create a
spike. Nothing bad happened with the Navitas TSE600-96 I tried for a while
or the original 1221- 84V controller put back temporarily with no regen
(fortunately). It would seem likely that I have no brush contact now since
the motor doesn't draw current and turn. I agree the motor problem seems
most like failed brushes and I hope that is all the damage there is. I am
keen to get a look when it is accessible in early April.
Thanks.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 6:55 PM
Subject: RE: repair of controller, Re: Curtis 1221R regen controller wiring
diagram
Doug,
What if a brush started to fail (either stuck in its holder,
so not touching the comm with enough force to hold it down, or
worn down to the end stop?
If you had a part in the controller that was already "weak"
and the brush lost contact with the comm, even though you
were driving it lightly - it could still create a voltage
spike with either too high a peak or too steep a slope for
the part to handle, causing it to fail and blow, which caused
the avalanche stopped by the fuse blowing.
If you had rough behavior when starting and eventually no
motor while the controller is giving full motor voltage, that
even more points to failed brush(es).
Opening the motor will tell.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Correct, van, truck - it is the same base, though the van lacks
the sheet metal that limits the length of the load in a truck.
I just went out and re-measured (I was quoting from memory) and
the bed on my light truck is 7.5ft, with the tailgate down it
extends beyond 9 ft but I would be very uncomfortable when I
would try to transport 16' lumber in there, not to mention that
it is outside the law.
You mentioned the required ability to transport 16' lumber and
JS suggested how you can do that with a van, while this is
impossible with a truck, unless you know of a way to legally
transport this in the bed, I think only a lumber-rack will
allow this - again a way to bypass the sheet metal barrier of
a truck.
You indicated that you are not small. I am 6'3" and sit very
comfortable in this '94 S10 PU.
(Note that the rear springs are beefed up to increase GVWR so
that it can carry a large load of batteries and still have some
cargo capacity, the converting company changed the original
weight plate to indicate the larger legal ratings.)
If you do the F250 conversion, let us know your experience and
if you like it.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 4:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
At 04:07 PM 1/27/2007, Cor van de Water wrote:
>I think JS tries to suggest using an (electric) van, because
>it does what you describe that you need.
It's just a truck with a roof. Same weight problems (actually, the
van is heavier), and not as easy to pack batteries into.
>But seeing that trucks are generally limited to 7' bed if you
>have the longbed version and more like 5' when you like more cab
>the suggestion of a van is a very good one.
???? What kind of tiny trucks are you working with? My pickup has
an 8' bed that is about 50" between wheel wells.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
The Michigan State University Solar Car Team inherited the school's
donated EV1 just last Thursday. I'm geeked to be the only one to have
the key. Here is a photo:
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/p1010008.jpg
A person named Kurt Kammerer from San Diego "loaned" the vehicle for
just under a month, ending 8/24/98, with help from employee Scott
Brierley. You here, guys?
The VIN is 4G5PX2254V0200116 - how do I tell what model it is (the
repair manual references "1997 only" and "1998 only")? Does the model
year have to do with "Gen I" and "Gen II", or are there more versions
than just two? I remember there was a recall - what for? What kind of
batteries did it have?
Since I'm trying to legal about this (we may show it off for fund
raising, etc.), I'm going to try to rebuild the few missing pieces and
call it the EV2 as suggested, perhaps. We have all 30 pounds of shop
manuals. Most of the stuff is actually there, that would be needed to
propel it. At worst the display won't work at first. We might even add
solar cells (my previous reference to GM's short-lived idea of adding
solar cells came from "The Car That Could", though it's been a while
since I've read it).
It has three potentiometers for the throttle! Oh, and the 400A current
shunt has an accuracy of +/-0.5V (to E-meter people). The climate
control system says it can use up to 2000W to do "maximum cooling" and
somewhat less when the heat pump is reversed. The heating setting can
use inverter heat to help. I can't believe how long the gate drive
wires are (not just signals, they carry current). The motor is tiny!!!
I'm probably going to get 26 AGMs for it (recommendations?):
http://tinyurl.com/2zry6q (12V, 55Ah, $89.30)
I use these kind for everything (there's a small one on my computer
desk). They seem fairly easy to take care of. The team had eight
Trojan SG-50 gel cells, but they're toast, and we never even used them.
They seem to have a much higher self-discharge than the AGMs, and the
internal resistance is sky high now.
- Arthur Matteson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
with a flat roof u can add light weight solar cells for range extension and all
the batteries can fir under a false floor in the cargo area this has
possiblites !! there was and may still be a ev van on ev finder that was
converted for the us navy for sell check it out may be a better fit than you
think
----- Original Message -----
From: John G. Lussmyer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
At 03:41 PM 1/27/2007, JS wrote:
>My first car is an EV and gets over 95% of my driving. After
>searching for an 8 or 12 passenger new or used van for 3 months I
>almost gave up.
>
>I tried Enterprise Used Car sales on the internet.
>They had eight 15 passenger 2001 vans! They were a year old, from car pools,
>with about 20,000 miles on them. When I took out the 3 rear seats I can carry
Your point is?
I have an EV (a Sparrow). I have a car for long trips. I have a
Pickup truck for big loads.
I'd LIKE to have a Electric Pickup truck.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com<http://www.casadelgato.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's not just putting 7000 lithium's together, you have to figure out how to
charge them, keep them balanced, and protected from overcharge/discharge, and
over-current draws. Also, keeping them cool and safety from explosions. There's
more safer chemistries, NiMH and LiFeSO4 that you might want to consider.
Thundersky (www.everspring.net) has currently the cheapest traction batteries
you can buy I believe.
- Tony
Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Ken, welcome. I don't think many
hobbyists have tried the 7000 AA
battery trick, but many are interested. For FAST cars, faster than the
Tesla, check out NEDRA - www.nedra.com.
As for a How-To, there are lots of sites. Check out mine, or
www.metricmind.com for installation of AC systems.
Also, there are a few links below that will be very helpful.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ken Amornkul
Sent: January 25, 2007 5:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: hi: where to start?
Hello EV experts,
I'm new to the list. I got interested in EV after reading about Tesla's new
car. And I have a few questions I hope someone out there can answer: Is
there a "how-to" somewhere on the net that can show me how to build an EV
and how good amateur EV technology is currently? Are motors comparable to
Tesla's available for purchase to the average consumer? Can we use 7,000 AA
li-ion batteries for energy storage for an EV?
Thanks in advance!
-k
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:16 PM 1/27/2007, Cor van de Water wrote:
I just went out and re-measured (I was quoting from memory) and
the bed on my light truck is 7.5ft, with the tailgate down it
which make/model?
extends beyond 9 ft but I would be very uncomfortable when I
would try to transport 16' lumber in there, not to mention that
it is outside the law.
Well, in a full size truck, I hang a red flag on the long lumber.
A lumber rack is an option on any truck. I'd just like to be able to
carry plywood flat without too many contortions.
You indicated that you are not small. I am 6'3" and sit very
comfortable in this '94 S10 PU.
It's been a while since I tried the various small trucks. Last time
I went looking, I had "knees hitting the steering column" problems in
just about all of them.
(Note that the rear springs are beefed up to increase GVWR so
that it can carry a large load of batteries and still have some
cargo capacity, the converting company changed the original
weight plate to indicate the larger legal ratings.)
Were the brakes beefed up as well?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:19 PM 1/27/2007, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>>But seeing that trucks are generally limited to 7' bed if you
>>have the longbed version and more like 5' when you like more cab
>>the suggestion of a van is a very good one.
>
> ???? What kind of tiny trucks are you working with? My pickup has
> an 8' bed that is about 50" between wheel wells.
Indeed, the bed on my short bed truck is almost 7ft long.
John, the point you are missing is that a compact truck will get better
range with a 1200 lb battery back than one of these behemoths will with a
2400 lb pack.
Porbably have more payload capacity too.
Where are you getting your numbers? I haven't found ones for a
Toyota small truck.
I just did the ones for an S10, and it looked pretty pathetic cargo
capacity wise.
For ANY truck I can beef up the suspension to carry lots of cargo -
and go way over the original GVWR. I'd rather not do that. I like
the brakes to work!
I was looking at an F250 with a 3300 lb capacity, which came out to
about a 1000 lb capacity after conversion. The S10 came out to about
a 200 lb capacity - with half the pack.
Good comment on fitting the batteries. I'll have to do some more
checking on that. I can't just ask somebody, since it looks like
nobody has tried converting a big truck.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I talked to her again yesterday, and it seems she had quoted me for stripped
#1 (pencil lead size or larger). They are paying between $.48 and $1.00 a
pound for unstripped small wire.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 9:29 PM
Subject: RE: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a Terminal
Get? Not very, it shouldn't!)
> Spot price of a pound of copper is at $2.65 right now.
> At 3.1g each a pre-1982 copper penny is worth 1.8 cents
> Back in October when it was up to $3.50/lb that penny was worth 2.4 cents.
> Save your wire and save your pennys :-)
> Taking $0.58/lb for the wore isn't worth it. But getting $2+ just might
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Joseph H. Strubhar
> > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 5:45 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a
> > Terminal Get? Not very, it shouldn't!)
> >
> >
> > I'd say you're geting ripped off by the recyclers - I recently got a
quote
> > of over $2.00 per pound for dirty copper, that is, with the insulation
ON.
> >
> > I'll be selling some shortly - we'll see what price I actually get!
> >
> > Joseph H. Strubhar
> >
> > E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Web: www.gremcoinc.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "EVDL post" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:22 PM
> > Subject: old copper cable recycling (WAS: Re: How Hot Does a Terminal
Get?
> > Not very, it shouldn't!)
> >
> >
> > > I am generating some used cable as I am going through my pack,
> > > putting new cables in to replace the old ones that were getting
> > > hot (which were most all of the cables made at the installation
> > > of the second pack in my car some five years ago - apparently
> > > defective cable that had some oxidation on the strands - I'll try
> > > to post about that some other time). The point of this post is
> > > that a fellow EV'er (and I believe he is on the EVDL also)
> > > prompted me to think about recycling that cable, when I mentioned
> > > I was going to throw the old stuff out. Well, I called my local
> > > recycler, Marin Recycling (Marin is the county where I live), and
> > > they gave me a price of 58 cents/pound, with the insulation
> > > removed from the cable. I doubt it's going to be more than a
> > > couple of pounds with the insulation off. Even if it was ten
> > > pounds, it would barely be worth my time to slice the insulation
> > > off the copper and drive it to the recycling place. There's just
> > > not that much of it. Anybody have different numbers/pound?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Pat and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Freedom Ev update and BBB
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:37:04 EST
>Jerry,
> Sorry to hear about the unfortunate events.
You just have to power thru it as these things happen
often, more often than most relize and why I'm about the
only one putting an EV into production. It really helps to
just refuse to let anything get in the way, pick yourself up
and do it until you find the best way!!
I've been
>sitting around with a herring on my tongue (baited
>breath) waiting to see what a finished Freedom looks
>like.
I didn't take any but many others did. I'm really
waiting for it to be painted well, doors, windshield
installed before I take pics. At least the pics they took
can show the rear, which I'm particularly proud of. Rears
are very hard to make look good.
I'm back now in Tampa, only hitting it for 1 day of 3
so to get back to move in the new shop. It's a good size,
able to fit everything needed to build 4 at once!! Will be
quite a while before that's achieved.
The custom windshield flange, door jams have been
amazingly hard, time consuming to do so I'm going to
redesign it so little work is needed after the layup for the
whole body. It will make it easier to build in the composite
roll cage too.
The only reason I went was several people came mostly
to see it from all across the country. But it went over
fairly well considering with many asking questions.
Sat at the BBB at FAU was a good time meeting many
old friends and making some new ones. It's about 2x's as
large as last yrs, growing by leaps and bounds ;^D
Matt, Shawn and the rest of the crew do a great job.
Thanks all!! And with beautiful weather , probably 78F today
there, it should become the winter EV event or at least for
this coast.
Well I've been up since 3am, 9pm now, with 3.5 hrs of
driving each way, it's time to sleep!!
Jerry Dycus
I will be looking forward to seeing its performance
>even if the paint job is a little tacky.
> Somebody take lots of pictures at BBB.
>
>Yours,
>
>Pat
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dmitri wrote:
However, you can get an AC motor and controller with regen, like in the
Tesla, just less powerful @ www.metricmind.com for about $8000 - $9000
~200 kW AC drive systems will be available from Metric Mind this
year - that's the plan.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 7:29 PM
Subject: RE: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
Hello John,
I would not have one of any of those light weight pickup again. The one we
had at our family ranch did not last a day. Sure, you can beef up the
springs, but the frame is the weak area.
We loaded up a 750 lb bail of hay in a Toyota and going over the rough roads
and cross country, it bent the frame where the box hit the cab. We took it
back right now, because the dealer said it will work for what we need.
The sheet metal was all beat to hell, because the sheet metal is only 22
gage!! There is no inner panel on some of these rigs.
My niece try to drive the road to the ranch one time in the winter in only 6
inches of snow on the road. The front wheel drive, could not break down the
snow, so we had her drive in back wards so the front wheels would have a
clear path.
I drove my EV which weighs 7150 lbs, through a foot of snow on that road
which goes up a steep hill, down through a creek, across open range and
again down a very steep twisting driveway with no problem at all.
I could not make it, or would not even attempt it with my city town car,
which is design for flat pavement driving only in the summer time.
So, build a heavy duty pickup EV. This will demonstrate to others that a EV
does not have to be a baby buggy rig, driven only in the summer on smooth
flat roads.
I go to a Café that is on the edge of town, where ranches will drive in 30
miles for a cup of coffee and go back again. They drive big F250 rigs that
have big foot combine tires on them so they can make it out of there
driveway.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland Wiench wrote:
> Someone should check the receptacle circuit that the EV plugs
> into.
Apparently you missed the detail that the vehicle was *not* plugged in
at the time. (And the other instance was on Alcatraz, so not the same
charging outlet anyway.)
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Arthur!
Congratulations! You have a Gen I (1997) EV1- should be green if I recall?
All of the Gen I cars were lead-acid; Gen IIs (1999- there was no MY1998)
were mostly NiMH, PbA in Arizona and the hottest places in CA.
Scott Brierley was another EV Specialist in San Diego; he has since moved on
to another career entirely. You car was one of his demo cars, so it would
have been loaned to a bunch of people over the years, used in events, etc.
At the end of the EV1 program, 30-40 vehicles were gutted and donated to
universities and museums. Two or three universities have since rebuilt their
EV1s in various configurations- none of them to orginal spec, of course.
The recall you mention had to do with a charge port failure- it only
affected the Gen I cars, and those that were returned to the road were
fixed.
Unless someone at the university has already started to rebuild the car,
you'll still be missing several components. There's a partial list in the
agreement the university made with GM. In general, it's not that there were
that many components removed, but the ones that were taken are among the
hardest to replace- namely, several of the controllers (4 of 7, I believe,
though a couple, like the HTCM, aren't crucial) and the inverter is probably
not intact if you pop the cover off. Nevertheless, it's not an
insurmountable project, to be sure... keep us posted!
chelsea
From: "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: We Have Kurt Kammerer's EV1, And We Like It!
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:24:07 -0500
Hi all,
The Michigan State University Solar Car Team inherited the school's
donated EV1 just last Thursday. I'm geeked to be the only one to have
the key. Here is a photo:
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/p1010008.jpg
A person named Kurt Kammerer from San Diego "loaned" the vehicle for
just under a month, ending 8/24/98, with help from employee Scott
Brierley. You here, guys?
The VIN is 4G5PX2254V0200116 - how do I tell what model it is (the
repair manual references "1997 only" and "1998 only")? Does the model
year have to do with "Gen I" and "Gen II", or are there more versions
than just two? I remember there was a recall - what for? What kind of
batteries did it have?
Since I'm trying to legal about this (we may show it off for fund
raising, etc.), I'm going to try to rebuild the few missing pieces and
call it the EV2 as suggested, perhaps. We have all 30 pounds of shop
manuals. Most of the stuff is actually there, that would be needed to
propel it. At worst the display won't work at first. We might even add
solar cells (my previous reference to GM's short-lived idea of adding
solar cells came from "The Car That Could", though it's been a while
since I've read it).
It has three potentiometers for the throttle! Oh, and the 400A current
shunt has an accuracy of +/-0.5V (to E-meter people). The climate
control system says it can use up to 2000W to do "maximum cooling" and
somewhat less when the heat pump is reversed. The heating setting can
use inverter heat to help. I can't believe how long the gate drive
wires are (not just signals, they carry current). The motor is tiny!!!
I'm probably going to get 26 AGMs for it (recommendations?):
http://tinyurl.com/2zry6q (12V, 55Ah, $89.30)
I use these kind for everything (there's a small one on my computer
desk). They seem fairly easy to take care of. The team had eight
Trojan SG-50 gel cells, but they're toast, and we never even used them.
They seem to have a much higher self-discharge than the AGMs, and the
internal resistance is sky high now.
- Arthur Matteson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Austin wrote:
> > ... at the drags just this last year at PIR three separate
> > EVs popped batteries within a couple hours of each other,
> > one of the cars catching fire
>
> How does this happen?!
What happens at the drags, stays at the drags... ;^>
The batteries that popped at the drags most likely did so under extreme
discharge conditions, and the vehicle that caught fire probably did so
when, or very soon after, it popped one or more batteries. I don't
think the report was that this happened while the race vehicle was
sitting idle.
> A PbA battery can just burst into flames when not under
> charge or discharge?
>
> That seems crazy.
The 914 that burst into flames was equipped with Rudman regs; while
discussion on what might have happened kind of fizzled out, shunt/bypass
style regs such as this could fail such that they load a battery outside
of their normal abilities and cause something to smolder/burn. This
could happen even though the vehicle's main contactor(s) is(are) open
and there is no charge discharge load on the pack at the time.
I have also heard of Yts continuing to heat internally (dramatically)
some time after being taken off charge, though I haven't personally
experienced it. I have taken a YT to close to 60C for some hours during
a charge mishap a few years back and the battery did not misbehave.
(Indeed, after letting it cool back to room temp, it was tested and
found to have much better capacity than prior to the mishap.)
Any number of things might have caused the recent GEM fire, and might
easily result in the fire department writing it off as having started
due to electrical failure. GEMs are typically open (no doors), and the
batteries are under the bench seat. If the plastic seat covering
happens to be flammable and someone flicks a cigarette butt into the
open vehicle as they walk by... well after the entirely
plastic/fibreglass bodied vehicle burns to the ground and all the
insulation is burnt off the traction wiring so it can lay against the
aluminum chassis it'll certainly seem reasonable enough to cite
electrical failure and move on to the next case.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chelsea Sexton wrote:
I've have had many hours of recent conversation with both
the Volt designers and engineers as well as the execs and PR folks. A lot
can happen between concept car and showroom, and ultimately, I'm going to
judge them on what they do, not what they say. But all pr spin aside, there
is a level of commitment and sincerity in the individuals involved that
I've
not seen in years- and I know for certain that we've collectively played a
part in the fact that they're even pursuing this direction again; not only
do I hope they follow through, I think it's crucial for the future of the
company. Do I wish they'd never taken the detour? Of course...but this is
exactly what we've been working for, and if we can't allow the slightest
optimism, I have to wonder why we're bothering?
This is good stuff Chelsea. We are very lucky to have an insider's view here
on the EVDL.
Thank you.
Redemption? I believe in giving everyone every possible chance for it.
The survival of GM may indeed depend on the success of EV/alternative
technologies.
It is nice to know that there are dedicated folks involved in the VOLT
project.
Just hoping that the suits upstairs make the wise decisions.
Thank You Chelsea for being here with the folks that believe in this
technology!
Roy
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Director
www.nedra.com
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Using a F250, I can put a 240V GC pack, and still have 1000 lbs (or a
> bit more) payload capacity with no mods, and not going over GVWR.
>
I'm currently driving a 2000 Silverado, but I'd like to think it has a future
with an 11" motor.
Perfect for all the around town chores it's doing now, just without using any
gasoline. My current
EV should take over my commuting duties this year freeing up the Silverado for
conversion. I hope
it will be conversion number 2 or 3. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My apology. I thought I had posted this to the 3-wheel group.
> >
> >I haven't seen any of the Monowheel vehicles mentioned. It's an
> >interesting design (of 3 wheeler).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congratulations on the EV1, sounds like an exciting project!
It has three potentiometers for the throttle!
The nifty thing about that is that the three pots are offset from each
other by 15 degrees or so. The controller can thereby detect any pot
failure. The single pot on most DC controllers is quite a design flaw.
-Peter
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes the EV1 and the S-10 EV both use a heat pump. The EV1 was the first
vehicle to have a heat pump.
I am not aware of any other vehicle using a heat pump.
Don
In a message dated 1/25/2007 6:29:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Didn't the EV1 use a heat pump? I thought some
production EV did use one.
John
--- End Message ---
