EV Digest 6356
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Rebates/Incentives/Credits, Was: Debating purchasing an EV
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Link 10 Question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Electric Vehicle bursts into flames - EVLN(GEM nEV besmirches EV's
reputation)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) [Fwd: RE: Re A Mere Tinge of Green]
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: I Need You to Blitz GM Like Never Before, More Comments
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Converting ICE vehicles for profit
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Rebates/Incentives/Credits, Was: Debating purchasing an EV
by "Doug McKee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Debating purchasing an EV
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Xantrex Choice Model Redux
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Xantrex Choice Model Redux
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Xantrex Choice Model Redux
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) 200kw AC (Re: where to start?)
by "Robert Blasutig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Xantrex Choice Model Redux
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Xantrex Choice Model Redux
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Xantrex Choice Model Redux
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) SOT Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Xantrex Choice Model Redux
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Erratic voltage readings solved! What a difference a wire route makes...
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Fw: Newby Downunder more help.
by "Don Moyes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Electric Vehicle bursts into flames - EVLN(GEM nEV besmirches
EV's reputation)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Engine out
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Solar power was Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Solar power was Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Solar power was Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
by "Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dana,
Can you explain more about how you got $8,000 of rebates, incentives and
credits? The only thing I can find is the $1,000 Qualified Electric Vehicle
Credit, form 8834 with the IRS.
Thanks!
Bruce
____________________________________________________________________________
_____
Dana Havranek wrote:
So it cost me $14,000.00 and that was reduced to about $6,000.00 with
rebates, incentives and credits.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
You must of miss my e-mail to you on F18.
Installing your AH capacity into you Link 10, turning ON F18 allows you to
increment in 1 to 2 amp-hour steps. If you overshoot your reading, then
turn OFF F18 so you can increment in 20 Amp hour steps.
I keep mind OFF all the time, which is the DEFAULT setting.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:00 AM
Subject: Link 10 Question
> I just installed my repaired Link 10 (E-Meter) and I found a setting
> I am not familiar with, F18. My manual is from 1999 and only shows
> up to F18 on the settings. What is F18? I checked the website and
> Xantrex no longer shows the manual as a download.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
> In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
> position. (Horace)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Myles Twete wrote:
> It wasn't the 914...it was the highly modified GEO w/10-ETEKs
> and it wasn't due to anyone's regs as there were no regs, as
> I recall these were floodies.
The 914 I am referring to is not the one at the drags (Otmar's CaPoppy,
I expect), but rather the one that burned in CA well prior to the drags.
I think the 914 I'm referring to was Michael Bearden's (sp?), and it
*was* running a pack of Optima YTs equipped with Rudman regs. Unlike
the vehicles at the drags, this 914 burned while parked and unplugged;
fortunately, it happened to be parked on the street rather than in a
garage at the time.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chelsea, here is an exchange you might find interesting:
John in Sylmar
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Re A Mere Tinge of Green
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 10:04:09 -0800
From: Neil, Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'JS ' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Thank you, John, but I'm afraid GM's going to make you eat those words.
They couldn't do the Volt with anything less than the batteries they have
aboard -- in terms of energy density, safety, range, temperature tolerance,
cost, you name it. GM is not stalling. They are absolutely dead serious about
the electrification of the automobile. I've spent a lot of time with these
people, and I assure you they mean what they say, and the technical challenges
of a practicable, marketable EV are not trivial.
Stay tuned. Thanks.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: JS
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 1/18/2007 9:41 AM
Subject: Re A Mere Tinge of Green
Bravo Dan!
GM could have made the Volt available NOW with lead-acid or NiMh
batteries as they did with the EV1.
Better a start than waiting for Lithium Ion technology to improve.
Those of us driving electrical vehicles (mine is 25 years old) and
watching the development of newer batteries
know GM is merely stalling.
John Spradley Sylmar, CA
Solar Powered 1981 Jet Electrica
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 27, 2007, at 4:07 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:
Of course, if you haul dirty loads, then a van does not work
as good as a truck where you can rinse out the bed easily.
But seeing that trucks are generally limited to 7' bed if you
have the longbed version and more like 5' when you like more cab
the suggestion of a van is a very good one.
Most US full size Pickups have at least 48 inches between the
fender-wells and at least 96 inches in bed length with the tailgate up
(easy to haul 4 foot by 8 foot plywood or drywall.) I think he is
looking at that functional point for his proposed EV project.
Rather than harp about his needs (I've felt the pain of using my Tacoma
Pickup to do that) I think it would be much more productive to figure
out how to do it with an EV (since that is clearly what he is going
for.) Flame my attitude off list please (I like the delete key.)
When I look at his goals (over several posts) it seems that duel 8 inch
motors could handle his needs. With duel 120v packs a pair of Curtis
controllers should be able to push around at least 7000 lb. Many EVs
1/2 the weight get along with one! I doubt the power requirements for
steady speed operation on level ground would double, but the power to
accelerate or climb hills would climb with the weight.
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's 288,000 now, and still going up.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: I Need You to Blitz GM Like Never Before, More Comments
Remember from a GM point of view 120,000 is just an average seller. So
while it looks like a large number to us, I am sure GM will wanr a lot mor
hits before thy commit to build the VOLT.
via Treo
David Hrivnak
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Profitable," is the key word.
Mike Brown (ElectroAutomotive) has the Rabbit market
covered.
You'll spend 9K on parts & batteries; 0-3K on a
glider. That leaves just the welding & 80 hours.
Consider that recently, two very nice 144V Civic
conversions; one a hatch; one a two-seater del Sol,
went for 10K and 12K, respectively. Now look at the
investment of 12K (above). This is the reason I say,
"Profitable?"
It's a function of gasoline prices, and where
people's hearts are. I think the hearts are coming
around, while the gas prices are falling right now.
But wait until summer! (;-p
Best to you,
--- "Roger Daisley @ R J Ranch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Is it possible to make a profitable business
> converting ICE's, such as
> original VW bug's or Rabbits or perhaps, specialty
> vehicles, such as
> road-legal dune buggy's into EV's? I'm looking for
> something to do, have a
> reasonable amount of mechanical and electrical
> ability and have owned and
> driven a converted '76 Rabbit. I have a 3000 sq. ft.
> facility to use. All
> comments greatly appreciated.
> /roger d
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
She probably lives in California or Minnesota.
In Texas we get squat.
Doug
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jay
I'm in CT and have friends in VT. Used to live there. Actually, I bought an EV
in Vermont and
brought it down here. It was too rusty so I just scavenged parts that are now
the heart of my EV.
What town is it in? If it's near White River Junction, I have a friend there
who is very
mechanical. It's a 5 hour drive up to Vermont, but if there's some way I can
help out, let me
know. If you don't want the truck, and it's still available, I'd be interested
in taking a look
myself.
Dave Cover
--- Jay Paroline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am new to this list, and new to the world of EV's in general, but
> not new to the idea of trying to save gas and use modes of
> transportation that are more eco-friendly. I was commuting on a
> motorcycle for a while, but a 70mph brush with death on the freeway
> has me back in 4 wheels. Public transportation isn't available and
> riding a bicycle isn't practical for every day, which brings me to EV's.
>
> The EV community seems to be full of DIY-ers, with most people taking
> a traditional ICE car and ripping out everything ICE related. I
> applaud those people, but I also remember the battle I lost with my
> car when I tried to replace the starter. I am not mechanically
> inclined, and I have no illusion of being able to remove an engine
> and all related parts, and then install something new that would
> actually function safely. Hence, I am considering buying a vehicle
> that someone else has converted. The particular vehicle I'm
> considering is a 1994 Chevy S-10 that was converted from the factory
> as part of a business venture that didn't work out. It has only 6,000
> miles on it and, according to my father who looked at it, is in
> perfect condition having been stored in a garage. The reason it
> hasn't been used much is that the owner lives on the top of a
> mountain, in VT (where my parents also live). I'm in FL, so I have no
> way to look at it myself. The owner is asking $5,800 without batteries.
>
> My questions are:
> 1. What sort of questions should I ask before buying?
> 2. Is $5,800 a reasonable price for such a vehicle? Is it reasonable
> to pay that much, plus another $850 to have it shipped, plus another
> $2,000+ to put batteries in it?
> 3. If something breaks, how hard is it going to be for me to get it
> running again? I am fairly technical and understand electronics
> fairly well, much better than mechanical stuff anyway, and the truck
> supposedly comes with all the original design information, but I
> recognize that there may be problems I can't diagnose. If that
> happens, what do I do? Have any of you had difficulty figuring out
> what's wrong with your EV and getting it working? What did you do?
> $8,000-10,000 is an awful lot of money to pay for a vehicle that
> could stop working and become unfixable, and for that much money I'd
> need to be sure it would last me a long time.
> 4. Is there a better alternative? In all honesty I don't need a
> truck, a small car (even a Commutacar) would suffice as long as it's
> capable of at least 40mph, I just haven't seen anything like that
> even remotely close to where I live, or close to my parents so I
> would have to buy it sight unseen.
>
> Any suggestions would be wonderful. I am also perusing the archives
> and will see if I find anything useful there.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have tried posting the twice now and it didn't work either
time. (At least I never got a copy back and it never showed up on
the Yahoo archive.) Maybe it will work as a reply to an existing message.
I have just installed my Link-10/E-meter after having it repaired by
Xantrex. When I went through the setup functions, I see it now
includes a function F-18. My manual is from 1999 and only shows up
to F-17. I tried to download a fresh copy of the manual from the
Xantrex website, but the link only goes to a spec sheet.
Does anyone know what function F-18 is?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just leave it off, all it does is sequences the AH input faster.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Xantrex Choice Model Redux
> I have tried posting the twice now and it didn't work either
> time. (At least I never got a copy back and it never showed up on
> the Yahoo archive.) Maybe it will work as a reply to an existing message.
>
> I have just installed my Link-10/E-meter after having it repaired by
> Xantrex. When I went through the setup functions, I see it now
> includes a function F-18. My manual is from 1999 and only shows up
> to F-17. I tried to download a fresh copy of the manual from the
> Xantrex website, but the link only goes to a spec sheet.
>
> Does anyone know what function F-18 is?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
> In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
> position. (Horace)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That makes 3 times I've seen it on the list, and there were a few replies.
At 01:21 PM 1/28/2007, Mike Chancey wrote:
I have tried posting the twice now and it didn't work either
time. (At least I never got a copy back and it never showed up on
the Yahoo archive.) Maybe it will work as a reply to an existing message.
I have just installed my Link-10/E-meter after having it repaired by
Xantrex. When I went through the setup functions, I see it now
includes a function F-18. My manual is from 1999 and only shows up
to F-17. I tried to download a fresh copy of the manual from the
Xantrex website, but the link only goes to a spec sheet.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor,
Is this a Brusa setup, or is this going to be something else? Rough ideas
on pricing at this time?
Rob.
On 1/27/07, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dmitri wrote:
> However, you can get an AC motor and controller with regen, like in the
> Tesla, just less powerful @ www.metricmind.com for about $8000 - $9000
~200 kW AC drive systems will be available from Metric Mind this
year - that's the plan.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, when I checked both the Yahoo archives, only your recent
response to me can be found, none of my messages, even this most
recent one is there. So, if I have some how missed reading the
answer, can any one try again telling me what the heck the F-18 function is?
That makes 3 times I've seen it on the list, and there were a few replies.
At 01:21 PM 1/28/2007, Mike Chancey wrote:
I have tried posting the twice now and it didn't work either
time. (At least I never got a copy back and it never showed up on
the Yahoo archive.) Maybe it will work as a reply to an existing message.
I have just installed my Link-10/E-meter after having it repaired
by Xantrex. When I went through the setup functions, I see it now
includes a function F-18. My manual is from 1999 and only shows up
to F-17. I tried to download a fresh copy of the manual from the
Xantrex website, but the link only goes to a spec sheet.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I
dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike again for the fourth time,
When you turn ON F18, it allows you to initially input the Ampere-hour
rating of you battery in the Battery Capacity section by 1 or 2 AH steps at
a time for small amp-hour capacity batteries.
If you have a very large Ampere-hour, then it is best to keep F18 off, so
you can sequence the Ampere-hour up to 20 AH at a time. The ampere hour
counter will go up to 1980 Ah, so if you want to change the AH setting on
the E-Meter you have to sequence it all the way to 1980 before it resets to
0, so its best to leave it in the OFF which is the Default setting.
I leave F18 in the OFF setting all the time.
After you turn F18 Off, go back to the Setting Battery Capacity in the
manual and follow the directions for inputting the AH data.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: Xantrex Choice Model Redux
> John, when I checked both the Yahoo archives, only your recent
> response to me can be found, none of my messages, even this most
> recent one is there. So, if I have some how missed reading the
> answer, can any one try again telling me what the heck the F-18 function
> is?
>
>
> >That makes 3 times I've seen it on the list, and there were a few
> >replies.
> >
> >At 01:21 PM 1/28/2007, Mike Chancey wrote:
> >>I have tried posting the twice now and it didn't work either
> >>time. (At least I never got a copy back and it never showed up on
> >>the Yahoo archive.) Maybe it will work as a reply to an existing
> >>message.
> >>
> >>I have just installed my Link-10/E-meter after having it repaired
> >>by Xantrex. When I went through the setup functions, I see it now
> >>includes a function F-18. My manual is from 1999 and only shows up
> >>to F-17. I tried to download a fresh copy of the manual from the
> >>Xantrex website, but the link only goes to a spec sheet.
> >
> >--
> >John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I
> >dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now it gets stranger. I just checked Anthony Nugen's site at
<http://evdl.awardspace.com/>http://evdl.awardspace.com/ and I see a
response from Roland on this thread and my original question and his
answer on the Link 10 Question thread. I also see that Yahoo is
reporting a problem on their system. I did just run the query ev on
the list processor and it shows I am set to get copies of my
messages, so why I didn't get them before I don't know.
I guess it all boils down to software glitches. Meanwhile, I have my
answer. Thanks Roland, sorry John.
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
At 06:25 PM 1/28/2007, you wrote:
John, when I checked both the Yahoo archives, only your recent
response to me can be found, none of my messages, even this most
recent one is there. So, if I have some how missed reading the
answer, can any one try again telling me what the heck the F-18 function is?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, I have no idea what avo is, but SVO stands for "Straight Vegetable
Oil" and WVO is "Waste Vegetable Oil".
Diesel engines were originally designed to run on vegetable oil. Most
modern diesels require small modifications to run on veggy, or you can
modify the oil (Biodiesel).
For more info, I'd suggest looking into one of the appropriate forums.
Try using google.
> what is an avo/wvo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Death to All Spammers<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
>
>
> > Well, in a full size truck, I hang a red flag on the long lumber.
> > A lumber rack is an option on any truck. I'd just like to be able to
> > carry plywood flat without too many contortions.
> >
> > >You indicated that you are not small. I am 6'3" and sit very
> > >comfortable in this '94 S10 PU.
> >
> > It's been a while since I tried the various small trucks. Last time
> > I went looking, I had "knees hitting the steering column" problems in
> > just about all of them.
> >
> >
>
> If you really *need* a full-sized truck, how about making an SVO/WVO
> conversion of a diesel? Might be better use of your time, much less
> money, and just as low an environmental impact as a lead sled.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland wrote:
Hello Mike again for the fourth time,
<SNIP>
Thanks Roland and all, sorry for the distraction folks. I will crawl
back into my hole now.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You might've heard that at the same time that I
swapped a 600A Raptor for a 1200A, I also put in a new
set of (this time 165Ah) 8V batteries, and I re-routed
a wire.
I posted that I was getting extra sag in the
voltage readings. LISTers posted that it was likely
due to the excessive c-c-c-cold we're having here.
In fact, it was due to the re-route on the wire.
It is low current, HV from the main contactor to the
Raptor harness. Apparently having it travel so close
to the bottom of the controller induced some EMFs or
waveforms that misled the E-meter!
Solution was of course simple: making it travel
another direction in another adjacent harness solved
the issue entirely! (If only all EV issues were like
that...)
peace,
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Moyes
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 6:44 PM
Subject: Newby Downunder more help.
As I have two 48 volt 6.7 inch double ended Prestolites, a GE EV1 SCR
controller limited to 48 volts and forklift contactors I wish to use both
motors in a VW beetle using 48 volts. The wiring diagram I have is for the
forklift which includes four motors and I suspect other features not required
in my proposed vehicle. Is there anyone who could provide me with a wiring
diagram showing just the wiring necessary for the configuration I am proposing?
I have the clutch and flywheel and intend to mount one motor over the top of
the other, connecting the two with a double belt drive, and then driving an
alternator off the other end of the top motor.
Any other advice and comments on the proposed plan would be greatfully received.
Don Moyes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger wrote:
>I think the 914 I'm referring to was Michael Bearden's (sp?)
Correct - see Michael's original post below.
(he rebuilt the WATTABMR with a new BMW320 glider to cover
his driving needs, was the last I heard as I was originally
interested in purchasing the crashed WATTABMR, even drove
up to Petaluma to check it out, but my plans changed to buy
a factory converted US Electricar instead of converting a
BMW-3 and finally Michael was happy to have an easy way to
get another EV conversion going)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
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Hello EV'ers...it's been a long time since I have been able to be a part
of this discussion list. I have been overwhelmed with demands on my time
since I left my career type job at the University in 2003, and have not
been able to keep up with routine e-mails, much less the traffic on the
EVDL. I have been having a great EV time though driving the slick 914
conversion that I bought from Brian Hall last year; a real attention
getter and conversation-starter...until last Sunday morning, when it was
the 5 AM wake up call for our rural neighborhood when it went up in
flames very spectacularly. This EV had a really nice custom fiberglass
body, and that stuff burned big time. On the side of "This is Bad, but
it could have been (much) Worse", I had been having a problem with the
shift linkage and couldn't get it into reverse, which is the only reason
it was parked OUTSIDE of the garage. Inside of the garage were two other
vehicles ( the Gogomobil and our Civic Hybrid) and every tool I own
(which is quite a few...If the Porsche had been inside, no one would have
known about the fire until the whole garage was totally involved. So,
give thanks where appropriate.
I had driven the EV Saturday, and charged it when I returned, thinking
that I was going to drive it Saturday night and Sunday morning, but then
plans changed, and I took another car Saturday night. So, it wasn't
plugged in, and it wasn't moving.
The arson investigator couldn't find any cause for the fire, and I was
way puzzled until Brian came over on Monday and said that he had talked
to Roderick (Wilde) who said he remembers one other time this happened
to an EV with Optimas (which I had). One cell reversed, and turned into
a very hungry resistor/heat sink which caused the destruction of the EV.
This makes sense to me, since the origin of the fire that the
investigator pointed out to me was where the weakest two batteries were
(the next two to be replaced).
I have been working my way through the 32 YT's that I salvaged out of
the wreck of WATTABMR in 2003, and they have been lasting nicely thanks
to Rich and Joes' continued development of the regulator technology.
Anyway, thoughts on this: my garage/shop is separated from the house by
a pretty good distance...what if it was underneath living quarters (as
many garages are)?
Are AGMs uniquely susceptible to this, or is this a potential problem
for other types of batteries?
Michael B (accomplished Chef of Porsche Flambe')
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Just a little update from Edinburgh, Scoltand
I've got to a stage in a propulsion power unit swap that I've visited
before many many times, and have sat back with a drink and begun to make the
list
of things to do before the new 'engine' goes in
I've realised that the components which I've removed and will not be
refitting account for a large percentage of vehicle unreliabilty. Things such
as air
mass sensors, exhaust system, exhaust oxygen sensors, throttle body TPS
sensors, starter motor etc.....all are gone.
normally I would be sitting here having to think of ways to change things
about, or have a feeling of dread which goes with such a major job of fitting
an
untested engine, and so on.
All I have on the list of things to do is I've got to find someway to pack
in my batteries, make a couple of trivial motor mounting brackets and a
little adapter for the clutch, and bolt in the controller.....that's it !
The engine is ready to be lifted out and I'm looking forward to getting
creative with the install.
For a laugh I donwloaded some MTBF (mean time between failure) figures for
various engine emission control sensors......some air mass sensors last only
20K miles, exhaust lambda sensors lasting only 25k, and so on.....many last a
lot longer, but it's not all good with petrol engines is it.
I'll be running a series motor on a clutchless manual box (the whole car was
free and I feel like taking the risk for the first conversion)., which
means I'll have a spare pedal on the left for the clutch. Having thought about
it
I reckon I can coupe it up to make it a regen pedal, operated by the left
foot, but that will have to wait for now, I need the grin first.
This is a great list, cheers !
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--- Begin Message ---
Now go back and see how much those flexible panels are rated to produce.
Realize that this rating is for when the panel is pointing directly at the
sun, at high noon, in someplace bright and sunny like southern Arizona, in
the middle of summer.
Derate the panel by approx 50% because they're flat on the roof, so not
pointing at the sun, it's not noon for most of the day, it's not the
middle of summer for most of the year, etc. etc.
Also realize that the rating is assuming you can run the panels at the
maximum power point, which is usually around 17V give or take a volt for a
12V panel. Hooking these directly up to a battery drags them down to 14V
+-1v with little increase in current, so unless you use a MPP, you just
lost another 15-20%. If you use a MPP you only loose 5-10%.
Figure /maybe/ 4 hrs a day worth of charging.
Multiply this by the number you can fit on top of the van. Divide this by
how many whrs the van takes to move. You'll find that the panels give you
/maybe/ 1-2 miles per day...IF they don't add any drag. If they cause
your Cd to increase by only a few hundreths, then you'll loose range by
adding them (unless you drive at 10-15 mph)
> I've seen some flexible flat panels that are less than
> a half inch thick, doubt they'd cause much drag. Even
> regular panels could work with a aero formed front
> edge. Someone did it to a Prius. A full size van
> might have enough surface area to make it worthwhile.
>
> John
> --- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> The extra drag from having panels mounted on the
>> roof will probably erase
>> any extra range they give...and then some.
>>
>> > with a flat roof u can add light weight solar
>> cells for range extension
>> > and all the batteries can fir under a false floor
>> in the cargo area this
>> > has possiblites !! there was and may still be a
>> ev van on ev finder that
>> > was converted for the us navy for sell check it
>> out may be a better fit
>> > than you think
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: John G.
>> Lussmyer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > To:
>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
>> > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:53 PM
>> > Subject: Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy
>> Vehicle
>> >
>> >
>> > At 03:41 PM 1/27/2007, JS wrote:
>> > >My first car is an EV and gets over 95% of my
>> driving. After
>> > >searching for an 8 or 12 passenger new or used
>> van for 3 months I
>> > >almost gave up.
>> > >
>> > >I tried Enterprise Used Car sales on the
>> internet.
>> > >They had eight 15 passenger 2001 vans! They
>> were a year old, from car
>> > pools,
>> > >with about 20,000 miles on them. When I took
>> out the 3 rear seats I can
>> > carry
>> >
>> > Your point is?
>> > I have an EV (a Sparrow). I have a car for long
>> trips. I have a
>> > Pickup truck for big loads.
>> > I'd LIKE to have a Electric Pickup truck.
>> >
>> > --
>> > John G. Lussmyer
>> >
>>
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
>> >
>>
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com<http://www.casadelgato.com/>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4
>> lines of legalistic
>> junk at the end; then you are specifically
>> authorizing me to do whatever I
>> wish with the message. By posting the message you
>> agree that your long
>> legalistic signature is void.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a PS3 game guru.
> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo!
> Games.
> http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 2007-01-28 at 19:43 -0700, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Now go back and see how much those flexible panels are rated to produce.
>
> Realize that this rating is for when the panel is pointing directly at the
> sun, at high noon, in someplace bright and sunny like southern Arizona, in
> the middle of summer.
I believe some of the flexible panels are less sensitive to angle. That
might have been one of the design criteria...since they Are designed to
go on a roof of a house that won't be moving. I actually have a sample
of a Uni-Solar cell (they're opening a factory here in Michigan).
But agreed, solar cells on a car would be mainly for looks (helping or
hurting, whichever you choose) - but better than a windmill! I just
noticed our EV1 has a groove that would be perfect for holding in cells.
It's as if someone set a large brick, just thinner than the car's
topmost width, on the roof and [hypothetically] dented it in. Anyone
know why it was designed that way...does it help aerodynamics?
- Arthur
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--- Begin Message ---
John,
This is not a personal attack, it is something that I noticed
repeating in several of your responses to suggestions made.
What I see is that you dismiss a valuable suggestion, not
based on data but only on your opinion that it can't be done.
I am not sure, because it is possible that you investigated
these things in the past, but you list no data and no effort
in checking if the suggestion is possible.
In this case, you dismiss it, because you assume that every
source of veg oil has already found a taker and you won't be
able to get any, so there is no need to even try.
I have seen this behavior with many people that had a certain
frame of thinking and they always got stuck in a sub-optimal
solution to a problem, because they did not allow themselves
to consider alternatives.
In this way, you will be limited in solutions, not to what
is actually available and innovative ideas that can give you
a new direction in solving the issue you are dealing with,
but only to the idea that is already stuck in your mind and
that you approved of as "what might work".
I hope I make myself clear and you see that this is not an attack
as I am trying to help you that there are really great ideas
out there and thrown at you, but unless you open your mind for
them, you won't consider them as a possible solution.
Real innovations often happen when we forget what we think
that can't be done and judge every suggestion purely by the
data that is presented with the suggestion for a solution,
you could find a surprise where an uncommon solution will
give you a better result than you thought.
I recall several of Lee's posts of how a solution was found
that was unconventional, but gave a better result than the
standard approach. Only look at Lee's contributions to the
EV world and I hope you see what I try to explain.
It is possible that you have already considered alternatives
and you don't want to be distracted by alternative solutions
such as veg oil in a Diesel truck, just need info how to get
the EV going that is already planned in your head.
In that case, please tell us and we can give suggestions that
align with your plans.
Let me know if you have questions about this response, I may
not have been able to express myself well enough - English is
still my second language.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy Vehicle
At 05:43 AM 1/28/2007, FRED JEANETTE MERTENS wrote:
>what is an avo/wvo
I'm guessing (something) Vegetable Oil.
Not really an option if you don't have a source. (And every
restaurant in the world has already been contacted and their excess
old oil bought/taken by somebody.)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This may have been posted before, but it's a solar van. okay, not
truly solar powered but he gets about 200W from his panels, and then
add the wind generator on to that and you see you won't get stranded
forever...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nw0v7wtGenc
Chris
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Now go back and see how much those flexible panels are rated to
produce.
>
> Realize that this rating is for when the panel is pointing directly
at the
> sun, at high noon, in someplace bright and sunny like southern
Arizona, in
> the middle of summer.
>
> Derate the panel by approx 50% because they're flat on the roof, so
not
> pointing at the sun, it's not noon for most of the day, it's not the
> middle of summer for most of the year, etc. etc.
>
> Also realize that the rating is assuming you can run the panels at
the
> maximum power point, which is usually around 17V give or take a
volt for a
> 12V panel. Hooking these directly up to a battery drags them down
to 14V
> +-1v with little increase in current, so unless you use a MPP, you
just
> lost another 15-20%. If you use a MPP you only loose 5-10%.
>
> Figure /maybe/ 4 hrs a day worth of charging.
>
> Multiply this by the number you can fit on top of the van. Divide
this by
> how many whrs the van takes to move. You'll find that the panels
give you
> /maybe/ 1-2 miles per day...IF they don't add any drag. If they
cause
> your Cd to increase by only a few hundreths, then you'll loose
range by
> adding them (unless you drive at 10-15 mph)
>
>
> > I've seen some flexible flat panels that are less than
> > a half inch thick, doubt they'd cause much drag. Even
> > regular panels could work with a aero formed front
> > edge. Someone did it to a Prius. A full size van
> > might have enough surface area to make it worthwhile.
> >
> > John
> > --- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> The extra drag from having panels mounted on the
> >> roof will probably erase
> >> any extra range they give...and then some.
> >>
> >> > with a flat roof u can add light weight solar
> >> cells for range extension
> >> > and all the batteries can fir under a false floor
> >> in the cargo area this
> >> > has possiblites !! there was and may still be a
> >> ev van on ev finder that
> >> > was converted for the us navy for sell check it
> >> out may be a better fit
> >> > than you think
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: John G.
> >> Lussmyer<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > To:
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:53 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: Alternate configurations for Heavy
> >> Vehicle
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > At 03:41 PM 1/27/2007, JS wrote:
> >> > >My first car is an EV and gets over 95% of my
> >> driving. After
> >> > >searching for an 8 or 12 passenger new or used
> >> van for 3 months I
> >> > >almost gave up.
> >> > >
> >> > >I tried Enterprise Used Car sales on the
> >> internet.
> >> > >They had eight 15 passenger 2001 vans! They
> >> were a year old, from car
> >> > pools,
> >> > >with about 20,000 miles on them. When I took
> >> out the 3 rear seats I can
> >> > carry
> >> >
> >> > Your point is?
> >> > I have an EV (a Sparrow). I have a car for long
> >> trips. I have a
> >> > Pickup truck for big loads.
> >> > I'd LIKE to have a Electric Pickup truck.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > John G. Lussmyer
> >> >
> >>
> > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> >> >
> >>
> > http://www.CasaDelGato.com<http://www.casadelgato.com/>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4
> >> lines of legalistic
> >> junk at the end; then you are specifically
> >> authorizing me to do whatever I
> >> wish with the message. By posting the message you
> >> agree that your long
> >> legalistic signature is void.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> > Be a PS3 game guru.
> > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at
Yahoo!
> > Games.
> > http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of
legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
--- End Message ---
